The Many Faces of US Politics...

[muppet]

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/11/28/tensions-mount-in-united-states-after-cops-shoot-black-friday/

TENSIONS have grown today in the USA, as reports began to emerge that members of the Police Department had shot and killed Black Friday.

Black Friday, the day following Thanksgiving, is traditionally known as the start of the Christmas shopping period in America. Many stores open early, and offer huge discounts leading to a massive surge in customers throughout the day. However, this huge increase in trade has on occasion resulted in violent outbursts from shoppers, leading many retailers to express concern and increase security for the day.

Following 911 calls yesterday from stores warning police that Black Friday was approaching, officers across all 50 states began firing their weapons until emergency services pronounced Black Friday to be dead. Calenders rolled straight into Saturday the 29th, causing a huge social upheaval which many fear will escalate into violent riots.

"Black Friday is a peaceful day, never did any harm to anybody, but all of a sudden the police just roll up and shoot it dead" said one furious shopper.

"They'll say they were just responding to a 911 call from concerned stores, but there's 51 other Fridays every year that don't get shot, and you and I know both know why; 'cause they ain't Black Friday. You don't ever hear about cops shooting no Good Friday".

Following the incident, the United States Justice department issued a statement in which it praised the bravery of the officers involved, and urged people across the nation to be calm following the unfortunate event.

"Early on Thanksgiving, we received calls from stores expressing their concern for the safety of both their staff and their customers, due to the impending arrival of Black Friday" said Jarrod Mackenzie, spokesperson for the Justice Department.

"Our officers quickly dealt with the situation, but when Black Friday continued to approach they had no choice but to resolve the matter using deadly force. People must appreciate the dangers faced by officers on duty, and I urge citizens to remain calm during these times".
Protests are expected to continue across the Thanksgiving weekend, as it was reported that officers involved in the shooting are to face no charges.

[seafoid]

That Killer Mike speech was very impressive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQs7CWKHM9w

http://www.nme.com/news/run-the-jewels/81347
•   
•   I would like to say Rest in Peace to Michael Brown. I would like to give all thoughts and prayers to the people out there peacefully protesting. I also give thoughts and prayers to the people who could not hold their anger in because riots are only the language of the unhold. We usually come on to Queen's 'Champion', but I just got to tell you today, no matter how much we do it, no matter how much we get shit together, shit comes along and kicks you on your ass. Tonight, I got kicked on my ass when I heard that prosecutor. You motherfuckers got me today, I knew it was coming when Eric Holder decided to resign. You motherfuckers got me today. You kicked me on my ass today, because I have a 20-year-old son and a 12-year-old son, and I'm so afraid for them today.

•   He continued: "When I stood on the bus, and I cried, and I hugged my friend, I said, 'These motherfuckers got me today.' When I stood in front of my wife, and I cried like a baby, I said, 'These motherfuckers got me today. You motherfuckers will not own tomorrow, we will not bend to your fear, we will not accept your pain, we are not going to keep playing that race card, because we know you don't value my skin. We know you do value his (El-P), but we're friends and nothing is going to devalue that."

"There was no peace in my heart and I wanted to walk out to 'Burn This Motherfucker Down'. But I got to tell you, I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, something said, 'Just look for something [Martin Luther King Jr] might have said,' so I Googled Martin King and Wikipedia popped up, and he was 39 years old when you motherfuckers killed him. He was the same age as I am, the same age as [El-P]. He was a young man when you killed him."

"But I can promise you today, if I die when I walk off this stage tomorrow, I'll let you know this: it is not about race, it is not a class, it's not about colour, it's about what they killed him for. It's about poverty, it's about greed, and it's about a war machine. It's about a war machine that uses you. So as I go tomorrow, I might go the day after, the one thing I want you to know is that it's us against the motherfucking machine!"

[seafoid]

How Ferguson Became Ferguson


http://www.epi.org/publication/making-ferguson/


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1e769634-29e6-11e4-914f-00144feabdc0.html

Only two miles east of the outraged young black men on Florissant, on the white side of town, a waitress at the Ferguson Brewing Company dressed in a tie-dyed T-shirt and serving flatbread pizzas and hoppy India Pale Ale to a more well-heeled clientele confides to a reporter that she really hasn't been paying much attention to the protests.
"It barely feels like it's happening in this town," she says. "I don't really know anything about that area down there. I pretty much just stay up here."

[Mike Sheehy]

How Waterford became Waterford...


http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/behind-the-news-anti-roma-protests-in-waterford-1.1983698

Gaby Muntean moved to Ireland in 2000 with her husband, seeking out a better life. "I left my son with my mother because I didn't speak English and we were illegal. It was very hard in the beginning. We had a few friends here but no family."

Muntean says she wasn't [legally] able to leave Ireland until 2007 when Romania joined the EU. "Then, I was free to travel and my father brought my son here." For years, it was impossible for Gaby and her husband to get work. They lived in Cork, then in Newbridge and for 10 years in Kilcock before moving to Sallins where they now live.

"I couldn't get paid work so I started doing voluntary work for the Roma community here. I did training in cultural mediation and since 2013, I have been paid for my work which makes life much easier." Her son completed the Leaving Certificate earlier this year and applied to join the Garda but he was too young. "He's working now and he will re-apply to the Garda and I hope he can join it."

Muntean is aware of prejudice against Roma people and says that she was "very scared by the protests" and Facebook campaigns against the Roma community in Waterford. "I'm not saying there isn't any criminality in the Roma community, just like you can't say there isn't any in the Irish community, but every bad thing that happens is blamed on the Roma or the Traveller community."

Speaking of how Roma are associated with begging, she says, "Some Roma people are forced to beg because they can't read or write or speak English. How else can they maintain themselves? I don't think it's a pleasure to be outside on the streets begging, but Roma people aren't homeless because we live together and protect each other."

Mantean says that she prefers not to dress in traditional Roma clothing when in public. "I try to blend in with others but at home, I do. I am proud to be a Roma woman and sometimes, I want to show people who I am and that not all Roma people are bad."

There is an estimated 5,000 Roma living here. They come from all over Eastern Europe – Hungary, Romania, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Germany.

"People ask me why we are outsiders? But we are not allowed into shops and pubs so what can we do? We are very close as a community but we don't trust authority." That said, many Roma people have become Irish citizens and have children who are Irish citizens. "There needs to be a better strategy for Roma people in Ireland," says Muntean.

Siobhan Curran, Roma project co-ordinator at Pavee Point Traveller and Roma Centre in Dublin, agrees. "The current strategy doesn't have any time- frame, goals or funding mechanisms. The European Commission asked every country in the EU to develop a Roma strategy but Ireland's strategy has been very poor compared to other countries."

Curran says the case where a Roma child was taken from her family in Athlone earlier this year highlighted stereotyping. "Before the DNA test confirmed the child was from that family, there was talk of Roma people being child traffickers. Stereotypes don't serve us well. There is no justification for 'hate crime' against Roma people. Attacks in other European countries have included several murders of Roma people. We don't want this to be a feature in Ireland."

Curran adds, "We need legislation to prevent online hate speeches and Facebook hate campaigns, and a strong National Traveller-Roma Integration Strategy on education, employment, healthcare and housing and racism."

[seafoid]

How Waterford became Waterford...


http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/behind-the-news-anti-roma-protests-in-waterford-1.1983698

Gaby Muntean moved to Ireland in 2000 with her husband, seeking out a better life. "I left my son with my mother because I didn't speak English and we were illegal. It was very hard in the beginning. We had a few friends here but no family."

Muntean says she wasn't [legally] able to leave Ireland until 2007 when Romania joined the EU. "Then, I was free to travel and my father brought my son here." For years, it was impossible for Gaby and her husband to get work. They lived in Cork, then in Newbridge and for 10 years in Kilcock before moving to Sallins where they now live.

"I couldn't get paid work so I started doing voluntary work for the Roma community here. I did training in cultural mediation and since 2013, I have been paid for my work which makes life much easier." Her son completed the Leaving Certificate earlier this year and applied to join the Garda but he was too young. "He's working now and he will re-apply to the Garda and I hope he can join it."

Muntean is aware of prejudice against Roma people and says that she was "very scared by the protests" and Facebook campaigns against the Roma community in Waterford. "I'm not saying there isn't any criminality in the Roma community, just like you can't say there isn't any in the Irish community, but every bad thing that happens is blamed on the Roma or the Traveller community."

Speaking of how Roma are associated with begging, she says, "Some Roma people are forced to beg because they can't read or write or speak English. How else can they maintain themselves? I don't think it's a pleasure to be outside on the streets begging, but Roma people aren't homeless because we live together and protect each other."

Mantean says that she prefers not to dress in traditional Roma clothing when in public. "I try to blend in with others but at home, I do. I am proud to be a Roma woman and sometimes, I want to show people who I am and that not all Roma people are bad."

There is an estimated 5,000 Roma living here. They come from all over Eastern Europe – Hungary, Romania, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Germany.

"People ask me why we are outsiders? But we are not allowed into shops and pubs so what can we do? We are very close as a community but we don't trust authority." That said, many Roma people have become Irish citizens and have children who are Irish citizens. "There needs to be a better strategy for Roma people in Ireland," says Muntean.

Siobhan Curran, Roma project co-ordinator at Pavee Point Traveller and Roma Centre in Dublin, agrees. "The current strategy doesn't have any time- frame, goals or funding mechanisms. The European Commission asked every country in the EU to develop a Roma strategy but Ireland's strategy has been very poor compared to other countries."

Curran says the case where a Roma child was taken from her family in Athlone earlier this year highlighted stereotyping. "Before the DNA test confirmed the child was from that family, there was talk of Roma people being child traffickers. Stereotypes don't serve us well. There is no justification for 'hate crime' against Roma people. Attacks in other European countries have included several murders of Roma people. We don't want this to be a feature in Ireland."

Curran adds, "We need legislation to prevent online hate speeches and Facebook hate campaigns, and a strong National Traveller-Roma Integration Strategy on education, employment, healthcare and housing and racism."

It has to be an academic article, I'm afraid.

[Mike Sheehy]

from the Padraig Nally thread..


http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=25206.0

containing the following comments....

Totally agree. Especially when the intruder is a gypo.

You obviously haven't encountered many gypos in your time.

Gypos are a scourge in this country. They had that man tortured. They do likewise all over the country, robbing, thieving, intimidating and doing whatever the fcuk they want. I have no sympathy for that Ward fella. None whatsoever. Nor would I for any other gypo who met his end in the same way.

Solution (the humane one, anyway) - gypo island.

which passed without comment by the same usual suspects that constantly berate the US about race relations.

Consistency....someday it might come to gaaboard. We live in hope.

[Mike Sheehy]

It has to be an academic article, I'm afraid.

Since you were the one that started the Padraig Nally thread that I mentioned in my last post and since you seemed to completely ignore the obvious racism contained it it perhaps you'd like to share with us your considered, academic opinion as to why you are so inconsistent about your views on discrimination.

Maybe you could submit a paper "A discriminates guide to discrimination and dog whistle politics"...by Dr. Seafoid..Ballinasloe IT

[Mike Sheehy]

and the Roma just happened to be the other major victims of holocaust in the second world war

....just sayin like....

...I'm not implying any strange inconsistencies about what is considered racism and what passes completely without comment......


...you are educated folk....you work it out.......

[whitey]

Lotta tangents going on here so I will try to keep it concise

(1) My comment re Gardai Sicohana being Guardians of the Peace is not something I concocted myself. I originally heard it at a lecture given by Renowned academic and prominent Sociologist Fr Michael MacGreil about 20 years ago. given my interest in politics and history I did some follow up reading and found ample evidence to back up his theory. Of course he could be flat out wrong!

(2) I have lived outside Boston for 13 years and lived in CT for 5 years before that. I drive 35000 miles per year for work and have NEVER once  seen a speed camera. Thats not to say they don't pull people over...but they use discretion...especially for speeding. If you're going less than 10 mph over the limit they won't stop you (exceptions are school zones and construction zones). I have read  and heard of speed cameras in Ireland nailing people for 2-3 Mph over the speed limit.

(3) Re respect for the law...I have the local weekly newspaper sent over from Ireland and I would say at least once a month there some case of a drunk abusing Gardai at closing time outside a chipper or nightclub. In my 20 years in the US I have never once seen a drunk breate or abuse a cop and believe me I used to be out ALL the time in some pretty rough pubs.

I was back in Ireland for Christmas a few years ago and the local Garda Traffic Corps were involved in a very serious accident. I was in a pub the following day and I heard a respectable older gentleman remark..."it's a pity the cvnts weren't killed". Completely anecdotal I know, but absolutely reinforces the opinion of the Guards of a lot of the people I know back in Ireland .

(4) The whole Ferguson thing doesn't add up. What would a kid who's never been in trouble before, rob a store, block traffic by walking in the middle of the road, then assault a cop and try to take his gun? There's something off about the whole thing and I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet, but I will tell you, if anyone posting on this board attempted to wrestle a gun from a cop, we would have met the same fate as Mike Brown....regardless of the color of our skin

[muppet]

(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

[seafoid]

(1) What theory? A history of the Gárdaí from 1922 - 1932 is not relevant to today's policing anywhere. In the context of your guardians of the peace argument, the irony that Eoin O'Duffy was in charge during that time will not be lost on some here.

(2) You are likely to get thrown straight into jail in some States if you are far enough over the limit. That would be extremely rare here. But again what is the point of this argument?

(3) So drunks in the US respect the police but drunks in Ireland don't? Even if this was universal and accurate (and remotely in the vicinity of being a fact), again what is the point here?

(4) The facts are an unarmed man was shot dead. It is a fact he stole $48 dollars worth of cigars. It appears he was walking not on the sidewalk. They are the established facts. There is other information which has contradictory accounts and thus can't be considered as 'facts'. You are still searching for something to justify this instant execution and your comment about trying to wrestle a gun from a cop is not an undisputed fact either. This comment also ignores that the cop was safe when an already shot and injured Brown was running (or stumbling) away from him. The cop was ordering him to stop, which he did. What happened next is again disputed but it seems unlikely that an already shot and injured, unarmed 18 year old man was really that much of a threat to a fit & well, 6' 4" cop with a gun.

Arguing about whether Brown was a model citizen is missing the point entirely and seems to be the way these things go in this modern era of spin. And boy are people easily spun. The issue is the burden of responsibility on police officer before he can decide to empty his gun into a citizen. That is the only issue here.

Muppet - I think there is also the system issue. This happens all the time . White cop shoots black man.

The Feds didn't shoot Cliven Bundy dead when he broke the law

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79xKxWbBYcw

Fox didn't drag his name through the mud either. the Tea Party didn't condemn him- they loved him

Killer Mike said it

"But I can promise you today, if I die when I walk off this stage tomorrow, I'll let you know this: it is not about race, it is not a class, it's not about colour, it's about what they killed him for. It's about poverty, it's about greed, and it's about a war machine. It's about a war machine that uses you. So as I go tomorrow, I might go the day after, the one thing I want you to know is that it's us against the motherfucking machine!"

And James Baldwin had another good point

"Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have"

[Carmen Stateside]

Lotta tangents going on here so I will try to keep it concise

(1) My comment re Gardai Sicohana being Guardians of the Peace is not something I concocted myself. I originally heard it at a lecture given by Renowned academic and prominent Sociologist Fr Michael MacGreil about 20 years ago. given my interest in politics and history I did some follow up reading and found ample evidence to back up his theory. Of course he could be flat out wrong!

(2) I have lived outside Boston for 13 years and lived in CT for 5 years before that. I drive 35000 miles per year for work and have NEVER once  seen a speed camera. Thats not to say they don't pull people over...but they use discretion...especially for speeding. If you're going less than 10 mph over the limit they won't stop you (exceptions are school zones and construction zones). I have read  and heard of speed cameras in Ireland nailing people for 2-3 Mph over the speed limit.

(3) Re respect for the law...I have the local weekly newspaper sent over from Ireland and I would say at least once a month there some case of a drunk abusing Gardai at closing time outside a chipper or nightclub. In my 20 years in the US I have never once seen a drunk breate or abuse a cop and believe me I used to be out ALL the time in some pretty rough pubs.

I was back in Ireland for Christmas a few years ago and the local Garda Traffic Corps were involved in a very serious accident. I was in a pub the following day and I heard a respectable older gentleman remark..."it's a pity the cvnts weren't killed". Completely anecdotal I know, but absolutely reinforces the opinion of the Guards of a lot of the people I know back in Ireland .

(4) The whole Ferguson thing doesn't add up. What would a kid who's never been in trouble before, rob a store, block traffic by walking in the middle of the road, then assault a cop and try to take his gun? There's something off about the whole thing and I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet, but I will tell you, if anyone posting on this board attempted to wrestle a gun from a cop, we would have met the same fate as Mike Brown....regardless of the color of our skin

Been living in NY 12 years now. Both your points in bold are wrong.  NY is littered with speed cameras, they are everywhere.  State troopers are steady with speed cameras out on all major routes in and out of city.
As for cops at closing time, the irish community in Yonkers has suffered at the hands of bully cops.  Several young irish lads has took beatings from off duty cops while their buddies sat in their patrol cars watching.
Uniformed cops patrol the area on saturday nights just like the RUC used to do in the North, intimidating young people and looking any excuse to arrest someone.

[Mike Sheehy]

This is quite shocking. For a nation where emigration has been a fact of life for generations why are we so intolerant toward immigrants to our own country ? There must be something systematic or perhaps something in the national character that causes us to have a complete blind spot to our own failings ??

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/huge-increase-in-racist-behaviour-in-ireland-29818634.html

Huge increase in racist behaviour in Ireland

THE number of people targeted by racist behaviour has almost doubled over the last year, new figures have revealed.

The Immigrant Council of Ireland described the 85% rise in racist incidents as "stark", with a fifth of attacks happening in the home or local community.

Chief executive Denise Charlton said while the figures that reflect the past 11 months are preliminary, the hike is still alarming.

"These initial findings show that racism can occur anywhere, people have been made victims in their own homes, at work, on the street and increasingly online," Ms Charlton said.

"We will now carry out analysis of the figures to see why our current laws are not preventing racism and examine what procedures can be in put place, including a reformed reporting system."

Some 142 racist incidents have been reported since January, compared with 77 over the same period last year

A YouTube video was posted of the man launching into a shocking racist attack on a London Underground train.

Keith Hurdle has admitted shouting verbal abuse at Kuniko Ingram, who works in human resources.

He left tube passengers horrified with his foul-mouthed rant after he claimed that the Japanese are a "vicious bunch of f****** c****."

Hurdle said his uncle died in the River Kwai during World War II, and accused the passenger of torturing him.

He was sentenced to 12 weeks in prison. He will serve half the time on licence.

Meanwhile, in Ireland, harassment, discrimination and physical violence were all reported to the council, with 31 incidents recorded in July alone.

While 21% of incidents occurred at the victim's home or in their local community, 20% happened in the workplace, 14% on the street, 12% while accessing government or community services, 12% online, 10% while travelling in public transport and the remainder elsewhere.

Verbal harassment accounted for more than a third of all types of abuse, followed by some form of discrimination at 24% and written harassment at 17%.

Just under one in 10 victims of racism were physically assaulted, 7% were targeted with damage to their property or graffiti and 7% with an offensive look or gesture.

Ms Charlton said the Immigrant Council had spent the last year pushing an awareness campaign on public transport and across social media to put an end to the complacency over racism.

"Our hope is that the increase we have reported is an indication that this has happened rather than an actual increase in racism," she said.

The council's information and referral manager Brian Killoran described the last 11 months as unprecedented in terms of the numbers reporting racist behaviour.

"People need to be continuously assured that they will be treated seriously when they make a report and that action will be taken," he said.

[Mike Sheehy]

Christ, I'm glad we are discussing this issue lads. The more you look into it the more you see the hidden systematic failures of the state

http://www.wsm.ie/book/export/html/7672

When the subject of power was brought up in discussion, the lads would say everything to do with gardaí, being working-class and living in a council estate is all about power networks.  The gardaí have the power and know exactly how to use it in certain situations.  The lads spoke about the "net" or being "netted" and this is, the lads explained, one of the gardaí's strongest tactics and one that can result in dangerous consequences for working-class youths.

The lads in the group spoke repeatedly about how there was no real middle ground in this situation and how this is the ground or the intersection of community policing where the gardaí really abused their power.
"It works this way, if a garda sees you talking to a group of lads he might stop the car and shout at you 'hey crack head, call up and see us again, like you did last week for a chat'.  This is all they have to say, the only saviour is that the lads you're with know what the Guards are like and know their tactics because it's been done to them".

"Towards the end of 2007, a young man, aged nineteen, from a deprived neighbourhood came to tell me that on the previous day he had been taken to a Garda Station for a drugs search, during the course of which he had been assaulted by several gardaí.  When no drugs were found on him, he was told to leave.  He claimed that as he was leaving he was shoved forcefully towards the door by a garda, which caused his head to smash the glass panel of the door.  He said that he was then brought back into the Garda Station and charged with assaulting the garda and causing criminal damage to the door".

Another issue that come up in discussion was the shooting of a youth in an ATM robbery.  The comments here were on how the papers praised the gardaí's actions,
"We know he was in the wrong but there was no need to kill him, no one knew anything about him.  He was alright he was, he just got desperate, he just became disposable.  The papers were full of back slapping for the brave guards involved.  Do you know what the papers said?  They said "This was a brave and successful bit of work by our force".

I had no idea there was such widespread abuse of power by the Gardaí...but, sure, how would anyone know since these things are never discussed. Much more fun to bash the yanks I suppose.

[gallsman]

How does the issue of racism in Ireland (which I agree is ornament and widespread) detract from the issue of racism in the states?

Your attempt to suggest everyone here is pulling the wool over their eyes about racism in Ireland is bullshit ("you are completely shit" as you might say). There was an entire thread devoted to the question of whether Ireland is racist or not. This thread is specifically about the US so take your misguided attempt at diluting the debate elsewhere. You might fancy yourself as a polemicist or academic - in reality you're nothing more than a troll.