Jimmy McGuinness

[onefineday]

A lot of people taking great joy in Jimmy's, Murphy's and Donegal's woes. Some serious shite talked on Pods as well, some of them are more interested in dancing on graves. Quickly forgotten that Donegal spanked Kerry 3 times this year.

Yep, whatever about the Kerry games and the legitimate questions about Donegal's approach to this season, there are a number of lads on here who have been hysterically howling about Donegal for years and years (Bonner, Martin McHugh, Ryan McHugh, McGuinness, Murphy, even Brendan Devenney way back when if you're an old timer like me), but it's gotten ridiculous since McGuinness, and later Murphy, came back.

Maybe when the likes of Mark McHugh or Karl Lacey succeed McGuinness as manager, it'll change, but I'll not hold my breath.

I like McGuinness I think he's great for the game. It would be a much more boring sport without him.

It became a boring sport largely because of him.

Utter nonsense. I overheard a dub fan leaving croker last Sunday commenting that hopefully that will be the end of mcguinness in gaelic football and that he's been a cancer on the game.

People have short memories,there were plenty of bad games before 2011 and plenty more after that. Gavin's dublin were rarely the most exhilarating to watch with their "process' driven, percentage game.
I remember the aftermath of the 03 final and dub work colleagues telling me that ulster has ruined gaelic football and they'd never watch another game after that final.
And finally, that Donegal team who won in 2012 were an excellent watch, yes, primarily running based, but the effort, pace and intricacies of their play were a sight to behold and we tend to forget the win over Dublin in 14, which was another tactical masterclass and great game to boot.

[statto]

The unchanging obsession with Jim and Donegal is of autistic proportions.

Inter county football is better with the likes of McGuinness about, McGeeney too...the more characters the better.

I can't get on board with this at all.

Jimmy ruined football in his first stint as Donegal manager. By proving you could win football matches without a territorial advantage, he inspired a legion of men to systematically ruin the county game, the club game, the schools game, through ultra-negative, risk-free, chessboard football.

Hence FRC was born.

How anyone can applaud what he has done is just beyond me.

Personally I was delighted that Donegal got smashed in last year's final. And it's nothing even slightly against Donegal - probably my favourite people and county in Ireland.

But the one thing that we didn't need after FRC was a running team taking the title. The one thing we really needed was those legion of anti-football coaches to start questioning themselves. The other thing we needed was a clearly impassioned Donegal squad to start questioning what it's all about; to ponder why they have to train and work like marathon runners, when there's a better, easier way to play the sport unfolding in front of their eyes. To down tools on that shite.

Short version: f**k Jimmy McGuinness. Our game is better off with him as far away from it as possible .

Like him or loathe him, he deserves great credit for being able to turn a Donegal team comprehensively beaten by a pretty average Armagh team in Crossmaglen in 2010 into AI winners in 2012. 

Donegal would have been known as a talented bunch of players from their All Ireland win in 1992 to the McGuiness era who liked to party too much or at the wrong time and he had a massive impact in that culture change. 

[thewobbler]

A lot of people taking great joy in Jimmy's, Murphy's and Donegal's woes. Some serious shite talked on Pods as well, some of them are more interested in dancing on graves. Quickly forgotten that Donegal spanked Kerry 3 times this year.

Yep, whatever about the Kerry games and the legitimate questions about Donegal's approach to this season, there are a number of lads on here who have been hysterically howling about Donegal for years and years (Bonner, Martin McHugh, Ryan McHugh, McGuinness, Murphy, even Brendan Devenney way back when if you're an old timer like me), but it's gotten ridiculous since McGuinness, and later Murphy, came back.

Maybe when the likes of Mark McHugh or Karl Lacey succeed McGuinness as manager, it'll change, but I'll not hold my breath.

I like McGuinness I think he's great for the game. It would be a much more boring sport without him.

It became a boring sport largely because of him.

Utter nonsense. I overheard a dub fan leaving croker last Sunday commenting that hopefully that will be the end of mcguinness in gaelic football and that he's been a cancer on the game.

People have short memories,there were plenty of bad games before 2011 and plenty more after that. Gavin's dublin were rarely the most exhilarating to watch with their "process' driven, percentage game.
I remember the aftermath of the 03 final and dub work colleagues telling me that ulster has ruined gaelic football and they'd never watch another game after that final.
And finally, that Donegal team who won in 2012 were an excellent watch, yes, primarily running based, but the effort, pace and intricacies of their play were a sight to behold and we tend to forget the win over Dublin in 14, which was another tactical masterclass and great game to boot.

People might have short memories but yours is entirely tinted.

There will always be bad games, and there were plenty before 2011.

But the rancid, unwatchable decline of football was steered by that **** McGuinness.

The only reason Donegal 2012 were an "excellent watch" was because nobody had yet mirrored their system. So they'd a one way counterattacking gameplan. By 2014 pretty much every game of county football was muck.

Highlighting the Dubs for playing like this from 2015 onwards, while trying to pretend McGuinness was not the instigator takes some serious blinkers.

[J70]

"I was just following orders!"

Besides, if McGuinness hadn't tried that approach, someone else would have eventually. McEniff pulled most of the team back deep to play on the break in the 2003 AI semi and almost pulled off a shock win.  It's not like Jim invented it out of whole cloth. It had been used in soccer for years. Mourinho coined the phrase "parking the bus" five years before McGuinness took the Donegal U21s. The term "blanket defense" wasn't coined in 2011.

[tyrone08]

Personally speaking I think McGuinness and slightly Murphy reputation have suffered due to their comebacks. Last 2 years McGuinness has came across as a very unlikeable man, constantly moaning at every opportunity and making excuses even though every manager is in the same boat. He was badly found out last year and again this year. Hes not the tactical marvel everyone thought he was. Instead of taking any learnings from his own mistakes or other teams mistakes he doubles down and expects players to increase their already unsustainable work rate.

Murphy has lashed out a right few times since coming back, something he got away with for years but its becoming more apparent now and he is rightfully being called out for it. Getting away with red cards and getting yourself black carded and possibly the team knockout as a result will be part of his history unless he comes back next year and ends on a better note.

[Main Street]

The unchanging obsession with Jim and Donegal is of autistic proportions.

The absolute cheek of people to discuss a gaelic-football team and a gaelic-football manager on a gaelic-football message board.

Almost as bad as singing Jimmy's winnings matches after every non important game.

I don't know how some words are understood in Tyrone but there is a world of difference between 'unchanging obsession' and 'discussion'. The extremes 'Fck mcGuinness', he's a cancer to the game, hate McGuinness, "ruined the game" for the zillionth time. Like we never heard of cynical, even puke football, until Jimmy came along? defensive safety structures?? .  Some teams  once targeted as the masters of the shítshow of cynicism in the game long before Jimmy came along  must breathe a sigh of relief that it's Jimmy and Donegal who are the sole scapegoats for bringing the game into such disrepute leading to the impetus for change in the rules.
That's GAA style myopia. 
I hope Jimmy stays on and look forward to see if he and Donegal can respond with a refreshed squad and approach next year. He did manage to do the inconceivable this year by causing to get the sympathy of most of the GAA nation to get behind Dublin.

[imtommygunn]

Personally I am not convinced Donegal would be worse off without Murphy. Fantastic in his day but definitely slowing down which I think is exposing that bit of a streak he has in him.

[tyrone08]

The unchanging obsession with Jim and Donegal is of autistic proportions.

The absolute cheek of people to discuss a gaelic-football team and a gaelic-football manager on a gaelic-football message board.

Almost as bad as singing Jimmy's winnings matches after every non important game.

I don't know how some words are understood in Tyrone but there is a world of difference between 'unchanging obsession' and 'discussion'. The extremes 'Fck mcGuinness', he's a cancer to the game, hate McGuinness, "ruined the game" for the zillionth time. Like we never heard of cynical, even puke football, until Jimmy came along? defensive safety structures?? .  Some teams  once targeted as the masters of the shítshow of cynicism in the game long before Jimmy came along  must breathe a sigh of relief that it's Jimmy and Donegal who are the sole scapegoats for bringing the game into such disrepute leading to the impetus for change in the rules.
That's GAA style myopia. 
I hope Jimmy stays on and look forward to see if he and Donegal can respond with a refreshed squad and approach next year. He did manage to do the inconceivable this year by causing to get the sympathy of most of the GAA nation to get behind Dublin.

Lol he did that alright. What would be your thoughts if Jim came back and the same fate happened next year ago. Would you think it was worth a go or another year lost.

If he did come back and got the same outcome i think his reputation would taking a tanking which is bound to play on his mind when hes deciding.

[J70]

Well let's see:

Donegal 1993-2010 - zero Ulster titles, one AI semi, one league title
Donegal 2011-2014 - three Ulster titles, one AI title, one AI final, one AI semi exit
Donegal 2015-2023 - two Ulster titles
Donegal 2024-2026 - two Ulster titles, one AI final, one AI semi exit, one league title

Anything along the lines of a pattern emerging there...??

[AustinPowers]

Personally speaking I think McGuinness and slightly Murphy reputation have suffered due to their comebacks. Last 2 years McGuinness has came across as a very unlikeable man, constantly moaning at every opportunity and making excuses even though every manager is in the same boat. He was badly found out last year and again this year. Hes not the tactical marvel everyone thought he was. Instead of taking any learnings from his own mistakes or other teams mistakes he doubles down and expects players to increase their already unsustainable work rate.

Murphy has lashed out a right few times since coming back, something he got away with for years but its becoming more apparent now and he is rightfully being called out for it. Getting away with red cards and getting yourself black carded and possibly the team knockout as a result will be part of his history unless he comes back next year and ends on a better note.

He was  being rightfully called out for it recently yes , but that meant diddly squat, because he  still got  away with it  time and time again.

[tyrone08]

Well let's see:

Donegal 1993-2010 - zero Ulster titles, one AI semi, one league title
Donegal 2011-2014 - three Ulster titles, one AI title, one AI final, one AI semi exit
Donegal 2015-2023 - two Ulster titles
Donegal 2024-2026 - two Ulster titles, one AI final, one AI semi exit, one league title

Anything along the lines of a pattern emerging there...??

Pattern that Jim's approach will win you most games just not the ones that matter the most.

To me it proves that jim can make teams effective and hard to beat but its not sustainable over 4-5 years and ultimately it wont work against the top teams

[J70]

Well let's see:

Donegal 1993-2010 - zero Ulster titles, one AI semi, one league title
Donegal 2011-2014 - three Ulster titles, one AI title, one AI final, one AI semi exit
Donegal 2015-2023 - two Ulster titles
Donegal 2024-2026 - two Ulster titles, one AI final, one AI semi exit, one league title

Anything along the lines of a pattern emerging there...??

Pattern that Jim's approach will win you most games just not the ones that matter the most.

To me it proves that jim can make teams effective and hard to beat but its not sustainable over 4-5 years and ultimately it wont work against the top teams

It netted him one AI title and two runners up spots in seven seasons for a county that otherwise was been to and won a total of ONE AI final in all of the other seasons in which it has taken part.

We've been to five AI semi finals in his seven seasons, winning three. Before Jim and during his interregnum ( ), we've made a grand total of, let's see, FIVE AI semi finals, winning only one (all under McEniff).

If you want to nitpick and diminish what McGuinness has done for Donegal football, knock yourself out, but it doesn't line up with any fair analysis of the recent and historical record of the Donegal senior team.

[ClubScene13]

Well let's see:

Donegal 1993-2010 - zero Ulster titles, one AI semi, one league title
Donegal 2011-2014 - three Ulster titles, one AI title, one AI final, one AI semi exit
Donegal 2015-2023 - two Ulster titles
Donegal 2024-2026 - two Ulster titles, one AI final, one AI semi exit, one league title

Anything along the lines of a pattern emerging there...??

Pattern that Jim's approach will win you most games just not the ones that matter the most.

To me it proves that jim can make teams effective and hard to beat but its not sustainable over 4-5 years and ultimately it wont work against the top teams

It netted him one AI title and two runners up spots in seven seasons for a county that otherwise was been to and won a total of ONE AI final in all of the other seasons in which it has taken part.

We've been to five AI semi finals in his seven seasons, winning three. Before Jim and during his interregnum ( ), we've made a grand total of, let's see, FIVE AI semi finals, winning only one (all under McEniff).

If you want to nitpick and diminish what McGuinness has done for Donegal football, knock yourself out, but it doesn't line up with any fair analysis of the recent and historical record of the Donegal senior team.

You get some mad statistics when you zoom out like that. I seen on Twitter that if Tyrone win on Saturday then Malachy O'Rourke has taken Tyrone to more All Ireland semi finals than Armagh have been to in the last 20 years. He's only in year 2 and people within the county are not overly impressed. A mad stat but a true one.

Mickey Harte defenders always knew his results stood up well against the history of Tyrone football as well but in the end he had ran his course, you can do a right bit of cherry picking if you want to look back across a generation or two

[DaleCooper]

Jim McGuinness after Dublin game

"We have to go away now, and we have to look at absolutely everything again" 

Staying on as you would imagine. James Horan put it down to mental exhaustion, saying he noticed basic errors against Cork that crept in.

People saying they have been training since Sept? Lol

[tonto1888]

Well let's see:

Donegal 1993-2010 - zero Ulster titles, one AI semi, one league title
Donegal 2011-2014 - three Ulster titles, one AI title, one AI final, one AI semi exit
Donegal 2015-2023 - two Ulster titles
Donegal 2024-2026 - two Ulster titles, one AI final, one AI semi exit, one league title

Anything along the lines of a pattern emerging there...??

Pattern that Jim's approach will win you most games just not the ones that matter the most.

To me it proves that jim can make teams effective and hard to beat but its not sustainable over 4-5 years and ultimately it wont work against the top teams

It netted him one AI title and two runners up spots in seven seasons for a county that otherwise was been to and won a total of ONE AI final in all of the other seasons in which it has taken part.

We've been to five AI semi finals in his seven seasons, winning three. Before Jim and during his interregnum ( ), we've made a grand total of, let's see, FIVE AI semi finals, winning only one (all under McEniff).

If you want to nitpick and diminish what McGuinness has done for Donegal football, knock yourself out, but it doesn't line up with any fair analysis of the recent and historical record of the Donegal senior team.

I wouldnt be his biggest fan, though I do find myself agreeing with him at times, but the talk of McGuiness ruining football is pure horseshit. Have his teams been involved in some turgid games? Of course, but what teams havent. Not every game is gonna be the Kerry - Galway final from 22 (?)