The OFFICIAL Liverpool FC thread - #DankeJürgen

[J70]

He prob will but Liverpool do seem to be playing better without him. His best football seems to be behind him. Looking forward to seeing if Kenny can keep this going into next season. That is when the real test will be.

I think that is the key point Liverpool are playing like a team without expectation and without pressure, that will all change next season. Personally I think their squad is too shallow for any sustained EPL challenge but will be close to top 4 next season.

Unlike this year when they are currently ...ehmmm....5th?  If thon bollix had been roaded a month earlier the club would be in the top 4 now and of that I have no doubt.  They will not win the PL next year but there is only one direction they are going and that is up!

The foundation for their 5th place possible finish was on a run of games when fan and media expectation was at an all time low, as already exhibited by your good self Liverpool won't have those low expectations next season. Different season different pressure.

We'll see next season. A lot of opposition fans do seem to be VERY keen to dismiss Liverpool's recent form under Dalglish as being merely a product of playing without pressure with nothing on the line!
Seems a bit simplistic to me. The replacement of the sulking, off-form Torres with Suarez has been a huge factor, as has, obviously, the arrival of Dalglish and Clark, with the resulting change in tactics, and the fact that quite a few players are now playing for their futures. I don't think you can explain the performances against both Manchester teams, Birmingham, Newcastle, Fulham etc. over the past two months with the mere fact that there's nothing at stake!

[Dinny Breen]

So easy to forget why I call Liverpool fans delusionists 

Professional sport in the modern world media is all about winning and only winning hence every loss is a catastrophe of epic proportions. Once Liverpool moved away from the relegation zone they no were no longer a story, they were just a small sub plot in where a legend had returned made one astute signing, appointed a good coach and instilled some confidence and the club as a whole started moving forwards. This was all done in a pressure free environment where individual errors were not blown up to be season defining, critically Liverpool's only pressure game was in the Europa League, remind me how that went again? Also how will Daglish stand up to the scrutiny of his team selections, tactics etc that Rafa and Woy had to withstand, he did walk away before and the pressure these days is a lot higher.

But I'm just preaching caution, if Daglish can reign in expectations for next season, the team recover quickly from their blips, adds a little bit more quality well then they have a great chance of top 4.  But that is the beauty of sport, no one really knows whats going to happen.

[GalwayBayBoy]

He prob will but Liverpool do seem to be playing better without him. His best football seems to be behind him. Looking forward to seeing if Kenny can keep this going into next season. That is when the real test will be.

I think that is the key point Liverpool are playing like a team without expectation and without pressure, that will all change next season. Personally I think their squad is too shallow for any sustained EPL challenge but will be close to top 4 next season.

You'd certainly hope so. They are close to top 4 right now and that's having had an utter nightmare first half of the season under Hodgson.

By the way a lack of pressure or otherwise has very little to do with their upsurge in form. More to do with the confidence Dalglish has brought to the club, some good old-fashioned coaching from the likes of Steve Clarke and the addition of a player like Suarez replacing a striker who wasn't really bothered anymore. Kenny is not exactly some novice to the management game. I'm sure he can take a bit of criticism as he usually just gives it back. Not sure him leaving the first time is relevant really. That came in the aftermath of Hillsborough which Dalglish himself admitted took a terrible personal toll on him. He just needed to be away from the game for a while.

Anyway it looks like Liverpool are going to be busy in the transfer market this Summer so really need to see who comes and who goes before we see where they stand for next season.

[J70]

So easy to forget why I call Liverpool fans delusionists 

Professional sport in the modern world media is all about winning and only winning hence every loss is a catastrophe of epic proportions. Once Liverpool moved away from the relegation zone they no were no longer a story, they were just a small sub plot in where a legend had returned made one astute signing, appointed a good coach and instilled some confidence and the club as a whole started moving forwards. This was all done in a pressure free environment where individual errors were not blown up to be season defining, critically Liverpool's only pressure game was in the Europa League, remind me how that went again? Also how will Daglish stand up to the scrutiny of his team selections, tactics etc that Rafa and Woy had to withstand, he did walk away before and the pressure these days is a lot higher.

But I'm just preaching caution, if Daglish can reign in expectations for next season, the team recover quickly from their blips, adds a little bit more quality well then they have a great chance of top 4.  But that is the beauty of sport, no one really knows whats going to happen.

I'm all for caution and I am predicting nothing regarding next season. I've been through far, far too many false dawns over many years as a Liverpool and Donegal supporter! Your points are valid. Let's see how the summer and the start of next season goes first. But only the most bitter and twisted rival fan would fault Liverpool fans for being optimistic about the future given where the club was just over six months ago. And just to be crystal clear, optimistic DOES NOT mean hopeless delusions and certainty of winning the title next year. My point is just that there appears to be a "consensus" growing among rival fans that Liverpool's form under Dalglish CAN ONLY be explained by the lack of pressure (whether its serious or just a meme being seized upon to downplay Liverpool's recent form, I'm not sure - probably both).

As for Dalglish walking away, I don't know remember why he left Blackburn, but he was sacked at Newcastle and just cracked up after Hillsborough. Any faulting him for leaving Liverpool should remember that he was still quite a young man, and had gone straight from playing into managing what was, at the time, the leading club in Europe, right in the middle of the Heysel disgrace/tragedy. He handled quite a lot in those six years first time around. I do not see how anyone could claim the pressure is now higher than what he dealt with then as a man in his mid- to late-30s. I would indeed question how many men could handle what he did. And its also never mentioned how he was ready to rejoin Liverpool later in 1991, but by that stage they had appointed Souness and it was too late. But regardless, fairly or not, he has a lot to prove to many people after all these years out and his ill-fated time at Newcastle (and Celtic, if that counts given his role there).

[ONeill]

The Liverpool thread must have the best soccer analysts on it. It's a great read.

[brokencrossbar1]

The Liverpool thread must have the best soccer analysts on it. It's a great read.

We are the most knowledgeable fans on the game;)

[nifan]

We are the most knowledgeable fans on the game;)

Does my head in when commentators on telly trot out that crap about teams "most knowledgeable fans" and "they know their football at goodison park" sort of stuff.

Id like to hear them once at a game say "its very well known that the man city fans havent the first notion about football, they are clueless"

[Capt Pat]

There is a lot of bandwagon fans and Japnese tourists at the Chelsea and ManU games. You get more of tye real die hard and knowledgeable football fans at the lesser teams.

[Dinny Breen]

As for Dalglish walking away, I don't know remember why he left Blackburn, but he was sacked at Newcastle and just cracked up after Hillsborough. Any faulting him for leaving Liverpool should remember that he was still quite a young man, and had gone straight from playing into managing what was, at the time, the leading club in Europe, right in the middle of the Heysel disgrace/tragedy. He handled quite a lot in those six years first time around. I do not see how anyone could claim the pressure is now higher than what he dealt with then as a man in his mid- to late-30s. I would indeed question how many men could handle what he did. And its also never mentioned how he was ready to rejoin Liverpool later in 1991, but by that stage they had appointed Souness and it was too late. But regardless, fairly or not, he has a lot to prove to many people after all these years out and his ill-fated time at Newcastle (and Celtic, if that counts given his role there).

No man should fault him and I certainly don't, the point I was making was that Daglish is his own man, always has been and always will be. The footballing managerial landscape has changed so much in that the chairmen and media in particular are whimsical and set ridiculously high benchmarks. Liverpool next season it will Top 4, nothing less and ignoring the claims of Arsenal, Spurs and Man City. If this target is achieved it will be EPL winners the following season. In the modern media failure to reach those targets will be considered an epic failure as a million blogs are spawned claiming Liverpool are a club in crisis. No one knows how after a couple of defeats Daglish will react to his squad rotation policies, his zonal marking preferences, his substitutions everything comes under the micro-scope. How he reacts to that and more importantly how the Liverpool board respond to that, Rafa cracked, Roy cracked, Liverpool is the 2nd biggest managerial job in England Daglish might be the man but judgment should be reserved...

[AZOffaly]

Dinny, you're right to preach caution. I remember Liverpool having similar results at the fag end of other seasons too, and it being hailed as the dawn of a new era. Unfortunately the era typically lasted until November of the following season. There's a pile more work to be done at Liverpool, and additions to the squad have to be made. Also the stadium has to be sorted out one way or another (I'm hopeful FSG will redevelop Anfield).

There are however, a couple of reasons, I am hopeful (and hopeful is all it is) about the future of Liverpool football club.

The first is obviously the most important piece of business done this year. I'm not talking about Kenny, Torres, Suarez, Carroll or anything on the playing side. It's the removal of the ticks that had burrowed under the skin and were sucking the club dry.

The second is the fact that almost immediately since Dalglish took over, the players have been immeasurably more keen, and are playing with a smile on their face, helped by Dalglish's own demeanour on the line, which is a breath of fresh air for Liverpool. Whether that will last if Liverpool get into the thick of a championship chase is a valid question, but I suspect that Dalglish has seen enough to know that Shankley's remark was tongue in cheek, and he is a strong enough character to spread that throughout the club.

Third is the arrival of Steve Clarke. I feel himself and Dalglish together are proving to be a good partnership, and with Clarke on the coaching side, and Dalglish's approach to the game, Liverpool's style of play has been reinvigorated. The are getting back to pass and move, pass and move. Lads like Carragher are still inclined to launch the 50 yard ball every now and then, but it's getting to the point where that sort of thing is noticeable, rather than being the norm as it was under Benitez and to a lesser extent Hodgson. It's important, I feel, that Liverpool's players are coached into continuing the pass and move style, even when the likes of Carroll come back. A good move, with passing to get the ball into dangerous areas, followed by a good cross is going to get more out of a Carroll, Suarez partnership than the easy option which is the 60 yard hoof hoping for a knockdown from the 'big man'. That would be a concern of mine, but I trust Dalglish and Clarke to not let that happen. I was also encouraged at the way he (Dalglish) had a go at Shelvey yesterday for an aimless ball down the pitch at 4-1 up. That's coaching the right thing, all the time.

Another reason I am a little more encouraged is the fact that Dalglish was/is closer to the acadamy, and has obviously decided to give youth it's head to see what they are made of. This is a great development, and much like Wenger at Arsenal, and Ferguson at United, if you can blood even 3 or 4 young lads that can become at the very least solid squad players, who understand the system of play, then it frees up more money for the real difference making signings, as opposed to 3-6 million quid signings for average squad players on big wages. I'm hopeful that the likes of Flanagan, Kelly, Spearing, Shelvey and Robinson and the like will all benefit hugely from their sustained exposure to premiership and European action, and there are other young lads that will hopefully get a run during pre-season and the lesser competitions next year.

The acadamy can't be producing Owens, McManamans, Fowlers and Gerrards all the time, but if it produces a consistent stream of first team capable players, then you have a solid basis to build from.


So, in summary, I think it's unquestionable that Liverpool are in a far stronger position on and off the field in May 2011 than they were in May 2010. Of course we are still looking up at the likes of City, Arsenal, Chelsea and United, but maybe, just maybe the beast is beginning to stir, and maybe we can beat the 28 year drought that United had by a couple of years, but we'll probably need Arsenal or Chelsea to stop them going too far ahead of us

[imtommygunn]

We are the most knowledgeable fans on the game;)

Does my head in when commentators on telly trot out that crap about teams "most knowledgeable fans" and "they know their football at goodison park" sort of stuff.

Id like to hear them once at a game say "its very well known that the man city fans havent the first notion about football, they are clueless"

It's a generalisation in a lot of cases but to be honest with you it is very very rare I have met a Man United fan who knows anything about football. I reckon I've met ~5 in my life.

I don't support Liverpool but their fans are definitely a lot more knowledgable. I think it's a human nature / jump on bandwagon thing...

You only have to read a few punters on the man united thread here to see how little some know about football...

(No I don't support Liverpool!)

[AZOffaly]

We are the most knowledgeable fans on the game;)

Does my head in when commentators on telly trot out that crap about teams "most knowledgeable fans" and "they know their football at goodison park" sort of stuff.

Id like to hear them once at a game say "its very well known that the man city fans havent the first notion about football, they are clueless"

It's a generalisation in a lot of cases but to be honest with you it is very very rare I have met a Man United fan who knows anything about football. I reckon I've met ~5 in my life.

I don't support Liverpool but their fans are definitely a lot more knowledgable. I think it's a human nature / jump on bandwagon thing...

You only have to read a few punters on the man united thread here to see how little some know about football...

(No I don't support Liverpool!)

In fairness, that's harsh. There's a lot of United fans who know a lot about soccer, but maybe they are more loyal to their manager than most other fans, and that's understandable. Sometimes that leads to fans having to defend some of Fergies more outrageous comments, but sure that's part of sticking by the man that has brought them so much success.

There's quite a lot of fans of every team that haven't a clue, in my opinion, but I don't think United have any less that know their stuff. They have more of every sort of fan than most clubs, so maybe there's more eejits as well.

[brokencrossbar1]

A Man City win or draw tonite makes saturdays game a shit or bust one for Spuds. It would be nice going into the last game of the season the week after that with Europe qualification confirmed so obviously a win on Saturday is vital. It will be amazing if Liverpool do get 5th. At the lowest point on 16th Jan the clib was 13th and Spurs were 5th. Since then this is the run of form

Played W. D. L. GD.  Pts.
Spurs  13    4   7  2  +1   19
Us       14  10   2  2 +22  32

Sould Citeh win tonight and we win at the weekend this is the sort of form that teams fighting relegation would have. 7 draws is mid table mediocrity,  people generally do find their level in life though.

[Two Hands FFS]

Great Post AZ

If you ask the majority of Liverpool supporters they are just glad to enjoy watching their team again. I'd say the sensible ones out there don't expect Liverpool to win the league next season but to challenge for a top 4 place next season. Surely this isn't too optimistic?? Alot of people took alot of joy in Liverpool being in the bottom 3 earlier this season so why shouldnt Liverpool supporters enjoy the football in the last couple of weeks. Especially considering where the club was in November and after the Wolves/ Blackburn defeats.

[From the Bunker]

There is a lot of bandwagon fans and Japnese tourists at the Chelsea and ManU games. You get more of tye real die hard and knowledgeable football fans at the lesser teams.

Yeah, have to agree with the above statement. Fans of Arsenal, Utd, Pool, (more recently) Man City and Chelski, look at the Big picture all the time. Smaller clubs have a more localised fanbase. They appreciate an away draw, a good performance despite a loss, they know more about the lesser players in the league.

I have a friend who grew up a Liverpool fan. He moved to London in the early 90's and started (Ironically) supporting QPR. He found; the family athmosphere, prices, knowledge of game and passion unbelievably brilliant.