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Messages - Zulu

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1
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 17, 2017, 02:47:34 PM »
1. I think we have a fair idea of how it's spent

    - The current mileage rate of just under 42 pence is being increased to over 54 pence with a pot of just over 1m being provided annually for the new overall nutrition allowance for players

     - Under the scheme, some 167,000 will be available annually to deal with what is termed "surgical interventions" for former players.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/36887737

2. I'd favour providing more support for player's injury schemes but getting an extra 10 per year from all playing members would generate a couple of million without breaking anyone financially. There's also money there with or without the GPA funding so if it's required then why don't county boards push for this extra support?

3. Capital projects are vital, even if some have dubious merit. However, ground developments like PUC in Cork are heavily linked to the rugby world cup so the GAA got significant government investment for that.

Using words like 'sinister' in reference to the GPA just underlines the unfounded hyperbole that lads too frequently descend into when discussing the GPA.

2
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 17, 2017, 01:04:48 PM »
Has GAA money been used on things other than the injury fund and if so, are those other things also objectionable? Are the GAA now broke and unable to put money into the injury fund? If our injury fund doesn't cover our players adequately then should we all not pay a bit more in to have one that does?

3
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 17, 2017, 11:34:05 AM »
That's not being an apologist, that's pointing out that there is a lot of misinformed unfair criticism by a lot of people who wouldn't give them credit no matter what they did, but you knew that.

What exactly have the GPA done in the last two years that is notably objectionable? Have the done any good things in the past two years?

4
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 06:27:58 PM »
Sure I'd love that too but say you own a construction company in New York and I've a load of pubs there. We can choose to support out local units if we want, however, if we don't want to do that but will give our county board $10,000 each towards helping our county team prepare that's just life.

As frustrating as it is for the likes of you and me I don't think you can turn around and tell the GPA, county boards or businesses that if you're fundraising here you need to give us something. You couldn't enforce it for a start and if I'm a business man I can support what I like and if I want to give $10,000 to my county I don't expect them to get $9000 and $1000 go to the New York board who I don't want to support. If I do want to give them money I can do that separately.

Again, it's ridiculous to criticise the GPA or counties for tapping into revenue sources that are free to support them or not and can also support local units if they choose to.

5
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 05:16:58 PM »
Atypical grassroots clubman GAAboard poster - "I'll give them credit for curing cancer but how many hurls and helmets could that money have bought for underage clubs? I also haven't seen them say club players can get the medicine, is it just for inter county players I wonder? I haven't seen them explicitly say we can all get it so I'm going to assume the worst about them and tell everyone as a fact that it is only for inter county players, the elitist b**tards"

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Nonsense.

6
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 05:16:21 PM »
Joe, is it ok for Mayo, Kerry and whoever else to go to the US and fundraise money that will never be spent on the grassroots in those countries? What's the difference between that and the GPA fundraising?

Some individual county boards have been known to come out here for fundraising activities too. And no, that's not right either. Money raised here should be reinvested here, particularly money earned from selling broadcasting rights, but that's another matter.

Why should money raised there be reinvested there? I'm involved in international level GAA like you but if Mayo come to Britain or the US and ask expats to help fund their team that's up to the individuals to decide how they want to spend their money. Unfortunately, the money the GPA, Kerry, Mayo and others raise abroad probably wouldn't be given to local GAA units anyway.

The GPA and counties are raising money abroad and spending it at home and I've little issue with that as much of what we get abroad is from money generated at home so it's a two way street. I'd like to see local businesses support us more but we (the international units) need to earn that funding too.

7
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 05:10:24 PM »
It's obviously an exaggerated example Seanie but I was making the point that some of the criticism of them is similarly exaggerated. The point I was making was that some people would look at something good they've done and criticise on some side point.

At the end of the day, the GPA are required and do some good things. Do they do some daft things? Yeah, of course but so do the GAA, so does any organisation that is trying things. All groups deserve to be scrutinised and held to account but it should be fair and in the case of the GPA that isn't always the case IMO.

Why are they called Gaelic Players Association ? Should it not be Gaelic County Players Association ?

I don't know, but is that an important issue?

8
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 03:49:20 PM »
It's obviously an exaggerated example Seanie but I was making the point that some of the criticism of them is similarly exaggerated. The point I was making was that some people would look at something good they've done and criticise on some side point.

At the end of the day, the GPA are required and do some good things. Do they do some daft things? Yeah, of course but so do the GAA, so does any organisation that is trying things. All groups deserve to be scrutinised and held to account but it should be fair and in the case of the GPA that isn't always the case IMO.

9
GAA Discussion / Re: Rule change on the way for kick-outs?
« on: January 13, 2017, 03:24:51 PM »
Most sports continually t**ker with their rules and they all certainly address issues with their sports if it's becoming a poorer spectacle. We need to be realistic about the world we are living in and will have to compete in the future. The bottom line is that a large number of football fans, not to mention, general sports fans increasingly find it a difficult sport to watch.

For me, football has never developed into the sport it can be but it is definitely regressing as a spectacle and that will harm the game in the future.

10
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 03:08:25 PM »
Keep fighting the little man on all fronts, Zulu warrior.

Does that make sense in your first language?

11
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 02:53:16 PM »
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.


Two things.

Firstly - the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. So I couldn't single them out for that.

Secondly - their attitude to the people who do the grassroots work here in Ireland is the same so don't feel left out in the US!

Again, I'd love you to point to the utopian time when every unit of the GAA all got along working in harmony for a better world. I'd have some concerns about the GPA and the future of the GAA but I defend them here because a lot of the criticism here is unsubstantiated nonsense that comes from people who strike me as the kind who would criticise them if they used their funding to cure cancer.

Atypical grassroots clubman GAAboard poster - "I'll give them credit for curing cancer but how many hurls and helmets could that money have bought for underage clubs? I also haven't seen them say club players can get the medicine, is it just for inter county players I wonder? I haven't seen them explicitly say we can all get it so I'm going to assume the worst about them and tell everyone as a fact that it is only for inter county players, the elitist b**tards"

12
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 13, 2017, 02:42:47 PM »
Quote
what exactly does the GPA stand for and who is it supposed to benefit

It started, supposedly, as a player welfare body but it seems to have gotten a bit carried away with itself. It now seems to see itself as an equal partner with the GAA rather than a subset of it, hence the branding of certain events as joint productions between the GAA and the GPA.

The Hurricane Sandy business was one of its more cynical moves. They sent a squad to New York to do some work for a good cause, but by God they made sure there was a full TV camera crew there to cover it. When they returned to NY later to reap the rewards from the resulting goodwill they openly bragged about how they were going to raise a million bucks with their "star-studded" gala. I don't know if they made it to a million or not but if the GAA top brass was throwing around language like that the pitchforks-and-torches crowd would be out in force giving out about the "Grab All Association."

And don't get me started on the Hurling Super Elevens business. Coming up with an alternative sport with professional trappings and as part of a networking event with all the big shots and big donors, while a crumb is thrown from the table to the local GAA units who were never even notified that the whole thing was happening. The North American GAA board was completely ignored in that little episode, they only heard about it through the media like everyone else. Imagine the GPA waltzing into your county with big plans to promote hurling and the local county board doesn't get a look in... it's a bit like that.

I haven't been following them closely of late, but I still view them with a certain amount of suspicion. If they thought they could start a professional hurling league in America they probably would, but the only thing stopping them is their members live on the other side of the Atlantic.

What grinds my gears about the GPA is their smash-and-grab approach to the USA. They see the place as an ATM from which they can withdraw money to line their pockets, while the people actually promoting the games in the US are given table scraps at best and completely ignored at worst.


Two things.

Firstly - the GPA is only following on from the GAA in regard to viewing the US as a cash cow. So I couldn't single them out for that.

Secondly - their attitude to the people who do the grassroots work here in Ireland is the same so don't feel left out in the US!


Glad I am not the only one who views their hurricane Sandy trip as BS.
They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for even attempting to capitalize on the back of people who lost everything, and I mean everything.
This is a fact, a lot of people in that area still have not even received insurance payments on their ruined properties. If the GPA were genuine, they would have donated a large portion of their fundraiser to those people. But photo ops seemed to be more the order of the day. Once again check out their website and click on USA.

One other note, being a grass roots member in the US is due to logistics, a bit more difficult than being a grass root member in Ireland. That is why their about their fundraising in the US is all the more questionable. The money raised was not pumped back into promoting games in the USA.

Last Q, anybody know did them employ a professional fundraiser for their "Gala" at the Plaza and how much were they paid. ??

Q for the people who support the GPA on this website, any way you can address the specific points raised about their antics in the USA.

To be fair to the GAA, to say that they view the US as a cash cow is totally inaccurate.
While in the past their purse string were never really open to sending a lot of money over to the USA, they never looked for any money whatsoever.

Joe, is it ok for Mayo, Kerry and whoever else to go to the US and fundraise money that will never be spent on the grassroots in those countries? What's the difference between that and the GPA fundraising?

13
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 11, 2017, 05:59:49 PM »
Sorry you said county players only playing for their club after retirement so I was basing it on most county players picking county. If that was the case then the crowds would still be huge. If a lot of the better players picked club it would be a bit different but the county teams challenging for top honours would still get massive crowds.

14
GAA Discussion / Re: Intercounty apathy a worrying trend
« on: January 11, 2017, 05:57:16 PM »
Of course. My point is less about the final structure than the inertia in actually trying to get it changed. We've been discussing this shit for years.

Why not say we'll do something in 2018, commit to it? Then look at the various proposals and vote upon an option to try out. There's been plenty of decent ones proposed and 9 or 10 months to discuss and analyze and choose.

True, but as I say (like a broken record I'm sure) I'd like consensus on what the problem is that is being solved. A lot of people have different ideas about current issues, and some people like Zulu have many issues that they feel would be resolved with a back to the drawing board approach. The 'what would we do if we were starting out today' argument.

They are all valid viewpoints, but unless you have a fairly widely held understanding of what exactly it is you are trying to achieve, relative to what is there now, you are never going to get something done.

Not wanting to speak for Zulu, but his preferred scenario would probably introduce tiered championships and do away with the Provincial Championships. We know straight away that they are both suggestions which will not be popular with a lot of people. So what's the point in proposing something like that. Most people don't feel that weaker counties in Sam is a problem, nor do most people feel the provincial championships are a problem.

Unless you can have a commonly accepted problem definition, you will find it very hard to get ANY change accepted other than putting lipstick on the pig, which is what the one currently being discussed is in my opinion (The 8 team round robin thing). I think there's a lot of blue skying of ideas which people think would be great, and then retrofitting them to what's there at the moment to point out the issues it would fix, even if there is no agreement that they are the actual issues in the first place.

I'd like a committee set up, featuring players, coaches, adminstrators and maybe even media now that we have a significant media rights bidding cycle. Let those people be charged , not with proposing a new solution, but with gathering a consensus as to what is actually wrong. Then you propose a solution AFTER you have common understanding of the problem.

AZ, my preferred solution is not tiered championships. My changes are removing the provincials, not accommodating dual players or multiple level players. My solution means that you could provide 10+ competitive games for all minor, U21 and senior IC players in both codes, at the same time, in a structured manner.

This would solve the issue of player availability and a proper season for club players.

Eliminate burn out concerns.

Give all players a majority of games they can compete in.

Provide way more competitive games and flow to the season that would build momentum rather than the 'it only starts in August' talk.

Appeal to sponsors much more as we have way more TV exposure.

Bring far more football and hurling to provincial towns and the local community. The Dubs in Killarney or Castlebar on a Saturday night in a big game would be huge. Or what about Tyrone in Thurles in a similar game, would that help you promote the game in Tipp?

With respect AZ, you have said with a bit of imagination we can keep the provincials but I think you are completely wrong. They are four uneven groups and half the teams in them have no chance of ever winning them while increasingly the top teams aren't too bothered. AS J70 said, why not give something like I've proposed a 3 year trial and see how it goes? Bottom line for me is that the current system is hindering clubs massively but not doing much for the IC game either. Why we are so attached to that system is a mystery to me.

15
GAA Discussion / Re: CPA (Club Players Association)
« on: January 11, 2017, 05:44:38 PM »
If there was a complete division between county and club sides, with no county players ever playing for their clubs until retirement from the county game, would many people even bother going to county matches? I know I certainly wouldn't.

Tens of thousands I'd imagine.

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