New book on Padraig Nally case

[orangeman]

A lot of people say they would pull the trigger. If placed in that situation, when you hear an intruder, I'm not sure how many people would actually pull the trigger and give an intruder both barrels. Saying you're going to do it and potentially take some one's life and actually doing it are 2 different things.

[BennyCake]

If someone breaks into your house you should not be prosecuted for executing them on the spot by whatever means at your disposal.

Totally agree. Especially when the intruder is a gypo.

So, if you rushed down stairs after hearing your back window go in, would you enquire whether the intruder was a gypo or not before blasting them to death with your rifle? Or when you have taken someone's life, would you be more content knowing that it was a gypo?

Some of you lads are mad or full of shite or both.

Firstly, I don't have a rifle. But I have a Hurley and would reach for it if needed.

Gypos are a scourge in this country. They had that man tortured. They do likewise all over the country, robbing, thieving, intimidating and doing whatever the fcuk they want. I have no sympathy for that Ward fella. None whatsoever. Nor would I for any other gypo who met his end in the same way.

[Agent Orange]

If anyone came into my house to rob me and put my family in danger...gyppo or not he would get both barrels if I had a gun. So what else would youse do gooders do? Shoo them out. Cop on.

There is a big difference between self defence and murder, when Nally reloaded and shot Ward again he committed murder.

True but there's also a big difference between a one-off intruder and someone serially terrorising an old man. Hard and all as it may have been for the Wards, I have little sympathy with the man who died

I have no sympathy for the deceased, but Nally committed murder and was allowed to walk free because of public opinion.

Where do you stand on the death of the innocent woman in last week's crash on the motorway slipway?

Traveller crime is the hidden war in Ireland today. Every daily paper, every weekly regional paper carries incidents or court case details involving 'extended family members'. Appeasement / kid handling is not the answer. Zero tolerance is called for.

I'm not aware of any death due to a crash on a motorway or its relevance to this discussion.

We as a society seem to value our worldy goods more than we value life, a sad state of affairs and indicitive of modern Ireland.

Where do we start with zero tolerance? Travellers, motorists, criminals, police, courts, polticians, government?

[orangeman]

How do we know someone breaking into the house is a traveller and should there be one course of action for travellers and some other action for others ?. Number 3 shells for travellers and something lighter for others ?.

This isn't making a lot of sense.

[BennyCake]

If someone breaks into your house you should not be prosecuted for executing them on the spot by whatever means at your disposal.

Totally agree. Especially when the intruder is a gypo.

So, if you rushed down stairs after hearing your back window go in, would you enquire whether the intruder was a gypo or not before blasting them to death with your rifle? Or when you have taken someone's life, would you be more content knowing that it was a gypo?

Some of you lads are mad or full of shite or both.

Firstly, I don't have a rifle. But I have a Hurley and would reach for it if needed.

Gypos are a scourge in this country. They had that man tortured. They do likewise all over the country, robbing, thieving, intimidating and doing whatever the fcuk they want. I have no sympathy for that Ward fella. None whatsoever. Nor would I for any other gypo who met his end in the same way.

Is this your opinion for just gypos or anyone who creeps in through a back window?

Anyone crawling in my window will get the same treatment.

[theticklemister]

If someone breaks into your house you should not be prosecuted for executing them on the spot by whatever means at your disposal.

Totally agree. Especially when the intruder is a gypo.

Bigotry and racism alive and well. God help us all

You obviously haven't encountered many gypos in your time.

Your wan fecking racist cnut. May all the bad luck in the world be cast on you.
A
I stopped reading this thread after this post.

May you don't pass on any of your evil thoughts to anyone.

[orangeman]

Only in Ireland could you shoot someone in the back, reload shoot him again and literally get away with murder.

or South Africa.... or California....Didn't recall anyone sayin that OJ was defending his property- yet he got away.

South African story currently in the news  - killed for a mobile phone :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29781978

[brokencrossbar1]

This case is unfortunately a 'difficult' case to base any laws or analysis of laws upon, as the old maxim goes Hard cases make bad law.  Nally was tortured and that is a given,  he reacted when he shot them but he then reloaded and followed Ward down the lane to deliver the fatal shot when Ward was escaping.  That to me takes it out of the realms of defending your property and into the realms of murder.  Also the fact that Ward was a Traveler adds a whole other layer to it.  Would the reaction have been the same if it had been a hood shot as opposed to a 'gypo'?  Somehow I don't think so.  This case shows up a lot of the latent racism that is rife in Ireland and has always been there.  It is the product of a 99% single identity, mono-cultural, conservative, slightly right of centre up bringing that the majority of the population have experienced.  The case of Padraig Nally should be analysed on it's own merits and not as part of a back drop to a 'fear of gypos'.  Travelers have a history of crime but if any of you sit in the courts during the day you'll find the majority of crimes are carried out by our own home made brand of scum.  As someone who has many friends from the extended Traveler community I think it is important that we see the other side of it before we brand them all with the brush that many do.

[mikehunt]

I don't think it mattered whether he was a traveler or not. If this was a settled person who plagued Pat Nally then people would still have no sympathy. Like the car crash the other night my immediate thoughts were it's a pity the 5 burglars weren't the ones who were killed. Society is safer with these fcukers off the street. The more permanent the better. I only read they were travellers yesterday. My opinion didn't change either way.   

[muppet]

This case is unfortunately a 'difficult' case to base any laws or analysis of laws upon, as the old maxim goes Hard cases make bad law.  Nally was tortured and that is a given,  he reacted when he shot them but he then reloaded and followed Ward down the lane to deliver the fatal shot when Ward was escaping.  That to me takes it out of the realms of defending your property and into the realms of murder.  Also the fact that Ward was a Traveler adds a whole other layer to it.  Would the reaction have been the same if it had been a hood shot as opposed to a 'gypo'?  Somehow I don't think so.  This case shows up a lot of the latent racism that is rife in Ireland and has always been there.  It is the product of a 99% single identity, mono-cultural, conservative, slightly right of centre up bringing that the majority of the population have experienced.  The case of Padraig Nally should be analysed on it's own merits and not as part of a back drop to a 'fear of gypos'.  Travelers have a history of crime but if any of you sit in the courts during the day you'll find the majority of crimes are carried out by our own home made brand of scum.  As someone who has many friends from the extended Traveler community I think it is important that we see the other side of it before we brand them all with the brush that many do.

Good post.

[seafoid]

I think Nally was in an impossible position. There was something primeval about the struggle between the 2 men- the farmer in his 60s and the assailant in his 40s. Nothing good could come out of it. And the law is often very poor in such cases.
He was convicted of manslaughter anyway although it was subsequently quashed. 

http://bocktherobber.com/2006/12/padraig-nally/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward

"Sentencing Nally to six years for the manslaughter conviction, Mr Justice Paul Carney said: "This is undoubtedly the most socially divisive case I have had to try. It is also the most difficult one in which I have had to impose sentence.".[9] The judge said he would take into consideration Nally's unblemished past, his low-risk of re-offending, his willingness to show remorse for his crime and the fact that the prosecution's case was based largely on testaments given by the farmer."

[Puckoon]

Let's remove the term traveler and replace it with bad f**ker. If you shot a bad f**ker who had been terrorizing you before you shot him- and you didn't kill him is there an argument that you have to go finish him off otherwise you're going to have it even worse than you did before - and your life will well be in danger after the first shooting? Is it still self defence, if you are concerned about the retaliation?

[Franko]

I would have the same concerns.  You are allowed to use "reasonable force" (or some such term) to defend yourself.  However, like you correctly say - in this case if Nally wounds this man and he escapes there's every likelihood that he returns in the near future looking for retribution.  Barring 24hr surveillance there is absolutely feck all that the agents of the law can/will do to prevent this.  It's a difficult one...

[BennyCake]

Solution (the humane one, anyway) - gypo island.

[muppet]

I would have the same concerns.  You are allowed to use "reasonable force" (or some such term) to defend yourself.  However, like you correctly say - in this case if Nally wounds this man and he escapes there's every likelihood that he returns in the near future looking for retribution.  Barring 24hr surveillance there is absolutely feck all that the agents of the law can/will do to prevent this.  It's a difficult one...

In this particular case there was plenty they could have done. There were 4 bench warrants active at the time, including one for attacking a Garda with a slash hook.