Is Johno one of football's greatest ever managers, as evidenced by his 2 All Ireland's with Galway, and a famous 1994 Connacht Title with Leitrim??.........or in the case of Galway, was he just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time as an exceptional crop of players emerged such as Meehan's , Joyce, Donnellan, Divilly etc?.......Could most top managers have won an All Ireland with those players?
Have Mayo really progressed in his second coming, or did the Mayo Co.Board make a big mistake in shafting Mickey Moran in 2006?.......Is O'Mahony hanging on to the Mayo job for fear of alienating voters by packing it in, or is he more likely to alienate some of them by staying on?
DISCUSS.
YES, YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!!!!
Many here will know this is my long held opinion. He is a cute hoor though. Chose his jobs well. The current job is one that was forced upon him and he had to take it in order to get elected.
Can you imagine if someone like Mickey Harte was managing that Galway team of the late 90's/early 2000's?
i wonder what John would have won if Derek Thompson didn't pass the Ball to Michael Donnellan in 1998 or if the backdoor wasn't introduced in 2001 what if indeed?
Hes a manager who has had great success in the past,but he hasnt moved with the times,
His Galway teams of 98-01 played great open and attractive football. That alone will not do anymore,Kerry for example have moved with the times and whilst playing attractive football,they also do the dirty defensive work,that the likes of Tyrone/Armagh have been criticised for,even though those cute hoors will never admit to doing it.
His style of open football is nice to watch,and will win some games against inferior opposition,but at the very highest level in August/September he will continute to come up short,until he moves into the modern era,of no fixed positions/13 men behind the ball/cynical fouling to stop build up play etc.
Yes.
If Mayo are constant underachievers and are criticised for always failing on the big day, how can JOM be an overrated after winning 2 AIFs? Note that not only have Galway won nothing else since 1966, neither has Connacht. He has more All Irelands than Armagh and Donegal and the only living managers with more than O'Mahoney are O'Dwyer, Harte, Boylan, Heffernan & O'Connor (I may have missed some, feel free to add them).
Ye must be some mighty men to be able to trample on his achievements.
No. Every manager that ever won an AI had brilliant players but some of them won their AI's when the4 opposition maybe wasn't as great at other times in the history of the GAA. Recently Mayo have had to compete in at a time when both Kerry and Tyrone had serious teams and now that they are fading a bit an even better team is coming over the horizon from Cork. JOM has done a remarkably good job with a decent squad but entirely lacking the top of top drawer players that Tyrone, Kerry and now Cork have.
If John Maughan & Mickey Moran can take Mayo to All Ireland Finals then was hasn't O Mahony taken the current Mayo team there? (maybe the Mayo County board are still happy with what he done in 1989)
Will he be out if he doesn't at least get them there this year?
Quote from: Zulu on April 26, 2010, 08:45:25 PM
No. Every manager that ever won an AI had brilliant players but some of them won their AI's when the4 opposition maybe wasn't as great at other times in the history of the GAA. Recently Mayo have had to compete in at a time when both Kerry and Tyrone had serious teams and now that they are fading a bit an even better team is coming over the horizon from Cork. JOM has done a remarkably good job with a decent squad but entirely lacking the top of top drawer players that Tyrone, Kerry and now Cork have.
Don't forget that this is his second spell as Mayo manager, and close though he came in 1989, he didn't get an All Ireland in that spell from a Mayo team that was far superior than the team he currently has.
He deserves credit for his achievements in Leitrim and Galway, but i can't help feeling that those young Galway players made him the name he is today, because i have no doubt that they were destined to win All Irelands with or without O'Mahony, which is why i believe he was in the right place at the right time when he got that job.
Some of his gamesmanship left a sour taste in the mouth. Who can forget a Connacht Final against Mayo, when he lined up 16 players in the pre match introduction to Mary Mc Aleese in order to try and confuse Mayo as to who was actually playing....A little bit pathetic imo.
Also remember a midweek u-21 hurling championship match ,Galway v Offaly being postponed at his request because David Tierney was on the Galway Senior Football panel the following weekend, and he was afraid Tierney would get injured. It was postponed, yet Tierney never kicked a ball the following Sunday.
For what it's worth as a Rossie, i think he's trading on past glories, and is NOT the man to lead Mayo into the future.
Quote from: Shrewdness on April 26, 2010, 08:59:49 PM
Quote from: Zulu on April 26, 2010, 08:45:25 PM
No. Every manager that ever won an AI had brilliant players but some of them won their AI's when the4 opposition maybe wasn't as great at other times in the history of the GAA. Recently Mayo have had to compete in at a time when both Kerry and Tyrone had serious teams and now that they are fading a bit an even better team is coming over the horizon from Cork. JOM has done a remarkably good job with a decent squad but entirely lacking the top of top drawer players that Tyrone, Kerry and now Cork have.
Don't forget that this is his second spell as Mayo manager, and close though he came in 1989, he didn't get an All Ireland in that spell from a Mayo team that was far superior than the team he currently has.
He deserves credit for his achievements in Leitrim and Galway, but i can't help feeling that those young Galway players made him the name he is today, because i have no doubt that they were destined to win All Irelands with or without O'Mahony, which is why i believe he was in the right place at the right time when he got that job.
Some of his gamesmanship left a sour taste in the mouth. Who can forget a Connacht Final against Mayo, when he lined up 16 players in the pre match introduction to Mary Mc Aleese in order to try and confuse Mayo as to who was actually playing....A little bit pathetic imo.
Also remember a midweek u-21 hurling championship match ,Galway v Offaly being postponed at his request because David Tierney was on the Galway Senior Football panel the following weekend, and he was afraid Tierney would get injured. It was postponed, yet Tierney never kicked a ball the following Sunday.
For what it's worth as a Rossie, i think he's trading on past glories, and is NOT the man to lead Mayo into the future.
He won two AI's with that Galway team, which is a fair achievement and no team is destined to win an AI. Micko won a good few AI's with Kerry but has yet to win one with another county. Joe Kernan won't win an AI with Galway yet he brought Armagh to two in a row. You can be a brilliant manager and not win an AI if you don't have the players and he doesn't have the players in Mayo. He has got them to two national league finals and won a Connacht championship which isn't a bad record.
We seem to be aping the soccer fraternity by blaming managers for not winning x, y or z. They have a major role to play and with good team selection and tactics you can get more out of teams than what they might seem capable of but you won't win anything unless you have a certain standard of player and they have the right mental attitude. Mickey Harte gets all kinds of plaudits and he is certainly a fine manager but a team with SON, Cavanagh, Canavan, Gormley, Ricey, Jordan, Brian McGuigan etc. should have been there or there abouts.
JOM is doing as good a job as can be expected given the players. Christ, he hasn't got even one decent scoring forward abd don't tell me C Mort is, he wouldn't be next nor near the Cork team.
IMO the Turning point in John O Mahonys career
Extra-time goal clinches
title for Tribesmen
Galway 1-17
Roscommon 0-17
GALWAY manager John O'Mahony offered consolation in the promise that they would do Roscommon justice in the All-Ireland semi-final after the extra-time goal left them reeling at the wrong end of a 1-17 to 0-17 scoreline in a pulsating Connacht senior football championship final replay at Dr Hyde Park on Saturday.
Call it opportunism personified on the part of Galway centre-forward, Michael Donnellan, or a blunder on the part of Roscommon goalkeeper, Derek Thompson, but the vital score, a minute into the second half of extra-time, gave Galway the title. Thompson, who had an otherwise impeccable game, had the ball in his hand when he was surrounded by three Galway forwards, Niall Finnegan, Michael Donnellan and extra-time substitute Shay Walsh.
"It was definitely the turning point of the game,'' Finnegan insisted afterwards. "Shay Walsh has to take most of the credit for it. He robbed the goalie who was coming out with the ball and he flicked it away from him. Myself and Don were coming forward. It was a combined effort. He got the main connection on it. Donnellan made no mistake with a first-time effort to the roof of the open net as Thompson threw himself on the ground in despair.
"I think it was the pass that went wrong,'' a distraught Derek Thompson explained. "I had the ball on my chest. I can't remember what happened afterwards. I don't know whether I slipped or somebody got a hand to it or whatever. Next thing it was in the net.''
At half-time, Galway led 0-5 to 0-4 and then, 13 minutes into the second-half, Roscommon drew level through an Eddie Lohan free and they were in total control when they went 0-10 to 0-8 in front 22 minutes into the second-half. Throughout the first-half they were continuously breaking the ball at midfield, but this tactic, obviously designed to cope with the highfielding of Kevin Walsh and Seán O´ Domhnaill, only played into the hands of Seán O´g de Paor, who was having the game of his life at right half-back for Galway.
And he continued to assert himself in the second-half when his 34th minute point restored Galway's lead. Eddie Lohan, who again ended up with a total of eight points, provided the equaliser from a free 35 seconds into injury time. Jarlath Fallon, who had a quiet second-half after scoring two points in the first, got Galway off to a flying start in extra-time with the first of three points in the second minute. Nigel Dinnen equalised for Roscommon, but Galway were two points up, 0-16 to 0-14, at half-time.
John O'Mahony said he knew fitness would not be a problem for Galway. They had trained systematically.
The goal break gave Galway a five-point lead. Eddie Lohan drove over two points for Roscommon — one from a '45 — and Nigel Dineen cut the deficit to two points when he finished off a great move with just a minute left. Time ran out, however, and Michael Donnellan put the issue beyond all doubt when he closed the scoring with another great point.
At the end of it all the statistics will show that Galway hit 20 wides to 13 for Roscommon.
"We know we have to improve,'' John O'Mahony insisted. "The very people that put us up on a pedestal are the people who will knock us down at the end of the day.''
He said the lads showed a lot of character after what was said about them in the last fortnight in particular.
"We are only a crowd of young players who are working very hard and people put a lot of mantles on them that we have yet to earn, but we responded well,'' he said.
"My heart goes out to Roscommon,'' he added.
"I hope that we can go on and represent Connacht in a way that Roscommon deserve — and Mayo and Leitrim — Connacht football was the winner out there today.
He was the first to admit it was a tough game: "The turning point was when the referee blew the final whistle. There were lots of turning points. I felt in the actual drawn part of the game when Roscommon went two points up there was a turning point when we got back up level.
"The questions about the character of this team were answered in the heat of the battle out there — I am talking about five under-21s — and answered them and got back level and might have won it in ordinary time. The last fortnight we had a lot of talking and a lot of soul-searching to do. We knew Roscommon were a great team.''He said they had proved there was a lot of character in the team. They were a young team and they were learning. For many of them it was their first championship campaign and second championship for most of them."I'd like to pay tribute to older guys, men like Gary Fahy, Kevin Walsh, Ray Silke, Tomás Mannion, who have been around for a few years and have played a major part in bringing along the kids, as I call them."
He admitted that he was happy with the drawn games.
"We did not plan it that way but if we did not have them we would have been looking for challenge games today. I'm delighted that we are going in against a Derry team that will be outrageous favourites. We'll be glad to pass over the favourites tag.
"We've had it for the last few weeks, and for lads of 19, 20 and 21 to carry it is maybe asking a little bit much."
"We are all very disappointed,'' said Roscommon centre-forward, Fergal O'Donnell.
"We did our best but it just was not good enough today.
"But things are looking up. We lost players and we lost fans. We were relegated to Division Four of the National League and there was a lot of slagging.
"There was not much belief in this team. But we had belief. Today we could have won it. Let there be no doubt about it the goal was the difference.
"People might say Galway were going ahead at that point, but if that goal had not gone in we have a good fighting spirit and who knows what would have happened," he said.
"I hope that Galway will go on and do well in the remainder of the campaign and that will show how good we are.
"I reckon Sligo were a good team, Mayo were a good team. Today things did not go the way we wanted them to go, and all we can do now is wish Galway the best.
"I know we restored pride in Roscommon football but, having said that, Galway have the cup. A lot of people thought we would get well beaten today like the Clare-Waterford replay, but we did not. We are good fighters. This will be a big boost to Roscommon football. We have a lot of good young footballers in the county — lads like Eddie Lohan's brother, Gerry, and they will be serious players when they join the squad."
Scorers for Galway: M. Donnellan 1-3 (0-1 frees), J. Fallon 0-5, D. Savage 0-3, S. O´g de Paor and N. Finnegan (0-1 frees) 0-2 each and P. Joyce and S. Walsh 0-1.
Roscommon: E. Lohan 0-8 (0-7 frees), N. Dineen 0-3, F. O'Donnell and T. Grehan 0-2 each and L. Dowd and V. Glennon 0-1 each.
GALWAY: M. McNamara; T. Meehan, G. Fahy, T. Mannion; R. Silke, J. Divilly, S. O´g de Paor; K. Walsh, S. O´ Domhnaill; J. Fallon, M. Donnellan, T. Joyce; D. Savage, P. Joyce, N. Finnegan. Subs: D. Mitchell for J. Divilly; S. Walsh for T. Joyce.
ROSCOMMON: D. Thompson; D. Gavin, D. Donlon, E. Gavin; C. Heneghan, C. McDonald, M. Ryan; G. Keane, T. Ryan; D. Connellan, F. O'Donnell, E. Lohan; T. Grehan, N. Dineen, L. Dowd. Subs: D. Duggan for T. Grehan, V. Glennon for T. Ryan.
Referee: Séamus Prior (Leitrim).
P.S in the First Game in Tuam 14 man Roscommon had the game Won only for Seamus Prior to give a free in to Galway when it was a Roscommon Free >:( (Even today in Ballinamore Prior still laughs at the award of the Free )
You could probably find one of those games for every manager in every sport in the world. I seem to remember something about Alex Ferguson being on the verge of being sacked when Utd got a lucky win to keep his job and he hasn't looked back since, though he has got more than his fair share of luck since. There's thousands of others too, would Eugene McGee have an opinion piece in the Irish independent if Darby hadn't hung up that goal? We'd be asking Eugene who?
Quote from: Shrewdness on April 26, 2010, 08:59:49 PM
He deserves credit for his achievements in Leitrim and Galway, but i can't help feeling that those young Galway players made him the name he is today, because i have no doubt that they were destined to win All Irelands with or without O'Mahony,
No way. Galway and Mayo were neck and neck from 95 on. in 1998 it was a bonus to win Connacht. Getting to the final was like a dream. On the day of the match all the money was on Kildare. Very few people gave Galway a chance. Leinster fuball was superior. It was the same in 2001. Mead were going to destroy Galway again because of Leinster fuball.
If JOM had been in charge of the hurlers they would probably have beaten Tipp in 2001. Confidence on the big day is priceless. Of course Tomas Mannion was nice to have as well :)
Quote from: ross4life on April 26, 2010, 09:15:19 PM
IMO the Turning point in John O Mahonys career
Extra-time goal clinches
title for Tribesmen
Galway 1-17
Roscommon 0-17
GALWAY manager John O'Mahony offered consolation in the promise that they would do Roscommon justice in the All-Ireland semi-final after the extra-time goal left them reeling at the wrong end of a 1-17 to 0-17 scoreline in a pulsating Connacht senior football championship final replay at Dr Hyde Park on Saturday.
Call it opportunism personified on the part of Galway centre-forward, Michael Donnellan, or a blunder on the part of Roscommon goalkeeper, Derek Thompson, but the vital score, a minute into the second half of extra-time, gave Galway the title. Thompson, who had an otherwise impeccable game, had the ball in his hand when he was surrounded by three Galway forwards, Niall Finnegan, Michael Donnellan and extra-time substitute Shay Walsh.
"It was definitely the turning point of the game,'' Finnegan insisted afterwards. "Shay Walsh has to take most of the credit for it. He robbed the goalie who was coming out with the ball and he flicked it away from him. Myself and Don were coming forward. It was a combined effort. He got the main connection on it. Donnellan made no mistake with a first-time effort to the roof of the open net as Thompson threw himself on the ground in despair.
"I think it was the pass that went wrong,'' a distraught Derek Thompson explained. "I had the ball on my chest. I can't remember what happened afterwards. I don't know whether I slipped or somebody got a hand to it or whatever. Next thing it was in the net.''
At half-time, Galway led 0-5 to 0-4 and then, 13 minutes into the second-half, Roscommon drew level through an Eddie Lohan free and they were in total control when they went 0-10 to 0-8 in front 22 minutes into the second-half. Throughout the first-half they were continuously breaking the ball at midfield, but this tactic, obviously designed to cope with the highfielding of Kevin Walsh and Seán O´ Domhnaill, only played into the hands of Seán O´g de Paor, who was having the game of his life at right half-back for Galway.
And he continued to assert himself in the second-half when his 34th minute point restored Galway's lead. Eddie Lohan, who again ended up with a total of eight points, provided the equaliser from a free 35 seconds into injury time. Jarlath Fallon, who had a quiet second-half after scoring two points in the first, got Galway off to a flying start in extra-time with the first of three points in the second minute. Nigel Dinnen equalised for Roscommon, but Galway were two points up, 0-16 to 0-14, at half-time.
John O'Mahony said he knew fitness would not be a problem for Galway. They had trained systematically.
The goal break gave Galway a five-point lead. Eddie Lohan drove over two points for Roscommon — one from a '45 — and Nigel Dineen cut the deficit to two points when he finished off a great move with just a minute left. Time ran out, however, and Michael Donnellan put the issue beyond all doubt when he closed the scoring with another great point.
At the end of it all the statistics will show that Galway hit 20 wides to 13 for Roscommon.
"We know we have to improve,'' John O'Mahony insisted. "The very people that put us up on a pedestal are the people who will knock us down at the end of the day.''
He said the lads showed a lot of character after what was said about them in the last fortnight in particular.
"We are only a crowd of young players who are working very hard and people put a lot of mantles on them that we have yet to earn, but we responded well,'' he said.
"My heart goes out to Roscommon,'' he added.
"I hope that we can go on and represent Connacht in a way that Roscommon deserve — and Mayo and Leitrim — Connacht football was the winner out there today.
He was the first to admit it was a tough game: "The turning point was when the referee blew the final whistle. There were lots of turning points. I felt in the actual drawn part of the game when Roscommon went two points up there was a turning point when we got back up level.
"The questions about the character of this team were answered in the heat of the battle out there — I am talking about five under-21s — and answered them and got back level and might have won it in ordinary time. The last fortnight we had a lot of talking and a lot of soul-searching to do. We knew Roscommon were a great team.''He said they had proved there was a lot of character in the team. They were a young team and they were learning. For many of them it was their first championship campaign and second championship for most of them."I'd like to pay tribute to older guys, men like Gary Fahy, Kevin Walsh, Ray Silke, Tomás Mannion, who have been around for a few years and have played a major part in bringing along the kids, as I call them."
He admitted that he was happy with the drawn games.
"We did not plan it that way but if we did not have them we would have been looking for challenge games today. I'm delighted that we are going in against a Derry team that will be outrageous favourites. We'll be glad to pass over the favourites tag.
"We've had it for the last few weeks, and for lads of 19, 20 and 21 to carry it is maybe asking a little bit much."
"We are all very disappointed,'' said Roscommon centre-forward, Fergal O'Donnell.
"We did our best but it just was not good enough today.
"But things are looking up. We lost players and we lost fans. We were relegated to Division Four of the National League and there was a lot of slagging.
"There was not much belief in this team. But we had belief. Today we could have won it. Let there be no doubt about it the goal was the difference.
"People might say Galway were going ahead at that point, but if that goal had not gone in we have a good fighting spirit and who knows what would have happened," he said.
"I hope that Galway will go on and do well in the remainder of the campaign and that will show how good we are.
"I reckon Sligo were a good team, Mayo were a good team. Today things did not go the way we wanted them to go, and all we can do now is wish Galway the best.
"I know we restored pride in Roscommon football but, having said that, Galway have the cup. A lot of people thought we would get well beaten today like the Clare-Waterford replay, but we did not. We are good fighters. This will be a big boost to Roscommon football. We have a lot of good young footballers in the county — lads like Eddie Lohan's brother, Gerry, and they will be serious players when they join the squad."
Scorers for Galway: M. Donnellan 1-3 (0-1 frees), J. Fallon 0-5, D. Savage 0-3, S. O´g de Paor and N. Finnegan (0-1 frees) 0-2 each and P. Joyce and S. Walsh 0-1.
Roscommon: E. Lohan 0-8 (0-7 frees), N. Dineen 0-3, F. O'Donnell and T. Grehan 0-2 each and L. Dowd and V. Glennon 0-1 each.
GALWAY: M. McNamara; T. Meehan, G. Fahy, T. Mannion; R. Silke, J. Divilly, S. O´g de Paor; K. Walsh, S. O´ Domhnaill; J. Fallon, M. Donnellan, T. Joyce; D. Savage, P. Joyce, N. Finnegan. Subs: D. Mitchell for J. Divilly; S. Walsh for T. Joyce.
ROSCOMMON: D. Thompson; D. Gavin, D. Donlon, E. Gavin; C. Heneghan, C. McDonald, M. Ryan; G. Keane, T. Ryan; D. Connellan, F. O'Donnell, E. Lohan; T. Grehan, N. Dineen, L. Dowd. Subs: D. Duggan for T. Grehan, V. Glennon for T. Ryan.
Referee: Séamus Prior (Leitrim).
P.S in the First Game in Tuam 14 man Roscommon had the game Won only for Seamus Prior to give a free in to Galway when it was a Roscommon Free >:( (Even today in Ballinamore Prior still laughs at the award of the Free )
What are you on about? Ye should of never got near that final and ye thank mickey moran for that. In 1998 were 1-14 to 10 up in hyde with 5mins left, he takes of 3 of our best players on the day thinking of the connacht final and bam wallop 2-2 and we equalise. We were far superior to ros that yr and bearing in mind we threw it away that day ye had the momentum for the replay.
no hes not overrated
but he is the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons
A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.
While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.
Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.
Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.
In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.
Not Talking About Sligo V Roscommon Semi Sligonian ::) Imo John needed a turning point in his career to finally win a all Ireland & that was it!
P.S i well aware what happened in those Games i was at them & Roscommon were the better team in the Replay
Quote from: Shrewdness on April 26, 2010, 07:59:06 PM
Is Johno one of football's greatest ever managers, as evidenced by his 2 All Ireland's with Galway, and a famous 1994 Connacht Title with Leitrim??.........or in the case of Galway, was he just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time as an exceptional crop of players emerged such as Meehan's , Joyce, Donnellan, Divilly etc?.......Could most top managers have won an All Ireland with those players?
John Divilly will be delighted to make that list ahead of the likes of Ja Fallon, Sean Og, Kevin Walsh, Tomas Mannion, Paul Clancy, etc. ;D
think this thread is best left until the end of september (god willing!) or when ever we go out of the championship. Hopefully lessons will have been learned after yesterday. That is how we should judge johnno.
Quote from: ildanach on April 26, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
think this thread is best left until the end of september (god willing!) or when ever we go out of the championship. Hopefully lessons will have been learned after yesterday. That is how we should judge johnno.
and if if not this year well definitely have to examine his role if we fail next year and put him on his guard for the year after and well only give him one least chance after that
Quote from: rosnarun on April 26, 2010, 09:38:55 PM
no hes not overrated
but he is the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons
I don't know if that makes sense? If he's all that then he is overrated. It has already been claimed on this thread that previous success was due to being in the right place at the right time.
It depends who is doing the rating I suppose. I know very few people in Mayo who rate him highly - except Grannies on Midwest radio phone-ins. Or ever have. Most people down here saw him as self serving and as a mercenary. Few shed a tear after him when he was let go in 91. Many still blame him for losing the 89 final. One thing that day was his slowness to act and try and cope with a rampant Dave Barry. Yesterday O Connor running riot at 11 and no action taken. 20 years on and plus ca change. I rem as a young..ish lad the morning after 89 final, being told, by a former county captain, that he should never be let manage a Mayo team again. He s never had the tactical nous but the bus will always be spanking new and on time. And there ll be no chips with players meals.
This being Mayo things get a bit surreal and he goes and wins stuff with Leitrim and Galway, and some of his biggest wins were against us. Did he get lucky? Yeah I think so. Mayo were putrid allowing Leitrim over the line in 94. It was more about how bad Mayo were than anything Johnno did. If that didn't happen he wouldn't have got the Galway gig. Would other managers have won 2 with Galway? Likes of Val Daly or Bosco probably wouldn't but he had several top class players coming through all at the same time and a few battle hardened vets like Walsh, Mannion and Seán Óg. He won it in his first year with them. That says a lot. Likes of Donnellan, Joyce and Savage win it in their first serious championship year! And there weren't enough classy teams around to exploit a few awful journey men. Or canny managers for that matter. Johnno was at home in the era of Paudí, Billy, Boylan and Micko but the others had too much savvy for him. The game has moved on.
I don't think he can be rated over one match which seems to be what the OP is really asking. I was with a Mayo man in Croker yesterday and I felt the man's pain. Cork are a class side though so I don't read too much into the result. Certainly Mayo have a lot to do as was evidenced yesterday but it's like this, the lessons they learned yesterday will bode well for them later in the year. In my opinion, Cork are the team to beat in Croker in August this year
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on April 26, 2010, 11:03:26 PM
I don't think he can be rated over one match which seems to be what the OP is really asking. I was with a Mayo man in Croker yesterday and I felt the man's pain. Cork are a class side though so I don't read too much into the result. Certainly Mayo have a lot to do as was evidenced yesterday but it's like this, the lessons they learned yesterday will bode well for them later in the year. In my opinion, Cork are the team to beat in Croker in August this year
Now that is what you would expect to happen but I wouldn't hold my breath to be honest. I have my doubts they will learn anything. Maybe a new psychologist might work! Excuse the cynicism but we've been here before with Johnno. The glaring deficiencies in Mayo s game yesterday are nothing new. Since he came back we ve had to suffer some of the worst goings over we ever experienced to Galway and Derry. And don't start about Meath last year. That was the game that sent Mayo people for cover. Many still had the hurt of 96 and expected a last stand from this new Johnno team. What we got was watery capitulation. This from a man who slighted Mickey Moran when he said he would love to be preparing a Mayo team for an AI final. In all my years I have never seen Mayo people abandon the team as they have done last few years. There was nobody at yesterday s game. In spite of finishing top div 1 nobody trusts this set up( after yesterday you can see why). Sadly the most common attitude about to the county team now is mostly ambivalence, embarrassment and even hostility. And this is from football people.
I know what you mean moysider, my mate is from Charlestown, he was telling me about the politics of everythng there. Some of what is going on is plain stupid, if a player is good enough they should be on the panel and if they deserve to start they shouuld start. At this point, it's hard to know what Mayo's options are
Quote from: moysider on April 26, 2010, 11:24:04 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on April 26, 2010, 11:03:26 PM
I don't think he can be rated over one match which seems to be what the OP is really asking. I was with a Mayo man in Croker yesterday and I felt the man's pain. Cork are a class side though so I don't read too much into the result. Certainly Mayo have a lot to do as was evidenced yesterday but it's like this, the lessons they learned yesterday will bode well for them later in the year. In my opinion, Cork are the team to beat in Croker in August this year
In all my years I have never seen Mayo people abandon the team as they have done last few years. There was nobody at yesterday s game. In spite of finishing top div 1 nobody trusts this set up( after yesterday you can see why). Sadly the most common attitude about to the county team now is mostly ambivalence, embarrassment and even hostility. And this is from football people.
Seemed to be a very poor turn out at the game alright. Was definitely more people there from Down and Armagh and half of them cleared off after the first game. You expect the Cork footballers to have a poor enough following but Mayo nearly always bring a big crowd.
ross4life, geez get over it. Refs make wrong decisions all the time. If Roscommon were good enough to win an AI in 1998, they would have beaten Galway in the replay. They didnt and and they didnt deserve to.
I dont think O'Mahony is over rated. Sure, He took over Galway at a particualrly good time. But then again, Val Daly took over Galway in '97 and didnt use the players to the same effect as O'Mahony did in '98.
I also dont think he has done a terrible job with Mayo and actually think they are a far better team than they showed on Sunday. The time to judge O'Mahony's tenure as Mayo boss could be at the end of this year
Quote from: mckieran on April 27, 2010, 12:42:41 AM
ross4life, geez get over it. Refs make wrong decisions all the time. If Roscommon were good enough to win an AI in 1998, they would have beaten Galway in the replay. They didnt and and they didnt deserve to.
another chap taking me up Wrong! Roscommon deserved to win but that's not my point! some managers needs that kind of moment to turn things there way! John got that you can't say he didn't
Quote from: Zapatista on April 26, 2010, 10:34:11 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 26, 2010, 09:38:55 PM
no hes not overrated
but he is the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons
I don't know if that makes sense? If he's all that then he is overrated. It has already been claimed on this thread that previous success was due to being in the right place at the right time.
not over rated in my view because for from a year before he got the job it was obvious he was going to be a disaster and nothing he has done in the mean time has changed my view. he is yesterdays man we may as well have appointed Eugene Mcgee
Quote from: ross4life on April 26, 2010, 08:24:52 PM
i wonder what John would have won if Derek Thompson didn't pass the Ball to Michael Donnellan in 1998 or if the backdoor wasn't introduced in 2001 what if indeed?
What would have happened if Galway hadnt kicked countless wides in those 2 games they dominanted in 1998? Or if they hadnt been decimated by injuries early on in 01. When both teams met in the QF, Galway ran out easy winners i seem to remember.
Nobody can take away his success with Leitrim, but to be honest, I would have won an All Ireland with a team that contained Fallon, Mannion, De Paor, Walsh, Joyce, Finnegan and Donnellan. In fact, theres grounds to say that he shouls have won more than 2 All Irelands with that crop of players
Not sure if he's overrated but all i do know is that Paidi would have won the National league at the weekend if he had been over Mayo ;)
Quote from: shaund10 on April 27, 2010, 09:03:06 AM
Nobody can take away his success with Leitrim, but to be honest, I would have won an All Ireland with a team that contained Fallon, Mannion, De Paor, Walsh, Joyce, Finnegan and Donnellan. In fact, theres grounds to say that he shouls have won more than 2 All Irelands with that crop of players
I wouldn't be too sure about that. People forget that Galway had carried a stench of failure about them just as bad as anything you could say about Mayo, e.g. losing to 12 man Dublin. Under O'Mahony they got to the point where they shattered the aura of invincibility that Sean Boylan's Meath carried around.
I just want to congratulate all concerned that we have got to four pages on this topic and the phrase "attractive football" has been used only twice (in the one post, as it happens). Shame on the Cavan person from Ballyhaise responsible, whose username I won't mention but well done everyone else.
He was also the manager of St Brigids in 1997 when they won there first county title in 28 years and involved as selector when they won the connaught title in 2006.
Quote from: seafoid on April 26, 2010, 09:23:07 PM
No way. Galway and Mayo were neck and neck from 95 on. in 1998 it was a bonus to win Connacht. Getting to the final was like a dream. On the day of the match all the money was on Kildare. Very few people gave Galway a chance. Leinster fuball was superior. It was the same in 2001. Mead were going to destroy Galway again because of Leinster fuball.
I certainly remember Kildare being favourites to win the All-Ireland. They were very confident, post-match parties booked etc. But were Galway really treating Connacht as a bonus? When I think of the ultimately successful minnows who had very close shaves (Ross Carr's equalising point in 1991, Clare late goal against Cork in 1995), it depresses the hell out of me
I don't think any GAA inter-county football manager is over-rated. Tough job.
I dont think Johnno is over rated. His success with Galway, Leitrim & Mayo ('89) not to mention his various club involvements are testament to his ability as a manager and cant be all down to luck. He always comes across as organised, intelligent and professional in his media utterances and I've rarely heard any former players bad mouth him. He just brought Mayo to a league final where they were beaten by a hardened, experienced and very good Cork side. The championship has'nt even started and I'm amazed at how much negativity has been directed towards him and his methods. Mayo simply dont have the players at the moment to win an AI and thats not his fault but I still think he can get them to win connacht and make the AI semis this season. That being said he did appear to take the Mayo job for "political" reasons at the time and you would question how he can juggle the committments of a TD with that of an intercounty manager. But his body of work to date stands the test of time and I think it's completely unfair to suggest he's over rated.
Quoteanother chap taking me up Wrong! Roscommon deserved to win but that's not my point! some managers needs that kind of moment to turn things there way! John got that you can't say he didn't
Am not taking you up wrong - You are whinging about a refereeing decison from 12 years ago - Get over it. If Roscommon were good enough that year, they would have taken Galway in the replay in Roscommon - They were not good enough.
You could point to some moment of "luck" from absolutely every manager. But those Roscommon matches came after he brought Mayo to an AI in 89 and won Connacht with Leitrim in '94. So I dont really see your point... He was already a very respected manager by then
O'Mahony also brought St.Nathys to a connacht final (Cant remember if they won) which is quite an achievement as they are not exactly a renowned football school.
Biggest fault of O'Mahony is how slow he is to make changes - He had me tearing my hair out back in his Galway days when he just wouldnt make a change until it was too late
Quote from: ildanach on April 26, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
think this thread is best left until the end of september (god willing!) or when ever we go out of the championship. Hopefully lessons will have been learned after yesterday. That is how we should judge johnno.
It's taken me until this morning to see the merit in what you are saying. After more than 50 years as an incorrigible Mayo supporter, I hope I can be pardoned if I my world goes a bit pear-shaped every time the senior team implodes on a big day. Through dint of long practice, I've managed to cut the recovery time down considerably but the blues are never absent completely- not now and probably not at any time in the future either.
Like it or lump it, Mayo will have John O'Mahony in charge for the coming championships.
As my good friend, Tubberman puts it in his sig, "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." If that is indeed true, John O'Mahony is due for canonisation any day now and so are the team and its long-suffering followers. We had a bad-hair day on Sunday; no doubt about that. Still, we had a fine league campaign also; equally, no doubt about that.
Now, if Johnno can take heed of the lessons that plainly need to be learned, he will deserve all the glory that's there for the earning. Mind you, I'd feel he thinks the same as me: you can stuff all the glory that's going if you happen to win even once.
I don't accept the line of thought that says Armagh or Sligo would steamroll Mayo at the moment either.
Neither of them had to face up to a pack of revved up langers last Sunday like Mayo did. I very much doubt that the pick of the pair of them, and you can throw in Down and Antrim also, would come out of the scrap any better.
Mayo played in a much more competitive league than any of them and made it to the final when they had been shortlisted for relegation at the outset. I think most Mayo supporters agree that O'Mahony was putting out the best side available last to him last Sunday. The most charitable conclusion must be that he still has some distance to go if Mayo are to win an All Ireland with him at the helm.
Is he overrated as a manager?
I feel he probably is but, against that, too much is being expected from him. I'll reserve judgement until I see what happens in the upcoming championships. IMO, the fans have to get behind him as they don't have any other option. Because of his inflexible approach, he hasn't many options either. It is clear that he doesn't tolerate individualism of any sort; it seems to be very much a case of, "My way or the highway," with him.
As with most aspects of life, there are pros and cons to this.
"Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working."That's the negative consequence, as Moysider puts it and I concur 100%. The present Mayo team is without leaders. They are a fine bunch of foot soldiers alright but there is no serious team in the land that doesn't have a number of strong characters throughout the field. Those are the men others look to for guidance when push comes to shove. I had really expected to find some of the senior players leading by example by now but, sadly, that isn't happening. I think those lads may have lost their bottle as a result of too many implosions in recent years but I'd also say the manager's overall approach could be a contributory factor as well.
Put it this way; if I were to be appointed as Mayo's sports psychologist, the first ass I'd have planted on my couch would be John O'Mahony's!
Sligo will be looking forward to june with great expectations, i cannot wait myself to see what MAYO will do on the day. Mayo will win no Sam this year but that reverse on Sunday should sting enough of them to do damage to a contender or two before bowing out, if not then I think some will move on with their lives without Mayo and jom will consider his position. Nobody in Mayo expects Sam in 2010, all we would like is effort on the day, and Mayo players owe themselves bigtime to perform and cut this wimping out in front of the whole country.And if it looks like we will be cleaned out then do not give them room to shoot, pack the defense with 12 men, anything but this being made look like a junior team by a team that was tamed easily themselves a few months ago.
Quote from: Beard on April 26, 2010, 09:41:33 PM
A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.
While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.
Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.
Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.
In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.
This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.
Quote from: boojangles on April 27, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
Quote from: Beard on April 26, 2010, 09:41:33 PM
A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.
While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.
Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.
Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.
In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.
This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.
true but the other 3 backs more than made up for them with meehan, sean og and mannion then throw in a good midfeild and 6 fairly handy forwards so at the end of the day they had 11 really good players and a captain who could speak very good irish
Quote from: boojangles on April 27, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
Quote from: Beard on April 26, 2010, 09:41:33 PM
A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.
While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.
Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.
Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.
In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.
This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.
Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.
Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.
Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.
JOM has made the mistake of trying to come back and for the wrong reasons. If his reason was a burning desire to bring Sam back to his native county or like Micko an unquenchable love of the game :D then it might be forgiven but his current involvement was driven by a political agenda. And I think Mayo are suffering because of this. But now that he is in the job he cannot afford to step down either before he delivers an AI or the next election.
In his first stint with Mayo and his involvement with Leitrim and Galway he proved he had managerial skills – always thought he got teams organised, playing to their strengths and believing in themselves. Maybe was a bit better with outside counties in the belief area than with his own but that is often the case. I concede he did have some good fortune along the way especially in 1998 but a lot of other managers also got a bit of luck that their predecessors did not have. As Matt points out you really have to play under a manager to rate him and from what I know the Leitrim and Galway players (and St Brigid's) rated him. I suppose anyone that manages to win 2 Ais with a CHB like Ray Silke must have something going for them!!
However since his second coming in Mayo I cannot see what he has brought or is bringing to the team that Maughan or M&M did not. He was instrumental first in Maughan stepping down by giving the impression that he was ready to come back and then changed his mind. When M&M surprisingly brought Mayo to an AI and in doing so beat Dublin in a genuine thrilling contest it would have been expected that they would get another chance. However naked politics came to the fore and Johnno's electoral chances were considered greater if he took up the challenge of managing Mayo. He duly got elected but Mayo found themselves beaten in the first round by Galway in the middle of an election campaign. And while Mayo continue to be a top 7 or 8 team since then it is hard to know how much of the credit should go to JOM – in my view they have a very good panel players, considerable strength in depth and there is no reason that they should not be aiming for AI honours. I don't think though that JOM is the man to do it. First I think he has not the time as the jobs of TD and manager are both time consuming. Second I think his best years in management are behind him and Mayo would be better off with someone like Noel Connelly in charge and if they want to use Johnno as some sort of advisor. One of his failures(alluded to by other posters) is his failure to develop leaders and to develop individuals. In fact with McDonald, Nallen and Brady gone Mayo have less leaders now than 3 or 4 years ago.
Last Sunday's loss was bad for Mayo – more the nature of it than the actual loss. All they need now is an election to be called in June in the run up to the Sligo game!!! Actually I think they will beat Sligo and win Connacht but unless he gets a sudden return of the good fortune of '98 then the AI will remain elusive. A pity as I believe Mayo have players as good as any county have.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 27, 2010, 04:48:35 PM
Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.
Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.
Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.
Galway wouldn't have won without him. Very surprised to see him mentioned as a weakness, how many counties would take him at his peak now? Especially Mayo.
Johno also managed Mayo to an All-Ireland U21 title in 83. Even if he never wins another thing, his record is impressive.
Quote from: Turlough O Carolan on April 27, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Johno also managed Mayo to an All-Ireland U21 title in 83. Even if he never wins another thing, his record is impressive.
And this one.
QuoteA stunning first-half display saw a rampant Galway completely overwhelm their Dublin counterparts to set up a convincing 0-15 to 0-07 victory in the All-Ireland Under-21 football final at Portlaoise's O'Moore Stadium. With captain Joe Bergin driving the team forward from midfield and Michael Meehan clinical in attack, The Tribesmen held an amazing 0-08 to 0-01 interval lead following a one-sided first-half. Despite a significant improvement from The Dubs after the break, the John O'Mahony led Connacht champions always had enough class in reserve to seal a deserved victory following a disappointingly one-sided contest.
Bergin, who has been a key player in O'Mahony's senior team, led by example with an authoritative, all-action display which deservedly earned him the Man of the Match award. However, he was ably assisted by Kieran Fitzgerald and Matthew Clancy, while Meehan's impressive tally of five points was equally crucial in securing Galway's first U-21 title for almost 30 years.
Galway were five points up with just 14 minutes gone as Dublin, despite a number of Leinster senior medal winners in their ranks, failed to find any rhythm or resistance in the opening exchanges. Indeed, the highly fancied Dubs only registered their first score of a largely fruitless afternoon with 25 minutes gone through Alan Brogan.
That failed to provide the spark for deflated Dublin, and although the probing of Brogan and Thomas Quinn gave them a glimmer of optimism during a more balanced second period, there was never any doubting the destination of this year's title as Galway ran out convincing winners in the end.
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2010, 04:57:05 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 27, 2010, 04:48:35 PM
Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.
Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.
Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.
Galway wouldn't have won without him. Very surprised to see him mentioned as a weakness, how many counties would take him at his peak now? Especially Mayo.
Yeah, Gary Fahy was a pretty good full back, especially in the late 90's. Divillly played well in the latter stages of the '98 championship. As for Silke.....he collected the cups and spoke well.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 27, 2010, 04:48:35 PM
Quote from: boojangles on April 27, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
Quote from: Beard on April 26, 2010, 09:41:33 PM
A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.
While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.
Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.
Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.
In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.
This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.
Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.
Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.
Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.
I agree with those comments about Fahy, very underrated and while not a sparkler - as was pointed out - How many times did he get cleaned out (apart from God - but then again who didn't he destroy).
One interesting point about both Divilly and Silke is that - while on 'average' or over their whole IC career they might not have had amazing performances - the years that Galway won something and did well both those stood up and often had critical games for Galway.
Not to mention the supporting cast wasn't half bad either!
It's not true to say that nobody in Mayo believed in O'Mahony, as Moysider said in one of the other threads. I believed in him.
I remember listening to Johnno's radio show streamed on Mid-West in my Dublin exile in 2005 or so, and feeling like a member of the French resistance listening to DeGaulle during the war.
O'Mahony's had the track record in his previous posts. He had. Whatever the philosopher's stone was, O'Mahony appeared to have it. He'd achieved, in difficult conditions with three different counties.
And then finally got the job. And then he started spinning, and I started to wonder: have I been sold a pup here?
In 2007, Mayo bit the bullet against Derry after a League campaign very similar to this year's. Fair enough – first year in charge, legacy issues, let's wait and see.
In 2008, the McDonald thing broke. Instead of coming out and saying what was going on, O'Mahony tried to put the thing under the carpet on the basis that the media-reticent McDonald would hold his whist. But the outraged and hurt McDonald didn't, and O'Mahony ended up doing a face-saving interview on MWR the morning the Indo published their McDonald interview, with Jean-Jacques Humbert of the Resistance listening aghast here in the office. 2008 was a so-so season – not great, but not disastrous either. Still wait and see.
In 2009, O'Mahony had built his own team and won the Connacht title. Things were looking up. But the freeze against Meath was as bad as anything we'd seen in the bad old days, and O'Mahony was not being asked the questions in the media that the supporters wanted to know – about his initial team selection and the decisions made on the line when things started to go pear-shaped.
There was a lot of chat about team-building in the league this year but that didn't happen either. What actually happened was that Mayo hammered a Galway team that were weak as kittens due to their Joe Kernan fitness regime not having a footnote for giving Mayo a game in February, and then kept that team all through the league. Who here can make a stab at naming the XV that will start against Sligo? Clarkie in goals, McGarrity in midfield and after that I couldn't tell you. What's built there?
There was this talk about sports psychologists in the aftermath of Meath. If so, why did we see the exact same problems replicated against Cork as we saw against Meath? The caught-in-the-headlights freeze on the pitch and on the sidelines, the lack of pride and direction and leadership.
We've had four years of teambuilding. What do we have? An overweight and undercoached Aidan O'Shea, Tom Parsons broken and looking doomed, no place found for Aidan Campbell or Michael Conroy.
And nowhere is O'Mahony being asked to account for this. The great Ross Matt says he's an accomplished media performer but the media are not asking Johnno the questions that the people of Mayo want to know. Why no subs Johnno? What's happened Parsons Johnno? Have you anything to say to console your people Johnno?
The national media won't ask him because they don't care what happens Mayo football. They just need copy, and Johnno is always willing to give interviews. The local media daren't ask him because Johnno does not care for the thinking of un-Johnno thoughts, and the Board clearly don't give a continental feck as long as he holds a third seat in Mayo for Fine Gael.
Johnno has successfully spun the line that he can only tell the players what to do, and it's up to themselves after that. If they win, they listened, and if they lose, they didn't. Heads Johnno wins, tails the players lose.
And I'm sick of being asked to believe this rubbish when the facts are clearly at variance with the spin. Sick of it. Johnno's record with Mayo, Leitrim and Galway can never be taken away from him, but he looks like a man whom time has passed by now. I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think I am. I really don't.
Faraor tá an ceart agat Iolar!!
Aontaím le Tatler agua Iolar ... Bhí a lá aige.
Started off enjoying this thread till I came across mention of the Aughna fcukin Sheelin Red headed *******
We will never get over the deliberate downing of a team by a biased %%%%%%%%%%%%
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Rossfan on April 27, 2010, 05:57:03 PM
Aontaím le Tatler agua Iolar ... Bhí a lá aige.
Started off enjoying this thread till I came across mention of the Aughna fcukin Sheelin Red headed *******
We will never get over the deliberate downing of a team by a biased %%%%%%%%%%%%
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I guess you talking about Seamus Prior! others Fan's won't know what where talking about! but Us Rossies will NEVER forgive or Forget
I refuse to even mention that "nice man's" name. >:( >:( >:(
We can get over Relegation to D4, Relegation to D 3, hammerings in bloody Castlebar, having Maughtan as manager, but that day of infamy where a ref decided he couldnt let Galway be knocked out of the championship ........... >:(
I thought that in the drawn game between Galway and Roscommon in '98 Prior had made his mind up quite early on that he was making a draw out of the match. I remember him pulling Donnellan for a foul pass after he put someone through on goal and it was never a foul pass. He was always making a draw of it, it didn't matter what team got ahead at the end of the match, he would have levelled up the game.
To my mind I think O'Mahony's record speaks for itself but maybe time has caught up with him in the way it did with Sean Boylan. Will still be grateful for him for what he did for Galway. I don't think anybody could have won an All-Ireland with that team. It's easy to forget that Kevin Walsh was not rated in Galway prior to '98 and a lot of people would have had Ja and Michael Donnellan at midfield taking away from the forward line. And he placed Padraic Joyce at full forward where most of his underage career was played at wing-forward.
I think this thread reminds me of "he is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy" :)
Quote from: Rossfan on April 27, 2010, 06:38:08 PM
I refuse to even mention that "nice man's" name. >:( >:( >:(
We can get over Relegation to D4, Relegation to D 3, hammerings in bloody Castlebar, having Maughtan as manager, but that day of infamy where a ref decided he couldnt let Galway be knocked out of the championship ........... >:(
i Met him in person since & his laugh still angers me >:(
Quote from: Logan on April 27, 2010, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 27, 2010, 04:48:35 PM
Quote from: boojangles on April 27, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
Quote from: Beard on April 26, 2010, 09:41:33 PM
A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.
While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.
Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.
Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.
In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.
This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.
Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.
Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.
Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.
I agree with those comments about Fahy, very underrated and while not a sparkler - as was pointed out - How many times did he get cleaned out (apart from God - but then again who didn't he destroy).
One interesting point about both Divilly and Silke is that - while on 'average' or over their whole IC career they might not have had amazing performances - the years that Galway won something and did well both those stood up and often had critical games for Galway.
Not to mention the supporting cast wasn't half bad either!
I think that it is a testament to O'Mahonys man management that he got the best out of the lesser players on the big day and crucially he also got teams to peak at the right time in the championship.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 27, 2010, 01:47:30 PM
Is he overrated as a manager?
I feel he probably is but, against that, too much is being expected from him.
IMO, the fans have to get behind him as they don't have any other option.
"If you had asked me even three or four years ago would I be here, I'd have said 'no' but most things in my life I've done because I've been asked to do them. Schools football, club football, intercounty football, refereeing, politics. I see these things as challenges you take up, as services you offer, as help you give and politics was no different."
"Is he the best manager in Gaelic football? Other than Mick O'Dwyer there's no one else who's guided three different counties to provincial titles. Sure, Mayo and Galway were always expected to win a couple just as O'Dwyer was expected to dominate with Kerry but his victory with Leitrim in 1994 was as impressive as anything O'Dwyer managed with Kildare or Laois. As were the couple of All Irelands with Galway in 1998 and 2001. As were the under-21 All Ireland titles with the big two in Connacht. There's no definitive answer as to which tops the list, it's just wherever either man has traipsed, success has sprouted."http://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/jun/22/relishing-a-brave-new-world/
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 07:15:30 PM
While I am not a big fan of JOM some of IolarCoisCuain points need addressing.
An overweight and undercoached Aidan O'Shea - We are giving out about small players, AOS is a big man he does not need to be in peak condition until championship are you sure he is overweight?
I don't know. I never lifted him. I heard a guy in the crowd ahead of me saying "hasn't O'Shea a big arse for a young lad?" to his mate and it kind of stuck in my head because I enjoy a spake. I'm not dogmatic on this one one way or the other, to be honest.
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 07:15:30 PM
No place found for Aidan Campbell or Michael Conroy. - Mike Conroy only home from Australia having not kicked a ball for 8 months. Aidan Campbell has disciplinary issues why was he not played in the U21 all Ireland semi final. Let him prove himself in Division 3 with Swinford.
Is it not a manager's job to deal with disciplinary issues rather than just chucking a man in the bin?
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 07:15:30 PM
Who here can make a stab at naming the XV that will start against Sligo? - 12 or 13 of the team that will line out are well known to anyone with a passing interest in Mayo Football.
I'll tell you what - we're all sportsmen here. I will bet you €100 that you can't name 12 of the starting XV against Sligo in their correct positions. Money goes to Cancer Care West: https://www.cancercarewest.ie/.
We'll get a moderator to volunteer to hold the money, and you agree to post your team here before the end of next week, 5 o'clock May 7th. I'm not even asking for a correct team now - I'm only asking them for your own low number, 12, and their positions. If they are "well known to anyone with a passing interest in Mayo football" as you say, it'll be like taking candy from a baby. You'll do a good deed by a charity that deserves support, and you'll put a wiseguy like me smiling on the other side of his face. What do you say?
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 07:15:30 PM
By the way can you tell me who will start for Kerry in the first round of Munster, or who will start for Dublin in Leinster.
Haven't a bog. Don't care either. I tend to pay more attention to Mayo. Kerry and Dublin can paddle their own canoes. Maybe someone from there can tell us - maybe 12 to 13 of their teams are well known to anyone with a passing interest in football.
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 07:15:30 PM
It is time we get behind JOM and the players and leave the negative stuff until the championship is over.
You know Redcol, with the greatest of respect, the fact that you think there will be negative stuff when the Championship is over tells me that you're just as worried about the team as I am. You see it as disloyal to mention these concerns when the Championship is looming. I don't. I believe in freedom of speech and honest opinions honestly held. I stand over everything I wrote here, with the possible exception of mentioning players by name. I do regret that. But I am sick, sore and tired of being spun and told to buy a glass hammer.
Anyway - what do you say about the bet? Name a XV here by May 7th, and if you have twelve of fifteen correct, in their starting positions, I'll donate €100 to Cancer Care West and I'll do it with a song in my heart. If not, you stump up the dough. What do you say?
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 07:55:19 PM
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Great, that's just what we need. A Roscommon style 'sack the manager after every bad defeat' regime.
I'm as disappointed as anyone after Sunday and I do feel the sideline need to hold up their hands for their part in the collapse, but changing the manager now would be lunacy.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 27, 2010, 06:38:08 PM
I refuse to even mention that "nice man's" name. >:( >:( >:(
We can get over Relegation to D4, Relegation to D 3, hammerings in bloody Castlebar, having Maughtan as manager, but that day of infamy where a ref decided he couldnt let Galway be knocked out of the championship ........... >:(
I think it was the same, ahem, person, who was on the whistle the day in Markievicz when we got a late goal (our 3rd) to ruin the script and go one point up. Similarly to above he gave a phantom free to Galway for an alleged foul on PJ and back down to Tuam it was for our usual kicking.
Even Eddie Neary in his pomp couldn't measure down to that lad.
You know what does my head in, and Iolar has pointed it out in his brilliant post is the local media won't hear any criticism levelled at all. >:( Whether it's MWR's lack of common sense to read out so-called 'bad-texts' or what but it has to be the most cringeworthy broadcasting. She (Angelina) will only read out nice things about the Mayo team and will hear none of it if it is putting them down. Some negative comments coming in there' FFS why is there negative comments Angelina? >:( The team have performed woefully yet again and you haven't the guts to call out negative comments about anything at all. My sister was working on Sunday morning at home and she couldn't believe it when they went to a song instead of reading out negative stuff. To me MWR are another shower of FG backed gombeens and just like the Mayo Co Board will say no wrong nor do no wrong with O'Mahony at the helm. >:(
Rant over.
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2010, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 07:55:19 PM
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Great, that's just what we need. A Roscommon style 'sack the manager after every bad defeat' regime.
We Sack Managers after every bad Defeat REALLY?.... how about going 5 years without winning a championship match in Ireland
I know one thing for sure if a manager got us to a All Ireland he wouldn't be Sacked like Mickey Moran was with ye!
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2010, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 07:55:19 PM
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Great, that's just what we need. A Roscommon style 'sack the manager after every bad defeat' regime.
I'm as disappointed as anyone after Sunday and I do feel the sideline need to hold up their hands for their part in the collapse, but changing the manager now would be lunacy.
Saying that I'm not sure that O'Mahony is the man for the job doesn't mean I'm calling for him to be sacked Muppet.
Lots of times people are called in for a chat with the boss and told to smarten up. That doesn't mean they're going to get the bullet.
Do you know what I'd like Muppet? If Mayo aren't good enough, I can deal with that. I've dealt with it all my life. I'd just like O'Mahony to be honest with me and my fellow football fans, and stop spinning about positivity and if you're not with me you're not with Mayo and all this crack.
I wish he'd stop insulting my intelligence by talking this rubbish. I don't expect him to hang players out to dry and blame them, but I do wish he was more honest in his answers.
I was really hopeful when I heard that the panel had been dealing with that choke against Meath, so seeing them choke again was particularly distressing. Which is why I wanted Johnno to tell me if he thinks his psychologist is any damn good if they're making the same mistakes. And I wish that the media would ask him the questions that we're asking here. None of this, not a bit of it, the same as saying I want him sacked, and it's unfair to say it is.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2010, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 07:55:19 PM
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Great, that's just what we need. A Roscommon style 'sack the manager after every bad defeat' regime.
I'm as disappointed as anyone after Sunday and I do feel the sideline need to hold up their hands for their part in the collapse, but changing the manager now would be lunacy.
Saying that I'm not sure that O'Mahony is the man for the job doesn't mean I'm calling for him to be sacked Muppet.
Lots of times people are called in for a chat with the boss and told to smarten up. That doesn't mean they're going to get the bullet.
Do you know what I'd like Muppet? If Mayo aren't good enough, I can deal with that. I've dealt with it all my life. I'd just like O'Mahony to be honest with me and my fellow football fans, and stop spinning about positivity and if you're not with me you're not with Mayo and all this crack.
I wish he'd stop insulting my intelligence by talking this rubbish. I don't expect him to hang players out to dry and blame them, but I do wish he was more honest in his answers.
I was really hopeful when I heard that the panel had been dealing with that choke against Meath, so seeing them choke again was particularly distressing. Which is why I wanted Johnno to tell me if he thinks his psychologist is any damn good if they're making the same mistakes. And I wish that the media would ask him the questions that we're asking here. None of this, not a bit of it, the same as saying I want him sacked, and it's unfair to say it is.
Delivered like a true football manager. ;D
Good read Iolar, a man passionate about the subject of GAA
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 27, 2010, 08:09:56 PM
You know what does my head in, and Iolar has pointed it out in his brilliant post is the local media won't hear any criticism levelled at all. >:( Whether it's MWR's lack of common sense to read out so-called 'bad-texts' or what but it has to be the most cringeworthy broadcasting. She (Angelina) will only read out nice things about the Mayo team and will hear none of it if it is putting them down. Some negative comments coming in there' FFS why is there negative comments Angelina? >:( The team have performed woefully yet again and you haven't the guts to call out negative comments about anything at all. My sister was working on Sunday morning at home and she couldn't believe it when they went to a song instead of reading out negative stuff. To me MWR are another shower of FG backed gombeens and just like the Mayo Co Board will say no wrong nor do no wrong with O'Mahony at the helm. >:(
Rant over.
What?? Rant over?
Arrah, shag it; and I thought you were only starting to rev her up! ;D
Go on; take a deep breath or two and let rip again!
Iorlar, I will name 12 lads that will start on the team, I wont name positions you only could name two players who you felt were sure of their places, I have no problem giving 100 euro to cancer care west if your game.
Is it not a manager's job to deal with disciplinary issues rather than just chucking a man in the bin? - He has dealt with it he is not on the panel.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2010, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 07:55:19 PM
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Great, that's just what we need. A Roscommon style 'sack the manager after every bad defeat' regime.
I'm as disappointed as anyone after Sunday and I do feel the sideline need to hold up their hands for their part in the collapse, but changing the manager now would be lunacy.
Saying that I'm not sure that O'Mahony is the man for the job doesn't mean I'm calling for him to be sacked Muppet.
Lots of times people are called in for a chat with the boss and told to smarten up. That doesn't mean they're going to get the bullet.
Do you know what I'd like Muppet? If Mayo aren't good enough, I can deal with that. I've dealt with it all my life. I'd just like O'Mahony to be honest with me and my fellow football fans, and stop spinning about positivity and if you're not with me you're not with Mayo and all this crack.
I wish he'd stop insulting my intelligence by talking this rubbish. I don't expect him to hang players out to dry and blame them, but I do wish he was more honest in his answers.
I was really hopeful when I heard that the panel had been dealing with that choke against Meath, so seeing them choke again was particularly distressing. Which is why I wanted Johnno to tell me if he thinks his psychologist is any damn good if they're making the same mistakes. And I wish that the media would ask him the questions that we're asking here. None of this, not a bit of it, the same as saying I want him sacked, and it's unfair to say it is.
I'm not sure what you want him to do there Iolar, his public utterances are made to different groups, the Mayo supporters, his opponents, his players and the general GAA and sporting public. He has to be careful about what he says as he would be particularly wary of how his own players and opposition managers/players would take things.
I also don't think last Sunday was anything like the Meath game, Meath are not better than Mayo, Cork are significantly better and showed it, simple as. It should also be remembered that Mayo lost both Kilcoyne and O'Shea (their best forwards on the day) against Meath so they were certainly unlucky that day.
I thought Mayo did quite well in many respects last Sunday, they just met a team that would beat them 10 times out of 10.
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2010, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 07:55:19 PM
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Great, that's just what we need. A Roscommon style 'sack the manager after every bad defeat' regime.
I'm as disappointed as anyone after Sunday and I do feel the sideline need to hold up their hands for their part in the collapse, but changing the manager now would be lunacy.
Every game ?
the f**ker has been there 3 years and with each year mayo look futher away from an all Ireland win.
he has run out of excuses
Quote
By the way can you tell me who will start for Kerry in the first round of Munster, or who will start for Dublin in Leinster.
not the 1st roung but i bet id name 12 of the kerry men that would play in next year all Ireland final should they qualify
Let me ask this of the Mayo lads who are complaining about JOM, what exactly is he doing wrong and how would you improve it?
M&M and Maughan also got dogs abuse and they also did quite well, could it be simply that Mayo don't have teh players and no manager would win them an AI at the moment?
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 09:49:53 PM
Iorlar, I will name 12 lads that will start on the team, I wont name positions you only could name two players who you felt were sure of their places, I have no problem giving 100 euro to cancer care west if your game.
Is it not a manager's job to deal with disciplinary issues rather than just chucking a man in the bin? - He has dealt with it he is not on the panel.
I'll repeat the conditions of the bet RedCol. I claimed that only two players, Clarke and McGarrity, are sure of their shirts - 1 and 9 respectively. You claimed that "12 or 13 of the team that will line out are well known to anyone with a passing interest in Mayo Football."
So, for you to win, you list the team, 1-15, and the names next to them. You don't have to get all fifteen right. You only have to get twelve names to match their numbers and I'll shell out the hundred bucks to Cancer Care West. They have to match the shirts for the bet to have action - like, you can't stick the Mort in goals, you know? Where players play is one of the big questions we're debating here, because there is a question about players being played out of position. What do you say?
YEP! jonno has really changed things around at mayo, they used to be losers and chokers, but now they they're chokers and losers. heard that on newstalk. thats a great cork side theres no disgrace in getting beat there. they stuffed Armagh comprehensively
Quote from: Zulu on April 27, 2010, 09:53:50 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2010, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 07:55:19 PM
By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.
Great, that's just what we need. A Roscommon style 'sack the manager after every bad defeat' regime.
I'm as disappointed as anyone after Sunday and I do feel the sideline need to hold up their hands for their part in the collapse, but changing the manager now would be lunacy.
Saying that I'm not sure that O'Mahony is the man for the job doesn't mean I'm calling for him to be sacked Muppet.
Lots of times people are called in for a chat with the boss and told to smarten up. That doesn't mean they're going to get the bullet.
Do you know what I'd like Muppet? If Mayo aren't good enough, I can deal with that. I've dealt with it all my life. I'd just like O'Mahony to be honest with me and my fellow football fans, and stop spinning about positivity and if you're not with me you're not with Mayo and all this crack.
I wish he'd stop insulting my intelligence by talking this rubbish. I don't expect him to hang players out to dry and blame them, but I do wish he was more honest in his answers.
I was really hopeful when I heard that the panel had been dealing with that choke against Meath, so seeing them choke again was particularly distressing. Which is why I wanted Johnno to tell me if he thinks his psychologist is any damn good if they're making the same mistakes. And I wish that the media would ask him the questions that we're asking here. None of this, not a bit of it, the same as saying I want him sacked, and it's unfair to say it is.
I'm not sure what you want him to do there Iolar, his public utterances are made to different groups, the Mayo supporters, his opponents, his players and the general GAA and sporting public. He has to be careful about what he says as he would be particularly wary of how his own players and opposition managers/players would take things.
I also don't think last Sunday was anything like the Meath game, Meath are not better than Mayo, Cork are significantly better and showed it, simple as. It should also be remembered that Mayo lost both Kilcoyne and O'Shea (their best forwards on the day) against Meath so they were certainly unlucky that day.
I thought Mayo did quite well in many respects last Sunday, they just met a team that would beat them 10 times out of 10.
The only people O'Mahony has to address honestly are the people of Mayo Zulu. I could be bothered what he says to anyone else. I just don't want him filling his own with blather. We deserve better.
I reject absolutely the notion that Cork would beat Mayo ten times out of ten. Cork haven't won the last ten straight against Mayo, have they? I know Cork are a good team but Jesus Christ, it's not like they're the Beatles.
Quote from: Zulu on April 27, 2010, 10:08:35 PM
Let me ask this of the Mayo lads who are complaining about JOM, what exactly is he doing wrong and how would you improve it?
M&M and Maughan also got dogs abuse and they also did quite well, could it be simply that Mayo don't have teh players and no manager would win them an AI at the moment?
In fairness Zulu it wasn't today or yesterday that I and a few others had issue with this management. I think it was yourself Zulu ( could be mistaken here) that agreed about my reservations about our fitness coach last year. I also pointed out how things could be improved as well. In fact I outlined a few easy steps on the league final tread that would be a quick and easy start.
Maughan did get abuse no doubt though in my own case I feel he was mostly unlucky in the 90s and maybe lost his way a bit later on. I dont remember M&M getting much flack. There was a coup organised within the county board to get him out of the way of course but I believe most supporters had the height of time for him and how far we progressed that Summer before we hit a wall in Sept. And to be honest I don' t think this is about AIs being expected any time soon. It s about things like pride, honesty and responsibility. For the first time ever I believe the Mayo public have abandoned the county team in large numbers. Where even in the leanest years Mayo players could walk tall around the county, now they tend to be the objects of cynicism, fun and even worse pity. Even in their own parishes. The mood was poisonous last Sunday night - not disappointed.
Iolar is obviously disappointed in the way things have worked out. He would have welcomed this appointment as did a lot of people. Now people are realising that there is more to this managing a modern team than past glories and dumbing down expectations and guff about rebuilding. Football has moved on even since 2001. A lot. Even royalty like Down have realised they must adopt a more realistic approach and their lovely old style was leaving them behind. Mayo have to move on sometime and stop believing in ghosts. Instead of exorcists in the dressing room we need a coach and a top fitness trainer. Johnno should have put those in place. That would improve things.
Iorlar, your condition on naming the shirt numbers makes it impossible to have a bet who knows who will wear 8 and who will wear 9 for example, but I will name 15 players who I believe will play and if i dont get 12 right i will happily give 100 euro to cancer care west
David Clarke Andy Moran
Keith Higgins Aidan O Se
Donal Vaughan Conor Mortimer
Kevin Mc Loughlin Ger Cafferkey
Seamus O Se Peadar Gardiner
Ronan Mc Garrity Enda Varley
Alan Dillion
Trevor Howley
Trevor Mortimer
Quote from: Zulu on April 27, 2010, 10:08:35 PM
Let me ask this of the Mayo lads who are complaining about JOM, what exactly is he doing wrong and how would you improve it?
M&M and Maughan also got dogs abuse and they also did quite well, could it be simply that Mayo don't have teh players and no manager would win them an AI at the moment?
Zulu. an opinion from a part time supporter!
I think we are missing 3 players who can make a big difference whether that is good enough to win the all-ireland or not i am not sure. I would imagine that with the inclusion of a couple of real leaders the majority of the team would play with more confidence and as a result much better. I am thinking that we need a real full back and centre back. We currently do not have either. Possibly if the current no. 3 was at 6 he could become that player we need. We also need a number 11 but and until he returns from Brisbane we won't have one.
I think SOS and MCG will become a very good midfield partnership that will be a match for anyone. If MCG can add some pounds so he can stand his ground he would be as good as any midfielder in the country.
So to answer you're questions.
I can't rightly say what JOM is doing wrong because I dont know what instructions/coaching he is giving to the players, but for some reason he is persisting with certain players in positions that are not able for it. The league was the chance to try something completely different but the team has not changed a whole lot since last year.
You are right about not having the players to win the A.I. If half the cork team fecked off altogether we would be in with a good chance though.
The last ten games don't matter Iolar, they were probably played by vastly different teams. That was a Cork team short Canty, Pierce O'Neill, Lynch, Miskella and Colm O'Neill all major players for Cork last year and they still won handy. The point I'm making is that you can't criticize a manager just because he hasn't achieved what all supporters want - the AI.
Mayo have an average midfield, no top notch scoring forward and issues about center back and full back. Nobody would win an AI with those weaknesses, the question is whether JOM is getting the most out of what he has and I think he is, give or take. Getting to a league final was a fair achievement, done without some of Mayo's better players it should be remembered. That ye lost to Cork is no shame, they will hammer a few counties this year of that you can be sure. IMO opinion Cork will change the face of football in the same way that Armagh and Tyrone, in particular, did. They'll raise the bar on what it takes to win an AI.
Mayo are as good as most counties in Ireland and if they had SON and B Brogan upfront I'd give ye a punchers chance against even Cork but ye don't O'Shea is a decent target man but little more and C Mort is a supporting cast forward not a star. I'm not saying JOM is doing everything right, I don't know enough about the set up to comment but I do know he hasn't the players to win an AI or beat Cork.
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 10:51:59 PM
Iorlar, your condition on naming the shirt numbers makes it impossible to have a bet who knows who will wear 8 and who will wear 9 for example, but I will name 15 players who I believe will play and if i dont get 12 right i will happily give 100 euro to cancer care west
David Clarke Andy Moran
Keith Higgins Aidan O Se
Donal Vaughan Conor Mortimer
Kevin Mc Loughlin Ger Cafferkey
Seamus O Se Peadar Gardiner
Ronan Mc Garrity Enda Varley
Alan Dillion
Trevor Howley
Trevor Mortimer
You're hustling me Red, you're hustling me, but I can't give out about Johnno not standing up to be counted if I run and hide myself. The bet is on.
Quote from: Zulu on April 27, 2010, 10:58:28 PM
The last ten games don't matter Iolar, they were probably played by vastly different teams. That was a Cork team short Canty, Pierce O'Neill, Lynch, Miskella and Colm O'Neill all major players for Cork last year and they still won handy. The point I'm making is that you can't criticize a manager just because he hasn't achieved what all supporters want - the AI.
Mayo have an average midfield, no top notch scoring forward and issues about center back and full back. Nobody would win an AI with those weaknesses, the question is whether JOM is getting the most out of what he has and I think he is, give or take. Getting to a league final was a fair achievement, done without some of Mayo's better players it should be remembered. That ye lost to Cork is no shame, they will hammer a few counties this year of that you can be sure. IMO opinion Cork will change the face of football in the same way that Armagh and Tyrone, in particular, did. They'll raise the bar on what it takes to win an AI.
Mayo are as good as most counties in Ireland and if they had SON and B Brogan upfront I'd give ye a punchers chance against even Cork but ye don't O'Shea is a decent target man but little more and C Mort is a supporting cast forward not a star. I'm not saying JOM is doing everything right, I don't know enough about the set up to comment but I do know he hasn't the players to win an AI or beat Cork.
The 10/10 crack bothered me Zulu, although I see the validity in a lot of what you say there, of course.
QuoteIn fairness Zulu it wasn't today or yesterday that I and a few others had issue with this management. I think it was yourself Zulu ( could be mistaken here) that agreed about my reservations about our fitness coach last year.
That was me alright Moysider and I'm not saying JOM is doing everything 100% but there isn't a 100% right way of doing it, if there was everyone would be at it. I do think he is doing a pretty good job though and I do think that Mayo lads need to look at their players more critically. In fairness Mayo have flopped in big games under three different mangers so the fault must lie with them more than the managers.
And what about the underage development in the county, are the players being put on weight training programs to build up the size and strength required for senior football. Are good players being coached on their weaknesses or being taught how to play to different systems?
I think Mayo's problems are beyond the capabilities of any man to solve at senior level, the problem lies further back. IMO their wasn't one outstanding footballer in any of teh minor or U21 teams of recent years, despite their success, plaenty of good footbalers but no outstanding ones and that is a major problem.
Just going of thread for a second.
I have read it in this thread and others, people using Aidan Campbell's exclusion from the panel as a reason to knock O'Mahoney. Aidan Campbell should not be within an asses roar of the Mayo panel at the moment. He has done absolutley nothing to merit a place and until he puts his head down and starts concentrating on football he will never get in the panel again. How people think John O'Mahoney is meant to baby sit lads like this is beyond me.
You've been well and truly hustled Iolar. Only injuries can save you. Maybe 12 was a bit much to expect anybody to get but your point was valid. I think most people could get 10 or more right in the case of Kerry and Tyrone. Cork on the other hand have so many good options it would be a different proposition altogether. Its possible their midfield that started the last day - including mom, wont start v kerry in Champ. We re all over the place for a different reason.
Quote from: moysider on April 27, 2010, 11:13:00 PM
You've been well and truly hustled Iolar. Only injuries can save you. Maybe 12 was a bit much to expect anybody to get but your point was valid. I think most people could get 10 or more right in the case of Kerry and Tyrone. Cork on the other hand have so many good options it would be a different proposition altogether. Its possible their midfield that started the last day - including mom, wont start v kerry in Champ. We re all over the place for a different reason.
I have no complaints Moysider. Redcol is a gentleman and a sportsman for putting his money where his mouth and I salute him absolutely for that - it's a terrific cause, and one I recommend to anyone here.
I'll be sweating here for the next five weeks but you wouldn't know. Maybe the Killer, Ronaldo and big Barry Moran might save my bacon yet? Up Mayo.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 27, 2010, 11:41:42 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 27, 2010, 11:13:00 PM
You've been well and truly hustled Iolar. Only injuries can save you. Maybe 12 was a bit much to expect anybody to get but your point was valid. I think most people could get 10 or more right in the case of Kerry and Tyrone. Cork on the other hand have so many good options it would be a different proposition altogether. Its possible their midfield that started the last day - including mom, wont start v kerry in Champ. We re all over the place for a different reason.
I have no complaints Moysider. Redcol is a gentleman and a sportsman for putting his money where his mouth and I salute him absolutely for that - it's a terrific cause, and one I recommend to anyone here.
I'll be sweating here for the next five weeks but you wouldn't know. Maybe the Killer, Ronaldo and big Barry Moran might save my bacon yet? Up Mayo.
Yeah, and maybe Johnno has been on the phone to Heaney and Aidan Higgins. Because that is what he needs to do. You d wonder how serious we are in this county about the championship. Serious counties like Kerry make sure they get Michael McCarty back and you can be sure if Dara could raise a gallop he would have been back as well. But it was obvious his engine was running on vapors last year. In fact he was like Cúchulainn strapped to the stone - apparently finished but nobody was taking any chances with him. They get the last ounce out of their main players. I make it that 5/6 of Kerry s starting backs will be 30yrs or more. That may be seen as a weakness as well of course but its good to have the men when the goin gets tough.
Quote from: criostlinn on April 27, 2010, 11:11:42 PM
Just going of thread for a second.
I have read it in this thread and others, people using Aidan Campbell's exclusion from the panel as a reason to knock O'Mahoney. Aidan Campbell should not be within an asses roar of the Mayo panel at the moment. He has done absolutley nothing to merit a place and until he puts his head down and starts concentrating on football he will never get in the panel again. How people think John O'Mahoney is meant to baby sit lads like this is beyond me.
of course O'mahony should babysit he should also harass sweet talk lie cheat steal in order to get the best team because that what a good manager does.
you can get away with just being a p***k if your delivering titles or at least improving the team he has done neother
. he has cut adrift the kilcullens a higgins and Campbell not to mention mayo greatest ever player in Mcdonald
why?
was it to act the hard man in the dressing room to show who was boss and make every one respect his authority . if it was it was a failure just like every ting else he has done with MAyo team.
and i dont give a fiddlers how many al Ireland Padraig Joyce and M Donnellan won.
Mickey moran got mayo to an all Ireland final and got the booth O mahony lost 2 league finals and has got nowhere in the Championship.
how can any one defend that
It's my understanding that any football manager would not entertain Aidan Campbell and some of his antics - it's also my understanding that he will never play for Mayo whilst one high profile Co. Board member is still breathing.
Ciaran Mac and A Higgins were too old even three years ago and their inability to listen to instructions and do what they were told counted against them.
JOM has a history of getting the best out of players that want to play for him, young fellas like Campbell should not be entertained and the fact that he's even being discussed shows the desperation that some will go to in order to ridicule the current set up. It might deserve the ridicule after last weekend but can we shut up about players like Ciaran Mac and Higgins (too old) and fcuing Aidan Campbell who has proved f**k all at Senior inter county level.
Quote from: deiseach on April 27, 2010, 09:24:39 AM
I wouldn't be too sure about that. People forget that Galway had carried a stench of failure about them just as bad as anything you could say about Mayo, e.g. losing to 12 man Dublin. Under O'Mahony they got to the point where they shattered the aura of invincibility that Sean Boylan's Meath carried around.
[/quote]
It wasn't just about putting Meath to the sword on the national stage in the great cathedral in front of 70,000 people. It was also about the mental anguish that was inflicted on Meath and still causes a wince in Meath people nine years on when the wound is reopened around championship time. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2010, 09:11:31 AM
It wasn't just about putting Meath to the sword on the national stage in the great cathedral in front of 70,000 people. It was also about the mental anguish that was inflicted on Meath and still causes a wince in Meath people nine years on when the wound is reopened around championship time. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Ah yes, I remember it well. My flatmate at the time, an inveterate Meath-hater, went in to a pub to watch the match (this was in Liverpool) with a sour look on his face. The moment he walked back through the door I knew the result. And I rejoiced with him.
It should be noted that the only time Meath have regained that swagger was against Mayo last year. Christ, there was a Mayo lad sitting near me in the Hogan Stand and I wanted to go over and give him a hug.
Quote from: stephenite on April 28, 2010, 01:20:52 AM
It's my understanding that any football manager would not entertain Aidan Campbell and some of his antics - it's also my understanding that he will never play for Mayo whilst one high profile Co. Board member is still breathing.
Ciaran Mac and A Higgins were too old even three years ago and their inability to listen to instructions and do what they were told counted against them.
JOM has a history of getting the best out of players that want to play for him, young fellas like Campbell should not be entertained and the fact that he's even being discussed shows the desperation that some will go to in order to ridicule the current set up. It might deserve the ridicule after last weekend but can we shut up about players like Ciaran Mac and Higgins (too old) and fcuing Aidan Campbell who has proved f**k all at Senior inter county level.
If Campbell doesn't want to play that's fair enough. Nobody should be made to play if they want to spend their life differently. We get only one spin on the merry-go-round after all, and we all have to make choices.
The reason I mention Campbell has to do with you say in your last paragraph Stephenite. One of the reasons that I believed in O'Mahony originally is because I thought he would not fall out with players the way Maughan fell out with Peter Butler, Kevin O'Neill and David Brady. You say that O'Mahony got the best out of players who wanted to play for him, but you're wrong - O'Mahony got the best out of players who
didn't want to play for him, by which I mean Paraic Joyce and the Donnellans. As anyone who saw the 100 Years of Galway Football video can tell you, the Donnellans aren't easy men to deal with.
When he was doing his radio show in 2005 O'Mahony said that if he were Mayo manager he camp morning, noon and night outside David Brady's house to get Brady back on the panel. So O'Mahony certainly was willing to meet players half way. The evidence is there. But is he willing to do it any more?
This is what it comes down to. There is a feeling growing in the county now that O'Mahony's man management skills are not working. Campbell might be an exception, but the Tom Parsons decline has been frightening. What's going here, and what's Johnno doing to fix it? That's what I want to know, and I still maintain my right to ask that question. I think the people of Mayo have a right to know.
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2010, 09:18:08 AM
Christ, there was a Mayo lad sitting near me in the Hogan Stand and I wanted to go over and give him a hug.
I know that feeling. It's the same as watching the Sun building up the England football team before a major championship. This time is different. This time there is JT or whoever. You know what is going to happen but you also know they can't stop it. You know the Germans/Kerry will win. You know it will end in self critical introspection and bitching but that nothing can be done by anyone.
Apparently Schalke 04 have the same illness.
John O'Mahony is better than a lucky general. An u21 with Mayo. u21 and Senior All Irelands with Galway. A Connacht Championship with Leitrim. In fairness whatever our reservations now he has an excellent track-record. But maybe the game has passed him by. And maybe his burning desire and commitment has gone, and been muddied by a life in politics which would take up most of any man's time. And maybe his loyalty has left him exposed - no change in trainers, or back room team does not bode well.
His record in Croke Park since the 2001 Final is also alarming:
2002
Kerry 2.17 Galway 1.12
2003
Galway 1.11 Donegal 0.14 (Replay was lost in Castlebar)
2004
Galway 0.11 Tyrone 1.16
2007
Galway 1.12 Mayo 2.10
Donegal 0.13 Mayo 0.10
2008
Mayo 1.9 Tyrone 0.13
2009
Mayo 1.15 Meath 2.15
and then 2010
Cork 1.17 Mayo 0.12
So the record is a win in a league semi-final, a draw in an AI Quarter Final and 6 defeats.
My answer to the title of the thread is johhno overrated i personally dont think so as i believe his record does the talking.
However i do believe he is getting an easy ride in terms of criticism in mayo and nationwide as well.
I class mayo as being in the aristocracy of intercounty football.
Up there with kerry,dublin,cork,galway,tyrone,derry,meath and down in terms of expectations every year and what is expected of them.
Nearly every year in the last twenty these counties are named as potential all ireland winners.
Yet when they dont its almost inevitable that the managemnet has questions asked of it and gets some level of criticism both within their county and nationwide.
Caffrey despite dublins dominance of leinster got it,micky harte got it in the years tyrone didnt win,christ even jack o connor got it.
However for some reason the bold johhno seems to slip under the radar and is happy to see his players take the flack.
Obviously when any side loses its not all the managements fault both they do have to accept some responsibility in terms of selection,tactics and decision making during game time.
Johnno again seems immune to all this.
I think if o mahoney got the odd roasting from within mayo from the media or even indeed nationwide you might see a different approach but that doesnt seem to be the case.
For the record i dont read too much into last sunday in terms of championship expectations.
I would sooner be in mayos shoes in terms of the cover of the long grass than the level of expectation now on corks shoulders.
Mayo are on the ultra competitive side of the connacht draw his year.
They have to meet a sligo team capable of beating anyone if in the mood and if they get over that they meet a galway side which should have some added steel to it and if they get over that hurdle a connacht final more than likely beckons against leitrim (who i believe will beat roscommon) and for obvious reasons leitrim will be all out to win connacht this year.
So mayos championship will have a tough demension to it even before the niity gritty end of it in august.
Compare that to cork which more than likely be a tough game against a depleted kerry side id sooner be in the mayo camp if they come through all the first hurdles.
Quote from: Barney on April 28, 2010, 10:18:20 AM
John O'Mahony is better than a lucky general. An u21 with Mayo. u21 and Senior All Irelands with Galway. A Connacht Championship with Leitrim. In fairness whatever our reservations now he has an excellent track-record. But maybe the game has passed him by. And maybe his burning desire and commitment has gone, and been muddied by a life in politics which would take up most of any man's time. And maybe his loyalty has left him exposed - no change in trainers, or back room team does not bode well.
Maybe he is out of touch. On the other hand maybe Mayo just don't have the players at the moment. Meath got rid of Boylan but what difference did it make to Meath ? The Dubs keep on winning devalued Leinster titles.
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2010, 10:07:42 AM
I know that feeling. It's the same as watching the Sun building up the England football team before a major championship. This time is different. This time there is JT or whoever. You know what is going to happen but you also know they can't stop it. You know the Germans/Kerry will win. You know it will end in self critical introspection and bitching but that nothing can be done by anyone.
You have a point. I've being building up Mrs d's hopes about the World Cup, the delight in her face at the thought is wonderful. Upon reflection, perhaps I should be damping down her hopes
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2010, 10:27:53 AM
You have a point. I've being building up Mrs d's hopes about the World Cup, the delight in her face at the thought is wonderful. Upon reflection, perhaps I should be damping down her hopes
It was just inviting Schadenfreude to sing about thirty years of hurt, to try to put a limit on it. Jules Rimet's still gleaming but not for England. Not even the overleveraged Premiership can overcome the mental demons. And they all pile in on the bandwagon every time. And hail the manager they discard months later as a loser. I'll never forget the treatment Graham Taylor got. It was repeated for every single successor.
It's no coincidence that the Germans or the Italians get to the final once in every 2 tournaments while England hasn't been in a final since 1966. I blame neoliberalism.
Quote from: Barney on April 28, 2010, 10:18:20 AM
John O'Mahony is better than a lucky general. An u21 with Mayo. u21 and Senior All Irelands with Galway. A Connacht Championship with Leitrim. In fairness whatever our reservations now he has an excellent track-record. But maybe the game has passed him by. And maybe his burning desire and commitment has gone, and been muddied by a life in politics which would take up most of any man's time. And maybe his loyalty has left him exposed - no change in trainers, or back room team does not bode well.
I think that is it in a nutshell Barney. The modern game HAS passed him by and I believe it happened during his latter years with us where he was not able to adapt to the new tactics brought to the table by the likes of Armagh and Tyrone. It even took Kerry a few years to adapt but in fairness to Jack O'Connor he has improved them in that regard and they have bagged another few titles.
I also believe that Mayo have quite a few holes in their team (no more than ourselves!) that need to be addressed before ye are All Ireland material and to be honest I dont think them players are available in the county at this present moment in time. Its my opinion that ye are struggling at 3, 6, midfield I'm not convinced about, 11 (Dillon is a wing forward) and 14 (O'Shea is not smart enough for that position yet). Mayo's marquee forward over the past 2 years has been Alan Dillon and other than him I wouldnt trust any of the rest of them on a big day in Croke Park. The likes of Cork, Kerry and Tyrone have at least 3 go to guys on any given day and hence they will be in the shake up again this year.
In the short term JOM has a big job on his hands to lift the confidence of the players ahead of the trip to Sligo. That will not be an easy feat and it may ultimately define Mayo's season and possibly his tenure at the helm of Mayo football.
I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.
Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.
What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?
Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.
The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.
Quote from: shaund10 on April 28, 2010, 12:15:39 PM
Ye ... should have beaten Meath.
All right. This now seems to have become dogma. Will somebody do me a favour and explain the theory behind this extraordinary doctrine?
Quote from: Hardy on April 28, 2010, 12:18:39 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 28, 2010, 12:15:39 PM
Ye ... should have beaten Meath.
All right. This now seems to have become dogma. Will somebody do me a favour and explain the theory behind this extraordinary doctrine?
Every one should and as hard as possible!! ;)
Well for a start Joe McQuillan's errors lead to a 7 point turnaround. Without those Mayo would have one.
However Mayo fans have always blamed that result more on the inept performance. If those decisions had gone in Mayo's favour the performance was still sub-standard and it would have been pure luck to have got over the line. That was a poor Meath team that any half-decent team expecting to get to an All ireland Semi should have beaten. We were nto half-decent.
There are many issues with JOM and what he has done in his term in charge which I will come back to.
Quote from: shaund10 on April 28, 2010, 12:15:39 PM
I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.
Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.
What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?
Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.
The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.
This is something that I've been thinking about, especially in the light of something Zulu said earlier, about needing one great player in an All-Ireland team.
Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.
Zulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.
Seriously though, does the nation believe that only Kerry, Cork and Tyrone can win the All-Ireland? Has it come to this?
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 28, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 28, 2010, 12:15:39 PM
I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.
Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.
What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?
Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.
The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.
This is something that I've been thinking about, especially in the light of something Zulu said earlier, about needing one great player in an All-Ireland team.
Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.
Zulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.
Seriously though, does the nation believe that only Kerry, Cork and Tyrone can win the All-Ireland? Has it come to this?
Not sure I agree with that argument.
Try the opposite side ...
Any team that wins an All Ireland is very, very good, with excellent players - and with some exceptional players, but a few I'd argue it should be possible to win All Irelands without 'greats' such as Cooper/God etc.
How many teams
(A) won All Irelands
without 'stand-out' players such as Cooper/God etc?*
(B) won All Irelands with very good players of a similarly very good/excellent standard
*(And don't name players who were 'greats' after ... I mean before the success)
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 28, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 28, 2010, 12:15:39 PM
I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.
Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.
What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?
Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.
The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.
This is something that I've been thinking about, especially in the light of something Zulu said earlier, about needing one great player in an All-Ireland team.
Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.
Zulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.
Seriously though, does the nation believe that only Kerry, Cork and Tyrone can win the All-Ireland? Has it come to this?
I am not sure about the rest of the nation ICC but I cannot see any other outstanding candidates on the horizon this year other than the 3 mentioned above . It has been worse in the past! Have a look at the roll of honour between '74 and '86!! Bar one blip in '82 (and well deserved it was too) it was the same 2 teams year in year out.
Love this comment :D
QuoteZulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.
Sorry Zulu, it's true. You have serious man love for Cork this past couple of years.
Anyhow, I agree that you have to have a solid team with a couple of match winners added in to win an All Ireland. The more match winners in your ranks the better the chance that some of them will play well on the big day. That's where Kerry, Tyrone et al have the extra bit of quality throughout their teams and a poor day for one big name doesn't mean a loss.
In the lesser teams, they either have only a couple of star men, or even less, and if they are held the team is fucked. And that cascades all the way through the levels where even division 4 teams have good players, even some star players, but not a supporting cast. All Ireland winners need both.
As regards teams (except Cork) with players good enough to light up an All Ireland Final, if the supporting cast keeps them around, I'd say Bernard Brogan from Dublin, Johnny Doyle from Kildare, Paddy Bradley from Derry, Michael Murphy from Donegal and Michael Meehan from Galway spring to mind.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 28, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.
Trying to disprove the suggestion that an All-Ireland winning team needs at least one great player is a classic example of trying to prove a negative. Winning the All-Ireland is going to bestow greatness on seveal players on the team. Not winning the All-Ireland is not going to render a great player inadequate.
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2010, 02:19:19 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 28, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.
Trying to disprove the suggestion that an All-Ireland winning team needs at least one great player is a classic example of trying to prove a negative. Winning the All-Ireland is going to bestow greatness on seveal players on the team. Not winning the All-Ireland is not going to render a great player inadequate.
Name one
great player on the Dublin '95 Team?
Quote from: Barney on April 28, 2010, 12:50:20 PM
Well for a start Joe McQuillan's errors lead to a 7 point turnaround.
This is the theory most often quoted. As far as I remember, only one decision was wrong. The two biggest decisions cited are usually the line ball fro Meath that led to the goal and the suggestion that Paddy O'Rourke caught a ball behind the line.
The line ball decision was correct. Look at the video. Joe Sheridan plays the ball off the Mayo player's leg and from there it crosses the line. As regard the goal, no camera angle I've seen (and I think I've seen them all) provides a definitive view. On the other hand, both umpires were on the spot and they agreed it wasn't a goal.
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 02:22:58 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2010, 02:19:19 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 28, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.
Trying to disprove the suggestion that an All-Ireland winning team needs at least one great player is a classic example of trying to prove a negative. Winning the All-Ireland is going to bestow greatness on seveal players on the team. Not winning the All-Ireland is not going to render a great player inadequate.
Name one great player on the Dublin '95 Team?
John O'Leary. There are others.
O'Leary wasn't a great. Who else? Redmond? Stynes? Barr? Gavin? Vinnie? Sherlock?
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
O'Leary wasn't a great. Who else? Redmond? Stynes? Barr? Gavin? Vinnie? Sherlock?
That Dublin team were knocking on the door for a number of years. Below are their All Stars from around those years. I would consider John O'Leary and Paul Curran outstanding footballers and to a lesser extent Charlie Redmond as he was very valuable to the makeup of that particular team. The supporting cast weren't too bad either in all fairness!
1996: P. Curran
1995: J. O' Leary, P. Curran, K. Barr, B. Stynes, D. Farrell, P. Clarke, C. Redmond
1994: J. O'Leary, J. Sheedy, C. Redmond
1993: J. O'Leary, D. Deasy, C. Redmond
1992: P. Curran, E. Heery, V. Murphy
1991: M. Deegan, T. Carr, K. Barr
I used to love the way Micheal o Muircheartaigh pronounced "Keith Barr".
Yes - two syllables in Keith. Same as all Karls and Carls in the GAA get a bonus syllable as well, and not only from Micheál.
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
O'Leary wasn't a great. Who else? Redmond? Stynes? Barr? Gavin? Vinnie? Sherlock?
Bollox. O Leary has no peer as a keeper in the last 25 years. None. Check the stats- unparalled
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
O'Leary wasn't a great. Who else? Redmond? Stynes? Barr? Gavin? Vinnie? Sherlock?
Paul Curran was nearly as good as Martin O Connell who is the best wing back I ever saw.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2010, 03:04:52 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
O'Leary wasn't a great. Who else? Redmond? Stynes? Barr? Gavin? Vinnie? Sherlock?
Bollox. O Leary has no peer as a keeper in the last 25 years. None. Check the stats- unparalled
Oh right ... after O'Keefe or Murphy, with what 2 and 4 All Irelands or something? Yeh, no peer indeed.
Quote from: Hardy on April 28, 2010, 02:52:57 PM
Yes - two syllables in Keith. Same as all Karls and Carls in the GAA get a bonus syllable as well, and not only from Micheál.
I used to like watching the Ulster matches on six county TV just to listen to the pronunciation. Rass Kyarr and Macah Landan . Those were the days .
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2010, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 28, 2010, 02:52:57 PM
Yes - two syllables in Keith. Same as all Karls and Carls in the GAA get a bonus syllable as well, and not only from Micheál.
I used to like watching the Ulster matches on six county TV just to listen to the pronunciation. Rass Kyarr and Macah Landan . Those were the days .
;D Those were the days! just ask poor Jerome!
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2010, 03:04:52 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
O'Leary wasn't a great. Who else? Redmond? Stynes? Barr? Gavin? Vinnie? Sherlock?
Bollox. O Leary has no peer as a keeper in the last 25 years. None. Check the stats- unparalled
Oh right ... after O'Keefe or Murphy, with what 2 and 4 All Irelands or something? Yeh, no peer indeed.
Neither of whom in a hapenny place compared to O Leary. As I said check the stats- championship appearances, goals conceded.etc etc etc etc.
Kevin O Brien is in the top 5 forwards of the last 20 years and he never won an all-ireland. Since when did winning an all-ireland be a barometer of individual excellence?
Only to those lazy in their analysis.
http://www.hoganstand.com/Mayo/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=127768
I find the quote, "The players approached us and said they were interested in this idea" very strange. Shouldnt it be the management team approached us, as in part of the teams build up. Is there trouble in the camp or what between management and players? To me it tells me the players dont trust the management to get them in shape for the CSFC.
I also remember after the MM era, the mayo players were a disllusioned at JOM methods the yr after. I remember reading quotes," we bought into the ideas and training of this set up this yr" in JOM 2nd yr in charge..."last yr we adjusting and didnt believe fully in it"
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 28, 2010, 03:44:02 PM
http://www.hoganstand.com/Mayo/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=127768
I find the quote, "The players approached us and said they were interested in this idea" very strange. Shouldnt it be the management team approached us, as in part of the teams build up. Is there trouble in the camp or what between management and players? To me it tells me the players dont trust the management to get them in shape for the CSFC.
I also remember after the MM era, the mayo players were a disllusioned at JOM methods the yr after. I remember reading quotes," we bought into the ideas and training of this set up this yr" in JOM 2nd yr in charge..."last yr we adjusting and didnt believe fully in it"
Management are right. Those foreign training camps are a complete waste of time.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2010, 03:38:07 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2010, 03:04:52 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 28, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
O'Leary wasn't a great. Who else? Redmond? Stynes? Barr? Gavin? Vinnie? Sherlock?
Bollox. O Leary has no peer as a keeper in the last 25 years. None. Check the stats- unparalled
Oh right ... after O'Keefe or Murphy, with what 2 and 4 All Irelands or something? Yeh, no peer indeed.
Neither of whom in a hapenny place compared to O Leary. As I said check the stats- championship appearances, goals conceded.etc etc etc etc.
Kevin O Brien is in the top 5 forwards of the last 20 years and he never won an all-ireland. Since when did winning an all-ireland be a barometer of individual excellence?
Only to those lazy in their analysis.
What are you talking about man?
It was said that to win an All Ireland Mayo need a GREAT player(s) and they don't have a GREAT or GREATS of the calibre of a Cooper or Cavanagh.
Dublin didn't have a player of the quality of Cooper or Cavanagh, apart from possibly Tohill in '93 Derry didn't either.
But oh wait you've got the 'analysis' done I'm sure to prove that Mayo have greats or that Mortimer is a great or some other bullshit.
When a statistician wins a match you'll be listened to.
Mayo have some very good players and have had some fabulous players over the recent years.
Kevin O'Brien is in the top 5 forwards of the past 20 years?
FFS ::)
Quote from: INDIANA on April 28, 2010, 03:54:30 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on April 28, 2010, 03:44:02 PM
http://www.hoganstand.com/Mayo/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=127768
I find the quote, "The players approached us and said they were interested in this idea" very strange. Shouldnt it be the management team approached us, as in part of the teams build up. Is there trouble in the camp or what between management and players? To me it tells me the players dont trust the management to get them in shape for the CSFC.
I also remember after the MM era, the mayo players were a disllusioned at JOM methods the yr after. I remember reading quotes," we bought into the ideas and training of this set up this yr" in JOM 2nd yr in charge..."last yr we adjusting and didnt believe fully in it"
Management are right. Those foreign training camps are a complete waste of time.
I am sure there'll be a few people hit hard by the recession probably not feeling great about this trip.
Possibly even one or two players?
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2010, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2010, 09:11:31 AM
It wasn't just about putting Meath to the sword on the national stage in the great cathedral in front of 70,000 people. It was also about the mental anguish that was inflicted on Meath and still causes a wince in Meath people nine years on when the wound is reopened around championship time. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Ah yes, I remember it well. My flatmate at the time, an inveterate Meath-hater, went in to a pub to watch the match (this was in Liverpool) with a sour look on his face. The moment he walked back through the door I knew the result. And I rejoiced with him.
It should be noted that the only time Meath have regained that swagger was against Mayo last year. Christ, there was a Mayo lad sitting near me in the Hogan Stand and I wanted to go over and give him a hug.
It was Down in 1991 who craftily withstood the battering ram of Meath invincibility and put them to the sword.
It's just that Meath staggered on, Rasputin like, to regain a second wind before finally succumbing.
Kevin O'Brien as a footballer was one of the best forwards of the past 20 years. I'd put him alongside anyone since 1990 onwards. He'd have made any county team, and I mean any county team, at his peak.
makin any co team biteen easier to being top 5 over last 20 yrs
I don't know if he's top 5, but he's certainly among the top forwards of the past 20 years, and would have made any county team. If I ranked the forwards he may well be top 5, and is almost certainly top 10.
Kevin O'Brien was a brilliant footballer....... certainly one of the best I have ever seen. On a par imo with Cooper,Fitzgerald ,Linden,McDonnell and O'Sullivan.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 05:19:33 PM
I don't know if he's top 5, but he's certainly among the top forwards of the past 20 years, and would have made any county team. If I ranked the forwards he may well be top 5, and is almost certainly top 10.
Wavering there AZ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE&feature=related)
I've always said Maurice Fitz is my top forward of the recent past. I have great time for Declan O'Sullivan as well.
I think Mickey Linden was top class.
Kevin O'Brien would be just below them in my estimation, but I actually would have him ahead of Gooch as a footballer.
Quote from: passedit on April 28, 2010, 05:42:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 05:19:33 PM
I don't know if he's top 5, but he's certainly among the top forwards of the past 20 years, and would have made any county team. If I ranked the forwards he may well be top 5, and is almost certainly top 10.
Wavering there AZ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE&feature=related)
Not at all passedit. I never said he was top 5 to begin with. But the comment that made it sound as if that were ridiculous was wide of the mark in my eyes.
I think he is certainly one of the top 10, maybe top 5, and would have made any county team I've ever seen. I think that's consistent enough.
Kevin O'Brien would definitely be up there as one of the best forwards of the last 20 years. Not in the class of M Fitz (who was?!) or possibly Canavan but up there with anyone else of the last two decades IMO.
As for O'Mahony, I lost all respect for him when he encouraged Michael Donnellan to stay down after John Finn hit him a shoulder in the dying minutes of the 2000 AI semi-final. The game was level at the time and Finn got the line. Galway got two or three points in injury time to win it. Mick O'Dwyer mentions it in his book that it stuck in his craw for a long while afterwards.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 05:19:33 PM
I don't know if he's top 5, but he's certainly among the top forwards of the past 20 years, and would have made any county team.
Agree with that much completely (Just not in the top 5 in my book), what impressed me most was his longevity - and this was long before the Golden Days of Micko.
Kevin O'Brien was one of the best alright ..... however that will be meaningless to those who think football started in the early Noughties.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 02:18:07 PM
Love this comment :D
QuoteZulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.
Sorry Zulu, it's true. You have serious man love for Cork this past couple of years.
:D :D :D :D Yeah I know boys, I'm kinda conscious of it at this stage myself.
On the point of great players being needed for teams to win AI's, I don't think you necessarily need players who will be regarded as greats in 20 years time but they do need to be among the best players in the country at the time. Another factor that needs to be considered is the quality of opponents in a particular era. I think it is very hard to win an AI without at least 3 or 4 players that would make most peoples top 15 in the country.
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2010, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: deiseach on April 28, 2010, 09:18:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2010, 09:11:31 AM
It wasn't just about putting Meath to the sword on the national stage in the great cathedral in front of 70,000 people. It was also about the mental anguish that was inflicted on Meath and still causes a wince in Meath people nine years on when the wound is reopened around championship time. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Ah yes, I remember it well. My flatmate at the time, an inveterate Meath-hater, went in to a pub to watch the match (this was in Liverpool) with a sour look on his face. The moment he walked back through the door I knew the result. And I rejoiced with him.
It should be noted that the only time Meath have regained that swagger was against Mayo last year. Christ, there was a Mayo lad sitting near me in the Hogan Stand and I wanted to go over and give him a hug.
It was Down in 1991 who craftily withstood the battering ram of Meath invincibility and put them to the sword.
It's just that Meath staggered on, Rasputin like, to regain a second wind before finally succumbing.
Staggered on to two more All-Irelands with a whole new team, bar two players.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 05:43:43 PM
I've always said Maurice Fitz is my top forward of the recent past. I have great time for Declan O'Sullivan as well.
I think Mickey Linden was top class.
Kevin O'Brien would be just below them in my estimation, but I actually would have him ahead of Gooch as a footballer.
know im getting way of topic but interesting to see if kevin o brien would be top 5 over last 20 yrs when considering thisbunch
peter canavan
steven o neill
stevie mcdonald
mairtin beag
tony boyle
paddy bradley
micky linden
wee james
greg blaney
mattie ford
johnny doyle
ollie murphy
trevor giles
alan brogan
bernard brogan
dessie dolan
dessie barry
vinnie claffey
michael donnellan
ja
pj tips ;)
val daly
tony mcmanus
james horan
alan dillon
ciaran mcd
marcus hannick
maurice fitz
gooch
declan o sullivan
star
declan brown
most of these lads made there nme playing at business end of year in intense high presure games
Quote from: Hardy on April 28, 2010, 08:30:19 PM
Staggered on to two more All-Irelands with a whole new team, bar two players.
Good man Hardy. Sue them if they get too uppity.
Quote from: spuds on April 28, 2010, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 05:43:43 PM
I've always said Maurice Fitz is my top forward of the recent past. I have great time for Declan O'Sullivan as well.
I think Mickey Linden was top class.
Kevin O'Brien would be just below them in my estimation, but I actually would have him ahead of Gooch as a footballer.
know im getting way of topic but interesting to see if kevin o brien would be top 5 over last 20 yrs when considering thisbunch
peter canavan
steven o neill
stevie mcdonald
mairtin beag
tony boyle
paddy bradley
micky linden
wee james
greg blaney
mattie ford
johnny doyle
ollie murphy
trevor giles
alan brogan
bernard brogan
dessie dolan
dessie barry
vinnie claffey
michael donnellan
ja
pj tips ;)
val daly
tony mcmanus
james horan
alan dillon
ciaran mcd
marcus hannick
maurice fitz
gooch
declan o sullivan
star
declan brown
most of these lads made there nme playing at business end of year in intense high presure games
What has that fella from Killala done to merit being on this list?
Quote from: spuds on April 28, 2010, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 05:43:43 PM
I've always said Maurice Fitz is my top forward of the recent past. I have great time for Declan O'Sullivan as well.
I think Mickey Linden was top class.
Kevin O'Brien would be just below them in my estimation, but I actually would have him ahead of Gooch as a footballer.
know im getting way of topic but interesting to see if kevin o brien would be top 5 over last 20 yrs when considering thisbunch
peter canavan
steven o neill
stevie mcdonald
mairtin beag
tony boyle
paddy bradley
micky linden
wee james
greg blaney
mattie ford
johnny doyle
ollie murphy
trevor giles
alan brogan
bernard brogan
dessie dolan
dessie barry
[vinnie claffey
michael donnellan
ja
pj tips ;)
val daly
tony mcmanus
james horan
alan dillon
ciaran mcd
marcus hannick
maurice fitz
gooch
declan o sullivan
star
declan brown
most of these lads made there nme playing at business end of year in intense high presure games
The players I have lined out would be inferior to O'Brien irrespective of where they have made their names. Some of them, you're just taking the piss now!
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on April 26, 2010, 11:03:26 PM
I don't think he can be rated over one match which seems to be what the OP is really asking. I was with a Mayo man in Croker yesterday and I felt the man's pain. Cork are a class side though so I don't read too much into the result. Certainly Mayo have a lot to do as was evidenced yesterday but it's like this, the lessons they learned yesterday will bode well for them later in the year. In my opinion, Cork are the team to beat in Croker in August this year
My opening post was NOT asking if he was overrated just because of last Sunday. It was a question about him in general.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 28, 2010, 10:42:36 PM
Quote from: spuds on April 28, 2010, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2010, 05:43:43 PM
I've always said Maurice Fitz is my top forward of the recent past. I have great time for Declan O'Sullivan as well.
I think Mickey Linden was top class.
Kevin O'Brien would be just below them in my estimation, but I actually would have him ahead of Gooch as a footballer.
know im getting way of topic but interesting to see if kevin o brien would be top 5 over last 20 yrs when considering thisbunch
peter canavan
steven o neill
stevie mcdonald
mairtin beag
tony boyle
paddy bradley
micky linden
wee james
greg blaney
mattie ford
johnny doyle
ollie murphy
trevor giles
alan brogan
bernard brogan
dessie dolan
dessie barry
[vinnie claffey
michael donnellan
ja
pj tips ;)
val daly
tony mcmanus
james horan
alan dillon
ciaran mcd
marcus hannick
maurice fitz
gooch
declan o sullivan
star
declan brown
most of these lads made there nme playing at business end of year in intense high presure games
The players I have lined out would be inferior to O'Brien irrespective of where they have made their names. Some of them, you're just taking the piss now!
To be honest I saw very little of O Brien and what I did was on tv for mainly geographical reasons. In fact I dont ever recollect Mayo ever playing Wicklow when he was playing - or any other time either. My loss. I did see a player you ve crossed off though. Declan Browne looked special any time I ever saw him. And if I could sign any forward/player now for Mayo it would be Declan O Sullivan. A lad I thought would be shortlisted above is Graham Geraghty. Love him or hate him he was some player.
Where did the discussion of O'Mahony go?....Looks like it's over.
Quote from: Shrewdness on April 28, 2010, 11:23:40 PM
Where did the discussion of O'Mahony go?....Looks like it's over.
not unless he has resigned
in the mean time the important issue seems to be if kevin obrien would have been better player if given the chance with a stronger county than Marcus hannick might be if hes given a proper chance with mayo.
I hope i have got the gist of it
Ok ... back on track here.
Is JOM overrated?
Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.
However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.
Apology in advance if this goes off track ... BUT ... I was wondering who Mayo people would consider their ideal choice of manager (if they could choose any manager) to win an All Ireland with the current team?
My own opinion is that no current manager could win an All Ireland with the current Mayo players available (you can include Ciaran Mac in that as well BTW).
I'm not sure Mickey Harte or Jack could, possibly Joe, so I think JOM is the best option.
Do Mayo people believe there is better out there?
I think it needs to be a management team led by Moysider, he can be in charge of tactics and coaching the players. He'll ensure that there's no catching of the ball from kick outs and Tom Parsons will just be coached back into playing at the level he's capable.
Barney can be a selector with an eye on retrospective statistics and letting us know where there's no point in playing because we haven't won there in 9 years.
Iorlar would be the other selector who deals with the meeja and ensures that everyone is kept up to date, via the National newspapers, with honest no nonsense appraisals of how the team are travelling and where it's going wrong, a kind of anti spin doctor if you will. It is our right, after all.
There'll be no psychologists or any of that old rubbish - pure football.
:P Sorry lads, couldn't resist
Quote from: stephenite on April 29, 2010, 07:48:34 AM
I think it needs to be a management team led by Moysider, he can be in charge of tactics and coaching the players. He'll ensure that there's no catching of the ball from kick outs and Tom Parsons will just be coached back into playing at the level he's capable.
Barney can be a selector with an eye on retrospective statistics and letting us know where there's no point in playing because we haven't won there in 9 years.
Iorlar would be the other selector who deals with the meeja and ensures that everyone is kept up to date, via the National newspapers, with honest no nonsense appraisals of how the team are travelling and where it's going wrong, a kind of anti spin doctor if you will. It is our right, after all.
There'll be no psychologists or any of that old rubbish - pure football.
:P Sorry lads, couldn't resist
i'd go with that especially whe you consider the (sleeping) selectors mayo have at present, at least the 3 boys wouldn't let johnno run the show and might actually have some ideas of their own ;)
I would take over Angelina's sportshow on MWR and criticise the tiro mentioned stephenite after any given loss!!! ;)
Is there any way of breaking the Mayo hoodoo ? How about doing something drastic like focusing on the fellas coming up at underage and building something over 5 years. Downplay the current seniors and write them off so nobody's expectations are unmet. If they win something, it's a bonus. An awful lot of money is just wasted on the senior team. Does Mayo have a top of the range underage system? If not why not?
See how teams from other sports in other countries have overcome this problem. Schalke 04 are joint top of the Bundesliga under Felix Magath after a long history of collapse at the highest levels. How did they do it? Can Mayo learn anything from it. Would a manager from a different sport work ?
Even Tyrone- how did they do it? Apparently HMG spent a lot of money on sports facilities to keep the kids away from paramilitarism. Is that something Mayo could look into? Part of the problem in this regard is the high degree of centralisation in Ireland. If Mayo could decide its own taxes it would probably be easier to fix the football.
The county has such a passion for football that the misfiring of the senior team has to be rectified. I wonder if John Casey had scored that point in 96 if it would all be different today.
Yes.And in fairness Mayo are helping him find his true level. Worst league final defeat ever. And to think of it; Mayo were once known as the League Specialists. Boylan and Micko changed their selectors and backroom team to keep the set up fresh. Mayo is an old boys club run by an older group of old boys.
Quote from: Logan on April 29, 2010, 06:15:04 AM
Ok ... back on track here.
Is JOM overrated?
Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.
However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.
How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?
2/3 tops.
Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2010, 10:02:47 AM
Is there any way of breaking the Mayo hoodoo ? How about doing something drastic like focusing on the fellas coming up at underage and building something over 5 years. Downplay the current seniors and write them off so nobody's expectations are unmet. If they win something, it's a bonus.
I think that's the way forward for Mayo. Structure the Championship like the under-8's. It's about participation, not winning. Everybody gets a game. Scrap the Sam Maguire and give everybody a certificate. You've all done very well.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2010, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 29, 2010, 06:15:04 AM
Ok ... back on track here.
Is JOM overrated?
Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.
However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.
How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?
2/3 tops.
Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.
I don't know if any of the non-Mayo posters on this thread (and others) are actually reading or taking in what the Mayo posters have been saying. I don't think anyone in the county is expecting us to win the All-Ireland.
It's been said countless time, all we want and expect is that both the management and players perform to their potential when it matters. If that means losing at the q-final or semi-final or final, fine. Everyone can look back and say they gave it their all to the final whistle and we're proud of them for that.
We did not play to our potential against Meath last year, nor Cork last Sunday (nor 04 or 06 finals, but JOM and many of the current players weren't involved). That's what is so frustrating and disappointing. And that is what is causing a lot of Mayo people to view the county team with cynicism and even derision in some cases.
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2010, 11:35:37 AM
I think that's the way forward for Mayo. Structure the Championship like the under-8's. It's about participation, not winning. Everybody gets a game. Scrap the Sam Maguire and give everybody a certificate. You've all done very well.
Meath should be able for under 12s surely
Quote from: Tubberman on April 29, 2010, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2010, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 29, 2010, 06:15:04 AM
Ok ... back on track here.
Is JOM overrated?
Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.
However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.
How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?
2/3 tops.
Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.
I don't know if any of the non-Mayo posters on this thread (and others) are actually reading or taking in what the Mayo posters have been saying. I don't think anyone in the county is expecting us to win the All-Ireland.
It's been said countless time, all we want and expect is that both the management and players perform to their potential when it matters. If that means losing at the q-final or semi-final or final, fine. Everyone can look back and say they gave it their all to the final whistle and we're proud of them for that.
We did not play to our potential against Meath last year, nor Cork last Sunday (nor 04 or 06 finals, but JOM and many of the current players weren't involved). That's what is so frustrating and disappointing. And that is what is causing a lot of Mayo people to view the county team with cynicism and even derision in some cases.
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 29, 2010, 12:32:54 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on April 29, 2010, 11:12:47 AM
Quote from: Logan on April 29, 2010, 06:15:04 AM
Ok ... back on track here.
Is JOM overrated?
Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.
However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.
How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?
2/3 tops.
Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.
I don't know if any of the non-Mayo posters on this thread (and others) are actually reading or taking in what the Mayo posters have been saying. I don't think anyone in the county is expecting us to win the All-Ireland.
It's been said countless time, all we want and expect is that both the management and players perform to their potential when it matters. If that means losing at the q-final or semi-final or final, fine. Everyone can look back and say they gave it their all to the final whistle and we're proud of them for that.
We did not play to our potential against Meath last year, nor Cork last Sunday (nor 04 or 06 finals, but JOM and many of the current players weren't involved). That's what is so frustrating and disappointing. And that is what is causing a lot of Mayo people to view the county team with cynicism and even derision in some cases.
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
AOS reminds me a little of Joe Sheridan
I would think his career might develop in the same way
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.
Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?
I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.
I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.
But as people are saying especially at Senior Level it is very possible to reach an all-ireland final and then meet one of the 2 teams (ie Cork and Kerry) that are 2 levels above every other team out there.
In my view there is nothing between numbers 3-10 out there. But Cork and Kerry are miles ahead. Any team with the right draw in numbers 3-10 can reach the Final. But will be heavily beaten by the two named.
The gap between the top 2 and the rest is astonishing in my view.
I agree Logan, and I've said for two years now, but Aidan O'shea will not be a top level IC football, a decent one yes but not a top level one.
I disagree that Mayo have the footballers, all those relatively successful underage teams lacked any real quality stars. I remember seeing SON when he was U21 for Tyrone and I thought he'd go on to be a superstar, I didn't see anything similar in those Mayo teams. Last years minor FF I'm told is a great prospect but I've yet to be convinced from what I've seen.
I hate being so negative about the Mayo players but I can't see a top quality FB, center back, midfielder, center forward or scoring forward in Mayo at any level.
Quote from: Logan on April 29, 2010, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.
Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?
I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.
I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.
The question was where is the "potential". If you have won silverware you have upgraded yourself from potential winner to winner.
Quote from: Logan on April 29, 2010, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.
Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?
I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.
I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.
I disagree about the ruthless edge -they haven't got enough players of the required standard. Like galway, dublin, armagh etc. I had high hopes for AOS but jesus he's one paced. Maybe it was just one of those days. I think he'll be very good but not sure he'll be top class like I thought he might be. Mayo need him to be top class because he's a different type of player to the ones already there
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:45:07 PM
Quote from: Logan on April 29, 2010, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.
Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?
I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.
I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.
The question was where is the "potential". If you have won silverware you have upgraded yourself from potential winner to winner.
Yes, I'm suggesting the ruthless streak to get that upgrade is what they miss
If there's one thing Mayo needs its lectures in easy answers.
Quote from: Zulu on April 29, 2010, 02:44:25 PM
I agree Logan, and I've said for two years now, but Aidan O'shea will not be a top level IC football, a decent one yes but not a top level one.
I disagree that Mayo have the footballers, all those relatively successful underage teams lacked any real quality stars. I remember seeing SON when he was U21 for Tyrone and I thought he'd go on to be a superstar, I didn't see anything similar in those Mayo teams. Last years minor FF I'm told is a great prospect but I've yet to be convinced from what I've seen.
I hate being so negative about the Mayo players but I can't see a top quality FB, center back, midfielder, center forward or scoring forward in Mayo at any level.
Yeh, well I was trying to be polite about AOS - but you see what I see in him (or don't see for that matter).
Mayo's best chance was when Nallen and Brady were there, because they did have that cutting up in them.
I think they have enough good footballers to get out of Connacht.
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:53:03 PM
If there's one thing Mayo needs its lectures in easy answers.
Got enough of them anyway
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: shaund10 on April 29, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?
I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.
Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?
Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.
Yes but the only ones that stood out to me that looked like being a star at senior level were AOS and that Keane lad, i think, that handled Barry John Walsh. And even so, there's only a small chance that they will go on to top class.
You are unlucky in one respect, that the one player who looked nailed on for stardom is out living the dream in Australia
not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true
Do we? that second string cork team had a lot of players who have played in senior AI finals.
Quote from: rosnarun on April 29, 2010, 06:00:58 PM
not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true
Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.
If the game was played in Cork, then I'd back Mayo against a second string Cork team.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 29, 2010, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 29, 2010, 06:00:58 PM
not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true
Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.
You see this is part of the problem. When you are constantly told that you are not fit to share the pitch with other teams it has a drip, drip effect. This is what JOM was referring to when he said that this team can only be responsible for their own defeats. No young players (and there are quite a few on this team) should be unfairly burdened by the ghosts of the past. There is a certain whiff of condescension in some of the posters from other counties (honourable exceptions like Zulu,Indiana) regarding Mayo. Cast your mind back to the all-ireland hurling final in 2008. Waterford took the worst beating ever witnessed in Croke park and yet they were not treated as shabbily as Mayo always seem to be. The game was only two minutes old on Sunday when Martin McHugh was revelling in the 'typical Mayo forwards' speech.
Quote from: Zulu on April 29, 2010, 06:12:23 PM
Do we? that second string cork team had a lot of players who have played in senior AI finals.
I'd be thinking the same way. Especially in a final too, I know who I'd not be backing
Agreed.
Also it is time to stop surmising what might have been if we had won in 1996. Look at the hurling Champions from that year. They celebrated like it was the end of the world. (I lived with a quiet lad from Wexford who 'disappeared' for weeks. He never missed a day from work before that but his work were getting worried by the Thursday. He had some stories when he came back).
They have fallen from the top table of hurling and recently lost to Carlow.
Equally look at the team they beat that day, Limerick.
Both teams, like Mayo, had gone a long time without an All Ireland title. Both teams have fallen away in what is a much smaller playing pool.
Mayo deserve massive credit for bouncing back over and over regardless. I'd love a title as much as the next man but would a win in 1996 mean so much now if we were losing to Carlow and way off the pace in our Province?
Rather than being Wexford or Limerick hurlers I would like to see us more as Munster rugby before the breakthrough. The supporters always stuck with them and whatever about now there was a great romance about the pursuit of the 'Holy Grail'.
Quote from: Chimley on April 29, 2010, 08:06:09 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 29, 2010, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 29, 2010, 06:00:58 PM
not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true
Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.
You see this is part of the problem. When you are constantly told that you are not fit to share the pitch with other teams it has a drip, drip effect. This is what JOM was referring to when he said that this team can only be responsible for their own defeats. No young players (and there are quite a few on this team) should be unfairly burdened by the ghosts of the past. There is a certain whiff of condescension in some of the posters from other counties (honourable exceptions like Zulu,Indiana) regarding Mayo. Cast your mind back to the all-ireland hurling final in 2009. Waterford took the worst beating ever witnessed in Croke park and yet they were not treated as shabbily as Mayo always seem to be. The game was only two minutes old on Sunday when Martin McHugh was revelling in the 'typical Mayo forwards' speech.
That's a fair point.
From a Mayo perspective, looking forward, I would point to Tyrone.
20/25 years ago they were the 'Mayo of Ulster', if not Ireland, they couldn't finish a team for love nor money, but they kept at it and few would deny they developed a ruthless streak - but there was a mindset change that had to happen.
And to really throw the cat among the pigeons now ... while someone brought up Cork, from a psychological point of view Cork have choked a few times too many against Kerry on big days - so I guess glass houses, stones etc. Even Cork people would admit that I suspect in their quieter moments.
The point is ... all counties can go through phases, it's a matter of finding the switch to flick it out of that mindset.
(I personally was sad to see JK go to Galway, as he's the one man I think has the killer instinct that might have flipped that switch.... but that's for another day)
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2010, 08:24:37 PM
Agreed.
Also it is time to stop surmising what might have been if we had won in 1996. Look at the hurling Champions from that year. They celebrated like it was the end of the world. (I lived with a quiet lad from Wexford who 'disappeared' for weeks. He never missed a day from work before that but his work were getting worried by the Thursday. He had some stories when he came back).
They have fallen from the top table of hurling and recently lost to Carlow.
Equally look at the team they beat that day, Limerick.
Both teams, like Mayo, had gone a long time without an All Ireland title. Both teams have fallen away in what is a much smaller playing pool.
Mayo deserve massive credit for bouncing back over and over regardless. I'd love a title as much as the next man but would a win in 1996 mean so much now if we were losing to Carlow and way off the pace in our Province?
Rather than being Wexford or Limerick hurlers I would like to see us more as Munster rugby before the breakthrough. The supporters always stuck with them and whatever about now there was a great romance about the pursuit of the 'Holy Grail'.
2 points on that -
1. It is a credit that Mayo are always there or thereabouts
2. If and when the breakthrough comes it bodes well for a conveyor belt and steady stream of quality Mayo teams and quality footballers, who then know nothing but a winning mentality.
Quote from: Chimley on April 29, 2010, 08:06:09 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on April 29, 2010, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on April 29, 2010, 06:00:58 PM
not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true
Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.
You see this is part of the problem. When you are constantly told that you are not fit to share the pitch with other teams it has a drip, drip effect. This is what JOM was referring to when he said that this team can only be responsible for their own defeats. No young players (and there are quite a few on this team) should be unfairly burdened by the ghosts of the past. There is a certain whiff of condescension in some of the posters from other counties (honourable exceptions like Zulu,Indiana) regarding Mayo. Cast your mind back to the all-ireland hurling final in 2008. Waterford took the worst beating ever witnessed in Croke park and yet they were not treated as shabbily as Mayo always seem to be. The game was only two minutes old on Sunday when Martin McHugh was revelling in the 'typical Mayo forwards' speech.
Chimley, saying Mayo are not fit for Cork is not a slight whatseoever on the Mayo men,the fact is this Cork team is reckoned to be the most talented in the country and some people(Zulu especially ;D ) would say by a long shot and id agree with them.
Mayo competed better with Cork than probably 25 counties would.
Ive said my part in the other thread(or maybe in this one earlier on,i dont know) , that i believe JOM's management/coaching/game plan is obselete at this level and that this Mayo team could be much better with a modern coaching/game plan,i believe at this time Mayo are an above average team under O Mahoney,i think they could be a very good team under better management.Even then i dont think they could beat this Cork team,unless Cork had an serious offday,such is the ability in that cork panel.
Mayo have better talent in my opinion than all the other counties bar
Cork
Kerry
Tyrone
they would be on a similar level to the likes of Dublin/Galway/Armagh etc.
Also theres certainly no condescending attitude towards Mayo from myself,im from a county way down the food chain from Mayo,who could only wish to be a top 8 team,id always follow the Mayo men,alongside other traditionalists(Down/Roscommon etc) when my own lot were knocked out.
QuoteChimley, saying Mayo are not fit for Cork is not a slight whatseoever on the Mayo men,the fact is this Cork team is reckoned to be the most talented in the country and some people(Zulu especially ;D )
I'll have to contain myself from posting on Cork from now on, this is getting out of hand. :D
Quotei believe JOM's management/coaching/game plan is obselete at this level and that this Mayo team could be much better with a modern coaching/game plan,i believe at this time Mayo are an above average team under O Mahoney,i think they could be a very good team under better management
I'm not sure I'd agree there BM, I think Mayo are working much harder than they did in the past and there are signs that they have worked on their tackling and defensive set up. It should be remembered that they did make the league final on merit and only their final game against Cork (in Cork) could have had question marks over it. They were short some players all during the league so it wasn't a case of them being necessarily better prepared than their opponents.
I don't think anyone could do a significantly better job than JOM has. Mayo are unfortunately in the worst of positions, they have tradition, a recent history of relative success, plenty of decent to good IC players and recent underage success. Therefore it is understandable that supporters might feel they should be challenging for AI's and it is very understandable that they are so frustrated with their performances against the best teams on the bigger days. But they lack the 3 or 4 players of outstanding ability that turn you into an real contender and one that gets shown up when you meet the teams that are the real deal.
I still think BHM has a point that JOM's approach is out of date, the game has moved on a little.
Hard to say Logan, I wouldn't know enough about what goes on there every week but I'd be surprised if he wasn't up to date with things. I mean what is up to date? Tyrone's way of playing is now nearly 10 years old and the best bits have been taken on by others and modified a bit. BM could be right but I don't think there is clear evidence to back it up yet.
I don't know either, I'm just wondering if he's got the same hunger to be as innovative as when he was over Galway?
Has the new job taken more of his time?
Has he lost an edge? Are they being as 'professionally' trained and prepared as say Cork or Armagh?
There is no such thing as an unbeatable team. I don't buy it for a second. Least of all in a knockout competition.
Kerry couldn't be beaten in 2008. They lost.
Barcelona couldn't be beaten last night. They lost.
There is no such thing as an unbeatable team. John O'Mahony is completely correct in talking about positivity, but he doesn't deliver on that talk, and pusses about criticism or not being listened to instead. What's positive about that?
Rosnarun has summed up the whole debate:
Quote from: rosnarun on April 29, 2010, 06:00:58 PM
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
This is the thing. It isn't about winning. Some of those finals Mayo tried their best but lost to a better a team or shockingly poxy luck. And you can't legislate for that. But the team must play at their best, and when they don't we are entitled to know where the buck stops without having to tip our caps before entering the room.
QuoteThere is no such thing as an unbeatable team. I don't buy it for a second. Least of all in a knockout competition.
I agree 100% Iolar but Mayo don't have to worry about anyone else, all they can do is get their own house in order and if that is good enough then great, if not well then so be it. However, I'd like to know where things could be better and how that will be achieved. It can be easy to see the problems but it isn't always so easy to solve them, I wouldn't like to be in JOM's shoes at the moment.
Quote from: Zulu on April 29, 2010, 10:21:42 PM
QuoteChimley, saying Mayo are not fit for Cork is not a slight whatseoever on the Mayo men,the fact is this Cork team is reckoned to be the most talented in the country and some people(Zulu especially ;D )
I'll have to contain myself from posting on Cork from now on, this is getting out of hand. :D
Quotei believe JOM's management/coaching/game plan is obselete at this level and that this Mayo team could be much better with a modern coaching/game plan,i believe at this time Mayo are an above average team under O Mahoney,i think they could be a very good team under better management
I'm not sure I'd agree there BM, I think Mayo are working much harder than they did in the past and there are signs that they have worked on their tackling and defensive set up. It should be remembered that they did make the league final on merit and only their final game against Cork (in Cork) could have had question marks over it. They were short some players all during the league so it wasn't a case of them being necessarily better prepared than their opponents.
I don't think anyone could do a significantly better job than JOM has. Mayo are unfortunately in the worst of positions, they have tradition, a recent history of relative success, plenty of decent to good IC players and recent underage success. Therefore it is understandable that supporters might feel they should be challenging for AI's and it is very understandable that they are so frustrated with their performances against the best teams on the bigger days. But they lack the 3 or 4 players of outstanding ability that turn you into an real contender and one that gets shown up when you meet the teams that are the real deal.
I understand what you're saying Zulu.But id have questions over JOM's game planning/management.
You just have to read the Mayo club thread to know that the Mayo posters have been worried over their full back line for a while,id question why JOM didnt do something to cut down the space in front and the quality of ball into a gifted Cork forward line???.
Id also question whether JOM is willing to implement elements of the defensive structure that Tyrone/Armagh used successfully to counteract Kerry in the recent past.
Mayo play a lovely open brand of football which is easy on the eyes,but that alone will win you f**k all when it comes down to the serious stuff in August/September.
Any advance on 13 pages ::)
I said it before and i'll say it again. This man is nothing to write home about if his players aren't top class like Galway were.
He's only in this job to protect his political career, but is he going to actually damage his political career by staying on much longer.
He's starting to remind me of Rafa Benitez.
I'm involved in underage training with my club. And one of the things we constantly try to drill into the players is not to let the man you're marking have space. Well Sligo had space in abundance all day today and it was shocking the lack of ability of Mayo players to track their men.
Quote from: Shrewdness on June 05, 2010, 07:14:09 PM
Any advance on 13 pages ::)
I said it before and i'll say it again. This man is nothing to write home about if his players aren't top class like Galway were.
He's only in this job to protect his political career, but is he going to actually damage his political career by staying on much longer.
He's starting to remind me of Rafa Benitez.
Yes. Don't sack him, please!
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 05, 2010, 09:05:42 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on June 05, 2010, 07:14:09 PM
Any advance on 13 pages ::)
I said it before and i'll say it again. This man is nothing to write home about if his players aren't top class like Galway were.
He's only in this job to protect his political career, but is he going to actually damage his political career by staying on much longer.
He's starting to remind me of Rafa Benitez.
Yes. Don't sack him, please!
he is not a bad manager, teams jump ship all too soon, give him another year and see if he can move them forward, if not shitcan his arse.
Stew, are you living abroad?
Quote from: REDCOL on April 27, 2010, 10:51:59 PM
Iorlar, your condition on naming the shirt numbers makes it impossible to have a bet who knows who will wear 8 and who will wear 9 for example, but I will name 15 players who I believe will play and if i dont get 12 right i will happily give 100 euro to cancer care west
David Clarke Andy Moran
Keith Higgins Aidan O Se
Donal Vaughan Conor Mortimer
Kevin Mc Loughlin Ger Cafferkey
Seamus O Se Peadar Gardiner
Ronan Mc Garrity Enda Varley
Alan Dillion
Trevor Howley
Trevor Mortimer
Some good news I did win my bet with 12 players correct