Messages

[aftermath]

Also the soccer stadium shares the same name as the head of state of a country currently engaged in an illegal war...  While we're at it can we get local councils to re-name all the King William Parks and Queen Elizabeth Roads and Schomberg Gardens and Prince Andrew Ways across the North??  O'Connell Street should be renamed The Middle Way

And this has precisely what to do with Darren Graham and the GAA?
 

Just widening the stadia naming point a little bit...also this thread is about the aftermath of the Darren Graham affair...you should know, you started it

Also the soccer stadium shares the same name as the head of state of a country currently engaged in an illegal war...  While we're at it can we get local councils to re-name all the King William Parks and Queen Elizabeth Roads and Schomberg Gardens and Prince Andrew Ways across the North??  O'Connell Street should be renamed The Middle Way

While there has not been a huge number of Protestants in the GAA in recent years there probably were more Unionists than you think.  I can think of one county that was anchored at midfield for many years by a member of the Alliance party.

Surely the Alliance Party is neither Unionist nor Nationalist

Of course, another target market for the GAA to promote the games to!!  We really should be doing more to attract more neithers to the Association.  Croke Park is a cold house for neithers at the minute!!

While there has not been a huge number of Protestants in the GAA in recent years there probably were more Unionists than you think.  I can think of one county that was anchored at midfield for many years by a member of the Alliance party.

[Fermanagh Herald August 1st 2007]

Some intertesting views expressed by Colm Bradley on the Darren Graham affair.  Here's what he had to say in the Fermanagh Herald on 01/08/2007 in an article about the Dubs about off the ball stuff,sledging, goading, verbals etc:

Fermanagh Herald August 1st 2007

The poor misunderstood Dubs

Come on yiz boyz in blue, come on yiz boyz in blue, come on yiz boyz, come on yiz boyz in blue.'

Ah, the Dubs. The poor old Dubs. They have never enjoyed much support outside the capital but this year it seems that they have managed to get under the skin of the rest of the GAA population like never before.

And it is not just their players that are getting up peoples noses. The fans have done their bit too. Strolling in to Croke Park a few minutes after throw in time, 'Arra sure yiz can't start the bleedin game without us,' seems to be their attitude. And they probably have a point, the atmosphere would not be the same without the craic on the hill but they should perhaps have one drink less before the game and show a little more respect for those who turn up on time.

But anyway, enough about the fans, its the actions of the players that has most enraged the GAA populace. In their recent Leinster final victory against Laois three or four Dublin players were seen to goad the Laois players as the game came to a close. They pointed to the scoreboard, gave sarcastic waves 'bye bye' to the Laois lads and taunted them with the a three fingered salute telling them how many Leinster titles they had won. As I watched all this goading, I just knew that journalists were sharpening their pencils and analysts were clearing their throats. With the match being pretty one sided the behaviour of the Dublin players was now going to be the number one story.

And sure enough the analysts had their say that night and the papers went to town on it the next day. You see, everything the Dubs do is exaggerated. A good performance always becomes a great performance while a below par showing will be reported as shambolic. Reading some of the comment concerning the goading of Laois players you would have been forgiven for thinking that the Dublin boys had committed crimes against the very ethos of the GAA and furthermore that they were the first people ever to commit them.

Trash talking, sledging, or whatever else you want to call it happens all over the country. It is part of the GAA, we may not like it but it's a fact. Is it nice? No. Would it be better if it did not occur? Yes. But what we must take into account is the fact that a player who resorts to this type of goading has rarely been unprovoked.

I can tell you after getting your ribs boxed off you for 55 minutes there is nothing more satisfying than turning to your marker and pointing at the scoreboard when you know victory is assured. I'm not saying the Laois lads were engaging in off the ball violence but without the full story perhaps we should not be too quick to judge the Dublin fellas'.

Unfortunately there is an unwritten rule within the GAA that violence is OK. If you don't believe me ask yourself this question. Is it more acceptable to give a guy a few 'skelps' to the kidneys or to taunt him after kicking a score that puts the game beyond doubt? Be honest with yourselves!

I think most would favour the former tactic. Off the ball stuff is part of the Association and to be brutally honest there has never been enough done in my opinion to stamp it out. Umpires stand like dummies while players get pulled, hauled, boxed and kicked. Sure haven't we often heard the old chestnut that a corner back would never be good enough because he was not dirty enough or that other famous line of thought that advises a back to hit his forward a few wallops early on to put him out of the game.

It always makes me laugh that a bit of taunting is seen as the worst crime in the world but off the ball violence is accepted by so many Gaels.

But going back to the Dubs, it was the actions of their manager, Pillar Caffrey, that I found to be the most insulting. What goes on once players cross the white line is one thing but for a manager to act in the way Pillar did in the last ten minutes of the game was in my mind much more insulting that anything his players did.

Grinning like a Cheshire cat he made a few substitutions in the last ten minutes. As he greeted the players coming off he embraced them with high five's and hugs. He then proceeded to get his son down from the stands to enjoy the final whistle with him. Now, fair play to him for wanting to enjoy this special moment with his son but I felt that it only rubbed Laois's face in it.

With a quarter final tie with Derry to come the vast majority of the country will be hoping the Oak Leaf men can beat them. The Dubs have become the team everyone loves to hate, but they can play football and are serious All Ireland contenders. Can you imagine the smile on Pillar's face if they manage to lift Sam; it might even stay for the post match interview!

Good read but whats this got to do with Graham?

I reproduced the whole article for accuracy's sake only. Just seems to me that a week ago Colm was prepared to accept a bit of verbals/goading etc as part of the game and in fact it was usually retaliatory in nature, whereas off the ball stuff was the major problem in the GAA, now of course it's the Graham affair.  Also in his Sunday Life article he states that as a player he heard instances of sectarian abuse yet as a journalist he never felt this was worthy of a story until now??  To be fair I take your point...I suppose my original point is more about Colm and the nature of journos rather than a direct comment on the Graham affair itself.

I have the option to buy two tickets for the The Police in Croker. Are the worth going to see or should I stick with Richie Kavanagh?

FFS, the PSNI playing @ HQ?!?!?  OK, let's stamp out sectarianism but this is too much too soon!!

[Graham]

That's Darren Graham, Tony

[Fermanagh Herald August 1st 2007]

Some intertesting views expressed by Colm Bradley on the Darren Graham affair.  Here's what he had to say in the Fermanagh Herald on 01/08/2007 in an article about the Dubs about off the ball stuff,sledging, goading, verbals etc:

Fermanagh Herald August 1st 2007

The poor misunderstood Dubs

Come on yiz boyz in blue, come on yiz boyz in blue, come on yiz boyz, come on yiz boyz in blue.'

Ah, the Dubs. The poor old Dubs. They have never enjoyed much support outside the capital but this year it seems that they have managed to get under the skin of the rest of the GAA population like never before.

And it is not just their players that are getting up peoples noses. The fans have done their bit too. Strolling in to Croke Park a few minutes after throw in time, 'Arra sure yiz can't start the bleedin game without us,' seems to be their attitude. And they probably have a point, the atmosphere would not be the same without the craic on the hill but they should perhaps have one drink less before the game and show a little more respect for those who turn up on time.

But anyway, enough about the fans, its the actions of the players that has most enraged the GAA populace. In their recent Leinster final victory against Laois three or four Dublin players were seen to goad the Laois players as the game came to a close. They pointed to the scoreboard, gave sarcastic waves 'bye bye' to the Laois lads and taunted them with the a three fingered salute telling them how many Leinster titles they had won. As I watched all this goading, I just knew that journalists were sharpening their pencils and analysts were clearing their throats. With the match being pretty one sided the behaviour of the Dublin players was now going to be the number one story.

And sure enough the analysts had their say that night and the papers went to town on it the next day. You see, everything the Dubs do is exaggerated. A good performance always becomes a great performance while a below par showing will be reported as shambolic. Reading some of the comment concerning the goading of Laois players you would have been forgiven for thinking that the Dublin boys had committed crimes against the very ethos of the GAA and furthermore that they were the first people ever to commit them.

Trash talking, sledging, or whatever else you want to call it happens all over the country. It is part of the GAA, we may not like it but it's a fact. Is it nice? No. Would it be better if it did not occur? Yes. But what we must take into account is the fact that a player who resorts to this type of goading has rarely been unprovoked.

I can tell you after getting your ribs boxed off you for 55 minutes there is nothing more satisfying than turning to your marker and pointing at the scoreboard when you know victory is assured. I'm not saying the Laois lads were engaging in off the ball violence but without the full story perhaps we should not be too quick to judge the Dublin fellas'.

Unfortunately there is an unwritten rule within the GAA that violence is OK. If you don't believe me ask yourself this question. Is it more acceptable to give a guy a few 'skelps' to the kidneys or to taunt him after kicking a score that puts the game beyond doubt? Be honest with yourselves!

I think most would favour the former tactic. Off the ball stuff is part of the Association and to be brutally honest there has never been enough done in my opinion to stamp it out. Umpires stand like dummies while players get pulled, hauled, boxed and kicked. Sure haven't we often heard the old chestnut that a corner back would never be good enough because he was not dirty enough or that other famous line of thought that advises a back to hit his forward a few wallops early on to put him out of the game.

It always makes me laugh that a bit of taunting is seen as the worst crime in the world but off the ball violence is accepted by so many Gaels.

But going back to the Dubs, it was the actions of their manager, Pillar Caffrey, that I found to be the most insulting. What goes on once players cross the white line is one thing but for a manager to act in the way Pillar did in the last ten minutes of the game was in my mind much more insulting that anything his players did.

Grinning like a Cheshire cat he made a few substitutions in the last ten minutes. As he greeted the players coming off he embraced them with high five's and hugs. He then proceeded to get his son down from the stands to enjoy the final whistle with him. Now, fair play to him for wanting to enjoy this special moment with his son but I felt that it only rubbed Laois's face in it.

With a quarter final tie with Derry to come the vast majority of the country will be hoping the Oak Leaf men can beat them. The Dubs have become the team everyone loves to hate, but they can play football and are serious All Ireland contenders. Can you imagine the smile on Pillar's face if they manage to lift Sam; it might even stay for the post match interview!

Hopefully it's the US Senate

[only]

What about words/phrases only used in GAA...has anyone ever heard John Motson talk about a "schemozzle" in an Arsenal/Man Utd game??

'Wexford won't like that Ger!', you won't hear that Cyril gem in the premiership!

Or..."Ryan Giggs, a member of the famous three in a row side"...or "Lawrie Sanchez, new manager of the Thamesiders"  "The Chelsea back four, hunting in packs"

[they]

How can they ever be a member of the GAA as they are not only about their sports but also a cultural organisation to promote the Irish culture. it would be a bit like a nationalist joining the OO.

I'm confused.  How does making the GAA non-sectarian impact on the Irishness of the organisation?  Or to simplify the same question, why should it?

OK, let's make the GAA less of a cold house to Northern Protestants.  How do we do this?  Well you could start by stopping the flying of the tricolour at GAA grounds, stop playing the national anthem or go for an Ireland's Call type song (along as it's not written by Phil Coulter ), maybe have the scoreboard in Irish English & Ulster Scots (or just have it in English)...now before anyone blows a gasket, not so long ago my work involved me working with largely Protestant community groups in Belfast...these are some of the things they suggested when this topic came up about a year ago.

The GAA is an 32 county organisation with a lot of associated trappings.  This is what a lot of working class northern Protestants cannot buy into.

Christ! Would you ever listen to yourself?! The GAA doesn't have to change anything of the sort in order to have protestants playing the game, just a little more OPEN MINDEDNESS on BOTH sides. My own club in Cavan a few miles from the border has two protestants from two different families on the senior panel at the moment. There are one or two working class protestants on the under age teams, and one of the lads fathers is actually a member of the orange lodge.

Would we use this as a reason to not welcome him or any of the other lads into the club? Absolutely not. Do we stop celebrating our Irishness because of it?! Absolutely not. If you ask your protestant neighbour as a person and not as a >enter sectarian name here<, I believe he or she would gladly come along. No one says it would be easy for a protestant to join a GAA club, but if you make them feel welcome, they will join.

Get rid of your clannish attitude and this whole "ah sure he's a working class protestant, he won't want to join" attitude. It's not surprising that protestants feel like a fish out of water playing the GAA with people like you about. I read that list of what "they" suggested, and you can NOT tell me that it represented every working class protestant in NI.

It doesn't represent every working class Protestant of course, but it represents a hell of a lot.  Listen, just because Paisley & McGuinness are slow dancing up at Stormont doesn't mean everybody loves each other here!!

For Sat I'm going with

Antrim
Tyrone/Meath draw
Sligo to shock Cork

[they]

How can they ever be a member of the GAA as they are not only about their sports but also a cultural organisation to promote the Irish culture. it would be a bit like a nationalist joining the OO.

I'm confused.  How does making the GAA non-sectarian impact on the Irishness of the organisation?  Or to simplify the same question, why should it?

OK, let's make the GAA less of a cold house to Northern Protestants.  How do we do this?  Well you could start by stopping the flying of the tricolour at GAA grounds, stop playing the national anthem or go for an Ireland's Call type song (along as it's not written by Phil Coulter ), maybe have the scoreboard in Irish English & Ulster Scots (or just have it in English)...now before anyone blows a gasket, not so long ago my work involved me working with largely Protestant community groups in Belfast...these are some of the things they suggested when this topic came up about a year ago.

The GAA is an 32 county organisation with a lot of associated trappings.  This is what a lot of working class northern Protestants cannot buy into.

@ dublinfella...Prods can be Irish of course but you cannot ignore the fact that a significant number of northern Prods don't consider themselves Irish and don't want to be Irish.  

[one]

Agree 100% with Maximus, OK the Tommy Murphy does not set the world alight but don't forget we're in it becasue we're a Div 4 team!  I've been championship games where the match was there to be won by Antrim and we ended up losing by 3 or 4 points...one of the reasons IMHO was that we weren't used to winning.  We need to gid rid of the glorious failure mindset and build a squad used to winning and the TMC is as good a place to start as any.  I remind people of the Mickey Harte mantra that "We try to win every competition we're in".