The Many Faces of US Politics...

[theskull1]

Resource rich Ukraine (a country renouned for its high levels of corruption) had choices.

Being too in bed with and allowing itself to be egged on by the West has been a tragedy for Ukraine and the lives of its people. Now the debt collectors who egged them on want paid. Plenty of money to be made by war... the bankers know this... they always win

[Banks of the Bann]

Resource rich Ukraine (a country renouned for its high levels of corruption) had choices.

Being too in bed with and allowing itself to be egged on by the West has been a tragedy for Ukraine and the lives of its people. Now the debt collectors who egged them on want paid. Plenty of money to be made by war... the bankers know this... they always win

Corruption exists in every country on the planet.

You talk about corruption in Ukraine, yet complain and spread conspiracy theories about a CIA-backed coup when ordinary Ukrainians in their hundreds of thousands protested for change against the most corrupt president their country had ever seen.

You talk about corruption in Ukraine but never mention corruption in Russia, which is ultimately corrupt.

Ukraine has made moves to tackle corruption. Ukraine would have had to tackle corruption before being admitted into the EU. Russia couldn't abide a less-corrupt, successful Ukraine on its doorstep. It might have made the locals start asking questions and getting restless.

Being next door to Russia is what has been a tragedy for Ukraine and its people, for centuries. (Sounds familiar). They have had zero choice but to fight Russia. That's the Russia you shill for you heartless jackal.

[trueblue1234]

Resource rich Ukraine (a country renouned for its high levels of corruption) had choices.

Being too in bed with and allowing itself to be egged on by the West has been a tragedy for Ukraine and the lives of its people. Now the debt collectors who egged them on want paid. Plenty of money to be made by war... the bankers know this... they always win

So just so we're all straight, what was your suggestion that Ukraine should have done, once the tanks rolled in?
No videos, just your opinion on what they should have done without support from the West?

[theskull1]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

[Banks of the Bann]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

They went to war... 

They were INVADED by Russia. War came to them. They didn't go anywhere. They either fight back or surrender. They fought back. That's your issue right there.

To see this as 'just another US proxy war' is to ignore the history of Ukraine and the history of Russian imperialism.

[Banks of the Bann]

It should be noted that Zelenskyy thanks Trump at the start of the meeting and again at around 7:30 mark only to be accused later by Vance of not saying thank you. But I suppose facts don't matter any more since in 2025 you can say any old shit that comes into your head and it's doesn't seem to matter anymore.

Speaking of which... did you explain yet where you got the figure of upwards on one million Ukrainian deaths yet Skull? Going to just pretend you didn't say it like you usually do?

[trueblue1234]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

So what did you recommend they do when they got invaded? Simple enough question. Your saying they should have ignored the offers of help. So talk me through the alternative options?

[gallsman]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

[jb77]

Unless we know the details of the initial peace deal there's no sure way to either criticise boris johnson for encouraging the continuation of the war or that ukraine f'd up by not taking it

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

[J70]

From John Cleese:

Trump's thinking is making me reconsider World War 2

All Britain had to do was to avoid that terrible was to surrender to Hitler

Why on earth didn't Churchill think of that?

Ironically, Trump had Churchill's bust sitting prominently right behind him.

[Banks of the Bann]

Unless we know the details of the initial peace deal there's no sure way to either criticise boris johnson for encouraging the continuation of the war or that ukraine f'd up by not taking it

The Istanbul peace negotiations were derailed by Russia's unacceptable demands, (i.e. the complete capitulation of Ukraine and leaving them completely open to further Russian aggression) and the discovery of the Russian atrocities at Bucha.

Zelenskyy has stood up to Putin, is standing up to Trump, but Russian propaganda tells you to believe that Boris f**king Johnson went to Kyiv and called the shots. Wise up.

[trueblue1234]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

How could they deal with Russia when previous deals have been reneged on. It would just be a matter of time before Russia go again. And then more concessions. Serious question. How can you negotiate with a country that you don't trust to honour the details of the deal you end up with. You can't. And I think that's the position Ukraine are in.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

How could they deal with Russia when previous deals have been reneged on. It would just be a matter of time before Russia go again. And then more concessions. Serious question. How can you negotiate with a country that you don't trust to honour the details of the deal you end up with. You can't. And I think that's the position Ukraine are in.

how can you trust the yanks, the Israelis, the Europeans the russians after all they have done... I never said it was easy.  what does the defeat of Russia look like?

[Banks of the Bann]

Look .....
They went to war with Americas assurances
They went to war with American money
They went to war with American weapons
They were egged on the whole way by outside forces

Not sure why so many of youse cannot at the very least understand why many many people view this conflict as just another a US proxy war.

Once again, "they went to war" just like the Palestinians?

Palestinans had American assurances, money and weapons??

when posters aren't responding to theskull, they have said American abs Europe have failed to provide the necessary support to Ukraine and live up to their commitments.

IMO, notwithstanding Russia shouldn't have invaded and should withdraw, either Europe and American provide the necessary support to defeat Russia (not sure what that looks like In reality, is it beat then bact to borders, regime change, or an end to Russia as we know it???) or they find a diplomatic solution, that isn't appeasement but ultimately no one will be overly happy with but will save potentially hundreds of thousands of lives.

Again, I'm my opinion, which is consistent with my opinion in other conflicts is that it is best and was best to find a diplomatic peace solution.

to be clear, Ukraine has ever right to resist its occupation and should resist but after 3 years as I said unless Europe/USA provide required support and have a realistic end game, peace deal is best solution.

also to be clear, America and its leaders are only looking out for themselves and are never to be trusted to do the right thing.

The reason there hasn't been a diplomatic solution is because Russia's goal of their war is the destruction of Ukraine. Either now or in the future.

Ukrainians know this which is why they are resisting a ceasefire now without security guarantees against Russia for the future.

They know it and yourself and others like you that have never set foot near the place think you know better.

Tell us all what 'compromises' Ukraine need to make that isn't appeasement of Russia?

Tell us your proposals to ensure Russia doesn't break any agreement again? What security guarantees would you give Ukraine?