The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Banks of the Bann]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

The reason there hasn't been a diplomatic solution is because Russia's goal of their war is the destruction of Ukraine. Either now or in the future.

Ukrainians know this which is why they are resisting a ceasefire now without security guarantees against Russia for the future.

They know it and yourself and others like you that have never set foot near the place think you know better.

Tell us all what 'compromises' Ukraine need to make that isn't appeasement of Russia?

Tell us your proposals to ensure Russia doesn't break any agreement again? What security guarantees would you give Ukraine?

[balladmaker]

On the day the Epstein files were supposed to be released, the Oval Office dust up fills the news cycle ... hmmm

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvee9rpdq6o

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

The reason there hasn't been a diplomatic solution is because Russia's goal of their war is the destruction of Ukraine. Either now or in the future.

Ukrainians know this which is why they are resisting a ceasefire now without security guarantees against Russia for the future.

They know it and yourself and others like you that have never set foot near the place think you know better.

Tell us all what 'compromises' Ukraine need to make that isn't appeasement of Russia?

Tell us your proposals to ensure Russia doesn't break any agreement again? What security guarantees would you give Ukraine?

They are questions for Ukrainians. I am not telling them what to do!!!

I'm just posting my opinions on a gaa forum.

I dont believe there have been much efforts for a diplomatic solution as all efforts by ukraine it to get more arms  to defeat Russia but that hasn't happened as US and Europe seems happy to let a semi stalemate continue with huge loss of life.

[Banks of the Bann]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

The reason there hasn't been a diplomatic solution is because Russia's goal of their war is the destruction of Ukraine. Either now or in the future.

Ukrainians know this which is why they are resisting a ceasefire now without security guarantees against Russia for the future.

They know it and yourself and others like you that have never set foot near the place think you know better.

Tell us all what 'compromises' Ukraine need to make that isn't appeasement of Russia?

Tell us your proposals to ensure Russia doesn't break any agreement again? What security guarantees would you give Ukraine?

They are questions for Ukrainians. I am not telling them what to do!!!

I'm just posting my opinions on a gaa forum.

I dont believe there have been much efforts for a diplomatic solution as all efforts by ukraine it to get more arms  to defeat Russia but that hasn't happened as US and Europe seems happy to let a semi stalemate continue with huge loss of life.

And your opinion is there should be a diplomatic solution but you don't have a clue where you would even start. Got it.

Leave it up to the Ukrainians to pull something out of thin air that doesn't exist and which Russia would break in the future anyway.

It's why Ukraine refuses any fake peace proposals that don't involve security guarantees. Because they won't bring peace.

Edit: it's no coincidence that Trumps plan for peace involves Ukrainian surrender and giving Russia all they want. That's the only 'diplomatic' solution to this war when you're negotiating with Russia.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

The reason there hasn't been a diplomatic solution is because Russia's goal of their war is the destruction of Ukraine. Either now or in the future.

Ukrainians know this which is why they are resisting a ceasefire now without security guarantees against Russia for the future.

They know it and yourself and others like you that have never set foot near the place think you know better.

Tell us all what 'compromises' Ukraine need to make that isn't appeasement of Russia?

Tell us your proposals to ensure Russia doesn't break any agreement again? What security guarantees would you give Ukraine?

They are questions for Ukrainians. I am not telling them what to do!!!

I'm just posting my opinions on a gaa forum.

I dont believe there have been much efforts for a diplomatic solution as all efforts by ukraine it to get more arms  to defeat Russia but that hasn't happened as US and Europe seems happy to let a semi stalemate continue with huge loss of life.

And your opinion is there should be a diplomatic solution but you don't have a clue where you would even start. Got it.

Leave it up to the Ukrainians to pull something out of thin air that doesn't exist and which Russia would break in the future anyway.

It's why Ukraine refuses any fake peace proposals that don't involve security guarantees. Because they won't bring peace.

Edit: it's no coincidence that Trumps plan for peace involves Ukrainian surrender and giving Russia all they want. That's the only 'diplomatic' solution to this war when you're negotiating with Russia.

I dont have a solution for Palestine or other conflicts/genocides/wars etc. either, it's doesn't mean it shouldn't be the solution. it is up to ukraines/Palestinians etc. to decide.

What's your solution?

[Wildweasel74]

Before WW2 started Germany and Russia made a neutrality pact. They also agreed to attack Poland at the same time. Look at that, and Russia land grab on Urkaine and USA miveral land grab. All looks vaguely familiar. Russia proved in the past they are untrustworthy and pacts count for nothing. It amazes me decent people in the USA are not up in arms about this. It should also be noted USA had no intention of entering WW2 until Japan attacked.

[Banks of the Bann]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

The reason there hasn't been a diplomatic solution is because Russia's goal of their war is the destruction of Ukraine. Either now or in the future.

Ukrainians know this which is why they are resisting a ceasefire now without security guarantees against Russia for the future.

They know it and yourself and others like you that have never set foot near the place think you know better.

Tell us all what 'compromises' Ukraine need to make that isn't appeasement of Russia?

Tell us your proposals to ensure Russia doesn't break any agreement again? What security guarantees would you give Ukraine?

They are questions for Ukrainians. I am not telling them what to do!!!

I'm just posting my opinions on a gaa forum.

I dont believe there have been much efforts for a diplomatic solution as all efforts by ukraine it to get more arms  to defeat Russia but that hasn't happened as US and Europe seems happy to let a semi stalemate continue with huge loss of life.

And your opinion is there should be a diplomatic solution but you don't have a clue where you would even start. Got it.

Leave it up to the Ukrainians to pull something out of thin air that doesn't exist and which Russia would break in the future anyway.

It's why Ukraine refuses any fake peace proposals that don't involve security guarantees. Because they won't bring peace.

Edit: it's no coincidence that Trumps plan for peace involves Ukrainian surrender and giving Russia all they want. That's the only 'diplomatic' solution to this war when you're negotiating with Russia.

I dont have a solution for Palestine or other conflicts/genocides/wars etc. either, it's doesn't mean it shouldn't be the solution. it is up to ukraines/Palestinians etc. to decide.

What's your solution?

There should be zero concessions on Ukrainian territory made to Russia.

You talk about it being up to the Ukrainians - they have been clear and consistent on this very point. Again and again.

Zelenskyy has said he would allow the areas under Russian control to remain so for the time being but must be returned to Ukraine by diplomatic means in the future BUT only if Ukraine is given SUSTAINABLE security guarantees so that Russia can't relaunch. (They definitely will otherwise).

In the meantime, proper sanctions, more financial aid and ramp up the military support to Ukraine like never before so that they have the advantage on the battlefield.

There really is no alternative. 

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Jeez you know it's bad when even the DUP slam the behaviour. JD Vance being true to his Scots-Irish roots and acting the redneck hillbilly

[PadraicHenryPearse]

did I miss the peace talks, there were some in Switzerland, not involving the Russians and Russia had some with Trump without Ukrainians.

I think we both agree a diplomatic solution is best. But it should have been done 3 years ago or now,  more delays in finding a peaceful solution is just increasing the body count. more sanctions (I think 16 rounds so far), more aid (seems those providing it now want to cripple Ukrainian after the war ends by taking its resources) and more military support, gave f**k all that made ending the war a reality for 3 years so don't see that happening

[Banks of the Bann]

did I miss the peace talks, there were some in Switzerland, not involving the Russians and Russia had some with Trump without Ukrainians.

I think we both agree a diplomatic solution is best. But it should have been done 3 years ago or now,  more delays in finding a peaceful solution is just increasing the bidy coiubt. more sanctions (I think 12 rounds so far), more aid (seems those providing it now want to cripple Ukrainian after the war ends by taking its resources) and more military support, gave f**k all that made ending the war a reality for 3 years so don't see that happening

Zelenskyy went to Trump after the election and before he took office and outlined a plan to him.

There was no diplomatic peace possible 3 years ago. Russia's demands before the invasion were NATO rollback to 1997. Never happening and they knew that so they were intent on invasion at that stage.

Istanbul plan was just Ukrainian capitulation and leaving the entire country wide open for invasion in the future. Then we had the massacres come to light in Bucha. The idea that BJ torpedoed a deal is just ridiculous Russia propaganda.

You're all for listening to Ukraine/Palestinians etc. but you're still not listening. This thing you wish for was not possible. Because of Russia.

As for sanctions - they haven't been robust enough or enforced properly. You only have to look at EU exports to Kyrgyzstan going through the roof to know they are being circumvented. Europe just got a wake up call so maybe they'll finally get serious.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

did I miss the peace talks, there were some in Switzerland, not involving the Russians and Russia had some with Trump without Ukrainians.

I think we both agree a diplomatic solution is best. But it should have been done 3 years ago or now,  more delays in finding a peaceful solution is just increasing the bidy coiubt. more sanctions (I think 12 rounds so far), more aid (seems those providing it now want to cripple Ukrainian after the war ends by taking its resources) and more military support, gave f**k all that made ending the war a reality for 3 years so don't see that happening

Zelenskyy went to Trump after the election and before he took office and outlined a plan to him.

There was no diplomatic peace possible 3 years ago. Russia's demands before the invasion were NATO rollback to 1997. Never happening and they knew that so they were intent on invasion at that stage.

Istanbul plan was just Ukrainian capitulation and leaving the entire country wide open for invasion in the future. Then we had the massacres come to light in Bucha. The idea that BJ torpedoed a deal is just ridiculous Russia propaganda.

You're all for listening to Ukraine/Palestinians etc. but you're still not listening. This thing you wish for was not possible. Because of Russia.

As for sanctions - they haven't been robust enough or enforced properly. You only have to look at EU exports to Kyrgyzstan going through the roof to know they are being circumvented. Europe just got a wake up call so maybe they'll finally get serious.

Russia/Ukraine/Israeli/Palestine demands are just that, demands, in peace talks and diplomatic solutions it needs to be all mutually agreed and there is compromises made were agreeable (not appeasement).

I could be wrong on this but did Zelensky and Putin first have direct talks at the end of last year when it became clear Trump would win the election and that meant the US was going to screw over Ukraine more that it had being doing. (I know Putins rhetoric is not to talk but now the US is leaning red he probably will)

[gallsman]

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw

Have a f**king word with yourself. "Notwithstanding". That Russia invaded and should withdraw is the be all and end all.

You and skull are two peas in a pod. You couldn't give a flying f**k about human rights.

[trueblue1234]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

How could they deal with Russia when previous deals have been reneged on. It would just be a matter of time before Russia go again. And then more concessions. Serious question. How can you negotiate with a country that you don't trust to honour the details of the deal you end up with. You can't. And I think that's the position Ukraine are in.

how can you trust the yanks, the Israelis, the Europeans the russians after all they have done... I never said it was easy.  what does the defeat of Russia look like?

You can't trust the yanks. I never said you could. But at the same time they weren't invading your country, so it's an easy decision when it's either or. They don't need a full defeat of Russia. Removal from the territories they occupied would be enough.

[Banks of the Bann]

did I miss the peace talks, there were some in Switzerland, not involving the Russians and Russia had some with Trump without Ukrainians.

I think we both agree a diplomatic solution is best. But it should have been done 3 years ago or now,  more delays in finding a peaceful solution is just increasing the bidy coiubt. more sanctions (I think 12 rounds so far), more aid (seems those providing it now want to cripple Ukrainian after the war ends by taking its resources) and more military support, gave f**k all that made ending the war a reality for 3 years so don't see that happening

Zelenskyy went to Trump after the election and before he took office and outlined a plan to him.

There was no diplomatic peace possible 3 years ago. Russia's demands before the invasion were NATO rollback to 1997. Never happening and they knew that so they were intent on invasion at that stage.

Istanbul plan was just Ukrainian capitulation and leaving the entire country wide open for invasion in the future. Then we had the massacres come to light in Bucha. The idea that BJ torpedoed a deal is just ridiculous Russia propaganda.

You're all for listening to Ukraine/Palestinians etc. but you're still not listening. This thing you wish for was not possible. Because of Russia.

As for sanctions - they haven't been robust enough or enforced properly. You only have to look at EU exports to Kyrgyzstan going through the roof to know they are being circumvented. Europe just got a wake up call so maybe they'll finally get serious.

Russia/Ukraine/Israeli/Palestine demands are just that, demands, in peace talks and diplomatic solutions it needs to be all mutually agreed and there is compromises made were agreeable (not appeasement).

I could be wrong on this but did Zelensky and Putin first have direct talks at the end of last year when it became clear Trump would win the election and that meant the US was going to screw over Ukraine more that it had being doing. (I know Putins rhetoric is not to talk but now the US is leaning red he probably will)

There isn't a single concession that you could give to Russia that isn't appeasement.

I also don't know how many times it need to be said (it's exasperating) but Russia will not negotiate in good faith and it will break any agreement. That's why Ukraine is insisting on security guarantees.

You're also mistaken about Zelenskyy and Putin talks last year.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw

Have a f**king word with yourself. "Notwithstanding". That Russia invaded and should withdraw is the be all and end all.

You and skull are two peas in a pod. You couldn't give a flying f**k about human rights.

gallsman what is actually wrong with you? I am not and do not share the opinions of theskull only an imbecile would think that.

The point was made, because it is obvious, it should happen but won't. (if I didn't post it I'd be called a russian propagandist os some other stupid name) similarly Israel isn't going to abide but UN resolutions or internationa law, but it should but won't..  however, an agreeable diplomatic solution will and needs to be reached.