Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Evil Genius]

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/smaller-more-compact-casement-park-with-around-25000-capacity-a-better-fit-and-far-less-costly-event-expert-CEOPJEOU3VHK5EIAGBPNDT66S4/

There we go. Let's see if we can get the  £120m that's we assume is still available (and maybe get a bit more from UK Dublin or Stormont) and see what we can build for that.

Who needed the Euros in the first place, all it did was propel the estimated price X2.

Well said.

To which I would add the following. When The Maze was finally binned, the government decided that the then £144m budget should be reallocated to the three sports to build their own customised sports facility instead.

Ulster Rugby was granted £20m, to reflect both their reduced need (i.e. Ravenhill didn't need a great deal of work to make it suitable), but also due to the game's low participation rates compared with the other two sports.

The GAA was granted £62.5m to build a provincial stadium of their own design, to which they would add £15m of their own.

While it was agreed that Soccer should be treated equally to GAA, so we were granted £62.5m as well. To which the IFA decided to spend £26m rebulding Windsor, plus another £36.5m which would go towards "sub-regional" stadia. However, they were told that this second tranche would not be released until the three main stadia were completed.

Now we all know what happened with Casement - incompetence and hubris meant that even now, over a decade later, the ground is a wasteland, without even having seen the first shovel. Now I accept that we are where we are, and whoever was at fault, Casement should get an increase on the original sum, sincer the GAA certainly deserves a modern stadium, with Government help.

I don't know exactly how much this should cost, but something like £100m from Stormont, plus Dublin's €50m, plus their own £15m (=£160m) should be enough to build a functional and serviceable 32k stadium with an appropriate level of facilities.

But that leaves a further problem. The principle that Soccer and GAA should be treated equally was always part of the deal. Is there going to be an extra £38m allocated to us? Is there going to be a recognition that with construction inflation, the second tranche of £36.5m won't go nearly so far as it would have had we received it when we should?

Remember, whoever's fault it was, it certainly wasn't Soccer's, yet we are (effectively) being punished.

[Hectic]

The second tranche of soccer funding should rise with inflation as with the GAA share.

It was allocated based on need so those needs are still there but the cost is now greater.

[Evil Genius]

Puc would need a hell of a lot of cash thrown at it to bring it up to UEFA standards. The knocking down the old terracing and replacing it with identical terracing at great expense was absolute lunacy

Indeed.

In fact it would effectively have to be rebuilt completely, otherwise there is about as much chance of my back garden hosting Euro games as PUC!

And if anyone should wonder why I am so confident in stating this, then they only have to read UEFA's Tournament Requirements document for the last Euro's in 2024. It is 190 pages long, of which 98 pages refer to stadium provision:
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/Regulations/02/46/30/61/2463061_DOWNLOAD.pdf
(Sector 6, page 48 onwards)

That should shorten the winter for yiz 

Could you share it with the "Shove Casement..." Gary McAllister who seems to think Windsor Park was ever an option.

I've spoken to Gary. His view is that if it was ever seriously being considered that £200m? £300m? £400m? was available to be spent on Casement in order to help it host the Euro's, then even part of such a sum would actually allow Windsor to be rebuilt to 30k to a design that would satisfy UEFA.

And let's face it, that would be providing a custom-built soccer stadium for what is, after all, a soccer tournament, while the remainder* could make provision for Casement.


* - By way of comparison, Brentford built their own all-seater 17.5k stadium in London four years ago for a total of £82m, including the purchase of the land, which was by no means cheap. And they could have fitted in 20k seats, only they decided to include "premium/hospitality" seating which brings in more money overall. When you consider that Gaelic games prefer to have terraced standing sections (not permitted in the Premier League), it must be entirely feasible that not much more than that could provide a perfectly adequate 32k capacity stadium in Andytown, where the GAA already owns the site:
https://footballgroundguide.com/leagues/england/championship/lionel-road-brentford.html

[illdecide]

Windsor was never mentioned once for a rebuild to bring it up to standard to host a Euro match until Casement came into the equation. The original fee's were worked out on the costs of refurbishment to the 3 stadiums based on size and need, there are larger attendances at GAA club matches than Irish League games and dare i say it some NI games. Windsor installed mixed colour seating so that it gives the impression that there are more at the game that actually went through the turnstiles and people are looking to make it bigger...

GAA stadia is 1/3 larger than soccer stadiums due to the obvious and hence will cost more to construct, close your eyes and visualise this stadium in East Belfast and using an oval ball. A Rugby World Cup is on the horizon and  matches are fixed for Ireland, the scheme would have been completed by now and never another word about it no matter of the cost. The fact remains...Casement is in West Belfast and is played mainly by Nationalist/Catholic population, the Unionist community celebrated the refusal of funding from the UK Government like they'd won the Euro's...That alone says it  all.

The Maze was never an option because the other 2 sports would not share the ground with the GAA for a reason I can't think off . The M1 and a rail track both run close by and would easily have been linked up with a 15 min drive from Belfast and 5 mins from Lisburn

[general_lee]

Remember, whoever's fault it was, it certainly wasn't Soccer's, yet we are (effectively) being punished.

Yes, let's remember that when NI could have had a shared stadium built sitting ready to go a decade + ago, poor old "Soccer" didn't want to leave Windsor.

A Casement refurbishment was never on the cards until political Unionism along with the soccer crowd chose to continue pumping public money into Linfield FC.

So absolutely it is Soccer's fault.

[NAG1]

At the end of the day the GAA didn't put Casement into a Euros bid, the British Government did. So the additional costs associated with being compliant with UEFA tournament specs were supposed to be covered within that. The BG have once again gone back on their word, no one here is surprised.

At the end of the day it simply boils down to the postcode. Can dress it up whatever way you like but that's the sad reality of it, just look at the vox pops BBC did at a recent soccer match.

Windsor had its chance and they weren't ambitious enough some would say and are left in limbo that they have a big stadium to run but not big enough.

You usually get one go at these and Casement should be an ambitious project and it should be future proofed as a multi event stadium.

[johnnycool]

At the end of the day the GAA didn't put Casement into a Euros bid, the British Government did. So the additional costs associated with being compliant with UEFA tournament specs were supposed to be covered within that. The BG have once again gone back on their word, no one here is surprised.

At the end of the day it simply boils down to the postcode. Can dress it up whatever way you like but that's the sad reality of it, just look at the vox pops BBC did at a recent soccer match.

Windsor had its chance and they weren't ambitious enough some would say and are left in limbo that they have a big stadium to run but not big enough.

You usually get one go at these and Casement should be an ambitious project and it should be future proofed as a multi event stadium.

The IFA handed all their dough over to Linfield, they don't own Windsor and never will, plus I believe Linfield get over 50% of all matchday revenue generated at an International game. No wonder Crusaders kicked up a stink at the time.

CHH knew he wouldn't be around when he give the commitment that funding would be found. Never trust the Brits, perfidious Albion and all that.

The sooner political unionism realises that no one in GB gives a flying fúck for them the better, but their too busy chasing after peerages and wee baubles to care.

[weareros]

Puc would need a hell of a lot of cash thrown at it to bring it up to UEFA standards. The knocking down the old terracing and replacing it with identical terracing at great expense was absolute lunacy

Indeed.

In fact it would effectively have to be rebuilt completely, otherwise there is about as much chance of my back garden hosting Euro games as PUC!

And if anyone should wonder why I am so confident in stating this, then they only have to read UEFA's Tournament Requirements document for the last Euro's in 2024. It is 190 pages long, of which 98 pages refer to stadium provision:
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/Regulations/02/46/30/61/2463061_DOWNLOAD.pdf
(Sector 6, page 48 onwards)

That should shorten the winter for yiz 

Could you share it with the "Shove Casement..." Gary McAllister who seems to think Windsor Park was ever an option.

I've spoken to Gary. His view is that if it was ever seriously being considered that £200m? £300m? £400m? was available to be spent on Casement in order to help it host the Euro's, then even part of such a sum would actually allow Windsor to be rebuilt to 30k to a design that would satisfy UEFA.

I appreciate you sharing his view (although I see he is the papers again today). To add I'd say Gary and the NI supporters were very vocal in their opposition to a stadium for all at the Maze. That eventually resulted in the money for the so called national stadium being split, and the IFA renovated Windsor Park to be a 18000 all-seater, which the fans said was all that was needed.

It's a bit rich for Gary to be saying give the money now to Windsor to make a new stadium that will seat 30,000 for a few additional reasons, beyond of the fact they were instrumental in scuppering one top class stadium for 3 major sports.

1) The GAA is starting off with over 100 million guaranteed (between their fair Stormont cut, the Irish government, and their own funds). The IFA have at a guess nothing. So it would have cost the British government more.
2) People like David Jeffrey complain that Windsor has no atmosphere for Linfield games. Linfield draw an average of 3,000 and N.Ire soccer team are not in need of bigger capacity.
3) There is very little opportunity to expand Windsor Park, as I am sure IFA know, because I did read a couple of years ago they did look into it. Planning permission would be difficult.
4) On top of that residents around Windsor have objected to Sunday football, so the religous rules interfering with soccer will be a problem for UEFA/FIFA, and indeed I read that Linfield still have No Sunday Football written into their rule book.

In summary, people like the NI supporters group with their chants of "Shove Casement Park Up Your H***" are the reason North will play no part in Euro 28. I hope that penny drops eventually but I doubt it will.

[johnnycool]

Puc would need a hell of a lot of cash thrown at it to bring it up to UEFA standards. The knocking down the old terracing and replacing it with identical terracing at great expense was absolute lunacy

Indeed.

In fact it would effectively have to be rebuilt completely, otherwise there is about as much chance of my back garden hosting Euro games as PUC!

And if anyone should wonder why I am so confident in stating this, then they only have to read UEFA's Tournament Requirements document for the last Euro's in 2024. It is 190 pages long, of which 98 pages refer to stadium provision:
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/Regulations/02/46/30/61/2463061_DOWNLOAD.pdf
(Sector 6, page 48 onwards)

That should shorten the winter for yiz 

Could you share it with the "Shove Casement..." Gary McAllister who seems to think Windsor Park was ever an option.

I've spoken to Gary. His view is that if it was ever seriously being considered that £200m? £300m? £400m? was available to be spent on Casement in order to help it host the Euro's, then even part of such a sum would actually allow Windsor to be rebuilt to 30k to a design that would satisfy UEFA.

I appreciate you sharing his view (although I see he is the papers again today). To add I'd say Gary and the NI supporters were very vocal in their opposition to a stadium for all at the Maze. That eventually resulted in the money for the so called national stadium being split, and the IFA renovated Windsor Park to be a 18000 all-seater, which the fans said was all that was needed.

It's a bit rich for Gary to be saying give the money now to Windsor to make a new stadium that will seat 30,000 for a few additional reasons, beyond of the fact they were instrumental in scuppering one top class stadium for 3 major sports.

1) The GAA is starting off with over 100 million guaranteed (between their fair Stormont cut, the Irish government, and their own funds). The IFA have at a guess nothing. So it would have cost the British government more.
2) People like David Jeffrey complain that Windsor has no atmosphere for Linfield games. Linfield draw an average of 3,000 and N.Ire soccer team are not in need of bigger capacity.
3) There is very little opportunity to expand Windsor Park, as I am sure IFA know, because I did read a couple of years ago they did look into it. Planning permission would be difficult.
4) On top of that residents around Windsor have objected to Sunday football, so the religous rules interfering with soccer will be a problem for UEFA/FIFA, and indeed I read that Linfield still have No Sunday Football written into their rule book.

In summary, people like the NI supporters group with their chants of "Shove Casement Park Up Your H***" are the reason North will play no part in Euro 28. I hope that penny drops eventually but I doubt it will.

It's called cutting your nose off to spite your face and unionism has it down to a tee at this stage.

As long as themmuns get nothing we don't care.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

They would rather eat grass. That was the famous line during the workers strike 50 yrs ago. The attitude hasn't changed. Absolute idiots they don't care how f£cked they are just as long as themmuns are even worse off

[Franko]

Puc would need a hell of a lot of cash thrown at it to bring it up to UEFA standards. The knocking down the old terracing and replacing it with identical terracing at great expense was absolute lunacy

Indeed.

In fact it would effectively have to be rebuilt completely, otherwise there is about as much chance of my back garden hosting Euro games as PUC!

And if anyone should wonder why I am so confident in stating this, then they only have to read UEFA's Tournament Requirements document for the last Euro's in 2024. It is 190 pages long, of which 98 pages refer to stadium provision:
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/OfficialDocument/uefaorg/Regulations/02/46/30/61/2463061_DOWNLOAD.pdf
(Sector 6, page 48 onwards)

That should shorten the winter for yiz 

Could you share it with the "Shove Casement..." Gary McAllister who seems to think Windsor Park was ever an option.

I've spoken to Gary. His view is that if it was ever seriously being considered that £200m? £300m? £400m? was available to be spent on Casement in order to help it host the Euro's, then even part of such a sum would actually allow Windsor to be rebuilt to 30k to a design that would satisfy UEFA.

And let's face it, that would be providing a custom-built soccer stadium for what is, after all, a soccer tournament, while the remainder* could make provision for Casement.


* - By way of comparison, Brentford built their own all-seater 17.5k stadium in London four years ago for a total of £82m, including the purchase of the land, which was by no means cheap. And they could have fitted in 20k seats, only they decided to include "premium/hospitality" seating which brings in more money overall. When you consider that Gaelic games prefer to have terraced standing sections (not permitted in the Premier League), it must be entirely feasible that not much more than that could provide a perfectly adequate 32k capacity stadium in Andytown, where the GAA already owns the site:
https://footballgroundguide.com/leagues/england/championship/lionel-road-brentford.html

At any time during this discussion did you point out to Gary how batshit crazy his "view" is?

[Rossfan]

I see Clones got a Government grant of €340k for floodlights.

[Main Street]

Windsor was never mentioned once for a rebuild to bring it up to standard to host a Euro match until Casement came into the equation. The original fee's were worked out on the costs of refurbishment to the 3 stadiums based on size and need, there are larger attendances at GAA club matches than Irish League games and dare i say it some NI games. Windsor installed mixed colour seating so that it gives the impression that there are more at the game that actually went through the turnstiles and people are looking to make it bigger...

GAA stadia is 1/3 larger than soccer stadiums due to the obvious and hence will cost more to construct, close your eyes and visualise this stadium in East Belfast and using an oval ball. A Rugby World Cup is on the horizon and  matches are fixed for Ireland, the scheme would have been completed by now and never another word about it no matter of the cost. The fact remains...Casement is in West Belfast and is played mainly by Nationalist/Catholic population, the Unionist community celebrated the refusal of funding from the UK Government like they'd won the Euro's...That alone says it  all.

The Maze was never an option because the other 2 sports would not share the ground with the GAA for a reason I can't think off . The M1 and a rail track both run close by and would easily have been linked up with a 15 min drive from Belfast and 5 mins from Lisburn

Essentially condescension and bigotry underlay all objections to the Maze project, masked by concerns about it being built in the sticks, lack of city centre atmosphere, GAA giant pitch size also being rated an atmosphere killer. Much natter about GAA connections with republicans. AFAIR I did not come across one positive comment about the proposed joint Maze project from any one in GAWA.
Does the 'rogering´ of the Casement plans put an end to any hopes that NI could particpate in the Euro's. apart from qualifying proper?

[marty34]

We can see the unionists panicking about the development of the Maze site now, especially with Long Kesh as part of it.

They are petrified of one the H Blocks being turned into a museum and bringing in thousands of tourists etc.

[AustinPowers]

I see Clones got a Government grant of €340k for floodlights.

Thousands of fans making their way  out of  the Clones  roads in the dark. That will end well.