Video in Good Shepherd Chapel - Niamh Horan

[Pangurban]

As a number of priests have been faced with allegations which were later proved to be totally false and malicious, it is important that the Church exercise its duty of care towards its  employees. As things stand, when an allegation is made against a Priest, he is immediately suspended from office, and faces a long wait to have his name cleared. Whether the case reaches court or not, the damage has already been done, by the no smoke without fire brigade. How many of us would choose to work in such a vulnerable situation. The enormous efforts of the Church to rectify and adress its problems or continually being undermined by false sensationalist reporting by lazy journalists who will not let facts get in the way of their story. Where there is a reasonable degree of evidence, the Church must co-operate to the fullest extent with any investigation, but it should not throw its employees to the baying mob.

[muppet]

Are there nor several priests locked up? Comparisons with the British Govt are very valid. To mention just one incident, they will nor co operate with any Investligation into the Dublin bombings? Where were the mass protests on the streets of Dublin during the Queen's visit in 2011?

Where were the protests when Sean Brady attended Armagh matches?

You continue to insist that Brady and the Church have done no wrong. You compare it to the British position on Dublin/Monaghan so presumably you are arguing that they have also done no wrong.

[muppet]

As a number of priests have been faced with allegations which were later proved to be totally false and malicious, it is important that the Church exercise its duty of care towards its  employees. As things stand, when an allegation is made against a Priest, he is immediately suspended from office, and faces a long wait to have his name cleared. Whether the case reaches court or not, the damage has already been done, by the no smoke without fire brigade. How many of us would choose to work in such a vulnerable situation. The enormous efforts of the Church to rectify and adress its problems or continually being undermined by false sensationalist reporting by lazy journalists who will not let facts get in the way of their story. Where there is a reasonable degree of evidence, the Church must co-operate to the fullest extent with any investigation, but it should not throw its employees to the baying mob.

It must go much further than that. As we have seen with the Sean Brady silencing of victims example, there will be no reasonable degree of evidence available outside the Church. This is why I say The Vatican must hand over all records of allegations against clergy. By all means if they feel some are in bad faith then they can highlight them, but blaming lazy journalism and baying mobs is another straw man at this stage.

For example: http://www.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/content/20131120-alleged-priest-abuse-victims-call-for-investigation-of-providence-diocese.ece

Alleged priest-abuse victims call for investigation of Providence diocese
November 20, 2013 03:46 PM

PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Victims of alleged sexual abuse gathered for a news conference on Wednesday to condemn the Diocese of Providence for failing to properly investigate more than 800 allegations of sexual abuse over the past 20 years.
Among those presenting harrowing tales of abuse by local parish priests were Ann Hagan-Webb, a representative from Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, SNAP; and Jeffrey Thomas, of Massachusetts, and Helen McGonigle, a lawyer from Connecticut.
Thomas and McGonigle said they were raped as children by the Rev. Brendan Smyth, an Irish priest who was at Our Lady of Mercy Church in East Greenwich from 1965 to 1968.

Incredibly they still haven't released all their data on the monster Brendan Smyth.

[Pangurban]

It is a criminal offence to interfere with or with-hold evidence in a criminal investigation, and Police have powers to seize such evidence.

[muppet]

It is a criminal offence to interfere with or with-hold evidence in a criminal investigation, and Police have powers to seize such evidence.

Yes but there is no criminal investigation while there is no evidence, or while the victims are sworn to secrecy. See the problem?

[Pangurban]

Surely the purpose of an investigation is to gather evidence if a credible complaint has been made. As for being sworn to secrecy, do you have any evidence that this happened in the cases you are quoting, it would certainly be against current church policy, and it is unlikely they would anyone bound by such an oath

[foxcommander]

Where were the mass protests on the streets of Dublin during the Queen's visit in 2011?

To be fair the west brits were loving every second of it. A few words in irish by her maj and they forgave it all.

Sickening.

[muppet]

Surely the purpose of an investigation is to gather evidence if a credible complaint has been made. As for being sworn to secrecy, do you have any evidence that this happened in the cases you are quoting, it would certainly be against current church policy, and it is unlikely they would anyone bound by such an oath

I found this story a few years ago while debating this topic, or a version of it.

Here is the story as it was in 2010: http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/archives/003430.html

.....The Catholic church has refused to release the late priest's "assignment record" in the US, which would detail the various parishes Smyth was assigned to.....

That was in 2010, regarding the already dead, convicted pedophile, Brendan Smyth.

McGonigle submitted the following to the UN Committee on the Rights of The Child last January.

http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CRC/Shared%20Documents/VAT/INT_CRC_NGO_VAT_16029_E.pdf

[The Iceman]

Muppet you or I could check what parishes a priest has been assigned to for the past 50 years anywhere if we really wanted to. The authorities can investigate without hiding behind "the church wont tell us". I' not discounting that the church should release this information but its a bit of a cop out if authorities wash their hands and say thats it too?
again, I agree with you on many things but I don't know if either of us grasp the magnitude of what we are asking for?

[muppet]

Muppet you or I could check what parishes a priest has been assigned to for the past 50 years anywhere if we really wanted to. The authorities can investigate without hiding behind "the church wont tell us". I' not discounting that the church should release this information but its a bit of a cop out if authorities wash their hands and say thats it too?
again, I agree with you on many things but I don't know if either of us grasp the magnitude of what we are asking for?

Let's say, hypothetically, I claim Smyth worked in California. I tell the authorities that I am pretty sure a convicted pedophile worked in California in the 1960s. Will the authorities investigate? What exactly will they investigate and will the get a warrant to examine records of a dead man based on no real evidence?

[foxcommander]

Will the authorities investigate? What exactly will they investigate and will the get a warrant to examine records of a dead man based on no real evidence?

Dig him up and put him in jail I say.

[muppet]

Will the authorities investigate? What exactly will they investigate and will the get a warrant to examine records of a dead man based on no real evidence?

Dig him up and put him in jail I say.

And what of the victims?

[Pangurban]

Horrific behaviour which has been acknowledged by the Church  and atonement sought. We cannot change the past, but seek to ensure that it never happens again

[foxcommander]

Will the authorities investigate? What exactly will they investigate and will the get a warrant to examine records of a dead man based on no real evidence?

Dig him up and put him in jail I say.

And what of the victims?

I've said it before - I don't know what will ever make up for what happened.
Same goes for the bankers and how they've fuc'd the country over. It's not like there is a reset button to make it go away.

Ditto the victims in the 6 counties, although there is a lot of people in the 26 counties that pretended that never happened. Wasn't too much of an outcry then.

[muppet]

Horrific behaviour which has been acknowledged by the Church and atonement sought. We cannot change the past, but seek to ensure that it never happens again

Not genuinely if they don't release Smyth's assignment record and indeed all the records (I have no problem protecting people form malicious claims).

We know Smyth was a serial sex offender and abuser of children.

Again from McGonigle's submission to the UN:

It has only been recently (2012) that Fr. Bruno Mulvihill's 1995 statement with its attachments has been made available as much of the paper trial on Fr. Brendan Smyth still remains concealed by the Holy See, religious orders and dioceses to which he was assigned.

This is 15 years after Smyth's death and the cover up goes on.