More Thuggery on the GAA field

[Sportacus]

Heard Uachtarainn CLG on the news saying the GAA does deal with these things and so it will be in due course with this one once the CCCCCCCCC..... get the report. He singled out Antrim Board for taking a strong stance recently, which indeed they did. But he must have forgotten the Ulster Councils decision to seriously undermine the Antrim penalty's.  As I said before too many cute hoors on committees, all the way to the top so unfortunately we'll not see zero tolerance any time soon.  I wonder would the President elect take this on as a 'cause'. 

[Whishtup]

Dromid Pearses should look long and hard at the following footage and and ask themselves, "Do I see anything in this that I can learn from"

http://youtu.be/UNZMtfY0iX4

Typical tyrone reaction. You don't seem to realise how badly this reflects on the GAA. Of course if this happened within tyrone your county board would probably give both teams a 100 euro fine or some tame punishment like that. Because this was an all ireland game I cant see youse getting off so lightly. My honest opinion is that derrytresk should be thrown out. That would send out a message to clubs that this sort of behaviour is just not on.

It's only as serious as Dromid Pearse's want it to be-they're prepared to sully the name of the GAA in order to repair their damaged pride by costructing a media campaign ( put together, packaged and posted in Kerry) that shows selective footage of one of many contentious incidents that happened on Sunday. 

In effect, they are holding the GAA community to ransom by demanding action against and condemnation of all Derrytresk players and supporters-the cheek of them!
The GAA need to show great strength here and not get caught up in the intended witch-hunt, while handing out individual punishments for players and subs, on both sides, if they deem them to be punishable.

[Lone Shark]

There are a lot of red herrings being thrown into this debate, many of which are serving only to muddy the waters in terms of what actually happened.

(1) Kerry vs Tyrone - utterly irrelevant. The history of the two counties, or either county individually, is nothing to do with this incident. What matters is what happened.
(2) The card count - makes no odds. Lads commit offences on the field of play, refs deal with them. If the issue here was stuff that happened in the course of the game, this wouldn't be a ten page thread.

Totally disagree with both points and not sure how you can empathise with either county on point 1.

I will not speak for the Kerry brigade and their impression of, and antagonism towards, Tyrone. I can only speak for my own county, or rather the attitude towards the Kingdom for a minority I know. I know from interacting with some of those a lot closer to the coalface than I am that there seems to have developed an unhealthy vibe towards Kerry. It stems back to the 2003 game and even the comments I've heard from the Kerry commentators purports to have referenced 2003, Canavan hauling down Gooch and McConnell supposedly poking the eye off Cooper - all in the second half commentary of the Derrytresk/Dromid game which also suggests they harbour a few grievances towards Tyrone.

When it spilled over in Omagh a few years ago the venom on the faces of both sides/supporters (esp in the stand) was frightening. When have you ever seen Jack O'Connor react like that? What I'm saying is - and in no way am I saying it was premeditated by Derrytresk on the day or used as a motivational tactic - there's a relatively new disdain between a fraction of both sets of supporters and it added to the mix. I know - i've seen it and heard it on a regular basis.

As for point two - it was all part of the unfortunate ingredients that day. They may play 100 times and that was the only time the menace was perfectly formed for the regrettable reactions afterwards.

Just to pick up on this, just because I'm not from Kerry or Tyrone doesn't mean that I don't understand that sometimes there is more at stake than simply the result on the day. What I'm saying is that when lads are playing for their club, their parish, and alongside their friends and family, I'm pretty sure the notion of avenging a county game that 97% of them didn't even tog out for is likely to be a long way down your list of priorities. For God's sake it's a chance to get to Croke Park with a village club that never dreamed of such things - it's a huge occasion and settling scores wouldn't enter into any rational man's head.

However all that said, it remains utterly irrelevant because it's no excuse. Even if I do perceive people from Kerry/Tyrone to be animals/thugs/pussycats, I'm not allowed to act on that perception and if I do, I should be punished just the same as my offence was committed against any other team anywhere in the GAA. I utterly, utterly abhor the idea that we need to set a context for these actions. What happened, happened, and those actions should be sanctioned as such. Asking people to factor in a Kerry/Tyrone rivalry as mitigation is as nonsensical as taking eejits from the radio as cast iron eye witnesses and punishing people because others felt there was an "air of menace".



Secondly, a string of cards for Dromid hardly gives cause for subs and supporters to reach boiling point. All this proves to me is that the referee was happy to punish any transgressions from Dromid players that he saw. In the course of the game Derrytresk got five scores from frees, Dromid one - now I didn't see the game, but that suggests to me that the referee was quite willing to penalise the Kerrymen and Derrytresk were getting more than their share of decisions. Those decisions were probably warranted, but it proves that there was no cause for any sense of injustice on behalf of the Derrytresk players. The card count might be a factor (though not an excuse) for the Dromid bench erupting, but not the Derrytresk panel.

[tyssam5]

There are a lot of red herrings being thrown into this debate, many of which are serving only to muddy the waters in terms of what actually happened.

(1) Kerry vs Tyrone - utterly irrelevant. The history of the two counties, or either county individually, is nothing to do with this incident. What matters is what happened.
(2) The card count - makes no odds. Lads commit offences on the field of play, refs deal with them. If the issue here was stuff that happened in the course of the game, this wouldn't be a ten page thread.

Totally disagree with both points and not sure how you can empathise with either county on point 1.

I will not speak for the Kerry brigade and their impression of, and antagonism towards, Tyrone. I can only speak for my own county, or rather the attitude towards the Kingdom for a minority I know. I know from interacting with some of those a lot closer to the coalface than I am that there seems to have developed an unhealthy vibe towards Kerry. It stems back to the 2003 game and even the comments I've heard from the Kerry commentators purports to have referenced 2003, Canavan hauling down Gooch and McConnell supposedly poking the eye off Cooper - all in the second half commentary of the Derrytresk/Dromid game which also suggests they harbour a few grievances towards Tyrone.

When it spilled over in Omagh a few years ago the venom on the faces of both sides/supporters (esp in the stand) was frightening. When have you ever seen Jack O'Connor react like that? What I'm saying is - and in no way am I saying it was premeditated by Derrytresk on the day or used as a motivational tactic - there's a relatively new disdain between a fraction of both sets of supporters and it added to the mix. I know - i've seen it and heard it on a regular basis.

As for point two - it was all part of the unfortunate ingredients that day. They may play 100 times and that was the only time the menace was perfectly formed for the regrettable reactions afterwards.

Just to pick up on this, just because I'm not from Kerry or Tyrone doesn't mean that I don't understand that sometimes there is more at stake than simply the result on the day. What I'm saying is that when lads are playing for their club, their parish, and alongside their friends and family, I'm pretty sure the notion of avenging a county game that 97% of them didn't even tog out for is likely to be a long way down your list of priorities. For God's sake it's a chance to get to Croke Park with a village club that never dreamed of such things - it's a huge occasion and settling scores wouldn't enter into any rational man's head.

However all that said, it remains utterly irrelevant because it's no excuse. Even if I do perceive people from Kerry/Tyrone to be animals/thugs/pussycats, I'm not allowed to act on that perception and if I do, I should be punished just the same as my offence was committed against any other team anywhere in the GAA. I utterly, utterly abhor the idea that we need to set a context for these actions. What happened, happened, and those actions should be sanctioned as such. Asking people to factor in a Kerry/Tyrone rivalry as mitigation is as nonsensical as taking eejits from the radio as cast iron eye witnesses and punishing people because others felt there was an "air of menace".



Secondly, a string of cards for Dromid hardly gives cause for subs and supporters to reach boiling point. All this proves to me is that the referee was happy to punish any transgressions from Dromid players that he saw. In the course of the game Derrytresk got five scores from frees, Dromid one - now I didn't see the game, but that suggests to me that the referee was quite willing to penalise the Kerrymen and Derrytresk were getting more than their share of decisions. Those decisions were probably warranted, but it proves that there was no cause for any sense of injustice on behalf of the Derrytresk players. The card count might be a factor (though not an excuse) for the Dromid bench erupting, but not the Derrytresk panel.

Suppose it would depend on what kinds of things they were for? But as someone pointed out earlier the only half reasonable excuse you could think of for subs entering the field like that would be if their players in the vicinity were out-numbered and getting battered. That for sure wasn't happening. The card count does however add a little perspective to the 'whiter than white' bullshit that comes out of Kerry full time.

[tyssam5]

who had 2 players sent off, as well as picking up twice as many yellow cards as the winning team,

If the Derrytresk subs, supporters and mentors are doing most of the the belting for Derrytresk while it's the players on their own doing the belting for Dromid then obviously Dromid players are going to have more yellow and red cards than the Derrytresk players. 

Was thinking the same, but they only got the one each out of the melee. At least the ref was honest enough in basically saying he couldn't make head nor shite of what happened. Normally it's a red each for two of the biggest/easiest to pick out on each team.

[ONeill]

LS, you seem to interpret things in a rather exaggerated manner. You seem to want to believe I'm making an excuse.

No one is excusing anything here. No one was settling scores for previous games. Setting a context isn't finding an excuse - it's more of a psychological observation and I know I'm correct about this. I listened to normally rational friends and relatives spouting frighteningly irrational beliefs about Kerry v Ulster and even the rest of Ireland v Ulster. During the height of the Tyrone/Derry rivalry of the 90s and Tyrone/Armagh rivalry of the 00s nasty incidents occurred on and off the pitch more than ever compared to before or after. Really poisonous atmospheres. It would even spill down to club friendlies and the dancefloors. I honestly believe both sets of fans and players had ill-informed preconceptions of their opponents and that added fuel to the fire.

A string of yellows can suggest a certain type of game, especially when you consider that only two of those yellows were a result of the 'brawl'. It's a weak enough observation but it possibly can suggest where there aggressor was on the field.

[Main Street]

Again, I ask why the fact that two Dromid players crossed the white line to attack an official is being ignored?

Looks like the Dromid player was off the pitch holding the ball looking to take a sideline after the Derrytresk player was shouldered out over the sideline. The Derrytresk official with the clipboard piled into him from behind so he turned around and swung at him. Doesn't excuse a swinging fist but the Derrytresk offical had no business aggresively getting involved with one of the opposition players. After that all the subs and officials piled in over the hoardings.

The clipboard man looked like he was protecting himself and then moved well away from the melee.
I had a look at the scrap on You Tube,  I don't know which team is blue or which is maroon. I couldn't make out which shirt colour  was more guilty.
But hey, if everybody else wants to string up the team from Tyrone, I'm  game.

[ONeill]

You'll have to get behind Dick in the queue.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Again, I ask why the fact that two Dromid players crossed the white line to attack an official is being ignored?

Looks like the Dromid player was off the pitch holding the ball looking to take a sideline after the Derrytresk player was shouldered out over the sideline. The Derrytresk official with the clipboard piled into him from behind so he turned around and swung at him. Doesn't excuse a swinging fist but the Derrytresk offical had no business aggresively getting involved with one of the opposition players. After that all the subs and officials piled in over the hoardings.

The clipboard man looked like he was protecting himself and then moved well away from the melee.

Think it's fairly clear he either had a kick at or shoved the Dromid player in the back first. Then the Dromid player swung round to have a dig back at him.

Thought it was a shove yesterday but looking at it more closely today it looks more like he aimed a kick or a trip. If you pause it at the right spot you can see it. Right foot on the ground kicking with the left.

[Main Street]

You'll have to get behind Dick in the queue.

Dick Clerkin?
Dick is man enough to see the error of a prejudice even if it concerns Tyrone.

"Sorry my apologies, seemingly nothing happened in Portlaoise at wknd and if anything it was only handbag stuff! Sorry I couldn't resist!"

"To be fair there is alot of southern bias on this whole debacle, have seen the footage, plenty of Kerry lads throwing shapes!!"

Judging by the 2 exclamations used, Dick takes a dim view of 'throwing shapes'.

[ONeill]

History repeating itself (sorta)

Crokes livid over 'unsavoury' incidents but won't appeal club final result

By Tony Leen

Tuesday, April 03, 2007

DR CROKES will not appeal the result of Sunday's controversial All-Ireland club final, but will file a letter of complaint to Croke Park detailing allegations of several "unsavoury" incidents involving Crossmaglen officials and supporters during and after the game.

The incidents in question had left "a sour taste", according to Dr Crokes chairman, Patrick O'Sullivan. He said Dr Crokes felt more aggrieved about these incidents than the failure of referee Eugene Murtagh to send off Crossmaglen's John McEntee, despite showing him two yellow cards.

"The club is very bitter about the stuff that went on, far more so than on the yellow card. I've had a lot of parents onto me today expressing their disgust, and looking for action from the GAA.

"We had 40 kids there on Sunday, and it was a poor advert for the GAA."

The Croke Park complaint will detail several allegations — that two Dr Crokes subs were "intimidated" by a Crossmaglen "maor uisce" at the end of the first half, that Crokes midfielder Ambrose O'Donovan was struck in the back of the head by a Crossmaglen fan after being sent off, and that Gardaí had to twice intervene to stop other Crokes subs sitting in the stand being threatened by Crossmaglen fans.

The Crokes chairman claimed that a couple of Crossmaglen supporters were evicted from the area as a result by Gardaí and stewards.

O'Sullivan added that no-one from the winning camp saw fit to visit the Dr Crokes dressing room after the game — even though the chairman and coach, Pat O'Shea both visited the winners' celebrations afterwards.

"If this is the kind of antics that Crossmaglen are going to bring to the game, then it is little wonder that Ulster football gets so much bad publicity," the Dr Crokes chairman said.

"We felt obliged to draw the Gardaí's attention to two of the incidents — the sideline intimidation and the O'Donovan incident with a fan."

He said Crokes officials had brought the referee's mistake on John McEntee to the attention of the linesman, and claimed they were "more or less told to get stuffed."

Crokes are also fuming at the lack of protection afforded to their star player, Colm Cooper, which Mr O'Sullivan claimed went way beyond the normal "rough and tumble" of gaelic football.

"There's no doubt that certain Crokes players were targeted — Colm, Eoin Brosnan and Kieran O'Leary," he claimed.

Crossmaglen chairman Tommy Coleman said he was unaware of such allegations. "This is news to me," he said last night. "I didn't see anything unsavoury at the game."

"I did see the Gardaí over in front of the subs but from where I was sitting at the other side I couldn't hear or see exactly what happened."

He stressed: "This wouldn't be our style and we would not condone that kind of carry on by anyone associated with the club."

Mr Coleman said that he and club chiefs would have no problem investigating any claims of wrong doing.

"If we need to have an investigation, we will have an investigation. We have our own video and the video from TG4 which we can study if we need to. But as I said I didn't see any problem."

Mr Coleman admitted that the controversies since Sunday have 'taken the gloss' off Crossmaglen's win — their fourth All Ireland title in 10 years.

"It has taken some of the gloss off it. First you had the controversy over the two yellow cards and now this. But the referee made a mistake not us. We played exceptionally well and Pat O'Shea has acknowledged that fact."

GAA President Nickey Brennan said yesterday he will ask "serious questions" about the McEntee affair, but does not believe his dismissal would have changed the course of the game.

"I'm as frustrated as anyone else that such a situation occurred. I personally don't believe it had an impact on the game but that is not the issue at stake. I wouldn't be happy with it and there will be people I have to talk to about how it can be solved in the future.''

The Competitions Control Committee (CCC) will consider Murtagh's report today. Meanwhile Brennan will also be asking the referees co-ordinator Pierce Freaney how such a mistake occurred and looking at potential solutions, agreeing with one suggestion that the burden for totting up cards could be removed from the referee to the fourth official.

"If we have to change the way things happen, let's change them. Whatever has to happen, let's do it. (We must) see where along the line did we slip up so that we can get the matter sorted out going forward. It shouldn't have happened."

Read more: http://irishexaminer.com/archives/2007/0403/sport/crokes-livid-over-unsavoury-incidents-but-wont-appeal-club-final-result-29460.html#ixzz1kPXGEAqr

[Main Street]

Again, I ask why the fact that two Dromid players crossed the white line to attack an official is being ignored?

Looks like the Dromid player was off the pitch holding the ball looking to take a sideline after the Derrytresk player was shouldered out over the sideline. The Derrytresk official with the clipboard piled into him from behind so he turned around and swung at him. Doesn't excuse a swinging fist but the Derrytresk offical had no business aggresively getting involved with one of the opposition players. After that all the subs and officials piled in over the hoardings.

The clipboard man looked like he was protecting himself and then moved well away from the melee.

Think it's fairly clear he either had a kick at or shoved the Dromid player in the back first. Then the Dromid player swung round to have a dig back at him.

Thought it was a shove yesterday but looking at it more closely today it looks more like he aimed a kick or a trip. If you pause it at the right spot you can see it. Right foot on the ground kicking with the left.

Nah I don't see the kick, I just see him aggressively fending off the maroon shirted player and we don't see what caused that reaction in the first place.
But clipboard man shouldn't have been there, should he?
I remember a Dublin clipboard man came onto the pitch and directed a head butt towards Tommy Freeman in a league game at Parnell Pk while a game was in progress and entering a very crucial stage. It took a few days before the Dublin board named the culprit.

[ONeill]

Be very wary of men with clipboards and women with handbags.

[Jinxy]

Dromid have pissed a lot of people off the way they have handled this. They're the ones running to the media and whinging (which is nothing more than sour grapes). Nobody is denying that Derrytresk acted appallingly and they were worse than Dromid because of their subs. Dromid, however, have tried to claim that they are the victims and they have tried to paint an angelic picture of themselves when it couldn't be further from the truth. They acted like corner boys too. The other thing is that they have put out that there is 'more horrific' stuff than what we saw but refuse to say what it is. An annoying bunch of t**ts, tbh.

While I'd agree to a certain extent HS, there does seem to be a pretty clear 'action-reaction' dynamic here. So while Dromid certainly didn't cover themselves in glory, their actions seemed to be in response to what had gone before. If someone grabbed me by the balls I would want to see him suffer. It's never happened to me and I've never been on a field where any other player has complained of it happening to him. It would seem it happened to a number of Dromid players at the start of this game. So while Dromid played their full part in the handbags, it would seem that Derrytresk set the tone. After that, it's inevitable it will all kick off. It's undeniable that Tyrone club football is earning itself a very nasty rep throughout the wider GAA community. Tyrone people would say that's unfair as unsavoury incidents happen all over the country and maybe that's true. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of such incidents in Tyrone however. To be honest, I couldn't care less about players pulling and dragging on the pitch. It's 15 v 15 and lads can look after themselves. But this craic of fans getting involved with each other and opposition players has to stop.

[AZOffaly]

How do you know anyone had their bag gripped or have you just been sucked in by the Dromid PR machine?

The Dromid PR machine. Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd see

In 6 months time some people will look back at some stuff they said in papers and cringe I think but there is no doubt that they feel very strongly that they were subject to stuff they had never experienced before. I think if they had a PR machine it'd have been handled differently but I know this is not simply a case of sour grapes.