Poots hits out at gay rugby team

[his holiness nb]

That's like saying you walk into any ordinary bar and want to ride every woman in the place. 
Fiodoir
..and your problem is?  I took one there for Laoislad and the guys!

[Fiodoir Ard Mhacha]

There's a mighty difference between wanting to ride them all and getting even a once over off any of them.

[Evil Genius]

Good to see the efforts to bring the chinese guys into the fold at the NI game. From what I hear, they get a lot of racist abuse in certain areas up North, werent one group putting up posters giving out about "yellow people" coming here a year or so back? Cant remember who it was, or which "side" before we get into a "you lot are more racist that our lot debate.

Tbh, whilst there is a great degree of racism in NI generally, soccer can only do what it can do. As such, I am proud that they not only support and actively encourage participation between the two "main" communities in NI, but they also do a hell of a lot of work with e.g. disabled and homeless football, women and girls, immigrant groups and cross-border games etc, as well as the Chinese team, which latter I know has been especially well received by NI's Chinese community.

http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/womens-development/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/disability-football/
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/

Surely you mean 'begrudgingly tolerate'

No, I mean "actively encourage", as evidenced by the links I gave. I can quite easily cite any other amount of evidence to demonstrate the commitment, at both official and unofficial level, of soccer in NI to try and integrate and share. Of course, such a commitment is not completely uniform or consistent throughout every corner of the sport - this is NI, after all - but I have absolutely no doubt that it is the orthodox, with the naysayers being in a small and ultimately declining minority.

As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

[his holiness nb]

As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

EG, you seem happy to boast about how the IFA are encouraging foreigners, women etc into the fold,which I have commended, at the same time you mention how the GAA fails to draw people from the Unionist community in. Surely you will acknowledge this is the only group which may have a problem in joining with the GAA, and that the GAA has been quite succesful in actively encouraging people from all nationalities and religions (outside of one group) into the fold in recent years?

Now lets not turn this into another "why wont the GAA change to welcome the Unionists in" thread, after all this is a thread about a Unionist politicians homophobia.
But you could at least acknowledge this aspect, in the same way I did without resorting to pointing out some of the many flaws in the IFA?

[pintsofguinness]

I see it's notjust the DUP that are bigots 

[Evil Genius]

As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

EG, you seem happy to boast about how the IFA are encouraging foreigners, women etc into the fold,which I have commended, at the same time you mention how the GAA fails to draw people from the Unionist community in. Surely you will acknowledge this is the only group which may have a problem in joining with the GAA, and that the GAA has been quite succesful in actively encouraging people from all nationalities and religions (outside of one group) into the fold in recent years?

Now lets not turn this into another "why wont the GAA change to welcome the Unionists in" thread, after all this is a thread about a Unionist politicians homophobia.
But you could at least acknowledge this aspect, in the same way I did without resorting to pointing out some of the many flaws in the IFA?

I'm not "boasting" about anything, since merely 'doing the right thing' does not merit it. However, I am proud to point out that the Football For All ethos which Saffron Sam claimed was only "begrudgingly tolerated" by the IFA is, in fact, "actively encouraged" (if not yet perfect). Moreover, I pointed to clear evidence of this and offered to augment this with further evidence, if need be. (Such evidence is available from any number of reputable, authoritative and independent sources, btw)

As Kenny Archer once famously pointed out in his column in the Irish News: "Those who wish to live in the past and apply outdated labels to all Northern Ireland fans are the real bigots."

As for the efforts of the GAA to attract all sorts of minorities to its games, such as immigrants, ethnic minorities etc, I am more than happy to acknowledge this. Nonetheless, the comparatively recent success of attracting e.g. a few Nigerian GAA footballers in Dublin, or some Polish Hurlers in Tipperary (or whatever), whilst welcome, hardly makes up for the much greater and continuing failure to reach out in any way to the million or so of their fellow Irish men and women who have shared this island since before the GAA even existed.

Indeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

Indeed, as what is no doubt Mr. Poots's favourite book asks: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

P.S. How we got to this point was as a direct response to Poots's unsupportable (imo) claim that there can be no more place for a Gay sports team than there can for e.g. a Chinese one, I and others pointed out that the IFA supports just that, as part of its FFA ethos. I would have been quite happy to have left it there, had another poster not decided to cast scorn upon the sincerity of those efforts of the IFA and its supporters.

[his holiness nb]

I am more than happy to acknowledge this. Nonetheless, the comparatively recent success of attracting e.g. a few Nigerian GAA footballers in Dublin, or some Polish Hurlers in Tipperary (or whatever),

Eg you will find theres a bit more than "a few Nigerian GAA footballers in Dublin, or some Polish Hurlers in Tipperary" playing our sports.

Was the "or whatever" meant to cover all the rest? 

As per my last post "Now lets not turn this into another "why wont the GAA change to welcome the Unionists in" thread" I wont comment on the rest of your post.
I'm sure you will understand.

[snatter]

As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

EG,

Whilst accepting that the GAA could still do more to attract unionists, how much of this "failure" is attributable to closed minds in the unionist community?

For example, how many state schools in NI offer gaelic games?
How many state schools had the grace to even to reply to overtures to encourage gaelic games to be played there?
How many unionist controlled councils refused to provide GAA pitches?
We still have the ridiculous situation where out of 662 council-owned pitches; just 59 are set aside for Gaelic games. The rest are used for rugby and soccer.

Face facts, no matter what the GAA does on the cross-community front, it will face huge prejudice.
Its not all the GAA's fault big lad.

[saffron sam2]

Unfortunately, once again, entirely predictably we have, not one, but two posts from EG brim filled with whataboutery, selective quoting, assinine assumptions, crass generalisations, extrapolations and shouting bigot as loudly as possible.

I will however try to pick through the bones of what he has written.

As such, I will happily engage in debate with those who try to deny what is evident to all reasonable observers, especially when those who would deny it are adherents of a sport which has failed utterly to draw even the most token of representation and participation from across the divide in NI throughout its entire history.

Indeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

Altogether now, to the tune of Stand up for the Ulstermen

What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?
What about the GAA?

As Kenny Archer once famously pointed out in his column in the Irish News: "Those who wish to live in the past and apply outdated labels to all Northern Ireland fans are the real bigots."

He did indeed, but nowhere in any of my posts have I labelled all NI as bigots. I would suggest, based on their posts here that nifan, Chrisowc, MW, gawa316 and SBE Tim are not bigots. I have absolutely no problems however labelling you as a bigot.

You will also no doubt be aware of the equally famous (in some quarters anyway) of the Kenny Archer column where he took to task a spokesperson for ANISC who claimed that something as blindingly obvious (to the reasonable folk away) as changing the anthem played at NI matches would set back any progress made by FFA. A fragile thing this FFA.

Indeed, if my sport (soccer) failed equally to attract support and participation from all the main communities in NI on anything like so stark a scale, I would be ashamed. None of which should necessarily be a stick with which to beat the GAA - it is only, as I said, the right thing in itself. But I must confess to finding it hard to take such utterly unfair and unreasonable criticism from someone (Saffron Sam) whose own preferred sport is so flawed, to a much greater degree.

You make quite silly little assumptions here. What do you know about my preferred sport? Because I post on a gaa based message board, Gaelic sports must be my preferred sports?

I haven't played a game of Gaelic football in the last ten years - I played a game of soccer as recently as last Saturday (a 1-1 draw by the way).
I am not a member of any GAA club - I am the secretary of a soccer club.
I can describe the changing rooms at most Irish league grounds - I have never even made it into the changing rooms at Casement Park.
Our school fields teams in six sports - I am only involved in one of the six. I'll let you guess which one.
When you started the infamous "NISFA picks Fenians" (I paraphrase) thread, you will have noticed then that only 11 out of the twelve Belfast places on the committee had been taken up. Have a guess at who was supposed to be the 12th man?

I will let the reasonable posters out there decide what my preferred sport may be.

I will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

I will on this and indeed any future occasion decline your invite for a debate, because you are not capable of rational, reasonable debate. I could save you some time and actually write your reply to this post if you want, so predictable will it be?

[SammyG]

I will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

Sorry but I think you're having another one of your 'senior' moments. I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings) and have never defended Linfield over anything, nevermind there 'anti-Catholic policy' (to use your shorthand).

As usual you take two and two and add them together to get bigot.

[saffron sam2]

I will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

Sorry but I think you're having another one of your 'senior' moments. I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings) and have never defended Linfield over anything, nevermind there 'anti-Catholic policy' (to use your shorthand).

As usual you take two and two and add them together to get bigot.

Unfortunately on this occasion, I have been unable to provide the evidence because your post is lost somewhere in hyperspace. You did in fact defend the policy on the grounds that it was an unwritten rule and therefore ok. As you did with the exclusion of DC and LC (security reasons, I believe was the defence). Feel free if you have the time to try to locate the posts. I don't at this time, but you're better not pursuing this matter.

In most cases two and two does indeed make four.

[SammyG]

I will base any posts about the IFA / soccer on either my own experiences from having been involved in soccer at various levels over the past twenty years or from verifiable sources. I believe that there is a will in some people to change, but I don't think that it is particularly widespread. I don't think for example (and I now I am going back a bit) that those whose jealously guarded Linfield's anti-Catholic policy for years suddenly changed ther attitudes overnight. I don't believe that those clubs who consistently and persistently voted against DC and Lurgan Celtic coming into the B division have had Damascus like conversions to reasonable people as a result of the vote*. I too could go on with many, many more examples, but what is the point?

* Interstingly, both these disgraceful practices have in the past on a previous incarnation of this board been condoned by as 'reasonable' a poster as SammyG.

Sorry but I think you're having another one of your 'senior' moments. I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings) and have never defended Linfield over anything, nevermind there 'anti-Catholic policy' (to use your shorthand).

As usual you take two and two and add them together to get bigot.

Unfortunately on this occasion, I have been unable to provide the evidence because your post is lost somewhere in hyperspace. You did in fact defend the policy on the grounds that it was an unwritten rule and therefore ok. As you did with the exclusion of DC and LC (security reasons, I believe was the defence). Feel free if you have the time to try to locate the posts. I don't at this time, but you're better not pursuing this matter.

In most cases two and two does indeed make four.

Sorry are you now saying that some time ago, I said that the Linfield rule was unwritten (which is true although I don't remember saying it) or that DC were excluded on security grounds (again true and again I don't remember saying it) and those two things mean that I support the policy and am a bigot.

Ok right got that. 

[his holiness nb]

Sam, look at Sammys last few posts in the Long Kesh thread. He is clearly a WUM. I wouldnt worry about him.

Luckily there are a few guys from OWC who are capable of intelligent and reasoned debate on here. Hats tipped to Nifan and chris. And to a lesser extent EG.

The funny thing is Sammy is a mod on OWC, you would think he would be more careful with what he says, rather than make an idiot out of himself repeatedly.
I've lost count how many times he has been caught out on here now and refused to backtrack.

[SammyG]

Sam, look at Sammys last few posts in the Long Kesh thread. He is clearly a WUM. I wouldnt worry about him.

Luckily there are a few guys from OWC who are capable of intelligent and reasoned debate on here. Hats tipped to Nifan and chris. And to a lesser extent EG.

The funny thing is Sammy is a mod on OWC, you would think he would be more careful with what he says, rather than make an idiot out of himself repeatedly.
I've lost count how many times he has been caught out on here now and refused to backtrack.

Pot and kettle.

[AZOffaly]

Jaysus Holiness, you need to go back on the fags.