IS JOHN O'MAHONY OVERRATED AS A MANAGER???

[Club Rossa]

Not sure if he's overrated but all i do know is that Paidi would have won the National league at the weekend if he had been over Mayo

[deiseach]

Nobody can take away his success with Leitrim, but to be honest, I would have won an All Ireland with a team that contained Fallon, Mannion, De Paor, Walsh, Joyce, Finnegan and Donnellan. In fact, theres grounds to say that he shouls have won more than 2 All Irelands with that crop of players

I wouldn't be too sure about that. People forget that Galway had carried a stench of failure about them just as bad as anything you could say about Mayo, e.g. losing to 12 man Dublin. Under O'Mahony they got to the point where they shattered the aura of invincibility that Sean Boylan's Meath carried around.

[Hardy]

I just want to congratulate all concerned that we have got to four pages on this topic and the phrase "attractive football" has been used only twice (in the one post, as it happens). Shame on the Cavan person from Ballyhaise responsible, whose username I won't mention but well done everyone else.

[adevvabr]

He was also the manager of St Brigids in 1997 when they won there first county title in 28 years and involved as selector when they won the connaught title in 2006.

[deiseach]

No way. Galway and Mayo were neck and neck from 95 on. in 1998 it was a bonus to win Connacht. Getting to the final was like a dream. On the day of the match all the money was on Kildare. Very few people gave Galway a chance. Leinster fuball was superior. It was the same in 2001. Mead were going to destroy Galway again because of Leinster fuball.

I certainly remember Kildare being favourites to win the All-Ireland. They were very confident, post-match parties booked etc. But were Galway really treating Connacht as a bonus? When I think of the ultimately successful minnows who had very close shaves (Ross Carr's equalising point in 1991, Clare late goal against Cork in 1995), it depresses the hell out of me

[sammymaguire]

I don't think any GAA inter-county football manager is over-rated. Tough job.

[ross matt]

I dont think Johnno is over rated. His success with Galway, Leitrim & Mayo ('89) not to mention his various club involvements are testament to his ability as  a manager and cant be all down to luck. He always comes across as organised, intelligent and professional in his media utterances and I've rarely heard any former players bad mouth him. He just brought Mayo to a league final where they were beaten by a hardened, experienced and very good Cork side. The championship has'nt even started and I'm amazed at how much negativity has been directed towards him and his methods. Mayo simply dont have the players at the moment to win an AI and thats not his fault but I still think he can get them to win connacht and make the AI semis this season. That being said he did appear to take the Mayo job for "political" reasons at the time and you would question how he can juggle the committments of a TD with that of an intercounty manager. But his body of work to date stands the test of time and I think it's completely unfair to suggest he's over rated.

[mckieran]

another chap taking me up Wrong! Roscommon deserved to win but that's not my point! some managers needs that kind of moment to turn things there way! John got that you can't say he didn't 

Am not taking you up wrong - You are whinging about a refereeing decison from 12 years ago - Get over it. If Roscommon were good enough that year, they would have taken Galway in the replay in Roscommon - They were not good enough.

You could point to some moment of "luck" from absolutely every manager. But those Roscommon matches came after he brought Mayo to an AI in 89 and won Connacht with Leitrim in '94. So I dont really see your point... He was already a very respected manager by then

O'Mahony also brought St.Nathys to a connacht final (Cant remember if they won) which is quite an achievement as they are not exactly a renowned football school.

Biggest fault of O'Mahony is how slow he is to make changes - He had me tearing my hair out back in his Galway days when he just wouldnt make a change until it was too late

[Lar Naparka]

think this thread is best left until the end of september (god willing!) or when ever we go out of the championship. Hopefully lessons will have been learned after yesterday. That is how we should judge johnno.

It's taken me until this morning to see the merit in what you are saying. After more than 50 years as an incorrigible Mayo supporter, I hope I can be pardoned if I my world goes a bit pear-shaped every time the senior team implodes on a big day.  Through dint of long practice, I've managed to cut the recovery time down considerably but the blues are never absent completely- not now and probably not at any time in the future either.
Like it or lump it, Mayo will have John O'Mahony in charge for the coming championships.
As my good friend, Tubberman puts it in his sig, "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." If that is indeed true, John O'Mahony is due for canonisation any day now and so are the team and its long-suffering followers. We had a bad-hair day on Sunday; no doubt about that. Still, we had a fine league campaign also; equally, no doubt about that.
Now, if Johnno can take heed of the lessons that plainly need to be learned, he will deserve all the glory that's there for the earning. Mind you, I'd feel he thinks the same as me: you can stuff all the glory that's going if you happen to win even once.
I don't accept the line of thought that says Armagh or Sligo would steamroll Mayo at the moment either.
Neither of them had to face up to a pack of revved up langers last Sunday like Mayo did.  I very much doubt that the pick of the pair of them, and you can throw in Down and Antrim also, would come out of the scrap any better.
Mayo played in a much more competitive league than any of them and made it to the final when they had been shortlisted for relegation at the outset. I think most Mayo supporters agree that O'Mahony was putting out the best side available last to him last Sunday. The most charitable conclusion must be that he still has some distance to go if Mayo are to win an All Ireland with him at the helm.
Is he overrated as a manager?
I feel he probably is but, against that, too much is being expected from him. I'll reserve judgement until I see what happens in the upcoming championships.  IMO, the fans have to get behind him as they don't have any other option. Because of his inflexible approach, he hasn't many options either. It is clear that he doesn't tolerate individualism of any sort; it seems to be very much a case of, "My way or the highway," with him.
As with most aspects of life, there are pros and cons to this.
"Johnno clearly likes to be the dominant personality in the dressing room but he s not able to cross the white line and his generals are too often cowed or to distracted when needed on big days. This 'butter me bread daddy' approach just isn't working."
That's the negative consequence, as Moysider puts it and I concur 100%. The present Mayo team is without leaders. They are a fine bunch of foot soldiers alright but there is no serious team in the land that doesn't have a number of strong characters throughout the field. Those are the men others look to for guidance when push comes to shove. I had really expected to find some of the senior players leading by example by now but, sadly, that isn't happening. I think those lads may have lost their bottle as a result of too many implosions in recent years but I'd also say the manager's overall approach could be a contributory factor as well.
Put it this way; if I were to be appointed as Mayo's sports psychologist, the first ass I'd have planted on my couch would be John O'Mahony's!

[mannix]

Sligo will be looking forward to june with great expectations, i cannot wait myself to see what MAYO will do on the day. Mayo will win no Sam this year but that reverse on Sunday should sting enough of them to do damage to a contender or two before bowing out, if not then I think some will move on with their lives without Mayo and jom will consider his position. Nobody in Mayo expects Sam in 2010, all we would like is effort on the day, and Mayo players owe themselves bigtime to perform and cut this wimping out in front of the whole country.And if it looks like we will be cleaned out then do not give them room to shoot, pack the defense with 12 men, anything but this being made look like a junior team by a team that was tamed easily themselves a few months ago.

[boojangles]

A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.

While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.

Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.

Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.

In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.

This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.

[small white mayoman]

A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.

While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.

Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.

Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.

In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.

This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.

true but the other 3 backs more than made up for them with meehan, sean og and mannion then throw  in a good midfeild and 6 fairly handy forwards so at the end of the day they had 11 really good players and a captain who could speak very good irish

[GalwayBayBoy]

A bit of a lucky general maybe. When Galway got out of Connacht in 1998 they beat Derry and Kildare to win the All-Ireland. These were two teams that west of Ireland teams did not have hang-ups about playing at the time and I feel if Mayo had beaten Galway in 1998 they might have gone all the way.

While Galway had some outstanding players at the time they had a fair few weaknesses at the back. I never rated Gary Fahy or Ray Silke and regarded John Divilly as one of the worst CHB's to win an All-Ireland. He nearly lost the Connacht final against the Rossies on his own. Therefore I think it would be stretching it to say it was a complete cake walk to manage Galway to those particular AI titles.
With Leitrim, you have to remember that it was also an excellent Leitrim team at the time. Players like Declan Darcy, Mickey Quinn, Seamus Quinn, etc. they pushed a decent Roscommon team all the way in 1990 and 1991 and finally made the break through under JOM.

Looking at his record briefly,
1989 - Gets Mayo to first AI final in 38 years;
1994- Wins a Connacht title with Leitrim for the first time in 67 years;
1998- Wins AI with Galway for the first time in 32 years.

Clearly he has a knack for pushing teams through psycological barriers however I don't think he has left any particular legacy in terms of style of football after him as say Mickey Harte has done. I also dont think has has managed to build a team from scratch apart from this current effort with Mayo.

In conclusion I think this season will tell us alot about his credentials. He has managed to get Mayo back into the long grass on Sunday which will suit them. It looks like Mayo aren't quite good enough to win an All-Ireland however if he can get Mayo to peak at this business end of the championship that is all that he can do. And if they can get to the semi final in form and full of confidence you never know what could happen. If he is a good enough manager to do this only time will tell.

This man speaks sense. Divilly, Silke and Fahy in the same back-line. It had to take a good manager to win 2 All-Irelands with these men.

Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.

Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.

Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.

[Tatler Jack]

JOM has made the mistake of trying to come back and for the wrong reasons. If his reason was a burning desire to bring Sam back to his native county or like Micko an unquenchable love of the game  then it might be forgiven but his current involvement was driven by a political agenda. And I think Mayo are suffering because of this. But now that he is in the job he cannot afford to step down either before he delivers an AI or the next election.

In his first stint with Mayo and his involvement with Leitrim and Galway he proved he had managerial skills – always thought he got teams organised, playing to their strengths and believing in themselves.  Maybe was a bit better with outside counties in the belief area than with his own but that is often the case.  I concede he did have some good fortune along the way especially in 1998 but a lot of other managers also got a bit of luck that their predecessors did not have. As Matt points out you really have to play under a manager to rate him and from what I know the Leitrim and Galway players (and St Brigid's) rated him. I suppose anyone that manages to win 2 Ais with a CHB like Ray Silke must have something going for them!!

However since his second coming in Mayo I cannot see what he has brought or is bringing to the team that Maughan or M&M did not.  He was instrumental first in Maughan stepping down by giving the impression that he was ready to come back and then changed his mind.  When M&M surprisingly brought Mayo to an AI and in doing so beat Dublin in a genuine thrilling contest it would have been expected that they would get another chance.  However naked politics  came to the fore and Johnno's electoral chances were considered greater if he took up the challenge of managing Mayo. He duly got elected but Mayo found themselves beaten in the first round by Galway in the middle of an election campaign. And while Mayo continue to be a top 7 or 8 team since then it is hard to know how much of the credit should go to JOM – in my view they have a very good panel players, considerable strength in depth and there is no reason that they should not be aiming for AI honours.  I don't think though that JOM is the man to do it. First I think he has not the time as the jobs of TD and manager are both time consuming. Second I think his best years in management are behind him and Mayo would be better off with someone like Noel Connelly in charge and if they want to use Johnno as some sort of advisor. One of his failures(alluded to by other posters) is his failure to develop leaders and to develop individuals.  In fact with McDonald, Nallen and Brady gone Mayo have less leaders now than 3 or 4 years ago.

Last Sunday's loss was bad for Mayo – more the nature of it than the actual loss. All they need now is an election to be called in June in the run up to the Sligo game!!! Actually I think they will beat Sligo and win Connacht but unless he gets a sudden return of the good fortune of '98 then the AI will remain elusive. A pity as I believe Mayo have players as good as any county have.

[muppet]

Gary Fahy was a criminally underrated full-back IMO. I rarely saw anyone get the better of him even though people seemed to assume he would be taken to the cleaners nearly every game he played and it just didn't happen. He was so unfussy in his play he never really caught the eye but he did get an All-Star it must be remembered.

Granted Silke and Divilly were just journeymen really even though Silke in fairness was a good voice to have in the dressing-room as some of the lads on that team were very quiet and introverted (for example Ja and Donnellan) and Silke for all his faults could do the talking for five players.

Most All-Ireland winning teams carry a couple of journeymen anyway and that Galway team was no different.

Galway wouldn't have won without him. Very surprised to see him mentioned as a weakness, how many counties would take him at his peak now? Especially Mayo.