Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[marty34]

Last I heard of Donnncha Gilmore he had injured his shoulder and had to get surgery. Another lad who has had his fair share of injuries. Agreed, he would be an asset for this panel and it would be great to have another city man on the panel.

Hopefully we will see him back. Could see him slotting with the other 7 of the 2020 AI Minor team on the panel - some return indeed.
Diamond, Downey, Higgins, McEvoy, McGurk, Murray, O'Donnell.
 

Thats a tough sell for me there, not sure where he fits personally, I think old rules protected individuals with slightly less football ability. ( Diplomatic?)

Don't see place for him in the back 6 or in the next 5 either. Going off 6 that started at weekend plus Clucky, Mc Evoy, Bradley, Mc Gurk, Mulholland.
O' Mianain another half back option I would think.

I get the importance of building a squad but has to be with right people, and also they need to be from South Derry.

Joking

Fairly harsh, better footballer than most you mentioned

I listened to Irish News podcast a few weeks ago and Cathair O'Kane was praising south Derry clubs for the work they're doing and discussed about how if Derry could harness a few more high quality players from north Derry, that they'd be even stronger. I'd say 90% are from south Derry club - which is a small enough area geographically.

I wonder what the breakdown is of county panels in terms of how many players they have from junior clubs? Be interesting to see I think.

From the 26 man squad on Sunday:
- 25 from South Derry (Baker only ND)
- 24 from Senior Championship
 (Murray and Loughlin only two not, both from intermediate)

I'd say his 90% estimate is low.

90% was my estimate.

But the point being it'd be good to find out, just curious, what's the breakdown of players' clubs in terms of senior, intermediate and junior.

I might start a thread on it. Just to compare different counties.

[HonDerry]

Last I heard of Donnncha Gilmore he had injured his shoulder and had to get surgery. Another lad who has had his fair share of injuries. Agreed, he would be an asset for this panel and it would be great to have another city man on the panel.

Hopefully we will see him back. Could see him slotting with the other 7 of the 2020 AI Minor team on the panel - some return indeed.
Diamond, Downey, Higgins, McEvoy, McGurk, Murray, O'Donnell.
 

Thats a tough sell for me there, not sure where he fits personally, I think old rules protected individuals with slightly less football ability. ( Diplomatic?)

Don't see place for him in the back 6 or in the next 5 either. Going off 6 that started at weekend plus Clucky, Mc Evoy, Bradley, Mc Gurk, Mulholland.
O' Mianain another half back option I would think.

I get the importance of building a squad but has to be with right people, and also they need to be from South Derry.

Joking

Fairly harsh, better footballer than most you mentioned

Back to the 2020 AI winning team, Gilmore was arguably the most athletic player on that team. While on the senior panel for the past couple of year he was travelling from Dublin while studying. Not many would be fit for that. And if he does indeed "have slightly less football ability," then being on the panel will surely help close any gaps.

Yes, it would be hard to get past the six established backs we have, Clucky, McEvoy, Baker, CD, McKinless, McGrogan. Ruairi Forbes has really put hand up this year too. After that, Gilmore would compete with any of the other backs on the panel.

In the long-term interests of Derry football, we should all want to see more development of city clubs, and having a couple of men like Gilmore and Baker on the panel to show them what is possible can only help with that.

[OakleafCounty]

Would like to see Gilmore and McMonagle both back in the panel. I think McMonagle wasn't given adequate game time at all when he was in, and had an excellent club championship. Not sure if he wasn't selected or opted out for this year but with Conor McAteer and Jack Doherty both opting out you'd think he would be the first forward they would be ringing.

[OakleafCounty]

Last I heard of Donnncha Gilmore he had injured his shoulder and had to get surgery. Another lad who has had his fair share of injuries. Agreed, he would be an asset for this panel and it would be great to have another city man on the panel.

Hopefully we will see him back. Could see him slotting with the other 7 of the 2020 AI Minor team on the panel - some return indeed.
Diamond, Downey, Higgins, McEvoy, McGurk, Murray, O'Donnell.
 

Thats a tough sell for me there, not sure where he fits personally, I think old rules protected individuals with slightly less football ability. ( Diplomatic?)

Don't see place for him in the back 6 or in the next 5 either. Going off 6 that started at weekend plus Clucky, Mc Evoy, Bradley, Mc Gurk, Mulholland.
O' Mianain another half back option I would think.

I get the importance of building a squad but has to be with right people, and also they need to be from South Derry.

Joking

Fairly harsh, better footballer than most you mentioned

I listened to Irish News podcast a few weeks ago and Cathair O'Kane was praising south Derry clubs for the work they're doing and discussed about how if Derry could harness a few more high quality players from north Derry, that they'd be even stronger. I'd say 90% are from south Derry club - which is a small enough area geographically.

I wonder what the breakdown is of county panels in terms of how many players they have from junior clubs? Be interesting to see I think.

Derry have always fell short when it comes to developing good players from Intermediate and Junior clubs into the County squad in comparison to Tyrone and Kerry for example. Lachlan Murray and Niall Loughlin are welcome exceptions but did they come through certain big schools to get noticed?

Paddy Cunningham is an Antrim legend in terms of his scoring and would have been good enough for Derry at the time. In his youth he grew up in the Waterside and played for Ardmore. If he hadn't moved to Belfast I don't think anyone would have heard of him because Derry wouldn't have given him a sniff.

[Newbridge Exile]

Last I heard of Donnncha Gilmore he had injured his shoulder and had to get surgery. Another lad who has had his fair share of injuries. Agreed, he would be an asset for this panel and it would be great to have another city man on the panel.

Hopefully we will see him back. Could see him slotting with the other 7 of the 2020 AI Minor team on the panel - some return indeed.
Diamond, Downey, Higgins, McEvoy, McGurk, Murray, O'Donnell.
 

Thats a tough sell for me there, not sure where he fits personally, I think old rules protected individuals with slightly less football ability. ( Diplomatic?)

Don't see place for him in the back 6 or in the next 5 either. Going off 6 that started at weekend plus Clucky, Mc Evoy, Bradley, Mc Gurk, Mulholland.
O' Mianain another half back option I would think.

I get the importance of building a squad but has to be with right people, and also they need to be from South Derry.

Joking

Fairly harsh, better footballer than most you mentioned

I listened to Irish News podcast a few weeks ago and Cathair O'Kane was praising south Derry clubs for the work they're doing and discussed about how if Derry could harness a few more high quality players from north Derry, that they'd be even stronger. I'd say 90% are from south Derry club - which is a small enough area geographically.

I wonder what the breakdown is of county panels in terms of how many players they have from junior clubs? Be interesting to see I think.

Derry have always fell short when it comes to developing good players from Intermediate and Junior clubs into the County squad in comparison to Tyrone and Kerry for example. Lachlan Murray and Niall Loughlin are welcome exceptions but did they come through certain big schools to get noticed?

Paddy Cunningham is an Antrim legend in terms of his scoring and would have been good enough for Derry at the time. In his youth he grew up in the Waterside and played for Ardmore. If he hadn't moved to Belfast I don't think anyone would have heard of him because Derry wouldn't have given him a sniff.

In was interesting listening to the Monday Club Irish news podcast a few weeks ago when  Cahair O'Kane had noted that the last player from a junior club to play senior championship football for Derry was Mickey O'Brien from  the Loup back in 1980

[Wildweasel74]

I wss looking at a Derry NFL team from the Mid 80's and 11 starters were North Derry.

[tbrick18]

Serious question - do people think Derry managers don't give consideration to players from North Derry or Intermediate/Junior clubs?
I think managers want the best players available to them, regardless of club.
Is it possible, there just isn't players at the moment from those North Derry or Junior clubs who are good enough? I think that's the more likely case rather than players not being picked due to their club.

I think Gilmore is good enough based on how he played last year, for a panel spot.
McMonagle I'm not as sure of, though I didn't see them play at club level, so maybe he is.
Ultimately, the management team pick who they think adds to the panel based on quality imo.

[OakleafCounty]

Agreed that the best players are in South Derry. That has always been the case and probably always will be but since RG came in it has become even more pronounced. In the past Dungiven would always have had 2 or 3 important players in the panel along with 1 or 2 from Glenullin or Banagher respectively and we briefly had Coleraine weighing in with the McGoldricks. But only having one Steelstown player representing the whole of North Derry highlights that there is definitely an issue with developing County standard players and some sort of intervention is required because the clubs and schools in North Derry can't seem to do it themselves.

A possible solution or catalyst could be a divisional academy for underage players not that aren't just meeting the grade for the development squads. That's really a role that schools should be fulfilling but they aren't.

[Mario]

I've never cared about the North Derry/South Derry split. Ideally, I'd like Dungiven representation in the county team but after that it makes no difference to me if other players are from Derry or Ballinderry. I don't think there is discrimination going on because you live on one side of the Glenshane pass and not the other.

These days, the main route to the county team is via development squads.

[Rawhide]

Agreed that the best players are in South Derry. That has always been the case and probably always will be but since RG came in it has become even more pronounced. In the past Dungiven would always have had 2 or 3 important players in the panel along with 1 or 2 from Glenullin or Banagher respectively and we briefly had Coleraine weighing in with the McGoldricks. But only having one Steelstown player representing the whole of North Derry highlights that there is definitely an issue with developing County standard players and some sort of intervention is required because the clubs and schools in North Derry can't seem to do it themselves.

A possible solution or catalyst could be a divisional academy for underage players not that aren't just meeting the grade for the development squads. That's really a role that schools should be fulfilling but they aren't.

I recall Damian Cassidy conducting a review of coaching & games in Derry with Sean McGoldrick, Philip Kerr, Danny Quinn, Brian O'Donnell and came up with a host of recommendations that was presented to the clubs, all really good ideas. One I recall was 4 divisional teams made up from jun & intermediate teams to play in the senior championship I think with 12 senior clubs, which those jun & intermediate clubs were interested in, similar to Kerry. County Board didn't drive most of the ideas that were agreed with the clubs. I did a quick search on the derry website and found it https://derrygaa.ie/coaching-and-development-strategy/

[oakleaflad]

A lot seem to miss the fact that a lot of North Derry clubs are just much smaller in size. They aren't producing county players in the same way that Moneymore or Ballymaguigan aren't. To just lump them in as poorly coached etc. is somewhat wrong in my view.

Someone I know was recently involved in submitting an U12.5 team for the next couple months to bridge the gap between Go Games and U14s.

Most clubs in Derry have entered and had to submit their number of year 8 boys. It really opened my eyes. Ballinascreen, Glen and Magherafelt had 20+ year 8 boys. Every other South Derry club that entered had 10+ year 8 boys.
Some of the North Derry clubs, you could count on one hand how many they had.
This isn't to bash anyone, the clubs entered and are trying. But it is an eye-opener.
Realistically bar Dungiven, Steelstown and maybe Limavady and Faughanvale at times, the clubs wont have anywhere near the same population to compete with.

[Cluborcountywhynotboth]

I've weighed in on this before so I'll try not to than rant too long but my opinion is that yes there are a lot more players from south derry with inter county ability, but there is definitely a bias at underage to 'established' or big clubs. If you are a young chap from a small north Derry club vying for a place on a development panel against someone from a traditional big club the odds are against you due to the historical bias and the fact alot of the coaches are from these clubs. While the difference might be small at say 15 by the time these players get to senior level one has been involved in county set up and all the benefits that brings for a number of years and the other has only had club football and coaching, so athletically and ability wise the gap is now huge. It's no coincidence that steelstown are the only north Derry club with senior representatives and they have had Hugh McGrath involved at underage for a number of years championing their players cause.
And it's not just at young age groups, for example, I've been speaking to a few of the under 20 management in recent weeks and they are waxing lyrical about young Bryson from Faughanvale, apparently he is standing out with the 20s this year in training and challenge games and was decent last year too, yet doesn't seem to be ever mentioned in despatches on here despite numerous names from the panel being named as possibles for the the future, and doesn't seem to be getting looked at by management either. He didn't come through the development route and isn't from a big club so isn't earmarked for the future no matter what he does is my point.

In short players need opportunities and exposure at the younger age groups to develop, and while there is and always will be more players of that standard in south Derry due to the clubs and the schooling, we need to find a way to open up path ways to more players of the requisite ability from the north and city.

[Ryan O]

The argument always was that their was bias from management from South to North, having had 3 Tyrone men in a row I think we can safely put that narrative to bed. It doesn't exist, they would pick ND players if they were good enough.

Now there is 5 North Derry teams in Senior football it definitely seems there is a push on there with Limavady, Faughanvale and Glenullin all moving up. This will hopefully benefit the county as a whole.

In regards to development squads I get somewhat what the issue is here but I do believe its a self inflicted one. The bigger clubs in Derry push themselves to the front when getting the children exposure.

Every club was requested to pick 5 of their best and send them for trials. I know of at least 3 clubs who sent 6/7/8 and forced the decision making to development managers, while getting more of their players exposure.
If you send 8 you'll probably get 4 if you send 4 you might get 2, numbers game.

Also the comfort a young lad has when on a pitch with 5 or 6 of his clubmates is massive.

And just for the record my club isn't one that pushes ourselves to the forefront and we're South Derry, I think if you want noticed start making noise around Owenbeg. Can't blame individuals who volunteer up there for being slightly more loyal to their own clubs.

[jb77]

Paddy Tally gave a fair a run as any, Ben McCarron got plenty of game time unfortunately it probably didn't work out but an impressive player for Sigerson in his time and club.

Seen a bit of Glen playing a challenge game last Friday night, big Emmett Bradley as impressive as ever, Danny McDermott was lively. McFaul, Jack D, Conleth McGuckian all playing good stuff as well.

[Stickittotheman]

On that podcast about Derry and Tyrone demographics Kenny Archer completely dismissed Cahair's take on GAA in the city. A few days later the BBC did a voxpop in the city to get people's thoughts on the naming of Celtic Park to FindInsurance Celtic Park. Most people said they didn't really have much of an opinion as they were more soccer people. It completely backed the point O'Kane was making a few days earlier.

Well across the city there are around 6k playing underage soccer. There are 4k playing Gaelic football. One of the reasons why soccer is far bigger in the city is because of Derry City FC. Probably 2nd biggest club in Ireland behind Shamrock Rovers? Linfield up there too. Of course people are going to be drawn to such a big club right on their doorstep. Playing in the Southern league cant be underestimated either.

But something that is never ever discussed is the difficulty of playing Gaelic football in an urban area. Most people live in terraced housing with very little space, particularly back or front gardens. Space is at a premium. Even outside space is at a premium. It's far easier to stick two jumpers down as goalposts and play some soccer in street. Great strides have been made in the last decade with underage teams. It will always be 2nd fiddle in the city though. Just how it is.