It Must be Marching Season

[gallsman]

Trying to post a pie chart and cant

If you go Arnold cartons twitter the chart he has shows everyone all they need to know about parading in the north.

https://irishunionist.substack.com/p/acknowledging-tolerance

This is excellent.

[Armamike]

Always found Lowry very hard to listen to.  He takes a hardline unionist position and doesn't deviate much from this whatever the situation. McBride is different.

[podge]

I don't think anyone could criticise any of the elected politicians from the Nationalist for standing with the residents on this.  As someone pointed out, not to do so could have been electoral suicide.

That said ( and I appreciate I say this totally with the benefit of hindsight and how the DUP are using it against the elected representatives), perhaps they could have done it a more strategic way that didn't leave them exposed e.g stand on the pavement rather than on the road

I also wish the commentators would challenge this narrative that '35 elderly men pose no threat'...  of course they don't as individuals pose any actual physical threat, but that is not what it's about.  It's a totally irrelevant comment made by those trying to sound reasonable and grab the moral high ground FFS

[DaleCooper]

Incredible stats from that blog

"So, in a country with less than half its citizens being Protestant we have roughly
2.5 thousand unionist parades every year"

"96 Nationalist Parades vs 2507 Unionist Parades"


If youd ask me to guess would never have been remotely close. Shows we are being over tolerant. They need to reduce the number in line with nationalist parades....

[GTP]

The below is an assessment by the police in a previous rejected case. I can't find the exact determination but I believe it's within the last two years.

"The police noted that the route can be deemed as sensitive and therefore have consequences on both the local community and further afield. They also noted that, since it was notified, local engagement and feedback from the community indicates that there is significant opposition to the parade. Regarding the plans that they would implement to ensure that the parade passes off peacefully, a large policing operation at short notice would be needed to facilitate the parade along the notified route. It was also noted that there is concern that supporters and those in opposition to the parade will assemble in the area, with this having the potential for disorder. To facilitate the parade along the notified route and the likely attendance of a large number of supporters from both communities could have a detrimental impact on community relations, the local community and further afield, with the potential for Portadown to once more become a focal point for disorder that could spread to other areas"

And then this is the accepted determination for sundays parade

"The police made both written and oral submissions, indicating that they, at the time of making them, had no information indicating that the parade would result in disorder or violence. They are planning for all reasonably likely scenarios, both known and unknown, in accordance with their legal obligations and the applicable policies and procedures. Their assessments will be updated on a continuous basis. Meetings have been held with the organiser, residents and political parties and local police are engaging with the community. They were unable to indicate the size and profile of the police deployment for the parade, as it would depend on the situation as it was at the time. The police stated that they would provide sufficient resources to police any parade that takes place, whether subject to conditions or not, and also any protest activity that may occur"

I may be too literal, but when I first read the determination from the PC 'would result in disorder' struck me as being quite definitive. The first quote from the rejected determination indicates that 'potential for disorder' was sufficient reason to reject a parade. The latest determination may show the PC have shifted the goalposts, the PSNI used different language in their assessment for this parade, or the wrong question was asked and answered.
I cannot see how any public representative particularly in the PSNI could say that a parade would result in disorder. No one could argue this parade has the potential for disorder but equally we cannot say it would result in disorder if it went through. I would be inclined to believe the PC have made a decision they wouldn't previously have made given the pressure they had been put under and brought upon themselves, than the PSNI assessing this parade differently.

[Rossfan]

You're last sentence sums it up.

From a newspaper -
"John McCandless travelled from near Downpatrick to be at the protest today on the Garvaghy Road.
 He said "I'm a Protestant and other people from my community don't think this is right - the Orangemen can express their beliefs but it's not necessary to force a march down this road."

[johnnycool]

Incredible stats from that blog

"So, in a country with less than half its citizens being Protestant we have roughly
2.5 thousand unionist parades every year"

"96 Nationalist Parades vs 2507 Unionist Parades"


If youd ask me to guess would never have been remotely close. Shows we are being over tolerant. They need to reduce the number in line with nationalist parades....

Very tolerant of an organisation that thinks Catholics worship the anti-christ.

[quit yo jibbajabba]

Jesus they love an oul march. Not being disrespecting of their culture I genuinely can't understand it. Once or twice a year maybe but jees there has to be some saddos at it every other week.

What you do this weekend, go watch the soccer? No I walked down a road playing me flute. Again. Twas class

[DaleCooper]

The entire POINT is to antagonise.

If it a was 100% PUL state they would be having a handful. Theyre constantly looking around to see whos watching.

Nationalists are far too soft with these cretins. Much of it a legacy of the GFA fudge.

[RadioGAAGAA]

And then this is the accepted determination for sundays parade

"The police made both written and oral submissions, indicating that they, at the time of making them, had no information indicating that the parade would result in disorder or violence. They are planning for all reasonably likely scenarios, both known and unknown, in accordance with their legal obligations and the applicable policies and procedures. Their assessments will be updated on a continuous basis. Meetings have been held with the organiser, residents and political parties and local police are engaging with the community. They were unable to indicate the size and profile of the police deployment for the parade, as it would depend on the situation as it was at the time. The police stated that they would provide sufficient resources to police any parade that takes place, whether subject to conditions or not, and also any protest activity that may occur"

That is likely the problem right there.

Its implying the police would have required knowledge of a specific chain of events that would have led to disorder.

Which they intrinsically had no way of knowing.


If they had been asked "is it highly likely to lead to disorder?" the answer would have been yes.
But they were asked "would it result in disorder?" without any ability to definitively answer any questions around "how". Which of course would have left them open to challenge by bin-lid etc.


Pretty poor form of whoever asked the question for leading it and pretty poor by the police who answered it for not framing their statement so it was clear it would "highly likely to lead to disorder".

[AustinPowers]

Jesus they love an oul march. Not being disrespecting of their culture I genuinely can't understand it. Once or twice a year maybe but jees there has to be some saddos at it every other week.

What you do this weekend, go watch the soccer? No I walked down a road playing me flute. Again. Twas class

Give this man an  award. Best post I've read yet 

2500 v 96 sums up the  triumphalist mentality of unionism. It's in their DNA. Continually tr**p  over Catholics. We are the people.

St Patrick's day, let's  carry a banner and sing a hymn through a loyalist area where we're  not wanted. Why the f**k would you  want to?   Nationalists aren't bred that way..  Unionists really do have a whole different mentality.

As you say jibba,  go and get  a bloody  hobby. Take up fishing, knitting,  cooking, etc. nah let's show those Catholics who's boss again, for the  10,000th time. Such a sad existence

[Armagh18]

Jesus they love an oul march. Not being disrespecting of their culture I genuinely can't understand it. Once or twice a year maybe but jees there has to be some saddos at it every other week.

What you do this weekend, go watch the soccer? No I walked down a road playing me flute. Again. Twas class

Give this man an  award. Best post I've read yet 

2500 v 96 sums up the  triumphalist mentality of unionism. It's in their DNA. Continually tr**p  over Catholics. We are the people.

St Patrick's day, let's  carry a banner and sing a hymn through a loyalist area where we're  not wanted. Why the f**k would you  want to?   Nationalists aren't bred that way..  Unionists really do have a whole different mentality.

As you say jibba,  go and get  a bloody  hobby. Take up fishing, knitting,  cooking, etc. nah let's show those Catholics who's boss again, for the  10,000th time. Such a sad existence

Yep very well said.

Would the likes of St Patricks day parades be part of that 96?

[trueblue1234]

Surely there has to be some legal issue with the OO. Can they not start to go after the root of the problem. Is there not some legal challenge regarding hate speech etc that could be used. The PSNI are keen to uphold the law about the protest, so surely there is something that could be brought to court about the organisation itself. I would never have been in favour of that sort of thing previously, but now. Time to throw baby out with the bathwater and go at them properly.

[Armagh18]

Surely there has to be some legal issue with the OO. Can they not start to go after the root of the problem. Is there not some legal challenge regarding hate speech etc that could be used. The PSNI are keen to uphold the law about the protest, so surely there is something that could be brought to court about the organisation itself. I would never have been in favour of that sort of thing previously, but now. Time to throw baby out with the bathwater and go at them properly.

They wouldn't be allowed to exist in a normal society. The equivalent of the KKK.

[Rossfan]

Average of 7 parades a day.....