IS JOHN O'MAHONY OVERRATED AS A MANAGER???

[Turlough O Carolan]

Johno also managed Mayo to an All-Ireland U21 title in 83. Even if he never wins another thing, his record is impressive.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Johno also managed Mayo to an All-Ireland U21 title in 83. Even if he never wins another thing, his record is impressive.

And this one.

A stunning first-half display saw a rampant Galway completely overwhelm their Dublin counterparts to set up a convincing 0-15 to 0-07 victory in the All-Ireland Under-21 football final at Portlaoise's O'Moore Stadium. With captain Joe Bergin driving the team forward from midfield and Michael Meehan clinical in attack, The Tribesmen held an amazing 0-08 to 0-01 interval lead following a one-sided first-half. Despite a significant improvement from The Dubs after the break, the John O'Mahony led Connacht champions always had enough class in reserve to seal a deserved victory following a disappointingly one-sided contest.

Bergin, who has been a key player in O'Mahony's senior team, led by example with an authoritative, all-action display which deservedly earned him the Man of the Match award. However, he was ably assisted by Kieran Fitzgerald and Matthew Clancy, while Meehan's impressive tally of five points was equally crucial in securing Galway's first U-21 title for almost 30 years.

Galway were five points up with just 14 minutes gone as Dublin, despite a number of Leinster senior medal winners in their ranks, failed to find any rhythm or resistance in the opening exchanges. Indeed, the highly fancied Dubs only registered their first score of a largely fruitless afternoon with 25 minutes gone through Alan Brogan.

That failed to provide the spark for deflated Dublin, and although the probing of Brogan and Thomas Quinn gave them a glimmer of optimism during a more balanced second period, there was never any doubting the destination of this year's title as Galway ran out convincing winners in the end.

[magpie seanie]

Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.

Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.

Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.

Galway wouldn't have won without him. Very surprised to see him mentioned as a weakness, how many counties would take him at his peak now? Especially Mayo.

Yeah, Gary Fahy was a pretty good full back, especially in the late 90's. Divillly played well in the latter stages of the '98 championship. As for Silke.....he collected the cups and spoke well.

[Logan]

A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.

While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.

Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.

Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.

In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.

This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.

Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.

Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.

Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.

I agree with those comments about Fahy, very underrated and while not a sparkler - as was pointed out - How many times did he get cleaned out (apart from God - but then again who didn't he destroy).

One interesting point about both Divilly and Silke is that - while on 'average' or over their whole IC career they might not have had amazing performances - the years that Galway won something and did well both those stood up and often had critical games for Galway. 
Not to mention the supporting cast wasn't half bad either!

[IolarCoisCuain]

It's not true to say that nobody in Mayo believed in O'Mahony, as Moysider said in one of the other threads. I believed in him.

I remember listening to Johnno's radio show streamed on Mid-West in my Dublin exile in 2005 or so, and feeling like a member of the French resistance listening to DeGaulle during the war.

O'Mahony's had the track record in his previous posts. He had. Whatever the philosopher's stone was, O'Mahony appeared to have it. He'd achieved, in difficult conditions with three different counties.

And then finally got the job. And then he started spinning, and I started to wonder: have I been sold a pup here?

In 2007, Mayo bit the bullet against Derry after a League campaign very similar to this year's. Fair enough – first year in charge, legacy issues, let's wait and see.

In 2008, the McDonald thing broke. Instead of coming out and saying what was going on, O'Mahony tried to put the thing under the carpet on the basis that the media-reticent McDonald would hold his whist. But the outraged and hurt McDonald didn't, and O'Mahony ended up doing a face-saving interview on MWR the morning the Indo published their McDonald interview, with Jean-Jacques Humbert of the Resistance listening aghast here in the office. 2008 was a so-so season – not great, but not disastrous either. Still wait and see.

In 2009, O'Mahony had built his own team and won the Connacht title. Things were looking up. But the freeze against Meath was as bad as anything we'd seen in the bad old days, and O'Mahony was not being asked the questions in the media that the supporters wanted to know – about his initial team selection and the decisions made on the line when things started to go pear-shaped.

There was a lot of chat about team-building in the league this year but that didn't happen either. What actually happened was that Mayo hammered a Galway team that were weak as kittens due to their Joe Kernan fitness regime not having a footnote for giving Mayo a game in February, and then kept that team all through the league. Who here can make a stab at naming the XV that will start against Sligo? Clarkie in goals, McGarrity in midfield and after that I couldn't tell you. What's built there?

There was this talk about sports psychologists in the aftermath of Meath. If so, why did we see the exact same problems replicated against Cork as we saw against Meath? The caught-in-the-headlights freeze on the pitch and on the sidelines, the lack of pride and direction and leadership.

We've had four years of teambuilding. What do we have? An overweight and undercoached Aidan O'Shea, Tom Parsons broken and looking doomed, no place found for Aidan Campbell or Michael Conroy.

And nowhere is O'Mahony being asked to account for this. The great Ross Matt says he's an accomplished media performer but the media are not asking Johnno the questions that the people of Mayo want to know. Why no subs Johnno? What's happened Parsons Johnno? Have you anything to say to console your people Johnno?

The national media won't ask him because they don't care what happens Mayo football. They just need copy, and Johnno is always willing to give interviews. The local media daren't ask him because Johnno does not care for the thinking of un-Johnno thoughts, and the Board clearly don't give a continental feck as long as he holds a third seat in Mayo for Fine Gael.

Johnno has successfully spun the line that he can only tell the players what to do, and it's up to themselves after that. If they win, they listened, and if they lose, they didn't. Heads Johnno wins, tails the players lose.

And I'm sick of being asked to believe this rubbish when the facts are clearly at variance with the spin. Sick of it. Johnno's record with Mayo, Leitrim and Galway can never be taken away from him, but he looks like a man whom time has passed by now. I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think I am. I really don't.

[Tatler Jack]

Faraor tá an ceart agat Iolar!!

[Rossfan]

Aontaím le Tatler agua Iolar ... Bhí a lá aige.

Started off enjoying this thread till I came across mention of the Aughna fcukin Sheelin Red headed *******
We will never get over the deliberate downing of a team by a biased %%%%%%%%%%%%

[ross4life]

Aontaím le Tatler agua Iolar ... Bhí a lá aige.

Started off enjoying this thread till I came across mention of the Aughna fcukin Sheelin Red headed *******
We will never get over the deliberate downing of a team by a biased %%%%%%%%%%%%

I guess you talking about Seamus Prior! others Fan's won't know what where talking about! but Us Rossies will NEVER forgive or Forget

[Rossfan]

I refuse to even mention  that "nice man's" name. 
We can get over Relegation to D4, Relegation to D 3, hammerings in bloody Castlebar, having Maughtan as manager,  but that day of infamy where a ref decided he couldnt let Galway be knocked out of the championship ...........

[myball22]

I thought that in the drawn game between Galway and Roscommon in '98 Prior had made his mind up quite early on that he was making a draw out of the match. I remember him pulling Donnellan for a foul pass after he put someone through on goal and it was never a foul pass. He was always making a draw of it, it didn't matter what team got ahead at the end of the match, he would have levelled up the game.

To my mind I think O'Mahony's record speaks for itself but maybe time has caught up with him in the way it did with Sean Boylan. Will still be grateful for him for what he did for Galway. I don't think anybody could have won an All-Ireland with that team. It's easy to forget that Kevin Walsh was not rated in Galway prior to '98 and a lot of people would have had Ja and Michael Donnellan at midfield taking away from the forward line. And he placed Padraic Joyce at full forward where most of his underage career was played at wing-forward.
I think this thread reminds me of "he is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy" 

[ross4life]

I refuse to even mention  that "nice man's" name. 
We can get over Relegation to D4, Relegation to D 3, hammerings in bloody Castlebar, having Maughtan as manager,  but that day of infamy where a ref decided he couldnt let Galway be knocked out of the championship ...........

i Met him in person since & his laugh still angers me 

[Beard]

A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.

While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.

Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.

Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.

In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.

This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.

Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.

Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.

Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.

I agree with those comments about Fahy, very underrated and while not a sparkler - as was pointed out - How many times did he get cleaned out (apart from God - but then again who didn't he destroy).

One interesting point about both Divilly and Silke is that - while on 'average' or over their whole IC career they might not have had amazing performances - the years that Galway won something and did well both those stood up and often had critical games for Galway. 
Not to mention the supporting cast wasn't half bad either!

I think that it is a testament to O'Mahonys man management that he got the best out of the lesser players on the big day and crucially he also got teams to peak at the right time in the championship.

[spectator]

Is he overrated as a manager?

I feel he probably is but, against that, too much is being expected from him.   

IMO, the fans have to get behind him as they don't have any other option.

"If you had asked me even three or four years ago would I be here, I'd have said 'no' but most things in my life I've done because I've been asked to do them. Schools football, club football, intercounty football, refereeing, politics. I see these things as challenges you take up, as services you offer, as help you give and politics was no different."

"Is he the best manager in Gaelic football? Other than Mick O'Dwyer there's no one else who's guided three different counties to provincial titles. Sure, Mayo and Galway were always expected to win a couple just as O'Dwyer was expected to dominate with Kerry but his victory with Leitrim in 1994 was as impressive as anything O'Dwyer managed with Kildare or Laois. As were the couple of All Irelands with Galway in 1998 and 2001. As were the under-21 All Ireland titles with the big two in Connacht. There's no definitive answer as to which tops the list, it's just wherever either man has traipsed, success has sprouted."


http://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/jun/22/relishing-a-brave-new-world/

[IolarCoisCuain]

While I am not a big fan of JOM some of IolarCoisCuain points need addressing.

An overweight and undercoached Aidan O'Shea - We are giving out about small players, AOS is a big man he does not need to be in peak condition until championship are you sure he is overweight?

I don't know. I never lifted him. I heard a guy in the crowd ahead of me saying "hasn't O'Shea a big arse for a young lad?" to his mate and it kind of stuck in my head because I enjoy a spake. I'm not dogmatic on this one one way or the other, to be honest.

No place found for Aidan Campbell or Michael Conroy. - Mike Conroy only home from Australia having not kicked a ball for 8 months.  Aidan Campbell has disciplinary issues why was he not played in the U21 all Ireland semi final. Let him prove himself in Division 3 with Swinford.

Is it not a manager's job to deal with disciplinary issues rather than just chucking a man in the bin?

Who here can make a stab at naming the XV that will start against Sligo? - 12 or 13 of the team that will line out are well known to anyone with a passing interest in Mayo Football.

I'll tell you what - we're all sportsmen here. I will bet you €100 that you can't name 12 of the starting XV against Sligo in their correct positions. Money goes to Cancer Care West: https://www.cancercarewest.ie/.

We'll get a moderator to volunteer to hold the money, and you agree to post your team here before the end of next week, 5 o'clock May 7th. I'm not even asking for a correct team now - I'm only asking them for your own low number, 12, and their positions. If they are "well known to anyone with a passing interest in Mayo football" as you say, it'll be like taking candy from a baby. You'll do a good deed by a charity that deserves support, and you'll put a wiseguy like me smiling on the other side of his face. What do you say?

By the way can you tell me who will start for Kerry in the first round of Munster, or who will start for Dublin in Leinster.

Haven't a bog. Don't care either. I tend to pay more attention to Mayo. Kerry and Dublin can paddle their own canoes. Maybe someone from there can tell us - maybe 12 to 13 of their teams are well known to anyone with a passing interest in football.

It is time we get behind JOM and the players and leave the negative stuff until the championship is over.

You know Redcol, with the greatest of respect, the fact that you think there will be negative stuff when the Championship is over tells me that you're just as worried about the team as I am. You see it as disloyal to mention these concerns when the Championship is looming. I don't. I believe in freedom of speech and honest opinions honestly held. I stand over everything I wrote here, with the possible exception of mentioning players by name. I do regret that. But I am sick, sore and tired of being spun and told to buy a glass hammer.

Anyway - what do you say about the bet? Name a XV here by May 7th, and if you have twelve of fifteen correct, in their starting positions, I'll donate €100 to Cancer Care West and I'll do it with a song in my heart. If not, you stump up the dough. What do you say?

[IolarCoisCuain]

By the way lads, I notice that there are two separate discussions going on here - is Johnno over-rated as a manager, and is he the right man to manage Mayo now. I don't think he's over-rated as a manager because of what he's achieved. There is no denying his achievements. But judging him in the now, I'm not at all sure that he's the right man to manage Mayo currently. Not sure at all.