McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[cicfada]

However  did the players win all Irelands with Frank at the helm, I wonder? Was that the players winning it themselves?? If it was how did they lose all irelands then? was that the players or the co board that lost those ones?

[Reillers]

However  did the players win all Irelands with Frank at the helm, I wonder? Was that the players winning it themselves?? If it was how did they lose all irelands then? was that the players or the co board that lost those ones?

They won inspite of them. The winning had little to do with the board. That success the 2003-2006 was all down to the players and management, ya they'd losses to but they were beaten by the better team on the day, or got unlucky and such. Everything out of that, from 2006 onwards is when the board started to take control back, and we've seen the results, ya some are down to being beaten on the day by better teams, others though..not so much.

[cicfada]

You have to admit as well that the Cork style of possession/running hurling was nullified by the cats in 06 and mc Carthy tried to change the style in 07! The players couldn't change though as they were so used to that winning style ie possession and running! The players had a lot of mileage on the clock given the high intensity  style they employed and they were going to slip sooner or later! That possession style was only going to go so far! What I don't get is the notion down here in Cork that Cork are the only team that could  beat Kilkenny! if you look back at this decade,  the last team to beat Kilkenny  are Galway and they are also the only team to beat them twice this decade! Yet apparantly Cork are the only team that can beat them! Even if the rebels had all players available I'd put Tipperary, at least,  ahead of them in the rankings!

[Reillers]

You have to admit as well that the Cork style of possession/running hurling was nullified by the cats in 06 and mc Carthy tried to change the style in 07! The players couldn't change though as they were so used to that winning style ie possession and running! The players had a lot of mileage on the clock given the high intensity  style they employed and they were going to slip sooner or later! That possession style was only going to go so far! What I don't get is the notion down here in Cork that Cork are the only team that could  beat Kilkenny! if you look back at this decade,  the last team to beat Kilkenny  are Galway and they are also the only team to beat them twice this decade! Yet apparantly Cork are the only team that can beat them! Even if the rebels had all players available I'd put Tipperary, at least,  ahead of them in the rankings!

Oh God ya they figured out their style of play. The players don't make up the tactics as they go along, they are told to play in such a way. DESPITE what ye think they come up with the tactics, not under Gerald, Donal Og was dropped by Gerald for a game after he used a short puck out when he saw an oppurtunity to, which led to the other team scoring, but when Gerald cornered Donal Og, when he confronted him, (breaking the decision that was made where if the manager wanted to talk to a player the played could bring another player in with him to that meeting) Donal Og said that he wouldn't apoligise for it, he dropped him for the next game. They still, with the exception of 3 or 4 players have a lot of mileage left. They were going for 5 AI finals in a row and that's a fantasic record that even KK haven't matched..yet, that takes a lot out of the team. But the game style the play is the style they are told to play. Cork are the only team that can beat KK. Tipp always fall, they always screw up, they and Waterford don't have the bottle, the mental strength to beat them, either do Galway either, they beat KK in 05, but Cork beat Galway, it's been Cork KK, Cork KK, Cork KK for years. The only team that who don't fear KK are Cork.

[Lar Naparka]

Well, lads, it looks like the 100 page mark will be reached in no time at all but even if the craic goes on for a good while yet, I don't see any consensus emerging—if I may use a buzz term.
Unfortunately, you will probably have reached the 200 mark and more before any sort of deal will be arrived at in this situation. All sides seem to have dug in and compromise seems to be a dirty word.
I honestly don't know what is going on and I suppose very few outsiders would claim to make sense of it either.
In previous altercations between intercounty players and the county board it was fairly easy to have a good degree of sympathy with the players, hurlers and footballers alike. Their grievances seemed substantial.
Pardon me if I am missing something here, but I thought after the last spat that an agreement was entered into by all sides concerned that players' representatives would have an input into the selection of future managers. In return, all players agreed not to go on strike again. 
To a gobhawk like myself, that seemed clear enough; the players, hurlers and footballers, seemed to have got a substantial portion of what they had been looking for and life by the Lee could return to normal.
Yet, within a year the hurlers were up in arms again, claiming bloody blue murder and pointing the collective finger at Frank Murphy; Frank it seems arranged matters so his choice of hurling manager was appointed without reference to the wishes of the current hurling panel.
Am I right so far? That, in brief, is what I have gleaned from what I have seen and heard since the present standoff began.
Several things strike me: Why didn't the hurlers object the very second Gerald Mac was appointed? I'm quite sure the hurlers' reps were aware of the tactics that Frank & co. were likely to adopt and should have not allowed the appointment to proceed once they realised that the spirit of the recent agreement was being breached.
Again, I may be incorrect in my recollections but I think Gerald's appointment had been announced before the players indicated their dissatisfaction. I certainly recall reading that the players had a meeting with the new man and Sean Og telling him, more or less, that he wasn't wanted.
Tactically, the players mucked up here. If they were unhappy, they should never have attended any such meeting; either the appointment was in order or it was a transgression of the terms of the agreement facilitated by Kieran Mulvey. Meeting with the man was giving tacit acceptance to his appointment. They followed ill-thought out advice on that one.
I like Cork hurling and Cork hurlers in general and I accept that the players must have serious and heartfelt grievances to follow the course they are pursuing but I honestly can't see them winning this one. For one thing, the footballers are staying very silent; no fraternal bonds here. Didn't the hurlers come to their aid in the not so distant past?
Furthermore, none of the clubs appear to have backed the cause of the striking players. Does their silence speak volumes?
Last time the goings on in Cork hit the headlines, it was noticeable that high profile managers like Brian Cody and Richie Bennis publicly backed the hurlers' cause. So did a number of prominent players from other counties. There seems to be no support from those quarters now.
The odds would appear to indicate that Gerald will hold on and in doing so the power of Frank and his buddies on the county board will be increased. Maybe my assessment is a bit simplistic, but that's my take on proceedings as an objective outsider. 

[theskull1]

Reillers.....you know some stuff about them players to not be one yourself. Have you admitted it yet?

Isn't it great when you get impartial reporting like this and from a Cork man at that

http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=1050

Whats your take lads? Seems like a bit of balanced and unbiased reporting.

[Reillers]

Skull can I ask you something. This is a Cork issue is it not?? And there are two sides to this issue aren't there??
So how do you figure that a Cork writter is biased and unbiased..because it matches your own view it's unbiased but when it doesn't it's biased right?? I'm just curious because you've been calling a lot of Cork journos biased, so I'm just wondering, when there are two sides in a CORK argument, and the writher is from Cork, how is he biased exactly??

And for the 100th time Skull, no, no, I'm not one of the players.

[Reillers]

Well, lads, it looks like the 100 page mark will be reached in no time at all but even if the craic goes on for a good while yet, I don't see any consensus emerging—if I may use a buzz term.
Unfortunately, you will probably have reached the 200 mark and more before any sort of deal will be arrived at in this situation. All sides seem to have dug in and compromise seems to be a dirty word.
I honestly don't know what is going on and I suppose very few outsiders would claim to make sense of it either.
In previous altercations between intercounty players and the county board it was fairly easy to have a good degree of sympathy with the players, hurlers and footballers alike. Their grievances seemed substantial.
Pardon me if I am missing something here, but I thought after the last spat that an agreement was entered into by all sides concerned that players' representatives would have an input into the selection of future managers. In return, all players agreed not to go on strike again. 
To a gobhawk like myself, that seemed clear enough; the players, hurlers and footballers, seemed to have got a substantial portion of what they had been looking for and life by the Lee could return to normal.
Yet, within a year the hurlers were up in arms again, claiming bloody blue murder and pointing the collective finger at Frank Murphy; Frank it seems arranged matters so his choice of hurling manager was appointed without reference to the wishes of the current hurling panel.
Am I right so far? That, in brief, is what I have gleaned from what I have seen and heard since the present standoff began.
Several things strike me: Why didn't the hurlers object the very second Gerald Mac was appointed? Well obviously at the start of the term they were, yet again rightly pissed off about the way in which he was reappointed and the great men that were on Allen's backroom team weren't even given a thank you, never mind an interview, but other then that they'd no idea what type of manager he'd be, it's not a personal, it's not like they disliked Gerald from the start, they gave him the two years. Then when it came to reappointing him, they made Gerald clear about how they felt, they made the CB VERY clear on how they felt and in any other county that would have been taken into consideration and thought about..not used as insentive to reappoint the man I'm quite sure the hurlers' reps were aware of the tactics that Frank & co. were likely to adopt and should have not allowed the appointment to proceed once they realised that the spirit of the recent agreement was being breached.
Again, I may be incorrect in my recollections but I think Gerald's appointment had been announced before the players indicated their dissatisfaction. Every man and his dog thought that there was no way that he'd get reappointed, they gave him the two years and thought after that that would be it..but just because it wasn't shown in the media doesn't mean the disatisfaction wasn't there.  I certainly recall reading that the players had a meeting with the new man and Sean Og telling him, more or less, that he wasn't wanted.
Tactically, the players mucked up here. If they were unhappy, they should never have attended any such meeting; either the appointment was in order or it was a transgression of the terms of the agreement facilitated by Kieran Mulvey. Meeting with the man was giving tacit acceptance to his appointment. They followed ill-thought out advice on that one.
I like Cork hurling and Cork hurlers in general and I accept that the players must have serious and heartfelt grievances to follow the course they are pursuing but I honestly can't see them winning this one. For one thing, the footballers are staying very silent; no fraternal bonds here. Didn't the hurlers come to their aid in the not so distant past? Well technically they're evened out, because the footballers backed the hurlers in 02, 06 the hurlers paid them back, now they're all even. The footballers have got a good thing going they've a good manager and they do not piss of the CB near as much as the hurlers, but they've a good thing going at the minute, a great manager who says he'll quit if they join in.
Furthermore, none of the clubs appear to have backed the cause of the striking players. Does their silence speak volumes?
Last time the goings on in Cork hit the headlines, it was noticeable that high profile managers like Brian Cody and Richie Bennis publicly backed the hurlers' cause. So did a number of prominent players from other counties. There seems to be no support from those quarters now.
The odds would appear to indicate that Gerald will hold on and in doing so the power of Frank and his buddies on the county board will be increased. Maybe my assessment is a bit simplistic, but that's my take on proceedings as an objective outsider. 

No that's pretty much it really..ok.

[theskull1]

Skull can I ask you something. This is a Cork issue is it not?? And there are two sides to this issue aren't there??
So how do you figure that a Cork writter is biased and unbiased..because it matches your own view it's unbiased but when it doesn't it's biased right?? I'm just curious because you've been calling a lot of Cork journos biased, so I'm just wondering, when there are two sides in a CORK argument, and the writher is from Cork, how is he biased exactly??

And for the 100th time Skull, no, no, I'm not one of the players.

Well is your Dad one of them then ??  ...I'm joking....I'm joking...for the 300th time I'm only joking 

No. Do you believe I'm simply engineering this discussion purely to prove myself to be right?
I thought the way that he was able to say without question that the players were completely in the wrong regarding the dispute, whilst then going on and lambasting the CCB for the way they dealt with other pertinent issues on the night, demonstrated to me that this man didn't have allegiances to one side or the other yet and he seems to have a long history and knowledge of the Cork GAA scene. Yes there is a striking player truth, there is a CCB truth but the fact that SGF remained impartial with his observations throughout that report ,it gave me more confidence in his opinions and I was more willing to accept his perspectives as being a fair refection of the way alot of people view things down there.

Is that not a fair comment?

[cicfada]

You have to admit as well that the Cork style of possession/running hurling was nullified by the cats in 06 and mc Carthy tried to change the style in 07! The players couldn't change though as they were so used to that winning style ie possession and running! The players had a lot of mileage on the clock given the high intensity  style they employed and they were going to slip sooner or later! That possession style was only going to go so far! What I don't get is the notion down here in Cork that Cork are the only team that could  beat Kilkenny! if you look back at this decade,  the last team to beat Kilkenny  are Galway and they are also the only team to beat them twice this decade! Yet apparantly Cork are the only team that can beat them! Even if the rebels had all players available I'd put Tipperary, at least,  ahead of them in the rankings!

Oh God ya they figured out their style of play. The players don't make up the tactics as they go along, they are told to play in such a way. DESPITE what ye think they come up with the tactics, not under Gerald, Donal Og was dropped by Gerald for a game after he used a short puck out when he saw an oppurtunity to, which led to the other team scoring, but when Gerald cornered Donal Og, when he confronted him, (breaking the decision that was made where if the manager wanted to talk to a player the played could bring another player in with him to that meeting) Donal Og said that he wouldn't apoligise for it, he dropped him for the next game. They still, with the exception of 3 or 4 players have a lot of mileage left. They were going for 5 AI finals in a row and that's a fantasic record that even KK haven't matched..yet, that takes a lot out of the team. But the game style the play is the style they are told to play. Cork are the only team that can beat KK. Tipp always fall, they always screw up, they and Waterford don't have the bottle, the mental strength to beat them, either do Galway either, they beat KK in 05, but Cork beat Galway, it's been Cork KK, Cork KK, Cork KK for years. The only team that who don't fear KK are Cork.

Maybe you should have said that Cork are the only team that can beat KK, in your humble opinion. Cork beat the present KK team once this decade, in a final granted and that's what you base your  premise on?? How ridiculous is it that  a player would have to accompany another one of the manager wanted to talk to him about tactics? I mean if he was talking to him in the dressingroom about a puckout, Donal Og would have to have another player along side him? That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard of!!Talk about taking yourself a little too seriously!Without  those 3 or 4 players how good are Cork anyway presuming those players are Sean Og , Donal Og, and the twins maybe? And if the players are that professional shouldn't they be able to adapt to a new style anyway??Your last statement is a beauty, I guarantee you Tipp don't fear the cats, maybe we should ask who teh cats fear and the answer is obvious....no one!

[stevetharlear]

Lár Napairce,

Don't be surprised if you see the footballers out with the hurlers come the new year. This will affect them next year, same as the hurlers last year. I'd say they're keeping their powder dry on this in the hope that there'll be some movement after Christmas but I'd be very surprised if they played on with this over them. It'll be a shame but it'll happen. Just when they seem to be reaching a point where they believe they can go on and win something. Counihan has already said he'll walk if they do... it'll be a right mess if he does.

People seem to think that it's all Donal Og, Sean Og etc but I guarantee ya, Graham Canty, Kavanagh and a lot more of the footballers are just as upset with the actions of our CB (see last year), and are just as 'militant'. Watch this space.

BTW, the hurlers met with Ger Mac before he took the job, asking him not to put his name forward, he did anyway.

[Silky]

And for the 100th time Skull, no, no, I'm not one of the players.

Going by your posts I think you are!

[passedit]

I ask for the fourth time, do you think the players were wrong in 2002? If you answer once that'll be 25%.  

Oh yes passedit.....the answer is I don't know

sorry I missed it the first time.  That's some cop out, considering this is FM continuing the same dispute.

[Reillers]

You have to admit as well that the Cork style of possession/running hurling was nullified by the cats in 06 and mc Carthy tried to change the style in 07! The players couldn't change though as they were so used to that winning style ie possession and running! The players had a lot of mileage on the clock given the high intensity  style they employed and they were going to slip sooner or later! That possession style was only going to go so far! What I don't get is the notion down here in Cork that Cork are the only team that could  beat Kilkenny! if you look back at this decade,  the last team to beat Kilkenny  are Galway and they are also the only team to beat them twice this decade! Yet apparantly Cork are the only team that can beat them! Even if the rebels had all players available I'd put Tipperary, at least,  ahead of them in the rankings!

Oh God ya they figured out their style of play. The players don't make up the tactics as they go along, they are told to play in such a way. DESPITE what ye think they come up with the tactics, not under Gerald, Donal Og was dropped by Gerald for a game after he used a short puck out when he saw an oppurtunity to, which led to the other team scoring, but when Gerald cornered Donal Og, when he confronted him, (breaking the decision that was made where if the manager wanted to talk to a player the played could bring another player in with him to that meeting) Donal Og said that he wouldn't apoligise for it, he dropped him for the next game. They still, with the exception of 3 or 4 players have a lot of mileage left. They were going for 5 AI finals in a row and that's a fantasic record that even KK haven't matched..yet, that takes a lot out of the team. But the game style the play is the style they are told to play. Cork are the only team that can beat KK. Tipp always fall, they always screw up, they and Waterford don't have the bottle, the mental strength to beat them, either do Galway either, they beat KK in 05, but Cork beat Galway, it's been Cork KK, Cork KK, Cork KK for years. The only team that who don't fear KK are Cork.

Maybe you should have said that Cork are the only team that can beat KK, in your humble opinion. Cork beat the present KK team once this decade, in a final granted and that's what you base your  premise on?? How ridiculous is it that  a player would have to accompany another one of the manager wanted to talk to him about tactics? I mean if he was talking to him in the dressingroom about a puckout, Donal Og would have to have another player along side him? That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard of!!Talk about taking yourself a little too seriously!Without  those 3 or 4 players how good are Cork anyway presuming those players are Sean Og , Donal Og, and the twins maybe? And if the players are that professional shouldn't they be able to adapt to a new style anyway??Your last statement is a beauty, I guarantee you Tipp don't fear the cats, maybe we should ask who teh cats fear and the answer is obvious....no one!

Cork and KK have been the top teams of the decade so far..like it or not. It's the way it is.
That's what everyone with any bit of hurling knowledge of hurling will tell you. 3 AIs in 10 years. 5 AI finals. 4 in a row. The two most consistant teams. YOur trying to put down how good this Cork team has been and it's insulting to them to say the least. They held the title for a very long time as being the best, only to share that with KK last season. It's undermining really, you're trying to tale away from the achievemnets of a great team. Pathetic really.

It's the way it was, if the manager wanted to talk to their player like that they had the right to bring in another player with them. It doesn't matter how ridiculous it was, it was the way it was. Gerald broke that. Without lets say Deane, Sully, Donal Og..etc, how good are our team..better at times. They are all legends, don't get me wrong, but people want to see Coleman in goals and have wanted to see him for a while now, we havbe some outstanding young players, the likes of Naughton who I think deserved HOTY og if I'm honest, Canning got it for that outstanding game against Cork..but it was one game. It's an oppinion. But anyway, Horgan, Sully Og, Cronin. Then you've got Shane O Neill and co. Players shouldn't have seen the last of and it actually kills me to think that we might never see Naughton in a Cork jersey again. The way he cut through Tipp again and again was amazing and he hasn't seven come close to reaching that potential, and he's so much confidence, the first two touches of a ball he had in the championship, he scored a point and a goal, he rescued us, he got us into the final. That's what you call an impact sub. That was John Allen for ya.
Naughton will be supreme. Sully Og imo could be one of the best things since sliced bread, he's potential that you can't even measure. He should have come on to the scene two season ago but he injured his leg badly, and last season he didn't get the time he needed and I was hopin above hope that he'd get the time this season because we have been waiting for his coming for a long time..you really wouldn't know he's from the same litter as The Rock. Pat Horgan I was really excited about this lad, he's so much confidence and skill to match that. Nothing seems to phase him.
And they are just lads who got some time last season I could name you strong list of players who should be on the team this season..but they refuse to play. 

If the players are that professional shouldn't they be able to adapt to a new style anyway?

..this is a joke, it's up to manager to set up the tactics, if I said it was the players who decided ye'd go insane..wanting to run things themselves and all that jazz. But when they actually you know, do what they're told by the manager and play by his tactics, especially considering he would drop them if they didn't, despite the fact that going by his directions cost us games, like against Tipp that we should have walked away with. That decision to change tactics and make those subs was one of the worst decisions he's made in charge. We should have been beating teams like that out the gate. But thanks to Gerald's decisions, usually I'd share the blame with the players as well, but Gerald got what he was asking for in the Tipp game with those decisions.

Tiipp don't fear KK..this young naieve Tipp team, they couldn't even beat Waterford who got hammered embarasingly by KK in the final.
Cork have never feared a team..that will change this season because this Cork team look like they should be at an underage disco then playing senior.

[theskull1]

I ask for the fourth time, do you think the players were wrong in 2002? If you answer once that'll be 25%.  

Oh yes passedit.....the answer is I don't know

sorry I missed it the first time.  That's some cop out, considering this is FM continuing the same dispute.

Then again maybe I just don't know  .