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Easy to say Cody would have dropped them as he has the replacements to come in, Davy doesn't have that luxury. Besides these lads got Waterford to numerous AI semi finals and despite the poor form of some to this years AI, so I think it was fair to give them a go on the big day. Where Davy feel down IMO was he was too slow to make changes, Dan for example should have been off after 20min. or into full forward. I'm no fan of Davy, as a personality or manager, but it's easy to criticise after the event, the bottom line is that some of the Waterford team wouldn't make the Kilkenny panel. And when a vastly superior team turns it on against an inferior oppostion their is nothing a manager can do except hope his players on the field fight for their pride.

[no]

whats has he won as a  mananger? I know he won fcuk all with roscommon then again who has but did he win anything at all with Dublin. I think he is just one of these managers that is good at self promoting

totally agree. he is one of these people that has built up a media profile for himself and somehow because of that people think that he is a decent intercounty manager. he has failed everywhere he has been.

What's your definition of failure? As MTS said all a manager can do is get the best out of his available squad and no manager does that year in year out. I also feel that too much emphasis is being put on a manager being a good 'man manager'. Nobody gets on equally well with everyone they meet and in a football squad that shouldn't be necessary. Players have a responsibility to get on with what is expected of them even if they don't always agree with the way the manager is going about it. As long as the manager is being fair to the players and is willing to listen to concerns/opinions that players (as a group or individuals) may have then that is all that can be expected of him.

I'd have to disagree with a lot of that, tickets are fine the way they are (by and large), county teams are essential to the promotion of the games and warrant the expediture spent on them, Croke Park is a magnificent venue and an integral part of the GAA, I don't know whayou're on about with the International Rules or Provincial politics. It was Waterford who screwed over their fellow Munstermen not Cork or Kerry.

I agree he got most of the big calls right, however I thought he was overly fussy and could have left the game flow a bit more. You are right however, this topic could have been covered in the main thread.

Talk about a bad referee .... no common sense and just on a complete ego trip.

And where and in what do you referee yourself?

What has that go to do with the standard of refereeing?

It's easy to hold the referee up to ridicule on a public forum (and no, I'm not a referee). Yes, he made mistakes, but overall I don't think it was as bad as you're making out here, and even if it were, this is not the place to vent your frustrations, IMO.

Why not FoSB? I thought the ref was very poor today and surely this board is one of the forums we all have the right to express our opinions on. I mean if we were to take your point on board then unless we had played Inter County football none of us should comment on IC football. As long as a fellas oopinion is not overly abusive then I don't see the problem.

[the Tyrone one's in particular]

As for the main issue, we do need a debate on where football is going and if we are going to do so on this board I'd ask the Ulster posters ( the Tyrone one's in particular) to leave your paranoia at the door.

Fair enough Zulu, but when this particular genius comes out with: "I was disgusted to see Tyrone back in Croke Park with all their negative football. I blame them for much of what has happened to football over the past decade and am no fan of Micky Harte and his legacy to Gaelic football."

It's hardly paranoia, is it? And this amadán doesn't even have the integrity to put his/her name to it, such is the courage of his/her convictions. That article's a cheap shot, of the lowest, gutter-dwelling, order, no mistake. Like Mickey Harte has personally been touring the counties and teaching footballers how not to score. Total confusion reigns here, in that amadán can't separate discipline, passion, will-to-win, determination, and no little skill from purely bad football. Not to mention the jealously and bitterness.

I'd agree FOSB that the article is rubbish and the above quote about Tyrone is pure tripe but there is a discussion needed about the direction football is going. And what, if anything, we need to do to make sure football remains a compelling sporting attraction. Personally I'll always love football but too many games like Kildare/Fermanagh and not enough of Mayo/Dublin will make the promotion of football very difficult in an increasingly competitive market place. Less people playing and watching football makes for a poorer game in the longterm.

When the pick up was abolished on an experimental basis a few years ago it speeded up the game and didn't lead to rucks ar anything like it, so I agree, it should be done away with. As for the main issue, we do need a debate on where football is going and if we are going to do so on this board I'd ask the Ulster posters ( the Tyrone one's in particular) to leave your paranoia at the door. Like I posted on another thread, criticism of certain aspects of football aren't attacks on particular counties or the result of jealousy   but simply observations on the way football is developing. I for one don't want to see the handpass restricted but I do want to see more football games like Galway V Kerry, Down V Tyrone, Cork V Kerry (2nd half) and less of Tyrone V WM, Fermangh V Kildare etc. And if rule changes are needed to increase the likelihood of more attacking football then we should embrace suggestions, experiment during secondary competitions and see where it takes us.

Puckoon, Tyrone do get caught by swarm defence when it is employed by other teams, as WM did this year. If teams get 13 or 14 players back into their own half with most of them filling up the central corridor then it is nigh on impossible for any team to avoid getting sucked in when trying to create a scoring opportunity.

Any criticism is just jealousy.  The only way some people on this foum would be happy is for the northern team to be beaten by the southern team.  Nothing else.

For Christ sake would you give over with the paranoia, criticism of a style of play doesn't equal jealousy of that teams achievements and anyway this thread isn't about Tyrone (or any other team) specifically, it is about the swarm defence. This discussion has nothing to do with Ulster V the rest and it would help if people didn't keep trying to turn it into one.

This is ridiculous answering some of you t**ts but heres my solution and my only solution

So people who don't share your opinion are t**ts, is that it feetofflames? While I don't agree with Abbles assertion that most hurling games are fantastic, in fact many hurling games this year have been very poor but hurling is being reffed in such a way as to encourage a more free flowing game. Football is not being reffed in the same way and the tactics that many teams are now employing results in more fouls and fewer decent scoring chances. Football will find it hard to grow in non-traditional areas if those people can't even sit down and watch the game at the top level. This 'it's all about winning' argument is bullshit, sport always has to be about more than just winning otherwise it will become a soulless experience.

why is it i am continuously saying to myelf, "that hurling game today was brilliant", "that was a poor game of football" ?

the hurling is free flowing, end to end stuff
we see v little of that in football.

something needs to be done.....i'll be honest here and say here now that if my county team were part of a fantastic game of football and lost i'd be happy.....if they part of a brutal game of football and won i'd be feeling alright.


yous know yourselves that the end to end stuff and a proper quality football is what we want to see.....

there are plenty of techincal areas within the game that can be improved on but i dont think this all-out defence tactic can continue.
fair enough there are situations in general play where a player does get himself tied up and the other team should take advantage of that...

what i think should be done is something to help more freedom of movement for a player who fields a good ball.

i dont know.....its each to their own....but i know that if the defensive tactic does get any worse than it is now, i'll not be goin to many more games

Once more we find ourselves in agreement Abble, a few years ago rugby changed a number of rules to make the game more free flowing and it has made the game far more entertaining, as anyone who watches rugby gold on Tg4 will vouch for. Good defending is great to see but simply getting everyone behind the ball to suffocate an attacking team is not great defending and can make some football games difficult to watch.

i'm talking first and foremost about players who make a big catch here (liken it to the mark if you want in aussies rules, all i'm suggesting is that no more than one man should be allowed to put in a challenge on that player - the high catch is the whole ethos of gaelic football, its what makes our game great to watch, its what i want to see when i pay in to watch the best players playing gaelic).

the point some are trying to make is that if 4 men are surrounding 1 man then there should be 3 other free men available to him. what sort of a pass can he make in that situation, sure he cant even stretch out his arm to handpass it. its too easy to pounce on a man as he's landing afer making a fine catch....so you think he should be penalised because he cant make a pass with 4 men on him ?!

I agree 100% with you Abble, the high catch is a skill that should be rewarded on the field of play not penalised. And while refs now generally give the fielder a free I think it would be worth experimenting with the 'mark' for a clean catch from a kickout.

Not knowing you're fitness level makes it difficult to properly advise YF but interval training is your best bet at this stage for improving speed endurance. As for speed off the mark, you won't improve your speed over 3 weeks but you should do some reaction work and short 5 -10m sprints from different starting points, i.e. facing forward/backwards, lying down, sitting down etc.

Came across this site today and some of the jerseys are class, anyone any info on the quality before I take the plunge?

A Tyrone supporter on his 'gap year' making his way back to Ireland for this weekends match.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2008/aug/13/georgia?picture=336529752