This cattle cull is a handlin.
Surely there was a more common sense way to deal with 51 cattle in a field than turning it into an open air shooting range?
UFU now calling for Minister, Perm Sec and Chief Vet Brian Dooher to resign, plus a pile on from DUP, UUP, TUV.
Feels like there are multiple agendas here?
They should have got the farmer too and seized the land. Would be too good for him.
There's a story behind this which is yet to come out. Some operational person made a huge blunder. I find it hard to blame the minister.
Quote from: Orior on August 14, 2026, 12:59:50 PMThere's a story behind this which is yet to come out. Some operational person made a huge blunder. I find it hard to blame the minister.
Yeah I highly doubt Muir gave the order.
Strange one in general but the loudest voices are the usual gobshites who if they said it was raining you'd double check.
Were the cattle sick or not?
This is unionism (DUP & TUV) going after Alliance. That's what it's all about.
I'd say there was zero nationalist farmers at that protest at Stormont the other day.
There's an election in about 9 months.
Quote from: marty34 on August 14, 2026, 02:06:02 PMThis is unionism (DUP & TUV) going after Alliance. That's what it's all about.
I'd say there was zero nationalist farmers at that protest at Stormont the other day.
There's an election in about 9 months.
Looks that way. But surely there was a better way to handle the situation? Haven't really given that much attention myself given the pricks that are pushing it.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 02:10:08 PMQuote from: marty34 on August 14, 2026, 02:06:02 PMThis is unionism (DUP & TUV) going after Alliance. That's what it's all about.
I'd say there was zero nationalist farmers at that protest at Stormont the other day.
There's an election in about 9 months.
Looks that way. But surely there was a better way to handle the situation? Haven't really given that much attention myself given the pricks that are pushing it.
Fair point Armagh18. Me either but can see what way it's going after a few days.
The big mistake was made was that the police were not there from the start to close the road while this was going on. When darea talk about lessons learnt this is what they are on about.
It wasn't an ideal way of dealing with this but the department were never going to rock up and walk these cattle into a shed or lorry any farmer knows this.
The fact the ole cnut went out and got more cattle after his previous conviction for animal cruelty should be more talked about and I know of a farmer local to me who was also convicted now has a shed full of cattle, there should be unannounced inspections being carried out on anyone convicted to make sure this doesn't happen.
As said, when you see the who was at the protest it just says it all. SF/SDLP were never getting up on that low loader to speak under that stupid Carson statue with the type of crowd there.
I have to admit Muir is not the face for agriculture but at the end of the day he is only the puppet that is there for the photo opportunities and structured words.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 12:40:45 PMThis cattle cull is a handlin.
Surely there was a more common sense way to deal with 51 cattle in a field than turning it into an open air shooting range?
UFU now calling for Minister, Perm Sec and Chief Vet Brian Dooher to resign, plus a pile on from DUP, UUP, TUV.
Feels like there are multiple agendas here?
Was reading that a local farmer turned up halfway through it and offered to buy the cattle, which the officials agreed to. However, by now the cattle were going buck mad and had escaped into the road and were a safety risk.
Quote from: Hereiam on August 14, 2026, 02:22:58 PMThe big mistake was made was that the police were not there from the start to close the road while this was going on. When darea talk about lessons learnt this is what they are on about.
It wasn't an ideal way of dealing with this but the department were never going to rock up and walk these cattle into a shed or lorry any farmer knows this.
The fact the ole cnut went out and got more cattle after his previous conviction for animal cruelty should be more talked about and I know of a farmer local to me who was also convicted now has a shed full of cattle, there should be unannounced inspections being carried out on anyone convicted to make sure this doesn't happen.
As said, when you see the who was at the protest it just says it all. SF/SDLP were never getting up on that lower loader to speak under that stupid Carson statue with the type of crowd there.
I have to admit Muir is not the face for agriculture but at the end of the day he is only the puppet that is there for the photo opportunities and structured words.
Why what was wrong with them?
Quote from: marty34 on August 14, 2026, 02:06:02 PMThis is unionism (DUP & TUV) going after Alliance. That's what it's all about.
yet no one ever asks these UFU guys about the pollution that farmers are wrecking the rivers lakes with
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 02:35:38 PMQuote from: Hereiam on August 14, 2026, 02:22:58 PMThe big mistake was made was that the police were not there from the start to close the road while this was going on. When darea talk about lessons learnt this is what they are on about.
It wasn't an ideal way of dealing with this but the department were never going to rock up and walk these cattle into a shed or lorry any farmer knows this.
The fact the ole cnut went out and got more cattle after his previous conviction for animal cruelty should be more talked about and I know of a farmer local to me who was also convicted now has a shed full of cattle, there should be unannounced inspections being carried out on anyone convicted to make sure this doesn't happen.
As said, when you see the who was at the protest it just says it all. SF/SDLP were never getting up on that lower loader to speak under that stupid Carson statue with the type of crowd there.
I have to admit Muir is not the face for agriculture but at the end of the day he is only the puppet that is there for the photo opportunities and structured words.
Why what was wrong with them?
Nothing wrong with them but cattle are not the easiest animal to handle especially cows with calves as if they see someone they don't know .....the tails are up. It only takes one to cause the rest to become demons and they will run.
The only hope they had of getting them in a crush or shed would have been the farmer giving them meal every day and they would follow him if he had a bucket in his hand. I suspect they were not getting any meal and he would not have been around them to much.
The main agenda is just get rid of Muir because "hes agin farmers and doesnt know farming".
Also was in Friends of the Earth so you can imagine how paranoid it would make them. Bill Gates also involved with the WEF who control Dooher using Elon Musks satellites.
Do any ministers know anything about their portfolio?
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/more/northern-ireland/daera-minister-cuts-ties-with-green-group-804185
Quote from: Hereiam on August 14, 2026, 03:20:35 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 02:35:38 PMQuote from: Hereiam on August 14, 2026, 02:22:58 PMThe big mistake was made was that the police were not there from the start to close the road while this was going on. When darea talk about lessons learnt this is what they are on about.
It wasn't an ideal way of dealing with this but the department were never going to rock up and walk these cattle into a shed or lorry any farmer knows this.
The fact the ole cnut went out and got more cattle after his previous conviction for animal cruelty should be more talked about and I know of a farmer local to me who was also convicted now has a shed full of cattle, there should be unannounced inspections being carried out on anyone convicted to make sure this doesn't happen.
As said, when you see the who was at the protest it just says it all. SF/SDLP were never getting up on that lower loader to speak under that stupid Carson statue with the type of crowd there.
I have to admit Muir is not the face for agriculture but at the end of the day he is only the puppet that is there for the photo opportunities and structured words.
Why what was wrong with them?
Nothing wrong with them but cattle are not the easiest animal to handle especially cows with calves as if they see someone they don't know .....the tails are up. It only takes one to cause the rest to become demons and they will run.
The only hope they had of getting them in a crush or shed would have been the farmer giving them meal every day and they would follow him if he had a bucket in his hand. I suspect they were not getting any meal and he would not have been around them to much.
Someone said they were in 30+ acres with no fencing. You'd need to cover some ground to gather them all up if they've been left to roam for a while.
There still could have been a better solution to this.
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 03:25:06 PMThe main agenda is just get rid of Muir because "hes agin farmers and doesnt know farming".
Also was in Friends of the Earth so you can imagine how paranoid it would make them. Bill Gates also involved with the WEF who control Dooher using Elon Musks satellites.
Do any ministers know anything about their portfolio?
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/more/northern-ireland/daera-minister-cuts-ties-with-green-group-804185
Was this happening while he was still playing for Tyrone?
Maybe we should strike off a few of their All Ireland wins.
Depends on the cattle.
No one is mentioning the feckin farmer who was found guilty of numerous animal neglect issues.
He's the cúnt in all this.
BUT that was a serious mess made by the local vets and whoever else from DAERA who allowed the cull in such a manner.
"The days of the UFU dictating policy are over"
Muir today. Wont resign, calls for them to apologise naming individuals like Dooher.
Hahaha. Brilliant. More gurning incoming.
Details of the rat who got the court order. No such outrage from farmers.
https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/26175632.fivemiletown-farmer-banned-life-keeping-animals/
"During those inspections, officials found conditions on the farm to be extremely poor. The land was described as severely poached, animal housing was poorly maintained and bedding was dirty. Inspectors also found animals had insufficient access to feed and water, while some of the limited feed available had been contaminated with urine and dung.
A large number of animals were found to be suffering unnecessarily, with 29 animals ultimately euthanised to prevent further suffering.
Inspectors also discovered approximately 33 animal carcasses and a quantity of animal bones on the farm"
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 04:00:03 PM"During those inspections, officials found conditions on the farm to be extremely poor. The land was described as severely poached, animal housing was poorly maintained and bedding was dirty. Inspectors also found animals had insufficient access to feed and water, while some of the limited feed available had been contaminated with urine and dung.
A large number of animals were found to be suffering unnecessarily, with 29 animals ultimately euthanised to prevent further suffering.
Inspectors also discovered approximately 33 animal carcasses and a quantity of animal bones on the farm"
If this is all true and the animals were culled to end their suffering, what is the outrage about here?
Disclaimer - I know nothing about this except this thread and a brief report on RTE which basically outlines the same.
You cant allow animals into food chain that werent given right medicine, or generally cant be certain theyre right etc
Read this. Its scandalous the fker isnt behind bars.
https://wearetyrone.com/news/ill-never-forget-the-smell-of-dead-cattle/
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2026, 03:44:18 PMBUT that was a serious mess made by the local vets and whoever else from DAERA who allowed the cull in such a manner.
I believe our chief vet was out of the country on holiday at the time of the incident.
Not saying it's the case here but have seen first hand perfectly healthy animals being euthanised by these so called experts who said they were suffering.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 04:26:05 PMNot saying it's the case here but have seen first hand perfectly healthy animals being euthanised by these so called experts who said they were suffering.
"So-called experts"?
What was the context?
"So called experts" such as...vets?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 04:26:05 PMNot saying it's the case here but have seen first hand perfectly healthy animals being euthanised by these so called experts who said they were suffering.
Why?
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 03:49:35 PM"The days of the UFU dictating policy are over"
Muir today. Wont resign, calls for them to apologise naming individuals like Dooher.
Hahaha. Brilliant. More gurning incoming.
Details of the rat who got the court order. No such outrage from farmers.
https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/26175632.fivemiletown-farmer-banned-life-keeping-animals/
https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/25683457.farmer-sentenced-causing-suffering-livestock/
There was nothing wrong with these animals, and no reason for them been shot, A no. Of people should get the road for it. I seen farmers on a quad round up 25 beef cattle in 5 mins, so i aint buying they couldnt handle the animals.Anybody around farms would tell you this is wrong. The vet who signed off the shooting needs to go,as does the person, ducking and diving round the office who wouldnt sign off the paperwork. Plus the person instructing the snipers to shoot from the road,and finally Muir needs to go too.
Sounds like a measured response.
There horses down the road from where i live, in appaling condition over the winter, in a bogged field, spend a fortune on carrots. Thought multi times of reporting the farmer, who keeps the good ground for the cows. All fine in the summer, but i be worried they just be culled or took away for meat if u reported them.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 06:17:02 PMQuote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 03:49:35 PM"The days of the UFU dictating policy are over"
Muir today. Wont resign, calls for them to apologise naming individuals like Dooher.
Hahaha. Brilliant. More gurning incoming.
Details of the rat who got the court order. No such outrage from farmers.
https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/26175632.fivemiletown-farmer-banned-life-keeping-animals/
https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/25683457.farmer-sentenced-causing-suffering-livestock/
Forgot to say this guy is local and was in the front row of protesters at Stormont on Monday.
The farming community has been gunning for Muir for a long time given his desire to give DAERA's environmental responsibilities a higher priority.
The guy who should be in jail was protesting? Holy fk. Its entirely his fault. BBC report.
"The court issued a deprivation order on 8 June - that the farmer must have the animals removed from his ownership.
As is practice, he was given two weeks to appeal the sentence, or to transfer, sell or give away his stock.
He was then given an extra week.
On 29 June, when the extended grace period had lapsed, the departmental humane slaughter team arrived at the farm to begin destruction of the remaining 51 animals by shooting them.
The operation was completed on 30 June"
Hope Muir goes full Stalin
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 14, 2026, 06:39:52 PMThere was nothing wrong with these animals, and no reason for them been shot, A no. Of people should get the road for it. I seen farmers on a quad round up 25 beef cattle in 5 mins, so i aint buying they couldnt handle the animals.Anybody around farms would tell you this is wrong. The vet who signed off the shooting needs to go,as does the person, ducking and diving round the office who wouldnt sign off the paperwork. Plus the person instructing the snipers to shoot from the road,and finally Muir needs to go too.
I watched the recording on YouTube of the vets being questioned by the agriculture committee. 50% of these animals were unfit for human consumption.Did you watch any of it?
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 06:54:05 PMThe guy who should be in jail was protesting? Holy fk. Its entirely his fault. BBC report.
"The court issued a deprivation order on 8 June - that the farmer must have the animals removed from his ownership.
As is practice, he was given two weeks to appeal the sentence, or to transfer, sell or give away his stock.
He was then given an extra week.
On 29 June, when the extended grace period had lapsed, the departmental humane slaughter team arrived at the farm to begin destruction of the remaining 51 animals by shooting them.
The operation was completed on 30 June"
Hope Muir goes full Stalin
He's a different guy who was recently prosecuted.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 14, 2026, 06:45:43 PMThere horses down the road from where i live, in appaling condition over the winter, in a bogged field, spend a fortune on carrots. Thought multi times of reporting the farner, who keeps the good ground for the cows. All fine in the summer, but i be worried they just be culled or took away for meat if u reported them.
If they're getting that badly treated then probably better off going to the factory.
Quote from: Hereiam on August 14, 2026, 02:22:58 PMThe big mistake was made was that the police were not there from the start to close the road while this was going on. When darea talk about lessons learnt this is what they are on about.
It wasn't an ideal way of dealing with this but the department were never going to rock up and walk these cattle into a shed or lorry any farmer knows this.
The fact the ole cnut went out and got more cattle after his previous conviction for animal cruelty should be more talked about and I know of a farmer local to me who was also convicted now has a shed full of cattle, there should be unannounced inspections being carried out on anyone convicted to make sure this doesn't happen.
As said, when you see the who was at the protest it just says it all. SF/SDLP were never getting up on that low loader to speak under that stupid Carson statue with the type of crowd there.
I have to admit Muir is not the face for agriculture but at the end of the day he is only the puppet that is there for the photo opportunities and structured words.
To be honest whilst the Unionists are throwing the boot into Muir, there's no-one in SF/SDLP who would speak up for him. He's been a poor Agriculture Minister with next to no knowledge of the the industry. It really shouldn't be that big an ask for the Minister for Rural affairs to be from a rural background.
DAERA did f**k up though. Given all the lay staff they have it really shouldn't have been an issue to round up the livestock and slaughter them out of sight of the public. Getting a marksman to pick them off in a field was the lazy solution and they are paying the price for it now.
The social media crowd are out in force too. God I miss the days when you only had to listen to the opinion of a uninformed gobshite if he cornered you in a pub or met you on the street. Now we have the privilege of the ravings being delivered straight to the newsfeed.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 04:26:05 PMNot saying it's the case here but have seen first hand perfectly healthy animals being euthanised by these so called experts who said they were suffering.
Maybe these 'so called experts' are experts in their field?
UFU out for Dooher
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/general/northern-ireland-farmers-union-calls-for-resignations-including-former-gaa-legend-in-wake-of-controversial-cattle-cull/ar-AA2a6f8b
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 06:54:05 PMThe guy who should be in jail was protesting? Holy fk. Its entirely his fault. BBC report.
"The court issued a deprivation order on 8 June - that the farmer must have the animals removed from his ownership.
As is practice, he was given two weeks to appeal the sentence, or to transfer, sell or give away his stock.
He was then given an extra week.
On 29 June, when the extended grace period had lapsed, the departmental humane slaughter team arrived at the farm to begin destruction of the remaining 51 animals by shooting them.
The operation was completed on 30 June"
Hope Muir goes full Stalin
If he was given the choice of transferring, selling or giving away his stock , why did the authorities arrive to destroy the animals? Why didnt they arrange to have them sold or given away ( as per his options)?
Didn't realise that was their job.
Quote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 07:15:01 PMDAERA did f**k up though. Given all the lay staff they have it really shouldn't have been an issue to round up the livestock and slaughter them out of sight of the public. Getting a marksman to pick them off in a field was the lazy solution and they are paying the price for it now.
That is the only big mistake made here really...
and whoever did signed off on it probably does need to be shown the door - or demoted out of decision making as they've proven themselves too stupid to be in charge of anything more than running a tap.
If they have no appreciation of what the optics of shooting 50 cattle in open public would look like, they really aren't competent enough for their responsibilities.
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 14, 2026, 08:00:05 PMQuote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 06:54:05 PMThe guy who should be in jail was protesting? Holy fk. Its entirely his fault. BBC report.
"The court issued a deprivation order on 8 June - that the farmer must have the animals removed from his ownership.
As is practice, he was given two weeks to appeal the sentence, or to transfer, sell or give away his stock.
He was then given an extra week.
On 29 June, when the extended grace period had lapsed, the departmental humane slaughter team arrived at the farm to begin destruction of the remaining 51 animals by shooting them.
The operation was completed on 30 June"
Hope Muir goes full Stalin
If he was given the choice of transferring, selling or giving away his stock , why did the authorities arrive to destroy the animals? Why didnt they arrange to have them sold or given away ( as per his options)?
He was given the choice why didn't HE make the arrangements?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:09:20 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 07:15:01 PMDAERA did f**k up though. Given all the lay staff they have it really shouldn't have been an issue to round up the livestock and slaughter them out of sight of the public. Getting a marksman to pick them off in a field was the lazy solution and they are paying the price for it now.
That is the only big mistake made here really...
and whoever did signed off on it probably does need to be shown the door - or demoted out of decision making as they've proven themselves too stupid to be in charge of anything more than running a tap.
If they have no appreciation of what the optics of shooting 50 cattle in open public would look like, they really aren't competent enough for their responsibilities.
There was a risk assessment made and it was decided it wasn't safe to round up these cattle and that the most humane way to cull the cattle was in their own environment. The vets followed expert advice. Watch the video on YouTube of the agriculture Committee questioning the vets involved and this is all explained.
Quote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 07:15:01 PMTo be honest whilst the Unionists are throwing the boot into Muir, there's no-one in SF/SDLP who would speak up for him. He's been a poor Agriculture Minister with next to no knowledge of the the industry. It really shouldn't be that big an ask for the Minister for Rural affairs to be from a rural background.
Like who currently elected to Stormont? Edwin Poots?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:10:13 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on August 14, 2026, 08:00:05 PMQuote from: DaleCooper on August 14, 2026, 06:54:05 PMThe guy who should be in jail was protesting? Holy fk. Its entirely his fault. BBC report.
"The court issued a deprivation order on 8 June - that the farmer must have the animals removed from his ownership.
As is practice, he was given two weeks to appeal the sentence, or to transfer, sell or give away his stock.
He was then given an extra week.
On 29 June, when the extended grace period had lapsed, the departmental humane slaughter team arrived at the farm to begin destruction of the remaining 51 animals by shooting them.
The operation was completed on 30 June"
Hope Muir goes full Stalin
If he was given the choice of transferring, selling or giving away his stock , why did the authorities arrive to destroy the animals? Why didnt they arrange to have them sold or given away ( as per his options)?
He was given the choice why didn't HE make the arrangements?
Well yes, that too. Anything but slaughter the poor animals
Do the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
Quote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
Why ask sensible questions like that when you could just scream and shout about what they should do?!
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:15:30 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:09:20 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 07:15:01 PMDAERA did f**k up though. Given all the lay staff they have it really shouldn't have been an issue to round up the livestock and slaughter them out of sight of the public. Getting a marksman to pick them off in a field was the lazy solution and they are paying the price for it now.
That is the only big mistake made here really...
and whoever did signed off on it probably does need to be shown the door - or demoted out of decision making as they've proven themselves too stupid to be in charge of anything more than running a tap.
If they have no appreciation of what the optics of shooting 50 cattle in open public would look like, they really aren't competent enough for their responsibilities.
There was a risk assessment made and it was decided it wasn't safe to round up these cattle and that the most humane way to cull the cattle was in their own environment. The vets followed expert advice. Watch the video on YouTube of the agriculture Committee questioning the vets involved and this is all explained.
Then whoever did the risk assessment was some useless clown at a desk that didn't have a clue what they were doing and should be relieved of role.
If the admin team in a department that owns approx 20,000 acres of agricultural ground and has hundreds if not thousands of cattle in their herds cannot find a few folk to round up 50 animals then there is some serious information silos and disconnects.
The optics of shooting 50 cattle was clearly and obviously never going to be palatable. Who compiled the risk assessment?
Watching the youtube now. Seen nothing substantial so far that isn't just buzzword bullshit.
Quote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
When DAERA have to cull a herd that has TB what do you think happens?
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 14, 2026, 08:28:43 PMWell yes, that too. Anything but slaughter the poor animals
Its not slaughtering the animals. That was likely to happen anyway.
Its how and where it was done.
Slaughtering is typically done in such a way (end of a chute with blocked gates) that no other animals witness it to minimise stress on the other animals.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:49:30 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:15:30 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:09:20 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 07:15:01 PMDAERA did f**k up though. Given all the lay staff they have it really shouldn't have been an issue to round up the livestock and slaughter them out of sight of the public. Getting a marksman to pick them off in a field was the lazy solution and they are paying the price for it now.
That is the only big mistake made here really...
and whoever did signed off on it probably does need to be shown the door - or demoted out of decision making as they've proven themselves too stupid to be in charge of anything more than running a tap.
If they have no appreciation of what the optics of shooting 50 cattle in open public would look like, they really aren't competent enough for their responsibilities.
There was a risk assessment made and it was decided it wasn't safe to round up these cattle and that the most humane way to cull the cattle was in their own environment. The vets followed expert advice. Watch the video on YouTube of the agriculture Committee questioning the vets involved and this is all explained.
Then whoever did the risk assessment was some useless clown at a desk that didn't have a clue what they were doing and should be relieved of role.
If the admin team in a department that owns approx 20,000 acres of agricultural ground and has hundreds if not thousands of cattle in their herds cannot find a few folk to round up 50 animals then there is some serious information silos and disconnects.
The optics of shooting 50 cattle was clearly and obviously never going to be palatable. Who compiled the risk assessment?
Watching the youtube now. Seen nothing substantial so far that isn't just buzzword bullshit.
And if deemed unsafe for staff and cattle to round up the cattle just do it anyway?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:54:20 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on August 14, 2026, 08:28:43 PMWell yes, that too. Anything but slaughter the poor animals
Its not slaughtering the animals. That was likely to happen anyway.
Its how and where it was done.
Slaughtering is typically done in such a way (end of a chute with blocked gates) that no other animals witness it to minimise stress on the other animals.
Rounding cattle up and putting them on a lorry causes distress to these animals.There was no fencing on the farm and on bad terrain.If you are watching the video the farmer requested the opportunity to round up 4 of the cattle during the cull. Along with the protesters they couldn't manage it.
Interesting thread. The farmer who initially mistreated the animals seems to have escaped the rath of the adorable Carla Loveheart. Did the cull happen in her jurisdiction?
In the
, 21 mins in.
Another farmer approached to buy the animals.
Immediately it stopped and they tried to load them onto a lorry. Obviously at that point the animals were running mad due to the other dead members of the herd around them.
To say that proved it wouldn't have worked is completely disingenuous. At that point it was always doomed to failure.
Whereas, rocking up with an appropriate number of people and plenty of handling gates then it could have been managed.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTeV2646JosvEF-MYHsQ8UQ_ehBoGvXFxec6z4sgwotrbjpMCtSI-MWPI&s=10)
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:54:32 PMAnd if deemed unsafe for staff and cattle to round up the cattle just do it anyway?
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
The right equipment and sufficient people by and by large eliminates almost any risk.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:58:56 PMRounding cattle up and putting them on a lorry causes distress to these animals.There was no fencing on the farm and on bad terrain.If you are watching the video the farmer requested the opportunity to round up 4 of the cattle during the cull. Along with the protesters they couldn't manage it.
During the cull.
FFS get a grip.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:54:20 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on August 14, 2026, 08:28:43 PMWell yes, that too. Anything but slaughter the poor animals
Its not slaughtering the animals. That was likely to happen anyway.
Its how and where it was done.
Slaughtering is typically done in such a way (end of a chute with blocked gates) that no other animals witness it to minimise stress on the other animals.
I don't know. I am asking. I get that the cull was poorly carried out - but is there a mechanism to just take these animals and plonk them elsewhere? I doubt it - but was curious.
Quote from: Orior on August 14, 2026, 09:00:58 PMInteresting thread. The farmer who initially mistreated the animals seems to have escaped the rath of the adorable Carla Loveheart. Did the cull happen in her jurisdiction?
He should be in jail.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:03:35 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:54:32 PMAnd if deemed unsafe for staff and cattle to round up the cattle just do it anyway?
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
The right equipment and sufficient people by and by large eliminates almost any risk.
And if no equipment what?
Quote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 09:05:08 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:54:20 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on August 14, 2026, 08:28:43 PMWell yes, that too. Anything but slaughter the poor animals
Its not slaughtering the animals. That was likely to happen anyway.
Its how and where it was done.
Slaughtering is typically done in such a way (end of a chute with blocked gates) that no other animals witness it to minimise stress on the other animals.
I don't know. I am asking. I get that the cull was poorly carried out - but is there a mechanism to just take these animals and plonk them elsewhere? I doubt it - but was curious.
Yes there is. That's exactly what happens in a TB cull. DAERA take them away.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:04:59 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:58:56 PMRounding cattle up and putting them on a lorry causes distress to these animals.There was no fencing on the farm and on bad terrain.If you are watching the video the farmer requested the opportunity to round up 4 of the cattle during the cull. Along with the protesters they couldn't manage it.
During the cull.
FFS get a grip.
Sorry was it not a cull?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:06:36 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:03:35 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:54:32 PMAnd if deemed unsafe for staff and cattle to round up the cattle just do it anyway?
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
The right equipment and sufficient people by and by large eliminates almost any risk.
And if no equipment what?
Once again for the slow learners...
DAERA own ~22,000 acres of agricultural land.
DAERA have at many hundred cattle, possibly thousands.
They are probably by a distance, the single biggest owner of farm equipment in the north.
Do you have any idea of what your talking about?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:07:59 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:04:59 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:58:56 PMRounding cattle up and putting them on a lorry causes distress to these animals.There was no fencing on the farm and on bad terrain.If you are watching the video the farmer requested the opportunity to round up 4 of the cattle during the cull. Along with the protesters they couldn't manage it.
During the cull.
FFS get a grip.
Sorry was it not a cull?
What state of mind do you think a cow would be in if its calf had been shot? Or a calf would be in if its cow had been shot?
Do you think they'd be nice and settled and cooperative to getting capped onto a lorry?
The fact that the DAERA officials were prepared to even attempt to load them at that point showed the previous "risk assessment" for the bullshit it was. They were willing to undertake a far, far, far more risky proposition than what would have been the case if they'd arrived equipped to do that to start with.
Quote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
Farmer had chance to sell and didnt. Now he has a total loss...arguably better sentence than jail.
His farm was a literal shitshow so unlikely had facilities to deal with calmly rounding them up.
There is only one man to blame for the mess. Mr Beattie.
The unusual nature of it and sheer numbers explains a lot of the decisions, that in hindsight look ridiculous.
The review being carried out by Martin Blake will be interesting.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:10:47 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:07:59 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:04:59 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:58:56 PMRounding cattle up and putting them on a lorry causes distress to these animals.There was no fencing on the farm and on bad terrain.If you are watching the video the farmer requested the opportunity to round up 4 of the cattle during the cull. Along with the protesters they couldn't manage it.
During the cull.
FFS get a grip.
Sorry was it not a cull?
What state of mind do you think a cow would be in if its calf had been shot? Or a calf would be in if its cow had been shot?
Do you think they'd be nice and settled and cooperative to getting capped onto a lorry?
The fact that the DAERA officials were prepared to even attempt to load them at that point showed the previous "risk assessment" for the bullshit it was. They were willing to undertake a far, far, far more risky proposition than what would have been the case if they'd arrived equipped to do that to start with.
The vet didn't say Daera officials tried to load them up. The gave the farmer permission to attempt to round up these cattle at his own risk. Do you seriously think these vets just put themselves through all their studies and training to just be able to cull animals? There was a risk assessment made and I don't know what all the evidence that was used to complete this assessment and neither do you.Calls like these should be made by the vets which it was.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:10:47 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:07:59 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:04:59 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:58:56 PMRounding cattle up and putting them on a lorry causes distress to these animals.There was no fencing on the farm and on bad terrain.If you are watching the video the farmer requested the opportunity to round up 4 of the cattle during the cull. Along with the protesters they couldn't manage it.
During the cull.
FFS get a grip.
Sorry was it not a cull?
What state of mind do you think a cow would be in if its calf had been shot? Or a calf would be in if its cow had been shot?
Do you think they'd be nice and settled and cooperative to getting capped onto a lorry?
The fact that the DAERA officials were prepared to even attempt to load them at that point showed the previous "risk assessment" for the bullshit it was. They were willing to undertake a far, far, far more risky proposition than what would have been the case if they'd arrived equipped to do that to start with.
If they're going buck mad in my experience with animals you're as well call it a day, let them settle and come back the next day.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
Are you out of your f**king mind?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
And who is going to buy animals that cant go into the food chain? I couldn't see a market even attempt to sell them.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
This is kind of my point. That sounds grand and rational and all that and sounds like a better option
A reality is we have created, and live in, a world full of bullshit, red tape, beauacracy etc. That have taken us to a place where common sense solutions are often not available in the reality of all the above nonsense.
I think it's also a bit naive of us to think that it was done on a whim and they didn't exhaust scenarios for the situation.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:23:47 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
And who is going to buy animals that cant go into the food chain? I couldn't see a market even attempt to sell them.
Why was that?
If not suitable for humans there needs to be a proper and humane way for animals to be gotten rid of be it cattle/horses/sheep whatever, surely a demand for dog/cat food.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:06:02 PMQuote from: Orior on August 14, 2026, 09:00:58 PMInteresting thread. The farmer who initially mistreated the animals seems to have escaped the rath of the adorable Carla Loveheart. Did the cull happen in her jurisdiction?
He should be in jail.
All rationale goes out the window, when there's an election around the corner and votes from Protestant farmers to be won.
She's already won a few from the genocide-supporting bigots in Scarva and the Portadown Orangemen.
1h 17m into the hearing.
15 cattle were confined inside a shed that were already sold so they weren't included in the slaughter.
So there was facilities, possibly limited, but facilities nonetheless for containing at least some of the herd.
Shed >> Chute >> Lorry.
The "risk assessment" excuse is already flimsy as f**k.
Not hearing any good reason why the herd couldn't have been loaded up and removed.
Not saying it would have been easy. I know full well how awkward it can be - but with plenty of bodies and loads of gates it would not have been anything like impossible.
Quote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 09:25:10 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
This is kind of my point. That sounds grand and rational and all that and sounds like a better option
A reality is we have created, and live in, a world full of bullshit, red tape, beauacracy etc. That have taken us to a place where common sense solutions are often not available in the reality of all the above nonsense.
I think it's also a bit naive of us to think that it was done on a whim and they didn't exhaust scenarios for the situation.
Cuckoo if you get a chance watch the video on YouTube previously posted.The vets have stated that this has been a process that has lasted 4/5 years. You can clearly see they have been deeply affected by this as they are quite emotional. Decisions to carry out these actions in my opinion should be made by trained vets which they were.
Quote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 09:25:10 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
This is kind of my point. That sounds grand and rational and all that and sounds like a better option
A reality is we have created, and live in, a world full of bullshit, red tape, beauacracy etc. That have taken us to a place where common sense solutions are often not available in the reality of all the above nonsense.
I think it's also a bit naive of us to think that it was done on a whim and they didn't exhaust scenarios for the situation.
Cuckoo if you get a chance watch the video on YouTube previously posted.The vets have stated that this has been a process that has lasted 4/5 years. You can clearly see they have been deeply affected by this as they are quite emotional. Decisions to carry out these actions in my opinion should be made by trained vets which they were.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:36:57 PM1h 17m into the hearing.
15 cattle were confined inside a shed that were already sold so they weren't included in the slaughter.
So there was facilities, possibly limited, but facilities nonetheless for containing at least some of the herd.
Shed >> Chute >> Lorry.
The "risk assessment" excuse is already flimsy as f**k.
Not hearing any good reason why the herd couldn't have been loaded up and removed.
Not saying it would have been easy. I know full well how awkward it can be - but with plenty of bodies and loads of gates it would not have been anything like impossible.
And 1 broke out because the facilities were poor.Can you accept at least that vets are best suited to make these calls?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:22:00 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:10:47 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:07:59 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:04:59 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:58:56 PMRounding cattle up and putting them on a lorry causes distress to these animals.There was no fencing on the farm and on bad terrain.If you are watching the video the farmer requested the opportunity to round up 4 of the cattle during the cull. Along with the protesters they couldn't manage it.
During the cull.
FFS get a grip.
Sorry was it not a cull?
What state of mind do you think a cow would be in if its calf had been shot? Or a calf would be in if its cow had been shot?
Do you think they'd be nice and settled and cooperative to getting capped onto a lorry?
The fact that the DAERA officials were prepared to even attempt to load them at that point showed the previous "risk assessment" for the bullshit it was. They were willing to undertake a far, far, far more risky proposition than what would have been the case if they'd arrived equipped to do that to start with.
If they're going buck mad in my experience with animals you're as well call it a day, let them settle and come back the next day.
.
Exactly.
So to say that 'cos they couldn't be loaded at that point that it would never have worked is utter bullshit.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:37:05 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 09:25:10 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
This is kind of my point. That sounds grand and rational and all that and sounds like a better option
A reality is we have created, and live in, a world full of bullshit, red tape, beauacracy etc. That have taken us to a place where common sense solutions are often not available in the reality of all the above nonsense.
I think it's also a bit naive of us to think that it was done on a whim and they didn't exhaust scenarios for the situation.
Cuckoo if you get a chance watch the video on YouTube previously posted.The vets have stated that this has been a process that has lasted 4/5 years. You can clearly see they have been deeply affected by this as they are quite emotional. Decisions to carry out these actions in my opinion should be made by trained vets which they were.
Meant Puckoon typing error sorry.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:30:12 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:23:47 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
And who is going to buy animals that cant go into the food chain? I couldn't see a market even attempt to sell them.
Why was that?
If not suitable for humans there needs to be a proper and humane way for animals to be gotten rid of be it cattle/horses/sheep whatever, surely a demand for dog/cat food.
Armagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:40:24 PMAnd 1 broke out because the facilities were poor.Can you accept at least that vets are best suited to make these calls?
In my experience, no not always.
Some are great.
Some others are just punching their time till they can get to small-animals, and some others are just dreaming of horses.
... and many of them wouldn't be too keen on spending a day rounding up stock over rough ground! (To be fair, I wouldn't be keen on it myself and have walked that road many's a time!)
It also needs to be made clear - DAERA is more than just vets - they have a lot more facilities and equipment available to them than most vets will ever see and use. That I think has been (badly) missed in the decision making.
The right person at the top could have sent 50 fellas down the road with a few hundred gates from greenmount with several big tractors and trailers to load them up.
Yes, not ordinary approach, and crossed divisions within DAERA, but this clearly wasn't ordinary circumstances
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:48:34 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:40:24 PMAnd 1 broke out because the facilities were poor.Can you accept at least that vets are best suited to make these calls?
In my experience, no not always.
Some are great.
Some others are just punching their time till they can get to small-animals, and some others are just dreaming of horses.
... and many of them wouldn't be too keen on spending a day rounding up stock over rough ground! (To be fair, I wouldn't be keen on it myself and have walked that road many's a time!)
It also needs to be made clear - DAERA is more than just vets - they have a lot more facilities and equipment available to them than most vets will ever see and use. That I think has been (badly) missed in the decision making.
The right person at the top could have sent 50 fellas down the road with a few hundred gates from greenmount with several big tractors and trailers to load them up.
Yes, not ordinary approach, and crossed divisions within DAERA, but this clearly wasn't ordinary circumstances
But we both don't know the caliber of these vets. Tell me watching the 2 vets questioned by the committee do you think they are sadistic in anyway? These people have been threatened for carrying out their job and have been shown absolutely no respect.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:53:53 PMBut we both don't know the caliber of these vets. Tell me watching the 2 vets questioned by the committee do you think they are sadistic in anyway? These people have been threatened for carrying out their job and have been shown absolutely no respect.
What 2 vets?
This hearing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs4t--M6EXQ&list=PL5lnNfzfEzh5UeUGNYOuL26w6Zmt7dSiz&index=2
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:57:11 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:53:53 PMBut we both don't know the caliber of these vets. Tell me watching the 2 vets questioned by the committee do you think they are sadistic in anyway? These people have been threatened for carrying out their job and have been shown absolutely no respect.
What 2 vets?
This hearing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs4t--M6EXQ&list=PL5lnNfzfEzh5UeUGNYOuL26w6Zmt7dSiz&index=2
Yes.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:30:12 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:23:47 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
And who is going to buy animals that cant go into the food chain? I couldn't see a market even attempt to sell them.
Why was that?
If not suitable for humans there needs to be a proper and humane way for animals to be gotten rid of be it cattle/horses/sheep whatever, surely a demand for dog/cat food.
Armagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
There is a post earlier showing mobile handling facilities. Many farmers and deara would have these. Deara often have grants for farmers purchasing them. The excuse of no other option to round up the cattle is wrong. Deara is not just vets, they have many staff, a lot would be part time farmers as well and would be on farmers daily doing blood tests and the likes. They had the man power to handle this differently.
It is not a black and white issue, the farmer has not done all correctly, likewise Deara. If my memory is correct one of head vets had to resign a few years ago due a failed court case costing the public over one million, or something along those lines. I know of other vets taking a farmer to court and case being thrown out due to the absurdity of it. There is bias here by many, keep that in mind especially as some of this is an opportunity for some political parties and those with a interest will look out for their own.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
And your not a vet so makes your opinion baseless.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
And in your experience if there is bad terrain is it possible that these cattle could get seriously injured in an attempt to round them up?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:06:06 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
And your not a vet so makes your opinion baseless.
?? You certainly don't need to be a vet to know about rounding up cattle?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:00:28 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:57:11 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:53:53 PMBut we both don't know the caliber of these vets. Tell me watching the 2 vets questioned by the committee do you think they are sadistic in anyway? These people have been threatened for carrying out their job and have been shown absolutely no respect.
What 2 vets?
This hearing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs4t--M6EXQ&list=PL5lnNfzfEzh5UeUGNYOuL26w6Zmt7dSiz&index=2
Yes.
Its nothing to do with sadistic.
To be honest, its far more masochistic to have to try to round up the stock!
Do you think either of them look like they'd fancy trekking around for half a day?
To be clear - they, or no one else, should be threatened. The one who should be threatened is the farmer who ignored repeated warnings over many years of maltreatment of animals.
Those two just shouldn't be making decisions of this magnitude any longer. I've very little respect for their decision making abilities given what appears to have happened.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:40:24 PMAnd 1 broke out because the facilities were poor.Can you accept at least that vets are best suited to make these calls?
One broke out because the door worked loose.
Easy (temporary) fix - tie it as well as bolt it.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 14, 2026, 06:52:49 PMThe farming community has been gunning for Muir for a long time given his desire to give DAERA's environmental responsibilities a higher priority.
It's really 2 departments merged....and they are the complete opposite of each other.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:09:46 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
And in your experience if there is bad terrain is it possible that these cattle could get seriously injured in an attempt to round them up?
If you are stupid and rush them, yes - I'll not pretend its not possible.
But if you take your time and give them breathing space, with the manpower that could have been made available, they no doubt could have been shepherded to better ground and penned without incident.
Again - DAERA is probably the biggest landowner in the north. They have hundreds of students at greenmount alone. They are undoubtedly the best equipped agricultural group in the north. They have everything they needed to get this done except someone with the gumption to shake a few trees.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:09:46 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
And in your experience if there is bad terrain is it possible that these cattle could get seriously injured in an attempt to round them up?
Of course it's possible. But lets not pretend cattle aren't regularly gathered up on bad ground throughout the country and worldwide with little enough fuss.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:12:18 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:00:28 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:57:11 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:53:53 PMBut we both don't know the caliber of these vets. Tell me watching the 2 vets questioned by the committee do you think they are sadistic in anyway? These people have been threatened for carrying out their job and have been shown absolutely no respect.
What 2 vets?
This hearing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs4t--M6EXQ&list=PL5lnNfzfEzh5UeUGNYOuL26w6Zmt7dSiz&index=2
Yes.
Its nothing to do with sadistic.
To be honest, its far more masochistic to have to try to round up the stock!
Do you think either of them look like they'd fancy trekking around for half a day?
To be clear - they, or no one else, should be threatened. The one who should be threatened is the farmer who ignored repeated warnings over many years of maltreatment of animals.
Those two just shouldn't be making decisions of this magnitude any longer. I've very little respect for their decision making abilities given what appears to have happened.
Why not it's their job? We both don't have all the facts so they should not be judged. They are the ones with the experience of dealing with these cases. As they have stated in the video these actions have been carried out in the past.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:20:18 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:09:46 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
And in your experience if there is bad terrain is it possible that these cattle could get seriously injured in an attempt to round them up?
Of course it's possible. But lets not pretend cattle aren't regularly gathered up on bad ground throughout the country and worldwide with little enough fuss.
If you believe it's possible could the vets also have believed it's possible as part of their risk assessment. They also have to consider the safety of Daera staff in all of this. Is that not what a risk assessment is all about?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:24:22 PMWhy not it's their job? We both don't have all the facts so they should not be judged. They are the ones with the experience of dealing with these cases. As they have stated in the video these actions have been carried out in the past.
How many open field culls have either of those two directed?
A load of things don't stack up.
"The farmer wouldn't get rid of any animals so we had to act immediately."
- He was in the vet office in the process of transferring animals off the herd book.... and had already sold a small number a week or two beforehand.
"All about animal welfare"
- So the herd is shot in sight of each other?
"Performed by highly trained personnel"
- Do DAERA have a division of snipers hiding somewhere? They could put their hands on people who could cleanly pick off running cattle from 50 yards away with shots that killed them instantly and without distress but couldn't find anyone* trained in the rather less exacting ability of capping cows to round them up? *despite greenmount, ran by DAERA, having approx 1900 students working in agriculture in it.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:15:30 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:09:20 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 07:15:01 PMDAERA did f**k up though. Given all the lay staff they have it really shouldn't have been an issue to round up the livestock and slaughter them out of sight of the public. Getting a marksman to pick them off in a field was the lazy solution and they are paying the price for it now.
That is the only big mistake made here really...
and whoever did signed off on it probably does need to be shown the door - or demoted out of decision making as they've proven themselves too stupid to be in charge of anything more than running a tap.
If they have no appreciation of what the optics of shooting 50 cattle in open public would look like, they really aren't competent enough for their responsibilities.
There was a risk assessment made and it was decided it wasn't safe to round up these cattle and that the most humane way to cull the cattle was in their own environment. The vets followed expert advice. Watch the video on YouTube of the agriculture Committee questioning the vets involved and this is all explained.
Risk assessment my hole? All 51 cattle were too wild to handle or gather up? A bullshit excuse for the easy option of shooting them in the field. As I said it was harder to make an attempt to gather up the cattle than the easy option of shooting them and gathering them with a telehandler the following day. Even the arrangement of killing all 51 and then lifting them lying in the open for a day speaks to their general incompetence.
Portable animal handling facilities do exist and are readily available for purchase. Any moron with 15 - 20 galvanised field gates and 40 foot of rope could rig up an area to hold and load livestock.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:18:10 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:09:46 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:03:55 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:55:45 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 09:50:45 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 09:46:14 PMArmagh18 the vets in the video and they quote expert studies that this was the most humane way to carry this out. If you get a chance take a look at the video.
You didn't answer before (https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?msg=2422290), so I'll ask again.
Are you in any way involved with cattle at all?
No does that mean I'm not allowed an opinion? Are you a vet at all?
It does mean your opinion is rather baseless.
You've no idea of the difference good handling systems make, or what even is possible by clamping up a few gates.
I'm not a vet, but involved with farming. Some of it on pretty shit ground so the circumstances here aren't unknown to me for rounding up cattle or sheep.
I do know this - if you gave me access to all the equipment and manpower DAERA has - I'd easily have organised the rounding up of these animals and removal from the 3 sites.
Its Fivemiletown. Its not f**king Tibet or the Amazon.
And in your experience if there is bad terrain is it possible that these cattle could get seriously injured in an attempt to round them up?
If you are stupid and rush them, yes - I'll not pretend its not possible.
But if you take your time and give them breathing space, with the manpower that could have been made available, they no doubt could have been shepherded to better ground and penned without incident.
Again - DAERA is probably the biggest landowner in the north. They have hundreds of students at greenmount alone. They are undoubtedly the best equipped agricultural group in the north. They have everything they needed to get this done except someone with the gumption to shake a few trees.
Again sorry to go back to the video. The vets stated that these actions are carried out by a highly trained team. I'm not aware of the numbers in this team but I would seriously doubt that Daera would take untrained staff along to these operations.Do you accept that the vets in question made available reports compiled by experts that this was the was the most humane way to carry out this action.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:27:22 PMIf you believe it's possible could the vets also have believed it's possible as part of their risk assessment. They also have to consider the safety of Daera staff in all of this. Is that not what a risk assessment is all about?
If you know how a risk assessment works, then severity and probability
should both have scored low for it.
IMO the overriding concern here was "could we really be fucked going out and rounding this lot up?"
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:34:55 PMAgain sorry to go back to the video. The vets stated that these actions are carried out by a highly trained team. I'm not aware of the numbers in this team but I would seriously doubt that Daera would take untrained staff along to these operations.
Yes - as said in previous post - amazing that DAERA can find a rake of highly trained snipers to pick off running cattle.
But they cannot find anyone to cap some cows.
Dunno what the 1900 people in Greenmount are getting taught these days!
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:34:55 PMDo you accept that the vets in question made available reports compiled by experts that this was the was the most humane way to carry out this action.
Absolutely not.
They completely fucked up the risk assessment - or plainly could not be arsed going through the hassle of rounding up the livestock. Take your pick.
Quote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:34:22 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 08:15:30 PMQuote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 08:09:20 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 07:15:01 PMDAERA did f**k up though. Given all the lay staff they have it really shouldn't have been an issue to round up the livestock and slaughter them out of sight of the public. Getting a marksman to pick them off in a field was the lazy solution and they are paying the price for it now.
That is the only big mistake made here really...
and whoever did signed off on it probably does need to be shown the door - or demoted out of decision making as they've proven themselves too stupid to be in charge of anything more than running a tap.
If they have no appreciation of what the optics of shooting 50 cattle in open public would look like, they really aren't competent enough for their responsibilities.
There was a risk assessment made and it was decided it wasn't safe to round up these cattle and that the most humane way to cull the cattle was in their own environment. The vets followed expert advice. Watch the video on YouTube of the agriculture Committee questioning the vets involved and this is all explained.
Risk assessment my hole? All 51 cattle were too wild to handle or gather up? A bullshit excuse for the easy option of shooting them in the field. As I said it was harder to make an attempt to gather up the cattle than the easy option of shooting them and gathering them with a telehandler the following day. Even the arrangement of killing all 51 and then lifting them lying in the open for a day speaks to their general incompetence.
Portable animal handling facilities do exist and are readily available for purchase. Any moron with 15 - 20 galvanised field gates and 40 foot of rope could rig up an area to hold and load livestock.
Risk assessment are in place to protect all. The decision was made not to round up the cattle. A decision made by those that have the experience in making such decisions.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:38:10 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:34:55 PMAgain sorry to go back to the video. The vets stated that these actions are carried out by a highly trained team. I'm not aware of the numbers in this team but I would seriously doubt that Daera would take untrained staff along to these operations.
Yes - as said in previous post - amazing that DAERA can find a rake of highly trained snipers to pick off running cattle.
But they cannot find anyone to cap some cows.
Dunno what the 1900 people in Greenmount are getting taught these days!
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:34:55 PMDo you accept that the vets in question made available reports compiled by experts that this was the was the most humane way to carry out this action.
Absolutely not.
They completely fucked up the risk assessment - or plainly could not be arsed going through the hassle of rounding up the livestock. Take your pick.
Again without all the facts how can you be certain that they fucked up the risk assessment?
Reddgnhand are you of the opinion that civil servants in Derea can't make mistakes and should just believed in what they say?
Quote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 09:25:10 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 09:19:36 PMQuote from: Puckoon on August 14, 2026, 08:33:41 PMDo the authorities have holding facilities for animals in an event like this? What could the authorities actually have done operationally. Not just conceptually. How does that look? Where do they take them?
A mart?
Surely there were better options.
This is kind of my point. That sounds grand and rational and all that and sounds like a better option
A reality is we have created, and live in, a world full of bullshit, red tape, beauacracy etc. That have taken us to a place where common sense solutions are often not available in the reality of all the above nonsense.
I think it's also a bit naive of us to think that it was done on a whim and they didn't exhaust scenarios for the situation.
They'd loads of options. DAERA currently slaughter 1000's of cattle at a meat factory on the North Coast (as far as I know they still have the contract) where they are killed and the carcasses sent for destruction. Happens every week. There is no way that DAERA exhausted all the options. Some idiot just chose the easiest option for them and invented the "risk assessment" excuse to suit.
Just because they are vets doesn't mean they are immune to mistakes or malpractice. A qualified doctor can make a horlocks of a decision as I'm sure we are all aware. Shooting 4 or 5 animals too crazy to round up was explainable. Shooting 51 and leaving them scattered across hills like they were on a buffalo hunt is not defendable.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:33:10 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:24:22 PMWhy not it's their job? We both don't have all the facts so they should not be judged. They are the ones with the experience of dealing with these cases. As they have stated in the video these actions have been carried out in the past.
How many open field culls have either of those two directed?
A load of things don't stack up.
"The farmer wouldn't get rid of any animals so we had to act immediately."
- He was in the vet office in the process of transferring animals off the herd book.... and had already sold a small number a week or two beforehand.
"All about animal welfare"
- So the herd is shot in sight of each other?
"Performed by highly trained personnel"
- Do DAERA have a division of snipers hiding somewhere? They could put their hands on people who could cleanly pick off running cattle from 50 yards away with shots that killed them instantly and without distress but couldn't find anyone* trained in the rather less exacting ability of capping cows to round them up? *despite greenmount, ran by DAERA, having approx 1900 students working in agriculture in it.
I've no idea what marksmen they have do you?.Students from Greenmount seriously?
What would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 14, 2026, 10:35:48 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:27:22 PMIf you believe it's possible could the vets also have believed it's possible as part of their risk assessment. They also have to consider the safety of Daera staff in all of this. Is that not what a risk assessment is all about?
If you know how a risk assessment works, then severity and probability should both have scored low for it.
IMO the overriding concern here was "could we really be fucked going out and rounding this lot up?"
How do you know that? Were you ever out on the ground? What experience do you have of the case compared with qualified vets who have been dealing with this for the past 4 or 5 years.
I wonder how many bullets were used.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Quote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
I'm sure DAERA would have found some loophole that having completed their own "risk assessment" all responsibility was transferred to the "fully qualified personnel".
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
Quote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:50:33 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
I'm sure DAERA would have found some loophole that having completed their own "risk assessment" all responsibility was transferred to the "fully qualified personnel".
A loophole for stray bullets??? Who would you have expected to carry out the risk assessment?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Quote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:57:25 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Shooting running cattle from presumably a distance if they were that wild no one could get near them to round them up? Not saying it was likely but certainly a possibility.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 11:00:36 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:57:25 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Shooting running cattle from presumably a distance if they were that wild no one could get near them to round them up? Not saying it was likely but certainly a possibility.
The point about stray bullets is wouldn't that be in a risk assessment. That's dozens of shots fired - surely a major consideration?
I've no evidence of stray bullets by the way, but if several calves were injured, does that suggest every shot was pinpoint?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 11:00:36 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:57:25 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Shooting running cattle from presumably a distance if they were that wild no one could get near them to round them up? Not saying it was likely but certainly a possibility.
I agree with you with guns anything is possible but in this case I don't know if there were any reports of stray bullets.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:57:25 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Lad you're more interested in making inane rhetorical questions than actually debating the issue so I've no interest in engaging with you. If you can't see that DAERA really made a balls of this operation then fine but anyone with a cent of knowledge about working with livestock or farming knows that DAERA are talking shite. They'd plenty of better options than a Wild West shootout over the Fermanagh hills but they went with it because it was easy for the DAERA official's to fob the work off onto some hired guns. I don't think anyone but the world's greatest moron would accept the argument that what DAERA did here was the sensible course of action to pursue.
Here's a young lad nearly killed a few years ago with a stray bullet. Also there was a calf shot in the neck (hes alive still) at this shooting so there certainly was stray bullets.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fermanagh-boy-struck-by-bullet-leaves-hospital-1.457244
Quote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 11:03:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 11:00:36 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:57:25 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Shooting running cattle from presumably a distance if they were that wild no one could get near them to round them up? Not saying it was likely but certainly a possibility.
The point about stray bullets is wouldn't that be in a risk assessment. That's dozens of shots fired - surely a major consideration?
I've no evidence of stray bullets by the way, but if several calves were injured, does that suggest every shot was pinpoint?
I'd assume so. I'm no expert but this is talked about in the video. The vets talked at length about the training the team has had and their experience in carrying out these actions.The injured calf on social media was also discussed. The private vet and the Daera vet could not confirm if the injury was caused by a gunshot.Watch the video I found it very interesting.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 11:09:53 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 11:03:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 11:00:36 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:57:25 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Shooting running cattle from presumably a distance if they were that wild no one could get near them to round them up? Not saying it was likely but certainly a possibility.
The point about stray bullets is wouldn't that be in a risk assessment. That's dozens of shots fired - surely a major consideration?
I've no evidence of stray bullets by the way, but if several calves were injured, does that suggest every shot was pinpoint?
I'd assume so. I'm no expert but this is talked about in the video. The vets talked at length about the training the team has had and their experience in carrying out these actions.The injured calf on social media was also discussed. The private vet and the Daera vet could not confirm if the injury was caused by a gunshot.Watch the video I found it very interesting.
If you ask me which is the greater risk, I'd say the firearms option every time. That's the long and the short of it. Just my opinion.
In an unsurprising turn of events farmers are more vexed about the killing of cattle destined for the slab anyway than they are about their ongoing poisoning of Lough Neagh.
This cattle shite is a storm in a teacup being stirred by the DUP and their bought and paid for mates in the various farmers unions.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 14, 2026, 11:18:33 PMIn an unsurprising turn of events farmers are more vexed about the killing of cattle destined for the slab anyway than they are about their ongoing poisoning of Lough Neagh.
This cattle shite is a storm in a teacup being stirred by the DUP and their bought and paid for mates in the various farmers unions.
Yup. Many need gone through for a shortcut. Land seized etc
Quote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 11:07:28 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:57:25 PMQuote from: trileacman on August 14, 2026, 10:55:39 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:53:26 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 14, 2026, 10:52:01 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 10:50:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 14, 2026, 10:47:01 PMWhat would a risk assessment say about the possibility of a stray bullet injuring someone (or worse) in a public space with people watching on?
No idea do you have evidence of stray bullets?
Common sense would say that it was a fair possibility, no?
If the team is highly trained in firearms???
Yeah stray bullets have never injured anyone ever, you're right.
Did I say that? We are discussing this incident. Do you know if there were any reports of stray bullets?
Lad you're more interested in making inane rhetorical questions than actually debating the issue so I've no interest in engaging with you. If you can't see that DAERA really made a balls of this operation then fine but anyone with a cent of knowledge about working with livestock or farming knows that DAERA are talking shite. They'd plenty of better options than a Wild West shootout over the Fermanagh hills but they went with it because it was easy for the DAERA official's to fob the work off onto some hired guns. I don't think anyone but the world's greatest moron would accept the argument that what DAERA did here was the sensible course of action to pursue.
Here's a young lad nearly killed a few years ago with a stray bullet. Also there was a calf shot in the neck (hes alive still) at this shooting so there certainly was stray bullets.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fermanagh-boy-struck-by-bullet-leaves-hospital-1.457244
Good night.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 14, 2026, 11:18:33 PMIn an unsurprising turn of events farmers are more vexed about the killing of cattle destined for the slab anyway than they are about their ongoing poisoning of Lough Neagh.
This cattle shite is a storm in a teacup being stirred by the DUP and their bought and paid for mates in the various farmers unions.
Yep thats a very good point.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 14, 2026, 11:18:33 PMIn an unsurprising turn of events farmers are more vexed about the killing of cattle destined for the slab anyway than they are about their ongoing poisoning of Lough Neagh.
This cattle shite is a storm in a teacup being stirred by the DUP and their bought and paid for mates in the various farmers unions.
They wouldn't have got as far as the slab. More than likely starved to death. What was it 33 animal corpses found on this farmers land? Carla with clenched fist says farmers care deeply about the welfare of their animals whilst individuals with convictions and bans from keeping livestock standing in front of her.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 14, 2026, 11:27:24 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on August 14, 2026, 11:18:33 PMIn an unsurprising turn of events farmers are more vexed about the killing of cattle destined for the slab anyway than they are about their ongoing poisoning of Lough Neagh.
This cattle shite is a storm in a teacup being stirred by the DUP and their bought and paid for mates in the various farmers unions.
They wouldn't have got as far as the slab. More than likely starved to death. What was it 33 animal corpses found on this farmers land? Carla with clenched fist says farmers care deeply about the welfare of their animals whilst individuals with convictions and bans from keeping livestock standing in front of her.
She stood with worse in Scarva so it probably felt like a step up. My brother in law the silly **** was up in Stormont and when I asked him about it he trotted out a load of shite that was fed to him. By the sounds of it these were award winning cattle fed tea and biscuits and buyers were lining up.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on August 14, 2026, 10:43:58 PMReddgnhand are you of the opinion that civil servants in Derea can't make mistakes and should just believed in what they say?
Not at all everyone makes mistakes. I don't like the idea that people can be threatened and vilified for doing their jobs. I can only form an opinion based on what's factually in front of me not rumour and hearsay.
Good reminder of the power of unions!
This oufit landed with snipers to shoot the cattle, that was there intention from day 1. If u think its hard to round up cattle, how do you think they got to markets.Vet doing a risk assessment? Some bollacks landing with no intention of rounding up cattle. U say a vet in a better position to make the call compared to a experienced farmer? Certain cattle are hard to deal with, especially with calfs, but they can be rounded up if that the intention. Too many commenting here, with zero experience around cattle. And now u trying to make a situation we all should be outraged at, political,
If anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
Quote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 15, 2026, 01:57:27 AMThis oufit landed with snipers to shoot the cattle, that was there intention from day 1. If u think its hard to round up cattle, how do you think they got to markets.Vet doing a risk assessment? Some bollacks landing with no intention of rounding up cattle. U say a vet in a better position to make the call compared to a experienced farmer? Certain cattle are hard to deal with, especially with calfs, but they can be rounded up if that the intention. Too many commenting here, with zero experience around cattle. And now u trying to make a situation we all should be outraged at, political,
Are you speaking in general or about this incident?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 15, 2026, 01:57:27 AMThis oufit landed with snipers to shoot the cattle, that was there intention from day 1. If u think its hard to round up cattle, how do you think they got to markets.Vet doing a risk assessment? Some bollacks landing with no intention of rounding up cattle. U say a vet in a better position to make the call compared to a experienced farmer? Certain cattle are hard to deal with, especially with calfs, but they can be rounded up if that the intention. Too many commenting here, with zero experience around cattle. And now u trying to make a situation we all should be outraged at, political,
Vets know animal health better than farmers and all are experienced handling cattle in this neck of the woods.
Often farmers will avoid going to the vet out of tightness and cost themselves money in the process.
Another lovely aspect is many farms have poor setups, not even basic crushes available so vets have to take unnecessary risks around the animal.
10% of farmers have vet debt over a year old, around half take 90 days to clear a bill.
The useless cretin should have been given 3 weeks to live, maybe then hed have bucked up and got rid of the cattle.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 09:31:08 AMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Onward disposal to a meat plant / onward sale to another herd...
As an aside, it's pretty amazing in this day and age that there are no videos of the event.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 01:07:15 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 09:31:08 AMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Onward disposal to a meat plant / onward sale to another herd...
50% of the animals were unfit for human consumption so cant go to a meat plant and what other herd would take animals that are restricted?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 03:33:30 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 01:07:15 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 09:31:08 AMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Onward disposal to a meat plant / onward sale to another herd...
50% of the animals were unfit for human consumption so cant go to a meat plant and what other herd would take animals that are restricted?
What was wrong with them?
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 04:19:07 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 03:33:30 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 01:07:15 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 09:31:08 AMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Onward disposal to a meat plant / onward sale to another herd...
50% of the animals were unfit for human consumption so cant go to a meat plant and what other herd would take animals that are restricted?
What was wrong with them?
I don't know but there is information on the Daera website regarding restrictions on animals.
People should watch the hearing.
Its very good both to hear the account from vets and underlines the dysfunction inherent in "our democracy".
Every MLA seemed like they either didnt listen or couldnt understand what was being said, and keen to get their parish pump spake in, repeating falsities spread online etc.
Muir /McGarvey had to repeat themselves at least 5 times, the guy who came on via video wondered out loud why B Dooher wasnt present depsite this previously being discussed twice[he was on holiday].
The main vet was rightly exasperated having to deal with the dunces and was holding her tongue at times regarding the culprit in all of this. The farmer seemed "infamous" among the dept. Importantly, she said with hindsight and all reaction the same course of action would have been taken.
Hopefully they did do some video documentation of the farm. Again, the real scandal is the lack of jail time for the farmer.
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 03:33:30 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 01:07:15 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 09:31:08 AMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Onward disposal to a meat plant / onward sale to another herd...
50% of the animals were unfit for human consumption so cant go to a meat plant and what other herd would take animals that are restricted?
I meant onwards to a meat plant for slaughter. If they're condemned, still the correct place for slaughter rather than an open air large scale turkey shoot (imho).
Quote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 06:06:54 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 03:33:30 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 01:07:15 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 09:31:08 AMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Onward disposal to a meat plant / onward sale to another herd...
50% of the animals were unfit for human consumption so cant go to a meat plant and what other herd would take animals that are restricted?
I meant onwards to a meat plant for slaughter. If they're condemned, still the correct place for slaughter rather than an open air large scale turkey shoot (imho).
Sportacus
I'd advise you to watch the video on YouTube. The vets clearly answer the reasons the decision was made to do what was done There's quite a large number of people who disagree with how meat plants slaughter animals.Its only recently they were made to introduce CCTV onto their premises. Don't be fooled into thinking it's the most humane way to carry out an action like this.The vet in the video told the MLA's that the expert opinion was published.
Somewhat surprising that someone who knows f**k all about handling cattle is so obsessed with this thread.
You wouldn't happen to have friends or relatives in DAERA at all?
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 06:33:10 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 06:06:54 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 03:33:30 PMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 01:07:15 PMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 09:31:08 AMQuote from: Sportacus on August 15, 2026, 09:23:54 AMQuote from: reddgnhand on August 15, 2026, 07:20:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on August 15, 2026, 07:03:17 AMQuote from: GTP on August 15, 2026, 06:40:27 AMIf anyone thinks DAERA choose culling the cows as the easy option then they should compare the reaction to it to the complete non event rounding them up and taking the cows away would have been. From a reputational and paperwork point of view culling would always be the worst choice and likely more expensive.
Any marksman would have been present as part of the risk assessment. They wouldn't be much use if at home and something went wrong. It may be a balls up but the primary cause was a farmer incapable of looking after his animals.
? You think they did this expecting a backlash but thought "it's the right thing to do, we'll bear all the stick we get"
Or were they expecting it to be a routine culling job and were too lazy/stupid/incompetent or combination of all to gather the cattle up and take them to a mart?
What mart could they be taken to?
DAERA have state of the art handling facilities at the ports - somewhere to pen the cattle until next steps were sorted really shouldn't have been a problem.
Would also like to say that I don't believe anyone should lose their job (very highly unlikely given NICS culture). In my opinion mistakes were made but calling for heads is just performative by the UFU to get the social media activists off their case, which is pretty poor on their part.
I'll stand corrected if the inquiry throws up something that hasn't been revealed yet which might shed new light.
What next steps are you suggesting?
Onward disposal to a meat plant / onward sale to another herd...
50% of the animals were unfit for human consumption so cant go to a meat plant and what other herd would take animals that are restricted?
I meant onwards to a meat plant for slaughter. If they're condemned, still the correct place for slaughter rather than an open air large scale turkey shoot (imho).
Sportacus
I'd advise you to watch the video on YouTube. The vets clearly answer the reasons the decision was made to do what was done There's quite a large number of people who disagree with how meat plants slaughter animals.Its only recently they were made to introduce CCTV onto their premises. Don't be fooled into thinking it's the most humane way to carry out an action like this.The vet in the video told the MLA's that the expert opinion was published.
Please stop embarrassing yourself. All the large processors have CCTV installed in the lairage years ago because it is a requirement for the supermarket quality schemes in the UK. All the recent legislation achieved was to turn current practice into law and force a small number of small processors to install CCTV. You haven't even got the half of that right as the CCTV legislation refers directly to the lairage yard not to the plant as a whole.
What's the legal procedure for keeping cattle?
I'm assuming I just can't buy a cow or twenty from a farmer and stick them in a field?
I'm assuming there's paperwork to fill out before that happens?
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2026, 09:31:17 PMWhat's the legal procedure for keeping cattle?
I'm assuming I just can't buy a cow or twenty from a farmer and stick them in a field?
I'm assuming there's paperwork to fill out before that happens?
Yes, you need a herd number from DAERA and herdbook to record tags / TB status/ movements / births/ deaths.
Good luck with the new career !
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2026, 09:31:17 PMWhat's the legal procedure for keeping cattle?
I'm assuming I just can't buy a cow or twenty from a farmer and stick them in a field?
I'm assuming there's paperwork to fill out before that happens?
You need a herd number to keep any livestock even if it's just one. I think you can keep up to 5 bovines with a basic herd number but beyond that you need a level 3 agriculture diploma or equivalent (year long evening course would get you it). Even without the diploma you are bound by law to adhere to animal welfare and traceability standards.
The farmer in this case had a total ban on being involved with the management of any farm animals. I assume the 51 animals in question were being kept in another persons herd number but being managed by the convicted farmer.
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 15, 2026, 11:11:04 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2026, 09:31:17 PMWhat's the legal procedure for keeping cattle?
I'm assuming I just can't buy a cow or twenty from a farmer and stick them in a field?
I'm assuming there's paperwork to fill out before that happens?
Yes, you need a herd number from DAERA and herdbook to record tags / TB status/ movements / births/ deaths.
Good luck with the new career !
That's sort of what I was thinking.
But trileacman has explained how he might have gotten around all that.
Diploma? Dont know about that.
My da keeps few beef and is part of Farm Quality Assurance Scheme. You can get a visit any time to audit books/ animal welfare check.
The thing is, these things are all fairly permissive and give farmers space to come into compliance.
Even the ballbag involved in this case was given an extra week extension on top of legal standard two weeks. After all he did.
Quote from: trileacman on August 15, 2026, 11:17:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2026, 09:31:17 PMWhat's the legal procedure for keeping cattle?
I'm assuming I just can't buy a cow or twenty from a farmer and stick them in a field?
I'm assuming there's paperwork to fill out before that happens?
You need a herd number to keep any livestock even if it's just one. I think you can keep up to 5 bovines with a basic herd number but beyond that you need a level 3 agriculture diploma or equivalent (year long evening course would get you it). Even without the diploma you are bound by law to adhere to animal welfare and traceability standards.
The farmer in this case had a total ban on being involved with the management of any farm animals. I assume the 51 animals in question were being kept in another persons herd number but being managed by the convicted farmer.
The case was heard in June the ban didn't start until then.
https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/26175632.fivemiletown-farmer-banned-life-keeping-animals/
Quote from: reddgnhand on August 16, 2026, 11:22:02 AMQuote from: trileacman on August 15, 2026, 11:17:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2026, 09:31:17 PMWhat's the legal procedure for keeping cattle?
I'm assuming I just can't buy a cow or twenty from a farmer and stick them in a field?
I'm assuming there's paperwork to fill out before that happens?
You need a herd number to keep any livestock even if it's just one. I think you can keep up to 5 bovines with a basic herd number but beyond that you need a level 3 agriculture diploma or equivalent (year long evening course would get you it). Even without the diploma you are bound by law to adhere to animal welfare and traceability standards.
The farmer in this case had a total ban on being involved with the management of any farm animals. I assume the 51 animals in question were being kept in another persons herd number but being managed by the convicted farmer.
The case was heard in June the ban didn't start until then.
https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/26175632.fivemiletown-farmer-banned-life-keeping-animals/
Given that the dead animals were found at the initial investigation started in Jan 2022 I had assumed that he had been banned from keeping cattle before now.
It's 4 years ago, why would DAERA have allowed him to keep livestock for the entire intervening period?
Quote from: DaleCooper on August 16, 2026, 10:45:34 AMDiploma? Dont know about that.
My da keeps few beef and is part of Farm Quality Assurance Scheme. You can get a visit any time to audit books/ animal welfare check.
The thing is, these things are all fairly permissive and give farmers space to come into compliance.
Even the ballbag involved in this case was given an extra week extension on top of legal standard two weeks. After all he did.
To draw down any funding from DAERA you need a level 3 diploma with the exception of anyone who held a herd number registration prior to the intro of this policy (around 15-20 years ago). You don't need the diploma to draw funding for environmental schemes but the funding for them is small.