Video in Good Shepherd Chapel - Niamh Horan

[muppet]

Will the authorities investigate? What exactly will they investigate and will the get a warrant to examine records of a dead man based on no real evidence?

Dig him up and put him in jail I say.

And what of the victims?

I've said it before - I don't know what will ever make up for what happened.

A good start would be for the Church to come clean.

I am surprised you are arguing for the Church by comparing them with greedy incompetent bankers and terrorists, I am no holy Joe but I would have thought that is probably sacrilegious.

[foxcommander]

I am surprised you are arguing for the Church by comparing them with greedy incompetent bankers and terrorists, I am no holy Joe but I would have thought that is probably sacrilegious.

I didn't - I was just comparing peoples attitudes and the tenacity with which they were tackling subjects. It seems to be a trendy thing amongst freestaters to have a go at the church but suddenly mute when it comes to tackling the bankers or the british treatment of irish citizens in the 6 counties.

[Pangurban]

I dont have a solution, but, i do admire the problem

[muppet]

I am surprised you are arguing for the Church by comparing them with greedy incompetent bankers and terrorists, I am no holy Joe but I would have thought that is probably sacrilegious.

I didn't - I was just comparing peoples attitudes and the tenacity with which they were tackling subjects. It seems to be a trendy thing amongst freestaters to have a go at the church but suddenly mute when it comes to tackling the bankers or the british treatment of irish citizens in the 6 counties.

Really?

So this is a freestater thing and nothing to do with the Church?

[imtommygunn]

The first person to pull fearon on this was not a "free stater"...

[theskull1]

not by a long chalk

[muppet]

not by a long chalk

We'd have you in Mayo if you need a new home.






(P.S. Please bring some hurlers).

[T Fearon]

The obsessive hatred of the catholic church is all too evident by the tone of some posters on this thread.It is such that perhaps one or two of those involved have been directly affected by clerical abuse and if that is the case then their position on this matter in entirely understandable.

Certainly the whole issue has been badly mishandled,and far too often the reputation of the church was prioritised over the needs and feeling of victims,but it is bizarre to utter statements or allegations that the church facilitated abuse or to maintain the view that this is an evil institution.

Quite simply to paraphrase a current loyalist mantra "End hatred of Roman Catholicism"

[Zip Code]

It is amazing reading this thread how logical people become so irrational when religion is mentioned.  If these people happened to be born  within a protestant family would they be defending the catholic church so readily.  The catholic church sticks to high heaven (pardon the pun) it is guilty of covering up child abuse.  It is guilty of facilitating child abuse it by moving priests around and letting them have a fresh batch to ply their sickening sexual tendencies.  The only people who seem to be sticking by the Catholic Church are the old generation and those who appear to be blinded by faith, I hope the decline in mass attendance etc continues and the coppers stop rolling in and that this corrupt organisation dies a death in the future.

[theskull1]

After all the straight up arguments that have been presented .....your simple conclusion.....hate driven .....therefore not totally rational....but understandable ONLY if you're a victim.

Has Willie Fraser received funding to take 'Argumentation' evening classes down there?

It blows me away everytime just how blinkered people will get just to cling onto beliefs regardless of the evidence presented.

Just for clarity could you outline what would have had to have happened BEFORE you'd accept that the institution did facilitate?

[Hardy]

After all the straight up arguments that have been presented .....your simple conclusion.....hate driven .....therefore not totally rational....but understandable ONLY if you're a victim.

Has Willie Fraser received funding to take 'Argumentation' evening classes down there?

It blows me away everytime just how blinkered people will get just to cling onto beliefs regardless of the evidence presented.

Just for clarity could you outline what would have had to have happened BEFORE you'd accept that the institution did facilitate?

+1.

For the record, I haven't been abused, nor has anyone I know. I never met Jimmy Savile either and, strangely, I've managed  to reach a reasoned conclusion on his behaviour too.

[Billys Boots]

I am surprised you are arguing for the Church by comparing them with greedy incompetent bankers and terrorists, I am no holy Joe but I would have thought that is probably sacrilegious.

I didn't - I was just comparing peoples attitudes and the tenacity with which they were tackling subjects. It seems to be a trendy thing amongst freestaters to have a go at the church but suddenly mute when it comes to tackling the bankers or the british treatment of irish citizens in the 6 counties.

Really?

So this is a freestater thing and nothing to do with the Church?

How did you ever think this 'discussion' would reach a different 'conclusion'?

[Applesisapples]

While it's great looking back in hindsight to the things that went on and now how we view them as disgraceful I think a lot of you have forgotten about the culture at the time.

Scandals were hidden, broken homes held together due to no divorces, affairs were hushed, alcoholism wasnt mentioned, kids with learning difficulties were just branded stupid and left in the back of the classrooms to rot etc....
There was still a hint of shame for some regarding their behaviour or situations which sometimes lent itself to things being swept under the carpet.

The situation with the church fell into this category. Would you let an institution fall due to the actions of a few? Of course you would try to fix it or patch over it...wasn't that the exact same thing as the banking crisis not so long ago?

This is the most sensible post I have read o this topic. In 2014 we look back to the 50's and 60's and judge things by the more and standards of today. It can't be done. At this stage it is 50/60 years ago, it is not possible to make a rational balanced judgement. That is why, although I wouldn't totally agree with TF on the church, I do have some sympathy with a young Sean Brady and how he dealt with issues at the time. Where I would part company with Tony is that he and the church really need a bit of mea culpa, Brady should have stood down.

[Zip Code]

While it's great looking back in hindsight to the things that went on and now how we view them as disgraceful I think a lot of you have forgotten about the culture at the time.

Scandals were hidden, broken homes held together due to no divorces, affairs were hushed, alcoholism wasnt mentioned, kids with learning difficulties were just branded stupid and left in the back of the classrooms to rot etc....
There was still a hint of shame for some regarding their behaviour or situations which sometimes lent itself to things being swept under the carpet.

The situation with the church fell into this category. Would you let an institution fall due to the actions of a few? Of course you would try to fix it or patch over it...wasn't that the exact same thing as the banking crisis not so long ago?

This is the most sensible post I have read o this topic. In 2014 we look back to the 50's and 60's and judge things by the more and standards of today. It can't be done. At this stage it is 50/60 years ago, it is not possible to make a rational balanced judgement. That is why, although I wouldn't totally agree with TF on the church, I do have some sympathy with a young Sean Brady and how he dealt with issues at the time. Where I would part company with Tony is that he and the church really need a bit of mea culpa, Brady should have stood down.

In the 50s and 60s rape of children was wrong and abhorrent, nothing to do with today's standards - what a completely stupid post.

[Applesisapples]

While it's great looking back in hindsight to the things that went on and now how we view them as disgraceful I think a lot of you have forgotten about the culture at the time.

Scandals were hidden, broken homes held together due to no divorces, affairs were hushed, alcoholism wasnt mentioned, kids with learning difficulties were just branded stupid and left in the back of the classrooms to rot etc....
There was still a hint of shame for some regarding their behaviour or situations which sometimes lent itself to things being swept under the carpet.

The situation with the church fell into this category. Would you let an institution fall due to the actions of a few? Of course you would try to fix it or patch over it...wasn't that the exact same thing as the banking crisis not so long ago?

This is the most sensible post I have read o this topic. In 2014 we look back to the 50's and 60's and judge things by the more and standards of today. It can't be done. At this stage it is 50/60 years ago, it is not possible to make a rational balanced judgement. That is why, although I wouldn't totally agree with TF on the church, I do have some sympathy with a young Sean Brady and how he dealt with issues at the time. Where I would part company with Tony is that he and the church really need a bit of mea culpa, Brady should have stood down.

In the 50s and 60s rape of children was wrong and abhorrent, nothing to do with today's standards - what a completely stupid post.

Where did I say it was right, I am talking about how we view the past and the reactions of organisations, I am not condoning it.