Player surrounded. How do you get out of that?

[Zulu]

Any criticism is just jealousy.  The only way some people on this foum would be happy is for the northern team to be beaten by the southern team.  Nothing else.

For Christ sake would you give over with the paranoia, criticism of a style of play doesn't equal jealousy of that teams achievements and anyway this thread isn't about Tyrone (or any other team) specifically, it is about the swarm defence. This discussion has nothing to do with Ulster V the rest and it would help if people didn't keep trying to turn it into one.

[Puckoon]

What people need to realise is that when there are 4/5 men tackling one, there are 3/4 men on the team of the player in possession free and un marked. Surely the onus is on the player in possession, and his team mates to use some speed of though/hand/foot and lay the ball off to a free man when the chance arises before they are set upon by a swarm of players. How come Tyrone rarely get caught like this? Maybe its because they prepare for it - and take advantage of the situation when it arises.

[Zulu]

Puckoon, Tyrone do get caught by swarm defence when it is employed by other teams, as WM did this year. If teams get 13 or 14 players back into their own half with most of them filling up the central corridor then it is nigh on impossible for any team to avoid getting sucked in when trying to create a scoring opportunity.

[GalwayBayBoy]

What people need to realise is that when there are 4/5 men tackling one, there are 3/4 men on the team of the player in possession free and un marked. Surely the onus is on the player in possession, and his team mates to use some speed of though/hand/foot and lay the ball off to a free man when the chance arises before they are set upon by a swarm of players. How come Tyrone rarely get caught like this? Maybe its because they prepare for it - and take advantage of the situation when it arises.

In fairness everyone says this but it's not so easy in reality to find a loose player when you are surrounded and being buffeted by 4 or 5 opposition players at the same time. It's very difficult to get a clean hand-pass away let alone try to swing a boot at the ball.

Of course people say a player shouldn't get in that position in the first place but it's not always the fault of the opposition player that he gets surrounded. He could be picking up a loose pass or diving on a loose ball and before he knows it he's surrounded.

Personally I don't like to see the whole surrounding of players. It just looks ugly IMO. It looks like a ruck outside a chipper on a Saturday night. I don't think it's a particularly big problem in the game though.

[Hardy]

Kick shins. Hard and often. The referee won't see it, it'd be the last thing he'd expect, you can pretend it was an attempt to kick the ball and you'll probably get the free anyway. And they won't surround you again in a hurry.

[ONeill]

I like the hole-digging approach. Or a blow-torch.

[Bogball XV]

What people need to realise is that when there are 4/5 men tackling one, there are 3/4 men on the team of the player in possession free and un marked. Surely the onus is on the player in possession, and his team mates to use some speed of though/hand/foot and lay the ball off to a free man when the chance arises before they are set upon by a swarm of players. How come Tyrone rarely get caught like this? Maybe its because they prepare for it - and take advantage of the situation when it arises.

In fairness everyone says this but it's not so easy in reality to find a loose player when you are surrounded and being buffeted by 4 or 5 opposition players at the same time. It's very difficult to get a clean hand-pass away let alone try to swing a boot at the ball.

Of course people say a player shouldn't get in that position in the first place but it's not always the fault of the opposition player that he gets surrounded. He could be picking up a loose pass or diving on a loose ball and before he knows it he's surrounded.

Personally I don't like to see the whole surrounding of players. It just looks ugly IMO. It looks like a ruck outside a chipper on a Saturday night. I don't think it's a particularly big problem in the game though.

I agree with this, i'm not knocking tyrone as they're only playing the rules that are there and they played their game brilliantly on saturday, but it can't be right that the player in possession be at a disadvantage, there has to be a way out and at present there is not one, I'd be in favour of allowing a mark of some sort (at least on a trial basis) and maybe a rule stating the maximum number of men allowed in the tackling process (to include surrounding a man), hard to police etc I know, but I think the player in possession has to be have an option other than fouling the ball or giving it to the opposition.

[spectator]

Dig a hole.

Don't forget yer shovel ... and remember to fill the hole in again ... 

[ An essential implement for exceptional point scoring apparently ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-wVvNpAGYQ&feature=related

[Mike Sheehy]

Would the teammates of the player who's surrounded be allowed go in and shoulder some of the surrounding players out of the way?

That wouldnt work against Tyrone. They'd just dive to the ground and look for a free.

[tyssam5]

Would the teammates of the player who's surrounded be allowed go in and shoulder some of the surrounding players out of the way?

That wouldnt work against Tyrone. They'd just dive to the ground and look for a free.

Good one! 

Time for a pants check. Yep yer shittin it already.

[Puckoon]

Would the teammates of the player who's surrounded be allowed go in and shoulder some of the surrounding players out of the way?

That wouldnt work against Tyrone. They'd just dive to the ground and look for a free.

Your beloved Kingdom tried that one Mike, and rather than dive to the floor, Tyrone hit them back, harder until eventually all poor old Dara O'Se could do was swing a boot at it as he calved. The rest of the green and gold followed suit and it was cheerio to the kindgom for one more year...


Have a look if you'd like. I imagine that pained look on the kerry supporter in the stand is what you looked like too.  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxUh5xsyz1E

[Mike Sheehy]

Actually, if you look at that clip the way the Kerry players still managed to keep posession was superb, heroic even.The greatest exhibition of skill in that sequence
was Dara O'Se's masterful disposession of the Tyrone player.

[Gaffer]

Mike Sheehy. Thery re talking about you on RTE 1 at the minute. Number 20 in the TWENTY MOMENTS THAT SHOOK IRISH SPORT

[Puckoon]

Actually, if you look at that clip the way the Kerry players still managed to keep posession was superb, heroic even.The greatest exhibition of skill in that sequence
was Dara O'Se's masterful disposession of the Tyrone player.

I have looked at that clip - and Dara O'Se's disspossesion of McGinely was great (it was a copy of Cavanagh dispossessing the number 10) - but he just couldnt cope and eventually just hoofed it away.

You are right about it being heroic - both sides, but ultimately the red hands were more heroic and superb!

Im sure a pundit of the calibre of your infamous self would agree...

[ardmhachaabu]

What people need to realise is that when there are 4/5 men tackling one, there are 3/4 men on the team of the player in possession free and un marked. Surely the onus is on the player in possession, and his team mates to use some speed of though/hand/foot and lay the ball off to a free man when the chance arises before they are set upon by a swarm of players. How come Tyrone rarely get caught like this? Maybe its because they prepare for it - and take advantage of the situation when it arises.

In fairness everyone says this but it's not so easy in reality to find a loose player when you are surrounded and being buffeted by 4 or 5 opposition players at the same time. It's very difficult to get a clean hand-pass away let alone try to swing a boot at the ball.

Of course people say a player shouldn't get in that position in the first place but it's not always the fault of the opposition player that he gets surrounded. He could be picking up a loose pass or diving on a loose ball and before he knows it he's surrounded.

Personally I don't like to see the whole surrounding of players. It just looks ugly IMO. It looks like a ruck outside a chipper on a Saturday night. I don't think it's a particularly big problem in the game though.

I agree with this, i'm not knocking tyrone as they're only playing the rules that are there and they played their game brilliantly on saturday, but it can't be right that the player in possession be at a disadvantage, there has to be a way out and at present there is not one, I'd be in favour of allowing a mark of some sort (at least on a trial basis) and maybe a rule stating the maximum number of men allowed in the tackling process (to include surrounding a man), hard to police etc I know, but I think the player in possession has to be have an option other than fouling the ball or giving it to the opposition.

Aye, stop your whinging.  It's never going to happen that tackling in that way isn't allowed.  Indeed, I have witnessed Kerry at it themselves (Who would have thought it from purists?)