Video in Good Shepherd Chapel - Niamh Horan

[muppet]

The Vatican's long term policy of washing their hands of pedophilia and claiming it is a local issue is likely to be catastrophic for the Church.

Tony, do you think the Pope knows about this: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/vatican-wont-extradite-pedophile-archbishop

NICOLE WINFIELD – JANUARY 11, 2014, 10:00 PM EST
VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican has told Polish prosecutors that its former ambassador to the Dominican Republic, under investigation for alleged sex abuse, is covered by diplomatic immunity and that the Vatican doesn't extradite its citizens, Polish officials said in the latest development in an embarrassing case for the Holy See.

Polish Archbishop Josef Wesolowski is the highest-ranking Vatican official to be investigated for alleged sex abuse, and his case has raised questions about whether the Vatican, by removing him from Dominican jurisdiction, was protecting him and placing its own investigations ahead of that of authorities in the Caribbean nation.

The Holy See recalled Wesolowski on Aug. 21 and relieved him of his job after the archbishop of Santo Domingo, Cardinal Nicolas de Jesus Lopez, told Pope Francis in July about rumors that Wesolowski had sexually abused teenage boys in the Dominican Republic. Dominican authorities subsequently opened an investigation, but haven't charged him.

Poland, too, has opened an investigation into Wesolowski and a friend and fellow Polish priest.

Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi has denied Rome was shielding Wesolowski and that the Vatican was cooperating with the investigations while conducting its own probes.

The spokesman for Warsaw's provincial prosecutor's office, Przemyslaw Nowak, told The Associated Press that Polish prosecutors had recently asked the Vatican for information about Wesolowski's legal status as part of its own investigation. He said the Vatican had confirmed that Wesolowski is a citizen of the Vatican city state, that the Vatican doesn't extradite its citizens and that as a nuncio, or Holy See ambassador, Wesolowski enjoys full diplomatic immunity.

No doubt this idiotic decision will be reversed and but the damage, as so often before, will already be done.

[johnneycool]

There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction. Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

Who was this?  Michael Feeney?

Id be very surprised if that can be substantiated. If however there's truth in it, we should be up in arms.

Tony is right on this one, Mick Feeney was indeed sitting up in the VIP section of Clones after his stint in prison for Child abuse.

[theskull1]

There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction. Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

Who was this?  Michael Feeney?

Id be very surprised if that can be substantiated. If however there's truth in it, we should be up in arms.

Tony is right on this one, Mick Feeney was indeed sitting up in the VIP section of Clones after his stint in prison for Child abuse.

Could I ask if anyone here who knew of that was aware of any outrage at the time?  That's news to me

[armaghniac]

There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction. Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

Who was this?  Michael Feeney?

Id be very surprised if that can be substantiated. If however there's truth in it, we should be up in arms.

Tony is right on this one, Mick Feeney was indeed sitting up in the VIP section of Clones after his stint in prison for Child abuse.

Could I ask if anyone here who knew of that was aware of any outrage at the time?  That's news to me

Dare I say that everyone know what was going on, he was in a public stand. Or perhaps these things are not quite as black and white.

[johnneycool]

There have been more than a few paedos in the GAA, and at least one in a high position who is or was accommodated in the best seats post conviction. Does that mean the GAA and all of us in it are corrupt?

Who was this?  Michael Feeney?

Id be very surprised if that can be substantiated. If however there's truth in it, we should be up in arms.

Tony is right on this one, Mick Feeney was indeed sitting up in the VIP section of Clones after his stint in prison for Child abuse.

Could I ask if anyone here who knew of that was aware of any outrage at the time?  That's news to me

There was a bit in the media, but it died down soon enough.

[Orior]

The last two comments by JC and Scull could also have been said by priests. I have never heard any clergyman say outright that he condoned the action of the abusers or said anything to me that would suggest an abuser should be facilitated.

So at a ground level I have immense respect for catholic clergymen. This is backed up by the sacrafice that they made in their lives. Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

I acknowledge that the whole setup of the Church also attracted men who were not interested in girls. But I hope they have addressed that now.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

[take_yer_points]

The last two comments by JC and Scull could also have been said by priests. I have never heard any clergyman say outright that he condoned the action of the abusers or said anything to me that would suggest an abuser should be facilitated.

So at a ground level I have immense respect for catholic clergymen. This is backed up by the sacrafice that they made in their lives. Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

I acknowledge that the whole setup of the Church also attracted men who were not interested in girls. But I hope they have addressed that now.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

Do you think many catholic clergymen who were not abusers and were not involved in the immediate cover up of abuse knew these things were going on? I find it very hard to believe that there wasn't talk amongst clergymen about the abuse and I'd imagine the abusers were well known

Whilst there were some high profile priests involved in covering up the abuse, I suspect knowledge of the abuse and cover up would have been widespread amongst the clergy and for that reason I find it strange that people defend the church. There were the "few bad apples", the people who covered it up and the people who sat idly by and did nothing.

[muppet]

The last two comments by JC and Scull could also have been said by priests. I have never heard any clergyman say outright that he condoned the action of the abusers or said anything to me that would suggest an abuser should be facilitated.

So at a ground level I have immense respect for catholic clergymen. This is backed up by the sacrafice that they made in their lives. Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

I acknowledge that the whole setup of the Church also attracted men who were not interested in girls. But I hope they have addressed that now.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

This is a fair enough Orior.

But Gerry Conlon had no choice.

I genuinely feel sorry for the vast numbers of decent men and women of the clergy. We can all name plenty that we have encountered. They, along with the victims, have been very badly let down by those seeking to protect themselves at all costs.

[Zip Code]

The last two comments by JC and Scull could also have been said by priests. I have never heard any clergyman say outright that he condoned the action of the abusers or said anything to me that would suggest an abuser should be facilitated.

So at a ground level I have immense respect for catholic clergymen. This is backed up by the sacrafice that they made in their lives. Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

I acknowledge that the whole setup of the Church also attracted men who were not interested in girls. But I hope they have addressed that now.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

What if they are gay?

[Orior]

The last two comments by JC and Scull could also have been said by priests. I have never heard any clergyman say outright that he condoned the action of the abusers or said anything to me that would suggest an abuser should be facilitated.

So at a ground level I have immense respect for catholic clergymen. This is backed up by the sacrafice that they made in their lives. Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

I acknowledge that the whole setup of the Church also attracted men who were not interested in girls. But I hope they have addressed that now.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

What if they are gay?

Because the catholic church insisted on celibacy it has attracted a large number of gay men into priesthood in the last century. There is no doubt that that is a major part of the problem. Another problem is that the Church took a very long time to recognise that its congregation will challenge and will speak out, and that it must listen to the congregation.

[AZOffaly]

The last two comments by JC and Scull could also have been said by priests. I have never heard any clergyman say outright that he condoned the action of the abusers or said anything to me that would suggest an abuser should be facilitated.

So at a ground level I have immense respect for catholic clergymen. This is backed up by the sacrafice that they made in their lives. Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

I acknowledge that the whole setup of the Church also attracted men who were not interested in girls. But I hope they have addressed that now.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

What if they are gay?

Because the catholic church insisted on celibacy it has attracted a large number of gay men into priesthood in the last century. There is no doubt that that is a major part of the problem. Another problem is that the Church took a very long time to recognise that its congregation will challenge and will speak out, and that it must listen to the congregation.

Careful here Orior. You seem to be saying that because large numbers of gay men became priests (probably to hide their sexuality in a job where they wouldn't be questioned about not having a wife) that is a major part of the 'problem'. What problem? Abuse of children and subsequent cover ups? Because that's equating gay priests with child abuser priests. Is that what you are trying to say?

I'd be more thinking it was seen as a great avenue for pedophiles because a) They were allowed to be single men without any question, b) They had power and c) They were frequently left alone with the opportunity. Nothing to do with gay or hetero.

[Hardy]

Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

Orior, are you losing your marbles? How can you compare the wrong done to the victim an infamous miscarriage of justice with the freely undertaken career choice of an individual, however noble the motivation may be?

Because the catholic church insisted on celibacy it has attracted a large number of gay men into priesthood in the last century. There is no doubt that that is a major part of the problem.

Which problem? [Edit - just saw your post AZ. That's what prompted my question, too.]

By the way, the Michael Feeney story is a complete red herring. That paedophile was convicted and served his sentence. The GAA didn't try to obstruct his prosecution. To try to compare the accommodation of a post-release criminal with a seat at a football match with a conspiracy to facilitate child rape is bizarre enough to illustrate the lengths to which the conspiracy defenders will go to try to normalise the crime.

[muppet]

Compare Gerry Conlon to a priest. People feel sorry for Gerry and the years he has lost. But a priest gives up the natural urge to date girls, to marry, to raise children. Why? He does it because of his love for God and his devotion to help people like you and me.

Perhaps the above goes some way to explain my desire to defend the Church.

Orior, are you losing your marbles? How can you compare the wrong done to the victim an infamous miscarriage of justice with the freely undertaken career choice of an individual, however noble the motivation may be?

Because the catholic church insisted on celibacy it has attracted a large number of gay men into priesthood in the last century. There is no doubt that that is a major part of the problem.

Which problem? [Edit - just saw your post AZ. That's what prompted my question, too.]

By the way, the Michael Feeney story is a complete red herring. That paedophile was convicted and served his sentence. The GAA didn't try to obstruct his prosecution. To try to compare the accommodation of a post-release criminal with a seat at a football match with a conspiracy to facilitate child rape is bizarre enough to illustrate the lengths to which the conspiracy defenders will go to try to normalise the crime.

I meant to comment on this. I agree with Hardy, distasteful as it is, he served his time and the GAA would be out of order to ban him. Tony however regularly starts threads here positively gushing to tell us that his hero Cardinal Brady has attended a match.

[T Fearon]

On the contrary, Mr Feeney after serving his sentence for committing a heinous crime, was accorded all the privileges (ie a VIP seat presumably free of  charge)  that any senior long serving GAA official might expect, as if nothing happened.

Now compare the treatment of this convicted paedophile with that of Cardinal Brady who did not abuse anyone. That's the extent to which the anti catholic adherents will go,with all ambivalence.

[muppet]

On the contrary, Mr Feeney after serving his sentence for committing a heinous crime, was accorded all the privileges (ie a VIP seat presumably free of  charge)  that any senior long serving GAA official might expect, as if nothing happened.

Now compare the treatment of this convicted paedophile with that of Cardinal Brady who did not abuse anyone. That's the extent to which the anti catholic adherents will go,with all ambivalence.

He did not sexually abuse them.

But to my mind his getting them to sign vows of silence when they told him Brendan Smyth had abused them, under threat of ex-communication, only added to their abuse.

This is not anti-Catholic, it is a material fact. Your sad denial of it and adherence to the tired mantra of Brady, Ratzinger and co will not go away until they tell the whole truth.