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Messages - Zulu

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1
Heading to this myself and expect Mayo to win. Don't know what the situation is in Cork but they aren't as bad as their performances indicate so Mayo need to deliver a performance. However, if they do they might win handy because if Cork fall 3 or 4 behind in the second half they might be happy for the season to be over and just pack their tents. If Mayo give them a lifeline Cork have enough quality to cause a surprise. Hope Mayo win as they have the heart for the battles ahead, don't think Cork have.

2
Zulu tipped Dublin to hockey us, then Kerry to win the final, in 2008 (long memories), so I'll just leave that there! :P ;)

Jaysus, was I posting here 9 years ago? If I said that I've obviously matured and developed a far better understanding of football so you can now take my views as gospel!!

3
Zulu, why don't you just admit that Ulster is the best, that all its 9 teams are super, that Ulster would win every All Ireland only for Kerry Dublin and Mayo get soft passages to the All Ireland Series.
Then that effin Bomber might just go away  and and give us all a break.

Ha, fair enough. I've made my point so I'll leave it now.

4
If you can't accept Quinlivan was injured and not just carry a knock then you're not discussing this but simply trying to point score. He was a passenger for most of the game and not the central figure he would normally be.

What Tipp or Clare have done in the past 17 years is irrelevant to their immediate future. Tipp were in an All Ireland semi final last year and have a strong recent underage record and Clare have shown themselves to be a very competitive team against many of top 16 to 4 teams. I don't know if they will be in QF's regularly but there's nothing to suggest that a championship game against Armagh, Cavan, Fermanagh, Derry, Antrim or Down would be at least 50:50 in the foreseeable future. Monaghan and Donegal would probably be a bit too strong and Tyrone very likely to beat them.

You're entitled to disagree with that but I don't see any recent evidence to suggest you'd be right. Both Tipp and Clare tend to be underestimated as 'hurling' counties but at the moment they are definitely a match for any team not in the top 6 in the country.

5
Don't agree it was an anomaly. Clare were unlucky to meet Mayo this year and Tipp, short their best forward, lost to Armagh by a goal. I think both those teams will make QF's again before long. A SF might be beyond both again but QF's are very much within their range and if Tipp get a few hurlers back and O'Riordan from Oz they will make them regularly enough.

I'd get rid of the provincials in the morning, for many reasons, but the inequity of the provinces would be one of the main ones. It's daft having four groups of unequal numbers feeding into the All Ireland series.


Tipp's best forward played the full 70 minutes against Armagh.

You'd accept he was severely hindered though?

You'll accept he played the full 70 minutes and scored Tipp's only goal with a great individual effort?

Absolutely, which begs the question what damage he would have done fully fit. Besides, the point is Tipp and Clare are at least as good as most of the counties in Ulster and both have a decent chance of making QF's for the foreseeable future.

6
Don't agree it was an anomaly. Clare were unlucky to meet Mayo this year and Tipp, short their best forward, lost to Armagh by a goal. I think both those teams will make QF's again before long. A SF might be beyond both again but QF's are very much within their range and if Tipp get a few hurlers back and O'Riordan from Oz they will make them regularly enough.

I'd get rid of the provincials in the morning, for many reasons, but the inequity of the provinces would be one of the main ones. It's daft having four groups of unequal numbers feeding into the All Ireland series.

Tipp's best forward played the full 70 minutes against Armagh.

You'd accept he was severely hindered though?

7
Don't agree it was an anomaly. Clare were unlucky to meet Mayo this year and Tipp, short their best forward, lost to Armagh by a goal. I think both those teams will make QF's again before long. A SF might be beyond both again but QF's are very much within their range and if Tipp get a few hurlers back and O'Riordan from Oz they will make them regularly enough.

I'd get rid of the provincials in the morning, for many reasons, but the inequity of the provinces would be one of the main ones. It's daft having four groups of unequal numbers feeding into the All Ireland series.

8
Ok, so facts don't matter just how you interpret them. This year 3 Ulster teams coming through the qualifiers shows Ulster is the strongest province but last year 3 Munster teams into the QF is an anomaly? You're also ignoring the fact Ulster have more qualifier entries and luck of the draw can skew the results. So it's not black and white, its interpretation of the simple facts that matter. Ulster has more middle of the road teams because it has more teams. It's no more difficult to win for the Kerrys, Dublins or Tyrones than any other bar, maybe, playing one more round against a team you'd beat 10 times out of 10.

Not sure why some Ulster posters seem to be put out if Ulster is discribed as anything other than a minefield. It's not, at the moment anyway, but has one very good team and a few more decent ones but probably no better than 6 to 8 other non-Ulster teams.

I'll make one edit to my post. I think Monaghan are a very good side though their Down and Carlow performances raise questions about where they are this year. Nevertheless, I think they are on the edges of the top 4 too but don't seem to be playing like that. Would love to see them make a semi final at least.

9
Ok, so facts don't matter just how you interpret them. This year 3 Ulster teams coming through the qualifiers shows Ulster is the strongest province but last year 3 Munster teams into the QF is an anomaly? You're also ignoring the fact Ulster have more qualifier entries and luck of the draw can skew the results. So it's not black and white, its interpretation of the simple facts that matter. Ulster has more middle of the road teams because it has more teams. It's no more difficult to win for the Kerrys, Dublins or Tyrones than any other bar, maybe, playing one more round against a team you'd beat 10 times out of 10.

Not sure why some Ulster posters seem to be put out if Ulster is discribed as anything other than a minefield. It's not, at the moment anyway, but has one very good team and a few more decent ones but probably no better than 6 to 8 other non-Ulster teams.

10
Lots of people talk about how Dublin haven't beaten anyone of note yet, they won Leinster too easily and Tyrone will put it up to them etc. But, as good as Tyrone look, and the do look good, they had it easy in Ulster this year. How good are they really?

They have had it easy in Ulster but Ulster is a step above the rest of the Provinces.

4 teams come through the qualifiers to the last 12, 3 of them happen to be from Ulster.

It's not though. From results so far, you could argue that Munster have 3 teams (Tipp, Clare and Cork) all in or around the standard of everyone in Ulster bar Tyrone. Are Galway, Roscommon or Sligo not all at that level, at least, too. What about Meath, Kildare, Westmeath and even Carlow? What results indicate that they are much below the level of Armagh, Down or Donegal? If it's tougher it's primarily because it's got 9 counties but most are very much in the pack with the rest of Ireland.

It is though.

3 Ulster sides came through the qualifiers to R4, 1 Connacht side progressed and 0 sides from Leinster and Munster progressed.

You're arguing facts here which is the fundamental problem with your position.

Ok, if it's a simple numbers game then Munster was the strongest province last year surely? And do provinces with more teams entering the qualifiers not have a better chance of getting more through than those with less? These are facts too which is where you're going wrong.

11
Lots of people talk about how Dublin haven't beaten anyone of note yet, they won Leinster too easily and Tyrone will put it up to them etc. But, as good as Tyrone look, and the do look good, they had it easy in Ulster this year. How good are they really?

They have had it easy in Ulster but Ulster is a step above the rest of the Provinces.

4 teams come through the qualifiers to the last 12, 3 of them happen to be from Ulster.

It's not though. From results so far, you could argue that Munster have 3 teams (Tipp, Clare and Cork) all in or around the standard of everyone in Ulster bar Tyrone. Are Galway, Roscommon or Sligo not all at that level, at least, too. What about Meath, Kildare, Westmeath and even Carlow? What results indicate that they are much below the level of Armagh, Down or Donegal? If it's tougher it's primarily because it's got 9 counties but most are very much in the pack with the rest of Ireland.

12
So, if its competitive from say U-12 and you have 30 lads coming to training, how do you give more than 20 of them a game ?
In other words, in being competitive, are you happy to accept you are going to lose 10 lads .... any of whom could well be the star guy at minor if they continue to get the chance

Could you not field two teams? Or attend as many tournaments as possible to give players who don't get much championship time more games?

13
Dublin would still be favourites but Kerry have beaten them in a high octane league final, ran them close last year and have, in Geaney and O'Donoghue, perhaps the two best inside forwards in Ireland. I think Kerry will beat them if they meet but they are definitely the best equipped IMO. I think you've posted that Tyrone's style is best suited to beating Dublin but I couldn't disagree more. If Tyrone set up with 14 behind the ball and attempt to run the ball on the break they'll definitely lose to Dublin. Kerry will leave more players up front and Tyrone need to do that as well IMO. Tyrone's issue is they probably don't have the type of players to stay up front and be effective.

14
But Kerry and Dublin have performed at national level so their provincial performances mean nothing - they've proven themselves at national level whereas Tyrone haven't. Maybe Tyrone have improved and it's brilliant for a neutral like me if they have but I haven't seen anything that makes me think they'd beat Dublin or Kerry and there's nothing in Ulster of that quality. Kildare hammered Meath who only lost to Donegal by a great late McBrearty score. Formlines in the GAA are dodgy but Tyrone haven't played anyone close to a Dublin or Kerry yet and I think there's a gap still there.

15
I never said anything about the quality of Ulster compared to the other provinces but unlike Mayo, Dublin and Kerry Tyrone haven't done much outside the province in recent years so winning Ulster doesn't prove anything re their ability to push on. Besides, Armagh didn't look much better than a Tipp team beaten by a Cork team hammered by Kerry. Monaghan struggled against a Carlow team that Dublin disposed of much more easily. Lots of Ulster teams are no better than many others around the country. The amount of teams a province gets to the latter stages is as much about the draw as anything or was Munster the strongest province last year?

Tyrone may have improved their attacking ability but I can't say I've seen it, though admittedly I have seen a huge amount. However, they didn't look great in the first half of the Ulster final and added a fair bit when the game was over and still seem to have plenty of small forwards that won't break tackles against the best teams.

It would be great if another team can genuinely challenge but I think considering Tyrone all Ireland contenders based on what we've seen is premature. I think they're due to meet Dublin in the semi finals and I just can't see them win that.

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