IS JOHN O'MAHONY OVERRATED AS A MANAGER???

[Beard]

A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.

While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.

With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.

Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.

Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.

In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.

[ross4life]

Not Talking About Sligo V Roscommon Semi Sligonian  Imo John needed a turning point in his career to finally win a all Ireland & that was it!

P.S i well aware what happened in those Games i was at them & Roscommon were the better team in the Replay

[GalwayBayBoy]

Is Johno one of football's greatest ever managers, as evidenced by his 2 All Ireland's with Galway, and a famous 1994 Connacht Title with Leitrim??.........or in the case of Galway, was he just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time as an exceptional crop of players emerged such as Meehan's , Joyce, Donnellan, Divilly etc?.......Could most top managers have won an All Ireland with those players?

John Divilly will be delighted to make that list ahead of the likes of Ja Fallon, Sean Og, Kevin Walsh, Tomas Mannion, Paul Clancy, etc.

[ildanach]

think this thread is best left until the end of september (god willing!) or when ever we go out of the championship. Hopefully lessons will have been learned after yesterday. That is how we should judge johnno.

[rosnarun]

think this thread is best left until the end of september (god willing!) or when ever we go out of the championship. Hopefully lessons will have been learned after yesterday. That is how we should judge johnno.

and if if not this year well definitely have to examine his role if we fail next year and put him on his guard for the year after and well only give him one least chance after that

[Zapatista]

no hes not overrated
but he is the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons

I don't know if that makes sense? If he's all that then he is overrated. It has already been claimed on this thread that previous success was due to being in the right place at the right time.

[moysider]

It depends who is doing the rating I suppose. I know very few people in Mayo who rate him highly - except Grannies on Midwest radio phone-ins. Or ever have. Most people down here saw him as self serving and as a mercenary. Few shed a tear after him when he was let go in 91. Many still blame him for losing the 89 final. One thing that day was his slowness to act and try and cope with a rampant Dave Barry. Yesterday O Connor running riot at 11 and no action taken. 20 years on and plus ca change. I rem as a young..ish lad the morning after 89 final, being told, by a former county captain, that he should never be let manage a Mayo team again. He s never had the tactical nous but the bus will always be spanking new and on time. And there ll be no chips with players meals.
This being Mayo things get a bit surreal and he goes and wins stuff with Leitrim and Galway, and some of his biggest wins were against us. Did he get lucky? Yeah I think so. Mayo were putrid allowing Leitrim over the line in 94. It was more about how bad Mayo were than anything Johnno did. If that didn't happen he wouldn't have got the Galway gig. Would other managers have won 2 with Galway? Likes of Val Daly or Bosco probably wouldn't but he had several top class players coming through all at the same time and a few battle hardened vets like Walsh, Mannion and Seán Óg. He won it in his first year with them. That says a lot. Likes of Donnellan, Joyce and Savage win it in their first serious championship year!  And there weren't enough classy teams around to exploit a few awful journey men. Or canny managers for that matter. Johnno was at home in the era of Paudí, Billy, Boylan and Micko but the others had too much savvy for him. The game has moved on.

[ardmhachaabu]

I don't think he can be rated over one match which seems to be what the OP is really asking.  I was with a Mayo man in Croker yesterday and I felt the man's pain.  Cork are a class side though so I don't read too much into the result.  Certainly Mayo have a lot to do as was evidenced yesterday but it's like this, the lessons they learned yesterday will bode well for them later in the year.  In my opinion, Cork are the team to beat in Croker in August this year

[moysider]

I don't think he can be rated over one match which seems to be what the OP is really asking.  I was with a Mayo man in Croker yesterday and I felt the man's pain.  Cork are a class side though so I don't read too much into the result.  Certainly Mayo have a lot to do as was evidenced yesterday but it's like this, the lessons they learned yesterday will bode well for them later in the year.  In my opinion, Cork are the team to beat in Croker in August this year

Now that is what you would expect to happen but I wouldn't hold my breath to be honest. I have my doubts they will learn anything. Maybe a new psychologist might work! Excuse the cynicism but we've been here before with Johnno. The glaring deficiencies in Mayo s game yesterday are nothing new. Since he came back we ve had to suffer some of the worst goings over we ever experienced to Galway and Derry. And don't start about Meath last year. That was the game that sent Mayo people for cover. Many still had the hurt of 96 and expected a last stand from this new Johnno team. What we got was watery capitulation. This from a man who slighted Mickey Moran when he said he would love to be preparing a Mayo team for an AI final. In all my years I have never seen Mayo people abandon the team as they have done last few years. There was nobody at yesterday s game. In spite of finishing top div 1 nobody trusts this set up( after yesterday you can see why). Sadly the most common attitude about to the county team now is mostly ambivalence, embarrassment and even hostility. And this is from football people.     

[ardmhachaabu]

I know what you mean moysider, my mate is from Charlestown, he was telling me about the politics of everythng there.  Some of what is going on is plain stupid, if a player is good enough they should be on the panel and if they deserve to start they shouuld start.  At this point, it's hard to know what Mayo's options are

[GalwayBayBoy]

I don't think he can be rated over one match which seems to be what the OP is really asking.  I was with a Mayo man in Croker yesterday and I felt the man's pain.  Cork are a class side though so I don't read too much into the result.  Certainly Mayo have a lot to do as was evidenced yesterday but it's like this, the lessons they learned yesterday will bode well for them later in the year.  In my opinion, Cork are the team to beat in Croker in August this year

In all my years I have never seen Mayo people abandon the team as they have done last few years. There was nobody at yesterday s game. In spite of finishing top div 1 nobody trusts this set up( after yesterday you can see why). Sadly the most common attitude about to the county team now is mostly ambivalence, embarrassment and even hostility. And this is from football people.   

Seemed to be a very poor turn out at the game alright. Was definitely more people there from Down and Armagh and half of them cleared off after the first game. You expect the Cork footballers to have a poor enough following but Mayo nearly always bring a big crowd.

[mckieran]

ross4life, geez get over it. Refs make wrong decisions all the time. If Roscommon were good enough to win an AI in 1998, they would have beaten Galway in the replay. They didnt and and they didnt deserve to.

I dont think O'Mahony is over rated. Sure, He took over Galway at a particualrly good time. But then again, Val Daly took over Galway in '97 and didnt use the players to the same effect as O'Mahony did in '98.

I also dont think he has done a terrible job with Mayo and actually think they are a far better team than they showed on Sunday. The time to judge O'Mahony's tenure as Mayo boss could be at the end of this year

[ross4life]

ross4life, geez get over it. Refs make wrong decisions all the time. If Roscommon were good enough to win an AI in 1998, they would have beaten Galway in the replay. They didnt and and they didnt deserve to.

another chap taking me up Wrong! Roscommon deserved to win but that's not my point! some managers needs that kind of moment to turn things there way! John got that you can't say he didn't

[rosnarun]

no hes not overrated
but he is the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons

I don't know if that makes sense? If he's all that then he is overrated. It has already been claimed on this thread that previous success was due to being in the right place at the right time.

not over rated in my view because for from a year before he got the job it was obvious he was going to be a disaster and nothing he has done in the mean time has changed my view. he is yesterdays man we may as well have appointed Eugene Mcgee

[shaund10]

i wonder what John would have won if Derek Thompson didn't pass the Ball to Michael Donnellan in 1998 or if the backdoor wasn't introduced in 2001 what if indeed?

What would have happened if Galway hadnt kicked countless wides in those 2 games they dominanted in 1998? Or if they hadnt been decimated by injuries early on in 01. When both teams met in the QF, Galway ran out easy winners i seem to remember.

Nobody can take away his success with Leitrim, but to be honest, I would have won an All Ireland with a team that contained Fallon, Mannion, De Paor, Walsh, Joyce, Finnegan and Donnellan. In fact, theres grounds to say that he shouls have won more than 2 All Irelands with that crop of players