A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[AustinPowers]

The prospect of MM being ousted as leader of FF would surely be a huge shot in the arm for a United Ireland.

I don't think there is any politician more pro partitionist that they could appoint.

Martin has done everything in his power while leading FF to delay and derail the groundworks for a United Ireland.

A UI would lead to a very strong SF and that's what he fears most.

It's all about self preservation for these lads.

That's it , 100 million %

[Rossfan]

Who'd need Sinn Féin in an (imaginary at present) All Ireland entity? What would they stand for?
Would there be an "Ulster British" Party?
The new AI won't be any extension of Crossmaglen.

Last GE here had Centrists (FF, FG, gene pool Independents, Marian Harkin etc) getting around 50% of the vote.
Real Left Wingers c25% at most.
Sinn Féin and other populists c20%.

[Look-Up!]

MM getting ousted could actually be a huge shot in the arm to FF as a party. Whoever else that "weakens" as a result would be on them. I'd like to see MM gone, not because I want to see a stronger FF, but because I want to see politicians with backbone and competence representing us, whether I voted for them or not.

Predicting what will make SF stronger or weaker is academic. They're an opposition party with no active part in governance. They might gain a few points here or there depending on public mood but until they actually get in and make some hard decisions and not make a balls of them, they'll continue as is. And whether they are thee party in future or whether they fall off will be entirely on their own competences. So I couldn't really care less who governs Ireland in the future whether it be FF, FG or SF or whatever other actors are involved as long as the politicians front and centre are competent, have backbone and are loyal to the Irish people.

[Hand of God]

Who'd need Sinn Féin in an (imaginary at present) All Ireland entity? What would they stand for?
Would there be an "Ulster British" Party?
The new AI won't be any extension of Crossmaglen.

Last GE here had Centrists (FF, FG, gene pool Independents, Marian Harkin etc) getting around 50% of the vote.
Real Left Wingers c25% at most.
Sinn Féin and other populists c20%.

Your world view is pretty wild.

You don't seriously believe that FF are "centrists" and SF are "populists"? It's just another smear attack isn't it.

FF are the party of Bertie Ahern, Charlie Haughey, P Flynn, Liam Lawlor etc - they are a party who stand for nothing else than getting themselves in power and staying. The party who wouldn't go into govt with FG and then did - that's populism, you don't seem to understand the term. FF are the most populist party in the history of the state. Lies after broken promises, all to get power. Telling people what they want to hear and the rolling back in it once you have power is the focal point of populism. FF lie to the electorate and mislead them without any sense of accountability of it.

FG on the other hand have their origins in far right fascism.

Just stop smearing, it makes look you like an uneducated slabberer.

[Hand of God]

Bit of context. MM's party represents about 20% of the vote and even at that I haven't heard too many dyed in the wool FFers express any great admiration for him. He's a wet dishcloth of a man. Turnout for the GE was what, 60%?

A vote on United Ireland, if it gets to us that is, would have a much larger turnout. I don't know what way people might vote, there are many things past and future will influence that vote, but it will be feck all influenced on what that clown of a man has said in the past, present or down the line.

It's not about his popularity or voting draw. It's his own direction of his party in leadership. To say he has been hostile to the nationalist community in the north is being polite. He has furthered FFs shift to the right. He has been vehemently opposed to ever entering govt with SF as he is worried about the left wing outlook they hold and that they have in relation to our economy. A shift in leader may soften this stance, it was notable in the last election that some FF back benchers were much more open to the opportunity of doing business with SF.

[Hand of God]

In the event of UI IE job done would the SF vote after an initial well done vote not just start to filter back to other parties based on policies. I would expect some big changes in all the parties seeing as most of the northern parties would need some sort of realignment or mergers

It definitely would. Politics would likely shift in the northern sphere from Republican/unionist to right/left.

[Look-Up!]

Bit of context. MM's party represents about 20% of the vote and even at that I haven't heard too many dyed in the wool FFers express any great admiration for him. He's a wet dishcloth of a man. Turnout for the GE was what, 60%?

A vote on United Ireland, if it gets to us that is, would have a much larger turnout. I don't know what way people might vote, there are many things past and future will influence that vote, but it will be feck all influenced on what that clown of a man has said in the past, present or down the line.

It's not about his popularity or voting draw. It's his own direction of his party in leadership. To say he has been hostile to the nationalist community in the north is being polite. He has furthered FFs shift to the right. He has been vehemently opposed to ever entering govt with SF as he is worried about the left wing outlook they hold and that they have in relation to our economy. A shift in leader may soften this stance, it was notable in the last election that some FF back benchers were much more open to the opportunity of doing business with SF.

Depends who replaces him and who replaces them further down the line. We're a bit off a FF/SF coalition or a UI vote.

[weareros]

What will be right and left in a United Ireland from the North's party perspective?

Fox-hunting? Dup and Sinn Fein supported it
Abortion: Northern Sinn Fein iffy on this one. McGuinness always said Sinn Fein are a pro-life party; left it to Westminster to bring in.
EU: Sinn Fein and DUP were against Ireland joining EEC in 1973 and still don't strike me as pro-EU
Corporation Tax: 25% in North: 15% in the economically right wing south. Stormont has the ability to reduce it but have avoided because it means they have to raise money other ways (eg water rates)
Climate: All stormont parties took a right wing approach and kept North out of the UK carbon tax
Pollution: All northern parties supported the right wing "going for growth" that let north's farmers and business pollute all around them with minimal fines


As I've said many times, the distinction between left and right in Ireland gets very blurred at times.

If you think FF/FG are bad, please god the Stormont parties never get near the levers of power.

[Rossfan]

Stormont isn't really an adult set up though, more like a creche where the children play games but leave real World decisions to others.

[marty34]

Stormont clearly a mess but not much worse than the Dáil. Some examples:

Cost of the Dáil bike shelter.

Cost of new Children's Hospital - biggest scandal ever I'd say and still no closer to getting built.

Housing crisis - current government won't make decisions on it.

Over crowded classrooms.

The

Etc. etc.

[Munchie]

Stormont clearly a mess but not much worse than the Dáil. Some examples:

Cost of the Dáil bike shelter.

Cost of new Children's Hospital - biggest scandal ever I'd say and still no closer to getting built.

Housing crisis - current government won't make decisions on it.

Over crowded classrooms.

The

Etc. etc.

Stormont is a shitshow, does nothing, passes no legislation, governs for not one citizen, SPADS making a fortune, MLA's making a fortune, not one with the balls to tackle any issue, or raise any money to tacking the crap society we live in.

[weareros]

Stormont clearly a mess but not much worse than the Dáil. Some examples:

Cost of the Dáil bike shelter.

Cost of new Children's Hospital - biggest scandal ever I'd say and still no closer to getting built.

It's close to completion and the children's hospital in Belfast delayed since 2013 will be more expensive per room. The difference is the 26 has the revenue raising abilities, and no doubt money gets squandered. But at least the country will have a top class facility opened within a year. The inertia of Stormont means the Belfast one is waiting 12 years to break ground. With one firm already pulling out this year, watch costs balloon even further. At least Nesbitt got to visit an actual hospital being built when he inspected the Dublin one.