Poots hits out at gay rugby team

[Bar None]

Just interested, I've been acccused myself previously of running to the mods on occasions where I actaully didnt.
Was just curious.

Incidentally I agree fully with your last post. Well said.

You really are something!

??
Snowed Under I can only presume you have evidence to the contrary by that statement?
[/quote]

You have an amazing ability to associate anyone new with Snowed Under, I have counted at least 6 posters you have the old mmmhh familiar thing going.  Tell me did you report them all. 

[his holiness nb]

Nope, and I havent reported you either, as you havent done anything wrong.

Thats said, its clear to all that snowed under has had several new usernames since his banning, all of which were subsequently banned (thank the mods for that, not me  ) and I do beleive that you are his latest creation.

But as far as I know theres no rule against new usernames for previously banned posters, I could be wrong.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Just interested, I've been acccused myself previously of running to the mods on occasions where I actaully didnt.
Was just curious.

Incidentally I agree fully with your last post. Well said.

You really are something!

??
Snowed Under I can only presume you have evidence to the contrary by that statement?

You have an amazing ability to associate anyone new with Snowed Under, I have counted at least 6 posters you have the old mmmhh familiar thing going.  Tell me did you report them all. 
[/quote]

Tell us, did u not get enough attention as a child or something???

[Bar None]

Why do you ask that?

[winsamsoon]

I think this conversation especially from you side bar none falls into the irrelevant catagory. Please try and stick to the topic without making personal attacks on people about silly things. I think there is some sort of system where you can report any forms of abuse or personal slander to the moderators and rightly so because i know this is a GAA chat board but a little thought must go into what we are saying otherwise it would be like MSN and we all know that it is for kids .

[T Fearon]

In all seriousness should questions not now be asked of Poots fitness for office in a similar vein to Ian Og?

He has twice insulted the GAA and gaels by refusing to respect our national anthem and by admonishing the GAA for not doing more to attract protestants (yet has not even raised the issue of the monoculturalism within the iFA) and also implied that David Humphreys was not selected for the Irish Rugby team for political reasons on live tv.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

and also implied that David Humphreys was not selected for the Irish Rugby team for political reasons on live tv.

In fairness he may never have seen him trying to tackle.............

/Jim.

[saffron sam2]

You misunderstand the correct meaning of "Whataboutery". Nowhere have I tried to deny or defend the shortcomings of my own sport by pointing to the shortcomings (even where greater) of some other sport. Rather, I have tried to point to the double standards of someone accusing one sport (soccer) of failings which infect another sport (GAA) which he also espouses.

So when I make a comment about the IFA, it is only valid if I come up with a similar example from the GAA. Otherwise I am guilty of double standards. OK, that simple. A few points however:

1. By way of reasonableness and to prove that I don't espouse double standards, I would like to pose the following question. If a life-long Linfield and NI supporter were to write an epistle to the local press entitled "GAA - Congress of Shame", without referring to the failings which infest his chosen sport, would he too be guilty of double standards?

2. I don't believe that any organisation should set its standards based on those set by others. Therefore the GAA is wholly irrelevant when the standards of the IFA are being discussed. I brought the IFA into this thread to highlight Poots' hypocrisy. If I have any further points to make about a sporting organisation, I will make them without recourse to the behaviour and practices of other organisations.

3. Your point here seems to be at odds with this poster from the Darren Graham thread. You guess the poster

Anyhow, this is a GAA thread; if you want to discuss the situation facing soccer, it would be better either to open a separate thread, or borrow any one of Fatboy Fearon's myriad interventions

And this has exactly what to do with Darren Graham and the GAA?

And this has exactly what to do with Darren Graham and the GAA?

This is a thread about the GAA, in the context of the Graham affair. The Juice asked me my opinion on the GAA playing the SS and flying the Tricolour at its games and I replied strictly on those lines.

The arrangements for soccer have no place in this discussion, indeed, they serve only to sidetrack this thread down the usual "Yah, Boo, Sucks, Themmuns started it" line.

I could go on past page 5 if you like.

As for "selective quotations" - of course I have selected quotations to support my argument! The point is whether I have ignored other quotations etc which are inconvenient. And on this point, I think I can claim it is not my style to run away from difficult issues, or pretend they don't exist.

And let's have some evidence of "asinine assumptions" or "crass generalisations" in either of my last two posts. Ditto "extrapolations".

And as for "shouting bigot as loudly as possible" - the only reference I can recall was a (carefully selected!) quotation by Kenny Archer where HE denounced a certain type of critic as being bigoted.

You included a quotation that I find it difficult to identify any relevance. Why did you include it? Nowhere has anyone on this thread disagreed with what Archer has said - therefore the quotation is irrelevant. If you are trying to extrapolate from Archer's post that I am bigot, why not just say it?
I mentioned another quote from Kenny Archer (a more contemporary one at that), which gives a differing view of NI supporters. In the interests of balanced debate, obviously.

If you consider your preferred sport to be soccer, then fair enough, I will happily concede that particular point. Can I assume, however, that on the basis of your moniker and many of your posts in the other sections of the Board, it is still reasonable to describe you as also being an "adherent" of GAA sports? (About which, more below)

Based on my moniker, assume no such thing my good man. Based on your moniker, some would assume you are both Evil and a Genius, when it is quite clear from your posts you are neither (unless that it the whole genius behind it?). There are many possible reasons for the choice of my moniker; I may be a fan of Republica and my name could be in homage to the lead singer; I may have an irrational attraction to the spice; it may have been the colour of kilt my piping ancestors wore during their army days; it may even be an acronym; it may be a clever disguise to put people off my real identity. So assume nothing.

However, if by your choice of the word 'adherent' you mean member, then yes I was a member of a GAA club for many years (and a second for a short period of time). At no stage was I asked to sign any membership form agreeing to what is included in the official guide. In fact, the first time I saw the official guide was when it was posted here by an owcer. I was shocked when I realised that I had used paper that wasn't manufactured in Ireland and that I had once bought trophies that bore the legend "Made In China". Will I go to hell? In short, I have never been asked to adhere to anything that is included in the official guide and replicated here every time someone needs a reason not to join the GAA.

As an aside, the two GAA had a more balanced membership than any of the four soccer clubs I have been a member of. All of the soccer clubs were either mono-cultural or, by dint of my membership, multi-cultural. Both GAA clubs could easily be described as multi-cultural.

You have no problem labelling me as a Bigot. Fair enough, but I've news for you: I couldn't care less whether you do or don't - and certainly not enough to run to the Mods to "tout" you, as certain individuals on this Board are wont to do  I'm sure people can make up their own minds without your help (or mine).

As for the other Archer point (Amalgamation spokesman), I'm not familiar with the exact reference, but can I assume that the spokesman's argument was along the lines "If you make an issue of the anthem and withdraw it, that will only cause more trouble by hardening the determination of the extremists to maintain it"? If so, I personally think it a weak argument. On which point, I have consistently posted hereabouts that I would like to see GSTQ replaced by a distinctively Norn Iron tune and we should face down those who would keep GSTQ. In which case, your citing Archer on this point in reply to me adds nothing to your argument, indeed is utterly irrelevant, since I am on his side on this issue. 

If you are referring to me as the tout, why not just say it. I didn't like your description of Tony Fearon and Billy Hutchinson as counterparts - I still don't. If I was really serious I would have followed the procedures laid out by the mods.  I won't be touting on anyone - I have no links to Sinn Fein.

The original quote I referred to was something along the lines of

"The majority of fans would want to retain the national anthem. "I think if we bring in a new anthem it will set back 'Football for All' and what it has achieved. If the anthem is changed it will cause divisions within the fans and create a lot of embarrassment."

Others can decide the context in which it was made. Its relevance is discussed above.

As regards your support for the removal of a divisive anthem, what do you want for being in support of something so blindingly obvious? A medal?

Fine. You prefer soccer over GAA. Further, when you have had bad experiences in soccer, you have condemned those. I have no problems with either, indeed I sincerely regret any discrimination which you have faced. However, unless you can demonstrate your equivalent or greater outrage at the equivalent or greater problems which GAA, your other sport, experiences in its relations with the Unionist community, then your criticisms of soccer are less credible, since they appear to be from someone who espouses double standards. Note: I say "appear", since i couldn't be arsed going through all your posts. Therefore, if you can demonstrate your equivalent anger/dismay/outrage etc over the GAA's chronic failure throughout its entire history to reach out to 1 million Irish people of a Unionist persuasion, or its unworthy, even outrageous practices in certain areas, then I will happily concede.

A few more points with this:

1. I like many diverse sports, I wouldn't say I have a favourite one - it will depend on who is playing.

2. I note your regret which is commendable, but unless you are responsible for it you not feel the need to comment on the actions of others.

3. I have been entirely consistent with my points about the GAA. If there is anything you want to discuss please post it. I don't believe in rules of exclusion and have constantly argued on this board about many of the issues you are likely to raise. Feel free (if you get the time) to check this.

4. You are back at the double standards line again. My criticisms of soccer will be based purely on my experiences therein. Similarly, my praising of soccer will be based on my experiences of soccer and soccer alone. I don't think, again that standards of one organisation should be judged on those of another. Sort your own house out if you like.

How curious your choice of examples to back up your case - Linfield's former policy on Catholics and DC's previous exclusion from the B Division. Now on these points, I have never denied/condoned/defended such prejudice. And I daresay you are correct that those people who held those prejudices will likely still hold them (in so far as they are still to be had). But how curious that you should ignore the more recent developments which have hugely transformed the situation. These days, there is no religious bar to who LFC picks - indeed, afaik there have been times when RC's have been in a majority on the team, including under idolised captains like Pat "Billy" Fenlon (a Dub, no less!). And that's before we ackowledge the "True Blue" campaign at Windsor, or the Dunfield project with Dundalk, or the excellent relations engendered both with Derry City and clubs across the border in the Setanta.
As for Donegal Celtic, assuming they were excluded from the old B Division for the reasons you imply, that is disgraceful. But can you not even acknowledge that that was 180 degrees contrary to their recent admission to the Carnegie Premier League, despite their ground being clearly not up to the standard required of other clubs?
The point surely must be that even if they haven't gone away completely, the bigots and neanderthals you cite no longer hold sway in NI soccer anything like the way they once did. And your harping on about past grievances, since rectified, is as unreasonable, indeed prejudiced, as e.g. slamming modern day Germany on the basis that a rump of neo-Nazis still exists within that country.

Not in any way curious no. Two good examples to prove my point - that those who held sway for so long weren't replaced when the rules changed. Both cases highlight that the choices weren't made because it was the right thing to do, but because it was the expedient thing to do. If anecdotal evidence is to be believed, then some clubs (not far off the premier Division) still operate a similar policy to Linfield. Curious though, that you seem to have someone rolling the snowballs in the background. Curious too that you highlight relationships with clubs many miles down the motorway, but produce no evidence of attempts to involve soccer people from just across the motorway. The presence of a few highly (for the IFL) paid Catholics on a Linfield team does not the ethos of that club change. Sunday football at Windsor anyone? Curious also that you deliberately try to misrepresent the DC situation. There is no doubt DC's facilities don't meet the required minimum standards, but if they make it into the Premier division next year, it will not represent some volte face from the IFA. Rather it just highlights the fact that DC isn't alone in this situation and they would be taking several other clubs down with them, with no other clubs there to replace them. Many thanks by the way for Linfeld's donation to the cause at the weekend.

Curious too that you introduce the Nazis into the argument. A tad unfair to the IFA to link them to Nazis. In addition, your analogy is erroneous, in so far as when the Nazis left power they left en masse. In the IFA the rules were simply changed and those who had religiously maintained them stayed in place. I look forward to the day when the IFA at all levels is populated by folk whose only interest is in soccer.

Why do you, the person who started your post with accusations against me of "whataboutery", "assinine assumptions", "crass generalisations" and "extrapolations" etc bring SammyG into your reply to me? I am not Sammy, he does not speak for me, nor me for him; he is quite capable of speaking for himself.  "Physician Heal Thyself"

SammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory. You have backed that up with your DC point.

I stand over my initial assertion, that in my experience of soccer in NI, participation between "both sections of the community" is begrudgingly tolerated. Please, do yourself a favour and don't mention MOPEry in any replies.

[lynchbhoy]

theres at least two travellers soccer teams that I have played against in the past in midlands soccer leagues
no one has a 'problem' with them , apart from being afraid if you have any windy players on your team, as the travellers use their rep and their tough tackling to frighten other teams into losing before the ball is kicked off. Esp when its at their home pitch, beside the halting site. Decent fellas on the pitch (dont know about off it).

Poots is a headcase. Tony may have a point about having him sacked.

As for playing on mixed sex teams , have done this in tournaments in the past and had generally used this to 'score' off the field after the game/tournament - its hard to take this seriously when your ulterior motive is half fixed on what happens after the final whistle. so am against mixed sex sports, and by the same motivation can see gay rugby being a detraction to the actual effectiveness of the team performance for these guys.

SS2 - have to admit, I think you are spot on with your asimilation and highlighting of hypocricy/veiled subvertive motives etc
however you are wasting your time against that kind of mindset.

[SammyG]

SammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory.

Can you please stop making this ridiculous point? I have never said anything of the sort and the fact that you keep repeating it, doesn't suddenly make it true.

[saffron sam2]

SammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory.

Can you please stop making this ridiculous point? I have never said anything of the sort and the fact that you keep repeating it, doesn't suddenly make it true.

Your point would be less ridiculous, if I was unable to quote from the currect thread.

Sorry are you now saying that some time ago, I said that the Linfield rule was unwritten (which is true although I don't remember saying it) or that DC were excluded on security grounds (again true and again I don't remember saying it) and those two things mean that I support the policy and am a bigot.

Ok right got that. 

I note this also:

I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings).

So with little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings, you know that it was on security grounds that DC was kept out of the old B Division.

Keep up the good work SammyG.

[SammyG]

SammyG was brought in to highlight a common approach from many owcers, i.e. "there is a valid explanation for rules that, to the casual observer, may appear discriminatory.

Can you please stop making this ridiculous point? I have never said anything of the sort and the fact that you keep repeating it, doesn't suddenly make it true.

Your point would be less ridiculous, if I was unable to quote from the currect thread.

Sorry are you now saying that some time ago, I said that the Linfield rule was unwritten (which is true although I don't remember saying it) or that DC were excluded on security grounds (again true and again I don't remember saying it) and those two things mean that I support the policy and am a bigot.

Ok right got that. 

I note this also:

I very rarely comment on Irish League matters (as I have little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings).

So with little interest and even less knowledge of the internal workings, you know that it was on security grounds that DC was kept out of the old B Division.

Keep up the good work SammyG.

So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

[Donagh]

So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

You going to back that up Sammy or is it just another of you're renowned lies to deflect attention from yourself when you've been caught out?

[saffron sam2]

So yet again you take a statement of fact (which was in reply to one of your posts) and some how interpret that as me agreeing with it, even though I specifically state that I don't. FFS that's the sort of shite I'd expect from Fearon or Donagh, not from you.

Can you provide evidence that DC were excluded on security grounds?

Can you provide evidence that you have specifically stated that you disagree(d) with the exclusion of DC on security grounds?

Did you read my post?

Feck, I'm beginning to sound like you.

Where's MW when you* really need him, by the way?

* you as in the general populace of this board, rather than you specifically Sammy.

[An Fear Rua]

Where's MW when you* really need him, by the way?

I belive he Joined Fianna Fáil