The Many Faces of US Politics...

[muppet]

If you stop being facetious for a minute, you'll see that in this case I am not defending the cops at all. It looks to me like an over reaction, but as I said until you know the other facts, you're just taking an opportunity to jump to a conclusion that suits your own prejudices.

See that gun? If a lad waved that at me, the same way this young lad was waving it at passers by in that video, I'd be scared. In a tense situation, it's not unreasonable to think that's a real gun, or are you saying the cops should have known it was a toy?

I'm saying the cops should have been more careful, even in the manner of their approach. If it was a real gun, they were actually putting themselves in danger first. But what is the context here? I don't know, and I bet you don't either.

The context is a 12 year old boy is dead for playing with his toy gun. That is a massive failure of policing and a massive failure of society.

I agree. But I would put more blame on the society that created the situation in the first place.

But I would still like to know why, in this instance, these cops felt the need to get so close, so quickly, and open fire. That's what I mean about context.

I agree in that there simply has to be a reason that an otherwise fine citizen (he could hardly be a cop if he had a long criminal record) sees fit to shoot the kid dead in 2 seconds. For example it could be something small such as defective training or something more sinister such as a 'shoot to kill and we will clean up the mess' policy.

[deiseach]

As I noted yesterday, to hysteria from certain quarters, explanations to put seemingly trigger-happy American cops into 'context' use exactly the same language that was utilised by the Brits on the occasion of the latest atrocity by the security forces in the North. I didn't buy the it's-a-hard-job defence then, and I'm not buying it now. And having had a peeler in the family for all but five of the first eighty years of this state, my natural instinct is to side with forces of law and order. Having your uniform stolen by a gun-toting anti-Treatyite who wanted it to rob a bank and knew full well my grandfather wasn't packing heat - that was a hard job.

You equated Bloody Sunday and Aidan McAnespie with Michael Brown.
Different circumstances completely, not to mention it was the army who were the ones with the guns in this case, not the police.
But don't let that stop you...

Yeah, one was a GAA man and the other wasn't.

[seafoid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQs7CWKHM9w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewxNAXeafo

[macdanger2]

Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life

Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.

No, I didn't see the full interview tbf and fair enough if he was remorseful in the rest of the interview, his choice of words "clean conscience" leaves something to be desired though imo. It also seems strange to me for a cop who just shot an unarmed man to do a tv interview.

I'd agree with whitey in that Brown wasn't an immediate danger and shooting him dead was ott.

[whitey]

Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

[seafoid]

Hard to believe the policeman can have a "clean conscience" after shooting dead an unarmed teenager, shows how much he values another man's life

Did you see the full interview with the police officer?The "clear conscience" comment is strictly in relation to the confrontation and shooting of Mike Brown and nothing to do with how much he values another mans life.He says later on in the interview that he feels a lot of remorse about Browns death but of course that would not suit the narrative of the police officer being the bad guy.

No, I didn't see the full interview tbf and fair enough if he was remorseful in the rest of the interview, his choice of words "clean conscience" leaves something to be desired though imo. It also seems strange to me for a cop who just shot an unarmed man to do a tv interview.

I'd agree with whitey in that Brown wasn't an immediate danger and shooting him dead was ott.

The US can be quite weird.
It's strange to advertise prescription drugs on TV as well.

[muppet]

Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy would suggest otherwise.

[whitey]

Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy would suggest otherwise.

I don't understand your question...please clarify

Translation of Gardai Siochana is Guardian of the Peace.  To me that would suggest a gentler less confrontational application of the law

[seafoid]

Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy would suggest otherwise.

The person shot by the police in that Young Turks video from the other day was clearly suffering from some sort of mental illness, Muppet and that was also the case in Abbeylara.
I think 40% of people in jail suffer from some kind of mental illness.

[muppet]

Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy would suggest otherwise.

I don't understand your question...please clarify

Translation of Gardai Siochana is Guardian of the Peace.  To me that would suggest a gentler less confrontational application of the law

Whitey, are you from Ireland?

[whitey]

Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21

[Mike Sheehy]

Whitey, are you from Ireland?

Are you American ?
You and a few others on here seem to have an obsession with pointing out the flaws in American society. Maybe you should look closer to home.

[Main Street]

Jeez Deiseach ,what the hell are you on about?.Did you read anything about the case or are you just listening to Al Sharpton?  The eye witness"s who gave evidence said that Brown was charging at Wilson like a football player,so Wilson was justified in shooting him if he thought his life was in danger and the final shot was fired when Brown was 5 to 8 feet away.

He charged at the officer? While he was in the car? Or are you calling the changing in direction of the blood trail, after he had already been shot, as the charge?

I honestly don't know how the cops in Ireland manage.

Muppet....difference is in Ireland you have "Guards".....ie Guardians of the peace.   In the US we have Police who are heavily armed. In fact I would guess that some Police Special Ops Depts have better equipment than the Irish Army

Are you saying the Gárdaí would shoot as quickly if they were equally heavily armed?

The Abbeylara tragedy would suggest otherwise.

The person shot by the police in that Young Turks video from the other day was clearly suffering from some sort of mental illness, Muppet and that was also the case in Abbeylara.
I think 40% of people in jail suffer from some kind of mental illness.

Is your thinking  (40% of people in jail suffer from some kind of mental illness) based on anything of substance in particular, or did the idea just strike you irandomly
The prison statistic is actually much higher    but some kind of mental illness  is a normal response to incarceration, a prisoner  would experience any one or two of the tells  for mental illness (depression, anxiety, despair, suicidal thoughts etc) at any given time  due to a hundred different influences,  but "some kind of mental illness" doesn't quite describe our man in  the Abbeylara tragedy.

[muppet]

Yes...born and bred...and a B in Honors Irish in the LC to boot

And 2 Mayo Championshop medals as well-U16 and u21

Good man.

The reason I asked is it seemed strange (to me anyway) to literally translate An Garda Siochana and take that translation to identify a difference with another country's police force.

Police forces will obviously have different flavours and culture from country to country, but I would guess there are plenty of Gardai 'charged' week in week out around Ireland and they don't shoot to kill immediately. This came up on the discussion regarding John Morley murder whereby he fired over the heads of the INLA guys. One of them just turned and shot him dead.

[Mike Sheehy]

The only obvious lesson from that particular example is that John Morley should have shot to kill.