I can't pretend to be neutral but my prediction is Fermangh 1-11 Armagh 0-13
I don't want to jinx anything but I don't think we have anything to fear, Fermanagh are better and Armagh are worse than prevous years
Would take a guess that there will be 31 counties shouting for Fermanagh..
I will be anyways
i'd like to see fermanagh win it, but i think armagh by 3/4 points.
fermanagh are used to sitting back and hitting teams by breaking out in numbers, i dont think armagh will allow them to do so (they will stop the runs by fair means or foul) and their defence will not allow nearly as much space as they were allowed against a very disjointed derry.
Quote from: wanderer on June 29, 2008, 11:22:11 PM
Armagh are worse than prevous years
Nonsense. Armagh have been as impressive as I've seen them in the last 3-4 years. Despite the loss of Joe Kernan/McGeeney/McEntees/McConville, the new lads have knitted in well and some of their attacking moves were very un-Armagh like of previous years and attractive to the neutral eye. They haven't really been in any bother so far. Even Francie is venturing up a la Tony Adams in his twilight.
I know what you are saying southderryman but the problem with Fernanagh when they get it right is that we have movement above and beyond anything else in Ulster. I honestly think in my heart of hearts that if you want to foul them, work away because we have free takers that will punish.
Before we depended on breaking ball to get parity in the middle third, but we now have McGrath and Murphy who can win clean ball individually, and McElroy (x2), Kelly & Little who will bust a gut to get their hands on a 50/50 ball.
I fully expect Armagh to be clear and overwhelming favourites but i will be quietly confident
Quote from: wanderer on June 29, 2008, 11:33:13 PM
I know what you are saying southderryman but the problem with Fernanagh when they get it right is that we have movement above and beyond anything else in Ulster. I honestly think in my heart of hearts that if you want to foul them, work away because we have free takers that will punish.
Before we depended on breaking ball to get parity in the middle third, but we now have McGrath and Murphy who can win clean ball individually, and McElroy (x2), Kelly & Little who will bust a gut to get their hands on a 50/50 ball.
I fully expect Armagh to be clear and overwhelming favourites but i will be quietly confident
i mean stopping the runners from the half back line. you wont score too many frees from there! i agree the movement is good. i didn't see the monaghan game, but in the derry game our defence was wide open (i dont think fermanagh kicked a score from more than 35 metres??) an scores were handy enough to get, aramgh will sheild that area, and to beat them i think you need to able to take long range points.
dont get me wrong, i'd like to see fermangh win, but i dont thik they will.
I know what you are saying southderryman, but in my opinion I think we have always troubled Armagh in the recent past and the tactics haven't changed that much (imo from Armagh's side).
The quote in the Derry game at 1/2 time on Setanata was Fermanagh would lose because Derry would score from 40 yrds and we couldn't! I have a chip on my shoulder about that kind off thing but scores aren't easy from 20/30/40 yrds and I could not care less if we beat Armagh by 2 points to 1.
As I say I'm quietly (sometimes not) confident but at this stage its all opinions
Quote from: wanderer on June 29, 2008, 11:50:46 PM
I know what you are saying southderryman, but in my opinion I think we have always troubled Armagh in the recent past and the tactics haven't changed that much (imo from Armagh's side).
The quote in the Derry game at 1/2 time on Setanata was Fermanagh would lose because Derry would score from 40 yrds and we couldn't! I have a chip on my shoulder about that kind off thing but scores aren't easy from 20/30/40 yrds and I could not care less if we beat Armagh by 2 points to 1.
As I say I'm quietly (sometimes not) confident but at this stage its all opinions
i wasn't being disrespectful of fermanagh's shooting ability. my main point was that the bulk of fermanaghs scores came from 20/30 metres, a brave few of these were when men had time on the ball as our defence was badly exposed when our hlaf backs followed their men out the field. i just think that armagh will cover the majority of the space inside their own 45 and its asking a hell of a lot (for any team even kerry) to win a game with long range scoring.
the high ball is an option but i think that wouls suit bellew. im not dismissing fermanagh's chances, i just think armagh will have too much for them. also fermanagh's midfield wont have it all their own way like they did for the majority of the game against derry.
QuoteI know what you are saying southderryman, but in my opinion I think we have always troubled Armagh in the recent past and the tactics haven't changed that much (imo from Armagh's side).
The quote in the Derry game at 1/2 time on Setanata was Fermanagh would lose because Derry would score from 40 yrds and we couldn't! I have a chip on my shoulder about that kind off thing but scores aren't easy from 20/30/40 yrds and I could not care less if we beat Armagh by 2 points to 1.
As I say I'm quietly (sometimes not) confident but at this stage its all opinions
Yes, you are 100% correct, Armagh need not turn up, due to Fermanagh's running ability and great freetakers. Just bring the Anglo Celt to Enniskillen tomorrow and hand it over.
Yeah right..... ;)
would love ferm to win, but my head says they wont
31 counties will be supporting fermanagh, and rightly so. id love for them to win an ulster at some stage, just not at our expense.
it will be a difficult game for armagh. it will be harder to get the direct ball into the FF line with fermanghs style of defence. however, im still confident we will win, with a few to spare. after two wins by four points each, and knowing there is a lot to improve on, im confident.
Big Clarke is a handful again, although I'd worry about your forward unit if he's neutralised. Also noticed McDonnell seems to turn inside now at every opportunity as if he has lost a wee bit of pace. Shouldn't have at 28/29? Maybe his marker wasn't so bad afterall.
Quote from Wanderer:
"I don't want to jinx anything but I don't think we have anything to fear, Fermanagh are better and Armagh are worse than prevous years".
Armagh have won six of the last nine Ulsters. They have played in six Ulster Finals since 1999 and won them all. Fermanagh, on the other hand, have never won Ulster and are appearing in their first Ulster Final since 1982. Yet, you dismiss Armagh by saying "I don't think we have anything to fear". I realise that its possible that Fermanagh can win this game, but I think you are dismissing Armagh far too lightly.
I am usually nervous the week before an Armagh match in the championship however this year so far has been a dawdle and since the cursed back door the Ulster has lost a lot of it's lustre.
Fermanagh caught us on the hop a few years ago at the business end of the championship and there are a brave few men on the Armagh team that were involved that day, I am sure that management and players alike will remind the younger lads on the squad what happened in croker that day and I expect Armagh to put fermanagh to bed by 5 or 6 points.
The craic will start in the post Ulster championship games, the nerves will be at me and the sooner we get bogged into southern teams the better.....................that is except for kerry, we can do without them for a while yet. ;)
if Fermanagh win their first Ulster Title they will certainly have deserved it having beaten Derry and Armagh, not a bad haul on your march to provincial perfection. :-X
Armagh will win this at a canter. True you can only beat what's put in front of you but what in May looked like a pretty tough route has turned out to be the easiest Ulster title of any of the last 10 years.
Might they get it too easy into the quarter tho and then not be properly prepared for the white heat of a croker show-down?
Is the match going to be definetly played in Clones, I heard someone say yesterday that it might be played in Casment
Clones is more neutral & is bigger, cannot see it being elsewhere.
Thats what i thought, plus that Casment is a bastard to get out off
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 30, 2008, 10:05:09 AM
Armagh will win this at a canter. True you can only beat what's put in front of you but what in May looked like a pretty tough route has turned out to be the easiest Ulster title of any of the last 10 years.
Might they get it too easy into the quarter tho and then not be properly prepared for the white heat of a croker show-down?
I'm not sure why so many posters can predicting such a one sided Ulster final. What are they basing this judgement on? Armagh have beaten two poor teams in Cavan and Down. At the beginning of the summer many pundits were talking of a Armagh side in transition and now suddenly they're back to being the power house of Ulster football. Yes, Armagh are a quality team, their record over the 10 years speaks volumes but there is no reason why Fermanagh should fear them. Of all Ulster counties bar Tyrone, Fermanagh have probably been Armagh's best difficult opponents in the recent history of the Ulster Championship. Fermanagh have been unbeaten in competitive football in 2008 with the expection of the extra time defeat to Wexford in the division 3 final, yet most people are dismissing their chances come July 20th. Regardless of what is written on this thread in the coming weeks, Fermanagh will be going to Clones to win. Gone are the days of plucky wee Fermanagh giving the big boys a game. We have earned the right to be in this final and we have every chance of winning it.
I cant see too many predictions of a cakewalk from Armagh posters. I certainly dont think it will be easy, Fermanagh are more than capable of winning but Armagh certainly have nothing to fear. Complacency will never be a factor again when playing Fermanagh after the debacle in 2004. I think we'll win because we have better forwards, it will probably not be a game for the purists.
QuoteComplacency will never be a factor again when playing Fermanagh after the debacle in 2004.
Was it true that either John or Tony McEntee was dropped in that game over an insult shouted about Stephen Kernan in a Cross game? Apparently Joe overheard it and dropped him. Anyone know if this was a fact?
I would be afraid that Fermanagh just won't get the scores. They dominated the Monaghan game, yet only won by 4 points when their haul included 2 relatively lucky/sloppy goals.
Like everyone else, I'm hoping they can do it. The battle of nerves may be a factor. Monaghan had a terrible start against Tyrone last year and had they settled earlier, would have won. Armagh won't have any nerves - this is a normal day at the office for them.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 30, 2008, 01:56:16 PM
I would be afraid that Fermanagh just won't get the scores. They dominated the Monaghan game, yet only won by 4 points when their haul included 2 relatively lucky/sloppy goals.
Like everyone else, I'm hoping they can do it. The battle of nerves may be a factor. Monaghan had a terrible start against Tyrone last year and had they settled earlier, would have won. Armagh won't have any nerves - this is a normal day at the office for them.
Fair point. This has been a persistent problem experienced by Fermanagh teams over the last number of years. The inability to turn poessession into scores. However, as already noted this final isn't going to a high scoring affair with both teams likely to deploy blanket defences. This game will be won and lost in midfield. Thankfully with Marty McGrath and Mark Murphy we now have a partnership to rival any county in Ireland. The battle with McGrane and Toner is one I'm really looking forward to.
How many of the Fermangh team are actually soccer players just looking to keep their fitness levels up?
I don't understand why so many people think that Fermanagh will be well beaten. They convincingly bet Monaghan, a team who many people on this board were blathering on about being potential Al contenders. They convincingly beat Derry who many more believed were on the verge of challenging for the AI too. Armagh have been impressing, I've seen them live against Cavan and Down. But Cavan and Down are too mediocre teams. I think Fermanagh have every chance of winning this game. They will be in Armaghs faces everytime they turn. Their work ethic is 2nd to none. And they have some damn good players on their team. Take Clarke and McDonnell out of Armagh and they are not half the team. That can be done by Fermanagh winning midfield, a feat they did with ease in their previous two games. Attack wise I think Armagh will have problems in the middle keeping with the speedy Fermanagh midfield. I fancy Fermanagh.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on June 29, 2008, 11:24:08 PM
Would take a guess that there will be 31 counties shouting for Fermanagh..
I will be anyways
I'd say you are right laoislad, 31 counties all going for Fermanagh!!!
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 30, 2008, 10:37:18 AM
Thats what i thought, plus that Casment is a b**tard to get out off
how is it??!!! Clones is far worse to get out of, took me 3 hours to get home yesterday. At least Casement is in Belfast so the roads in and out are pretty good.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on June 30, 2008, 05:04:16 PM
Take Clarke and McDonnell out of Armagh and they are not half the team.
This man is a genius
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 30, 2008, 01:56:16 PM
I would be afraid that Fermanagh just won't get the scores. They dominated the Monaghan game, yet only won by 4 points when their haul included 2 relatively lucky/sloppy goals.
Like everyone else, I'm hoping they can do it. The battle of nerves may be a factor. Monaghan had a terrible start against Tyrone last year and had they settled earlier, would have won. Armagh won't have any nerves - this is a normal day at the office for them.
They completely dominated the Derry game also, yet only won by two points, with their haul including a relatively lucky/sloppy goal.
Fermanagh will struggle against Armagh, because Armagh will not afford them space in their forward line, and it's hard to see where Fermanagh's scores will come from. Armagh's direct approach to their own forwards is in contrast to how Derry and Monaghan played, where the half-forward line were laboured in possession allowing Ferm defenders/forwards to close the space and crowd the defence. I can't see Armagh struggling in this regard. Plus, Armagh will have plenty of players capable of winning break-ball, so I'd expect them to at least break even in the middle third possession stakes.
I expect Armagh to win by about 3-5 points, but we're along way off the final yet!
Quote from: Will Hunting on June 30, 2008, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 30, 2008, 01:56:16 PM
I would be afraid that Fermanagh just won't get the scores. They dominated the Monaghan game, yet only won by 4 points when their haul included 2 relatively lucky/sloppy goals.
Like everyone else, I'm hoping they can do it. The battle of nerves may be a factor. Monaghan had a terrible start against Tyrone last year and had they settled earlier, would have won. Armagh won't have any nerves - this is a normal day at the office for them.
They completely dominated the Derry game also, yet only won by two points, with their haul including a relatively lucky/sloppy goal.
Fermanagh will struggle against Armagh, because Armagh will not afford them space in their forward line, and it's hard to see where Fermanagh's scores will come from. Armagh's direct approach to their own forwards is in contrast to how Derry and Monaghan played, where the half-forward line were laboured in possession allowing Ferm defenders/forwards to close the space and crowd the defence. I can't see Armagh struggling in this regard. Plus, Armagh will have plenty of players capable of winning break-ball, so I'd expect them to at least break even in the middle third possession stakes.
I expect Armagh to win by about 3-5 points, but we're along way off the final yet!
I'm a wee bit soberer than last night ;D but I, along with a lot of Fermanagh supporters have argued that 2004 was far from a fluke, and that with the right mentality we can be a competive team. Now i'm not saying that we will win the AI, but before the previous games we didn't have a chance, when we won there was a multitude of reasons for why, but too many people cannot seem to grasp that we were the better team on both days (based on the last 5 years better overall in the championship).
If Armagh beat us, fair play to them. But I will guarantee that if they score a goal or goals like Fermanaghs in the past few matches it will be because 'Armagh can grind out results' whereas we just 'hang in there' and are lucky!
Anyway getting away from that, the diagonal ball could and may be a problem for Fermanagh but I would be surprised if RC & SD will be allowed to win it cleanly, and if they do I would expect a minimum of 2 Fermanagh men around them by the time they look up. We will need to keep the score down, as eveyone knows but I feel we are capable of doing it. The first few scores will be interesting, as I fully expect Armagh to come out of the blocks flat out but if they don't get the scores registered early I would fancy us to keep chipping away
Quote from: mylestheslasher on June 30, 2008, 05:04:16 PM
I don't understand why so many people think that Fermanagh will be well beaten. They convincingly bet Monaghan, a team who many people on this board were blathering on about being potential Al contenders.
Ulster contenders maybe - AI contenders, no. (Unless one or two people got a bit carried away.)
Quote from: downgirl on June 30, 2008, 05:19:40 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 30, 2008, 10:37:18 AM
Thats what i thought, plus that Casment is a b**tard to get out off
how is it??!!! Clones is far worse to get out of, took me 3 hours to get home yesterday. At least Casement is in Belfast so the roads in and out are pretty good.
It took me 30 minutes to get from Casement to the roundabout on Saturday for a match attended by a couple of men and a dog. I wouldn't imagine it would be that much better than Clones if it was full to capacity.
Armagh may have one of the best FF lines in the country but my point is that if you can't get ball to them then they are no good to you - no need to try and be a smart arse, it doesn't suit you. Someone else wonders where Fermanaghs scores will come from, well judging by yesterday hardly any of them know how to tackle. The amount of fouls they commited was a joke and if the ref had to have been ticking players as per the rule book they would've had more than 1 sent off. So frees will be a major contributor to Fermanaghs scoreline I think.
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 30, 2008, 01:35:07 PM
QuoteComplacency will never be a factor again when playing Fermanagh after the debacle in 2004.
Was it true that either John or Tony McEntee was dropped in that game over an insult shouted about Stephen Kernan in a Cross game? Apparently Joe overheard it and dropped him. Anyone know if this was a fact?
yes, its true
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 30, 2008, 01:35:07 PM
"Was it true that either John or Tony McEntee was dropped in that game over an insult shouted about Stephen Kernan in a Cross game? Apparently Joe overheard it and dropped him. Anyone know if this was a fact?"
Of course its NOT TRUE. Tony McEntee played the entire game against Fermanagh and John didn't play any county football in the 2004 season because he was recovering from surgery. John hadn't played in any of the Ulster Championship games in 2004 because he was just after his surgery. So, to suggest he was "dropped" is nonsense. To suggest Tony was "dropped" is even greater nonsense seeing that he played the whole game against Fermanagh.
Apparently OWC are predicting that a british team will win.
Anyone see the betting,
I want to get rid of the Favourites tag, i think Fermanagh should be favourites simply because of the teams they have beat, Monaghan who people all over the country had their eye on after last years exploits and Derry the reigning League champions, Armagh are will be going into the game under a new manager a lot of new players still learning the trade.i would imagine Fermanagh will be so hungry for this as this will be their first title ever, so they will not want to let this chance slip through their fingers,
Fermanagh by 2
Ard Mhaca Abu
Fermanagh are a fine footballing side with bags of pace. The have plenty of good players and are strong enough around the middle sector to win their fair share of ball.
I think Armagh have the edge in that their attack is stronger than what Fermanagh have faced yet and play more as a unit than individuals(ie Derry)
I think, though, what will have a massive bearing on this game is the fact that is a Final. People sometimes underestimate how much pressure being in a final can put on players and how they react will determine how they play. The majority of the Armagh players have played in AI Finals, if not all of them at senior club and county or at u-21. They will know what to do and how to react, as will their manager as he has experience himself of being their. Fermanagh cannot say that and I think in the heat of Clones it may be a telling factor.
Armagh will win by 4 points
Are ticketmaster selling tickets for this?
I'd say ticketmaster are selling tickets for it as they were selling tickets for the Munster final...they were even offering a 2-for-1 deal on tickets for the Munster final...doubt they will do the same for Ulster though.
Courtesy of Mr Paddy Power
70 min Match Betting
4/9 Armagh 15/2 Fermanagh 9/4
To Lift The Cup
4/11 Armagh
15/8 Fermanagh
Armagh a shorter price than they were against Down which is strange considering Fermanagh have beaten Monaghan and Derry to get to the final which has been a tough route! Fermanagh are 9/4 to beat Armagh in 70mins and Down were 15/8. I would have thought this game would be priced something like 8/13 Armagh 7/1 Fermanagh 7/4
armagh by 5
My Armagh Starting 15 for the Ulster Final
1. Hearty (better direction with his kick outs required)
2. Moriarty (impressive to date)
3. Francie (never lets the team down)
4. A Mallon (very consistent but unfortunately gave away a few unnecessary frees against Down)
5. C McKeever (quality defender)
6. AOR (quality defender)
7. Aaron (could be played in the half forward line and use B Donaghy in half back line)
8. McGrane (looked very tired in 2nd half against Down)
9. K Toner (has looked very impressive in the championship so far)
10. Charlie Vernon (as 3rd midfielder)
11. MOR (needs to curb the nasty side to his play but wins an amazing amount of break ball)
12. Brian Mallon (possibly replaced by Aaron Kernan in half forward line, an excellent contribution against Down)
13. Stevie Mc (would like to see him start scoring from play again but still a quality attacker)
14. R Clarke (nothing needs to be said)
15. Stephen Kernan (has emphatically silenced his critics in 2008)
I'd like to see Hearty use aim a lot more of his kick outs at Charlie. I think he only utilised him once on Sunday - possibly our only clean catch?
Hello all! Just putting a message in here to get this thread back up to the top of the pile, im sick of seeing the armaghdown thread every time I login, takes me to a dark and sad place!
These were the line-ups in 2004. How many changes in personnel is each team likely see in their respective starting line-ups for the Ulster Final. My reckoning says Armagh will probably have 7 new starters. What about Fermanagh's? Are the replacements of equal calibre?
SCORERS - Fermanagh: S Maguire 0-5 (3f), T Brewster 0-3 (1f), C Bradley 0-2 (1 45), E Maguire, J Sherry 0-1 each. Armagh: S McDonnell 0-7 (3f), D Marsden, P McKeever (f), K McGeeney, O McConville all 0-1 each.
FERMANAGH - N Tinney 8; N Bogue 9, B Owens 8, R McCluskey 7; R Johnson 7, S McDermott 8, P Sherry 7; M McGrath 8, L McBarron 7; E Maguire 7, J Sherry 6, M Little 9; C O'Reilly 5, S Maguire 7, C Bradley 7. Subs: T Brewster 8 for O'Reilly (23), H Brady 6 for McBarron (40), D McGrath 5 for J Sherry.
ARMAGH - P Hearty 8; E McNulty 5, F Bellew 8, A Mallon 7; K Hughes 6, K McGeeney 8, A O'Rourke 6; P Loughran 8, P McGrane 7; P McKeever 6, J Toal 5, T McEntee 7; S McDonnell 9, R Clarke 6, D Marsden 6. Subs: B Mallon 5 for Toal (30), A McCann 7 for B Mallon (ht), K McElvanna 6 for O'Rourke (53), O McConville 7 for McKeever (55), B Mallon for Clarke (60).
REF - John Bannon (Longford).
There will be quite a few changes in the likely Fermanagh team for the forthcoming Ulster Final. Young players such as Tommy McElroy and Damien Kelly have broken into the team over the last two years. With regards the other changes in personnel its more a case of a rotation of players who were involved in the 2004 squad. Ronan Gallagher, Shane Goan, Mark Murphy and Ryan Keenan have established themselves in the team over the last few seasons. Shane Lyons and Ciaran McElroy have also returned to the county set up after a few years absence. Overall I think there will be seven, possibly eight changes in personnel in the Ulster Final team from 2004. In my opinion if Barry Owens were 100% fit and starting, this year's team would be stronger than the '04 team.
Ryan Keenan has been exellent so far in the championship, his workrate is phenomenal and I'd say he will definitely give the Armagh half back line trouble with his fast runs! Can't see Barry Owens starting, don't think he'd be fit enough yet for 70mins intensity. However if close with 20-25 mins to go it is a surety he will be sprung off the bench. This would give the players and supporters a huge boost.
With no disrespect to Armagh intended, every county in Ireland will be willing Fermanagh on, but sometimes the head takes over the heart and the gut feeling has to be an armagh win..but hope I'm wrong as it would be brilliant to see a Fermanagh win on 20th July!
Heard a few gripes about the quality of the tickets thats clubs received for the Armagh v Down game as oppossed to ticketmaster seats, which were meant to have been a lot better?? What sort of message does that send?
i'm a derry man and i'm not bein bitter in supportin armagh in the final as they would be the county i would back if derry were to go out of the all ireland series completely! armagh are a very strong physical team but they aren't slouches either and if fermanagh's gameplan is to use the blanket defence then they may scrap it cuz luk how well armagh wer able to counteract it and destroy a down team you would think cud use it so wel! wen u cum 2 the physical side of things there shud b no contest but sure us in derry thought that and luk wat happnd us? shud b a really gud game of football if we hav no southern ref in to ruin things... finally im sayin
armagh 2-12
fermanagh 0-11
Jim Bob. I agree with a lot of what you say but not your score prediction. No Ulster game has more that 5-6 pts difference max.
Like most neutrals I would love to see Fermanagh win but think it highly unlikely. The organisation and physicial strength of the Arma back lines looks impregnable against any Ulster team. Down's forwards are as good as, if not better than, Fermanagh's but they didn't stand a chance against a defence that was hitting so hard that if you got past the first tackle god help you in the next.
With McDonnell and Clarke in the form they are enjoying I cannot look past an easy Arma win, but by a small margin because Arma seem to have acquired the knack of only doing enough to win safely. A sign of a very good focused team.
McElvenna caqme on in 04? I can't remember that. Didn't realise he ever got a Championship run-out.
mc elvanna scored a point in 2004 did he not
Have they not met a few times since, maybe twice or thrice? anyone got the team list from those games?
McElvanna kicked a great point against Cavan in 04 when the game was very tight.
He was brought on in the Fermanagh game to mark Mark Little who was causing serious trouble, he did alright on him from what I remember.
Before I start, if I was a nuetral I'd be supporting Fermanagh!! But the problem facing them is how we have evolved over the last couple of years.
Before the Down game many, many crictics said that Down's mobility and speed would be our undoing - none of this manifested itself, Down were quick and mobile but ran into quick and equally mobile brick walls. Fermanagh beat us in 2004 witha qucik running game, fair enough. The took us to a replay ion 2006, again fair enough all three time they played a qucik running game..it won't work again and that's part of why I think Armagh will win this encounter.
The other element being the tag that has been bandied around about us being perennial under achievers -I think that's bigger motivation that winning the Anglo Celt.
I see Ryan Mc Cluskey touting for a return to Irish League soccer on teletext last night. Strange timing this, just over two weeks away from an Ulster Final. Perhaps Ryan has thrown in the towel and realises his GAA season will be over by late July early August
Quote from: T Fearon on July 04, 2008, 02:55:50 PM
I see Ryan Mc Cluskey touting for a return to Irish League soccer on teletext last night. Strange timing this, just over two weeks away from an Ulster Final. Perhaps Ryan has thrown in the towel and realises his GAA season will be over by late July early August
Tony I sure that Steve is hoping that too. Any time Clucker has marked him, he has had him in his back pocket
1.Hearty
2.Mallon
3.Francie
4.Finn Mo
5.Aaron
6.AOR
7. McKeever
8.McGrane
9.Toner
10.Mallon
11.SK
12.Vernon
13.McDonnell
14.Clarke
15.Tony K
MOR, Donaghy, Paddy McKeever all just missing out
Quote1.Hearty
2.Mallon
3.Francie
4.Finn Mo
5.Aaron
6.AOR
7. McKeever
8.McGrane
9.Toner
10.Mallon
11.SK
12.
13.McDonnell
14.Clarke
15.Tony K
if we lose mor thru injury ir suspension from this stage on we could be royally fcuked. mcdonnell will know that, did ye not see the break ball count in the second half last week? a good team would have punished armagh with that dominance of posession
Honestly Real? I would have MOR as one of a few with a cemented starting place.
Congrats BTW ;)
After Kerry getting beat yesterday, there is no doubt the importance of winning the ulster now, There a lot of big teams in the qualifiers and we would want to avoid those teams for as long as possible, If we beat Fermanagh, and get a favourable draw in the quarter final, we could find ourselves sitting nicely in the semi, where i would love to meet the dubs coz i wud fancy our chances against them, then after that it wouldnt really matter. But we cannot afford to take our eye off the ball, it happened in 04 and that was an all ireland that we threw away. ;)
QuoteAfter Kerry getting beat yesterday, there is no doubt the importance of winning the ulster now
Are you sure? If both Armagh and Kerry had won then we could not have met Kerry until the final. Is it not the case that if we lose the final that we will not meet Kerry until the semi, but if we win the final we could meet them in quarters?
If Armagh do win, they will have been as or more dominant in Ulster in recent years than Kerry have been in Munster!!
Martin O'Rourke, as annoying and frustrating as he is, has to start. If Peter McDonnell can get others to win more breaking ball then great, but without MOR in the team we struggle in this department. The second half against Down showed that Paul McGrane can't do everything on his own - there was no one winning the breaks for Armagh.
I just wish MOR would cut out all the shite and concentrate on what he's good at, i.e. getting his hands on the ball and moving it on.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 07, 2008, 04:46:15 PM
QuoteAfter Kerry getting beat yesterday, there is no doubt the importance of winning the ulster now
Are you sure? If both Armagh and Kerry had won then we could not have met Kerry until the final. Is it not the case that if we lose the final that we will not meet Kerry until the semi, but if we win the final we could meet them in quarters?
If Armagh do win, they will have been as or more dominant in Ulster in recent years than Kerry have been in Munster!!
I know what you're saying, but what i mean is, with Kerry in the qualifiers they will have to come through a few bruising encounters, there is a few good teams in there and i am happy to sit back and let them cut each others throats.
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 07, 2008, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 07, 2008, 04:46:15 PM
QuoteAfter Kerry getting beat yesterday, there is no doubt the importance of winning the ulster now
Are you sure? If both Armagh and Kerry had won then we could not have met Kerry until the final. Is it not the case that if we lose the final that we will not meet Kerry until the semi, but if we win the final we could meet them in quarters?
If Armagh do win, they will have been as or more dominant in Ulster in recent years than Kerry have been in Munster!!
I know what you're saying, but what i mean is, with Kerry in the qualifiers they will have to come through a few bruising encounters, there is a few good teams in there and i am happy to sit back and let them cut each others throats.
Won't they only have to play one game to get to the quarters now as they are beaten finalists?
Guess they deserve it after the tough task of winning one game (priced at 1/200)
We can play football and we can sing...
Is there anything we can't do!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A)
I'm warning you o'neill...
if you say a wprd agin that wonderful song you'll be a pariah of this community
Quote from: Erne Gael on July 07, 2008, 06:33:29 PM
Is there anything we can't do!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A)
The answer, sadly, is Win Ulster.
Fermangh played mayo in a friendly behind closed doors and got well beaten.
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 08, 2008, 11:34:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A)
The answer, sadly, is Win Ulster.
Ah, c'mon now... no need for that!!!
We're at it again!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAP-NTahnKs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAP-NTahnKs)
Quote from: Erne Gael on July 08, 2008, 12:42:39 PM
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 08, 2008, 11:34:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A)
The answer, sadly, is Win Ulster.
Ah, c'mon now... no need for that!!!
Watching those two clips it is hard not to be smitten with the infectious spirit of Fermanagh's first final in all these years. If I weren't from Armagh, I'd def be roaring you on.
In saying that, I will be dlighted for you if you win, but only if I know that the Armagh team has left 100% on the field. Armagh can not be complacent in any way shape or form, and should be going out with a ruthless desire to crush your hopes mercilessly for the 70 mins. Our sqaud haven't been busting their humps all year to give anyone a pity win. And only the smallest speck of complacency would see our downfall. I do believe Armagh have a stronger squad, but this is a 50/50 game. This is going to be a very tough encounter for us and I hope or boys show as much hunger as the Fermanagh team will undoubtly display. For a win, nothing less will suffice.
Good luck Fermanagh. May the best team win.
I see another record making occasion on Sunday when Armagh become the first team to beat Fermanagh in two Ulster Finals ;D
PS I see young Mc Cabe was playing for Glentoran against the PSNI last Saturday and Mc Cluskey is touting for a return to Irish League soccer. Shows where the priorities of some of the Erne Men's key players lie ;D
I see Mc Conville is pushing hard in training for a place, any thoughts from anyone? i would personally rather he wasnt starting, happy to a certain extent with the guys that have been playing and coming on as subs.
With a stonewall Fermanagh defence, frees could play an important part in this game. So it might make sense to have Oisin or TK on board.
Sadly, I think Fermanagh will try and buy cheap frees, so Armagh must be extremely disciplined. Not sure if we'll get our frees as handy; for this reason this igame may suit Vernon more than the previous two. If he can take a ball at pace he'll have to be hauled down to be stopped*. However, Brian Mallon put a big shout in for a starting place last time out. I would have Tony Kernan* in for Paddy McKeever, with Mallon McConvillle and McKeever as impact subs for the forward line. Donaghy's and Dufy's pace may be an assest if man marking jobs need to be done on their speedy little forwards.
I don't think our starting 15 is as strong as 2002, but I believe the bench offers greater versitility and ability and the way we are playing is better suited to our footballing abilities (more creative and not reliant on hoofed balls).
Quote from: corn02 on July 06, 2008, 06:28:59 PM
Honestly Real? I would have MOR as one of a few with a cemented starting place.
I have to say in the two games to date in the championship so far MOR has been poor enough and should be guaranteed nothing. The whole HF line is probably the line most likely to see any change. PMCKeever & Vernon moreso than MOR. I'd like to see Mallon start instead of McKeever, craft could be more important in this game than brawn.
QuoteI have to say in the two games to date in the championship so far MOR has been poor enough and should be guaranteed nothing. The whole HF line is probably the line most likely to see any change. PMCKeever & Vernon moreso than MOR. I'd like to see Mallon start instead of McKeever, craft could be more important in this game than brawn.
Would agree with that Benny. Martin O'Rourke wasn't great against Cavan or Down but he showed enough during the league and the past few years to be well worth his place. I think we need Brian Mallon in from the start. You could argue over whether that should be for Paddy or Charlie but Charlie is the man for the future so I'd tend to stick by him since he has more improvement in him for future years.
Just watched that 'Fantastic Fermanagh' video on youtube it's brilliant, really well done...and Fr. Brian Darcy thrown in for a bit of divine intervention! Who knows it could work for them, good luck next week fermanagh I'd love to see yous win an ulster title, you deserve it for your endeavours over the last 5 years!
QuoteYou could argue over whether that should be for Paddy or Charlie but Charlie is the man for the future so I'd tend to stick by him since he has more improvement in him for future years.
I'm biased but I'd like to see Paddy in there- think he's had a good run last few weeks despite not being on the score board as much as I'd like Definitely ahead of MOR and Vernon in my eyes
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 08, 2008, 06:02:52 PM
Sadly, I think Fermanagh will try and buy cheap frees, so Armagh must be extremely disciplined. Not sure if we'll get our frees as handy; for this reason this igame may suit Vernon more than the previous two. If he can take a ball at pace he'll have to be hauled down to be stopped*. However, Brian Mallon put a big shout in for a starting place last time out. I would have Tony Kernan* in for Paddy McKeever, with Mallon McConvillle and McKeever as impact subs for the forward line. Donaghy's and Dufy's pace may be an assest if man marking jobs need to be done on their speedy little forwards.
I don't think our starting 15 is as strong as 2002, but I believe the bench offers greater versitility and ability and the way we are playing is better suited to our footballing abilities (more creative and not reliant on hoofed balls).
That is one of my big fears for Sunday week, I know that we would be biased but I think that Armagh's physicality counts against them, I mean some of the frees given to Down were a farce. I am waiting for who the ref is with bated breath and if it's John Bannon I may hand my tickets in. It's all pointing to a serious amount of frees in the way that Fermanagh use small players to run at a defence.
Can't agree with some of the comments about MOR, I know at times he doesn't help himself, but if he doesn't get us break ball nobody does. I think his hard work, SK's craft and Vernon's ball carrying ability is the perfect mix. Paddy McKeever and Brian Mallon are excellent options to come off the bench along with McConville and TK. It's the greatest strength in depth in the forward line that I remember.
Quote from: mackers on July 08, 2008, 08:52:00 PM
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 08, 2008, 06:02:52 PM
Sadly, I think Fermanagh will try and buy cheap frees, so Armagh must be extremely disciplined. Not sure if we'll get our frees as handy; for this reason this igame may suit Vernon more than the previous two. If he can take a ball at pace he'll have to be hauled down to be stopped*. However, Brian Mallon put a big shout in for a starting place last time out. I would have Tony Kernan* in for Paddy McKeever, with Mallon McConvillle and McKeever as impact subs for the forward line. Donaghy's and Dufy's pace may be an assest if man marking jobs need to be done on their speedy little forwards.
I don't think our starting 15 is as strong as 2002, but I believe the bench offers greater versitility and ability and the way we are playing is better suited to our footballing abilities (more creative and not reliant on hoofed balls).
That is one of my big fears for Sunday week, I know that we would be biased but I think that Armagh's physicality counts against them, I mean some of the frees given to Down were a farce. I am waiting for who the ref is with bated breath and if it's John Bannon I may hand my tickets in. It's all pointing to a serious amount of frees in the way that Fermanagh use small players to run at a defence.
Can't agree with some of the comments about MOR, I know at times he doesn't help himself, but if he doesn't get us break ball nobody does. I think his hard work, SK's craft and Vernon's ball carrying ability is the perfect mix. Paddy McKeever and Brian Mallon are excellent options to come off the bench along with McConville and TK. It's the greatest strength in depth in the forward line that I remember.
I know they are good but I think we would stand a better chance with 6 forwards instead of 5 :P I think that management should show faith in the players that have played to date and not change anything unless through injury. With respect to Fermanagh the 6 forwards that started the last day should be good enough to set up victory. Given recent results I think it is imperative that Armagh win though as the last thing a new maager wants is to be going into the qualifiers with Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Down, Meath, one of either Mayo/Galway or Dublin/Wexford. While it is accepted that to progress they must beat them anyway I think for Peter McDonnell the confidence brought from winning the Anglo-Celt cannot be understated. It gives him, and the county board some level of justification for the appointment.
If the likes of Mallon, Oisin and Tony K are there as options off the bench it will mean that the players on the field will have to push thmslevs that bit harder to justify staying on.
Armagh by 4.
So far so good, the double is still on.
Ulster Ladies Intermediate Champions!!
Fermanagh 1-10 Cavan 1-08.
Replay was tonight in Brewster Park, Enniskillen.
Armagh are fucked when this little bollox is tipping them-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/7480738.stm
all we need now is for Pete McGrath to tip them and we have no chance
Quote from: Uladh on July 09, 2008, 12:06:48 AM
Armagh are fucked when this little bollox is tipping them-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/7480738.stm
all we need now is for Pete McGrath to tip them and we have no chance
Spillanes the one ye's need to watch for - the original blightmeister
The ref is a fellow White from Donegal i heard....so no J.Bannon ;D
Good stuff Real, Well thats half the battle then!!
Quote from: Real1995 on July 09, 2008, 07:29:27 AM
The ref is a fellow White from Donegal i heard....so no J.Bannon ;D
Don't really remember him reffing a top game, what is he like? A serial whistler like most of them or will he let it flow a bit?
BC1 you're a bit of a pedantic Pat!! :P :P
Quote from: mackers on July 09, 2008, 10:14:32 AM
Quote from: Real1995 on July 09, 2008, 07:29:27 AM
The ref is a fellow White from Donegal i heard....so no J.Bannon ;D
Don't really remember him reffing a top game, what is he like? A serial whistler like most of them or will he let it flow a bit?
BC1 you're a bit of a pedantic Pat!! :P :P
And that is that!!!
McCabe to bow out after decider
Glentoran insist that the Ulster SFC final will be the last GAA game of the summer for Fermanagh ace Shane McCabe.
The IFA Premiership side have allowed McCabe to play against Armagh on 20 July despite the game being sandwiched between two Uefa Cup fixtures.
But the Belcoo clubman, who has been been training with the Erne side and the Glens, will be watching from the stands after the Clones showdown.
Glentoran's opening Uefa Cup tie is just three days before the decider.
The east Belfast club take on SK Liepajas Metalurgs of Latvia at the Oval.
McCabe starred as a substitute in the Ulster SFC victories over Monaghan and Derry.
"The Ulster Championship final will be his last match of the season," Glentoran manager Alan McDonald told the Irish News.
"We've had a chat with Shane and his commitment to Glentoran is 100 per cent."
The midfielder scored two goals for Glentoran in the 7-0 friendly win over the PSNI on Saturday.
McCabe has established himself as an important midfield player for the Glens after moving from Dungannon Swifts in January and has made 17 appearances for the Irish League side.
He msut be on decent money!
wonder what big malachy thought about this when he read it ? :o
£200 to £300 per week according to the Irish News. With the minimal income taken at the turnstiles there must be some Irish League Club directors with very deep pockets.
You can't really blame Glentoran for this and in any event, next Sunday will be Fermanagh's penultimate match of the Championship season anyway ;D
Pity he wont feature after this one, but Glentoran pay his wages so its entirely understandable.
Any Armagh posters concerned that the team might have got it 'too handy' through to the quarters and might be unprepared for the quarters? No disrespect to Cavan, Down or Fermanagh btw.
(http://www.oceanwings.co.nz/content/images/107/2000x20000normal/Bait_Setting_capsule.gif)
Quote from: T Fearon on July 09, 2008, 12:42:02 PM
£200 to £300 per week according to the Irish News. With the minimal income taken at the turnstiles there must be some Irish League Club directors with very deep pockets.
You can't really blame Glentoran for this and in any event, next Sunday will be Fermanagh's penultimate match of the Championship season anyway ;D
Right enough the provincial champions don't get a second chance so it could well be with a tough quarter-final draw
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 09, 2008, 02:46:01 PM
Any Armagh posters concerned that the team might have got it 'too handy' through to the quarters and might be unprepared for the quarters? No disrespect to Cavan, Down or Fermanagh btw.
The Quarters? Sure even then, whos gonna be there to challenge?
Tyrone are done. Down are as good as they have been for the past few years, i.e not very. Everyone thought this year signalled a revival, but that was only because noone realised just how bad Tyrone now are. Derry will beat Monaghan, but sure Fermanagh beat them ffs! Kerry need to revamp their style to cope with the loss of Galvin and so are vulnerable. Cork are closer to being as bad as their first half display, than they are to being as good as their second. Galway arent as good as previously thought. Mayo are exactly as good as previously thought.
The only problem there seems to be is that Armagh will be mocked for winning such a handy AI title. I can hear the crys now as they embarrass everyone
'...Have a heart Ronan!'
'...Now Stevie, no need for the showboating'
But sure, you can only beat whats put it front of you ;)
As far as i can remember he refereed the Antrim v Cavan match this year as well...he got a lot of praise after that, none more so than an article i can remember Joe Kernan writing at the time....but yeah as far as i know its his first BIG GAME!!
Watched the Derry game again and it really was some team performance. 7 points down and we still manged to turn it around. It really does highlight how far this Fermanagh team has come in the last 5 years.
I feel that the 04 game will have little or no effect come the 20th. Although both teams still have the same backbone, the team management's have changed. We played each other in the opening Ulster Championship game in 05 I think and again in an Ulster semifinal in 06 and armagh beat us on both occasions(Albeit after a draw in 05).
O'Rourke is definitely a huge plus in fermanagh's favour but i have been impressed with McDonnell. Very ruthless in the way he dropped A Kernan before the Down game and he seems to have reinvigorated the whole Armagh set up.
The biggest question posing both teams is the system that they play. Armagh and Fermanagh like to bring a WHF and play him as a sweeper. Fermanagh have done it with Lyttle and Armagh with O'Rourke. The problem for both teams is that both Armagh and Fermanagh have WHB's who are more than capable of being a scoring threat. I certainly would not like to see A Kernan playing in or around or full forward line but then again I would love to see T McElroy or D Kelly playing in a more attacking position.
The second question from a Fermanagh point of view is who plays at full back. I feel that Goan will pick up one of McDonnell or Clarke. Owens will not be fit to start. I can not see Frog at full back because he is not a man marker. I have been one of the fells's biggest critic's but he had some game against Derry. It would be a huge call if he did not retain his starting place which would see him back at CHB. This could mean McCluskey back in the corner picking up McDonnell. McDonnell has always struggled against Clucker and I think that it would be a big ask for D Reilly or H Brady to come in for the cold to mark someone of McDonnell's quality. But Fermanagh's CHB line has been the key to our success and Clucker, Kelly and McElroy seems to have great understanding. They have won the lions share of break ball and rarely give the ball away. So then I could see P Sherry picking up McDonnell with Frog in the other corner marking the Armagh corner forward who will come out and play as a WHF. That means Frog plays at CHB and Clucker is left with the free role. Then again Lyons played the majority of the national league and would have been playing against Monaghan and Derry but for breaking his jaw in a club game. He did well in the League and he might get the nod.
Midfield is a sector where Fermanagh could hold the edge. McGrath and Womble have been a revelation this campaign. They both can score and have great engine's on them. McGrane has not been at his best this year but he still is a class act. If we can get on top here, we have a huge chance of winning the match.
Up front i expect no changes. McBarron should start at full forward and him and Francie will suit each other down to the ground. They will
'bate lumps out of each other' as we say here in Fermanagh.
McCabe will probably be used as an impact sub. The one player who will be lucky to retain his place up front is J Sherry. He has been quiet this year and is capable of a hell of alot more. T Brewster, S Doherty and M Keenan could all be played at CHF but Sherry i think will be given another chance. A Very talented footballer who hopefully will have saved his best performance for the big day.
Keenan, Maguire, McElroy and Lyttle will all start. They all have to do the usual and put the press on Armagh from corner forward back. They all possess speed which is a very potent weapon. They will run at the Armagh blanket all day long and will ask questions of the Armagh defence. Hopefully we can move the ball at pace and get in positions to punish Armagh.
Against Derry Fermanagh were very economical in front of goal(Except the last 10 minutes). They will have to do the same against Armagh.
We have to get a good start and cannot give Armagh a 7 point lead after 15 minutes. we have improved every game we have played this year. For the first time in a long time we have a bench which contains quality. if someone is not performing, well there is quality there to bring on, Cadden, Lyons, Brewster, Keenan's, Ward, Doherty, etc.
O'Rourke is a very shrewd operator. Press night out of the way along with a fan's meeting the players night last week. Means 2 weeks on concentrating on nothing but the match and leaving the hype to the fan's. He will have surprise or 2 for the Armagh game. One things for sure every Fermanagh player will know their role come Sunday week and it will be well drilled into them. This is the best drilled Fermanagh team ever. An Awful lot of time, money and effort has been invested in this squad. We can beat Armagh. We have beat Monaghan and Derry. Armagh have more quality up front but i see no reason why we cannot beat them. fermanagh by 2
In relation to your initial statment about how far Fermanagh have come in the last 5 years...I think you need to keep a little bit of a prespective on it. They have been the best 'sucker punch team' in the last 5 years, yes, no doubt about it. They beat Armagh, complacent to the 'enth degree' after their winning the first ever Ulster Final to be staged in Croke park and hammering a Donegal side. They beat a Derry team, again complacent to the 'enth degree' after beating the reigning All Ireland Champions in the league and running into a 7 point lead!!
Armagh will give Fermanagh all the respect they deserve and when I say that what I mean is Armagh will go out to bury Fermanagh from the word go - wether they do or not remains to be seen - but what I'm getting at is the Fermanagh element of surprise is gone - we have played Fermangh 3 times including 2004 so they aren't a team we don't know and we know what their bite feels like.
And like the other 31 Counties in Ireland I would have been screaming for Fermangh to win Ulster..if it weren't for being from Armagh.
Quote from: Travis T O Justice on July 10, 2008, 11:19:32 AM
In relation to your initial statment about how far Fermanagh have come in the last 5 years...I think you need to keep a little bit of a prespective on it. They have been the best 'sucker punch team' in the last 5 years, yes, no doubt about it. They beat Armagh, complacent to the 'enth degree' after their winning the first ever Ulster Final to be staged in Croke park and hammering a Donegal side. They beat a Derry team, again complacent to the 'enth degree' after beating the reigning All Ireland Champions in the league and running into a 7 point lead!!
Armagh will give Fermanagh all the respect they deserve and when I say that what I mean is Armagh will go out to bury Fermanagh from the word go - wether they do or not remains to be seen - but what I'm getting at is the Fermanagh element of surprise is gone - we have played Fermangh 3 times including 2004 so they aren't a team we don't know and we know what their bite feels like.
And like the other 31 Counties in Ireland I would have been screaming for Fermangh to win Ulster..if it weren't for being from Armagh.
Ahh now Travis. A 'sucker punch' team over the past 5 years. You have hit the nail on the head. The secret is out. We are rumbled.
No secret at all Ferm, Armagh expected to steam roll you in 2004, the eye was taken off the ball - KABLAMOO - Armagh out! Same as Derry, League Champions, Victors of the mighty Green and Gold all Ireland Champions - SPLATOOO - Derry out! Fermanagh play a wonderful style of football, fast, pacy and clean - it was pleasure watching you against Derry (let me just take my tonuge out of you pants before I go on) - but we've met enough times since 2004 not to go into this thinking 'Fermangh - easy Anglo Celt lads wonder who we'll draw in the All Ireland series'..so what I'm saying is the sucker punch or element of surprise is gone-ski beat.
But for the record, if you do win, which is a reality I'll be just as happy for you (after the fact) as any Erne man because by Christ you will have deserved and Erne'd it! (see what I did there)
Quote from: Travis T O Justice on July 10, 2008, 02:18:29 PM
No secret at all Ferm, Armagh expected to steam roll you in 2004, the eye was taken off the ball - KABLAMOO - Armagh out! Same as Derry, League Champions, Victors of the mighty Green and Gold all Ireland Champions - SPLATOOO - Derry out! Fermanagh play a wonderful style of football, fast, pacy and clean - it was pleasure watching you against Derry (let me just take my tonuge out of you pants before I go on) - but we've met enough times since 2004 not to go into this thinking 'Fermangh - easy Anglo Celt lads wonder who we'll draw in the All Ireland series'..so what I'm saying is the sucker punch or element of surprise is gone-ski beat.
But for the record, if you do win, which is a reality I'll be just as happy for you (after the fact) as any Erne man because by Christ you will have deserved and Erne'd it! (see what I did there)
It's a good job that Fermanagh have only caught 2 big teams on the hop in the last 5 years, Derry and Armagh . Every one else we have beat must have been those lesser counties e.g Donegal, Cork, Meath, Monaghan, Wexford, Mayo(in 03).
hey! Now you're gettin it! ;)
Quote from: FermGael on July 10, 2008, 10:00:46 AM
Watched the Derry game again and it really was some team performance. 7 points down and we still manged to turn it around. It really does highlight how far this Fermanagh team has come in the last 5 years.
I feel that the 04 game will have little or no effect come the 20th. Although both teams still have the same backbone, the team management's have changed. We played each other in the opening Ulster Championship game in 05 I think and again in an Ulster semifinal in 06 and armagh beat us on both occasions(Albeit after a draw in 05).
O'Rourke is definitely a huge plus in fermanagh's favour but i have been impressed with McDonnell. Very ruthless in the way he dropped A Kernan before the Down game and he seems to have reinvigorated the whole Armagh set up.
The biggest question posing both teams is the system that they play. Armagh and Fermanagh like to bring a WHF and play him as a sweeper. Fermanagh have done it with Lyttle and Armagh with O'Rourke. The problem for both teams is that both Armagh and Fermanagh have WHB's who are more than capable of being a scoring threat. I certainly would not like to see A Kernan playing in or around or full forward line but then again I would love to see T McElroy or D Kelly playing in a more attacking position.
The second question from a Fermanagh point of view is who plays at full back. I feel that Goan will pick up one of McDonnell or Clarke. Owens will not be fit to start. I can not see Frog at full back because he is not a man marker. I have been one of the fells's biggest critic's but he had some game against Derry. It would be a huge call if he did not retain his starting place which would see him back at CHB. This could mean McCluskey back in the corner picking up McDonnell. McDonnell has always struggled against Clucker and I think that it would be a big ask for D Reilly or H Brady to come in for the cold to mark someone of McDonnell's quality. But Fermanagh's CHB line has been the key to our success and Clucker, Kelly and McElroy seems to have great understanding. They have won the lions share of break ball and rarely give the ball away. So then I could see P Sherry picking up McDonnell with Frog in the other corner marking the Armagh corner forward who will come out and play as a WHF. That means Frog plays at CHB and Clucker is left with the free role. Then again Lyons played the majority of the national league and would have been playing against Monaghan and Derry but for breaking his jaw in a club game. He did well in the League and he might get the nod.
Midfield is a sector where Fermanagh could hold the edge. McGrath and Womble have been a revelation this campaign. They both can score and have great engine's on them. McGrane has not been at his best this year but he still is a class act. If we can get on top here, we have a huge chance of winning the match.
Up front i expect no changes. McBarron should start at full forward and him and Francie will suit each other down to the ground. They will
'bate lumps out of each other' as we say here in Fermanagh.
McCabe will probably be used as an impact sub. The one player who will be lucky to retain his place up front is J Sherry. He has been quiet this year and is capable of a hell of alot more. T Brewster, S Doherty and M Keenan could all be played at CHF but Sherry i think will be given another chance. A Very talented footballer who hopefully will have saved his best performance for the big day.
Keenan, Maguire, McElroy and Lyttle will all start. They all have to do the usual and put the press on Armagh from corner forward back. They all possess speed which is a very potent weapon. They will run at the Armagh blanket all day long and will ask questions of the Armagh defence. Hopefully we can move the ball at pace and get in positions to punish Armagh.
Against Derry Fermanagh were very economical in front of goal(Except the last 10 minutes). They will have to do the same against Armagh.
We have to get a good start and cannot give Armagh a 7 point lead after 15 minutes. we have improved every game we have played this year. For the first time in a long time we have a bench which contains quality. if someone is not performing, well there is quality there to bring on, Cadden, Lyons, Brewster, Keenan's, Ward, Doherty, etc.
O'Rourke is a very shrewd operator. Press night out of the way along with a fan's meeting the players night last week. Means 2 weeks on concentrating on nothing but the match and leaving the hype to the fan's. He will have surprise or 2 for the Armagh game. One things for sure every Fermanagh player will know their role come Sunday week and it will be well drilled into them. This is the best drilled Fermanagh team ever. An Awful lot of time, money and effort has been invested in this squad. We can beat Armagh. We have beat Monaghan and Derry. Armagh have more quality up front but i see no reason why we cannot beat them. fermanagh by 2
Great post Fermgael, couldn't agree with you more. I think it'll be fascinating to see what way the teams line out. MOR will be trying to surprise Armagh somehow, whether he does something tactically or selection wise i don't know.
I personally would be against Clucker dropping back, he, kelly & mcelroy have arguably been our best line this year. I think that he could do what he normally does with McDonnell and I think its pretty obvious that he doesn't like being marked by him, but it would weaken a positive in our team
Just after reading the Irish News and the brendan Crossans The Boot Room. Mark my words when I tell you the O'Rourke put him up to it.
Well any nervous wee Fermanagh heads out there.
Watched Armagh train last night and I must say I was impressed. Their training games are as competitive as most games you will see outside of Ulster, with some very hard hitting. Cant believe how slow Bellew is, but he has great positional awareness. Ther whole set up seems very professional and a cut abouve anything I have seen before. No nonsense, no messing, there was hardly a word spoke by any of the squad for the whole 2 hours. One of the O`Rourkes didnt train with the squad, I think it was the one that got sent off in their last game, he done a bit of work on his own and Clarke got a lot of work done on his back. McDonnell was awesome. Taking scores off both feet and making his diagonal runs, but I have a feeling that Fermangh could pull of a major surprise here. It wont be a pretty game. Fermanagh by 2. Spillane to tell everyone how bad football is up North.
Absolutely NO CRAIC about this game at all on here I would have expected a bit of banter from the Fermanagh heads - some sweaty hands or squeaky bum stories on their first shot at Ulster in thirty seven million years or whatever it is.
There are a few flags flying round the hills of south Armagh, but to be honest they are looking a bit ragged, having been put up to annoy the auld enemy before the Down game, rather than to celebrate the upcoming final
I remember very clearly the feelings on the run-up to Armagh's first Ulster in years, and the unswerving belief that we were going to be bate, again, and that there was no point in getting excited.
Years on, is this the overarching feeling in Fermanagh camp, or could you just not be arsed posting?
Yes, quite clearly the back door is the place to be this weekend.
never met a back door I didnt like...
::)
21 pages for Tyrone Louth compared to just 8 for this. You'd think at least Fermanagh fans would be keen to talk about this game. To be fair the real championship games take place on Saturday, good old knockout football is back. Forget the ulster final, win or lose there'll be no tears - the qualifiers and the prospect of no championship matches for 10 months is the place to be.
Well folks being from Fermanagh but not living there, its hard to tell exactly what the mood is. But from any friends/families/players I have been chatting to, it could be viewed as quietly confident. Without sounding arrogant, we expect to leave Clones with our record finally shattered. The nerves are a wee bit there, as always. Being from Fermanagh you hope for the best and expect the worst, but hope reigns supreme.
Armagh are a formidable team, but I am glad we are playing a team that if we win, the sensible heads can't say we didn't deserve it or that the best team didn't win. If it goes Armagh's way I will be gutted, but they have some record in Ulster, so its nothing to be ashamed off. I think Armagh being run away favourites suits us to the ground, and the lads I've been chatting to say that they are delighted that the media stuff is finished and the big days nearly here
Can someone send us a link to the Bootroom thing that from Brendan Crossan? I would like to get a read off it. cheers
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on July 14, 2008, 06:04:09 PM
21 pages for Tyrone Louth compared to just 8 for this. You'd think at least Fermanagh fans would be keen to talk about this game. To be fair the real championship games take place on Saturday, good old knockout football is back. Forget the ulster final, win or lose there'll be no tears - the qualifiers and the prospect of no championship matches for 10 months is the place to be.
Every aspect of your post os correct. Everything you have said on these boards are correct. You are brilliant.
He actually makes good points in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.
Pedant and all that I am - If I remember rightly that is a renamed thread that was originally 9 pages long asTyrone v whoever they meet in the qualifiers. Point is valid thou.
I am very confident about Sunday, which is probably bad news for Armagh.
I obviously wasnt being too serious, I think everyone knows which match they'd rather be involved in this weekend. Although the fact that a loss in the qualifiers can leave you without a game for 10 months does leave the games very interesting. I'd say there will be a lot of excitment among Fermanagh fans this week and this game will mean everything to them. Armagh may struggle to match the hunger of the Fermanagh players who will see this as a once in a life time opportunity, for Armagh its just another game. The freshness brought to the Armagh squad by McDonnell and the younger players like Kernan/Toner/Donaghy should help drive them on though. I think it will be close but Armagh could shade it.
Fermanagh beat a Monaghan team that was tipped for greatness this year and certainly one of the favourites for the Anglo -Celt and then went on to defeat National league winners Derry who had already beaten Donegal in Ballybofey and who were the bookies fav for the title while Armagh beat a very poor Cavan team and a down team that that got carried away with its victory over a shadow Tyrone team and Armagh are the favourites in the final.......... Something doesnt add up here !!!!!!
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Armagh have won 6 ulster titles in the last 10 years while Fermanagh have never managed to win one. That tradition takes a lot of pressure of the Armagh players and they will treat this as just another game. On paper Armagh also look stronger up front.
Point taken Tyrone dreamer but You might also add that fermanagh should have the greater hunger for the game. I went through Fermanagh yesterday and every town had bunting ,banners flags etc and really they are looking on this as their all-ireland . I am an armagh fan but I said from the moment they beat Monaghan that this was the first time I had seen a Fermanagh team with the realistic chance of winning an Ulster title and armagh have played them quite a few times over this past ten years. I know banners and all dont win games but I have spoken to quite a few of the ferm. folk and they are very confident. Armagh have a new manager and from the team that played Donegal last year no marsden , Mc conville McGeeney McNulty and from the year before no Mc Entees . still think the favs tag slighltly strange .
Quote from: rionach 4 on July 14, 2008, 08:56:01 PM
Point taken Tyrone dreamer but You might also add that fermanagh should have the greater hunger for the game. I went through Fermanagh yesterday and every town had bunting ,banners flags etc and really they are looking on this as their all-ireland . I am an armagh fan but I said from the moment they beat Monaghan that this was the first time I had seen a Fermanagh team with the realistic chance of winning an Ulster title and armagh have played them quite a few times over this past ten years. I know banners and all dont win games but I have spoken to quite a few of the ferm. folk and they are very confident. Armagh have a new manager and from the team that played Donegal last year no marsden , Mc conville McGeeney McNulty and from the year before no Mc Entees . still think the favs tag slighltly strange .
Well it was the 12th last weekend.
Hard not to go with Armagh, given their greater experience at this level, their relatively untroubled route to the final, the return to fitness of Ronan Clarke and a management that has proved itself much more tactically adept than Derry's.
Still there are very valid arguments to be made for Fermanagh, having already taken out two of last year's quarter-finalists and having appointed a manager who is as professional and confident as any manager in Ireland.
Whilst the Derry and Monaghan games were won to a large extent on the line, I think Armagh's management will do enough to ensure that Fermanagh's game plan is negated.
Having said that, ignore Malachy O'Rourke's contribution at your peril. I remember in 1992, when Fermanagh were ranked 9th of 9 Ulster teams and when Ulster had the reigning All-Ireland and National League champions, O'Rourke insisted that his wedding be held the week after the Ulster final, such was his confidence that the Erne men would reach their first first final in ten years. Such confidence was obviously misplaced then, but it gives an insight into the man's thinking. And who should have turned up at the hotel on the wedding day only Jack Charlton.
I fear that, not for the first time in his life, O'Rourke may have his thunder stolen on the biggest of big days.
Armagh by 4.
Come on fermanagh this is it! ;D Whats the views on the starting line up & what subs will be used throughout? Lets hope there will be plenty of celebrations afterwards in Lisnaskea!! :) Best of luck to all the boys ;)
I think our new manager will see us through. Up Armagh!
To be honest Orior, I hope it is our players that see us through, with as little intervention as possible from the sideline. All this talk of tactics scares me a bit. I think McDonnell has Armagh playing a sweeter more creative game. At times during the League when we were playing great stuff we looked unfettered by tactics with players making and creating supporting runs. It looked simple and brilliant at times. My fear is that we think we have to come up with something to counter Fermanagh's gameplan. I believe Armagh have a stronger 15 and also a stronger bench. Let them worry about us.
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 15, 2008, 02:23:40 PM
Let them worry about us.
The most sensible post on this thread to date.
Would any of our fermanagh brethren like to have a stab at the starting line up so we can do a comparison?
McDonnell has two decisions to make from an armagh point of view. first, aaron k will come back in so who to leave out? probably between donaghy and moriarty but habits thus far indicate donaghy will be dropped. then in the forward line there seems to be a decision between McKeever and mallon for the centre forward jersey. again, i suspect McDonnell will stick with what has worked so far.
That'd leave armagh as
hearty
Mallon Bellew Moriarty
McKeever O'Rourke Kernan
McGrane Toner
O'Rourke McKeever Vernon
McDonnell Clarke Kernan
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 15, 2008, 02:23:40 PM
Let them worry about us.
Sorry to disagree but that is the mindset of many subsequently beaten teams and McDonnell doesn't have the luxary of that type of bravado
Quote from: Uladh on July 15, 2008, 02:40:21 PM
Would any of our fermanagh brethren like to have a stab at the starting line up so we can do a comparison?
McDonnell has two decisions to make from an armagh point of view. first, aaron k will come back in so who to leave out? probably between donaghy and moriarty but habits thus far indicate donaghy will be dropped. then in the forward line there seems to be a decision between McKeever and mallon for the centre forward jersey. again, i suspect McDonnell will stick with what has worked so far.
That'd leave armagh as
hearty
Mallon Bellew Moriarty
McKeever O'Rourke Kernan
McGrane Toner
O'Rourke McKeever Vernon
McDonnell Clarke Kernan
Think McDonnell will stick to the same formula as well, pity for Donaghy and Mallon though whio did really well last time out, specially donaghy
Quote from: Uladh on July 15, 2008, 02:42:38 PM
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 15, 2008, 02:23:40 PM
Let them worry about us.
Sorry to disagree but that is the mindset of many subsequently beaten teams and McDonnell doesn't have the luxary of that type of bravado
I would say that my reasons for saying that is based on my belief that we have a better team who are capable of playing direct, supportive football. Of course this has to be meticulously drilled (and it is my understanding that the squad is), but our style is seeing us having players in positions to take the ball. Under Joe, we seemed to isolate the front two with moves breaking down in the great green expanse of the field were the half forward line were supposed to be. While MOR and Vernon drop back they seem (as do they all by the looks of it) have the brief to hit and run into the spaces created. SK has proved a crucial link here.
It would be nieve to think football now does not need tactical planning, but I think we can play to our strenghts from the get-go and counter what appears not to be working (again having been planned for). My worry is that McDonnell still doesn't make changes quickly enough (I hark back to the U21 semi final when Hanratty was left on far too long and JJ Clarke was used too late). We have the strenght in depth to make telling effective changes: make them as soon as needed.
While I do believe we are the better team I don't think there'll be much in this at all. Fermanagh will be in our faces till the end and aemore than capable of winning.
Quote from: Uladh on July 15, 2008, 02:42:38 PM
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 15, 2008, 02:23:40 PM
Let them worry about us.
Sorry to disagree but that is the mindset of many subsequently beaten teams and McDonnell doesn't have the luxary of that type of bravado
I think Skiddybabdoo is right. The 2003 AIF springs to mind were Big Joe tried to counter Harte's tactics rather than playing to our strengths and it went badly wrong. There are going to be very few suprises come Sunday anyway, maybe one or two personnel wise but the systems will remain the same.
Has the game been confirmed as a sell out yet? I know tickets are thin on the ground in Armagh, and I would assume there must be a ticket famine in Fermanagh as well. Also Ticketmaster appear to be out of their allocation too.
I heard that there are 200 tickets in total left with the Co Board - which I would assume is meant be covering any second allocations there were meant to be. A lot of clubs still have to give out their tickets this week, but I couldn't see any being returned to the Co Board.
I am sure it will be be a full house. It is an Ulster final, and it is not so long ago when Ulster finals involving Armagh drew 60,000. There are two different minor teams involved, which means a few more coming along.
To be honest I can't see O'Rourke changing things too much from the start, but then the real messing could start. With McCabe playing in the UEFA cup on Thursday night, and already this week, I'd be reasonably sure he won't start. At the same time I'd expect to see him before half-time, probably blood sub or early change. Full-back is an issue. Think we have a straight call between McDermott and Shane Lyons, neither of which on paper you'd have to say could stifle Clarke. The system will have to do that. McDermott done well on Mark Lynch last time out, who'd be of a similar stature and size to Clarke. We have three excellent left footed free takers on the bench in Pat Cadden, Tom Brewster and Matty Keenan. Injuries have hampered all three and depending on how things are looking behind the scenes one of these could start as the place kicking could have a massive bearing on the scoreline. O'Rourke seems to instil real confidence in the team and puts his faith in players, I expect him to name the same team beforehand, with a late change maybe before Sunday. We'll see Owens at some stage too. The full-back line, the half back's and the midfield will retain their positions fairly rigidly, the six forwards could literally play anywhere on the day depending on how he reads it.
Ronan Gallagher
Shane Goan
Shane Lyons/Shane McDermott
Peter Sherry
Damien Kelly
Ryan McCluskey
Tommy McElroy
Mark Murphy
Martin McGrath
Mark Little
James Sherry
Ciaran McElroy
Eamon Maguire
Liam McBarron
Ryan Keenan
Clubs are struggling for tickets, particularly seated tickets.
I think we'll win on Sunday for a very simple reason - we have better players, particularly in the forward line than Fermanagh do. The Erne men are a very decent side, very fit, very tactically aware and will make things very difficult for Armagh but I think we should have enough about us to win the match. As Benny pointed out, the surprise element about Fermanagh is gone and McDonnell will know what to expect. I'd tend to agree that the management shouldn't overly concentrate on counteracting Fermanagh's defensive system, though obviously we will need to be aware of it. I think a huge advantage for us is that we have two wing half backs who are very comfortable going forward which will mean that withdrawn Fermanagh forwards could play into our hands.
As for team selection I'd go for;
Hearty
Mallon Bellew Moriarty
McKeever O'Rourke Kernan
McGrane Toner
O'Rourke Mallon Vernon
McDonnell Clarke Kernan
But I expect him to retain McKeever. McDonnell is proving to be quite reluctant to change starting line ups which I hope doesn't come back to haunt him.
Armagh should have far too much firepower for fermanagh at the end of the day
I think they will win by four or five, will be comfortable throughout but won't put the nail in the coffin!
Fermanagh's forwards just don't impress me that much, brilliant midfield but they need murphy up front to cause any damage
Man for man how do Armagh posters think McDonnell will assign his defence?
AFS I think this will be a major part of the tactics on Sunday, with fouling in certain zones. To be honest our best free-taker, Ciaran O'Reilly, is out for the foreseeable future. Don't even know what his exact injury status is any more. Our second best free-taker, Tom Brewster, is, or has been, on the bench most of the year. On his day he can knock over a '45 quite easily. Pat Cadden and Matty Keenan on the bench are also quite reliable free takers, Pat probably the more consistent, but I seen Keenan knocking over a few sidelines earlier in the year. when he gets on a roll
Ryan Keenan will probably be the choice from the start, but I'd be a bit worried about his accuracy once you go beyond 30/35 yards. Mark Little is another good option, who knocks over 45s quite often at club level.
It certainly could be an issue on Sunday, and somewhere Armagh certainly have the edge, but that's no surprise and something bound to have been worked on lately.
What i think will be the Fermanagh team and how they will line out
R Gallagher
S Goan P Sherry
M Lyttle R McCluskey C Mcelroy
T McElroy S McDermott D Kelly
M McGrath M Murphy
R Keenan J Sherry
LMcBarron E Maguire
Quote from: AFS on July 15, 2008, 06:38:49 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 15, 2008, 06:22:14 PM
Man for man how do Armagh posters think McDonnell will assign his defence?
Without meaning to sound disrespectful but I don't think there's any specific threat in the Fermanagh attack that would require Armagh to change from the way that they'll be listed. In saying that I'd say if Little drops back A Kernan will probably alternate between picking him up and being the free man; obviously Francie will be on McBarron; Mallon will probably start on whoever lines up beside him (one of Keenan/Maguire/McElroy) but will be swiftly shifted on to any of the other two if their giving their man a bit of bother; A O'Rourke probably won't mark anyone with a combination of everyone else, particularly McKeever and Kernan, picking up his man (probably Sherry ?).
I think the fact that there is no specific threat in the Fermanagh forward line is actually an advantage for Fermanagh. Unlike Down with Coulter and Cavan with Johnston, you can not say if you stop one man, then you stop Fermanagh. We are more of a collective team than anybody that Armagh have played this year.
Quote from: AFS on July 15, 2008, 06:46:42 PM
To the Fermanagh posters, how confident are yous about your free taking ability? If our games this year, and for the last decade for that matter, are anything to go by Fermanagh are likely to get a pile of frees, however a significant proportion of these are likely to be 35-50 yards out. Any intercounty free taker worth a shite will be able to knock over frees from 35 yards or closer to goal but if Fermanagh have someone capable of consistently knocking over ones from further out it'll be a huge plus for them.
Ryan Keenan certainly has improved this year but I would worry. As already stated we have some good free takers on the bench but their fitness would be in question.
Yep, free taking is a concern. As Exiled has said our best free taker, Ciaran O'Reilly is out of football at the moment with a bad knee injury. Tom Brewster is our next best option but he hasn't the match fitness to start. I would think Ryan Keenan will take the majority of the frees, he has been consistent this year but anything from distance he might struggle with.
With regards team selection I don't expect too many surprises. Any changes will be positional.
Fancy O'Rourke to make at least one change, probably at full foward but we'll wait and see. The absence of a regular free taker hasn't hurt us so far so hopefully we'll still get by on Sunday.
Quote from: balladmaker on July 15, 2008, 05:00:14 PM
Has the game been confirmed as a sell out yet? I know tickets are thin on the ground in Armagh, and I would assume there must be a ticket famine in Fermanagh as well. Also Ticketmaster appear to be out of their allocation too.
Huge demand for tickets down in the Erne county as well. My own club aren't distributing their tickets until tomorrow although the majority of Fermanagh clubs have already given out their allocation. Whats the situation with the clubs in Armagh? With regards ticketmaster I was informed that the only tickets available were for behind the goals and on the hill.
Quote from: FermPundit on July 15, 2008, 07:18:51 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 15, 2008, 05:00:14 PM
Has the game been confirmed as a sell out yet? I know tickets are thin on the ground in Armagh, and I would assume there must be a ticket famine in Fermanagh as well. Also Ticketmaster appear to be out of their allocation too.
Huge demand for tickets down in the Erne county as well. My own club aren't distributing their tickets until tomorrow although the majority of Fermanagh clubs have already given out their allocation. Whats the situation with the clubs in Armagh? With regards ticketmaster I was informed that the only tickets available were for behind the goals and on the hill.
Every man and his dog will want a ticket for this one. Loads of exiled fans like myself are flying back for it and thats putting a huge demand on the clubs.
I def think it will be a sell out alright, no doubt everyone wants to be there to see Fermanagh put Armagh to the sword and win there fist Ulster tiltle ;D
I think Mal might throw a surprise into the starting line up, I would actually like to see Cadden start instead of McBarron, Bellow will have no problem marking Liam, however Cadden might be a different story.
I expect a very tight low scoring game with the team that gets a goal winning it, lets hope thats an Owens screamer late on ;D
Quote from: Fermanaghandsam on July 15, 2008, 08:35:58 PM
I think Mal might throw a surprise into the starting line up, I would actually like to see Cadden start instead of McBarron, Bellow will have no problem marking Liam, however Cadden might be a different story.
Given that Cadden has really featured since the start of the NFL, I'd be very surprised if he starts. If McBarron doesn't start it will be either Shane McCabe or Barry Owens. Both would be excellent inpact subs but as it is McCabe's last appearance before he on returns to the Glens I think he might start at full foward. I think he could be given a free role with the aim of running the legs of Francie Bellew. As was the case of Kevin McCloy, Fermanagh should try to exploit the lack of pace of Bellew. Although an excellent full back I don't think he would enjoy running around after the likes of McCabe or Eamon Maguire.
Quote from: FermPundit on July 15, 2008, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: Fermanaghandsam on July 15, 2008, 08:35:58 PM
I think Mal might throw a surprise into the starting line up, I would actually like to see Cadden start instead of McBarron, Bellow will have no problem marking Liam, however Cadden might be a different story.
Given that Cadden has really featured since the start of the NFL, I'd be very surprised if he starts. If McBarron doesn't start it will be either Shane McCabe or Barry Owens. Both would be excellent inpact subs but as it is McCabe's last appearance before he on returns to the Glens I think he might start at full foward. I think he could be given a free role with the aim of running the legs of Francie Bellew. As was the case of Kevin McCloy, Fermanagh should try to exploit the lack of pace of Bellew. Although an excellent full back I don't think he would enjoy running around after the likes of McCabe or Eamon Maguire.
Ferm, in fairness, every county that has played Armagh over the last five years have tried to expose Bellew's lack of pace and due to a mixture of a sound defensive system and Francie's reading of the game it rarely seems to work. I would say two areas that would've been worked on in the Armagh training camp would have to be the tackling and the breaking ball area. We didn't do well in either sector in the semi and Fermanagh will test us in these areas too. They will be like terriers in the middle sector looking ball and we are too reliant on MOR, others are going to have to go in and win the dirty ball.
Still a hard one to call. Armagh just don't lose Ulster Finals in this era - 1990 being their last.
Fermanagh have fought their way through the rocky path of Monaghan and Derry whilst Armagh have waltzed past the lighter challenges of Cavan and Down. Fermanagh are 'battle-hardened' yet there are few players more experienced than the core of the Orchard's squad. I do hold out some hope for the Erne lads in that if they can contain the Clarke/McDonnell threat to some degree, they'll go a long way towards lifting the cup as Fermanagh have shown that they are equally dependent on all 15. Kernan, O'Rourke, Mallon and McKeever are no better than what Fermanagh have on display. Although some have pointed to Bellew's lack of pace, Mallon and Moriarty will compensate adequately to allow the Fabulous Flamehaired to do what he does best - snuff out big Liam if O'Rourke starts him. McGrane on form will always be a worry.
Prediction: Fermanagh 0-2 Armagh 0-1.
I know a few coaches who would come in their pants if they seen a game this low scoring. Interestingly, they all coach in Tyrone.
Btw, O Neill, you really are an arsehole.
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2008, 10:05:57 PM
Prediction: Fermanagh 0-2 Armagh 0-1.
You've been watching too much soccer O'Neill
Do people think hes funny?
Humour bypasses lads? ;)
Jesus he hardly said anything too disrespectful did he?
I think Mallon will get the nod on Sunday. O'Rourke and Vernon will not be pushed too far back and Armagh will get through by 4.
I have two tickets for sunday for the GA - anyone know where the most central section is? i'm gonna write my own seating plan out during the minor game and keep it on the kitchen wall in future
IIRC, the Gerry Arthurs goes from A-M, so D - G is pretty central
Quote from: bennydorano on July 15, 2008, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: Uladh on July 15, 2008, 02:42:38 PM
Quote from: Skiddybadoo on July 15, 2008, 02:23:40 PM
Let them worry about us.
Sorry to disagree but that is the mindset of many subsequently beaten teams and McDonnell doesn't have the luxary of that type of bravado
I think Skiddybabdoo is right. The 2003 AIF springs to mind were Big Joe tried to counter Harte's tactics rather than playing to our strengths and it went badly wrong. There are going to be very few suprises come Sunday anyway, maybe one or two personnel wise but the systems will remain the same.
Whilst i agree there is a balance to be struck, to ignore what the opposition do entirely, especially at this level, would be suicide.
Obviously you must ensure the strengths of your team come to the fore but if tweaking is required in personnel, use of the ball, etc to achieve this then that is what must be done.
still fancy armagh by 4/5
my call armagh 1-12 fermanagh 0-11
Quote from: Uladh on July 15, 2008, 11:37:45 PM
i'm gonna write my own seating plan out during the minor game and keep it on the kitchen wall in future
:) You'd be some craic on a night out!!!
I see the game has an early throw in of 2:00pm, there will be some traffic headin up the road, what time is everyone leaving at, Im considering leaving at around 09:00 -09:30 get the yoke parked up, get some breakfast up there, read the paper, and have a dam good pre match analysis, couldnt be bothered sitting in that fuckin traffic. what about anyone else?
Just realised I swore and it didnt edit, can we curse again?
f**k f**k f**k
Obviously not
fermanagh have named an unchanged team for the final
Quote from: The Gs Man on July 16, 2008, 11:36:25 AM
Quote from: Uladh on July 15, 2008, 11:37:45 PM
i'm gonna write my own seating plan out during the minor game and keep it on the kitchen wall in future
:) You'd be some craic on a night out!!!
Mental
Quote from: mhacadoir on July 16, 2008, 11:56:09 AM
fermanagh have named an unchanged team for the final
seen that myself. He has made at least one change to every team given to the papers this year and that includes the national league games.
Pay no attention to that Fermanagh team. Would be shocked if that team started
Where'd you see this team?
This game stinks of upset --- an overhyped, stale, too long on the road, not very likable provincial title winning machine versus a fresh enthusiastic, popular challenger. As somebody once said about tha favourites - them guys would even love the smell of their own breath. Come on the underdogs!!!
A little quiz question from the last time Fermanagh played Armagh.
Which Fermanagh player missed the 1982 final due to world cup committments with the Northern Ireland team in Spain?
Quote from: rrhf on July 16, 2008, 12:21:46 PM
This game stinks of upset --- an overhyped, stale, too long on the road, not very likable provincial title winning machine versus a fresh enthusiastic, popular challenger. As somebody once said about tha favourites - them guys would even love the smell of their own breath. Come on the underdogs!!!
At least o'neill puts some effort into his windups. how do you expect anyone to bite on that ?
Quote from: FermGael on July 16, 2008, 12:29:49 PM
A little quiz question from the last time Fermanagh played Armagh.
Which Fermanagh player missed the 1982 final due to world cup committments with the Northern Ireland team in Spain?
George best! ;)
Quote from: Uladh on July 16, 2008, 12:15:56 PM
Where'd you see this team?
Taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7509502.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7509502.stm)
Quote
Armagh v Fermanagh
ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL
Venue: Clones. Date: Sunday, 20 July. Throw-in: 1400 BST.
Coverage: Live: BBC2 NI, Radio Ulster MW and on the BBC NI website
Armagh v Fermanagh
Fermanagh manager Malachy O'Rourke has named an unchanged line-up for Sunday's Ulster SFC decider against Armagh.
Former All-Star Barry Owens, who came off the bench to score a goal in the semi-final win over Derry, must settle for a place among the substitutes.
Glentoran midfielder Shane McCabe is also on the bench for the Ernemen.
Marty McGrath captains the side from midfield, Ryan McCluskey starts at his usual centre-half back berth and Liam McBarron starts at full-forward.
Oisin McConville is a step closer to being in the Armagh team as manager Peter McDonnell says he is pleased with how the player is going in training.
"Oisin had an excellent session on Sunday morning," said McDonnell who did not use McConville from the bench in the semi-final win over Down.
"If he can put two or three of those back-to-back then I would be very otpimistic about him."
Armagh are expected to name their team on Thursday evening.
Erne boss O'Rourke had indicated that Owens, who is returning after heart surgery, would not be a starter for Fermanagh in the decider but may play a part in the game.
"He won't start - a fit Barry Owens would obviously be an automatic starter," he told the Irish News.
"I think it would be asking too much. He has only played a wee bit of club football.
"He played 15 minutes against Derry and hopefully he will be fit to play some more the next day.
"The day after the Derry game I was talking to him and even though he played ony 15 minutes he was absolutely exhausted and very sore. It took an awful lot out of him."
Armagh: tba.
Fermanagh: R Gallagher, S Goan, S McDermott, P Sherry, D Kelly, R MCCluskey, T McElroy, M McGrath (c), M Murphy, C McElroy, J Sherry, R Keenan, E Maguire, L McBarron, M Little.
Quote from: FermGael on July 16, 2008, 12:29:49 PM
A little quiz question from the last time Fermanagh played Armagh.
Which Fermanagh player missed the 1982 final due to world cup committments with the Northern Ireland team in Spain?
Thats an easy one!!!! Billy Bingham.
Go here pick your star man for the final and you could win o neills gear
http://www.irishnews.com/thechampionship/starman.asp
cert fearon will enter about a hundred times and win
Jimmy Cleary.
Has anyone heard the Fermanagh song. It's a copy of the Lynyrd Skynyrd(I'd love to see Armagh 4 SAM try that one)song Sweet Home Alabama, but it's called Sweet Home Fermanagh!
It's quite good, was on Today FM this morning.
Quote from: Feckitt on July 16, 2008, 04:33:55 PM
Has anyone heard the Fermanagh song. It's a copy of the Lynyrd Skynyrd(I'd love to see Armagh 4 SAM try that one)song Sweet Home Alabama, but it's called Sweet Home Fermanagh!
It's quite good, was on Today FM this morning.
Its shite, I heard it myself on youtube, rubbish
it is terrible
to the tune of sweet home alabama it goes in one part
"In brewster park we beat mon-a-han,
in omagh derry's walls came down."
Quote from: Feckitt on July 16, 2008, 04:33:55 PM
Has anyone heard the Fermanagh song. It's a copy of the Lynyrd Skynyrd(I'd love to see Armagh 4 SAM try that one)song Sweet Home Alabama, but it's called Sweet Home Fermanagh!
It's quite good, was on Today FM this morning.
It's not sweet home fermanagh it's 'fantastic fermanagh'
It's tongue in cheek I thought it was funny and well done! Good singers on it at least.
Was hoping the song wouldn't be brought up...we're really gonna take a pasting here :-[
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A
Certainly not the worst song ive ever heard and much better than I could do
Quote from: hardstation on July 16, 2008, 04:24:25 PM
Charlie Vernon spotted leaning up against a car outside Loch an Iuir garage at 2:05pm on Monday. He was chatting to some blade. He looked relaxed, too relaxed.
Probably one of his tasty sisters ;) ;)
The Clones battle
Twenty six years later, my how the time has passed,
That Thatcher b!tch has been and gone, the war's over at long last
But down towards the border, one battle it still remains,
The fight to conquer old Ulster, is still Fermanagh's aim
We've battled the same oul enemies, to no avail for manys a year,
But suddenly by the Western lakes, a cloud of hope it has appeared,
For we've challenged the best in recent times, and they've fallen to our sword,
And now outwitting the great Armagh, will grant us our reward
Whilst the Oriel men were nimble, and the Oakleafers were big and strong,
Fermanagh men have courage, and to misjudge them would be wrong,
Bradley, Freeman, Muldoon too, all matchwinners on their day,
But in the fields of Omagh and 'Skillen, t'was the Ernemen who held sway
In every war men put on the green, and charge towards their fight,
But never before had fifteen warriors, been a more inspiring sight,
They worked together as a unit, fifteen men together as one,
Any weakness masked by another's strength, past failures all overcome
Shane Goan silenced Tommy and Paddy, Ronnie saved a pen,
Kelly was up and down the wing, the supporters cheered on their men,
Clucker proved he's among the best, now McElroy's up there too,
Marty and Womble bossed midfield, but sure then that's nothin' new!
Little ran for seventy minutes and Keenan had a starring role,
But every fairytale has a hero, and our's he got the goal
In GAA they talk of legends, like O'Shea, Purcell and Spillane,
And many counties have their idol's, the greatest of their land,
Now in Fermanagh we have great talent, but there's one never be-fore seen,
For Barry Owens is a giant of a man, the best full back there's ever been
So I say to our men on Sunday, go out there with your heads held high,
For you've reached this point on merit, 'tis your skill that has gotton you by,
But whilst the victories both held value, no trophy has yet been won,
While much has been accomplished, there's much more yet to be done
And so as you sit in Clones, and don an geansaà glás,
Remember the men that went before you, that served it in the past,
Men like McGinnity and Treacy, Mick Brewster, Tommy Durnien too,
The men that fought for manys a year, but whom victory never knew
But don't look back towards the past, and dwell on what's been and gone,
Glance instead towards the future, to the men that will follow you on,
For within your grasp is history, the chance to write it on your own,
The chance to inspire every boy and girl, every house and every home
And when you walk out on that hallowed pitch, know that in your heart,
Is the support of 30,000 spirits, the Fermanagh family of which you're part,
And as you look around the crowd, picture the kids when they grow old,
As they sit with their grandchildren, recalling the story that's about to unfold
So fight for every fifty ball, hit every tackle hard,
Make every single hand pass count, cover every grassy yard,
Jump higher for every catch, even if out of reach it seems,
Work up the pitch together, fight every battle as a team,
Leave nothing left to chance, leave nothing left behind,
Play to your potential, and victory we shall find!
Fear Manach Abú
QuoteWas hoping the song wouldn't be brought up...we're really gonna take a pasting here Embarrassed
It isn't a bad effort but its no "Come on Armagh"
We beat Tyrone in Clones Town
We drove Fermanagh into the ground................................................
Thats really good. So what if we're OTT, we don't get the chance to be often! Who wrote it?
The spelling seems to be fine so I'd imagine an outsider wrote it.
Were did that come from? Did you write it yourself? Its very good
Does anyone know where I could find a seating plan for St. Tiernach's park?
has anyone got access to a family ticket for clones.
genuine family in need.
got ticket tonight for the stands.
gaels club doing a good job doing up the town tonight (thurs).
they be some party when/if they win.
dirt lodge/ lodge of love opening disco sunday night especially for it
T Fearon will be e-mailing that Fermanagh poem to the Irish News looking for a prize ;)
Not much talk at all from the armagh camp this time round. pity, the odd rumour keeps us going!
anyway, i'm making the assumption that Mallon will come in for McKeever and Kernan will come back in for Donaghy. Donaghy is hugely unlucky.
Gallagher - Hearty
Goan - McDonnell
McDermott - Clarke
Sherry - Kernan
Kelly - O'Rourke
McCluskey - Mallon
McElroy - Vernon
McGrath - McGrane
Murphy - Toner
McElroy - McKeever
Sherry - O'Rourke
Little - Kernan
Maguire - Mallon
McBarron - Bellew
Keenan - Moriarty
The individual match ups are more irrelevent than usual for this game as both teams rely more on their team ethic and how the individuals work off each other. that can't be quantified of course.
Quote from: David McKeown on July 16, 2008, 05:54:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBijQzm9H0A
Certainly not the worst song ive ever heard and much better than I could do
:D That's shockin'.
I see some fermanagh supporters are referrng to the Armagh team as the robots , plug them in charge them up etc. Amusing!
sssSH. Sunday is all about Fermanagh. Leave armagh out of it.
sorry didnt mean to mention it. I know we are not supposed to be there . Promise, will go away and hide and will re-emerge at 4pm Sunday afternoon( Please speak very quietly when mentioning Armagh)
QuoteI see some fermanagh supporters are referrng to the Armagh team as the robots , plug them in charge them up etc. Amusing!
The "robots" reference comes from this particular piece of incisive journalism;
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/FH/free/363632821337544.php
the robots term is also in todays Irish news
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 17, 2008, 12:40:16 PM
QuoteI see some fermanagh supporters are referrng to the Armagh team as the robots , plug them in charge them up etc. Amusing!
The "robots" reference comes from this particular piece of incisive journalism;
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/FH/free/363632821337544.php
Jaysus, apart from anything else, that's brutal bit of writing. i hope he doesn't get paid for yon
Didn't read anyone talking about a major contributor to the result on Sunday, namely Hunger. It could work for or against Fermanagh. It could make them fight like dogs to win the ball or it could make them freeze on the big occassion. From what I have seen so far this year I think it will be the former. Fermanagh this year remind me of Cavan in '97. Underdogs to be sure but having plenty of talent also and ferocious hunger to win. I think the stars are lined up and Fermanagh are going to do it somehow. Hopefully it'll be a good match anyhow and personally I'm hoping for a Fermanagh win (no offence to Armagh).
Quote from: Uladh on July 17, 2008, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 17, 2008, 12:40:16 PM
QuoteI see some fermanagh supporters are referrng to the Armagh team as the robots , plug them in charge them up etc. Amusing!
The "robots" reference comes from this particular piece of incisive journalism;
http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/FH/free/363632821337544.php
Jaysus, apart from anything else, that's brutal bit of writing. i hope he doesn't get paid for yon
In fairness, from the sound of it he generally writes in mandarin. I hope.
Quote from: corn02 on July 15, 2008, 11:32:53 PM
I think Mallon will get the nod on Sunday. O'Rourke and Vernon will not be pushed too far back and Armagh will get through by 4.
First part right, lets hope the rest is too.
Quote from: corn02 on July 17, 2008, 10:20:11 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 15, 2008, 11:32:53 PM
I think Mallon will get the nod on Sunday. O'Rourke and Vernon will not be pushed too far back and Armagh will get through by 4.
First part right, lets hope the rest is too.
Go on then corn, don't leave us like that, is Mallon the only change for Sunday??
Yeah and AK back in obviously. It is on the official site.
Was sent this pic tonight from a Fermanagh yokel...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2677637333_822749de71.jpg?v=0)
from BBC Sport
The Armagh team to face Fermanagh in Sunday's Ulster SFC final at Clones shows two changes from that which defeated Down at the semi-final stage.
Aaron Kernan and Brian Mallon come into the side for Brendan Donaghy and Paddy McKeever but Oisin McConville is not named in the starting line-up.
Fermanagh manager Malachy O'Rourke has named an unchanged line-up.
Barry Owens, who came off the bench to score a goal in the semi-final win over Derry, is again named a substitute.
Glentoran midfielder Shane McCabe is also on the bench for the Ernemen.
Marty McGrath captains the side from midfield, Ryan McCluskey starts at his usual centre-half back berth and Liam McBarron starts at full-forward.
Erne boss O'Rourke had indicated that Owens, who is returning after heart surgery, would not be a starter for Fermanagh in the decider but may play a part in the game.
"He won't start - a fit Barry Owens would obviously be an automatic starter," he told the Irish News.
"I think it would be asking too much. He has only played a wee bit of club football.
"He played 15 minutes against Derry and hopefully he will be fit to play some more the next day.
"The day after the Derry game I was talking to him and even though he played ony 15 minutes he was absolutely exhausted and very sore. It took an awful lot out of him."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armagh: P Hearty, A Mallon, F Bellew, F Moriarty, A Kernan, A O'Rourke, C McKeever, P McGrane, K Toner, C Vernon, B Mallon, M O'Rourke, S McDonnell, R Clarke, S Kernan.
Fermanagh: R Gallagher, S Goan, S McDermott, P Sherry, D Kelly, R MCCluskey, T McElroy, M McGrath (c), M Murphy, C McElroy, J Sherry, R Keenan, E Maguire, L McBarron, M Little.
Referee:
Strongest possible team Armagh could line out!
Having watched Armagh on a number of occasions this year, have to say it is great to see Brian Mallon in for Paddy McKeever, will offer Armagh more in attack and give them alot more options.
Armagh by 4
Does anyone have a seating plan for Clones ??
Whats your seats? Could take a good guess!
Too all the Fermanagh fans out there that think this match is going to be a so called 'Walk in the park' let me correct you now!! Our boys r out to win nd are as hungry as ever! No doubt that the Fermanagh men will not go dwn without a fight but the boys in Orange will b the champions on the day! May i remind the Fermanagh fans that Armagh have won the Ulster title 13 times 6 of which have been in the last 10 years nd with any luck the 14th title is just around the conner,,, but then again we dont need LUCK!!!
Vernon
McGrane Toner
O'Rourke Mallon
Sk
Is this how we think they will line out round the middle with AOR as a sweeper and Mcdonnell and Clarke as a two man full forward line ???
Quote from: Armagh4sam2k8!!! on July 18, 2008, 01:24:09 AM
Too all the Fermanagh fans out there that think this match is going to be a so called 'Walk in the park' let me correct you now!! Our boys r out to win nd are as hungry as ever! No doubt that the Fermanagh men will not go dwn without a fight but the boys in Orange will b the champions on the day! May i remind the Fermanagh fans that Armagh have won the Ulster title 13 times 6 of which have been in the last 10 years nd with any luck the 14th title is just around the conner,,, but then again we dont need LUCK!!!
Jaysus o'neill, i knew you were bored last night when you started praising gilberto but give it a rest
Very happy with the line out particularly the FF line, think SK might be better employed closer to goal in the long run but can't knock his performances to date (proved wrong from last year)
Always have liked the look of Brian Mallon at CHF, along with Vernon a bit of ball carrying ability wont go amiss with MOR to win the scrappy ball. Will McGrane last the 70 (fitness wise)?
Haven't seen enough of Fermanagh to call it but they are bound to be straining at the leash if nothing else. I think we will learn a lot about both sides worth on Sunday.
Quote from: corn02 on July 17, 2008, 10:20:11 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 15, 2008, 11:32:53 PM
I think Mallon will get the nod on Sunday. O'Rourke and Vernon will not be pushed too far back and Armagh will get through by 4.
First part right, lets hope the rest is too.
Do you always make a point of congratulating yourself?! Modesty!
I certainly do. By the way I would like to congratulate myself on learning how to use Betfair. Well done me, got help from a poster too.
Anyway, will get the prediction out of the way here
Armagh by four or five
Possibly 0-14 1-7
A bit of nostalgia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsline/content/articles/2008/07/18/armagh_v_fermanagh_feature.shtml
Best of luck to Fermanagh tomorrow, would be great to see ye win it.
If Fermanagh win tomorrow fair play to them, I dont think they will be within 5 points of Armagh. Perdiction. Armagh 2-13 Fermanagh 0-12.
QuoteIf Fermanagh win tomorrow fair play to them, I dont think they will be within 5 points of Armagh. Perdiction. Armagh 2-13 Fermanagh 0-12.
Agree. Although Armagh are the favourites, such are the circumstances tomorrow, I think all the pressure is on Fermanagh to land their first title. The finish line will be hard to cross for them. No doubt they have the ability to do it.....against most teams in Ireland. But I have the feeling that Armagh are not one of those teams in an Ulster Final. I fancy Armagh to bag a couple of goals which will make it very tough for Fermanagh.
Armagh by at least 3 points.
Jus fancied given an overview of the game tomorrow, might be slightly biase bein a fermanagh man but ill give it a shot nehow.
Everyone know that on the big day anything can happen, i just have a feeling that from 1-15 fermanagh have a slightly stronger team than armagh. Firstly this is how i think fermanagh will line up:
Gallagher
Frog Goan
Clucker Little
Tommy P Sherry Kelly
Womble Marty
Sherry McElroy
Eamon Keenan
McBarron
Subs:
Sean Doc,
B Owens,
S McCabe,
S Lyons,
P Cadden
Looking at the potential battles the game might throw up;
Ronan Clarke- Shane McDermott; Probably the most important duel of the game. I personally feel that mcdermott is well suited to marking clarke. One of RC's biggest assets is his strength, this is one of the reasons frog will cope with him. Ok im not sayin that clarke will be completely shut of the game but if fermanagh can keep him to 2-3 points i feel we'll win the game. Should clarke be getting the better of SmcD than Shane Lyons is a very good option to come of the bench and have another shot at stopping him.
Again as has been seen in previous games i feel stopping clarke (or any other top fwd) wont be achieved simply by the man marking him but shall be down to stopping the supply.
Stevey McDonnell- Shane Goan; Its been very much thought throughout fermanagh that SMcDonnell wont be the match winner, im a little less convinced.
Midfield. This is an area i simply cant see Armagh winning. McGrane is simply not the footballer he was and i think it's fair to say that in Murphy & McGrath fermanagh possess the best midfield combination in the country at the minute. Fielding, strength, mobility, it seems perhaps over confident but i simply cant see a weakness in there game. I goin to go out on a limb and say that Murphy is my favourite for MOTM. He hasn scored against Mon or Derry and simply cant see him not scoring for a third game.
I agree with 'Real 05' in that Vernon will play as a 3rd midfielder. For this reason i see D Kelly taking him. Kelly's strength is underestimated but still he wont cope physically with vernon, that said however i think pushing fwd kelly will post serious problems from Vernon. If Kelly gets a yard on him i cant see vernon catchin him in a month of sundays. Kelly is also well capable of taking a score.
Mallon starting is a massive boost for armagh. In my opinion he is a similar but better version of s kiernan. In M O'Rourke they hav a player who is very effective at putting in the hard yards, underrated in my opinion but still as with the Vernon Kelly situation if fermanagh are given the opportunity to break than MO'R wont be able to compete with T McElroy for pace.
Up form for fermanagh McBarron and bellew should have a decent restle. Fermanagh are under no illusion as to mcbarrons role in there. The well capable of causing problems for bellew if high ball is drove in but as match winner he is not. One point to note from watching armagh's previous game is bellew's new found license to bomb forward. This will suit fermanagh to the ground who are excellent are breaking at pace. How many would argue the likey outsome of the game if the no14's for both teams were reversed??:)
Eamon Maguire- A Mallon; Eamon is bein labelled as fermanagh dangerman and indeed he is but in mallon i feel he is coming up against one of the three top CBk's in the game.
Keenan- Finny Mo; This will be an interesting tussle, even enough i recon with keenan possibly just shading it.
In my opinion the game will all come down to the last 25 minutes. This is were i think fermanagh could hold the key. In Barry Owens, S McCabe, P Cadden, S Doc fermanagh have for the first time ever a bench with the potential to come on and change a game. I Think that should fermanagh be loosing the game with 15 minutes to go a very interesting tactic would be to go with owens and Murphy in a 2 man ffl. Pumping ball into the two with mccabe, keenan, eamon & little coming through in support has the potential to cause havoc in any defense! This however is only a though and not somethin a see happening.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on July 19, 2008, 04:26:13 PM
Best of luck to Fermanagh tomorrow, would be great to see ye win it.
Not for me it wouldn't!
Armagh by 8
QuoteRonan Clarke- Shane McDermott; Probably the most important duel of the game. I personally feel that McDermott is well suited to marking Clarke. One of RC's biggest assets is his strength, this is one of the reasons frog will cope with him. Ok im not sayin that Clarke will be completely shut of the game but if fermanagh can keep him to 2-3 points i feel we'll win the game. Should Clarke be getting the better of SmcD than Shane Lyons is a very good option to come of the bench and have another shot at stopping him.
McDermott will not pick up Clarke. If McDermott is on Clarke Fermanagh will be beat. Shane is a good footballer and has spent most of his career at CHB and i fully expect him not to be playing full back on Sunday. The more i think of it, i feel that there is a real chance he will not start. Lyons may get the nod at full back instead.
The team that Armagh have announced is their strongest team. It highlights how serious Armagh are taking this Fermanagh team. They have more mobile half forwards and half backs than any of the 2 teams Fermanagh have played this year. Fermanagh do i feel, have a small advantage at midfield but Paul McGrane could roll back the years yet.
This game will be won and lost between the two 45's. The simple way to stop Clarke and McDonnell is to stop/spoil the ball going into them. If we get the majority of procession around this sector, then we will win the game.
A close game but Fermanagh by 2. Fermanagh 2-09 Armagh 1-10
Quote
Ronan Clarke- Shane McDermott; Probably the most important duel of the game. I personally feel that McDermott is well suited to marking Clarke. One of RC's biggest assets is his strength, this is one of the reasons frog will cope with him. Ok im not sayin that Clarke will be completely shut of the game but if fermanagh can keep him to 2-3 points i feel we'll win the game. Should Clarke be getting the better of SmcD than Shane Lyons is a very good option to come of the bench and have another shot at stopping him.
McDermott will not pick up Clarke. If McDermott is on Clarke Fermanagh will be beat. Shane is a good footballer and has spent most of his career at CHB and i fully expect him not to be playing full back on Sunday. The more i think of it, i feel that there is a real chance he will not start. Lyons may get the nod at full back instead.
The team that Armagh have announced is their strongest team. It highlights how serious Armagh are taking this Fermanagh team. They have more mobile half forwards and half backs than any of the 2 teams Fermanagh have played this year. Fermanagh do i feel, have a small advantage at midfield but Paul McGrane could roll back the years yet.
This game will be won and lost between the two 45's. The simple way to stop Clarke and McDonnell is to stop/spoil the ball going into them. If we get the majority of procession around this sector, then we will win the game.
A close game but Fermanagh by 2. Fermanagh 2-09 Armagh 1-10
I dont think your far away with your scoreline prediction but as for lyons startin on clarke, cant see it!! Fairly sure that Frogs the man there! Do ya not recon monaghans half fwd line could rivil armaghs for mobility??
Quote from: FromAFar on July 19, 2008, 08:07:33 PM
I dont think your far away with your scoreline prediction but as for lyons startin on clarke, cant see it!! Fairly sure that Frogs the man there! Do ya not recon monaghans half fwd line could rivil armaghs for mobility??
No and No
I'd be interested to see where the Fermanagh goal's will come from?
As for man marking Clarke and McDonnell out of the game, it would be foolish to forget about Stephen Kernan, Brian Mallon et al. Match winners in their own right.
As for midfield, it is one of those areas that even a bad midfield can at least break the ball against a good midfield. However, Armagh are far from being a poor midfield. I expect to see McGrane to give one of his sterling performances tomorrow, and Fermanagh will not walk midfield as some are predicting. Toner is more than capable of holding his own as well.
Armagh by at least 3.
Quote from: AFS on July 19, 2008, 08:40:43 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 19, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
The team that Armagh have announced is their strongest team. It highlights how serious Armagh are taking this Fermanagh team.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course Armagh are taking Fermanagh seriously, as they take all teams. Because B Mallon didn't line out against Down does this mean that Armagh didn't take them seriously?
Quote from: FermGael on July 19, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
This game will be won and lost between the two 45's. The simple way to stop Clarke and McDonnell is to stop/spoil the ball going into them. If we get the majority of procession around this sector, then we will win the game.
Didn't work for Down, why will it work for Fermanagh?
Better defence
I just want to wish all the players and management the best of luck for tomorrow. Let's hope they make it a historic day for Fermanagh football. Fear Manach Abu!
Quote from: AFS on July 19, 2008, 08:40:43 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 19, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
The team that Armagh have announced is their strongest team. It highlights how serious Armagh are taking this Fermanagh team.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course Armagh are taking Fermanagh seriously, as they take all teams. Because B Mallon didn't line out against Down does this mean that Armagh didn't take them seriously?
Quote from: FermGael on July 19, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
This game will be won and lost between the two 45's. The simple way to stop Clarke and McDonnell is to stop/spoil the ball going into them. If we get the majority of procession around this sector, then we will win the game.
Didn't work for Down, why will it work for Fermanagh?
Fermanagh are a better team than Down and play a more defensive style of football than Down. We are well drilled in how to defend and if Armagh drop a man back, then Fermanagh will do the same(like down) but will have a hell of alot more experience of playing this system.
Your point is very valid about Kernan, Mallon etc. I think that if Armagh play an orthodox three man full forward line then Fermanagh could be in football. It may mean McCluskey having to move back to the corner and this would hurt Fermanagh from an attacking point of view.
As for Fermanagh being more physical than Armagh, i do not buy into that.
One memory that i have from the Derry game, is the Derry CHB(McCusker i think) going for a ball with Lyttle.
They went at it shoulder for shoulder and Lyttle still won the ball. We might not have the mirror muscles of the Armagh team but we will surprise you with our upper body strength.
The time for slabbering is near over. Fear Manach Abu
Quote from: FermGael on July 19, 2008, 10:32:33 PM
Quote from: AFS on July 19, 2008, 08:40:43 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 19, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
The team that Armagh have announced is their strongest team. It highlights how serious Armagh are taking this Fermanagh team.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course Armagh are taking Fermanagh seriously, as they take all teams. Because B Mallon didn't line out against Down does this mean that Armagh didn't take them seriously?
Quote from: FermGael on July 19, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
This game will be won and lost between the two 45's. The simple way to stop Clarke and McDonnell is to stop/spoil the ball going into them. If we get the majority of procession around this sector, then we will win the game.
Didn't work for Down, why will it work for Fermanagh?
Fermanagh are a better team than Down and play a more defensive style of football than Down. We are well drilled in how to defend and if Armagh drop a man back, then Fermanagh will do the same(like down) but will have a hell of alot more experience of playing this system.
Your point is very valid about Kernan, Mallon etc. I think that if Armagh play an orthodox three man full forward line then Fermanagh could be in football. It may mean McCluskey having to move back to the corner and this would hurt Fermanagh from an attacking point of view.
As for Fermanagh being more physical than Armagh, i do not buy into that.
One memory that i have from the Derry game, is the Derry CHB(McCusker i think) going for a ball with Lyttle.
They went at it shoulder for shoulder and Lyttle still won the ball. We might not have the mirror muscles of the Armagh team but we will surprise you with our upper body strength.
The time for slabbering is near over. Fear Manach Abu
I have to agree with that FermGael. When have you ever seen any Fermanagh player shy away from the big hits? All the players have done the physical work in the gym so the physicality thing isn't an issue. That aside, Fermanagh will do well to avoid bringing the ball into contact situations, as this will play straight into Armaghs hands. If we play the open, fluid game that we have done all year Armagh, like Derry and Monaghan will struggle to contain our style of play.
Good luck to Fermanagh tomorrow - I think all neutrals will be cheering for them but I think Armagh will simply have too much for them all over the field. Hope I'm wrong.
Wrote an analysis of the game but left it on my laptop which i don't have! I'll post it after (if it comes true!) In a nutshell I felt Fermanagh had the capabilities to win the game, and if Armagh did win, it would certainly not be handed to them with an easy 4/5 point victory as some have suggested here. This is our best chance to win an Ulster and it could be a long time before we get a chance like it again. It is time to deliver. Armagh have been built up after beating one poor side, and a fair side. Apparently they have more mobility now because they could cope with Down. We will see. I think the teams lining out tomorrow are evenly matched throughout, with Armagh the better forwards and Fermanagh the better midfield. Defences are both strong. There is going to be nothing in it, and goals will be decisive.
Game of two halves.
Never over till the final whistle
QuoteThis is our best chance to win an Ulster and it could be a long time before we get a chance like it again. It is time to deliver.
This kind of thing is often said. If Fermanagh are as good as everyone else, with one of their best players out of action, and if they beat Monaghan and Derry fair and square, the first why should this not be of a number of Ulsters. We'll see in 13 hours!
fermanagh don't deserve to win ulster, they're terrible. i just dont get all this talk of the last time they played in an ulster final and talk about peter mcginnity and co...what in under jesus has this got to do with anything. i would be happy to never ever see fermanagh win anything just because of 2004 and their smugness to all things armagh since that...
tomorrow they meet the new force in armagh football...aka ciaran mckeever, andy mallon, ronan clarke, martin o'rourke, brian mallon, kieran toner, stephen kernan, charlie vernon- all major talent and relentless workers for the team....these boys dont shirk their responsibilities...
armagh by 8...
You sound like a Down aristocrat Abble, only with your orange and white glasses on!! or maybe youre just home with a feed of pints in ya and are ready to rumble
ok, it was the 2 bottles of lithuanian brewed svyturys ekstra, i hold my hands up
The start to what could be the greatest day of my life.
Its what sport is all about, its what life is all about
I'm generally one of those who plays down things - I wasnt on the pitch in Omagh, nor Croker in 2004, I was watching, controlling myself. I thought I hadn't been affected by the hype today either, but the butterflies in my stomach tell me otherwise. I actually feel sorry for just about every other county - they will never know what its like to win their first provincial title. Please God, I will. If it goes our way, I can't imagine the feeling ever being topped, I used to look at that boy who was crying when Tyrone lifted Sam thinking he was an awful eejit. He might well be, but now I understand where he was coming from - that much emotion has to come out some way.
The reasons for being 'plucky wee fermanagh' are well documented, but they have their advantages too. When I go in today, I'll know just about everyone there. I know of at least fiften people who are flying home from wherever to go to the game. The sense of belonging to the Fermanagh family is much greater than anywere else, and that gives days like today that added significance. Club v county isn't a debate that comes up in Fermanagh often - county is club. I hope to f**k we do it...
Fearmanach Abu!!
Quote from: haranguerer on July 20, 2008, 09:49:16 AM
The start to what could be the greatest day of my life.
Its what sport is all about, its what life is all about
I'm generally one of those who plays down things - I wasnt on the pitch in Omagh, nor Croker in 2004, I was watching, controlling myself. I thought I hadn't been affected by the hype today either, but the butterflies in my stomach tell me otherwise. I actually feel sorry for just about every other county - they will never know what its like to win their first provincial title. Please God, I will. If it goes our way, I can't imagine the feeling ever being topped, I used to look at that boy who was crying when Tyrone lifted Sam thinking he was an awful eejit. He might well be, but now I understand where he was coming from - that much emotion has to come out some way.
The reasons for being 'plucky wee fermanagh' are well documented, but they have their advantages too. When I go in today, I'll know just about everyone there. I know of at least fiften people who are flying home from wherever to go to the game. The sense of belonging to the Fermanagh family is much greater than anywere else, and that gives days like today that added significance. Club v county isn't a debate that comes up in Fermanagh often - county is club. I hope to f**k we do it...
Fearmanach Abu!!
Your story brings a tear to my eye ;D ;D ;D....but l8r on kid its dog eat dog remember that ;)
Armagh by 3
Go on the Bog men!
Good Luck Fear Manach...I hope you do it 8)
Is the match going to be shown live on the internet or is the BBC website with updates the only one?
Have done a good bit on armagh, plus done separate bets for them to win by 3-4 points and 5-6 points.
Can't see past them
Gormley is giving Sidbottom some slaggin on the commentary
Quote from: Square Ball on July 20, 2008, 02:13:34 PM
Gormley is giving Sidbottom some slaggin on the commentary
Proper order, f**k sidebottom comes out with some tripe.
Is it just me or does mcgrane always seem to take too many steps?
is the match online or do I have to keep refreshing the rte site?
Fermanagh, as much as I want them to win, are tough to watch.
When do they start kicking the ball.
Francie hit a pass there with his foot!!
:o
What is the world coming to?!
If they could take a little handpass to themselves instead of a solo they would never kick it.
Very hard to watch as a neutral!!!
What's the score?
BBC have it at 2 - 1 to fermanagh - surely it can't be that after 25 mins?
quote from RTE site
"Armagh cornerback Finian Moriarty gets forward but his SHIT drifts wide of the left upright".
Very low scoring at the beginning there pints, its 4-2 now to armagh
0-4 ; 0-2
25 min gone :o
cheers lads, sounds likea cracker :-\
not wanting to overstate the obvious, but it is difficult to see Fermanagh scoring more than 10pts. Goals aside that is
Goal for Armagh
I've never heard so many cliches from a commentator!
Goal finn mo, i had backed clarke f**k sake!!
1-4 to 0-2 Game over.
Dire to watch. Terrible in fact. Armagh will win another Ulster title, but football is the real loser here.
Our Nail Loney are you an Armagh man?
found a site showing the game for FREE Justin.TV click on sport
Live in armagh but my ma and da are from down so i was raised a down fan...
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 20, 2008, 02:33:33 PM
Goal finn mo, i had backed clarke f**k sake!!
Well if it's any consolation not many would have backed finn mo!
Na they only give prices for the forwards and midfielders... Woulda been 50/1 probably bigger actually seeing as mcgrane and toner were 25/1 33/1
Why did the bbc take the score down there for the last five mins or so??
brutal stuff. Does not resemble Gaelic football.
Yeah but it works and gets results, thats what matters at the end of the day
Cant see fermanagh coming back here, anyone else think they will? 9-2 they are in running...
As has been said, Fermanagh are doing well, but it's hard to see where the scores can come from.
Unless maybe they throw Owens in at FF and start launching high balls in - as Monaghan did with Corey in last year's final.
Work commitments making me miss this one, first for a few years.
HT analysis.
PLaying very well, Toner and McGrane are having a lot of joy. Toner is breaking froward to great effect. McDonnell kicked over a beauty and is having a good game, Clarke not so much but still decent.
MOR is having a cracker and is covering some ground, AK is doing the same and is proving a great link-up man.
Vernon is taking the wrong option and SK has not touched the ball once.
Armagh goal was one of their best in years.
Our Nail Loney
Hero Member
Posts: 1059
Re: Ulster Final 2008 - Armagh vs Fermanagh
« Reply #288 on: Today at 02:44:44 PM »
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Yeah but it works and gets results, thats what matters at the end of the day
Cant see fermanagh coming back here, anyone else think they will? 9-2 they are in running...
except if you have/want to watch it
Oh, and Sidebottom, yet again:
Bailieborough = County CAVAN
Brookeborough = County Fermanagh
How many times has he mad this mistake this year?!
I'm not condoning it though Joe, I obviously don't like watching it but they are not gonna change and it works.
MOR must be the hardest working footballer in ireland!
Gormley after Sidebottem had spoke for a while and asked Enda what he thought
" You mesmerized me, never have i heard so many silly cliches at once"
;D
game over :(
Owens unsurprisingly coming into ff.
Cant see him changing the reflection of the match much to be honest
He'll go and get a goal now!!!
corn why you not at the match??
Have to work later on.
MOR off injured.
FErmanagh scored!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No surprise to see SK coming off, very poor game in an very good season. Easily his worst game of the year.
Oisin on first outing this summer...
Yeah Kernan was totally anonymous, I f**king picked him as well in the starman thing on the irish news competition! Shows how much I know!!
Fermanagh goal!!!!!!!
Go on the bogmen
Ferm goal, "in the back of the onion bag"
Goal Fermanagh
What the f**k was Bellew at.
McDonnell responds with classy point.
Brilliant response from mcdonnell there. MOR is a big loss, the amount of work he does
how long is left?
what did bellew do?
23 mins pog
He let Maguire sneak in behind him for the fisted goal...
22mins left
Why did oisiin not hit that free?
Maybe it wasn't bellew but for Fermanagh goal defender plus Hearty decided to look at the ball.
Hope he took MOR off due to injury becuase iyt is far too early otherwise.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 20, 2008, 03:14:07 PM
Why did oisiin not hit that free?
Don't think he is fit to.
4 in it, can they do it?
Quote from: corn02 on July 20, 2008, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 20, 2008, 03:14:07 PM
Why did oisiin not hit that free?
Don't think he is fit to.
Why bring him on then!
McDermott up from fb to get a point 4 in it now
Fermanagh getting back to three points.
Francie looked slow there.
Spoke too soonj 14-year free missed.
shocking free missed by Keenan
Quote from: corn02 on July 20, 2008, 03:18:07 PM
Spoke too soonj 14-year free missed.
terrible free that one
14 yard frees really shouldnt be missed in senior county games!!
Ciaran McElroy with a super point there, three in it now corn!
great score from McIllroy
McDonnell will be the difference
Stevie is just class
McGrath with a class point there as well, Armagh need to stop this fermanagh wave
AK has made some amunt of unforced errors
bbc showing a bloody replay while ball is still in play >:(
Bad miss from brewster there, they deserved a score there some good play.
Amragh needa get a bit of composure.
Orangemen panicking big time.
Fermanagh actually believing they can win this now, seemed as if they didn't have any belief in the first half
Fermanagh having a good patch with lots of possesion - poor return on the scoreboard for all their dominance. Think they needed to take a couple of scores during that period and it'll kill them
how long's left now?
8mins plus injury time
Ferm need to be taking their points
Why the fcuk aren't Fermanagh taking their points?
Luck all with one team 7 left
Armagh should keep their cool, how many ulster medals were they saying they had? Experience will tell in the end
MOR back on, Vernon off thank f**k, didn't have a good game
MOR wins possession straight off
Oisin wins free, hits it himself, wide!!
4 and a half mins left plus stoppages
Armagh are doing what they did against Donegal last year. They could lose this yet.
Little with a free, 2 in it now. Bad lead, frmanagh gonna bomb balls in now.
2mins 45 seconds left and counting
2, come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 in it now!!
2 mins left
Squeaky bum time! 70 mins hit...
C'mon Fermanagh
Wide from stevie, f**k this is tense!!
wide ryaan keenan
couple hes missed!
FFs,
Thrown ball frmo little in very scorable position!
refs a twat
Very m uch deserved
f**k!!!!!!!!!
fully deserved
Draw
f**k sake!!
Delighted Fermanagh got the draw,If anything they should have won
Armagh were awful in the last 20mins
a lot better game in the last 20, very tense, have the bogmen blown it?
Fantastic comeback from Fermanagh, Armagh will not be relishing the replay.
Armagh were very lucky to get out with a draw in the end.
Draw!!!!
Fermanagh deserved the draw at the very least
I hope Fermanagh haven't left it behind them today, I'm sure Armagh won't play as bad again
Hell of a fight back, they looked dead and buried at 8 points down. Referee made some dubious decisions towards the end in favour of Armagh. Replay next Sunday.
How did that team from the first half do so badly in the second??
MOR make a difference?
Oisin did nothing, saying that they couldn't even get the ball up to the forwards in the last while
Quote from: blasmere on July 20, 2008, 03:42:36 PM
I hope Fermanagh haven't left it behind them today, I'm sure Armagh won't play as bad again
Armagh drop off like that in a lot of matches though. The difference was that Fermanagh were good enough to reel them in.
McHugh is right, Armagh won't win an All-Ireland with those tactics
Quote from: blasmere on July 20, 2008, 03:45:12 PM
McHugh is right, Armagh won't win an All-Ireland with those tactics
McHugh is an arse. Armagh stopped playing today, I think they will do enough next week to win it, though I would love to see Fermanagh win it. The team that beats Armagh will win this years All Ireland and I cant see too many teams with a game plan good enough to beat them.
Quote from: Down Gael on July 20, 2008, 03:47:44 PM
Quote from: blasmere on July 20, 2008, 03:45:12 PM
McHugh is right, Armagh won't win an All-Ireland with those tactics
McHugh is an arse. Armagh stopped playing today, I think they will do enough next week to win it, though I would love to see Fermanagh win it. The team that beats Armagh will win this years All Ireland and I cant see too many teams with a game plan good enough to beat them.
He can be, but he has been right about Armagh, never mind whoever beats them will win Sam, they won't beat Cork, Dublin, Galway or Kerry playing like that,
If they were to play like that I'd love for Mayo to get a crack at them - they'll improve though, but not enough to win Sam
Great fightback by Fermanagh. Played much better when they cast off the shackles of the 2 yard sideways handpassing system.
Fermanagh forwards were awful. How close do they need to be to goal before they shoot?
But fair play to them, very determined & deserved the draw.
Couple of points - Fermanagh deserved to win. Decision making and failure to even kill the ball were their downfall.
Clarke/ Mc Donnell superb Very few other performances of note. A. Kernan 2nd half far too casual in possession and easily turned over.
Bar two or three decisions at the end which could have been costly, referee was very good.
BBC commentary team as good as a circus. Dont know how Gormely keeps a straight face.
Sidebottom - O Rourke & Mc Donnell know each other intimately from college.
Tommy Mc Elroy scored the first point for the whole of Baillieborough & Fermanagh
Shane Mc Dermott Fermanaghs most capped player.
Dont get me started on that Kane character
Great fightback from Fermanagh. Hopefully they'll do it second time around. They really should have won it at the end - several missed opportunities.
Yeah bet keenan isn't feeling too good about that free at the minute!!
Fermanagh know how to beat Armagh now but I can't see Armagh letting this one go now.
Quote from: orangeman on July 20, 2008, 04:49:47 PM
Fermanagh know how to beat Armagh now but I can't see Armagh letting this one go now.
At the same time, it's hard to see Fermanagh falling so far behind the next day out. Today they'll have got rid of the nerves of the big occasion and should just be fired up for the replay.
Just back from Clones.
Armagh are very lucky to have another chance, even in the first half Fermanagh were dominant - but thankfully were afraid to shoot.
Yet again our midfield was missing. Regardless of whether we beat Fermanagh in the replay or not we'll not go much further unless we start to win a bit of ball around midfield.
I can only think that McDonnell though the game was won we he took MOR off, still at least he was big enough to throw him back on.
With him we won very little breaking ball, without him we won none.
We're very lucky to have another chance, but it's hard to see where we will get a midfield from at this stage (as we had none during the entire NFL).
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 20, 2008, 04:56:11 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 20, 2008, 04:49:47 PM
Fermanagh know how to beat Armagh now but I can't see Armagh letting this one go now.
At the same time, it's hard to see Fermanagh falling so far behind the next day out. Today they'll have got rid of the nerves of the big occasion and should just be fired up for the replay.
Armagh won't play as poorly again - have Armagh not got any other subs - take of Martin O'Rourke and put him back on again ???????
Was there a bit of an incident with one of the armagh subs? might have been mckenna from crossmaglen?
Anyone suggesting there's something wrong with Armagh's tactics should be forced to rationalise exactly why.
It is an absolute testament to their system, to the effectiveness of their defence, to the efficiency of their forward line, that they can still be so competitive despite getting annihalated at midfield against Down, and now against Fermanagh. Most teams winning olny 30-35% of midfield possession would end up losing by double figures.
The big question for McDonnell is in whether the likes of McKenna or Lavery would offer more potential for clean possession than the present incumbents. It does look like McGrane is done - aside ffrom lack of clean possession, he is offering less and less in open play, while Toner looks more like an effective partner than a midfield leader. Despite Fermanagh's tenacity, drive and belief, if the Orchard men can win just 5-10% more ball at midfield in the replay, they'll win it with a bit to spare.
That saying, hopefully they don't :)
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 20, 2008, 05:01:08 PM
Was there a bit of an incident with one of the armagh subs? might have been mckenna from crossmaglen?
The ball went over the line and he seemed to get tangled uo with one of the Fermanagh players.
On a complete aside, was Fermanagh's goal a square ball - a guy beside me was arguing that it was. Any opinions ?
Technically it was a square ball as he entered the square before the ball did, if only marginally.
In reality though, it is better that goals are given in these circumstances. The square ball rule was designed to prevent big lumps standing on top of the goal, while Fermanagh's goal today was a result of a player timing his run to the ball better than his opponents.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 20, 2008, 05:19:48 PM
Technically it was a square ball as he entered the square before the ball did, if only marginally.
In reality though, it is better that goals are given in these circumstances. The square ball rule was designed to prevent big lumps standing on top of the goal, while Fermanagh's goal today was a result of a player timing his run to the ball better than his opponents.
So it was a square ball - the guy was right then ? .
Surely they should do away with the square ball and save arguments.
Yes, technically it was a square ball. But technically it is also a foul if you carry a ball more than four steps without soloing. If referees always applied the letter of the law instead of common sense, our games would be unwatchable.
The square ball rule does serve a purpose. If it didn't exist, football could easily evolve into a game where you just find the biggest lump of lad in your parish/county, get him to stand on top of the keeper and stick ball in on top of him.
Jimmy White just seemed to stand in the middle today and blow what he saw - I thought he was good and not throwing cards around like confetti. I thought he brought Fermanagh into it a bit giving handy enough frees.
Have to say that it was an awful game of football but then I didn't expect it to be an exhibitionof free flowing and free scoring football. 2 well prepared, organised and smart teams went at it today hammer and tong though and for excitement alone I enjoyed it.
Both teams seem to have a great work ethic and selfless play is at a maximum with both of them and I think they will both be hard stopped come the business end of the championship. Armagh definitely have to sort out their midfield but if the can do that then they will be a serious force. Fermanagh need a free taker and then they will be hard to stop as well. I hope Fermanagh go on and do it now next week as I think they have proven they are more than capable of winning this Ulster Championship.
Special mention to my clubmate Ciaran McElroy who ran himself into the ground and got 2 of the best points today. I hope he can get a winner's medal next week now.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 20, 2008, 05:25:26 PM
Yes, technically it was a square ball. But technically it is also a foul if you carry a ball more than four steps without soloing. If referees always applied the letter of the law instead of common sense, our games would be unwatchable.
Indeed. And Clarke's goal wouldn't have been either.
Munster, Connacht & Ulster have all gave us Provincial Finals to enjoy. Fair play to Armagh & Fermanagh. Can't help wonder what happened to Armagh for the last 15 minutes though.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 20, 2008, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 20, 2008, 05:25:26 PM
Yes, technically it was a square ball. But technically it is also a foul if you carry a ball more than four steps without soloing. If referees always applied the letter of the law instead of common sense, our games would be unwatchable.
Indeed. And Clarke's goal wouldn't have been either.
Why so ?
Just back in the door. What a comeback.
Fermanagh totally dominated the midfield yet could not penetrate the Armagh defence in the first half. We kept taking the wrong options and moving the ball from one side of the field to the other side, without actually going anywhere.Armagh played 13 men behind the ball and we could not break them down. Then they hit McDonnell and Clarke on the break and were clinical
We will forget about the first 5 minutes of the second half, terrible from Fermanagh to see a ball kicked into the goal keepers hand and Armagh take the ball and place it into the back of the net. We could not handle McDonnell and Clarke. Needs to be sorted for the next day.
After the goal we started to run at Armagh. Take the player on in the tackle and move it at pace.
8 points down and we looked completely out of it.
Then Marty McGrath, Ryan McCluskey, Tommy McElroy and Mark Lyttle stood up and dragged Fermanagh back into the game.Ciaran McElroy kicked a couple of great points.
Maybe we took the wrong options in the last 10 minutes but after 5 minutes of the second half, i would have taken a draw. Armagh looked a bit nervy. Then we got our bit of good fortune. The goal was a square ball. Absolutely no doubt. I think if you watch the Sunday game tonight, you might find there were 2 Fermanagh men in the square. Then Fermanagh took over and just put Armagh on the back foot. Fermanagh deserved the win and this will bring them on another bit for next Sunday. 7 down against Derry, 8 against Armagh and yet we still are not beaten. Sign of a good team if you ask me. You only have to look at what happened Wexford against the Dubs to see how things could have turned out for Fermanagh.
Now the players have their first Ulster final out of the way, the next one should not be as bad.
Fair play to O'Rourke. Doherty scored the winner and won us a vital free. Need to get the free taking sorted. I would be tempted to start Owens at FF the next day. Francie certainly did not seem to enjoy marking him and he caused alot of headaches for the Armagh full back line. McCabe is an impact sub and i wonder will Glentoran make him available the next day. Would also be very tempted to start Tom Brewster or Matty Keenan. We need a left footed free taker(and a right footed one too).
If Fermanagh would have been 8 points up with 30 sh minutes left to go, then we would have left it behind us. We would have missed the boat. But we didn't. We fought to the end, the last kick of the game and showed bucketloads of character. We will win the next day
Fermanagh's freetaking was atrocious - do you anticipate many changes to the Armagh line up ?
Well done Fermanagh, you probably deserved to win today. The second Armagh goal came at a bad time, had it been 10 mins later there would not have been time for Fermanagh to recover. Instead Armagh switched off to and when Fermanagh came at them Armagh lost its composure to some extent. There were a several turnovers by Fermanagh forwards when Armagh backs dithered, whereas Fermanagh were able to come up the field largely unhindered by Armagh forwards tackling. The Armagh forward line looked dangerous from play, but they have to get the ball and Armagh had little ability to win the dirty ball in midfield, and none when MOR was off. This partly reflects Fermanagh's workrate, as they out Armaghed Armagh to some extent. Armagh had no great success with frees either. Fermanagh can only grown in confidence, but hopefully this was a kick up the ar5e for Armagh. Hearty would need to shape up and AK would need to hang on the ball for the replay.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 20, 2008, 06:46:05 PM
Well done Fermanagh, you probably deserved to win today. The second Armagh goal came at a bad time, had it been 10 mins later there would not have been time for Fermanagh to recover. Instead Armagh switched off to and when Fermanagh came at them Armagh lost its composure to some extent. There were a several turnovers by Fermanagh forwards when Armagh backs dithered, whereas Fermanagh were able to come up the field largely unhindered by Armagh forwards tackling. The Armagh forward line looked dangerous from play, but they have to get the ball and Armagh had little ability to win the dirty ball in midfield, and none when MOR was off. This partly reflects Fermanagh's workrate, as they out Armaghed Armagh to some extent. Armagh had no great success with frees either. Fermanagh can only grown in confidence, but hopefully this was a kick up the ar5e for Armagh. Hearty would need to shape up and AK would need to hang on the ball for the replay.
[/b]
Kernan was toying with them form early on - I think he showed Fermanagh little respect but I'd say it'll be different next week.
brilliant game and good atmosphere at Clones, but does anyone know when tickets will be on sale for the replay?
Quote from: miss_anon on July 20, 2008, 07:29:24 PM
brilliant game and good atmosphere at Clones, but does anyone know when tickets will be on sale for the replay?
They'll go out through the clubs as usual during the week - can't see there being 34,000 there next Sunday though !
Quote from: thewobbler on July 20, 2008, 05:14:44 PM
Anyone suggesting there's something wrong with Armagh's tactics should be forced to rationalise exactly why.
It is an absolute testament to their system, to the effectiveness of their defence, to the efficiency of their forward line, that they can still be so competitive despite getting annihalated at midfield against Down, and now against Fermanagh. Most teams winning olny 30-35% of midfield possession would end up losing by double figures.
Wobbler, if Fermanagh had anyone with a bit of finishing class up front, Armagh would have be wiped out. It usually happens down the line in Croke Park.
I don't buy into the argument that Fermanagh left this behind. I think they're simply a better side. They were lucky to get a draw after an atrocious first half and chronic finishing throughout. Armagh have a couple of class players and plenty of experience but Fermanagh are more rounded from 1-15. Too many Armagh players go missing when the temperature is turned up.
Fermanagh were announced as Ulster Champions in Croke Park today for about 10 mins , 2.08 to 1.08 (big cheer)Until someone got the actual score :(
If Fermanagh had a reliable free taker they wuda won easy today
How long is ciaran o reilly out for? Cuda used him today!!
Thought we completely got away with it today. We built up an 8 point lead without playing particularly well and then threw it away. I thought we were lucky to get a draw as Fermanagh had both the possession and the scoring chances to win the match. In the second half, Fermanagh kicked a number of balls in around the square when where in scorable positions. There seemed to a lack of willingness to take a shot from many Fermanagh players. They also kicked too many balls in the goalkeepers hands.
As for Armagh, its fairly obvious where we went wrong - absolutely destroyed at midfield. No matter who was breaking the ball down, Fermanagh were winning possession. There's a serious lack of mobility in the Armagh midfield but the half forward and half back lines have to take some responsibility for the way we ceded so much possession. Also felt we went far too negative in the last 20 minutes and tried to ape Fermanagh's style. At one stage we had 13 men in our own half. Fair enough you can argue that Fermanagh drew those men back but I think we'd have been far better off leaving at least 4 forwards in their positions at all times. If their markers go forward, there's a great chance of a quick counter attack if play breaks down. Instead we ended up taking the ball into contact far too often in our own half back line and Aaron Kernan in particular gave away some costly possession.
The one positive was that when we played the direct ball, Clarke and McDonnell were well on top of their men. Stevie in particular had a great game scoring a few lovely points. Pity about his free taking though. Intercounty teams shouldn't be missing frees from 30 yards out. Oisin wasn't any better with the free he got however. Thought Brian Mallon had a decent enough game - he was very effective with the ball he got.
Very poor performance but hopefully this is the scare we needed. The midfield really needs to be looked at after two poor displays in a row. Also - why didn't hearty try a few shorter kicks when we were being so badly dominated? If we can improve our share of possession at midfield, I think we should have enough to win the replay.
Quote from: orangeman on July 20, 2008, 06:37:44 PM
Fermanagh's freetaking was atrocious - do you anticipate many changes to the Armagh line up ?
Probably not , but I would like to see Donaghy replace Francie who doesn't seem to be the confident player he was; he looked particularly unhappy under the few high balls that came in. I'm not not sure that Vernon is cutting it; for all that he is a big strong man he is a bit too delicate when contesting 50/50 balls, he is too easily dispossessed and is prone to unforced errors and to taking wrong options. Oisin is, on today's display, not half the player he was. I'd also share the concerns voiced on here about midfield but would be very slow to start without McGrane. Hearty kicked his usual "one over the sideline" today again and at a time when Fermanagh had up a good head of steam and were heading for the draw! Clarke and McDonnell continue to be a class act even with a relatively poor supply of ball.
Can anyone explain the substitution of M O'Rourke; our supply of loose ball dried up after he was taken off?
fermanagh need to switch frees from keenan
they will benefit from experience of playing in a final
i thought ak should have been taken off - id imagine big joe wont have been too impressed with him today either
Quote from: FermGael on July 20, 2008, 06:27:25 PM
7 down against Derry, 8 against Armagh and yet we still are not beaten. Sign of a good team if you ask me. You only have to look at what happened Wexford against the Dubs to see how things could have turned out for Fermanagh. Now the players have their first Ulster final out of the way, the next one should not be as bad.
i hopy youre right but you can only make so many comebacks - some day the lucky break (square ball goal) wont go your way
fermanagh got to ao semi by having a go and thats their only hope next sunday
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 20, 2008, 08:18:00 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 20, 2008, 06:37:44 PM
Fermanagh's freetaking was atrocious - do you anticipate many changes to the Armagh line up ?
Probably not , but I would like to see Donaghy replace Francie who doesn't seem to be the confident player he was; he looked particularly unhappy under the few high balls that came in. I'm not not sure that Vernon is cutting it; for all that he is a big strong man he is a bit too delicate when contesting 50/50 balls, he is too easily dispossessed and is prone to unforced errors and to taking wrong options. Oisin is, on today's display, not half the player he was. I'd also share the concerns voiced on here about midfield but would be very slow to start without McGrane. Hearty kicked his usual "one over the sideline" today again and at a time when Fermanagh had up a good head of steam and were heading for the draw! Clarke and McDonnell continue to be a class act even with a relatively poor supply of ball.
Can anyone explain the substitution of M O'Rourke; our supply of loose ball dried up after he was taken off?
I thought Francie did what he had to do today and but for him and Hearty near the end, it could have been over for Armagh - I wouldn't dump Francie just yet !
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 20, 2008, 08:18:00 PM
Can anyone explain the substitution of M O'Rourke; our supply of loose ball dried up after he was taken off?
I can only assume that McDonnell though the game was won, as there was no other reason why you could justify taking him off.
If Kieran McKinney doesn't start the next day then he may as well leave the panel. Hearty was at fault for the goal (he took a step back), he then fumbled another high ball that almost ended up in the net as well as the various kick out blunders mentioned above.
I think the reason that AK lost so much ball in contact today was that when he was breaking forward with it he has no pass available (as we had everyone behind the ball) and so had to hold onto it for longer that necessary.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 20, 2008, 08:38:44 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 20, 2008, 08:18:00 PM
Can anyone explain the substitution of M O'Rourke; our supply of loose ball dried up after he was taken off?
I can only assume that McDonnell though the game was won, as there was no other reason why you could justify taking him off.
If Kieran McKinney doesn't start the next day then he may as well leave the panel. Hearty was at fault for the goal (he took a step back), he then fumbled another high ball that almost ended up in the net as well as the various kick out blunders mentioned above.
I think the reason that AK lost so much ball in contact today was that when he was breaking forward with it he has no pass available (as we had everyone behind the ball) and so had to hold onto it for longer that necessary.
It said on the radio that he had a tight hamstring at half time - they decided to keep him on - then when the goal went in and Armagh were 8 points up, he was taken off as a precaution and thrown back in as the game started to slip away.
Attrocious last 20 minutes from Armagh. Too many players just went missing, too many dithered on the ball, and the team in general seemed to go into an uncharacteristic panic mode. Granted, Fermanagh were throwing everything at them, and surprisingly, Armagh had no leadership to calm the jets and gets things together.
Several Armagh players were far to lethargic on the ball, most notably Hearty and AK. Hearty is a fine keeper, but has always had a touch of the Grobbelaar's about him. You just don't know what is going to happen under a high ball.
Although the game looked as if it should be over at 8 points up, management were hasty in taking off MOR.
Armagh are going nowhere fast without a freetaker of note. Stevie is just not doing the business from frees, his hit rate is well below par for this level. He should have these duties removed from him IF there is anyone else capable of doing better.
As for Fermanagh, great spirit and comeback. Buy largely, their forwards are lacking in a real quality finisher. Their free taking was abysmal and as a result they are going no where fast. They should have won by 3 or 4 to spare today.
As for the replay, if Armagh can sort out midfield (big if), then they will win next Sunday due to getting the fast ball into Clarke and McDonnell. It is all to play for as both teams should feel that they left the game behind today.....Armagh because they squandered an 8 point lead, and Fermanagh because of their forward's inability to score from play and the lack of a freetaker.
A toss of a coin....
Quote from: balladmaker on July 20, 2008, 08:46:27 PM
Attrocious last 20 minutes from Armagh. Too many players just went missing, too many dithered on the ball, and the team in general seemed to go into an uncharacteristic panic mode. Granted, Fermanagh were throwing everything at them, and surprisingly, Armagh had no leadership to calm the jets and gets things together.
Several Armagh players were far to lethargic on the ball, most notably Hearty and AK. Hearty is a fine keeper, but has always had a touch of the Grobbelaar's about him. You just don't know what is going to happen under a high ball.
Although the game looked as if it should be over at 8 points up, management were hasty in taking off MOR.
Armagh are going nowhere fast without a freetaker of note. Stevie is just not doing the business from frees, his hit rate is well below par for this level. He should have these duties removed from him IF there is anyone else capable of doing better.
As for Fermanagh, great spirit and comeback. Buy largely, their forwards are lacking in a real quality finisher. Their free taking was abysmal and as a result they are going no where fast. They should have won by 3 or 4 to spare today.
As for the replay, if Armagh can sort out midfield (big if), then they will win next Sunday due to getting the fast ball into Clarke and McDonnell. It is all to play for as both teams should feel that they left the game behind today.....Armagh because they squandered an 8 point lead, and Fermanagh because of their forward's inability to score from play and the lack of a freetaker.
A toss of a coin....
Is Oisin Mc Conville, the highest points scorer in Ulster Championship history ( mostly through frees ) not on the panel - I believe he came on today and missed a free ?
Quote from: orangeman on July 20, 2008, 06:12:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 20, 2008, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 20, 2008, 05:25:26 PM
Yes, technically it was a square ball. But technically it is also a foul if you carry a ball more than four steps without soloing. If referees always applied the letter of the law instead of common sense, our games would be unwatchable.
Indeed. And Clarke's goal wouldn't have been either.
Why so ?
I believe he took 5 steps. It was marginal, but that's what we're talking about.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 20, 2008, 09:02:04 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 20, 2008, 06:12:28 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 20, 2008, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 20, 2008, 05:25:26 PM
Yes, technically it was a square ball. But technically it is also a foul if you carry a ball more than four steps without soloing. If referees always applied the letter of the law instead of common sense, our games would be unwatchable.
Indeed. And Clarke's goal wouldn't have been either.
Why so ?
I believe he took 5 steps. It was marginal, but that's what we're talking about.
What did you think of the ref today ? He must have been good - no real complaints voiced so far ?
QuoteWhat did you think of the ref today ? He must have been good - no real complaints voiced so far ?
The only thing I would say was that he gave a free to Fermanagh for Armagh taking a free short. No arguements with the decision as it was far too short but there were similar instances both before and after when Fermanagh hit frees much too short and weren't penalised. Its the lack of consistency which is really frustrating. I think its a silly rule to be honest but its in the rulebook and should be enforced consistently.
This game was a carbon copy of the Sligo match in 2002, we had the match won and let it slip and in the end were lucky to get a draw. At least we have a chance to address some glaring problems from our previous two outings. Midfield is a major concern, which it has been all year and in the absence of Lavery I don't think we have a quick fix to that problem. How Aaron Kernan stayed on as long as he did was a mystery, he's had many great days in the Armagh shirt but for whatever reason he was having an off day and needed to be hauled off with an able replacement in Donaghy warming up for a long time.
There may be an argument whether the Fermanagh goal was square ball but for me the more important point was how poor (yet again!) Paul Hearty was. He started pointing the finger at few of his defenders but he has no-one else to blame but himself, seems to be that we gift teams whatever goals are scored against us.
Can't fault the ref at all, thought he was very brave at the end in blowing up Little for a blatant dive.
The replay will be a chance for the team to redeem themselves and move away from the age old problem of being overly-defensive when in the ascendancy.
Quote from: mackers on July 20, 2008, 09:34:17 PM
This game was a carbon copy of the Sligo match in 2002, we had the match won and let it slip and in the end were lucky to get a draw. At least we have a chance to address some glaring problems from our previous two outings. Midfield is a major concern, which it has been all year and in the absence of Lavery I don't think we have a quick fix to that problem. How Aaron Kernan stayed on as long as he did was a mystery, he's had many great days in the Armagh shirt but for whatever reason he was having an off day and needed to be hauled off with an able replacement in Donaghy warming up for a long time.
There may be an argument whether the Fermanagh goal was square ball but for me the more important point was how poor (yet again!) Paul Hearty was. He started pointing the finger at few of his defenders but he has no-one else to blame but himself, seems to be that we gift teams whatever goals are scored against us.
Can't fault the ref at all, thought he was very brave at the end in blowing up Little for a blatant dive.
The replay will be a chance for the team to redeem themselves and move away from the age old problem of being overly-defensive when in the ascendancy.
He couldn't have taken both Kernans off for God's sake now could he ? ;)
Great Match ,two good teams looking forward to the replay
Where is Ciaran O'Reilly for Fermanagh? He's a right and handy free taker. Presumably he's not on the panel?
QuoteIs Oisin Mc Conville, the highest points scorer in Ulster Championship history ( mostly through frees ) not on the panel - I believe he came on today and missed a free ?
Yes, this is correct.....what's your point?
Look's like Oisin has been out for lunch with big Joe a few times :-\ :-\
Quote from: 5 Sams on July 20, 2008, 10:53:54 PM
Look's like Oisin has been out for lunch with big Joe a few times :-\ :-\
Yes that was very apparent in the interview afterwards. I blame the maltesers.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 20, 2008, 09:55:20 PM
Where is Ciaran O'Reilly for Fermanagh? He's a right and handy free taker. Presumably he's not on the panel?
Ciaran is out for the season with a serious enough knee injury. We missed him badly today. I would expect Tom Brewster or Mattie Keenan to start next Sunday to take frees. I honestly don't think Fermanagh missed their chance today. If anything they will benefit from the experience of playing in an Ulster final. You could argue that Armagh took their foot of the pedal which allowed Fermanagh back into the game but strangely being 8 points down helped Fermanagh. They knew they had nothing to lose and went at the last 30 mins with 100% effort and commitment. Armagh are over reliant on Steven McDonnell. They would be lost without him. He is a class act, some of his points today were outstanding. Fermanagh have traditionally struggled in the forward department. We just don't put up big scorelines. Some of our free taking was shocking but at the end of the day no guy goes out to miss easy frees. It is something I'm sure Malachy O'Rourke will work on during the week.
I could be wrong here but I think Fermanagh out numbered the Armagh fans today which was great to see. I can't see there being 34,000 at the replay next week. A lot of the Fermanagh support was made up of exiled gaels who made long journeys home for the game. I would think 20,000 - 25,000 would be the realistic attendance for next week when you also take into consideration that replay crowds usually decrease.
You wait 26 years for an Ulster final appearance and then you get two in the space of 7 days!! No complaints from me :)
The atmosphere at the game and in Fermanagh in general was and is out of this world.
We are truly blessed to have such great games where every single pass, kick, drop, pick-up miss etc is crucial. 35,000 people and thousands more on TV were treated to a fantastic specticle
Quote from: Gold on July 20, 2008, 11:41:44 PM
The atmosphere at the game and in Fermanagh in general was and is out of this world.
We are truly blessed to have such great games where every single pass, kick, drop, pick-up miss etc is crucial. 35,000 people and thousands more on TV were treated to a fantastic specticle
It was only in the second half when Fermanagh got the goal that the game really sprung to life!
I think Armagh have alot more to put right this week than Fermanagh!
That last 15 minutes Armagh looked leaderless and out on their feet.
With Clarke and Mc Donnell in the form they are in Armagh could run riot, but without ball they will do feck all.
Fermanagh must have won 70% breaking ball and if they can get anywhere near this figure next week, cant see them being so wasteful in attack.
Referee made the game an enjoyable spectacle.
Quote from: Gold on July 20, 2008, 11:41:44 PM
The atmosphere at the game and in Fermanagh in general was and is out of this world.
We are truly blessed to have such great games where every single pass, kick, drop, pick-up miss etc is crucial. 35,000 people and thousands more on TV were treated to a fantastic specticle
The first half was absolutely atrocious.
Should have been beaten, very little doubt about it. Midfield while not great, is not the biggest problem, breakball is. Fermanagh at every kickout seemed to have at least one or two more men in the mix and this comes from the role that AOR plays. I said it 2 or 3 months ago that the role he plays is a luxury that better teams will exploit it if they can play the extra man effectively and Fermanagh obviuosly can(and that is not a criticism of AOR, but the role). I have yet to see Armagh's half backs in the mix for break balls, Fermanagh's half backs and half forwards seem to be mobile enough to compete in both teams' kickouts.
Armagh's substitutions didn't work, the one substitution that should have been made wasn't, Brendan Donaghy for AK, AK and SK were both brutal, the half forward line was non-exisitent again (MOR was the best performer but well short of his NFL standard). Vernon and Mallon will be lucky to keep their places, but the HF options are limited.
For the replay Mcdonnell has to show ruthlessness, Hearty, AK, Vernon, Mallon should all be looking over their shoulders. (I would have to give SK the benefit of the doubt on the strength of his first 2 games).
Maybe we've got the kick up the arse that Kerry can get and get away with but I dont think we'll win the replay. I think our limitations were exposed, at the start of the year I thought an Ulster was possible and an AI a very very long shot, we are a team in transition whether McDonnell likes to acknowledge it or not.
Just finished watching the game there again and to be honest I feel a lot better now than I did coming out of the ground. For me Armagh didnt deserve to lose today and lead from the 21st minute until 3 minutes into the 2 minutes of injury time that were to be played and during that time Fermanagh didnt have too many guilt edge chances to take the lead (a few though to cut gaps or bring themselves level). That said a lot of players that have been very good this year had very quiet games I thought C McKeever was as annonymous as I have ever seen him and Charles and the two Kernans where far from their best. If those 4 improve for next day I think we would have a very good chance. Also a strange thing to note whilst at the game I thought McGrane was completely outplayed but watching on the tv it seemed he just lacked support from half backs and half forwards. Hopefully that will change next day. Also although in hindsight I think MOR coming off was a catalyst in the game at the time it happened I wasnt surprised to see the change made as I felt he was giving away cheap ball. Again at the game it seemed we won nothing in midfield after he went off but from the tv it seems we won the next 2 breaking balls in midfield and in fact won 4 breaks and 2 clean catches at midfield in his abscence (Armagh finished with 5 clean catches and 8 breaks won at midfield).
As always a quick word on the ref. During the game today I thought he had a very good game as good as any ref ive seen in quite some time save for the complaint TAC made about the inconsistency in relation to short frees which somewhat blotted his copybook. On the tv however it seemed that he got a lot of what were arguably crucial decisions wrong namely the square ball for the goal, the 4 minutes of injury time and the hand pass he gave as a throw right at the death. That said no referee is perfect and I think he deserves to get the replay. Anyone but Bannon
All that said Fermanagh are a superb team and will be very difficult to beat next day and its a game im looking forward to.
Any word on the replay?
Next Sunday stephenite not sure what time though.
sorry AFS to quote you "wouldn't be for throwing Donaghy in at the deep end just yet) and McKinney would struggle under high ball too. "
i think heart is an absolute disaster under the high ball ... never forget cross v e. ciaran in x , he shit the bags with a 5' 6'' lad comin in. he always takes his eye off the ball no matter size of man comin in
as for donaghy in at the deep end.....laughable.......how he got took off again down i'll never know...he was playin a stormer
if armagh play like they can and don't play like they're scared of fermanagh next day we'll be ok....IE play the 6 up front !!!!
if only the game had off lasted 3 more minutes the whoile of armagh would be scrapping their asses of the pavement today as fermanagh were overall the better team. fact
Quote from: screenexile on July 21, 2008, 02:21:25 AM
Next Sunday stephenite not sure what time though.
Next sunday @ 3:00pm @ clones
Poor game of football, last 20 minutes provided great excitement though. Ref robbed Fermanagh. Armagh are no better than Tyrone this year ... or any year. They are no closer to Sam than Tyrone at the moment. All to play for. if Armagh win the next day it will be the second time in 4 yeas that officialdom has give Armagh an Ulster championship final.
Quote from: AFS on July 21, 2008, 12:15:14 AM
On Fermanagh, this isn't a compliment nor a criticism, but they really take the blanket defense/ negative gameplan to new levels. When Armagh and Tyrone first started with this tactic they at least left 3 men in the opposition half when defending, Fermanagh at most times leave only 1. Their sheer numbers in defence make it extremely difficult to break down. Its mass defense then mass attack with no kick passing whatsoever. The reason that its effective is that they funnel everyone back and forward at such speed. Their fantastic fitness levels mean that they're able to do this all game long. Its absolutely awful to watch though, and it makes the argument for reducing the game to 13 a side very compelling.
An Armagh man complaining about blanket defence. Pot, kettle and black come to mind.
Armagh played 13 men behind the ball and hit Fermanagh on the break. In the first half Armagh constantly played 13 men in their own half. I have no problem with this tactic but an Armagh man whinging about it. We must be doing something right
Quote from: rrhf on July 21, 2008, 08:57:17 AM
Poor game of football, last 20 minutes provided great excitement though. Ref robbed Fermanagh. Armagh are no better than Tyrone this year ... or any year. They are no closer to Sam than Tyrone at the moment. All to play for. if Armagh win the next day it will be the second time in 4 yeas that officialdom has give Armagh an Ulster championship final.
What are you blabbering on about rrhf, 2nd Ulster in 4 years that officialdom have given to Armagh, Explain?
Quote from: Abble on July 21, 2008, 02:41:48 AM
sorry AFS to quote you "wouldn't be for throwing Donaghy in at the deep end just yet) and McKinney would struggle under high ball too. "
i think heart is an absolute disaster under the high ball ... never forget cross v e. ciaran in x , he shit the bags with a 5' 6'' lad comin in. he always takes his eye off the ball no matter size of man comin in
as for donaghy in at the deep end.....laughable.......how he got took off again down i'll never know...he was playin a stormer
if armagh play like they can and don't play like they're scared of fermanagh next day we'll be ok....IE play the 6 up front !!!!
Hearty has always been dodgy under the high ball and distribution is suspect.
Francie is a spent force at this level
Quote2nd Ulster in 4 years that officialdom have given to Armagh
Considering that the official allowed a goal for Fermanagh resulting from a square ball, you cannot say that he did Armagh any favours on balance.
Ach ffs down be entertaining that rrhf clown.
One positive thing that may come out of yesterday is that Armagh will be absolutely disgusted with themselves this morning while Fermanagh will have some sense of satisfaction, probably a good position for us to be planning for a replay.
If Vernon starts the next day he should start at CHF and compete in MF, it seems to me that thus far he has been told to stay out of the MF exchanges.
What was that clown Gallagher at yesterday, He wouldnt shake Stevies hand b4 the game and was mouthing in his ear all day, waving his arms at the crowd and all that, someone from Fermanagh would need to have a wee word in his ear,
And just when im in the mood for complaining, i thought the sportmanship from a huge amount of fermanagh fans was a disgrace, There is nothing as bad as someone taking a free kick and getting booed from the opposition fans, Jasus i hate that
Quote from: bennydorano on July 21, 2008, 12:30:49 AM
Should have been beaten, very little doubt about it. Midfield while not great, is not the biggest problem, breakball is. Fermanagh at every kickout seemed to have at least one or two more men in the mix and this comes from the role that AOR plays. I said it 2 or 3 months ago that the role he plays is a luxury that better teams will exploit it if they can play the extra man effectively and Fermanagh obviuosly can(and that is not a criticism of AOR, but the role). I have yet to see Armagh's half backs in the mix for break balls, Fermanagh's half backs and half forwards seem to be mobile enough to compete in both teams' kickouts.
Armagh's substitutions didn't work, the one substitution that should have been made wasn't, Brendan Donaghy for AK, AK and SK were both brutal, the half forward line was non-exisitent again (MOR was the best performer but well short of his NFL standard). Vernon and Mallon will be lucky to keep their places, but the HF options are limited.
For the replay Mcdonnell has to show ruthlessness, Hearty, AK, Vernon, Mallon should all be looking over their shoulders. (I would have to give SK the benefit of the doubt on the strength of his first 2 games).
Maybe we've got the kick up the arse that Kerry can get and get away with but I dont think we'll win the replay. I think our limitations were exposed, at the start of the year I thought an Ulster was possible and an AI a very very long shot, we are a team in transition whether McDonnell likes to acknowledge it or not.
Excellent post, benny, on reflection it was the breaking ball area and not midfield as such that cost us. McGrane and Toner have to expect more from their HBs and HFs (thought Toner was Armagh's best player besides Stevie).
A one point win yesterday would have been a hollow victory and I would expect a much improved performance next Sunday. In 2002 when we did the same against Sligo, the team picked themselves up and kicked on, we'll see whether this team has that in them now.
Big test for McDonnell now as he has Armagh's excellent record in replays to extend with some major issues to address before Sunday.
Two years in a row now we have been victim in the Ulster Championship due to an illegitimate goal which was clearly a square ball. I am convinced that last year would have turned out very different had we beaten Donegal, which we would have done with an alert umpire.
Isn't it team the microscope focussed on the shortcomings of umpires instead of referees? I mean how hard can it be to discern whether a ball is over the bar or wide or whether a man is in the square or not, when you are permanently stationed next to the posts ffs >:(
Also anyone else thing that the Fermanagh goalkeeper was a complete maggot for baiting Stevie constantly in the first half?. I also heard he spat at Mc Donnell which I hope is false?
Could have lost, but to still be in the game after completely shutting off is still a good thing in my book.
In defence Paul was a bit suspect under the high ball and was lucky on the occassion that it hit his or Francies legs. The defence had been doing well as a defensive unit until the last 15 minutes. We started losing in the middle of the field and then the pressure on the defence was immense. MOR going off was a key part of this but also the McGrane blew out of steam. Once the ball was coming into the Fermanagh forward line as often as it was there was only ever going to be one outcome.
The half forward line was poor yesterday and I think that Mallon showed that he is still not up to match pace yet. He was slower in his reactions. Charlie Vernon showed a lot of naivety and when thongs needed to be cooled down they didn't have the wherewithall to do that. SK was very quiet and looked very nervous on the ball. Paddy McK looked hungery when he came on and may have forced his way back into the starting team for the replay.
The thing is though, that for all the platitudes going top Fermanagh and the criticism of Armagh the reality is that for 50 minutes of the game Armagh bossed it. They might not have had the scores on the scoreboard but they were the dominant team. Even when Fermanagh were making the comeback Armagh seemed to be able to match them score for score and even after the goal they Armagh hit an excellent point to keep the gap. I actually think that they were nervous, that they didn't want to be the team that let Fermanagh win their first Ulster and consequently went into preservation mode and that does not suit them. The need to take control of the game to suit their style and when they do that they are hard to stop.
Yesterday another MF should have gone in alongside the McGrane and Toner with 15 minutes left. Put a line of big men across the middle of the park and as the French General at Verdun said "Ils ne passeront pas", but that did not happen.
In the replay, the only change would be McKeever in for either Vernon or Mallon, probably Mallon but if changes need to be made they have to be done early and decisively. I believe they will win the replay as I do not think Fermanagh can add much more to their game from yesterday while Armagh have a lot of lessons learned.
Mc Donnell the footballer was hot yesterday, Mc Donnell the manager had a stinker, ran the bench and nearly cost Armagh an Ulster title. The Goalkeepers duel with MC Donnell was embarassing.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 21, 2008, 10:45:51 AM
Could have lost, but to still be in the game after completely shutting off is still a good thing in my book.
In defence Paul was a bit suspect under the high ball and was lucky on the occassion that it hit his or Francies legs. The defence had been doing well as a defensive unit until the last 15 minutes. We started losing in the middle of the field and then the pressure on the defence was immense. MOR going off was a key part of this but also the McGrane blew out of steam. Once the ball was coming into the Fermanagh forward line as often as it was there was only ever going to be one outcome.
The half forward line was poor yesterday and I think that Mallon showed that he is still not up to match pace yet. He was slower in his reactions. Charlie Vernon showed a lot of naivety and when thongs needed to be cooled down they didn't have the wherewithall to do that. SK was very quiet and looked very nervous on the ball. Paddy McK looked hungery when he came on and may have forced his way back into the starting team for the replay.
The thing is though, that for all the platitudes going top Fermanagh and the criticism of Armagh the reality is that for 50 minutes of the game Armagh bossed it. They might not have had the scores on the scoreboard but they were the dominant team. Even when Fermanagh were making the comeback Armagh seemed to be able to match them score for score and even after the goal they Armagh hit an excellent point to keep the gap. I actually think that they were nervous, that they didn't want to be the team that let Fermanagh win their first Ulster and consequently went into preservation mode and that does not suit them. The need to take control of the game to suit their style and when they do that they are hard to stop.
Yesterday another MF should have gone in alongside the McGrane and Toner with 15 minutes left. Put a line of big men across the middle of the park and as the French General at Verdun said "Ils ne passeront pas", but that did not happen.
In the replay, the only change would be McKeever in for either Vernon or Mallon, probably Mallon but if changes need to be made they have to be done early and decisively. I believe they will win the replay as I do not think Fermanagh can add much more to their game from yesterday while Armagh have a lot of lessons learned.
Only for Mallon we would never have got both goals, he set up both pf them and he chased back when others were standing with hands on hips,
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 11:08:01 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 21, 2008, 10:45:51 AM
Could have lost, but to still be in the game after completely shutting off is still a good thing in my book.
In defence Paul was a bit suspect under the high ball and was lucky on the occassion that it hit his or Francies legs. The defence had been doing well as a defensive unit until the last 15 minutes. We started losing in the middle of the field and then the pressure on the defence was immense. MOR going off was a key part of this but also the McGrane blew out of steam. Once the ball was coming into the Fermanagh forward line as often as it was there was only ever going to be one outcome.
The half forward line was poor yesterday and I think that Mallon showed that he is still not up to match pace yet. He was slower in his reactions. Charlie Vernon showed a lot of naivety and when thongs needed to be cooled down they didn't have the wherewithall to do that. SK was very quiet and looked very nervous on the ball. Paddy McK looked hungery when he came on and may have forced his way back into the starting team for the replay.
The thing is though, that for all the platitudes going top Fermanagh and the criticism of Armagh the reality is that for 50 minutes of the game Armagh bossed it. They might not have had the scores on the scoreboard but they were the dominant team. Even when Fermanagh were making the comeback Armagh seemed to be able to match them score for score and even after the goal they Armagh hit an excellent point to keep the gap. I actually think that they were nervous, that they didn't want to be the team that let Fermanagh win their first Ulster and consequently went into preservation mode and that does not suit them. The need to take control of the game to suit their style and when they do that they are hard to stop.
Yesterday another MF should have gone in alongside the McGrane and Toner with 15 minutes left. Put a line of big men across the middle of the park and as the French General at Verdun said "Ils ne passeront pas", but that did not happen.
In the replay, the only change would be McKeever in for either Vernon or Mallon, probably Mallon but if changes need to be made they have to be done early and decisively. I believe they will win the replay as I do not think Fermanagh can add much more to their game from yesterday while Armagh have a lot of lessons learned.
Only for Mallon we would never have got both goals, he set up both pf them and he chased back when others were standing with hands on hips,
I still think though that he is not up to full match pace yet. We need him but I think he will give us more in the last 20-25 minutes at the moment rather than starting him. When defences are tired and the game is open he has the ability to use the spaces to create scoring chances. The last 15 minutes we didn't have a link between the backs and the FF line and he would have been the ideal man for that role.
Bennydorano hit the nail on the head as regards midfield problems. Toner and McGrane (though he tired in 2nd half) were competitive but Fermanagh were able to deflect the ball toward the vacant centre half back line or to our half forward line with impunity. Fermanagh players then picked up uncontested loose ball. While McDonnell was good on the line against Down he failed to address this problem yesterday. I would consider moving A O'Rourke to centre half forward and allow him to drop back from there and play Donaghy in the middle of a conventional half back line.
I would also change Hearty as when the going gets tough he seems to add to the air of panic with kickouts over the sideline and becomes dodgy under the high ball (especially if there is traffic in and around the square)
AK is getting an awful lot of stick, Since Aaron made his debut i never seen him play a bad match, he is human and humans make mistakes, the sort of shite i was listening to on the way out of clones yesterday you would have thought some of the players had murdered someone. but everyone needs to get behind these guys and rally them, we are still in the c'ship. We played absolute shite and still got a draw, Fermanagh people were celebrating after the game, they were happy with the draw, they must have had 70% of the possesion in the 2nd half and couldnt make it count, imagine the shoe in the other foot, it would have been like Dublin Wexford. Next week will tell a different tale and there is no way we can play that bad again
McKinney has to start in goals for the replay and i hope Aaron K has learned his lesson after being dispossessed about 4 times not to mention kicking the ball to the opposition several times. McKeever possibly for Mallon although I'm not that convinced about Vernon i think he is still very raw. Paul Mac was poor yesterday and seems to be struggling to cope with the pace of the game although he could have done with a bit of help as mentioned b4. S Kernan was poor but I'm sure he will get another go at it as he has done well up till yesterday. All in all we won't have as many players play that bad again and i believe we will win the replay...
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 11:32:55 AM
AK is getting an awful lot of stick, Since Aaron made his debut i never seen him play a bad match, he is human and humans make mistakes, the sort of shite i was listening to on the way out of clones yesterday you would have thought some of the players had murdered someone. but everyone needs to get behind these guys and rally them, we are still in the c'ship. We played absolute shite and still got a draw, Fermanagh people were celebrating after the game, they were happy with the draw, they must have had 70% of the possesion in the 2nd half and couldnt make it count, imagine the shoe in the other foot, it would have been like Dublin Wexford. Next week will tell a different tale and there is no way we can play that bad again
Correct Onion. I think Fermanagh will obviously be bouyed by how the game finished but they still have to maintain that level for another 70 minutes. If Armagh realise how close they were to losing they will come back much stronger for the replay. It is clear where the problems lie. When the game opened out in the last 15 minutes Fermanagh were able to use their HB line as the launching point for their attacks. MOR getting hurt was a major lose. I think when he came off it might have been more useful to push Donaghy on to the WB position and move Aaron up front to MOR's position.
Anyway, they still have a chance and things can only get better.
I 100% agree, S kernan was good against Cavan and Down, so what he had a stinker yesterday along with another 10-12 players. It was maybe the wake up call required to go on ahead lift the anglo celt
QuoteNext week will tell a different tale and there is no way we can play that bad again
Why not? You've been playing like that for about 2 years now! ;)
We are still in the c'ship, and we played absolute shite, doesnt say much for the opposition, We had a rotton year last year with injuries but we are regrouping, new manager, An ulster title would be nice this year and anything after that would be a bonus
'Yes I would' - what do you mean about 'don't get me started about that kane fella on bbc'? Every week someone says that here but I never see it so I was wondering what yourse are on about!
manager hadnt a good day at the office yesterday, his substitutions didnt work at all
i felt that common sense would have told him that fermangh were making good use of the short kickout whilst we persisted with long kickouts when the pressure was on ffs we had an extra man in the defence whilst fermanagh had an extra man at midfield,
turning point I thought was mallon`s wide cos they went up the field and scored a goal
looking at the game again last nifght , a kernan, poor,s kernan poor, vernon poor, c mc keever poor and we need to reconsider the use of aor as his man caused a lot of damage and contributed 2 points
all in all clarke and stevie scored 1-7 between then with no other forward scoring clearly room for improvement
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 11:32:55 AM
AK is getting an awful lot of stick, Since Aaron made his debut i never seen him play a bad match, he is human and humans make mistakes, the sort of shite i was listening to on the way out of clones yesterday you would have thought some of the players had murdered someone. but everyone needs to get behind these guys and rally them, we are still in the c'ship. We played absolute shite and still got a draw, Fermanagh people were celebrating after the game, they were happy with the draw, they must have had 70% of the possesion in the 2nd half and couldnt make it count, imagine the shoe in the other foot, it would have been like Dublin Wexford. Next week will tell a different tale and there is no way we can play that bad again
Onion Bag, AK is getting criticised for his performance yesterday, and from what I understand of Aaron I'd say he would be the first man to put the hand up to admit he didn't play well (is he above criticism?). That said, I would fully expect him, among others, to stand up next Sunday and improve dramatically. As I said earlier he has rarely let us down in the past. To a large extent it's irrelevant now, but what price would you put on the two McEntee's fighting for ball in the midfield? There were quite a few Armagh supporters who criticised them in their time.
I'm not sure if i'm disappointed or disgusted with some of the posts on here. "doesn't say much for the opposition" wtf. look at the end of the day you can either play shite or the other team can play well. in my eyes armagh dominated for 30 minutes and fermanagh dominated for 30 minutes (first 10 minutes pretty even). to say that yous played shite is wrong. I can't comprehend all the comments saying "we can't play as bad again". You's didnt play that bad. yous played as good as you can play for much of that game and still didn't win. A lot of Fermanagh men had bad games yesterday. we WILL improve. armagh's record in replays means nothing. historical statistics about replays and favourites winning means nothing. fermanaghs lack of success in replays means nothing. Peter Canavan is wrong. Pound for Pound we are every bit as good as Derry and every bit as good as Armagh. Do you think we will give Armagh an eight point start the next day? Do you think we will miss 14 yard frees? Will Stevie McDonnell be allowed to dictate again? You all talk of Armagh improving. How will that happen? We have a better midfield. We have better men at winning breaks. That won't change in seven days. Bellew can be exploited. It was shown yesterday and Malachy will have seven more days to think of how best to exploit it. Ok Mallon, McD and Clarke are among the best footballers in the country. But beyond that what have you got in excess of Fermanagh? For me I think Goan, Kelly, Maguire, Keenan and even Tommy to an extent had quiet or poor games yesterday. These are our most consistent players. they will not be as poor the next day. people say "if only we (fermanagh) had a mcdonnell to kick 8 points" this is rubbish to an extent. of course we'd love to have a man like mcdonnell but our system is based on finding a man in space and that man being able to kick it over from 30 yards. it can be any man. thats how it works. thats the beauty of it. 9 different scorers yesterday. granted the freetakin ability (or lack there of) nearly cost us yesterday and this will need to be looked at. But mark little will score the next day. eamon maguire will score, mcelroy(s) will score, womble will score and kelly will score. we are a fitter team (by some margin). we are prob the fittest team in ireland. we are a hungry team. we are prob the hungriest team in ireland. yesterdays celebrations were not because we were happy with a draw it was because we were 8 points down with half hour to go and 3 points down with ten two minutes left. We were overjoyed with the magdnitude of the comeback. We were overjoyed in the realisation that we WILL win this the next day. To be honest I think the nerves will sit with Armagh the next day. They seem to fear us. When we get going they don't know how to cope. The pressure is on Armagh. Fermanagh have the momentum. Fermanagh by three. Fear Manach Abú
Quote from: barryownsafarm on July 21, 2008, 12:13:27 PM
I'm not sure if i'm disappointed or disgusted with some of the posts on here. "doesn't say much for the opposition" wtf. look at the end of the day you can either play shite or the other team can play well. in my eyes armagh dominated for 30 minutes and fermanagh dominated for 30 minutes (first 10 minutes pretty even). to say that yous played shite is wrong. I can't comprehend all the comments saying "we can't play as bad again". You's didnt play that bad. yous played as good as you can play for much of that game and still didn't win. A lot of Fermanagh men had bad games yesterday. we WILL improve. armagh's record in replays means nothing. historical statistics about replays and favourites winning means nothing. fermanaghs lack of success in replays means nothing. Peter Canavan is wrong. Pound for Pound we are every bit as good as Derry and every bit as good as Armagh. Do you think we will give Armagh an eight point start the next day? Do you think we will miss 14 yard frees? Will Stevie McDonnell be allowed to dictate again? You all talk of Armagh improving. How will that happen? We have a better midfield. We have better men at winning breaks. That won't change in seven days. Bellew can be exploited. It was shown yesterday and Malachy will have seven more days to think of how best to exploit it. Ok Mallon, McD and Clarke are among the best footballers in the country. But beyond that what have you got in excess of Fermanagh? For me I think Goan, Kelly, Maguire, Keenan and even Tommy to an extent had quiet or poor games yesterday. These are our most consistent players. they will not be as poor the next day. people say "if only we (fermanagh) had a mcdonnell to kick 8 points" this is rubbish to an extent. of course we'd love to have a man like mcdonnell but our system is based on finding a man in space and that man being able to kick it over from 30 yards. it can be any man. thats how it works. thats the beauty of it. 9 different scorers yesterday. granted the freetakin ability (or lack there of) nearly cost us yesterday and this will need to be looked at. But mark little will score the next day. eamon maguire will score, mcelroy(s) will score, womble will score and kelly will score. we are a fitter team (by some margin). we are prob the fittest team in ireland. we are a hungry team. we are prob the hungriest team in ireland. yesterdays celebrations were not because we were happy with a draw it was because we were 8 points down with half hour to go and 3 points down with ten two minutes left. We were overjoyed with the magdnitude of the comeback. We were overjoyed in the realisation that we WILL win this the next day. To be honest I think the nerves will sit with Armagh the next day. They seem to fear us. When we get going they don't know how to cope. The pressure is on Armagh. Fermanagh have the momentum. Fermanagh by three. Fear Manach Abú
We did play shite, noone was happy with the performance, Our lack of break ball, free kicks, side line balls, unforced errors all over the field from players who you dont asscoiate with making mistakes, missed tackles, there will be a huge improvement in our performance next week, so fermanagh people hold on to your caps
Quote from: barryownsafarm on July 21, 2008, 12:13:27 PM
I'm not sure if i'm disappointed or disgusted with some of the posts on here. "doesn't say much for the opposition" wtf. look at the end of the day you can either play shite or the other team can play well. in my eyes armagh dominated for 30 minutes and fermanagh dominated for 30 minutes (first 10 minutes pretty even). to say that yous played shite is wrong. I can't comprehend all the comments saying "we can't play as bad again". You's didnt play that bad. yous played as good as you can play for much of that game and still didn't win. A lot of Fermanagh men had bad games yesterday. we WILL improve. armagh's record in replays means nothing. historical statistics about replays and favourites winning means nothing. fermanaghs lack of success in replays means nothing. Peter Canavan is wrong. Pound for Pound we are every bit as good as Derry and every bit as good as Armagh. Do you think we will give Armagh an eight point start the next day? Do you think we will miss 14 yard frees? Will Stevie McDonnell be allowed to dictate again? You all talk of Armagh improving. How will that happen? We have a better midfield. We have better men at winning breaks. That won't change in seven days. Bellew can be exploited. It was shown yesterday and Malachy will have seven more days to think of how best to exploit it. Ok Mallon, McD and Clarke are among the best footballers in the country. But beyond that what have you got in excess of Fermanagh? For me I think Goan, Kelly, Maguire, Keenan and even Tommy to an extent had quiet or poor games yesterday. These are our most consistent players. they will not be as poor the next day. people say "if only we (fermanagh) had a mcdonnell to kick 8 points" this is rubbish to an extent. of course we'd love to have a man like mcdonnell but our system is based on finding a man in space and that man being able to kick it over from 30 yards. it can be any man. thats how it works. thats the beauty of it. 9 different scorers yesterday. granted the freetakin ability (or lack there of) nearly cost us yesterday and this will need to be looked at. But mark little will score the next day. eamon maguire will score, mcelroy(s) will score, womble will score and kelly will score. we are a fitter team (by some margin). we are prob the fittest team in ireland. we are a hungry team. we are prob the hungriest team in ireland. yesterdays celebrations were not because we were happy with a draw it was because we were 8 points down with half hour to go and 3 points down with ten two minutes left. We were overjoyed with the magdnitude of the comeback. We were overjoyed in the realisation that we WILL win this the next day. To be honest I think the nerves will sit with Armagh the next day. They seem to fear us. When we get going they don't know how to cope. The pressure is on Armagh. Fermanagh have the momentum. Fermanagh by three. Fear Manach Abú
One of which scored a goal which was a clear
SQUARE BALL, so you should have been beat
Observations from my advantage / disadvantage point in front of the box:
AK had one of his worst perfromances in an orange shirt. Onion bag people are saying he played bad because he did, every player gets criticised. He has set very high standards and no doubt he will be back to hisbest next week.
SK was poor but should be a lot better next time out.
McKeever might have been quiet but he bombed forward at important times.
I would like to see McKinney in for the replay. Hearty could be better suited to Croker with the bigger spaces. His booming kick-out could be more important then.
MOR was very busy when on and was substituted too early. You can be sure that the Fermanagh momentum would have been disrupted if he was on be it a great break ball or something.
McDonnell was superb, his points were from the op drawer.
Mallon, Bellew and Moriarty all made forrays forward, never seen that from an Armagh side.
BC I see McKenna came on, would you think he is up to that yet?
I was greatly encouraged by our second half performance yesterday, and it clearly indicated the heart and determination that O'Rourke has instilled in the players this season. I wasn't surprised at McCabe starting, but like many others was at a loss to explain why he faded so badly after a great opening 20 mins. James Sherry, nor the Fermanagh management seem to know where his best position is. He caught two marvellous catches in the first quarter, but struggled badly when put into full forward. Next Sunday, I expect Barry Owens to start at full forward with Sherry probably starting at CHF. However Shaun Doc in the his cameo at the end is a real option there.
Ryan Keenan won a lot of ball yesterday, but unfortunately like nearly all the other Fermanagh forwards does not pose a scoring threat. If anything, he is there for his free taking and when that goes wrong his place is in jeopardy. Tom Brewster or Mattie Keenan starting to simply take the frees is something O'Rourke will strongly have to consider.
In the defence, it was a solid enough performance. Shane Goan had a difficult afternoon, but he's been a rock in there for the last 4 seasons so his place will be safe enough. Damien Kelly never really got going yesterday, which was disappointing considering his performances to date. Shane Lyons did very well when introduced and will be pusing very hard for the jersey next weekend.
I feel we've gained more than Armagh did after the draw. We definitely have the momentum going into the replay and hopefully should have enough to turn over Armagh next Sunday.
It was a really strange result yesterday - this might sound silly - but did Armagh get TOO FAR in front yesterday too early ?
Joe Kernan's teams were always able to close out games with small margins - Joe's teams were able to close out games with 1,2,3 point leads - maybe it was strange territory for Armagh but their midfield collapse was unreal.
I thought some Armagh players treated Fermanagh with little or no respect and it nearly came back to haunt them.
Just after watching the game again there now.
The first half was defiantly not one for the purists.
Fermanagh turned the game in the second half by utilizing McCluskey in an attacking role and by pressing Armagh in their own half of the field. Armagh scoring the goal at the start of the second half meant Fermanagh had to go for it. It meant we had to attack and Clucker stopped trying to read the balls going into Clarke and McDonnell.
The amount of turnover ball Fermanagh forced Armagh to concede was huge. The way to stop McDonnell and Clarke is to cut of and spoil the ball going into them.
That's exactly what we did in the second half. We pressed them in their own half and put the Armagh backs under huge pressure
But we kicked far too many balls into the keepers hands and took the wrong option especially in the last 10 minutes. For all our procession we were 3 points down with 5 minutes of normal time to go. Armagh had 2 opportunities to hit insurance points and they missed both. McDonnell from a free and from play i think.
Owens was great when he came on. Have watched Bellew playing on numerous occasions and he has rarely put a foot wrong but he certainly did not look comfortable marking Owens. Do not know if Barry would be fit for the whole match but he really could be an option up there.
Armagh will definitely not concede as much possession in the midfield third the next day but then again i do not think that the Fermanagh forwards will be as wasteful.
On another note i am hearing today that there was a complete balls up with tickets to the hill. People with hill tickets being sent behind the goals and others not getting in. One fella i know was told the hill was full and he would have to go to the pub and watch it.
I can see a repeat of the 2005 scenario when Aramgh were lucky enough to get a draw with Fermanagh in the Ulster Championship but won the replay handy enough.
PS Saw Peter Mc Ginnity and Jim Cleary deep in conversation at the back of the Gerry Arthurs stand after the game yesterday. Some day Fermanagh will reach an Ulster Final and not have to fact the might of Armagh
Quote from: FermGael on July 21, 2008, 01:15:08 PM
Just after watching the game again there now.
The first half was defiantly not one for the purists.
Fermanagh turned the game in the second half by utilizing McCluskey in an attacking role and by pressing Armagh in their own half of the field. Armagh scoring the goal at the start of the second half meant Fermanagh had to go for it. It meant we had to attack and Clucker stopped trying to read the balls going into Clarke and McDonnell.
The amount of turnover ball Fermanagh forced Armagh to concede was huge. The way to stop McDonnell and Clarke is to cut of and spoil the ball going into them.
That's exactly what we did in the second half. We pressed them in their own half and put the Armagh backs under huge pressure
But we kicked far too many balls into the keepers hands and took the wrong option especially in the last 10 minutes. For all our procession we were 3 points down with 5 minutes of normal time to go. Armagh had 2 opportunities to hit insurance points and they missed both. McDonnell from a free and from play i think.
Owens was great when he came on. Have watched Bellew playing on numerous occasions and he has rarely put a foot wrong but he certainly did not look comfortable marking Owens. Do not know if Barry would be fit for the whole match but he really could be an option up there.
Armagh will definitely not concede as much possession in the midfield third the next day but then again i do not think that the Fermanagh forwards will be as wasteful.
On another note i am hearing today that there was a complete balls up with tickets to the hill. People with hill tickets being sent behind the goals and others not getting in. One fella i know was told the hill was full and he would have to go to the pub and watch it.
[/b]
I hope you're making that up as that simply could NOT happen !
BTW anyone who thinks Fermanagh's goal should not have counted are out of order in my eyes.
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2008, 01:16:51 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 21, 2008, 01:15:08 PM
Just after watching the game again there now.
The first half was defiantly not one for the purists.
Fermanagh turned the game in the second half by utilizing McCluskey in an attacking role and by pressing Armagh in their own half of the field. Armagh scoring the goal at the start of the second half meant Fermanagh had to go for it. It meant we had to attack and Clucker stopped trying to read the balls going into Clarke and McDonnell.
The amount of turnover ball Fermanagh forced Armagh to concede was huge. The way to stop McDonnell and Clarke is to cut of and spoil the ball going into them.
That's exactly what we did in the second half. We pressed them in their own half and put the Armagh backs under huge pressure
But we kicked far too many balls into the keepers hands and took the wrong option especially in the last 10 minutes. For all our procession we were 3 points down with 5 minutes of normal time to go. Armagh had 2 opportunities to hit insurance points and they missed both. McDonnell from a free and from play i think.
Owens was great when he came on. Have watched Bellew playing on numerous occasions and he has rarely put a foot wrong but he certainly did not look comfortable marking Owens. Do not know if Barry would be fit for the whole match but he really could be an option up there.
Armagh will definitely not concede as much possession in the midfield third the next day but then again i do not think that the Fermanagh forwards will be as wasteful.
On another note i am hearing today that there was a complete balls up with tickets to the hill. People with hill tickets being sent behind the goals and others not getting in. One fella i know was told the hill was full and he would have to go to the pub and watch it.
[/b]
I hope you're making that up as that simply could NOT happen !
Not making it up. He was turned away with a valid ticket because the hill was full.
It was proven last night on the Sunday Game, by means of the computer diagram that Maguire was clearly in the square, no doubt about it, should have been a square ball and that was the gut feeling that I and many other fans seated beside me at that end of the Gerry Arthurs stand yesterday had as well. We all instinctively shouted in unison, Square Ball.
Thats two years in a row we have fell victim to illegitimate goals in the Ulster Championship >:(
The problems we had yesterday were (a) with the free taking and (b) not getting as much space. Against Monaghan and Derry every time a Fermanagh man had the ball there seemed to be two free men. Yesterday - until the last 25 mins - every time fermanagh broke each green jersey had an orange one attached. Too often men ran into tackles or kicked an aimless pass. This was due to the lack of space. I would say this changed in the last half an hour cause Armagh couldnt maintain it for the whole 70 as lads like Little and Keenan and Maguire and McElroy never stop running.
I don't think Brewster or Mattie will start. Apparantly keenan was going well with frees in training. to be honest though I would have no confidence in him pointing anything thats over 30 yards out. Little or even Kelly could have a crack at the longer ones though both of these can be sporadic as well.
I actually thought Sherry played well yesterday. But you're right it was when he was out round the middle rather than at FF. Good to see Peter Sherry have a good game as well after Eoin Bradley giving him the run around.
You would have to fancy McGrath to be in the running for an Allstar again this year, though that will be worth little if we dont win ulster. Tommy McElroy continues to impress even though ytrdy wasnt his best game imo (kicked three bad balls in towards the square when we had 10 minutes of pressure and no scores. Ronnie Gallagher also deserves a mention though I see other posters arent happy at him giving lip the whole game.
Team for the next day:
Ronnie
Goan Owens Sherry
Kelly Clucker Tommy
McElroy Little
Womble McGrath
Sherry
Keenan Maguire McCabe
Oh and re. the square ball....if the ref blew Clarke for overcarrying when he got the goal you would have lost - what is your point exactly?!
The crowd yesterday and the demand for tickets once again raises the question about Clones' fitness for purpose in terms of hosting Ulster Finals.
The hill was a complete joke yesterday am I suprised that no one seriously hurt with the amount of people in it the walkways were completely full and you couldn't move, one of the stewarts told me to go back out and go behind the goal saying that it was the hill aswell, the stewarts just didn't seem to give a f*uk
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 01:16:15 PM
I can see a repeat of the 2005 scenario when Aramgh were lucky enough to get a draw with Fermanagh in the Ulster Championship but won the replay handy enough.
PS Saw Peter Mc Ginnity and Jim Cleary deep in conversation at the back of the Gerry Arthurs stand after the game yesterday. Some day Fermanagh will reach an Ulster Final and not have to fact the might of Armagh
Ah Tony. How's the fantasy competition in the Belfast telegraph going this weather??
you still in second place.
Quote from: corn02 on July 21, 2008, 01:17:12 PM
BTW anyone who thinks Fermanagh's goal should not have counted are out of order in my eyes.
Can you please tell me why corn, it was a square ball! Automatically a free out, How is that out of order, its the rules
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 01:23:02 PM
It was proven last night on the Sunday Game, by means of the computer diagram that Maguire was clearly in the square, no doubt about it, should have been a square ball and that was the gut feeling that I and many other fans seated beside me at that end of the Gerry Arthurs stand yesterday had as well. We all instinctively shouted in unison, Square Ball.
Thats two years in a row we have fell victim to illegitimate goals in the Ulster Championship >:(
But if had been sitting in the Pat Mc Grane, you wouldn't have seen it - that's where the referee was so he missed it. Buy Pat Mc Grane tickets for the next day ! ;)
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2008, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 01:23:02 PM
It was proven last night on the Sunday Game, by means of the computer diagram that Maguire was clearly in the square, no doubt about it, should have been a square ball and that was the gut feeling that I and many other fans seated beside me at that end of the Gerry Arthurs stand yesterday had as well. We all instinctively shouted in unison, Square Ball.
Thats two years in a row we have fell victim to illegitimate goals in the Ulster Championship >:(
But if had been sitting in the Pat Mc Grane, you wouldn't have seen it - that's where the referee was so he missed it. Buy Pat Mc Grane tickets for the next day ! ;)
Isnt there umpires there to spot the infringement
What do the Fermanagh heads think of Keenan? A talented boy but carries the ball into trouble a serious amount of times. The Armagh half backs were gobbling him up.
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2008, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 01:23:02 PM
It was proven last night on the Sunday Game, by means of the computer diagram that Maguire was clearly in the square, no doubt about it, should have been a square ball and that was the gut feeling that I and many other fans seated beside me at that end of the Gerry Arthurs stand yesterday had as well. We all instinctively shouted in unison, Square Ball.
Thats two years in a row we have fell victim to illegitimate goals in the Ulster Championship >:(
But if had been sitting in the Pat Mc Grane, you wouldn't have seen it - that's where the referee was so he missed it. Buy Pat Mc Grane tickets for the next day ! ;)
It was a square ball. I thought Francie was fouled on the edge of the square off the ball..
BUT
Hearty should have cleared it!
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 21, 2008, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2008, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 01:23:02 PM
It was proven last night on the Sunday Game, by means of the computer diagram that Maguire was clearly in the square, no doubt about it, should have been a square ball and that was the gut feeling that I and many other fans seated beside me at that end of the Gerry Arthurs stand yesterday had as well. We all instinctively shouted in unison, Square Ball.
Thats two years in a row we have fell victim to illegitimate goals in the Ulster Championship >:(
But if had been sitting in the Pat Mc Grane, you wouldn't have seen it - that's where the referee was so he missed it. Buy Pat Mc Grane tickets for the next day ! ;)
It was a square ball. I thought Francie was fouled on the edge of the square off the ball..
BUT
Hearty should have cleared it!
He should have took ball man the whole thing with him
do you know how i could get tickets to the replay?
what time does the replay start next sunday
Quote from: ONeill on July 21, 2008, 01:38:49 PM
What do the Fermanagh heads think of Keenan? A talented boy but carries the ball into trouble a serious amount of times. The Armagh half backs were gobbling him up.
A very talented footballer. Was very good at underage level. Won McRory medals. Then came 04. Kicked of the Femanagh panel after an article in the Irish News the week before the Tyrone game in the Ulster Championship.
Obviously has done alot of weights work since that. Has certainly bulked up quite abit.
Yesterday was his worst game of the year so far. Usually quite reliable from frees from the right.
Agreed O'Neill he seemed intent on carrying the ball into contact yesterday instead of off loading and going for the return.
The younger brother is a great prospect.
Replay is at 3
Nicely placed in second position in the Belfast Telegraph pick the score competition, and have reduced the deficit on the leader by 4 points this week. Actually had the Connaught Final for a draw last week (only a point in it in the end) which would have garnered me 20 points and propelled me into the lead. Already this looks like a three horse race for the £3 Grand, would you bet against me? ;D
It is up to the Umpires to spot square balls not the referees. FFS how hard can this be when all they have to do is stand still for 70 minutes and keep their eyes opened.
Possible team for next week
McKinney
Mallon Bellew Moriarty
Donaghy/A Kernan A O Rourke C McKeever
P McGrane Toner
Mallon P McKeever M ORourke
McDonnell Clarke S Kernan/T Kernan
People who should be close to loosing out from yesterday - Hearty, A Kernan, C Vernon, B Mallon S Kernan
Cant understand for the life of me how P McDonnell came to put on Oisin.. 1. He aint match fit. 2 He isn't up to playing 30 minutes championship football 3. There are better players to bring on than him. 4. Wrong time to make token substitutions in a Ulster Final in the past i thought otherwise but yesterday we lost the battle of the managers/tacticians as well as other battles on the field.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 02:07:24 PM
Nicely placed in second position in the Belfast Telegraph pick the score competition, and have reduced the deficit on the leader by 4 points this week. Actually had the Connaught Final for a draw last week (only a point in it in the end) which would have garnered me 20 points and propelled me into the lead. Already this looks like a three horse race for the £3 Grand, would you bet against me? ;D
It is up to the Umpires to spot square balls not the referees. FFS how hard can this be when all they have to do is stand still for 70 minutes and keep their eyes opened.
Yes. You only ever win the weekly prizes in these competitions. You always run out of steam when it comes to the overall prize ;)
Any word of TV coverage yet? I'm heading on hols on Saturday and wont get.
defo on bbc
what about tickets?
Yeah, you can get them on the bbc too. what about tickets?
when do they go on sale? or how do i get some?
Fermgael, you obviously haven't been on this Board for too long. Ask O'Neill who won the BBC predictions comp way back in 2004 with NFL Final Tickets and overnight in the Berkeley Court.
It is Fermanagh who run out of steam in the latter stages not me ;)
PS Anyone else, like me, on this Board,able to claim that they have attended both Armagh Fermanagh Ulster Finals, in 1982 and 2008?
Quote from: holylandsniper on July 21, 2008, 02:07:53 PM
Possible team for next week
McKinney
Mallon Bellew Moriarty
Donaghy/A Kernan A O Rourke C McKeever
P McGrane Toner
Mallon P McKeever M ORourke
McDonnell Clarke S Kernan/T Kernan
People who should be close to loosing out from yesterday - Hearty, A Kernan, C Vernon, B Mallon S Kernan
Cant understand for the life of me how P McDonnell came to put on Oisin.. 1. He aint match fit. 2 He isn't up to playing 30 minutes championship football 3. There are better players to bring on than him. 4. Wrong time to make token substitutions in a Ulster Final in the past i thought otherwise but yesterday we lost the battle of the managers/tacticians as well as other battles on the field.
Am i the only one that thought B Mallon wasnt 2 bad, he set up both goals, tracked back and at least made an effort,
Heading to Wexford, would you get analogue BBCni there? Is BBCni on the Sky platform down south?
Yeah. We even have the electric and all.
QuoteI thought some Armagh players treated Fermanagh with little or no respect and it nearly came back to haunt them.
I thought, in the second half, they treated Fermanagh with too much respect!
Thats exactly what i was going to say Balladmaker, stood back and watched walk round us in the 2nd half and win every breaking ball
The pressure on Armagh in the second half was fierce and you just knew that Fermanagh were going to pull it out of the fire.
With all due respect to Fermanagh, if we couldn't cope with that yesterday how would we deal with Dublin's forwards running like that at us, with the hill roaring them on?
Will there be a full house for the replay ?
Quote from: holylandsniper on July 21, 2008, 02:07:53 PM
Possible team for next week
McKinney
Mallon Bellew Moriarty
Donaghy/A Kernan A O Rourke C McKeever
P McGrane Toner
Mallon P McKeever M ORourke
McDonnell Clarke S Kernan/T Kernan
People who should be close to loosing out from yesterday - Hearty, A Kernan, C Vernon, B Mallon S Kernan
Cant understand for the life of me how P McDonnell came to put on Oisin.. 1. He aint match fit. 2 He isn't up to playing 30 minutes championship football 3. There are better players to bring on than him. 4. Wrong time to make token substitutions in a Ulster Final in the past i thought otherwise but yesterday we lost the battle of the managers/tacticians as well as other battles on the field.
You're not too far off the mark there. Think AK and SK will hold on to their places with Donaghy ready to come in if AK doesn't perform.
QuoteWith all due respect to Fermanagh, if we couldn't cope with that yesterday how would we deal with Dublin's forwards running like that at us, with the hill roaring them on?
Put simply, we won't cope. The 2nd half yesterday was like a serious dose of deja vu from the 2004 Q/Final. Fermanagh ran at Armagh, panic mode set in, and all of a sudden Armagh were reeling. There has to be a leader on the field (such as McGeeney was for so long) to calm things down, and get the team playing again. Surely, someone could have faked an injury for a few minutes to allow them get things sorted!
The Fermanagh waves coming up the field were relentless, and the only good point from an Armagh perspective is that there is no way any team could keep that going for 70 minutes.
Maybe yesterday was the kick up the backside that Armagh needed, but somehow, I'm not so sure in the long run. I just have this feeling that there is something missing from the Armagh team that would make them real contenders. I think Armagh can win next Sunday, but as for the All Ireland, could be several bridges too far. But here's hoping.
The situation with the crowd on the hill was a joke yesterday. I arrived at 11.40 and we weren't allowed in. The stewards wanted clarification from the Ulster Council that the Hill Terrace actually meant the Hill and not the O'Duffy terracing behind the goals. I asked some official how they had left it to an hour after the place opened to get this clarification and he told me to effectively get lost. The crowd began to get bigger and they still weren't letting us in. Thankfully somebody gave the go ahead but clearly from other people's posts the organisation seems to be have been a shambles. One of the stewards said that problems with overcrowding occured at the Down V Armagh game and they didn't want it repeated.
At the Armagh Down game people, they closed the Hill as well and wouldnt let anyone else in because there was some tube in the turnstiles letting people in with O Duffy Tickets and the hill was stuffed, and by the time the people came along with Genuine Hill tickets they were turned away
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 04:05:47 PM
At the Armagh Down game people, they closed the Hill as well and wouldnt let anyone else in because there was some tube in the turnstiles letting people in with O Duffy Tickets and the hill was stuffed, and by the time the people came along with Genuine Hill tickets they were turned away
This is pretty serious stuff. How hard can it be to get the ticketing right? There were plenty of children in the Hill as well.
So what was the mood round the pubs in Fermanagh like last night? relieved, confident?
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 04:12:36 PM
So what was the mood round the pubs in Fermanagh like last night? relieved, confident?
Incoherent is a word I'd have used !
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 04:12:36 PM
So what was the mood round the pubs in Fermanagh like last night? relieved, confident?
Plenty of drunk ones, but the atmosphere was a bit quiet, a massive anti-climax, but a draw was always going to be like that. We've put the celebrations on hold. A lot of ones decided to go into work today so went home early and plenty like myself were working out the logistics of flying home again and begging the boss for next Monday off!
Its just that when i was leaving the ground yesterday, everyone in the green and white were celebrating, for what i ask? I know they made a great comeback but there is still no silverware in the cabinet,
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 04:17:03 PM
Its just that when i was leaving the ground yesterday, everyone in the green and white were celebrating, for what i ask? I know they made a great comeback but there is still no silverware in the cabinet,
To be honest we were all on a high and the adrenalin was flowing. We were dead and buried at 8 points down so to equalise in the last minute was almost like winning. When we finally got out of Clones the realists amongst us knew that we still had it all to do next week.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 03:17:06 PM
The pressure on Armagh in the second half was fierce and you just knew that Fermanagh were going to pull it out of the fire.
With all due respect to Fermanagh, if we couldn't cope with that yesterday how would we deal with Dublin's forwards running like that at us, with the hill roaring them on?
What does 'with all due respect' mean?
With all due respect to Armagh, if we couldn't cope with that yesterday how would we deal with Dublin's forwards running like that at us, with the hill roaring them on?
The replay won't be live on TV so I'd expect a good attendance.
Bacon, where did you read this,
Is it on no channel at all
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 04:44:15 PM
Bacon, where did you read this,
Is it on no channel at all
Austin O'Callaghan announced that was live next Sunday at the end of yesterdays game.
What about TV3, RTE?
Nay. Its not on. RTE are showing to 2 hurling quater finals. TV3 can't go head to head with RTE and BBC can only broadcast what RTE broadcast. You'll just have to buy a ticket and go to it!!
PS. It will be live on the RTE web site in Ireland.
PPS TV3 are showing 2 football matches on Saturday. Tyrone & Donegal games.
Quote from: inisceithleann on July 21, 2008, 04:45:29 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 04:44:15 PM
Bacon, where did you read this,
Is it on no channel at all
Austin O'Callaghan announced that was live next Sunday at the end of yesterdays game.
Live on the wireless maybe.
That would be my bastarding luck alrite.
Hard to see BBC not showing it as they paid through the nose for the rights!
Quote from: Bacon on July 21, 2008, 04:49:19 PM
Nay. Its not on. RTE are showing to 2 hurling quater finals. TV3 can't go head to head with RTE and BBC can only broadcast what RTE broadcast. You'll just have to buy a ticket and go to it!!
PS. It will be live on the RTE web site in Ireland.
PPS TV3 are showing 2 football matches on Saturday. Tyrone & Donegal games.
Dont you worry Bacon, I'll be there, but you are right if it is not on the box, it will be a full house again, another big gate for the Grab All whores
QuoteBBC can only broadcast what RTE broadcast.
Hardly. Yesterday's game was not live on RTE.
I was in Clones yesterday thoroughly enjoyed the 2nd half, really exciting when the crowd really came alive and got behind fermanagh! I was delighted for fermanagh when they equalised and will definitely go back next sunday (if I can get a ticket)! Don't think armagh will go 8 up the next day, it'll be an enthralling point for point contest with again fermanagh having tonnes of possession, but just having to work that bit harder for their scores. Can't wait ;D I wouldn't rule out extratime to sort out this one, and if that's the case Fermangh will win, as there runners like keenan,little&maguire will still be sharp!
Armagh to win with 3 points to spare ;)
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 05:02:52 PM
Armagh to win with 3 points to spare ;)
I think they'll win by more than that!
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 02:38:20 PM
Fermgael, you obviously haven't been on this Board for too long. Ask O'Neill who won the BBC predictions comp way back in 2004 with NFL Final Tickets and overnight in the Berkeley Court.
Oh i remember that and i also remember you booking the wrong night in a hotel for some match in Dublin
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 02:38:20 PM
It is Fermanagh who run out of steam in the latter stages not me ;)
well in the Irish news competitions over the last few years (you entered about 20 teams), you may have won the odd Irish News weekly prize but i never remember you finishing in the top 10 in that either.
Any word on Shane McCabe's availibility yet? And is there any truth to the rumour that Quinn might buy out his contract with Glentoran were Fermanagh to win the Ulster title?
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 21, 2008, 06:47:38 PM
Any word on Shane McCabe's availability yet? And is there any truth to the rumour that Quinn might buy out his contract with Glentoran were Fermanagh to win the Ulster title?
That one is an old chestnut. Cannot see there being much truth in it.
As for his availability, it would be hard for Glentoran not to realise him. They have got alot a good publicity from it and after all, they are still in preseason
he said in his interview after the game sunday he'd be playing next week
aaron kernan had a horrible game i thought yesterday but i would definately persavere with him the next day.
totally wipped out at mf in second half yesterday.
felt mcdonnell made changes he didnt need to why being mcconville and mckeever on when mf was the problem.
vernon isnt impressing me at this level. expected big things from him after watching qub the last few years he appears v nervous
"Armagh are over reliant on Steven McDonnell.!" mcdonnell didnrt even score from play against down and todate s kernan and clarke have been better bar yesterday
hill was a joke people squashing up against each other. had a load of wee dicks beside me who kept shouting to "break"players and "knock his f**k out"was embarrassed to be frm armagh listening to that
Quote from: bloody mary on July 21, 2008, 11:53:49 AM
'Yes I would' - what do you mean about 'don't get me started about that kane fella on bbc'? Every week someone says that here but I never see it so I was wondering what yourse are on about!
Predicatble as hell, No analysis of tactics, game plans etc etc
"Come here... Whos is gonna win the replay?,
"Come here... What was said at half time?
"Come here... Can yous go on and win this?
" Come here... Did you think you would score that equalising point?
Agree about Veron, had been very impressed with him in club and college football. Very powerful ball carrier, but just hasnt clicked into gear yeat after 3 games.
May be better employed introduced off the bench. Wouldnt be Paddy Mc Keevers biggest fan but thought he got into the game when he came on, and have a feeling he might start next day out.
Quote from: charlie stubbs on July 21, 2008, 07:05:40 PM
aaron kernan had a horrible game i thought yesterday but i would definately persavere with him the next day.
totally wipped out at mf in second half yesterday.
felt mcdonnell made changes he didnt need to why being mcconville and mckeever on when mf was the problem.
vernon isnt impressing me at this level. expected big things from him after watching qub the last few years he appears v nervous
"Armagh are over reliant on Steven McDonnell.!" mcdonnell didnrt even score from play against down and todate s kernan and clarke have been better bar yesterday
hill was a joke people squashing up against each other. had a load of wee dicks beside me who kept shouting to "break"players and "knock his f**k out"was embarrassed to be frm armagh listening to that
You should have had a quiet word and clipped a few ears
Did ye hear Canavan saying that hundreds of Fermanagh fans left when 8 points down.
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 21, 2008, 10:27:46 AM
What was that clown Gallagher at yesterday, He wouldnt shake Stevies hand b4 the game and was mouthing in his ear all day, waving his arms at the crowd and all that, someone from Fermanagh would need to have a wee word in his ear,
And just when im in the mood for complaining, i thought the sportmanship from a huge amount of fermanagh fans was a disgrace, There is nothing as bad as someone taking a free kick and getting booed from the opposition fans, Jasus i hate that
I stood on the O'Duffy terrace today in my green jersey and clapped most of Armaghs points as McDonnell and Toner got beauties..but then only to be pushed in the back when Moriarty found the net...lovely lads altogether! Ya get clowns everywhere im afraid!
Re: Ulster Final 2008 - Armagh vs Fermanagh
« Reply #528 on: Today at 08:35:32 PM »
Reply with quote
Quote from: Onion Bag on Today at 10:27:46 AM
What was that clown Gallagher at yesterday, He wouldnt shake Stevies hand b4 the game and was mouthing in his ear all day, waving his arms at the crowd and all that, someone from Fermanagh would need to have a wee word in his ear,
And just when im in the mood for complaining, i thought the sportmanship from a huge amount of fermanagh fans was a disgrace, There is nothing as bad as someone taking a free kick and getting booed from the opposition fans, Jasus i hate that
I stood on the O'Duffy terrace today in my green jersey and clapped most of Armaghs points as McDonnell and Toner got beauties..but then only to be pushed in the back when Moriarty found the net...lovely lads altogether! Ya get clowns everywhere im afraid!
What were ya doin in clones today?? Ya should have went yesterday, far better craic.
Were ya not wearin a white jersey ne?? ;)
In drawn games teams that finish strongly always get the plaudits but the main plus point for Armagh to take out of this game was that they dominated the game for large enough periods and led on the scoreboard for most of the game. Another one is that McDonnell and Clarke are on fire at the minute and any ball, good or bad, going in to them is resulting in a score. As others have said here, if they were getting better service we'd be winning games at a canter. But hard to remember the last time i've seen a team get so cleaned out possession wise for so long in a game - Armagh didn't win one kickout for the last 20 mins. Usually a team would expect to win a fair share of it's own kickouts. Just 1 or 2 breaks won would have seen us win with a few points to spare. The big problem was the lack of Armagh half backs and half forwards getting in to support the 2 midfielders. Toner and McGrane didn't do any worse in the high fielding stakes than the 2 Fermanagh men - it's just that Fermanagh had a greater number of bodies ready to collect the break ball uncontested. Our half forward line was sitting too deep and weren't tuned in to go and win the ball around there. Another thing that didn't help was Hearty's kickouts - they were that long they were actually bypassing our midfield and hitting the Fermanagh half back line! Hearty's from the old school - kick the ball as long and as hard and you can, and he's good at that. But that's not too clever when the opposition are winning everything. Where's the variety Paul? This is nothing new though - Kerry destroyed us in the second half of the 06 game and again nothing changed in the kickouts - straight down Dara O'Se's throat all day long. Aidan O'Rourke was giving off to him at one stage, but it didn't change anything. McKinney deserves a chance.
Even being 8 points up games like this can take a turn on careless mistakes and complacency creeping in. I thought a major turning point was when Aaron Kernan was taking a sideline ball in the Fermanagh half. That giveaway led to the Fermanagh goal and they got a bit of belief from that. After a brilliant first half where he was running the show he had a nightmare second. Others like SK, Vernon, Ciaran McKeever didn't get into the game at all, which was disappointing. Paddy McKeever will probably have to start the replay - only for him we wouldn't have got a ball in the second half.
In the papers the past week we've been reading about how meticulous and astute McDonnell is. Well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where Armagh's weaknesses lie, based on the last 2 matches. It remains to be seen whether he will be able to fix them in the space of 1 week but i'd say it's something they'll be working on in training!
By the way, the Fermanagh goalie is a maggot.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2008, 04:54:25 PM
QuoteBBC can only broadcast what RTE broadcast.
Hardly. Yesterday's game was not live on RTE.
So is it on TV live? I should have said "what RTE or TV3".
armagh ones behind me had drink brought in and were slabberin and booing Fermanagh free kicks for 60 minutes --there wasnt a word outta any of them in the last 10 minutes!
Bacon I'm not sure you're correct with that...
Take an example of Antrim v Cavan ... was it not live on bcc but no other channel?
A very enjoyable match/atmosphere in clones on sunday. Being an Armagh supporter, I thought we had it in the bag after Clarkes goal, but fair play to Fermanagh, they battled to the end & if they had of taken their points instead of going for goal with 15 mins to go would have won by a couple of points.
From an Armagh perspective, ...........very disappointing
MF was totally overrun, if we play our HF line deep to win breaking ball, why did'nt we win any? Its not like they were contributing to scores. Though Brian Mallon played very well. I'd like to see him further up the field.
Full back line did quite well, considering the fact they we being bombed continiosuly for at least the last 20 mins. Half back line was caught in possession too many times. Have to say it was the worst performance from the 2 kernans in an Armagh Jersey, but I would definelty give them a chance to redeem themselves.
I would have liked to have seen Mc Donnell give either swift or mc kenna a run when we were being wiped out in MF. Mc Grane was running on empty. It gives an impression that he has no confidence in them & if this is the case, why are they on the panel? This will be Mc Granes last year, we need to blood these guys...
Clarke & Mc Donnell are a joy to watch, if we play our positions and move the ball into them quicker, we'll beat Fermanagh in the replay
Have to say Marty Mc Grath was outstanding on sunday
Lets go again next sunday
Quote from: FromAFar on July 21, 2008, 09:42:54 PM
Re: Ulster Final 2008 - Armagh vs Fermanagh
« Reply #528 on: Today at 08:35:32 PM »
Reply with quote
Quote from: Onion Bag on Today at 10:27:46 AM
What was that clown Gallagher at yesterday, He wouldnt shake Stevies hand b4 the game and was mouthing in his ear all day, waving his arms at the crowd and all that, someone from Fermanagh would need to have a wee word in his ear,
And just when im in the mood for complaining, i thought the sportmanship from a huge amount of fermanagh fans was a disgrace, There is nothing as bad as someone taking a free kick and getting booed from the opposition fans, Jasus i hate that
I stood on the O'Duffy terrace today in my green jersey and clapped most of Armaghs points as McDonnell and Toner got beauties..but then only to be pushed in the back when Moriarty found the net...lovely lads altogether! Ya get clowns everywhere im afraid!
What were ya doin in clones today?? Ya should have went yesterday, far better craic.
Were ya not wearin a white jersey ne?? ;)
The jersey was white yday, but its far from white after a nite out in enniskillen! Chaos!!
QuoteI stood on the O'Duffy terrace today in my green jersey and clapped most of Armaghs points as McDonnell and Toner got beauties..but then only to be pushed in the back when Moriarty found the net...lovely lads altogether! Ya get clowns everywhere im afraid!
Dodgyrightfoot...you're not going to believe this, but while watching one of the replays on TV last night, for some reason I spotted an Armagh fella pushing a Fermanagh supporter in the back when Armagh scored the first goal....they were just to he left of the posts (looking from the field)
M Deegan (Laois) the ref for the replay.
I was chatting to a fella last nite and he reckons it is on tv, Can someone please put this to bed, is it or isnt it?
If Maurice Deegan is the ref the entertainment value will be nil and there will be carnage.
Even a league run-out is ruined by his insistence on black booking for every foul, following by yellow and then red. Except a Garda escort.
Deegan is whistle-happy alright.
Quote from: corn02 on July 22, 2008, 09:07:43 AM
Deegan is whistle-happy alright.
Who will suffer most, Armagh or Fermanagh?
O'Callaghan said last week it would be live this SUnday.
QuoteBy the way, the Fermanagh goalie is a maggot.
Whys this armamike?
Ulster GAA Senior Football Championship Final Replay (3.00pm):
Armagh v Fermanagh at St Tiernachs Park Clones Ref: Maurice Deegan (Laois)
*Those attending these games are asked to:
• Note that this is an ALL TICKET event. Everyone attending requires a ticket. Tickets will be available through the usual outlets, including County Boards.
• Note the starting time of the games and that the Stiles Open at 12.00p.m.
• Leave adequate time to reach the venue – It is advised that patrons attend at least one hour prior to the start of the game.
• Use the car parks as directed by signage.
• Please respect property. Do not cause litter in the Parking areas or in the precincts of the Ground.
• A perimeter cordon will apply at the entrances where only persons with valid tickets will be allowed to pass. Patrons are also advised that Bottles, Cans and any item capable of causing injury or nuisance will not be permitted inside the cordon or the Stadium.
• Co-operate with the Stewards and Gardai, and follow traffic directions at all times.
Is there a warm up match before hand ?
Did you hear that the tickets are all half price ? ;)
Game is definitely on BBC
R: Armagh v Fermanagh
ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL
Venue: Clones. Date: Sunday, 27 July. Throw-in: 1500 BST.
Coverage: Live: BBC2 NI, Radio Ulster MW and on the BBC NI website
Quote from: corn02 on July 22, 2008, 09:07:43 AM
Deegan is whistle-happy alright.
#
Take the whistle off him and give it to somebody else then ! Jimmy White did a great job the other day - reappoint him !
Quote from: Barney on July 22, 2008, 08:27:58 AM
If Maurice Deegan is the ref the entertainment value will be nil and there will be carnage.
Even a league run-out is ruined by his insistence on black booking for every foul, following by yellow and then red. Except a Garda escort.
Sure the Armagh boys are used to that with Paudie Hughes and the likes in Armagh, we'll be grand! :L
In all fairness he will try and make his mark on the game from the outset.
Looking forward to this match!
Anyone think will there be many changes on the Armagh team?
QuoteIs there a warm up match before hand ?
Did you hear that the tickets are all half price ?
There is a LIFC game on beforehand......tickets are full price just the same as last Sunday.
Quote from: balladmaker on July 22, 2008, 10:42:52 AM
There is a LIFC game on beforehand......
What is that?
I'm assuming it must be Ladies Intermediate Football Championship...but don't quote me on that.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 22, 2008, 09:56:52 AM
QuoteBy the way, the Fermanagh goalie is a maggot.
Whys this armamike?
Because at th start of the game He wouldnt shake Stevies Hand and was mouthing in his ear all day and giving him a hard time, and then he was roaring and waving at the crowd, What a maggot alright!
Oh right I honestly didn't know that, not very nice
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 22, 2008, 10:52:18 AM
Because at th start of the game He wouldnt shake Stevies Hand and was mouthing in his ear all day and giving him a hard time, and then he was roaring and waving at the crowd, What a maggot alright!
Aw poor Stevie. No handshake. And he was mouthing in his ear. All day. And gave him a hard time. And he was roaring. And Waving. At the crowd.
What a bastard!
The word is he was saying to Stevie all day "You're shite . . . what have you won? you're shite!"
I'll tell you something Stevie has won a whole lot more than that p***k,
Quote from: balladmaker on July 22, 2008, 10:50:29 AM
I'm assuming it must be Ladies Intermediate Football Championship...but don't quote me on that.
Spot on, balladmaker, Fermanagh ladies play Kilkenny....that'll really bring the crowd in early. ::)
Definitely on BBC, watched their coverage last night and it must've been said about 6 times that they were showing the replay live. Austin O'Callaghan really adds to their coverage, very good, and in fairness, Rory Gallagher was very good in his analysis also.
For once, I agree with McHugh, Armagh were very defensive and brought Fermanagh onto them.....we have to push up the field, and bring the game to Fermanagh on Sunday. We have proved that we can play this way in the league with some of our better performances resulting from our half forwards supporting McDonnell and Clarke.
Also, the break ball situation was no accident, Fermanagh had far more players in the midfield diamond waiting on the break, Armagh had very few........it's not rocket science, we need to get more bodies in there.
Bad news about Deegan, I remember he made a complete balls of the Armagh-Donegal replay in 2006 in Clones, the cards were like confetti.
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 22, 2008, 09:11:18 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 22, 2008, 09:07:43 AM
Deegan is whistle-happy alright.
Who will suffer most, Armagh or Fermanagh?
Normally I would say that Armagh suffer more than most from a fussy referee but in that match both teams suffered equally (although he did send Bellew off in the wrong that night).
QuoteThe word is he was saying to Stevie all day "You're shite . . . what have you won? you're shite!"
The word in the pub........very reliable. ;)
Is there anything Stevie hasn't won in an armagh jersey, either individually or as part of the team?
Eh, the lottery, or the cold war, america won that
Having settled myself a bit after Sunday's initial assessment, I doubt there'll be too many changes to the Armagh side. I reckon he may try and fit Donaghy in there somewhere and if he was going to do that it would be a HF that would lose out, therefore playing Donaghy at CHB giving us a far greater mobility while letting AOR sweep/roam. Something like
Hearty
Mallon, Bellew, F Mo
AOR
AK, Donaghy, CMcK
Toner, McGrane
Vernon/Mallon/PMcK, SK, MOR
Clarke McDonnell
QuoteAnd he was mouthing in his ear. All day
It didn't reflect well on him. All he had to do was stay in the goal and mind his own business, following another player around just to shout in his ear is not on.
I watched that and right enough he was being a proper w**ker ! He would come out of his goals with his hands behind his back and start slabbering - I think Stevie gave him the right answer by kicking over 5 beauties from play.
No need for this slabbering at all - he made a p***k of himself !
Quote from: Barney on July 22, 2008, 08:27:58 AM
If Maurice Deegan is the ref the entertainment value will be nil and there will be carnage.
Even a league run-out is ruined by his insistence on black booking for every foul, following by yellow and then red. Except a Garda escort.
Deegan was reffing out match on Saturday, let nothing go and was constantly bring back play. The game will be a complete contrast to the last day where nearly everything was let go. Fermanagh to win by 1...
Quote from: Croà na hÉireann on July 22, 2008, 12:03:04 PM
Quote from: Barney on July 22, 2008, 08:27:58 AM
If Maurice Deegan is the ref the entertainment value will be nil and there will be carnage.
Even a league run-out is ruined by his insistence on black booking for every foul, following by yellow and then red. Except a Garda escort.
Deegan was reffing out match on Saturday, let nothing go and was constantly bring back play. The game will be a complete contrast to the last day where nearly everything was let go. Fermanagh to win by 1...
Not looking forward to this at all ! :( :(
Quotelet nothing go
Does that include square balls?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 22, 2008, 12:17:31 PM
Quotelet nothing go
Does that include square balls?
and lets hope he knows when the difference between a throw ball and a proper fisted pass
Disappointed with the 2nd half collapse on Sunday, but if the game had went on any longer we could have been looking at the qualifiers, so was happy the game was over when it was (if that makes sense).
Once we went 8 points up we fell back into the old Armagh way of defending a lead rather than kicking on a finishing them off. Fair play to Fermanagh for coming back but it should never have happened.
Armagh looked a bit lethargic in the last 15 and just couldnt seem to get the ball and hold onto it.
A few players will be anxiously waiting to see this Sundays teamsheet.
Donaghy should be expecting a start and to a lesser extent Mc Keever.
Will be very suprised if we are turned over this Sunday. We are rarely defeated in replays & if the management have learned any lessons at all from Sunday it should go our way by 4/5 pts
Quote from: bennydorano on July 22, 2008, 11:43:31 AM
Having settled myself a bit after Sunday's initial assessment, I doubt there'll be too many changes to the Armagh side. I reckon he may try and fit Donaghy in there somewhere and if he was going to do that it would be a HF that would lose out, therefore playing Donaghy at CHB giving us a far greater mobility while letting AOR sweep/roam. Something like
Hearty
Mallon, Bellew, F Mo
AOR
AK, Donaghy, CMcK
Toner, McGrane
Vernon/Mallon/PMcK, SK, MOR
Clarke McDonnell
benny would agree wit you on the part than donaghy should start i would love to see the following line out
Hearty, A Mallon, Franco, Fin Mo, Donaghy, AOR, C Mckeever, McGrane, Toner, A kernan, MOR, B Mallon, Stevie, Clarke, S kernan
but i would leave aaron playin a more orthadox half forward role an bring stephen out to operate round the middle...
How is Mc Conville's fitness ? I thought it was very telling that Stevie continued to take a free even when Mc Conville came on !
Ulster all stars??
R Gallagher
A Mallon Bellew K McGuckin
T McElroy R McCluskey C McKeever
M McGrath D Gordon
E Maguire S Kiernan S Cavanagh
S McDonnell R Clarke S Johnston
Definitely a few very debatable positions here
Quote from: open her out on July 22, 2008, 01:03:02 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 22, 2008, 11:43:31 AM
Having settled myself a bit after Sunday's initial assessment, I doubt there'll be too many changes to the Armagh side. I reckon he may try and fit Donaghy in there somewhere and if he was going to do that it would be a HF that would lose out, therefore playing Donaghy at CHB giving us a far greater mobility while letting AOR sweep/roam. Something like
Hearty
Mallon, Bellew, F Mo
AOR
AK, Donaghy, CMcK
Toner, McGrane
Vernon/Mallon/PMcK, SK, MOR
Clarke McDonnell
benny would agree wit you on the part than donaghy should start i would love to see the following line out
Hearty, A Mallon, Franco, Fin Mo, Donaghy, AOR, C Mckeever, McGrane, Toner, A kernan, MOR, B Mallon, Stevie, Clarke, S kernan
but i would leave aaron playin a more orthadox half forward role an bring stephen out to operate round the middle...
Aaron Kernan would be lost in the half forward line. The reason he looks good on the ball is he's given space, space that is presented from playing in defence! - He was denied space in the second half on Sunday & thus had an off day! I don't think he, Vernon or anyone else will be as casual coming out of defence the next day!
Possibly but Brendan Donaghy will offer us more defensive cover. Fermanaghs ploy sunday of putting little on aaron to expose his definsive weaknesses wroked well for them. I think aaron has enough ability to excell in the half forward line,
Mcgrane Toner
AK SK
MOR
Mallon/Mckeever
Mcdonnell Clarke
i cant see any weakness in playing a formation like that against fermanagh. Im not totally convinced on Charlie making an impact at inter county level...
Quote from: FromAFar on July 22, 2008, 01:16:12 PM
Ulster all stars??
R Gallagher
A Mallon Bellew K McGuckin
T McElroy R McCluskey C McKeever
M McGrath D Gordon
E Maguire S Kiernan S Cavanagh
S McDonnell R Clarke S Johnston
Definitely a few very debatable positions here
Cavanagh played 2games in ulster championship against us, in the 2nd he was totally ineffective. I'd take him out of the eqaution and replace him with Ryan Keenan. I know Keenan's frees on sunday were woeful but his workrate is immense, and against monaghan and derry he was exellent
R Gallagher
A Mallon Bellew L Howard
T McElroy R McCluskey A O'Rourke
M McGrath D Gordon
C McElroy S Kernan M Little
S McDonnell R Clarke E Maguire
Quote from: open her out on July 22, 2008, 01:48:03 PM
Possibly but Brendan Donaghy will offer us more defensive cover. Fermanaghs ploy sunday of putting little on aaron to expose his definsive weaknesses wroked well for them. I think aaron has enough ability to excell in the half forward line,
Mcgrane Toner
AK SK
MOR
Mallon/Mckeever
Mcdonnell Clarke
i cant see any weakness in playing a formation like that against fermanagh. Im not totally convinced on Charlie making an impact at inter county level...
There's a few boys on here being a bit harsh on Vernon, FFS lads, it was his third appearance in championship football. Yes, he has been poor at times in all three matches and if he was dropped for Sunday I wouldn't be that surprised but saying that he may not make an impact on intercounty football at all is OTT. I think his point against Cavan has shown a glimpse of his potential as he has done that at college, inter county underage and club football repeatedly.
Quote from: FermGael on July 22, 2008, 12:37:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 22, 2008, 12:17:31 PM
Quotelet nothing go
Does that include square balls?
and lets hope he knows when the difference between a throw ball and a proper fisted pass
Ferm, I presume you're talking about the free given against Little in the dying minutes. It was clearly a legitimate hand pass but he took a mad dive and in my mind anyway deserved nothing (at the time I presumed the ref gave the free out for the dive).
I have a feeling its going to take a 2nd replay after this weekend. I just dont think either side is yet good enough to represent Ulster in the last 8.
Quote from: orangeman on July 22, 2008, 01:10:01 PM
How is Mc Conville's fitness ? I thought it was very telling that Stevie continued to take a free even when Mc Conville came on !
Mc Conville looked stiff and unfit, But he did make an attempt at a free kick and missed it, you must have forgot about that one Orangeman,
Quote from: scud on July 22, 2008, 02:16:21 PM
R Gallagher
A Mallon Bellew L Howard
T McElroy R McCluskey A O'Rourke
M McGrath D Gordon
C McElroy S Kernan M Little
S McDonnell R Clarke E Maguire
CB is a very open choice, in my opinion noone stands out for the position. Im wary of bein to pro fermanagh but i feel that s goan has to be in with a shot here, he was excellent against Derry (PBradley) & also against Monaghan (T Freeman). Ok his man scored 4pts from play on sunday but would many others hav stopped mcdonnell in that form?
I also think that its hard to leave out s johnston, 8pts against antrim and 6 pts against armagh is enough in my opinion.
Eamon's a good bet for one but i think only one of keenan, little & mcElroy can be considered.
Martin orourke is probably out of contention due to his red card against down but it showed on Sunday when he went off how important he is to Armagh. He would be an automatic starter on most teams in Ireland.
Why would MOR be out of contention when he started the last day, what do you mean
Any chance we could see three Kernans starting. I think Tony is a great little player. Good vision, can see and deliver an accurate pass and can bomb over from long range as well as being a very decent free-taker. He's a brave lad who'll give his all. I have heard people say that he doesn't see a lot of the ball. I think his movement creates a lot of space for the front two and he tracks back hard (the way we seem to play, and I don't think we'll vary too much from that this Sunday).
As Mackers as said, it's not rocket science. If we have more bodies around the middle anticipating breaks and actually there to win them we'll have much more possession. We sat back waiting for Fermanagh to come to us, causing us to panic. While Owens made a nuisance of himself, that's all he did. I don't think Francie would have too many sleepless nights about facing him; he'smarked better full forwards than Owens and bettered them. Owens is a super footballer, and I'd prefer to see him up front (where I think he could be contained) rather than playing at the back where he'd be better at snuffing the threat of Clarke and give the Ferm backline a platform. Perhaps he's not yet fit to play in the backline.
Also, it has been mentioned before, but why did we continually fire balls straight down the middle. If we are not getting 50% then pull Vernon (if he keeps his place) out to the the sideline and hit him - at the very least vary it.
My team:
Hearty (Just. I do think Owens could start and that means a lot of high balls. McKinney may not have the height).
Andy Francine Finn Mo (done nothing wrong)
CMcKeever AoR AK
McGrane / Toner
MOR B Mallon Donaghy
McDonnell Clarke T Kernan
I'd start Tony ahead of Stephen. Although McDonnell will prob start Stephen, I'd xpect him to have a very good game despite my wish to see Jr start.
Donaghy is an excellent reader of the game and I think if he's be ore effective sitting back alongside AoR while taking responsibility from B Mallon,allowing him to provide a constant half forward link.
It's really easy, isn't it. ;D
Quote from: mackers on July 22, 2008, 02:21:42 PM
Ferm, I presume you're talking about the free given against Little in the dying minutes. It was clearly a legitimate hand pass but he took a mad dive and in my mind anyway deserved nothing (at the time I presumed the ref gave the free out for the dive).
That would be the one. The free was definitely given for a throw ball
Its very easy from an armagh point of view to throw the baby out with the bath water. certainly armagh quit playing with 20/25 minutes to go and allowed fermanagh back into the game, but they controlled comfortably til that point.
I'd suggest that the majority of armagh's work this week needs to be done in their heads. i hope the quest for redemption after letting things slip from their grasp last week would bring a heightened aggression and intensity to their game and i fully expect a strong reaction. Fermanagh had no answers to a focussed and aggressive armagh in the first 45 minutes on sunday and that focus needs to be stretched over the full game.
Personally i believe the double substitution, bringing on McKeever and McConville nack fired for two reasons. first, it appeared to be based in sentimentality and when fermanagh inevitibly drove from their half back line, neither had the legs to track their men. secondly, the very action of making the changes sent out the message that management believed the ame was wrapped up and those on the pitch took the foot off the gas - however subconsciously that decision may have been taken.
although there were quite a few below par showings, i feel these fellas deserve the chance to rectify their own performances. i'd name the same team but have lads on very short leash. Donaghy must be very very close but ak is a fine footballer and can increase his contribution 10 fold. the same applies to vernon, mcgrane, sk, right down the line.
A few things glaringly need addressed though. why o why do our backs insist on carrying the ball? fermanagh are busy dropping back as our lads toe tap for the cameras. we have the most devastating inside pairing in the game and we completely starved them of the ball until fermanagh had swamped them with bodies. that McDonnell kicked 5 points from play with that sort of traffic around him is astounding. also, the tactic of sitting aor back at kick outs is flawed. his man won tons of break ball and he has to be marked for kick outs. from open play aor has done and did a great job but we are gifting fermanagh an exrta body in there for winning the breaks.
lastly, I'm a bit perplexed on what Vernon's role is. i'm not sure if he's meant to be a third midifelder or a half forward? if he's midfielder then fair enough but lets see him competing for ball and linking play as well as tracking and tackling. if he's a half forward then we need to see him getting forward to support. he did very little of either role sunday and maybe the lad himself is confused?
all in all it was a bad day at the office for management and players but the manner of the collapse and the fal out since could well be the catalyst for them to kick on.
Quote from: FermGael on July 22, 2008, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: mackers on July 22, 2008, 02:21:42 PM
Ferm, I presume you're talking about the free given against Little in the dying minutes. It was clearly a legitimate hand pass but he took a mad dive and in my mind anyway deserved nothing (at the time I presumed the ref gave the free out for the dive).
That would be the one. The free was definitely given for a throw ball
Yeah, should have been for the dive. can lads get booked for diving?
Yeah, should have been for the dive. can lads get booked for diving?
[/quote]
Unless the ref can categorise it under something else there is nothing in the rulebook. Sure Martin O'Rourke wouldn't last a game if there was :P
Vernon would be far better suited in the centre (MF or CHF), the WF role is one he only plays for Armagh, I never thought he looked comfortable even at U21 County level playing it. He's a natural defender/Midfielder, I think he's too inexperienced to play MF at the moment but will end up there some day soon.
It looks fairly obvious that he's been given a specific job, that involves doing donkey work that goes largely unnoticed (I watched the game last night and thought he looked ok on TV,whereas I thought he was poor enough while at the game). I can clearly remember McGrane giving off to him at the Cavan game for going for a ball in centre MF- so it obviously is part of the plan.
I'd love to see him line out at CHF on Sunday with Donaghy CHB(AOR sweeping) and both in the mix for fielding & break ball.
It will be interesting to see what McDonnell does, nothing major I'd expect.
Quote from: inisceithleann on July 21, 2008, 04:02:04 PM
The situation with the crowd on the hill was a joke yesterday. I arrived at 11.40 and we weren't allowed in. The stewards wanted clarification from the Ulster Council that the Hill Terrace actually meant the Hill and not the O'Duffy terracing behind the goals. I asked some official how they had left it to an hour after the place opened to get this clarification and he told me to effectively get lost. The crowd began to get bigger and they still weren't letting us in. Thankfully somebody gave the go ahead but clearly from other people's posts the organisation seems to be have been a shambles. One of the stewards said that problems with overcrowding occured at the Down V Armagh game and they didn't want it repeated.
That's an absoute disgrace. I was at the Armagh v Down game the last day and could only get tickets for the Hill (which wasn't ideal as I have young chlidren). That day I probably spent more time keeping an eye out to make sure they weren't being trampled, than I probably did as to what was going on on the field. the Hill was absoultely bunged - steps and passageways packed full with spectators. I couldn't understand why the O'Duffy terrace looked so empty. When you're in that type of situation you can't help but think of major disasters that have happened in other sporting stadiums.
For Sunday's game we were in the Eastern stand, and the problem there was that a lot of people sat wherever they felt like (and not according to seats per ticket) - and other people came along to sit in the seats as printed on their tickets - and nobody would move. when I watched the match later that evening you could see a few empty sections within the stand, and yet the reality was in other sections people were virtually sitting on top of each other.
Health and safety issues should be a major priority - but what can you do when you have stewards who obviously either cannot read, or have not familarised themselves with the layout of the grounds? The ground regulations as per programme states "a person may not obstruct a gangway, stairway or circulation area at any time". At the Down v Armagh game the stewards and the garda let people congregate like that well before throw-in but did not move them on. Could they not see that the O'Duffy terrace or any other areas have spare capacity and move people onto those areas rather than excluding them totally? I feel sorry for those people then who did not get into the ground, when they had paid for their tickets - especially when it is down to poor organisation on the GAA's part. It's a shame that this situation was allowed to happen again, and spoiled the day for so many.
The Health and Safety Executive should come down heavy on these clowns in the Ulster Council and force them to get their act together before there's a major disaster in Clones. Someone of my acquaintance complained to a steward in Clones a few years ago about a seating issue. Your man wasn't interested. Then my friend saw a green blazer down by the fence and approached him, in very courteous terms. The response? "If you don't stop causing trouble you'll find yourself outside the gate"!
I was in the O'Duffy terrace, which wasn't unpleasantly overcrowded. However my ticket said enter by gate x1-x9 (not sure of the number) but I couldn't reconcile this number with the numbers actually on the gates at the O'Duffy terrace. Surely it is possible to put the right gate number on the ticket!
them numbers mean nothing, you can just go through any gate
QuoteVernon would be far better suited in the centre (MF or CHF), the WF role is one he only plays for Armagh, I never thought he looked comfortable even at U21 County level playing it. He's a natural defender/Midfielder, I think he's too inexperienced to play MF at the moment but will end up there some day soon.
Charlie's hardly much less experienced than Kieran Toner particularrly given his experience at Sigerson level. I do think we need to make a change somewhere around the centre. The half back line had a poor match but its been our strongest line all year so I wouldn't t**ker with it yet. Possibly play Vernon at midfield and DOnaghy in the half forwards. It'd be harsh on Toner to lose his place but he could always been brought in.
The other issue is whether we can afford to play both Brian Mallon and Stephen Kernan in the same forward line given their lack of physicality which can impact on the amount of breaking ball they win.
Dont know if you picked me up wrong Tac but I certainly wasn't advocating Vernon instead of Toner: in addition to as a third MF'er or CHF. Toner was one of our star performers on Sunday IMO.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 22, 2008, 05:58:20 PM
Dont know if you picked me up wrong Tac but I certainly wasn't advocating Vernon instead of Toner: in addition to as a third MF'er or CHF. Toner was one of our star performers on Sunday IMO.
I too thought Toner was very good but Armagh simply couldn't get a ball in the last 20 minutes - not even a break !
Quote from: D4S on July 22, 2008, 02:07:59 PM
Quote from: FromAFar on July 22, 2008, 01:16:12 PM
Ulster all stars??
R Gallagher
A Mallon Bellew K McGuckin
T McElroy R McCluskey C McKeever
M McGrath D Gordon
E Maguire S Kiernan S Cavanagh
S McDonnell R Clarke S Johnston
Definitely a few very debatable positions here
Cavanagh played 2games in ulster championship against us, in the 2nd he was totally ineffective. I'd take him out of the eqaution and replace him with Ryan Keenan. I know Keenan's frees on sunday were woeful but his workrate is immense, and against monaghan and derry he was exellent
Are you sure you were at the game? Cavanagh played out of position and still scored 3 from play, won 2 or 3 very scoreable frees and set up a couple of other points.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 21, 2008, 02:38:20 PM
PS Anyone else, like me, on this Board,able to claim that they have attended both Armagh Fermanagh Ulster Finals, in 1982 and 2008?
God you are really, really great.
I`d love you as my favourite mate.
Ì`d be your friend and listen to all the words you say,
In fact whenever you post i do feel a tiny bit gay.
You are the fountain of knowledge and the reason for my life,
In fact i might marry you and ditch my wife.
You are the cream of the milk you are the flake in my ice-cream,
Whenver i close my eyes its of you that i dream.
I suppose you got a free ticket in `82.
in reference to the hill on sunday how come it has become so over crowded, im sure in previous years i presume clones sold out for matches 2-3 times a year with a certain amount of tickets allocated to the hill. what makes the ulster council think that it can now hold more people??? sunday past was a disgrace about 20 minutes into the senior match 2 garda officers started forcing people in in front of me an it was packed before they started if this continues someone will get hurt.
IF YOU ASK ME ITS PURE AN UTTER GREED!!!!!
An accusation of greed is unfair, for one thing if there are few tickets, like Tyrone and Louth, and fans cannot attend then there is criticism then too. When the Ulster final was in Croke Pk this greed word was around when all that was happening was that more people were able to go.
One wonders if some of the people there did not have tickets, but secrured entry by climbing over the fence, giving a backhander to the gateman, going to wrong part of the ground or whatever.
From an Armagh point of view I was wondering if we have to find a place for Tony Kernan on Sunday if Maurice Deegan is referee. There is bound to be plenty of frees and this could prove decisive.
Quote from: Throw ball on July 22, 2008, 07:58:56 PM
From an Armagh point of view I was wondering if we have to find a place for Tony Kernan on Sunday if Maurice Deegan is referee. There is bound to be plenty of frees and this could prove decisive.
Would he offer much from play? Would offer more than oisin did when he came on anyway
Am a wee bit disappointed with the result on Sunday, but at least we have another bite at the cherry. Unbelievable relief after Doc hit that point, followed by disappointment on the way home.
From my point of view i'm very confident that we will finish the job come sunday. Everyone has commented on how Armagh stopped playing but by the same token Fermangh didn't even start to play for 50mins. I thought although Armagh were the better side in the first half, it had a lot to do with the Fermanagh players forgetting how they got their in the first place and played into Armaghs hands. Forwards were heading straight down the middle and either getting dispossessed of turning back and giving it to a static man. The running and support play was substituted for individuality. Despite that we still more than broke even in midfield while playing cr%p, whereas Armagh were shocking when Fermanagh finally decided that it was either now or never.
As someone else mentioned I thought the Armagh subs didn't work and the manager didn't seem to trust the younger players. Why he put McConville on, and then let McDonell continue with the frees was a bit bizarre.
Although it didn't work on Sunday, I have heard more than one player say that you an get to McDonnell by talking in his ear. Now i'm not saying it is right, but teams do what they can in these situations.
The fans were as bad on both sides, people booing frees and all that craic is really disappointing
i wouldn class playing an ulster final in hq as greed id view it as a compliment to ulster teams an supporters that it takes such a venue to stage a game involving say armagh, tyrone, fermanagh.
i would just like to know how many hill tickets were released for the ulster final in 2002 and how many were released for this years ive never seen the hill as full before an i rarely go to any other part of the ground.
Quote from: wanderer on July 22, 2008, 08:53:59 PM
Am a wee bit disappointed with the result on Sunday, but at least we have another bite at the cherry. Unbelievable relief after Doc hit that point, followed by disappointment on the way home.
From my point of view i'm very confident that we will finish the job come sunday. Everyone has commented on how Armagh stopped playing but by the same token Fermangh didn't even start to play for 50mins. I thought although Armagh were the better side in the first half, it had a lot to do with the Fermanagh players forgetting how they got their in the first place and played into Armaghs hands. Forwards were heading straight down the middle and either getting dispossessed of turning back and giving it to a static man. The running and support play was substituted for individuality. Despite that we still more than broke even in midfield while playing cr%p, whereas Armagh were shocking when Fermanagh finally decided that it was either now or never.
As someone else mentioned I thought the Armagh subs didn't work and the manager didn't seem to trust the younger players. Why he put McConville on, and then let McDonell continue with the frees was a bit bizarre.Although it didn't work on Sunday, I have heard more than one player say that you an get to McDonnell by talking in his ear. Now i'm not saying it is right, but teams do what they can in these situations.
The fans were as bad on both sides, people booing frees and all that craic is really disappointing
A few other posters have mentioned this also but after McConville came on, McDonnell only took one free which he pulled wide, McConville took the next one and missed it. Not a major issue.........the fact that we couldn't get the ball up to that end of the field is more of a worry.
On the Hill issue, there were 4,500 too many on it for the Down match as the O'Duffy terrace tickets were issued with The Hill terrace on them. For me, it wasn't as full as it was on Sunday.....never saw a more tightly packed terrace. Needs to be looked into and fast.
Quotei would just like to know how many hill tickets were released for the ulster final in 2002
The ground was not full in 2002, Donegal people do not support their team as Fermanagh people do.
maybe not but im sure armagh an tyrone filled clones before but the hill has never been as full as it has been for both the down and the ferm games
The twentieth of July, at last the day did come,
The day of the Fermanagh exodus, to Clones in the Sun,
That day we all awoke early, adults, children, one and all,
For sleepin' don't come easy, when glory it does call
So we headed down the road, through the Bridge, towards Roslea,
And though there wasn't time for Mass, for the boys we all did pray,
The jerseys had all been ironed, the banners had all been made,
But we didn't eat any apples, for the Orchard we were to raid
Clones town 'twas full of colour, and the green was to the 'fore,
Sure Armagh they have won it loads, do they bother any more?
The craic was ninety in the Paragon, the Guinness how it did flow,
But only for us Erne men, for Armagh drink Buckie don't ya know?
The banter was good so in the end, the minor match 'twas traded for beer,
I heard was Tyrone that won it, but sure isn't it all they'll win this year?
And even before the main game started, one victory we had seen,
For every Fermanagh beauty met, was fairer than an Armagh Cailin
When the time arrived to head up the hill, towards St. Tiernach's Park,
A question still drummed in our ears, "how to stop McD and Clarke?"
For with Owensy still out injured, and Clucker at Centre Back,
A niggling doubt it still remained, could we handle this attack?
But as we took up our position, up on the Hill, above the McGrane,
Any thoughts that we were happy just to be there, quickly they did wane,
For this team hadn't lost in Seventy, since Mal had taken the reins,
And it's not for the want of a loser's medal, that a footballer he does train
So when the lads ran onto the pitch, boy did we shout and scream,
For history it did beckon, and we did dare to dream
The first ten minutes were shared, and Tommy got a great score,
But when Armagh upped a gear, we had less space than ever before,
McDonnell pointed freely, and the Orangemen exerted control,
Then Fermanagh heads were in our hands, when Moriarty got the goal
For whilst plenty of time on the clock remained, we thought of that said all week,
That Fermanagh only fluked their goals, and 3 pointers Armagh would not leak,
But time would show that Armagh fans, often talk a pile of sh¦te,
The fact that they've been drunk since birth, still doesn't make it right
We went in at half time, five points down, and not too full of cheer,
But we knew we were a second half team, and this gap could disappear
We flew out of the blocks at the restart, but quick points we had to get,
Instead we got a killer blow, when Clarkey found the net
Seven points down, half an hour to play, then Stevie made it eight,
But we'd been in similar positions before, so no-one headed for the gate,
For weren't we six points down in Parnell, and seven against An Dhoire,
The scoreboard it said otherwise, but out hearts said "do not worry"
At that time we needed heroes, to turn the game on its head,
And so up stepped our Captain, McGrath by example led,
He catched it clean, he broke the ball, he pointed from far out,
Aided by Womble and Macsy, he controlled the midfield bout
So we chipped away, and we got some scores, with each man playing his role,
And the game was turned on its head, when Maguire got the goal,
Now these Armagh fans are myopic, 'tis probably from fighting the Brits,
For whilst they all saw Wee Man in the Square, Clarke's five steps they did miss
After the goal we owned the ball, but the clock it began to run down,
For all the possession, and all the frees, the scores could not be found,
McDonnell scored with every kick, and we feared it was slippin' away,
The end in sight, still three points down, only minutes left to play
But we plugged away, and got two scores, Owens and Doc were now on the pitch
The despair of defeat, the relief of a draw, one minute to decide which,
Once again we turned the ball over, but time was nearly up,
It landed on the right with Doc, he'd one kick to save the Cup,
Doc looked up, his leg went back, he let fly for the goals afar,
Fifteen thousand Fermanagh souls, willed the O'Neills over the bar
Seventy minutes couldn't separate it, so its back to Clones now next week,
And if you listen to the Armagh fans, Fermanagh's future still looks bleak,
The boat they say has come and gone, Fermanagh men left in her wake,
But they don't realise that around the Erne, there's plenty a boats that we can take
For we won't give them an eight point start again, nor we won't miss from 14 yards,
On Sunday we both showed our hands, and 'tis Fermanagh that hold the best cards,
This Fermanagh team don't care for records, or the glory of teams now past,
For in Clones we showed we're too good for Armagh, too hungry, too mobile, too fast
So we'll go to Clones not full of hope, like so many times before,
Instead on Sunday we expect to win, to secure our own folklore,
For even if they're a bit bigger, and somewhat more experienced too,
Sometimes you can't defeat a man, who wants it more than you,
This insatiable appetite for victory, will see us reign supreme,
At five o clock on Sunday, crowned Ulster's greatest team!
Fear Manach Abú
Brilliant. Especially
QuoteNow these Armagh fans are myopic, 'tis probably from fighting the Brits,
For whilst they all saw Wee Man in the Square, Clarke's five steps they did miss
and
QuoteThe boat they say has come and gone, Fermanagh men left in her wake,
But they don't realise that around the Erne, there's plenty a boats that we can take
Very good. As good a summary as any I've read.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 22, 2008, 09:21:55 PM
Quotei would just like to know how many hill tickets were released for the ulster final in 2002
The ground was not full in 2002, Donegal people do not support their team as Fermanagh people do.
Correct re the attendance - the final attendance that year was just over 30,000, making it the third highest Ulster Championship attendance that year behind the two Armagh v Tyrone games.
The final attendance this year of over 34,000 was big, but not as big as Tyrone v Cavan (2001) which was 35,000 plus, and Armagh v Down (1999) which was 36,000 plus.
Quote from: barryownsafarm on July 22, 2008, 10:19:09 PM
At that time we needed heroes, to turn the game on its head,
And so up stepped our Captain, McGrath by example led,
He catched it clean, he broke the ball, he pointed from far out,
Nice one BarryOwnsAFarm (but you muist have some serious spare time!). Especially liked the quote above as I think it summed up what turned the game. McGrath was outstanding and hopefully there be more of the same on Sunday.
Anyone got a view on how many will be there this week - seems to be same pressure on tickets this week?
Tony
I was there in 82, only a cub at the time but remember it well. I know a fair few boys that were also but don't think any post on here. Was reminded again recently about the Fermangh Team photo from 82 with Kieran Donnelly as mascot, why isn't that done anymore - think of the memories/goodwill etc it would bring and lets face it if the soccer boys can manage it i'm sure we can.
Off now to wash my lucky Fermanagh top for Sunday- we've never lost an Ulster Final I've worn it to :P
Our club got the same amount of tickets as last week, which was a bit suprising thought there would have been more because there's no minor match, maybe they'll send 5,000 to Kilkenny for the womens' match?
Glens let McCabe play in replay
Shane McCabe will concentrate on soccer duties after the final
Glentoran manager Alan McDonald has given Shane McCabe permission to play for Fermanagh in Sunday's Ulster GAA football final replay against Armagh.
The Glens had expected last Sunday's provincial decider to be McCabe's last gaelic game before reverting to his duties with the Premiership club.
The draw against Armagh meant one more match for McCabe, four days before the Glens play a Uefa Cup game in Latvia.
"I fully understand the situation," said Glentoran manager Alan McDonald.
McCabe started last Sunday's match at Clones after being called up as a late replacement for Liam McBarron.
The Glens travel on Tuesday for their Uefa game against SK Liepajas Metalurgs, the teams having drawn 1-1 at the Oval last week.
Good on the Glens, theyve gained a lot of respect over the last couple of week's in the manner they have handled this situation.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but did anyone see the Armagh sub who was warming up pushing the linesman in the second half? In light of the whole Paul Galvin scenario, he would be lucky to get away with that
I heard abotu that but did not see it on tv.
It was Big McKenna, he kicked the ball away & the Fermanagh lads pushed him, he pushed back, probably didn't realise the linesman was one of those who he pushed.
Sounds like nothing. I was surprised to see him come on , would prefer Sweift and ONeill but to be honest, I have not see n overly much of him.
Quote from: southdown on July 23, 2008, 01:51:32 PM
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but did anyone see the Armagh sub who was warming up pushing the linesman in the second half? In light of the whole Paul Galvin scenario, he would be lucky to get away with that
Saw that. Joe McQuillan shot a look in the referees direction as to say "I've just been manhandled" but then realised that the sub wasn't on the field. What can the referee do in these circumstances, send the sub to the stands and not permit him to come on/warm up???
Quote from: Croà na hÉireann on July 23, 2008, 02:18:33 PM
Quote from: southdown on July 23, 2008, 01:51:32 PM
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but did anyone see the Armagh sub who was warming up pushing the linesman in the second half? In light of the whole Paul Galvin scenario, he would be lucky to get away with that
Saw that. Joe McQuillan shot a look in the referees direction as to say "I've just been manhandled" but then realised that the sub wasn't on the field. What can the referee do in these circumstances, send the sub to the stands and not permit him to come on/warm up???
Yup a straight red still bans him for a month...At least!
Quote from: southdown on July 23, 2008, 01:51:32 PM
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but did anyone see the Armagh sub who was warming up pushing the linesman in the second half? In light of the whole Paul Galvin scenario, he would be lucky to get away with that
He pushed a fermanagh player not the linesman,
He pushed the linesman too
Everyone seems to think Fermanagh have missed the boat. I disagree. This game will have got rid of the nerves and tension and will allow the Erne men to lose the shackles and play the football they played in the last 25 minutes last Sunday for the full 70 minutes this Sunday. Armagh are nowhere near as fit as Fermanagh and will need to take another 8 point lead with less than 20 on the clock if they are going to hold on this weekend....
ARMAGH 1-10 FERMANAGH 1-13 8)
Take your Red and Black glasses off son, He pushed the fermangh player and the linesman was behind him
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 23, 2008, 02:45:42 PM
This game will have got rid of the nerves and tension
Surely nerves was not a big factor?
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2008, 03:03:17 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 23, 2008, 02:45:42 PM
This game will have got rid of the nerves and tension
Surely nerves was not a big factor?
NONE OF THESE FERMANAGH LADS HAVE PLAYED IN AN ULSTER FINAL, SOME NOT EVEN IN A FERMANAGH COUNTY FINAL. THE HYPE AND THE BUZZ IN THE COUNTY WAS FANTASTIC LAST WEEK
THERE WERE NERVES, IT WAS PLAIN TO SEE HOW THEY PERFORMED IN THE 1ST HALF WITH SOME BASIC MISTAKES AND SOME PLAYERS AFRAID TO MAKE MISTAKES, TAKE CHANCES OR LOSING THEIR HEAD A LITTLE.
IF THERE WEREN'T THEN THEY WERE EITHER NOT BOTHERED OR NOT HUMAN.
So Armagh making basic mistakes in the second half was nerves too?
Plenty of them ahve played in an All-Ireland semi, those lads would not be too bothered about nerves.
Armagh were outplayed and outclassed in the 2nd half after Fermanagh decided to go for broke...
Fermanagh were outplayed and outclassed in the first half when Armagh decided to go for broke.
they were both outplayed and outclassed as both teams decided to go for broke
spot on Deel. :)
thanks Corn i'm a pundit in my spare time ;)
Is the tickets out yet? whats the story on them? Hens teeth or whats the craic?
YeeeeeeeeeeeeHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! ;D
WE ARE GOING TO DESTROY ARMAGH ON SUNDAY!
Pos Team Pl W L D F A Dif Pts
--- ---------------------------- -- -- -- -- ---- ---- ---- ---
1. Fermanagh 7 6 0 1 8-80 4-75 17 13
NFL DIV II
Pos Team Pl W L D F A Dif Pts
4. Armagh 7 3 3 1 10-82 8-67 21 7
I know we were div 3 and Armagh were in two but Fermanagh remain unbeaten in 70 minutes football in 2008 and this is a top achievement by any county's standards.
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 23, 2008, 03:56:09 PM
Is the tickets out yet? whats the story on them? Hens teeth or whats the craic?
probably not even printed yet Onion Bag!
Yeah they are out Harps have theirs.
Got mine this morning. Not as good as last week but hopefully a good result will compensate!
What's the story for tickets this sunday lads?
Is there really going to be as big a crowd this week? Got my ticket last week for pat mcgrane through a tyrone connection, there would have been about 5000-6000 id say there from monaghan & tyrone combined. Will fermanagh and armagh get this surplus?Will they be required? Id love to go again last sunday was a great second half was great excitement!
Is the replay on TV anywhere...? BBC maybe....!!!!?...........anyone know.?
Just checked BBC NI and definitely on BBC coverage from 2.55-5.00!
Outstanding - thanks for that...!
Not even going to get into the ins and outs of the game yet. Can't wait for Sunday though.
Noticed an amazing statistic in the Independant today from official Vodafone statistics - Ryan McCluskey hit 38 passes ovber the course of the game and not one of them went astray. His poor effort for a point at the start of the second half did end up with the ball in the net at the other end however. Have never seen a cooler man in possession. His attitude in the second half was to my mind the kick-start to our comeback. He led, Marty followed and with Ciaran and Tommy McElroy they carried the rest to levels way beyond what Armagh could match.
Fermanagh wer only gettin started on sunday. nxt sunday they will come out nd raid armagh. they are a far fitter team nd armagh cant keep up with them. many ppl say that fermanagh hav missed their chance and that armagh went up by 8 points nd dey lay down because they thought they had it won. if this was the case armagh wud hav realised they needed 2 up their game but they jst cudnt keep up with fermanagh. ovr this week fermanagh will b the team who will b able 2 fix their game and tactices and they will destroy armagh nxt weekend.
fermanagh 2 win by 4. ;D
Quotefermanagh will b the team who will b able 2 fix their game
We'll see. It is easier for Armagh to up their workrate than have a whole new set of tactics.
Perhaps you could also fix the shift key and the vowel keys on your keyboard.
Watched the game there on Setanta earlier. Fermanagh got on a roll in the last 20 mins when they decided they had nothing to lose and just went for broke. When a team gets a head of steam like that, they're hard to stop. They won't do this for 70 minutes the next day though and i'd expect Armagh to tighten up around the middle for breaks and keep things tighter, in terms of shape and posession as the game wears on. The one niggling question i have is whether this Fermanagh comeback in recent games is all part of a cunning plan to finish strong late in games, or is it just the way events have panned out?
Armagh were wiped out around the middle against Down. Analysis was they've learned from that and will certainly improve in that sector for the next day. Instead for the final they were even worse, or were even more dominated. They didn't tighten up for the final, is it now a case that they simply can't?
I think Fermanagh are much better when the pressure's off just, and when they go in as underdogs, again with no real pressure. They must start believing though and fulfil their potential under O'Rourke. Think after last week they will.
Wouldnt say its deliberate to be chasing a game in final 10, but they now know they can do it, which is acredit to them against a team who are synonomous with closing a game out. If Armagh cant close them out this Sunday and are only a point or two ahead into the final ten, have a feeling Fermanagh will take them.
Finishing late may reflect the tight low scoring games sometimes open up a bit towards the end, it would be a dangerous strategy to rely too much on this. In the last 20 mins Fermanagh believed that if they didn't play out of their skins that the Ulster dream was lost, Armagh believed that they'd probably be able to hang on.
Experience can be a good teacher and when pride is at stake an improvement can occur, you only have to compare Armagh's performance against Meath in the league against their performance against Dublin. Fermanagh can tweak their tactics, but I doubt if they can try any harder than they did for that 20 mins.
The game put paid to the myth that Francie never kicks the ball, he made a fine kick pass to Clarke in the first half, unfortunately this resulted in Ronan's worse miss of the game, even that one would have made a difference!
Hearty (just about)
Andy Mallon/Francie Bellew/Finton Mo (is Enda match fit)
AK/Mc Keever/AOR
Mc Grane/Vernon
MOR/Brian Mallon/PMK
Mc Donnell/Clarke/SK
The Armagh half back and half forwards need to support the midfield unit better on Sunday. Mc Grane was punching balls down and only Fermanagh men infront of him. If Armagh can win more breaking ball around midfield on sunday i believe they will win, we have one of the best FF lines in the country, any ball (good or bad) that went in ended up in a score. No disrespect to fermanagh but i believe we are better in every position 1-15, Armagh took their foot of the pedal and it looked like a repeat of Donegal 2006. A good kick up the arse was needed, Armagh by 5
QuoteIt is easier for Armagh to up their workrate than have a whole new set of tactics.
yes well we didnt see this workrate from armagh on sunday they coudnt even get a score in the last 20 mintues. some workrate that is. armagh had a 8 point lead and they still couldnt put fermanagh away. i think armagh need to watch out cause fermanagh will be out 2 win
Quote from: McManus. on July 23, 2008, 11:21:16 PM
QuoteIt is easier for Armagh to up their workrate than have a whole new set of tactics.
yes well we didnt see this workrate from armagh on sunday they coudnt even get a score in the last 20 mintues. some workrate that is. armagh had a 8 point lead and they still couldnt put fermanagh away. i think armagh need to watch out cause fermanagh will be out 2 win
Good shout Mc Manus. Hope Peter Mc Donnells reading.
Quoteyes well we didnt see this workrate from armagh on sunday
Really? I am sure the highly paid pundits like Brolly didn't notice that one. I'll pass it on to the Armagh camp.
aye well they are only backing armagh as a safe bet. it suits all us fermanagh ones to be underdogs.
For good portions of the Down and Fermanagh games Armagh competed ok at midfield - it's not true to say they were completely wiped out. The last 20 mins in both games was a big problem obviously. McGrane has been accused of tiring late in games, but he has been competing well with his direct opponents , winning and breaking the ball - its the Armagh half backs and half forwards who haven't contributed enough. Not sure if it's a lack of hunger, wrong tactics or whatever, but there simply were not enough bodies in there competing for the ball with Fermanagh men in that last 20. A fully fit Martin O'Rourke staying on the pitch for the full 70 would be a good help too.
fair enough armagh did play a good game in the first half. but they simply are not fit enough to finish the 70mins. they have players on that team which are well ovr 30. fermanagh have a young and fit team they proved this on sunday that they were running rings around the armagh boys. armagh dont have enough power or strenght to see off fermanagh and i cant see this armagh team going much further.
You could be right Mc Manus!! You just could be right!!
If i were from Fermanagh i'd be confident too, based on that last 20 mins or so. But the first 50 mins wasn't exactly great was it? It's hard to know if Armagh can get things fixed at midfield in time, as others have said it has been an ongoing problem area. But if i was a Fermanagh supporter i'd be hoping for my own team to show a lot more composure in front of the posts.
fermanagh wernt great in the first 50mins but we all believe it was nerves none if these boys have ever been in a ulster final but when they realised that they have the skills to win they went into action. fermanagh will come out on sunday and will play for the full 70mins they will have an even better second half and armagh wont be able 2 content with them. of course armagh will still be hot favourites to win bt i dont think they will be able to finish the game off they will have a good 1st half but they wont turn up for the 2nd half.
Quotefermanagh wernt great in the first 50mins but we all believe it was nerves none if these boys have ever been in a ulster final but when they realised that they have the skills to win they went into action. fermanagh will come out on sunday and will play for the full 70mins they will have an even better second half and armagh wont be able 2 content with them. of course armagh will still be hot favourites to win bt i dont think they will be able to finish the game off they will have a good 1st half but they wont turn up for the 2nd half.
Who the feck are you...Nostradamus? ;)
Quote from: balladmaker on July 24, 2008, 12:31:26 AM
Quotefermanagh wernt great in the first 50mins but we all believe it was nerves none if these boys have ever been in a ulster final but when they realised that they have the skills to win they went into action. fermanagh will come out on sunday and will play for the full 70mins they will have an even better second half and armagh wont be able 2 content with them. of course armagh will still be hot favourites to win bt i dont think they will be able to finish the game off they will have a good 1st half but they wont turn up for the 2nd half.
Who the feck are you...Nostradamus? ;)
No, he's NostraMcmanus ;D ;D
QuoteWho the feck are you...Nostradamus? ;)
and what excaly would you mean by that?
Quote from: McManus. on July 24, 2008, 01:27:24 AM
QuoteWho the feck are you...Nostradamus? ;)
and what excaly would you mean by that?
I wouldn't wanna predict Balladmaker's response.
Go to bed McManus, your Summer Club starts early in the morning.
Good night and good luck.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AM
AOR, it has been good to see him back, he is a great reader of the game and is always in position but he hasn't the legs or speed. Too often he was left trailing a faster Fermanagh player who had 3 or 4 yards on him before he got going. He can play by sitting in from of Francie but his distribution of the ball can be quite poor, often losing possession. It's time to remove sentiment, AOR has done a great job in the transition without McGeeney but McKeever needs to be given his chance to take over at CHB with Donaghy moving into half back.
Surely abit harsh?
I thought he was definately exposed last Sunday! Was because his little brother wasn't there to bail him out??
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AM
He can play by sitting in from of Francie but his distribution of the ball can be quite poor,
One of the stupidest things I have ever heard on the GAABOARD.
Quote
He can play by sitting in from of Francie but his distribution of the ball can be quite poor,
Quote
Agreed, A O'R's districution in general is of a very high standard from centre half back, quite possibly an significant improvement to the days of Geezer. He may have had a bad day last week but that doesnt mean he's finished.
You were going rightly there TYP until the AOR thing. I don't think McGrane should shoulder the responsibilty for Sunday's collapse, he can't be competing for the aerial ball and the broken ball. I would presume that this would be central to this week's training sessions. We need to get more bodies in there to compete for the break ball.
The half backs have to push further up the field to compete for the break ball. We seem to be leaving the break ball to MOR and have been doing so all year.
IF we are going to start kicking to the wings from kickouts then Hearty is not the man for between the posts, every time he tries this he kicks it over the sideline.
The Hearty v McKinney situation is very interesting.
It is lenght v accuracy.
I have a feeling that we could see McKinney in nets on Sunday.
What's the Armagh publics opinion on McKinney? I remember he was due to start against us a couple of years back but then cudnt because of a family bereavement or something to that effect, but he must be a good men between the sticks.
How is he under the high ball? Is shot stopping his strength?
Armagh comfortably beat down and Cavan and everyone is brilliant - the players can do no wrong! 20 poor minutes against fermanagh (totally forgetting they were good enough to take an 8 point lead) and everyone is shite! insightful stuff.
Quite a bit of badly thought out and irrational analysis floating about re last week's game. For 50 minutes everything was moving ok, when Fermanagh turned the tide and consequently the game.
What happened with 20 minutes to go that wasn't happening before? Two of the half forward line were changed – probably the two most mobile and hard working two. Before this, particularly in the first half, Armagh chewed up and spat out these waves of Fermanagh attacks at ease. Suddenly, Fermanagh were creating overlaps and McCloskey and Tommy McElroy were getting through the gaps.
The half forward line were not tracking their runners effectively as had been done before. In addition, the removal of Martin O'Rourke massively impacted the break ball scenario. Not only the breaks the man wins but if you watch the game closely, when a Fermanagh man wins a break in a danger area, O'Rourke is on him like a clag and the effectiveness is minimised immediately.
The lazy reaction that because this happened in the last 20 minutes means that the older players haven't the legs is badly informed. McGrath, who had shaped the course of the Monaghan and Derry games produced very little. McGrane fetched more ball and drove forward more. In the final 20 minutes McGrath never caught a ball but kicked one point – off the back of McGrane having to leave him to tackle an attacking half back. Mostly these two broke even, with McGrane probably shading it. Inevitably the ball will break off the pair of them and its up to the rest to compete then.
In the first half, Aidan O'Rourke was the barrier that totally undermined Fermanagh's attacking intentions. When they ran at Armagh's centre, O'Rourke doubled up on the tackles at the right time and caused numerous turnovers. More importantly, Fermanagh's intended attacking ploy of hitting Murphy on the square was completely blotted out by O'Rourke and they were forced to carry the ball into the waiting tackling nets. The point about O'Rourke trailing Fermanagh forwards indicates poor understanding of what a sweeper deals with. Inevitably if a runner breaks through to run at the sweeper, he is doing so full speed at a static tackler. Those situations depend more on technique and strength than speed and O'Rourke's copes better with this than most.
On a general point, for whatever reason Armagh certainly missed both men's long deliveries into the forwards on Sunday. In particular, I feel that O'Rourke was too deep to contribute his usual relieving passes, which Armagh have depended quite a bit on this year.
Armagh's second half problems centred around two things in my opinion. Firstly and most worryingly the break ball situation. This has been the case against cavan and down also so there's a fundamental weakness in the team's make up here. If you are getting cleaned out on breaks, the opposition are in the front foot all day and you have to cope with a hell of a lot of pressure at the back. Secondly, the roles of the half forward line seems to be confusing. Where are they supposed to be playing? Too often in that last 20 minutes there was no half forward line – only 100 yards of space to Clarke and McDonnell. No prizes for guessing that the ball has to be run out of defence in that scenario.
Take your points – some of your other points are baffling.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMMcGrane and the defence had settled to hold on to the lead
– eh?
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMHearty was booming the ball out to around 70 yards which allowed the whole Armagh defence and two half forwards to blanket in front of their goals
– I never saw an armagh half forward in their own defence for kick outs at any stage of the game.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMrunning at the Armagh defence who fouled and gave away frees which thankfully Fermanagh were unable to convert
– surely you are watching Armagh long enough now to know that these fouls don't occur in difficult scoring positions by accident?
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMYes, Paul McGrane does not play a great role as the captain. He does lead by example, a real workhorse but he doesn't marshall his players, he doesn't direct the play and they cannot benefit from his experience. Armagh were leaderless in defence when they most needed someone to direct the players because there is little communication between the sideline and players throughout the match. This should have been the role for AOR but he couldn't position himself properly and fell back onto the square.
– how can you know anything about the communication between the players on the field or from the sideline?
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMFermanagh are very limited in attack but they do play to their strengths. Their main strength is the ability to run all day in the hope of wearing down the opposition
– Fermanagh's goal and most of the hysteria created in the last ten minutes with high ball launched onto the square.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMAOR.... He can play by sitting in from of Francie but his distribution of the ball can be quite poor, often losing possession.
– jaysus, that's the icing on the cake.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMIt's all about development for Armagh, we are still in the transition phase for this squad.
– noone else really believes that
Spot on.
jaysus that was some rant!
Wouldn't call it a rant. Good post.
Quote from: Uladh on July 24, 2008, 12:22:41 PM
McGrath, who had shaped the course of the Monaghan and Derry games produced very little. McGrane fetched more ball and drove forward more. In the final 20 minutes McGrath never caught a ball but kicked one point – off the back of McGrane having to leave him to tackle an attacking half back. Mostly these two broke even, with McGrane probably shading it. Inevitably the ball will break off the pair of them and its up to the rest to compete then.
Not a mission McGrane shaded this! I have the utmost respect for McGrane as he has been consistently the best midfielder in Ulster for the last, god knows how many years, but McGrath along with Clucker took the game by the scruff of the neck last Sunday!
In the final 20, there was 50 minutes before that.
Indeed there was, and I still believe we edged midfield encounters in this sector! At the end of the day, everyone see's the game differently. I left Clones with no doubt in my mind that Ciaran McElroy was the man of the match, but only to watch it back and to be reconsidering my choice. Anyone from McDonnell, McGrath, Clucker, Toner could have walked away with it!
Sure what do I know?? Sunday will answer all our questions and more!
Some well made points Uladh. In relation to McGrane, i think if people watched a video of the match again they would be impressed by the amount of ground he covered, both in getting forward and in tracking back. McGrane did his job and more for the 70 mins, it was up to others to help him out in there.
On a very simplistic and basic level, some of Armagh's best performances over the years have come on the back of the half forward line keeping their shape and providing good link up play for the front men (not surprising really!). It would also be important for the wing backs to offer more going forward, at the right times, to try to create more overlaps and options. In terms of personnel, i don't think too many changes are needed, maybe look at McKinney as an option in goals, to help vary the kickouts if nothing else. I'd also be more inclined to go for Tony Kernan as a sub later on, to help with the defending from the front and the odd free. I think he has more to offer than Oisin at the moment on both counts.
The management know what they have to fix for Sunday. Whether it can be done is another thing.
I agree with your point about AOR, well made, but PmcG shading midfield?? Didn't happen. McGrath kicked two points and it was his short attempt that provided Maguire's goal
Any more word on tickets lads? Whats demand like in the counties? Was there last week would love to go back again, might be able to get my hands on 2 pat mcgrane tonight finding out later, just wondering is it going to be close to a full house?
If McGrane had has shooting boots with him could of had 1-02. whichever way you assess that head to head there wasn't much in it and certainly didn't lose armagh the game (it felt like a loss!)
Quote from: D4S on July 24, 2008, 03:43:48 PM
Any more word on tickets lads? Whats demand like in the counties? Was there last week would love to go back again, might be able to get my hands on 2 pat mcgrane tonight finding out later, just wondering is it going to be close to a full house?
there is plenty of tickets spare this time (well there was in our club last night whereas last week there wasn't a one to be seen spare)
Quote from: D4S on July 24, 2008, 03:43:48 PM
Any more word on tickets lads? Whats demand like in the counties? Was there last week would love to go back again, might be able to get my hands on 2 pat mcgrane tonight finding out later, just wondering is it going to be close to a full house?
Had the chairperson on an Armagh club onto me this morning trying to shift tickets. Have a load of them left and looks like they will be returning them unless can get rid tonight.
Quote from: illdecide on July 24, 2008, 04:05:17 PM
there is plenty of tickets spare this time (well there was in our club last night whereas last week there wasn't a one to be seen spare)
But no seated tickets for us plebs eh, illdecide?
Quote from: D4S on July 24, 2008, 03:43:48 PM
Any more word on tickets lads? Whats demand like in the counties? Was there last week would love to go back again, might be able to get my hands on 2 pat mcgrane tonight finding out later, just wondering is it going to be close to a full house?
i had trouble enough getting tickets last week. typically, i'll not be at the game this week and have been offer tickets more than ten times this week already
Good to hear for those of us outside of armagh and fermanagh, but I hope there is about 30000 there for a good atmosphere like the 2nd half last week!
Quote from: Donagh on July 24, 2008, 04:07:49 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 24, 2008, 04:05:17 PM
there is plenty of tickets spare this time (well there was in our club last night whereas last week there wasn't a one to be seen spare)
But no seated tickets for us plebs eh, illdecide?
Correct Donagh. Us peasants to the hill as usual ;) :D
ARMAGH FOWL TACKLES
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=23765
pretty easy to spot the fowl tackle from behind... why didn't the ref? fair enough two men from the side or 1 in front plus one from the side but this type of tackling was going on by the Armagh players continually throughout the 70 minutes and should be stamped out of the game.
how is the player in possession supposed to play the ball when he is being mauled from all quarters? The GAA need to cut this out of the game!
Open hands, aimed at the ball, looks ok to me...
Quote from: Croà na hÉireann on July 24, 2008, 05:27:37 PM
Open hands, aimed at the ball, looks ok to me...
Croi - no issue with O'Rourke or Kernan, but Toner should not be involved in the play, his left leg is stopping Keenan move forward with the ball and Keenan knows he cannot turn in that direction to move out of the tackle and play the ball. This is another reason why the fans and pundits complain about the style of negative play. I realise Fermanagh also like to pack the defense but they do not have 3/4 men surrounding the player in possession on regular occurences on each attack... it should be clamped down on by the authorities and referees (tackling from behind is not allowed in the rule book) as this is not enjoyable to look at or play against.
Quote from: D4S on July 24, 2008, 03:43:48 PM
Any more word on tickets lads? Whats demand like in the counties? Was there last week would love to go back again, might be able to get my hands on 2 pat mcgrane tonight finding out later, just wondering is it going to be close to a full house?
Demand in Fermanagh is the same as last week if not greater, so I would suspect over 30k in Clones on Sunday again.
Really looking forward to the game, hopefully the atmosphere is every bit as good as last week, with a great Fermanagh win at the end of it all ;D
Sammy you have to be a WUM?
Now as i've said before i'm slightly bias but there is not a hope that Armagh broke even in midfield. I was at the match and have watched it twice since, and Fermangh had the majority of the possession right the way through the match. Even in the first half, you can talk all you like about Armagh tactics, but Fermanagh men played into their hands which made the Armagh defence look brilliant. Once they had a decent talking to at half tim, they turned it around.
The thing I will give to Armagh was that they were economical with what they had. McDonnell was excellent and Clarke was causing nervous moments everytime he got the ball, but bar that they were nothing exciting.
Armagh2002: No disrespect to fermanagh but i believe we are better in every position 1-15
I'm still trying to work out if you are serious with this? Alright you could have exageratted and said better in most positions, but 1-15 is the biggest load of sh&%e i have read on this board in my life
Well another Ulster final a waits this Sunday.
From a Fermanagh point of view I think there will be a few changes. First I think that Lyons will start, whether that be for McDermott or Kelly I am not so sure.
Think that Goan should be given another chance on McDonnell. He is not as good a man maker as McCluskey but if we are to win on Sunday we need him at CHB organising the defence and setting up the attack. McCabe is a better player to spring of the bench when Armagh are tiring. McBarron may get the nod this time. Again Owens does not look as if he is fit for 70 minutes but Doherty could do a job on the edge of the square either.
From watching the match it really did surprise me how much the high ball into the edge of the square panicked the Armagh full back line. Maybe not in the first half, but definitely in the second half. Francie did not look comfortable on Owens at all. That is something we must look to exploit.
If we are to run with the ball, we must attack Armagh down the wings. When you look at the first half again, Fermanagh constantly ran the ball down the middle and Armagh just waited until we spilled the ball and then hit us on the break. They funnel too many men back towards the goal for this to be effective. Our scores came form when we hit Armagh out wide and at pace.
As I have previously said, and others too, the main reason we came back into the game on Sunday was that Clucker attacked from CHB and we pressed Armagh in their half of the field. We must do this again on Sunday. That really does leave our full back line exposed but that is the risk we have to take.
So far Fermanagh have comfortably won the midfield third and breaking ball against Monaghan, Derry and Armagh. Armagh knew of our strength there before last Sunday but could do nothing about it. Will they have learned the lesson this Sunday?? I hope not.
I freely admit that Armagh dominated the first 50 minutes of the match but then again Fermanagh really only played for 20 minutes. Our free taking problem may not be solved for the next day but I cannot see it being that bad again. We were lucky to get the draw and certainly cannot give Armagh an 8 point lead on Sunday or we will be beat. We can win this game and we are the fitter team. So far O'Rourke has had the Midas touch when it comes to substitutions; let's hope it continues on Sunday.
Quote from: wanderer on July 24, 2008, 08:06:06 PM
Now as i've said before i'm slightly bias but there is not a hope that Armagh broke even in midfield. I was at the match and have watched it twice since, and Fermangh had the majority of the possession right the way through the match. Even in the first half, you can talk all you like about Armagh tactics, but Fermanagh men played into their hands which made the Armagh defence look brilliant. Once they had a decent talking to at half tim, they turned it around.
The thing I will give to Armagh was that they were economical with what they had. McDonnell was excellent and Clarke was causing nervous moments everytime he got the ball, but bar that they were nothing exciting.
Armagh2002: No disrespect to fermanagh but i believe we are better in every position 1-15
I'm still trying to work out if you are serious with this? Alright you could have exageratted and said better in most positions, but 1-15 is the biggest load of sh&%e i have read on this board in my life
Wanderer, Armagh2002 is the same as a few of the "younger" new Fermanagh posters, poor WUMs. He was dropping Kieran Toner off his team which is strange to say the least.
Typically, the Fermanagh posters are reading a lot into the last 20 mins while the Armagh posters are doing the same for the first 50 mins. Fermanagh posters are citing their players pushing up the field as the turning point whilst Armagh posters are stating their players got too deep.
Sunday will put all this to bed.
Armagh unchanged.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7524497.stm
QuoteArmagh manager Peter McDonnell has kept faith with the same starting line-up for Sunday's Ulster SFC final replay against Fermanagh at Clones.
The Orchard County led by eight points early in the second half of last week's decider but the Ernemen bounced back to secure a second chance.
McDonnell admitted after the game that his side should have won.
Fermanagh will have the services of Shane McCabe who started last week as a late replacement for Liam McBarron.
Glentoran have given permission for McCabe to play in the match.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armagh: P Hearty, A Mallon, F Bellew, F Moriarty, A Kernan, A O'Rourke, C McKeever, P McGrane, K Toner, C Vernon, B Mallon, M O'Rourke, S McDonnell, R Clarke, S Kernan.
Quote from: Uladh on July 24, 2008, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 24, 2008, 08:54:31 AMIt's all about development for Armagh, we are still in the transition phase for this squad.
– noone else really believes that
Sorry Uladh - but I do. I guess this all comes down to what one defines as 'transition' and what is natural evolvement
I realise that a football team is constantly changing from one year to the next, and for our great side over the period 1999 - 2005, that was approximately at the rate of one or two a year. Both last year, this year, and I would guess next year, that degree of change has increased and will increase. This is necessary as many of the greats on our team are reaching the stage where they wil be considering retirement. I would guess that over the next couple of years Paul McGrane, Aidan O'Rourke, Enda and Oisin will take their leave of us. These boys will have to be replaced and the introduction of Moriarty, Tony Kernan and Vernon to name three, will occur.
I just feel the degree of change is that much greater now that we would have to be considered a team in transition. That though is not to say we do not remain competitive on the National stage. I have been pleasantly surprised at how well we have been doing in this regard. I feel in a year or twos time, we will fall into another period of gradual / natural change that marked the 1999 - 2004 years, with a generally settled team (based on our recent good underage teams) and this will be hopefully a period in which we can move towards another All Ireland winning team.
Boys... clarify, whats this WUM business? if you think I am winding people up then I fear not I am only passing on my comments on what has and what will happen
Quote from: corn02 on July 24, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
Sammy you have to be a WUM?
Fermanagh had to wait 26 years for an Ulster Final, now we have 2 in a week. The first one was a warm up for Sunday, it took us a while to get going and to really get into the game but when we got going we outplayed and outscored Armagh and missed a bagful of chances.
This Sunday we won't make the same mistakes and will put Armagh firmly in the Qualifiers
If all mistakes are removed from sundays game then armagh will bate fermanagh out the gate. they won't be though.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 24, 2008, 05:25:12 PM
ARMAGH FOWL TACKLES
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=23765
pretty easy to spot the fowl tackle from behind... why didn't the ref? fair enough two men from the side or 1 in front plus one from the side but this type of tackling was going on by the Armagh players continually throughout the 70 minutes and should be stamped out of the game.
how is the player in possession supposed to play the ball when he is being mauled from all quarters? The GAA need to cut this out of the game!
Dry your eyes Sammy, what the Gaa need to Cut out is this diving, Fermanagh man dived in the dying seconds and was give a free against him for throwing the ball not for the dive, he should have been booked
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 25, 2008, 10:03:17 AM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 24, 2008, 05:25:12 PM
ARMAGH FOWL TACKLES
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=23765
pretty easy to spot the fowl tackle from behind... why didn't the ref? fair enough two men from the side or 1 in front plus one from the side but this type of tackling was going on by the Armagh players continually throughout the 70 minutes and should be stamped out of the game.
how is the player in possession supposed to play the ball when he is being mauled from all quarters? The GAA need to cut this out of the game!
Dry your eyes Sammy, what the Gaa need to Cut out is this diving, Fermanagh man dived in the dying seconds and was give a free against him for throwing the ball not for the dive, he should have been booked
You bring your hankies on Sunday Onion Bag cos you Armagh boys will be the ones crying into your beers! All the pundits said this was an Armagh team in transition, it was going to be one of the most wide open Anglo Celts for many years and they were right BUT they were all plumping for Monaghan/Derry to come to the fore not Fermanagh and if this was any other team in Ulster bar Fermanagh, Cavan and Antrim, this Armagh side would be going in as the underdogs cos they are simply not that good. Yes, they have the experience but those experienced legs will be getting tired after two intense games when we get into the last twenty this Sunday and if Armagh do not have a sizeable enough lead then I can only see Fermanagh's fitness, determination and hunger prevailing. Armagh will probably have a man sent off in frustration near the end...
Jasus Sammy you have it all worked out, Any chance you could give me the lotto numbers for sat night?
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 24, 2008, 05:25:12 PM
ARMAGH FOWL TACKLES
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=23765
pretty easy to spot the fowl tackle from behind... why didn't the ref? fair enough two men from the side or 1 in front plus one from the side but this type of tackling was going on by the Armagh players continually throughout the 70 minutes and should be stamped out of the game.
how is the player in possession supposed to play the ball when he is being mauled from all quarters? The GAA need to cut this out of the game!
And Fermanagh weren't guilty of this on Sunday last? If you are going to target this and point the finger then I suggest you include all guilty parties including your own team not just Armagh...and from a photo you saw on a website.
He could be right and merited in his argument, the fact that he used a still just destroyed his credibility.
Rufus I diasagree.
Evert team loses a couple of players year. No player can go on forwever. If you looked at the team that won Ulster in 1999 and the team that won in All-Ireland it was the same numbers/ leaders leaving. Burns/ Reid etc.
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 25, 2008, 10:35:45 AM
Jasus Sammy you have it all worked out, Any chance you could give me the lotto numbers for sat night?
No Onion Bag, I am a GAA expert, Malachy's right hand man, I don't do Lottery, thats for mugs!
But for your information, your chances of winning the jackpot is 1 in 13,983,816 or approximately 1 in 14 million. ;D
Travis I was at the game and it was prevalent from the Armagh players throughout, sickening to watch actually.
1 in 14 million thats a possibility
Let the Battle commence ;)
Rufus - transition is a premeditated line pushed by armagh players and management but none of them believe it for a second. if it were a transition period you'd remove anyone who isn't gonna be there in 3 years and start from scratch. McDonnell seems to love trotting that line out.
there is evolution in every team every year. If McDonnell didn't believe he could win an all ireland he wouldn't be playing Paul McGrane, Aidan O'Rourke, Enda, francie and Oisin at all.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 10:23:55 AM
You bring your hankies on Sunday Onion Bag cos you Armagh boys will be the ones crying into your beers! All the pundits said this was an Armagh team in transition, it was going to be one of the most wide open Anglo Celts for many years and they were right BUT they were all plumping for Monaghan/Derry to come to the fore not Fermanagh and if this was any other team in Ulster bar Fermanagh, Cavan and Antrim, this Armagh side would be going in as the underdogs cos they are simply not that good. Yes, they have the experience but those experienced legs will be getting tired after two intense games when we get into the last twenty this Sunday and if Armagh do not have a sizeable enough lead then I can only see Fermanagh's fitness, determination and hunger prevailing. Armagh will probably have a man sent off in frustration near the end...
The least endearing element of fermanagh people is their arrogance for absolutely no reason. they were always that way and is the reason why they don't enjoy the blanket support that any team in their current position should have from neutrals. when you add to that the nasty side of their team its understandable why so many neutrals are supporting armagh, however irrational that may be.
whats arrogant about Fermanagh people Uladh? dont you like being told that this Armagh team are not that good??? :-*
I am actually staggered with how confident all of the Fermanagh posters on this thread are for Sunday.
It really does appear that the average Erne follower thinks that Fermanagh will make less errors / iron out their mistakes from the first day, but that for some reason Armagh won't............
FERMANAGH ALL THE WAY :)
They can and they will do it!
Sam will be brought home!
Quote from: liv on July 25, 2008, 11:19:52 AM
FERMANAGH ALL THE WAY :)
They can and they will do it!
Sam will be brought home!
liv, don't get too carried away, Sam comes along in September, this is for the Anglo Celt Cup.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 25, 2008, 11:17:38 AM
I am actually staggered with how confident all of the Fermanagh posters on this thread are for Sunday.
It really does appear that the average Erne follower thinks that Fermanagh will make less errors / iron out their mistakes from the first day, but that for some reason Armagh won't............
Smokin Joe, what mistakes did Armagh make?? they made the most of the opportunities they had, Clarke and O'Donnell were clinical and ruthless when they had possession. They just got a little complacent and ran out of steam
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 10:58:39 AM
Rufus - transition is a premeditated line pushed by armagh players and management but none of them believe it for a second. if it were a transition period you'd remove anyone who isn't gonna be there in 3 years and start from scratch. McDonnell seems to love trotting that line out.
there is evolution in every team every year. If McDonnell didn't believe he could win an all ireland he wouldn't be playing Paul McGrane, Aidan O'Rourke, Enda, francie and Oisin at all.
Definetly a team in transition IMO, just not as marked as others may do it for the simple reason that McDonnell didn't want to come in and start from scratch and spend 2 or 3 years building a team while probably doing so from Divsion 3. Evolution not revolution was a phrase trotted out a while back, and I agree with the philosophy, but it's still a transitory phase.
I thought McDonnell in his cryptic way was trying to say that they were not a team in transition - that it was everyone else saying it.
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 10:58:39 AM
The least endearing element of fermanagh people is their arrogance for absolutely no reason.
Uladh I would love to know where you are getting this from. Fermanagh and arrogance is one thing that does not mix. we do not have the record at Ulster or national level to have any. Yes we have had success over the past 5 years but we have won nothing and that's what it is all about in the end. The backdoor has developed us as a football county because it has taken us out of the caldron of Ulster football. It is less than 10 years ago that Armagh ended there 20 year wait for an Ulster title and looked what has happened since. A lot of fermanagh people are just caught up in the moment.
If it's from some of the posters on the board, then you are probably being irked by a few Tyrone posters dressed up as Fermanagh men.
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 10:58:39 AM
they were always that way and is the reason why they don't enjoy the blanket support that any team in their current position should have from neutrals. when you add to that the nasty side of their team its understandable why so many neutrals are supporting Armagh, however irrational that may be.
I would say 99% of neutrals are supporting Fermanagh. Armagh have been the best team in Ulster for the last 10 years. There record shows that. As for this nasty side you say we have, we have just copied our more successful counterparts. What's good for the goose and all that? If we were to go back and play the football we played 5 or 6 years ago, we would have been beat in the first round.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 25, 2008, 11:17:38 AM
I am actually staggered with how confident all of the Fermanagh posters on this thread are for Sunday.
It really does appear that the average Erne follower thinks that Fermanagh will make less errors / iron out their mistakes from the first day, but that for some reason Armagh won't............
Joe i would not call it confidence, more belief in this team. It is coming from the fact that we have beat Monaghan and Derry all ready this year. I was of the opinion that coming into the final last Sunday we were underestimated. Most pundits and supporters were playing lip service to the fact that Fermanagh had beaten Monaghan and Derry but still expected Armagh to take it. Now we have came back from the brink against Armagh. If Monaghan had done what Fermanagh have so far this year, people would be tipping them for the All Ireland.
I think Fermanagh are more confident now as they are beginning to believe in themselves a lot more now.
They're hunger, work rate and downright stubbornness to not give up are great fighting factors and to me is the main reason why they're doing so well.
I thinlk though they need to get a wee bit more streetwise and to use that favourite word of Armagh people "DIVE" MORE
Armagh as we all know play on the edge and often step over that line
Refs are under huge pressure to try to let the game flow now and so the forward will rarely get a free if he rides the tackle and doesn't go to ground.
So why do Armagh fans get so riled about "diving"?
Cos it takes away their edge of being FAIRLY overphysical.
If you stand up to all their physical HITS then eventualy you succumbe to it and near the end of the game Armagh can edge ahead.
I reckon ye should give them a taste of their own medicine and target a few of their hotheads such as Martin O'Rourke or Ciaran McKeever so that they get mad, lose the head and get themselves sent off.
Yes of course its very cynical tactic but lads its dog eat dog when ye play Armagh cos if you say you're not lowering yerself to their tactics then you'll be left behind.
I'd say McNulty and his sports psychology methods have a huge input to the way Armagh constantly test every avenue to get what they want.
Finally...
What is the actual rule about stopping a player who has just past the ball from continuing his run?
Is this not a foul just cos the ball is no longer in your possession?
I know all teams are now doing it
You can only go on your own experiences. through my university time and even my times in england, fermanagh people had an extraordinary confidence. the number of lads from other ulster counties who wished for an armagh win last week for that very reason really took me aback. i had expected that everyone would like to see a fermanagh win. this board is never a good indicator, and i realise its al new to most of them, but some of the fermanagh stuff posted is cringeworthy.
Quote from: FermGael on July 25, 2008, 11:42:06 AM
Joe i would not call it confidence, more belief in this team. It is coming from the fact that we have beat Monaghan and Derry all ready this year. I was of the opinion that coming into the final last Sunday we were underestimated. Most pundits and supporters were playing lip service to the fact that Fermanagh had beaten Monaghan and Derry but still expected Armagh to take it. Now we have came back from the brink against Armagh. If Monaghan had done what Fermanagh have so far this year, people would be tipping them for the All Ireland.
Fermgael, from what I can see it appears that Fermanagh fans can see nothing other than a Fermanagh win on Sunday - that is very dangerous.
WELL SAID FERMGAEL, BELIEF IS WHAT IS DRIVING THIS AND NO SET OF SUPPORTERS APART FROM WICKLOW COULD BE MORE PASSIONATE ABOUT WINNING A PROVINCIAL TITLE.
stop shouting
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 11:54:26 AM
stop shouting
ok I'll leave that til Sunday Uladh... I didn't think this was a techie-geek zone
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 11:51:39 AM
You can only go on your own experiences. through my university time and even my times in england, fermanagh people had an extraordinary confidence. the number of lads from other ulster counties who wished for an armagh win last week for that very reason really took me aback. i had expected that everyone would like to see a fermanagh win. this board is never a good indicator, and i realise its al new to most of them, but some of the fermanagh stuff posted is cringeworthy.
All Armagh people are plump and smell of cabbage.
I base this on the fact that when I was at college I knew a fat fat man from armagh with BO.
Cringeworthy? Take a step back there big lad
o aye - nearly forgot - it bugs me when they call everyone "big lad"
Sorry little boy, come have a cuddle from odo :-*
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 11:51:39 AM
but some of the fermanagh stuff posted is cringeworthy.
Agreed
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 25, 2008, 11:52:00 AM
Fermgael, from what I can see it appears that Fermanagh fans can see nothing other than a Fermanagh win on Sunday - that is very dangerous.
Yes it is very dangerous. If Armagh get good ball into Stevie and Ronan for most of the match, we will be beat. Sunday highlighted the fact that they lived on scraps and still scored 1-7 between then I think. Watching the two of them on Sunday, you can see the understanding they have. The amount of unselfish running Clarke did to distract Clucker in the sweeper position and leave Stevie one on one, was unreal.
IMHO Malachy should make a few changes to Fermanagh's starting line up;
1. take out P Sherry and replace with a hard hitting defender, shadowing Stevie Mc won't suffice as he'll punish Fermanagh again if given any opportunity.
2. McBarron back in at full forward to give Francie a bit more of a hard time and keep McCabe for the impact sub approach which has worked so well this season already
3. take out J Sherry and replace with Brewster as he was ineffective and has not been at the races in this season's campaign, has potential but looks off the pace.
4. persuade the Gooch to play corner forward to look after the free-kicks....
*******BREAKING NEWS*******FERMANAGH LINE UP NOW IN:
Fermanagh:
R Gallagher,
S Goan, S McDermott, P Sherry,
D Kelly, R MCCluskey, T McElroy,
M McGrath, M Murphy,
C McElroy, J Sherry, R Keenan,
E Maguire, L McBarron, M Little.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:06:44 PM
IMHO Malachy should make a few changes to Fermanagh's starting line up;
1. take out P Sherry and replace with a hard hitting defender, shadowing Stevie Mc won't suffice as he'll punish Fermanagh again if given any opportunity.
Sherry has been one of our most consistent performances this year. Catch a grip.
where did you get that line up from??
Fermanagh restricted clarke and McDonnell's usual supply pretty well last week. there were very few, if any, early balls for the two lads to win inside shooting distance. everything armagh did in the forward line was laboured and fermanagh made them work extremely hard for their scores for the most part. carrying ball up to the two lads is not armagh's game because they're surrounded by then and if that continues this week, fermanagh will win.
I believe it is 50 50 for Sunday. Both sets of supporters will be hoping that the respective errors from last week will be ironed out and if so their team should win ok.
Armagh supporters will believe that they took the foot of the gas and complacency led to Fermanaghs dominance in the last 20 minutes, they will hope that they can maintain their form from the first 45 - 50 minutes for the full duration. Whereas Fermanagh supporters will believe the first 50 minutes is not a true reflection of where this team is at, that the last 20 was the real Fermanagh and come Sunday with the experience of last week they will be able to deliver a more intense performance over the course of the game and come out on top.
It is hard to say which is correct, Sunday will tell but being a fermanagh man I hope and believe that it is fermanagh who will come out on top
Quote from: FermGael on July 25, 2008, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:06:44 PM
IMHO Malachy should make a few changes to Fermanagh's starting line up;
1. take out P Sherry and replace with a hard hitting defender, shadowing Stevie Mc won't suffice as he'll punish Fermanagh again if given any opportunity.
Sherry has been one of our most consistent performances this year. Catch a grip.
where did you get that line up from??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7524497.stm
I am from south Fermanagh and a big admirer of Sherry but he is not physical enough for McDonnell...
The piece says there is specualtion over Shane Lyons and Shaun Doherty. This could and possibly should be in place of the two Roslea men.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 25, 2008, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 10:58:39 AM
Rufus - transition is a premeditated line pushed by armagh players and management but none of them believe it for a second. if it were a transition period you'd remove anyone who isn't gonna be there in 3 years and start from scratch. McDonnell seems to love trotting that line out.
there is evolution in every team every year. If McDonnell didn't believe he could win an all ireland he wouldn't be playing Paul McGrane, Aidan O'Rourke, Enda, francie and Oisin at all.
Definetly a team in transition IMO, just not as marked as others may do it for the simple reason that McDonnell didn't want to come in and start from scratch and spend 2 or 3 years building a team while probably doing so from Divsion 3. Evolution not revolution was a phrase trotted out a while back, and I agree with the philosophy, but it's still a transitory phase.
I thought McDonnell in his cryptic way was trying to say that they were not a team in transition - that it was everyone else saying it.
I wouldn't have it as a transistion period, just natural order. 32 xcounties a year loose some of their older, experienced players. When Geezer came into the year as a scrawny corner-back it weasn't transistion, it was just a space being replaced.
Quote from: OdoSkimodo on July 25, 2008, 11:58:16 AM
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 11:51:39 AM
You can only go on your own experiences. through my university time and even my times in england, fermanagh people had an extraordinary confidence. the number of lads from other ulster counties who wished for an armagh win last week for that very reason really took me aback. i had expected that everyone would like to see a fermanagh win. this board is never a good indicator, and i realise its al new to most of them, but some of the fermanagh stuff posted is cringeworthy.
All Armagh people are plump and smell of cabbage.
I base this on the fact that when I was at college I knew a fat fat man from armagh with BO.
Cringeworthy? Take a step back there big lad
I know loads of women from Fermanagh that are fat and stick of BO, There was a house full of them living in the Holylands, they were disgusting
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:20:08 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 25, 2008, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:06:44 PM
IMHO Malachy should make a few changes to Fermanagh's starting line up;
1. take out P Sherry and replace with a hard hitting defender, shadowing Stevie Mc won't suffice as he'll punish Fermanagh again if given any opportunity.
Sherry has been one of our most consistent performances this year. Catch a grip.
where did you get that line up from??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7524497.stm
I am from south Fermanagh and a big admirer of Sherry but he is not physical enough for McDonnell...
The piece says there is specualtion over Shane Lyons and Shaun Doherty. This could and possibly should be in place of the two Roslea men.
Why would P Sherry lose his place?? He was not marking McDonnell the last day until the last 20 when he did all right on him then.
He marked Kernan for most of the match and he was kept very quiet.
Ferm you are arguing with a WUM.
I know corn but i am bored
Quote from: FermGael on July 25, 2008, 12:35:10 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:20:08 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 25, 2008, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:06:44 PM
IMHO Malachy should make a few changes to Fermanagh's starting line up;
1. take out P Sherry and replace with a hard hitting defender, shadowing Stevie Mc won't suffice as he'll punish Fermanagh again if given any opportunity.
Sherry has been one of our most consistent performances this year. Catch a grip.
where did you get that line up from??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7524497.stm
I am from south Fermanagh and a big admirer of Sherry but he is not physical enough for McDonnell...
The piece says there is specualtion over Shane Lyons and Shaun Doherty. This could and possibly should be in place of the two Roslea men.
Why would P Sherry lose his place?? He was not marking McDonnell the last day until the last 20 when he did all right on him then.
He marked Kernan for most of the match and he was kept very quiet.
Listen Ferm he didnt do alright on him, the ball didnt come down that end of the field, mc donnell was on fire all day,
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2008, 12:35:50 PM
Ferm you are arguing with a WUM.
at least I am not a BUM. :o
FermGael, I was in the Pat McGrane on Sunday towards the Fermamagh goals and watched Sherry stand off McDonnell in the 2nd half when he was picking off points for fun, if he had have had more of the ball he would have done more damage its that simple. Who marks McDonnell then to keep him quieter?? I think it needs to be a tough tackler who stands on his toes when the ball is nowehere near him and really gets on his case.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:42:14 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2008, 12:35:50 PM
Ferm you are arguing with a WUM.
at least I am not a BUM. :o
FermGael, I was in the Pat McGrane on Sunday towards the Fermamagh goals and watched Sherry stand off McDonnell in the 2nd half when he was picking off points for fun, if he had have had more of the ball he would have done more damage its that simple. Who marks McDonnell then to keep him quieter?? I think it needs to be a tough tackler who stands on his toes when the ball is nowehere near him and really gets on his case.
Well then who would you have replace him??
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 25, 2008, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 25, 2008, 12:35:10 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:20:08 PM
Quote from: FermGael on July 25, 2008, 12:10:49 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 12:06:44 PM
IMHO Malachy should make a few changes to Fermanagh's starting line up;
1. take out P Sherry and replace with a hard hitting defender, shadowing Stevie Mc won't suffice as he'll punish Fermanagh again if given any opportunity.
Sherry has been one of our most consistent performances this year. Catch a grip.
where did you get that line up from??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7524497.stm
I am from south Fermanagh and a big admirer of Sherry but he is not physical enough for McDonnell...
The piece says there is specualtion over Shane Lyons and Shaun Doherty. This could and possibly should be in place of the two Roslea men.
Why would P Sherry lose his place?? He was not marking McDonnell the last day until the last 20 when he did all right on him then.
He marked Kernan for most of the match and he was kept very quiet.
Listen Ferm he didnt do alright on him, the ball didnt come down that end of the field, mc donnell was on fire all day,
If a defender keeps his man scoreless, then its job done as far as i am concerned
FermGael, I was in the Pat McGrane on Sunday towards the Fermamagh goals and watched Sherry stand off McDonnell in the 2nd half when he was picking off points for fun, if he had have had more of the ball he would have done more damage its that simple. Who marks McDonnell then to keep him quieter?? I think it needs to be a tough tackler who stands on his toes when the ball is nowehere near him and really gets on his case.
[/quote]
Quit with this drivel please. Shane Goan marked McDonnell for the most party last sunday, did you turn up with 20mins to go? Sherry deserves his place for his performance on Kernan
boll0x scud... McDonnell scored 2 points in the 46th and 55th mins when Sherry was on him and he didn't even get a chance to block him on either... leave him on S Kernan then but he can't handle McDonnell, thats all I am saying.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2008/0725/page1217465.html?gaa
For a so called "expert" his reasons for coming to his verdict is severly questionable. Surely he is not giving Fermanagh enough credit for their previous victories but in saying that he may well be correct in predicting the side who eventually truimphs. Realistically if any team are going to run out of legs going by last week's game its likely to be the Orchard men.
I would say that I'm a betting man but i wouldn't touch this game to be honest even though I'm an Armagh man. If i was too make a prediction i would say Armagh but only just. To be fair to Fermanagh theres no doubt they deserve another crack at it without a doubt and could have won it the last day, but the original thought i had in the car home from Clones was that essentially Armagh went too far ahead (8 points... i wasn't complaining at the time ;D) and at the end of the day that last 20 Min's from fermanagh was always going to come with Armagh so far in front. Being 8 points down you have no option but to throw caution to the wind-which is exactly what they did and reaped the rewards. But my own opinion is that if Armagh were maybe 2 or 3 points in front instead of 8, they would have closed the game out because fermangh would have still been cautious of going for broke.
I have heard alot of people say if fermanagh can play the 65-70 Min's like the 2nd half last week, they will win. Personally i dont buy into this argument, fermanagh steamrolled armagh during that 20-25 minute period and Armagh had no answer. This was due to a few reasons i think, armagh who were more or less cruising for the 50 odd minutes upto this point believing they had done enough and they took their foot off the pedal as much as it was fermanagh playing high octane fast football, going for broke with nothing in the world to lose.
For sunday i think Armagh will have learned alot-they usually do based on replays over the past decade. Although the team seemed disappointed, the message i think peter mc donnell will be drilling into them is that you didn't perform at all in the 2nd half and fermanagh threw everything at you yet your still in the final.
Armagh by 2...Just
McCluckskey has proved in the past that he de man to do a job on Stevie From Killeavy. Bit of a risk bringing him back to do it however..
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 25, 2008, 12:56:01 PM
McCluckskey has proved in the past that he de man to do a job on Stevie From Killeavy. Bit of a risk bringing him back to do it however..
He did well on him in 04 but i think stevie still scored 4 points, albeit mostly at the start of the game when armagh were dominant. I'd be for goan getting another chance sunday. Need clucker out the field
I'm with you on that scud, McCluskey was very impressive in the 2nd half last week, acting as playmker for the forwards to feed off.
Is nobody elsae surprised that McBarron is starting ahead of McCabe? I thought he did enough last week to get another start, he saw plenty of ball in the first half! Perhaps O'Rourke is thinking they also need to plan for the following game where McCabe might not be there, but you have to put out your best 15 in an ulster final. O'Rourke hasn't got too much wrong yet this year so who am I to question him, hope McBarron proves me wrong and scores 3-10! Got my ticket for sunday so Ill be back there again hopefully an exciting match like last weeks second half!
Fermanagh tried Mark Murphy in full forward, then James Sherry in the 1st half with little or no joy whatsoever. O'Rourke seems to favour this style as he had McBarron playing there against Monaghan and Derry, he then threw in Barry Owens in that position in the 2nd half so he obviously wants the option of nippy corner forwards feeding off the breaking ball in the full forward line which could prove devastating if goals came off the back of this tactic (although Mark Little tends to roam, Eamon Maguire is dangerous on the inside)
McCluskey is playing very well at centre half back, would be difficult to take him out of there. It could unsettle the whole team. The corner backs Goan and Sherry have been playing well this season and deserve their places.
I believe goan does merit a second chance on McDonnell but he'd need to seriously improve hopefully he will. As for McBarron I think the jurys still out, if he is just to be used as a big full forward who can break ball then it could work, but as a target man who could potentially catch a high ball and kick a good score I don't think he's that good....but again hope he proves me wrong on sunday
that was a real show-stopper D4S! we need a bit more banter "big lad" ;)
Think Stevie got 7 points in 04, only armagh man to get more than one! Cant mind who was marking him though. cant see McCluskey moving from centre Half after playing so well in the drawn game. Very tough one to call, fermanagh are no longer the easy draw they once where. Cant see there being a point or 2 in it either way.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 02:13:20 PM
that was a real show-stopper D4S! we need a bit more banter "big lad" ;)
U being sarcastic about other posters comments??? If so that's a bit rich considering your first few posts :D
Quote from: D4S on July 25, 2008, 02:19:32 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 02:13:20 PM
that was a real show-stopper D4S! we need a bit more banter "big lad" ;)
U being sarcastic about other posters comments??? If so that's a bit rich considering your first few posts :D
quote me big lad, quote me!! by the way, d'ya reckon Down will go any futher than the quarters? I think they have the beating of Laois but that'll be as far as they go
We haven't made it to the final 12 yet never mind makin it further than the quarters. Think we should have enough to get by laois. Next Saturday will be a much tougher test altogether...Kerry, Mayo or the losers of Armagh+Fermanagh. Whoever gets Wexford would be certs I can't see them doing anything after last weeks performance. Will be tough for Armagh or Fermanagh to go out and play enxt saturday after a defeat this sunday so either of them could also be vulnerable. If we can make the quarters this year that will be good progress for us, considering we've never got there since their inception. To contest against the best is where we want to be, if we can beat laois tomorrow evening which I think we will, then who knows how much progress we can make with a favourable draw where we can gain more and more confidence!
Anyway this is the Ulster Final thread so Ill give my prediction for Sunday Fermanagh 1-11 Armagh 1-10!
Barry Owens last goal scorer @ 11/1 with ladbrokes folks...its like giving money away!! :D
we could handle that after last weekend a 1 point scrape through would be as good as 10! thats what this fermanagh team have always done to us though, even when they are on top of games they lack that clinical ruthlessness in front of the posts to put games out of sight. One of the only times I can remember them doing that was V Cork in 2004 when they racked up 0-18 to 0-12
Quote from: dodgyrightfoot on July 25, 2008, 03:54:43 PM
Barry Owens last goal scorer @ 11/1 with ladbrokes folks...its like giving money away!! :D
I know you should hold onto it.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 04:00:47 PM
thats what this fermanagh team have always done to us though, even when they are on top of games they lack that clinical ruthlessness in front of the posts to put games out of sight.
You could be talking about Armagh as well :-\
Lot of Ernemen coming out of the woodwork here. Lot of ridiculous comments here from men in green and from the opposite side. Where's this Fermanagh nastiness coming from? That's something, to our own detriment, we've never really had. Hopefully it's starting to creep in. Know Peter McGinnity said after the Derry win that one of the things that impressed him the most was the serious levels of cynicism from Fermanagh.
No matter what anyone says no-one in the county expects any sort of an easy game on Sunday. The past has taught us though that you need to have a belief in your own ability to make the best of it and claim what's yours. To often in the past our confidence has been so brittle we have broken down when it really mattered - Mayo in the All-Ireland semi and Down in the Ulster semi of 2003 really spring to mind as games there to be taken.
Hopefully the team can have that quiet assurance (unlike some of the fans) needed to play our best football. Fermanagh need to stop believing this underdog stuff and start believing man for man they can go out and match and beat the best.
O'Rourke will be putting his confidence in them all week, Keenan will be on frees again and I expect Goan and Kelly to have much better games this week.
If they all believe and play to their best, get the luck on the day (and a good ref), then Fermanagh can scrape home by a point or two. Please God.
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 25, 2008, 04:16:39 PM
Where's this Fermanagh nastiness coming from? That's something, to our own detriment, we've never really had. Hopefully it's starting to creep in. Know Peter McGinnity said after the Derry win that one of the things that impressed him the most was the serious levels of cynicism from Fermanagh.
ExiledGael; I'm with you, where has all the nicey nicey stuff got us?? Its about time that Fermanagh GAA grew some balls and gained that steely determination required to get us over the finish line and I think the stuff being echoed on here is genuinely alot of people finally waking up, taking their chin out of the bowl of cornflakes and smelling the coffee! If McGinnity is relieved to see a callous and cynical side to Fermanagh football then this can only be good in way of results.
Some things we can expect to see:
1) Mor staying hiher up the pitch and staying on for 70 minutes.
2) Sean Doherty to kick about a dozen wides from under the Gerry Arthurs.
3) Clarkie to get another goal.
4)Fermanagh supporrt vastly outnumbering Armagh.
5) a two point victory for Armagh.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 25, 2008, 04:16:39 PM
Where's this Fermanagh nastiness coming from? That's something, to our own detriment, we've never really had. Hopefully it's starting to creep in. Know Peter McGinnity said after the Derry win that one of the things that impressed him the most was the serious levels of cynicism from Fermanagh.
ExiledGael; Where has all the nicey nicey stuff got us?? Its about time that Fermanagh GAA grew some balls and gained that steely determination required to get us over the finish line and I think the stuff being echoed on here is genuinely alot of people finally waking up, taking their chin out of the bowl of cornflakes and smelling the coffee! If McGinnity is relieved to see a callous and cynical side to Fermanagh football then this can only be good in way of results.
Yes being hard on a message board should guarantee success.
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2008, 04:33:23 PM
Some things we can expect to see:
1) Mor staying hiher up the pitch and staying on for 70 minutes.
2) Sean Doherty to kick about a dozen wides from under the Gerry Arthurs.
3) Clarkie to get another goal.
4)Fermanagh supporrt vastly outnumbering Armagh.
5) a two point victory for Armagh.
and being mystical and deluded is a much better approach ::) :D C'mon you Armagh daysal smugglin heathen! that's what we want plenty of banter of you!!!
Give the lads their time corn
FFS, it was only a few weeks ago the Down ones were on mouthing off
After Sunday the Fermanagh ones will have retreated into the same wee hole
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2008, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 25, 2008, 04:16:39 PM
Where's this Fermanagh nastiness coming from? That's something, to our own detriment, we've never really had. Hopefully it's starting to creep in. Know Peter McGinnity said after the Derry win that one of the things that impressed him the most was the serious levels of cynicism from Fermanagh.
ExiledGael; Where has all the nicey nicey stuff got us?? Its about time that Fermanagh GAA grew some balls and gained that steely determination required to get us over the finish line and I think the stuff being echoed on here is genuinely alot of people finally waking up, taking their chin out of the bowl of cornflakes and smelling the coffee! If McGinnity is relieved to see a callous and cynical side to Fermanagh football then this can only be good in way of results.
Yes being hard on a message board should guarantee success.
Well I doubt he's going to get the chance to be hard on the pitch so I don't see the point of your put down.
Can see about three of those happening Corn. Why do you expect Armagh fans to be outnumbered again?
I think Fermanagh are in for a hammering.
Quote from: full back on July 25, 2008, 04:43:20 PM
Give the lads their time corn
FFS, it was only a few weeks ago the Down ones were on mouthing off
After Sunday the Fermanagh ones will have retreated into the same wee hole
no need for the condescending tone fb, we aren't that
plucky wee county anymore... last Sunday showed you that, this Sunday will prove it
Put down was because he thinks Fermanagh are too nice and should be nasty on the board? Why?
Alot of clubs did not sell out down here while I hear it is the reverse in Fermanagh.
Bold prediction. Armagh to lose by 4!
The spine of the team is too old and basically you cannot have a spine that immobile and expect to win things. McGrane, O'Rourke and Bellew are over the hill. Add to that the fact there's no football in O'Rourke, McKeever, Vernon and Toner you have a real problem. Even the Kernans couldn't cut it in the last match.
Armagh's players are all strength and no skill compared to Fermanagh who have players like McCluskey, McGrath, McElroy, Maguire and Little who are full of it. Fermanagh are also twice as fit as Armagh which for me would be the reason they win by 4 points.
Armagh need to start breeding footballers and lads who can actually put boot to ball whether it be hand toeing or kick passing... the current crop are not up to it and only for Clarke and McDonnell they would be nowhere near in this game... if one of them have an off day Armagh better watch out!
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2008, 04:53:55 PM
Put down was because he thinks Fermanagh are too nice and should be nasty on the board? Why?
Alot of clubs did not sell out down here while I hear it is the reverse in Fermanagh.
Hope he thinks Fermanagh should be nasty on the field, thought that was his point. Should have been.
EVeryone down here seems to be going again, and a few extra also. Why the apathy in the Orchard? TV/cash/too many days out
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2008, 04:53:55 PM
Put down was because he thinks Fermanagh are too nice and should be nasty on the board? Why?
Alot of clubs did not sell out down here while I hear it is the reverse in Fermanagh.
not on the board, this is just a bit of harmless banter amongst fans within the GAA fraternity! We need to do it on the football field
intriguing insight into the Ulster showpiece there Zapapista, many thanks for your input.
Must be fear EG :D. I think the insinuation was being hard on the field, not much point getting all macho on here!
Oh and Screen Exile, you risk annoying some Armagh folk with comments like that, tut tut. You are not even a WUM either, why would anyone outside of Fermanagh possibly think we can win ::)?
Quote from: Slapdash on July 25, 2008, 05:03:06 PM
Must be fear EG :D. I think the insinuation was being hard on the field, not much point getting all macho on here!
Oh and Screen Exile, you risk annoying some Armagh folk with comments like that, tut tut. You are not even a WUM either, why would anyone outside of Fermanagh possibly think we can win ::)?
I figure since Derry were out and you're not allowed to slag individuals on our thread that I would take it upon myself to lambaste the Armagh playing fraternity. I'm not winding up either I truly believe this to be the case. I kind of have a pick on the Armagh players since they won the All Ireland and half of them failed to crack a smile... crowd of robots just completed an objective and moved on to the next one... they're still waiting to achieve that one!!!
Seriously though I think their number is up and while people have been threatening it for a while I think no All Ireland this year will signal the end for a few boys namely Francie, AOR, McGrane, McConville and possibly Paddy McKeever.
Quote from: full back on July 25, 2008, 04:43:20 PM
Give the lads their time corn
FFS, it was only a few weeks ago the Down ones were on mouthing off
After Sunday the Fermanagh ones will have retreated into the same wee hole
We're still hanging about in the wings, we could still meet again before this years out, and if it happens to be saturday week I think Armagh would be very vulnerable...You outplayed us in clones and still only won by4, our midfield would clean yous again and our forwards would be booming with confidence after 2decent wins in qualifiers. Confidence is one thing but smugness by some armagh fans is unbelievable.
I've enjoyed the views and opinions today, but I am moving on for a while now, planning to be back here some time on Tuesday after the Fermanagh celebrations have calmed down a bit but I won't be gloating, well not much anyway
Good Luck, may the best team win on Sunday ;)
D4S, we have the small matter of Laois to contend with first.
Even if we beat Laois, I think we are destined to get erry.
The game has been added to the Setanta schedule for anyone in the US. (delayed coverage)
Sun 27 Jul 12:45 pm GAA - Ulster Football Final REPLAY: Armagh vs. Fermanagh (Setanta 2) (Same Day Coverage)
Quote from: Down Gael on July 25, 2008, 05:20:00 PM
D4S, we have the small matter of Laois to contend with first.
Even if we beat Laois, I think we are destined to get erry.
If you read my earlier posts on the previous page you will see where I had already mentioned
if we get by Laois, laois will be a stern test!
Some rubbish being talked on here, unfortunately a fair bit of it by Fermanagh ones.
Sammy - I honestly expected to open that photo you posted and see a pigeon attacking a fermanagh player - its spelt 'foul'... and it wasn't by the way. Keenan shouldnt have ran into the first tackle, and then the other two wouldnt have been able to surround him. Its good defensive play, they deserve the free out that prob followed for overcarrying.
The match on Sun - I expect the same team named as last week, but that team to start also. If anyone doesnt start, I reckon it'll be James sherry (could Doc get his reward??)
- he was good in MF last week, but the game passes him by elsewhere, and our strongest MF combo is McGrath and Murphy.
No way will McCluskey be on McDonnell. Everyones been shouting for him to be marking first Freeman, then P Bradley, now McDonnell. He wont be, because both Sherry and Goan are better man markers than him. Fact. Add to the equation that he is more useful playing chb, and its a no-brainer.
McBarron will do the usual in FF, disrupt the backline as the ball comes in - anyting can happen then. Good honest work rate in there will cause problems, as we seen whenever awful ball was going into Owens but he was still fighting for it.
McCabe doesnt deserve a starting berth, he was poor last week, but he knows that. It seemed clear that firstly he was trying too hard to live up to the very favourable press hes being getting, by being on the ball all the time, and secondly that he was nervous.
The Fermanagh game is to handpass to about half way, then kick the ball in. They showed a marked reluctance to kick the ball in the first half - lack of confidence. McCabe for example turned down an easy kick pass early on to turn back, where he promptly got into trouble. Kelly usually has no problem going forward, but when a ball was played in front of him early on, he hesitated, again, lack of confidence.
McGrane has been getting a fair bit of stick from Armagh supporters. I though he had a good solid game. McGrath was average, although he kicked two great scores. If he dominated McGrane like some say, why didnt he make a catch? McGrane was breaking the ball and working hard, he lacked the support from esp Aaron Kernan, and Charlie Vernon, who was awful. If there is to be a change to the armagh lineup I expect it to be for him.
If I was McDonnell the biggest change I would make is to push someone up on Clucker - I thought he would do this the first day. Tie him up, and we'll find out ferms plan B.
I expect Fermangh to win however. My honest opinion of the last day is that we played poorly and drew. Apart from Ciaran McElroy, everyone can improve. I dont think there is as much improvement in Armagh. Fermanagh have been freed from the shackles of the occasion - I could even see a repeat of cork in 04, where they blitzed them in the last ten min.
Btw, heard Tom Elliot (UUP?) was on Dunseith saying he hopes Fermanagh lose so those tricolours come down asap. Anyone hear this?? it seems Orangemen support their own no matter what the occasion...
Pains me to say it but I hope Armagh win against the anti - football players from Fermanagh. Teams have been playing the "so called" blanket defence for years now but the sucessful ones have had truly great forwards to 'reward' all the ugly play. Tyrone had McGuigan, Canavan and O'Neill et al. while Armagh had and still have McDonnell, Clarke and McConville. Fermanagh I'm afraid dont have that. Your man keenan (a decent player that he is) missed a free from about 15 metres last sunday - he should have been suspended for such a crime - some have been suspened for less this year! If Fermanagh can find 1 or 2 out and out scoring forwards then they will be a hell of a team, while if Armagh keep their heads on sunday they will win.
My views on Sunday's game are straight forward:
Armagh to win. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, the best team usually prevail. Armagh don't give second chances in replays and I expect this trend to continue Sunday. Armagh have a potent forward line, Fermanagh don't.
I feel Armagh will improve at midfield this Sunday which will ensure enough ball goes into the forwards to close out the game. Fermanagh could not expect to get the same amount of ball in the middle as they got last Sunday. With less ball going into a pretty ordinary forward line, Fermanagh could struggle to rack up enough scores.
Armagh by 4, easing off. That's my opinion anyway.
QuoteBold prediction. Armagh to lose by 4!
The spine of the team is too old and basically you cannot have a spine that immobile and expect to win things. McGrane, O'Rourke and Bellew are over the hill. Add to that the fact there's no football in O'Rourke, McKeever, Vernon and Toner you have a real problem. Even the Kernans couldn't cut it in the last match.
Armagh's players are all strength and no skill compared to Fermanagh who have players like McCluskey, McGrath, McElroy, Maguire and Little who are full of it. Fermanagh are also twice as fit as Armagh which for me would be the reason they win by 4 points.
Armagh need to start breeding footballers and lads who can actually put boot to ball whether it be hand toeing or kick passing... the current crop are not up to it and only for Clarke and McDonnell they would be nowhere near in this game... if one of them have an off day Armagh better watch out!
Only one response to that - you're talking shite.
Quote from: Armamike on July 25, 2008, 09:11:05 PM
QuoteBold prediction. Armagh to lose by 4!
The spine of the team is too old and basically you cannot have a spine that immobile and expect to win things. McGrane, O'Rourke and Bellew are over the hill. Add to that the fact there's no football in O'Rourke, McKeever, Vernon and Toner you have a real problem. Even the Kernans couldn't cut it in the last match.
Armagh's players are all strength and no skill compared to Fermanagh who have players like McCluskey, McGrath, McElroy, Maguire and Little who are full of it. Fermanagh are also twice as fit as Armagh which for me would be the reason they win by 4 points.
Armagh need to start breeding footballers and lads who can actually put boot to ball whether it be hand toeing or kick passing... the current crop are not up to it and only for Clarke and McDonnell they would be nowhere near in this game... if one of them have an off day Armagh better watch out!
Only one response to that - you're talking shite.
There's an excuse for some of the newbies on the board but if screenexile insists that he's not on the wind up then jealousy has got a firm grip on him (he was at it about Clarke a couple of weeks ago). Those Armagh players "with no football in them" that he refers to have more medals than the average Derry player can shake a stick at!
screenexile has very little else to for the rest of the Summer, so I wouldnt worry too much about what he is saying, just trying to be a WUM.
Expect a victory on Sunday by a few points, if we have any expectations at all this Summer we need to be beating Fermanagh (no disrespect)
Quote from: balladmaker on July 25, 2008, 08:26:38 PM
My views on Sunday's game are straight forward:
Armagh to win. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, the best team usually prevail. Armagh don't give second chances in replays and I expect this trend to continue Sunday. Armagh have a potent forward line, Fermanagh don't.
I feel Armagh will improve at midfield this Sunday which will ensure enough ball goes into the forwards to close out the game. Fermanagh could not expect to get the same amount of ball in the middle as they got last Sunday. With less ball going into a pretty ordinary forward line, Fermanagh could struggle to rack up enough scores.
Armagh by 4, easing off. That's my opinion anyway.
Armagh have a potent forward duo, trio at best. Armagh haven't improved at midfield for a number of games in a row now. Fermanagh will not miss as many frees as they did the last day. Fermanagh will not kick 10 balls into the keeper's hands again. Deegan will give a whole lot more frees than White did. Those are facts which give us a chance at least. Armagh are clearly the favourites but 11/5 is a hell of a price on Fermanagh.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 25, 2008, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Uladh on July 25, 2008, 10:58:39 AM
Rufus - transition is a premeditated line pushed by armagh players and management but none of them believe it for a second. if it were a transition period you'd remove anyone who isn't gonna be there in 3 years and start from scratch. McDonnell seems to love trotting that line out.
there is evolution in every team every year. If McDonnell didn't believe he could win an all ireland he wouldn't be playing Paul McGrane, Aidan O'Rourke, Enda, francie and Oisin at all.
Definetly a team in transition IMO, just not as marked as others may do it for the simple reason that McDonnell didn't want to come in and start from scratch and spend 2 or 3 years building a team while probably doing so from Divsion 3. Evolution not revolution was a phrase trotted out a while back, and I agree with the philosophy, but it's still a transitory phase.
I thought McDonnell in his cryptic way was trying to say that they were not a team in transition - that it was everyone else saying it.
The terminology used really depends on whether the team is successful or not. When you lose, the team's in transition. Win and it's called 'evolution'. The fact is all good teams bring in a couple of new faces each year to keep things fresh. Kerry have been evolving as a team since 1997. The Armagh side than won the AI in 2002 had 5 new personnel starting who didn't feature in 1999. 2004 saw the introduction of 3 or 4 u21 players to the line up. And it goes on. I actually think the age profile of the current Armagh side is a lot healthier looking than was the case 3-4 years back. Then we had a skewed age profile with a bunch of players in their late 20s or over and a bunch in their very early 20s, critically lacking in the mid 20s category. We have that spread now, which is important for contuinity and avoids the problem of the core of your team retiring en masse. Whether Armagh have the basis for going the whole way this year is questionable, but it's probably as good a basis as it's going to get.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 05:00:32 PM
intriguing insight into the Ulster showpiece there Zapapista, many thanks for your input.
I think my one sentence contribution was enough to give my point of view especially after 52 pages of
crap analyze. The last thing this thread needs is more
insight. I will be back to eat my hat or say i told ye so on Monday.
Quote from: haranguerer on July 25, 2008, 05:59:59 PM
Btw, heard Tom Elliot (UUP?) was on Dunseith saying he hopes Fermanagh lose so those tricolours come down asap. Anyone hear this?? it seems Orangemen support their own no matter what the occasion...
That's a bit strange considering the amount of support Fermanagh had from our Protestant friends in the county. There were loads of them at the match and it was great to see.
A friend of mine was on the hill, beside an ole fella from Roslea.
Ole Fella says Fermanagh are going to there first Ulster.
Friend replies what makes you say that.
Ole fella says Just seen one miracle today. An ole protestant farmer from Roslea, Mr Orange order who marches through the town every year, just stood in his Fermanagh shirt and respected our national anthem.
Times they are a changing
Sure Fermanagh is Protestant and water.
Must be hard all the same to be playing with webbed feet!
Demand for tickets seems to be very high - full house is anticipated.
Is the replay on TV at all ?
Apparently Tony Kernan replaces his brother Stephen in the starting lineup. Any confimation?
Is the match on setanta?
trying to watch in the states any help or online info?
watched last week on justin tv but doesnt seem to be there this week.
HELP
can you get it off the bbc website?
does not appear to be on setanta
Anyone know where I can listen online to live commentary of the Ulster Final?
I can't find anything on highland, northern sound or 5FM I'm getting worried now.
Also BBC Radio Ulster have restricted online commentary to users "within the UK only"
RTE radio 1 are not providing live commentary only randomly providing match updates
Thanks
On line radio, try www.highlandradio.com , not sure but normally has it. Check first stickie post on this site for other stations
I'm listening to it on Fivefm
http://www.fivefm.co.uk/
Tony Kernan in starting.
Keenan from play fermanagh one up
brian carty is on rte cannot listen to him. brutal
just got the fivefm, he sounds like he would make taking a sh*t exciting. great alternative, willl he last the game at this pace.??
paddy power had 4/5 marty mcgrath to get more points than mcgrane. money in the bank!
Thank god for hurling...
Quote from: joemamas on July 27, 2008, 03:19:54 PM
just got the fivefm, he sounds like he would make taking a sh*t exciting. great alternative, willl he last the game at this pace.??
Fcuk i'd rather listen to an angle grinder, who is he?
This is death!!
This is pretty woeful fare.
Worst display of shooting i have ever seen........
it is bad, he is very hesitant to give the score, what is the ffin score
horray
3 2 to the Orangies
0-03 to 0-02 to armagh
Some terrible shooting on display.
3 each sorry
least the second half can only be better!
4-3 to the bog men
Dont often agree with Sidebottom, but it is a "festival of wides"
4-3 to Fermanagh
I give up on five fm - it must be about 3 minutes behind - I got a text that armagh scored second point from a free before the free was even given! :-\
kernan free, 4each
(aaron)
Half time, terrible half!
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:36:32 PM
I give up on five fm - it must be about 3 minutes behind - I got a text that armagh scored second point from a free before the free was even given! :-\
What's the alternative Pints?
well the hurlings good
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 27, 2008, 03:38:13 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:36:32 PM
I give up on five fm - it must be about 3 minutes behind - I got a text that armagh scored second point from a free before the free was even given! :-\
What's the alternative Pints?
Going to the match, thought you were an armagh fan pints?
this is a poor enough game!
it's hard to get tickets ya know
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 27, 2008, 03:38:13 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:36:32 PM
I give up on five fm - it must be about 3 minutes behind - I got a text that armagh scored second point from a free before the free was even given! :-\
What's the alternative Pints?
Reading my text messages and this thread and feel homesick and sorry for myself.
I would stick with five fm but because I'm on dial up it keeps stopping to "buffer" for about 30 seconds and Im missing everything anyway.
Don't live in Ireland Nail Loney/gabriel
http://www.justin.tv/mwb67
live tv
Jaysus Cheers Dec.
I need broadband
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 27, 2008, 03:38:13 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:36:32 PM
I give up on five fm - it must be about 3 minutes behind - I got a text that armagh scored second point from a free before the free was even given! :-\
What's the alternative Pints?
Reading my text messages and this thread and feel homesick and sorry for myself.
I would stick with five fm but because I'm on dial up it keeps stopping to "buffer" for about 30 seconds and Im missing everything anyway.
Don't live in Ireland Nail Loney/gabriel
Oh right didn't know that, thought you were holed up in silverbridge somewhere in a dark room
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:45:36 PM
I need broadband
No excuse this day and age Pint's, especially with all that money you're making over there ;)
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 27, 2008, 03:38:50 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 27, 2008, 03:38:13 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:36:32 PM
I give up on five fm - it must be about 3 minutes behind - I got a text that armagh scored second point from a free before the free was even given! :-\
What's the alternative Pints?
Going to the match, thought you were an armagh fan pints?
Im wathing stateside live on Justin TV then goto huddletv picture is OK sound is fine
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 27, 2008, 03:46:47 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 03:45:36 PM
I need broadband
No excuse this day and age Pint's, especially with all that money you're making over there ;)
Haven't settled in a permament house yet and most of the providers require 12 month contracts so I didn't want to get it and be paying cancellation fees in a few months That, and I'm poor.
Ach quit your moaning ;)
thanks again
they keep talking about the heat, whats the temp there?
Quote from: dec on July 27, 2008, 03:42:50 PM
http://www.justin.tv/mwb67
live tv
Fair play. I wasn't aware of this resource!
Quote from: J70 on July 27, 2008, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: dec on July 27, 2008, 03:42:50 PM
http://www.justin.tv/mwb67
live tv
Fair play. I wasn't aware of this resource!
J70 it beats the $20 at the pub.
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2008, 03:58:57 PM
they keep talking about the heat, whats the temp there?
it's probably around 22 degrees or so :D :D :D
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 27, 2008, 04:04:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2008, 03:58:57 PM
they keep talking about the heat, whats the temp there?
it's probably around 22 degrees or so :D :D :D
Thats a cool nite
Is he for real talking shite about horses!!
Owens brought off injured, pity. Only on the field for about five minutes!
0-07 0-05 to armagh at the minute, 20mins plus stoppages left
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2008, 04:05:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 27, 2008, 04:04:15 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on July 27, 2008, 03:58:57 PM
they keep talking about the heat, whats the temp there?
it's probably around 22 degrees or so :D :D :D
Thats a cool nite
We had a league semi-final last night at 7pm or so - and it was 28 degrees
Barry Owens has had enough bad luck to do him for a while. Hope his injury isn't as bad as it looks
yer man doing commentary is a shocker
More texts!! :D
Come on to f**k fermanagh give us a game!
hold on, i am going to interupt myself....
3 in it, is that the end of the Fermanagh challange?
Great point there. 12mins left, 3 in it now
Make it four after this free!
Fermanagh are kicking themselves out of it, poor game.
looks like an armagh thrashing of down or tyrone will need to wait.
nice point from mccabe
I see M O'Rourke dictating the refs calls
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 04:23:39 PM
looks like an armagh thrashing of down or tyrone will need to wait.
when was the last time armagh thrashed anyone? even today they seem to stutter their way through matches, would hardly convince you against a kerry or a dublin?? I choose these two because armagh seem to think they are up there with them!
Whats with reading out of text messages ?.Fermanagh finished .They will be an easy opponent for Tyrone next week
Another kernan free, four in it now with 2mins and injury time
Game over
dirty Orange barstewarts
Quote from: hardstation on July 27, 2008, 04:14:57 PM
This is balax.
Sidebottom is a pain in the hole. Stop reading out texts!
Shout out to Fiona, Sharon and Ann sitting on their arse eating and listening to the match.
Stevie not gonna be on any ferm defenders xmas card lists anyway
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 27, 2008, 04:28:11 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 04:23:39 PM
looks like an armagh thrashing of down or tyrone will need to wait.
when was the last time armagh thrashed anyone? even today they seem to stutter their way through matches, would hardly convince you against a kerry or a dublin?? I choose these two because armagh seem to think they are up there with them!
Kerry or Dublin would be a tough test for them however they'd blow away Down (again) or Tryone which I can't wait for - it'll have to wait now but another ulster title is some consolation.
Very poor quality game. At one stage in the 2nd half the Fermanagh forwards were throwing the ball around like a hot potato because none of them had the balls to actually shoot. Possession means nothing unless you can stick it over the bar. Don't think either team will go too far.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 04:23:39 PM
looks like an armagh thrashing of down or tyrone will need to wait.
Don't think either are looking over their shoulder Pints based on that shite ;D
"Justin" has just switched over to the Clare Cork game so we don't see the presentation.
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 27, 2008, 04:38:22 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 04:23:39 PM
looks like an armagh thrashing of down or tyrone will need to wait.
Don't think either are looking over their shoulder Pints based on that shite ;D
A team that couldn't beat down should be looking over their shoulder at EVERYONE!
How long of a break do Armagh have now ?. a lot silly stuff going on Stevie McDonnell normally not the sort of player to carryon like that.
Quote from: johnpower on July 27, 2008, 04:43:09 PM
How long of a break do Armagh have now ?. a lot silly stuff going on Stevie McDonnell normally not the sort of player to carryon like that.
He must have been getting an earful from the Fermanagh backs.
QuoteA team that couldn't beat down should be looking over their shoulder at EVERYONE!
Now Now Pints, Its not like Amaghs record against either has exactly sparkled, especially on the big stage ;D
Quote from: Tyrones own on July 27, 2008, 04:50:28 PM
QuoteA team that couldn't beat down should be looking over their shoulder at EVERYONE!
Now Now Pints, Its not like Amaghs record against either has exactly sparkled, especially on the big stage ;D
I can't remember the last time Down beat Armagh?
Tyrone got lucky/cheated against armagh a few times now but I'd be confident of Armagh giving them a good hiding.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 27, 2008, 04:28:11 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 27, 2008, 04:23:39 PM
looks like an armagh thrashing of down or tyrone will need to wait.
when was the last time armagh thrashed anyone? even today they seem to stutter their way through matches, would hardly convince you against a kerry or a dublin?? I choose these two because armagh seem to think they are up there with them!
Kerry or Dublin would be a tough test for them however they'd blow away Down (again) or Tryone which I can't wait for - it'll have to wait now but another ulster title is some consolation.
Hardly blew down away, two bad teams that day, was f**k all in it
Down wouldn't have beat armagh if they were playing till now!
Cheated/Lucky, whatever you have to tell yourself.... :'(
7 provincials in 9 years is a great achievement but just confirms how one sided the Ulster champioship has become. Well done Armagh but until you win another All Ireland all the huff and puff put into winning the Anglo Celt cup over the years will count for nothing.
I am reminded of Cavan and all their Senior Ulster titles: 39 in total -
1891, 1903, '04, '05, '15, '18, '19, '20, '22, '23, '24, '25, '26, '28, '31, '32,
'33, '34, '35, '36, '37, '39, '40, '41, '42, '43, '44, '45, '47, '48, '49, '52, '54, '55, '62, '64, '67, '69, '97
But only 5 All Irelands in that period of dominance.
Will history be as cruel on Armagh.
Terrible game and very disappointing. Waste of money as a neutral - some of the worst shooting i've ever seen, from both teams, but mainly Fermanagh. If they had a Paul Finlay or a Tommy Freeman they would have been at least 6 up by half time, even just with the frees. No one willing to shoot from any distance, insisting on running the ball in and ultimately losing it. Would a Fermanagh v Monaghan match next week have the same result as May's game?
Quote from: Kerry Mike on July 27, 2008, 05:31:27 PM
7 provincials in 9 years is a great achievement but just confirms how one sided the Ulster champioship has become. Well done Armagh but until you win another All Ireland all the huff and puff put into winning the Anglo Celt cup over the years will count for nothing.
I am reminded of Cavan and all their Senior Ulster titles: 39 in total -
1891, 1903, '04, '05, '15, '18, '19, '20, '22, '23, '24, '25, '26, '28, '31, '32,
'33, '34, '35, '36, '37, '39, '40, '41, '42, '43, '44, '45, '47, '48, '49, '52, '54, '55, '62, '64, '67, '69, '97
But only 5 All Irelands in that period of dominance.
Will history be as cruel on Armagh.
Cruel? we would kill to have 5 All Irelands, Kerry will hamme us this year like they do every other year with the obvious exception of 02. 8)
Brilliant result. Fair enough we'd all love a 2nd All Ireland but to win 7 Ulster titles in a decade is a tremendous achievement particularly given how strong the opposition has been at times and how nobody had even put Ulsters back to back since the 70s before this Armagh side arrived on the scene.
Thought we just about deserved it over the 2 games although Fermanagh will rue all those missed frees in the first half. Just not good enough at this level as they were all well within scorable range. Someone said after the replay that if Armagh improved at midfield by about 5 or 10% they'd win and that's basically what happened. In the first half a lot of Hearty's kickouts were very aimless and went straight to Fermanagh men but we won a lot more ball in the second half. It was a very poor standard int he first half - I think it was half an hour before either side got their third point.
Good to see us winning with Stevie McDonnell having a quieter match although he still finished up with 1-2. He'd been taking a right bit of verbal abuse in the first game I hear but to be fair to Goan, he marked him very well today. Clarke didn't get into it that much but still scored a couple of great points. The disallowed goal was definitely a square ball from Clarke. Stephen Kernan was excellent in the build up to the goal and I thought Brian Mallon had a very good game. Some of the tackling from Armagh was superb. Very demoralising for a team than to have possession robbed from them with the ball in their grasp as Armagh did on a number of occasions today.
Midfield was hugely improved and that was probably the difference from the drawn match. To much further though we need midfield functioning at least as well and both Clarke and McDonnell in good form. If that happens we'll be a match for most sides.
Have to feel sorry for Fermanagh, the final score wasn't a fair reflection on their efforts although the fact that they made 5 changes in the forwards (albeit 1 was for an injury) tells its own story. Be a lot of disappointed people tonight as I got the impression that most of their supporters fully expected a win. very hard to see them lifting themselves again for next weekend.
Ach, it looks the the Fermanagh ones who were predicting Armagh's demise have all lost their tongue. 8)
Gutted. Just back in there now.
Dominated the first half. Could not put the ball over the bar. Missed three free's from 20 yards. Just not good enough
Owens was a huge loss in the second half and I hope his injury is not to serious.
Once Armagh got on top, they closed the game out. They had the game won long before the goal.
Goan had a great game today. Himself, McCluskey and Murphy were immense.
It's time to scrap the Ulster championship. It's been holding us back for years. I really think that we are never going to win it
As for the qualifiers, well at least we did not get an Ulster team. Will be very hard for the Fermanagh boys to lift themselves for next weekend. And from what I have seen and heard about this Kildare team, they seem to be a mini Armagh. Just what we need!!!!
Quoteand how nobody had even put Ulsters back to back since the 70s before this Armagh side arrived on the scene.
Too young to remember Tyrone in 1995 & 1996 then?
kerry and dublin are for another day and maybe they will be too good for us but it's great to be ulster champions again. pity to see our neighbours can't acknowledge credit where it's due.
woeful first half and an adequate second, that's about all. McGrane anwswered the crutucs in style wth a fantastic performance of ball winning and tackling. someone mentioned armagh's tackling... on a day when none of the forwards fired really it was the work rate and particular the turn overs armagh forced which won the game. the tackling of McGrane, Toner, AOR and McKeever was immense.
All ireland quarters is a whole new competition but we're going in with a bit of confidence and noone expected us to be this far.
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 05:18:40 PM
I've enjoyed the views and opinions today, but I am moving on for a while now, planning to be back here some time on Tuesday after the Fermanagh celebrations have calmed down a bit but I won't be gloating, well not much anyway
Good Luck, may the best team win on Sunday ;)
You should have saved that Holiday Sammy,
When will Armagh learn? Winning Ulster will be their downfall again. I pity the fools.
Quote from: ONeill on July 27, 2008, 08:46:57 PM
When will Armagh learn? Winning Ulster will be their downfall again. I pity the fools.
Explain?
QuoteToo young to remember Tyrone in 1995 & 1996 then?
Well I was 11 but yes I had overlooked that. :-[ Was the 70s before that I think.
Armagh also joined Monaghan today as the 2nd much successful team in Ulster championship history with 14 titles a piece.
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 27, 2008, 08:47:30 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 27, 2008, 08:46:57 PM
When will Armagh learn? Winning Ulster will be their downfall again. I pity the fools.
Explain?
FFS don't ask, she is on the wind again.
Armagh bust a gut trying to win Ulster - a meaningless competition - and have nowt left in the tank when they meet sides coming from the real All-Ireland competition - the qualifiers.
Interesting, the only time this tactic seemed to work for Tyrone was in 2005 and anyone who seen the ulster finals of 2005 know Tyrone set out to lose the game ::)
Must try harder.
Well done to Armagh who know how to win games - hard luck to Fermanagh.
Of course Tyrone didn't set out to lose. They just lost and had the benefit of a useful backdoor game against Monaghan before meeting another stale provincial winner in Dublin.
When history judges teams and players, they don't look at Ulster titles. Spillane, Ring, Canavan, Joyce, Carey and Kerry, Down, Dublin, Galway etc etc - no one really remembers or cares how many provincial titles they won, they look at All-Irelands.
Tyrone's minors lifted their 7th Ulster title in 11 years this year. In that time they won 3 All-Irelands. Tyrone's seniors have won 3 Ulsters and 2 All-Irelands in the last 8 years. That's a decent return. Armagh's 1 from 7 is abysmal and rather embarrassing.
Well done on winning Ulster, tough to win, but it spells disaster for Armagh.
Congratulations Armagh.....7 Ulsters since 1999 is some achievement, in a Championship which is traditionally hard to win!!!
Role on the Q/Finals, Ulster is in the bag with minimum effort. I still get the feeling that this Armagh team has not got out of second gear this year, they have that look about them. Whether they can is another thing, but if/when they do, some team will be in for a roasting. Nicely posied for a tilt at Sam!
Ard Mhacha Abú!
Nice touch for Francie getting the ovation at the end.
Result as expected, but may have been different if Fermanagh had been able to shoot in the first half.
Some of the misses were f**king criminal & you would expect an average club player to put them over.
Armagh were below par in the first half, with some kickouts either missing their target or the men were going to the wrong places. The defence simply werent tight enough & were allowing Fermanagh to win the ball far too easily.
In the 2nd half it was a different story altogether. Controlled the game & Fermanagh still hadnt learned about carrying the ball into trouble. Thought Toner was immense beside Mc Grane & some of his tackling & tracking back was first class.
AK & McKeever done well.
Fermanagh tried to expose the full back line on a few occasions with the high ball in, although we kept a clean sheet other teams may target us in the future.
At the end of the day all that matters is the result.
Probably the easiest Ulster we will ever win, no disrespect to Down or Cavan. Bar that blip last week when we should have closed the game out it was an easy Ulster & bigger challenges lie ahead
cant understand how the other keenan made tha start of this match
tv said he was very confident person but i dont think hes a good one
should have put brew into ff from start and let him hit frees
fermanagh were so poor i dont even feel sorry for them
they got a pretty good draw in the qualifiers and its up to them to pick it up
Worst Ulster Final I have ever seen.
Puke football for sure.
Both teams.
Ugh! Terrible!
This is a poor last-kick-of-a-dying-mule Armagh team. Have to admire their spirit and guile but the quality isn't there and they are not in the running or Sam.
Galway to win, Dublin will give it a go and maybe Kerry will avenge Cork - wont be a classic series but we in Ulster can pack up our tent now and try to find a way out of the ugg-fest football, dressed up as so-called "scientific" approach to the game, that has blighted gaelic football in the province for the past 10 years or so.
Thank God for Cork-Clare on the telly today as channel-hopping made the afternon bearable.
Quote from: ONeill on July 27, 2008, 09:22:33 PM
When history judges teams and players, they don't look at Ulster titles. Spillane, Ring, Canavan, Joyce, Carey and Kerry, Down, Dublin, Galway etc etc - no one really remembers or cares how many provincial titles they won, they look at All-Irelands.
Depends on what floats your boat I suppose -- personally, there's not a chance I'd trade our second SAM for the 6 Ulsters that Armagh have in the last decade (or even for the three more than us that they have), but then, I'm not from Armagh :P
Anyone know when the quarter finals will be played?
Thought I heard they were fixed for 9/10 August??
Q-Finals are def. 9/10 th Aug
Quote from: Leo on July 27, 2008, 09:45:47 PM
Worst Ulster Final I have ever seen.
Puke football for sure.
Both teams.
Ugh! Terrible!
This is a poor last-kick-of-a-dying-mule Armagh team. Have to admire their spirit and guile but the quality isn't there and they are not in the running or Sam.
Galway to win, Dublin will give it a go and maybe Kerry will avenge Cork - wont be a classic series but we in Ulster can pack up our tent now and try to find a way out of the ugg-fest football, dressed up as so-called "scientific" approach to the game, that has blighted gaelic football in the province for the past 10 years or so.
Thank God for Cork-Clare on the telly today as channel-hopping made the afternon bearable.
Hahaha you are funny
Quote from: interested on July 27, 2008, 09:57:00 PM
Q-Finals are def. 9/10 th Aug
Yes 9/10th
Our championship is pencilled in for the week afterwards. With a bit of luck its put back ;)
Quote from: Leo on July 27, 2008, 09:45:47 PM
Worst Ulster Final I have ever seen.
Puke football for sure.
Both teams.
Ugh! Terrible!
This is a poor last-kick-of-a-dying-mule Armagh team. Have to admire their spirit and guile but the quality isn't there and they are not in the running or Sam.
Galway to win, Dublin will give it a go and maybe Kerry will avenge Cork - wont be a classic series but we in Ulster can pack up our tent now and try to find a way out of the ugg-fest football, dressed up as so-called "scientific" approach to the game, that has blighted gaelic football in the province for the past 10 years or so.
Thank God for Cork-Clare on the telly today as channel-hopping made the afternon bearable.
Leo, we all know O'Neill is permanenetly on the wind up and as such there to be ignored, but I think you're serious in that bitter tirade. I've news for you, even when Armagh lose McGrane and Bellew they will still be bating Down out the gate and winning Ulsters. There's a good deal of young talent coming through to continue the ugg-fest. Seeing a reaction like that makes the victory today even sweeter. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Leo thats twice I have agreed with you today. I turned the TV off at 4 points apiece and the wide count mounting. Puke football at its worst, I`d say Spillane had a fit watching that game. I was channel hopping too and ended up watching the rugby league on BBC2, to be honest I hadnt realised it wasnt the Ulster final.
It doesnt matter how many Ulsters Armagh win, they usually sh*t themselves when they get to Dublin. At least Big Joe was a likebale sort, you couldnt begrudge him an AI, that McDonnell is as hateful as the players.
Quote from: Down Gael on July 27, 2008, 10:39:14 PM
Leo thats twice I have agreed with you today. I turned the TV off at 4 points apiece and the wide count mounting. Puke football at its worst, I`d say Spillane had a fit watching that game. I was channel hopping too and ended up watching the rugby league on BBC2, to be honest I hadnt realised it wasnt the Ulster final.
It doesnt matter how many Ulsters Armagh win, they usually sh*t themselves when they get to Dublin. At least Big Joe was a likebale sort, you couldnt begrudge him an AI, that O`Rourke is as hateful as the players.
Which O'Rourke would that be then?
Freudian slip
QuoteIt doesnt matter how many Ulsters Armagh win, they usually sh*t themselves when they get to Dublin. At least Big Joe was a likebale sort, you couldnt begrudge him an AI, that McDonnell is as hateful as the players.
8 wins in Croke Park this decade - better going than a lot of counties.
Your opinion on Peter McDonnell is based on a lengthy knowledge of his character no doubt. ::)
Quote from: Down Gael on July 27, 2008, 10:39:14 PM
Leo thats twice I have agreed with you today. I turned the TV off at 4 points apiece and the wide count mounting. Puke football at its worst, I`d say Spillane had a fit watching that game. I was channel hopping too and ended up watching the rugby league on BBC2, to be honest I hadnt realised it wasnt the Ulster final.
It doesnt matter how many Ulsters Armagh win, they usually sh*t themselves when they get to Dublin. At least Big Joe was a likebale sort, you couldnt begrudge him an AI, that McDonnell is as hateful as the players.
Lads, stop please, ye are showing yourselves up!
Last time Down won a game in Croke Park they were standing in the Canal End, we have won umpteen matches in Croker since!!!
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 27, 2008, 11:19:40 PM
QuoteIt doesnt matter how many Ulsters Armagh win, they usually sh*t themselves when they get to Dublin. At least Big Joe was a likebale sort, you couldnt begrudge him an AI, that McDonnell is as hateful as the players.
8 wins in Croke Park this decade - better going than a lot of counties.
Your opinion on Peter McDonnell is based on a lengthy knowledge of his character no doubt. ::)
Well considering he mixes up his McDonnells and his O'Rourkes I don't think it's much to worry about. ::)
Quote from: Down Gael on July 27, 2008, 10:39:14 PM
Leo thats twice I have agreed with you today. I turned the TV off at 4 points apiece and the wide count mounting. Puke football at its worst, I`d say Spillane had a fit watching that game. I was channel hopping too and ended up watching the rugby league on BBC2, to be honest I hadnt realised it wasnt the Ulster final.
It doesnt matter how many Ulsters Armagh win, they usually sh*t themselves when they get to Dublin. At least Big Joe was a likebale sort, you couldnt begrudge him an AI, that McDonnell is as hateful as the players.
Man but you are sour and begrudging!
Some heat in Clones today. Armagh deserved the win but they are a real unlikeable team due to their bullying tactics. The 2 O'Rourkes are as cynical as i have ever seen. Stevie Mac hit some class scores but had no need to go into Gallaghers face after the goal, it reminded me of Donaghy to Hearty a few years ago. He should've shown class and not reacted to any slaggin he was gettin. I look forward to seeing those O'Rourkes and a few other "im hard but fair" players in that team gettin wiped out later on in the summer
Fermanagh's shooting was painful to watch--Little and Keenan were arguin over who was gonna hit the 1st free, they hadnt even sorted out who would hit the frees before the game, Ryan then hit it wide.
The only consolation is that Kildare are a great draw for Fermanagh. Kildare have been beaten by Wicklow, scraped by Cavan with a goal with the last kick and just about beat a shite Limerick team who missed an open goal.
An absolutely brutal game of football which highlighted the massive problems in Gaelic today with a near total inacapability to kick scores and a massive reliance on defence....While hoping Fermanagh would win after watching it I was glad they didn't because picking a team to hopefully score 9/10 points at most and defending is not how the game should be played....Its all fine and dandy picking guys who can run for 70 mins but why is there seemingly a rule that this is more important than kicking scores....
Anyway awaiting all the vitriol towards McDonnell that was thrown at the Dublin players last year..
"that O'Rourke is as hateful as the players."
I know you meant McDonnell , but what id the basis for such a rash character assassination. Seems very irational to me.
Quote from: SCENTOFSAM on July 27, 2008, 11:55:53 PM
"that McDonnell is as hateful as the players."
I know you meant McDonnell , but what id the basis for such a rash character assassination. Seems very irational to me.
I think irrational is his middle name.
Boy I'm enjoying reading this nearly as much as winning today!!! ;D
Quote from: orangeman on July 27, 2008, 09:29:04 PM
Nice touch for Francie getting the ovation at the end.
Was this his parting shot.
Very suspect along with Hearty!
QuoteWas this his parting shot.
Very suspect along with Hearty!
Explain please?
QuoteBold prediction. Armagh to lose by 4!
.....a real mystic Meg aren't you
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 27, 2008, 11:54:50 PM
An absolutely brutal game of football which highlighted the massive problems in Gaelic today with a near total inacapability to kick scores and a massive reliance on defence....While hoping Fermanagh would win after watching it I was glad they didn't because picking a team to hopefully score 9/10 points at most and defending is not how the game should be played....Its all fine and dandy picking guys who can run for 70 mins but why is there seemingly a rule that this is more important than kicking scores....
Anyway awaiting all the vitriol towards McDonnell that was thrown at the Dublin players last year..
Dunno DFS if you look at the video you will see Gallagher has a kick at McDonnell as the ball goes in, which is probably why that incident started. Don't think McDonnell is the type for that usually so there will be no backlash.
As poor a game a football as I've seen... awful stuff and Fermanagh's lack of forwars will mean they don't win anything this year. Having said that they will beat Kildare and if they got Cork I would fancy them to win that too and anything can happen in an AISF.
People can talk all they want about the puke in Ulster football but the bottom line is that there are 5 Ulster teams in the last 12 (Derry and Donegal both knocked out by Ulster teams I might add). Whilst it's not pretty it's damn sure effective and any team not prepared to deal with the blanket will be waving bye bye (Derry and Donegal). To be honest I fancy Kerry to be beaten by Monaghan and the Ulster teams to win all 4 Round 3 qualifiers. I wish it weren't that way though and teams could just go out an play and everyone enjoy the skill and some great shootouts but alas this ill not happen, winning is the business these days and this decade has proved that to win it you have to do it ugly sometimes!
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on July 28, 2008, 01:23:31 AM
QuoteBold prediction. Armagh to lose by 4!
.....a real mystic Meg aren't you
Just saw this :D :D :D... OK I got it wron and let romance dictate what my head should've known. Having said that if Fermanagh had an any way decent free taker I still think thy'd have won. I think you might be still crabbit about Limerick getting beat given you thought they were the saviour of Munster football's questions over quality... ah well maybe next year for them.
Screen - And last year Rooney had a grab at Vaughan before he reacted after the goal and the Laois guys had a go at Brogan before they started pointing to the scoreboard but no-one accepted that as being acceptable.....
Yes but the last 2 years have shown the Ulster teams getting to the 3rd round/qtr-finals but no further and likely to happen again...
This winning ugly lark I think is done by teams who's players/managers are scared to actually go out and play football the way it should be played and who are incapable of training/coaching a team to win playing good football and are resorting to negative defensive football because it is the easiest way to train/coach players rather than promoting attacking positive football......
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
Your assertion is glib and sweeping without attempting to use any examples or analyse particular incidents to illustrate your point, big lad ;)
Again I have to disagree!!!!!I am merely relating information passed to me and never attempted to add any weight as to its' veracity! ;)
Gaelic football suicide on Fermanagh's part. To run the game the way they did and come in at half time was demoralising and it was a very average Armagh team that beat a Fermanagh team with the inability to take their scores. Their inexperience and naivety cost them the game yesterday and Armagh's experience and pedigree seen them through. With 10 minutes left there was still only 2 points in the game so both teams will need major improvments if they are to beat any other team on their next appearances...
A major disappointment for all Fermanagh folk to watch their team implode in front of them on their biggest day.
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 27, 2008, 08:46:42 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 25, 2008, 05:18:40 PM
I've enjoyed the views and opinions today, but I am moving on for a while now, planning to be back here some time on Tuesday after the Fermanagh celebrations have calmed down a bit but I won't be gloating, well not much anyway
Good Luck, may the best team win on Sunday ;)
Didnt expect to hear from you today Sammy, did the celebrations get wrapped up early
Onion Bag, the celebrations were put on ice when Stevie from Killeavy hit the Onion Bag >:(
Yous kicked yourselves out of it, Why wasnt brew on fro the start, It was obvious that the free taking was not sorted from the 1st day, Owens was a big loss, but when you are playing against a seasoned and experienced team like Armagh, you only get one chance to overturn them.
Terrible Ulster Final for a neutral. On their first half performance both teams would have trouble beatin London never mind win an AI.
Fermanagh's inept free-taking began to affect confidence all over the field and they knew man for man they should have been out of sight at half-time. Ownes getting stretched off capped their day off and Armagh probably should have beaten them by double scores such was Fermanagh's listlessness in the last 15mins.
Anyway Armagh are in the 1/4 finals which is what they probably wanted more than another Anglo Celt while Fermanagh have a relatively easy back-door passage, when what they really wanted was the Anglo Celt! Such is life!
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 28, 2008, 09:07:13 AM
Onion Bag, the celebrations were put on ice when Stevie from Killeavy hit the Onion Bag >:(
If Stevie hadnt of hit the net the celebrations would still have been on ice.
Jaysus Sammy, do you honestly think ye would have won?
Fermanagh were comprehensively beaten
ffs, of course we weren't going to win 4 points down with 2 minutes to play, that was the final nail in the coffin
Fermanagh's inexperience and lack of self belief (which diminished watching the umpire's arms waving around for 35 minutes) after being on top for so long without pulling away from Armagh.
Very poor match yesterday & if both sides play as poorly again then they won't in any ASF.
Fermanagh played out football sucicide yesterday, it really does to show how important a decent freetaker is i.e Paul Finaly the difference against Donegal. Some of the Fermanagh wides were embarrassing. Armagh were'nt far behind them. T Kernan did'nt work, however it does seem to have given Stephen K a kick up the ass as he played very well when he came on. Indeed it was his excellent run which laid to the goal.
I thought Mc Donnell was held very well all day, clarke had a better day out. Class come through in the end & even though stevie had an off day (You could see he was frustrated) he stil ened up with 1-3 (I think)
I thought the Armagh backs were excellent, (Though Moriairty is suspect under the high ball) Bellew, A Kernan & Mc Keever were immense. Martin O ROurke had a fantastic game as well. I actually thought ARmagh won mid field yesterday. Mc Grane was my man of the match & Toner really came of age.
A fanatastic seventh ulster title, now lets give sam a real lash (The Draw next sunday will be fascinating) Good luck to fermanagh against kildare (Keep the heads up)
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 28, 2008, 09:25:04 AM
ffs, of course we weren't going to win 4 points down with 2 minutes to play, that was the final nail in the coffin
You said the celebrations were put on ice when the goal was scored.....
I said the game was over well before that ::)
Not taking the defeat graciously are we...
To get away from the footbal for a second but staying with the occasion on Clones, did anyone notice the talent floating round clones yesterday and im not talking about the talent on the pitch, jasus it was mighty ;)
It seems to me that the anti-Armagh brigade cant decide whether
a) Armagh were crap, only sneaked over the finish line, and wont go any further
or
b) Armagh were immense, played their best football, but have now peaked and wont go any further
Delighted for Paul McGrane. Thought he answered the critics superbly! An absolute mammoth performance round the middle (And all over!!!!!), deserved of the man of the match award! What a legend!
Brian Mallon had a super game also!
although it was very tough to watch, there were still only 4 points in it when the goal was scored, Armagh were finding it tough to put Fermanagh away even though Fermanagh could not put the ball over the bar...
2 kicks of the ball would have put Fermangh in front although the fact we cannot seem to score a "normal" goal was also going to make that extremely unlikely
here, we got beat fair and square although I feel Fermanagh (mainly the forwards) have only themselves to blame for the loss
What a truely awful game for the neutral. And I know there will not be an Armagh fan or players with gives a toss.....but it was awful. The big question.....is there a free taker alive in Fermangh. :'( :'(
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on July 28, 2008, 09:55:12 AM
What a truely awful game for the neutral. And I know there will not be an Armagh fan or players with gives a toss.....but it was awful. The big question.....is there a free taker alive in Fermangh. :'( :'(
Peter McGinnity was there yesterday and he has a great left peg! If we had have stuck him in at full forward he might have won us the game with those free kicks :P
Quote from: sammymaguire on July 28, 2008, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on July 28, 2008, 09:55:12 AM
What a truely awful game for the neutral. And I know there will not be an Armagh fan or players with gives a toss.....but it was awful. The big question.....is there a free taker alive in Fermangh. :'( :'(
Peter McGinnity was there yesterday and he has a great left peg! If we had have stuck him in at full forward he might have won us the game with those free kicks :P
seriously...you are right
sad to see such a glib comment being agreed with on a serious note!!
Awful game. the only peoplewho won't give a damn armagh obviously.
handy route to the quarter final secured and a couple of weeks break sorted. seems like the perfect build up for once.
heaven forbid we'd have to bate down again!
not bad for a team in transition!
I gotta say I'm delighted by how the game panned out. My fear was that we would come back and annihilate Fermanagh by playing the best football possible. That was far from the case, we haven't even begun to play anywhere near our ability yet which I feel suits just fine - peaking at this stage would have been disaster.
I think we did learn more than Fermanagh from the drawn game, Mid-field tightened up (as borne out by McGranes Man of the match), much more ball was won off the break (thank you Marty O'Rourke and Brian Mallon) and our ability to disposes Fermanagh around our 1/2 back line was pretty awsome (more of that thanks very much).
Having said that it was a lack lustre overall performance, a terrible (first half) game to watch - but look - that's Ulster Final football - lets move on. I'm looking forward to seeing Fermangh meeting Kildare and i think it's a good draw fro both teams, teh only fear I have is that Kildare are on the back of a win and Fermanagh are on the back of a lossing Provincial final (they';re shooting can't be as bad again.......can it)
The Championship starts now.
Cant see what ye learnt......fermanagh learnt how to kick wides....if they had of scored them the game was gone and as i said nothinglearnt....more to do with fermanaghs inadequacies than anything else.
Quote from: Down Gael on July 27, 2008, 10:39:14 PM
Leo thats twice I have agreed with you today. I turned the TV off at 4 points apiece and the wide count mounting. Puke football at its worst, I`d say Spillane had a fit watching that game. I was channel hopping too and ended up watching the rugby league on BBC2, to be honest I hadnt realised it wasnt the Ulster final.
It doesnt matter how many Ulsters Armagh win, they usually sh*t themselves when they get to Dublin. At least Big Joe was a likebale sort, you couldnt begrudge him an AI, that McDonnell is as hateful as the players.
knows his football well, good opioion ::), very intelligent one too, by the way was there many in your class at school ;D
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on July 28, 2008, 11:11:16 AM
Cant see what ye learnt......fermanagh learnt how to kick wides....if they had of scored them the game was gone and as i said nothinglearnt....more to do with fermanaghs inadequacies than anything else.
Armagh hit a lot of wides too. They dropped a few short also. Lessons they learnt was not to be complacent, to track back & tackle hard to the finish. Not to sub our main ball winners! Not to get caught in possession! & not allow Fermanagh's main score finder the last day a sniff!
What do people think of Paul Kernan? Could start in place of Finnian Mo next day imo, although I was surprised that Donaghy didn't come on for Mallon
ANyone else puliing their hair out with regard to heartys kick-outs, how many time did he bypass our mid field. Has he ever heard of a short kick out? I still think he is a liability
Not a lot has been made of Ciaran O'Reilly missing for fermanagh, mainly because he was out all year injured. Certainly fermanagh could have done with his dead ball skills yesterday.
Armagh reminded me a bit of the Germany soccer team, not the best 15 in the country but disciplined and efficient.
Still have a few reservations about Armagh however. If McDonnell and Clarke were to have an off day or be very well marked (easier said than done) they will definitely struggle for scores. In the wide open spaces of Croker the full back line could be stretched too. If they do meet the Dub's down the line I think they would struggle to thwart the dublin attack and its movement IMO.
QuoteANyone else puliing their hair out with regard to heartys kick-outs, how many time did he bypass our mid field.
Is it not normal for a keeper to get the ball as far away from the goal-mouth as possible?
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 28, 2008, 11:49:24 AM
QuoteANyone else puliing their hair out with regard to heartys kick-outs, how many time did he bypass our mid field.
Is it not normal for a keeper to get the ball as far away from the goal-mouth as possible?
I thought the kick outs were superb, it was upto the players to know how far he can kick it!
Anyone hear on how Andy Mallon is? I heard 'Broken Arm', 'Metal Plates required', 'end of career' blah blah blah???
Can't afford to loose a corner back of his ability if we are starring down the barrel of Croke Park!!
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 28, 2008, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 28, 2008, 11:49:24 AM
QuoteANyone else puliing their hair out with regard to heartys kick-outs, how many time did he bypass our mid field.
Is it not normal for a keeper to get the ball as far away from the goal-mouth as possible?
I thought the kick outs were superb, it was upto the players to know how far he can kick it!
No its not about kicking it as far as you can, its about securing possession
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 28, 2008, 11:56:56 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 28, 2008, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 28, 2008, 11:49:24 AM
QuoteANyone else puliing their hair out with regard to heartys kick-outs, how many time did he bypass our mid field.
Is it not normal for a keeper to get the ball as far away from the goal-mouth as possible?
I thought the kick outs were superb, it was upto the players to know how far he can kick it!
No its not about kicking it as far as you can, its about securing possession
I'd rather lose the ball in the oppositions half!
QuoteWhat do people think of Paul Kernan? Could start in place of Finnian Mo next day imo, although I was surprised that Donaghy didn't come on for Mallon
Thought he done rightly, didn't notice him much but his man didn't really figur. Cant see him starting ahead of Moriarty, dont think he's done much wrong and I actually think he's been playing well. Could be wrong but I think his man has been subbed in every championship match so far. I was a bit surprised that donaghy didn't come on for mallon as well, he must be seen as a full back or half back. Looks like McNulty's finished though.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 28, 2008, 11:29:09 AM
ANyone else puliing their hair out with regard to heartys kick-outs, how many time did he bypass our mid field. Has he ever heard of a short kick out? I still think he is a liability
I thought that the midfield were positioned deeper that normal, so they were more at fault.
Quote from: Travis T O Justice on July 28, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
Anyone hear on how Andy Mallon is? I heard 'Broken Arm', 'Metal Plates required', 'end of career' blah blah blah???
Can't afford to loose a corner back of his ability if we are starring down the barrel of Croke Park!!
heard the same travis, plates required in the arm and the season will more than likely be over.
will be a massive loss..
Quote from: Hank Everlast on July 28, 2008, 12:52:30 PM
Quote from: Travis T O Justice on July 28, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
Anyone hear on how Andy Mallon is? I heard 'Broken Arm', 'Metal Plates required', 'end of career' blah blah blah???
Can't afford to loose a corner back of his ability if we are starring down the barrel of Croke Park!!
heard the same travis, plates required in the arm and the season will more than likely be over.
will be a massive loss..
That's horrible news! - Losing the best defensive corner back in the country is a major blow!
QuoteLooks like McNulty's finished though.
McDonnell seems to favour the more mobile players!
Maybe he is being kept in the squad, as it's cheaper than employing him!!?
That's bad news...........Andy will be a huge loss. I would have more confidence with Donaghy as the replacement, rather than P Kernan. Enda is well down the pecking order, his performance in Clones in the league appears to have been the last straw.
As others have said, Paul McGrane's performance was awesome yesterday, it's no mean feat to keep Marty McGrath quiet. Any criticism of McGrane and Toner after last week was unwarranted, but I like to see some of our players with a point to prove (McGrane, AK, C McKeever) as they seem to revel in that position.
Quote from: Kentucky Blue on July 28, 2008, 11:40:14 AM
Not a lot has been made of Ciaran O'Reilly missing for fermanagh, mainly because he was out all year injured. Certainly fermanagh could have done with his dead ball skills yesterday.
Armagh reminded me a bit of the Germany soccer team, not the best 15 in the country but disciplined and efficient.
Still have a few reservations about Armagh however. If McDonnell and Clarke were to have an off day or be very well marked (easier said than done) they will definitely struggle for scores. In the wide open spaces of Croker the full back line could be stretched too. If they do meet the Dub's down the line I think they would struggle to thwart the dublin attack and its movement IMO.
I would say that Clarke and McDonnell have rarely been marked so well as they were yesterday but both of them kept going to end and got their scores and others did step up, particularly B Mallon. We won yesterday without Clarke and McDonnell playing particularly well which is encouraging.
I can't stand these morons who make those sorts of comments -ie 'If McDonnell and Clarke had an off day' blah blah - if my Ma had a dick she'd be my Da - wise up!
A great win yeterday, and with the possible exception of the 2005 replay win over Tyrone, as sweet an Ulster Title as any. ;D
It truly is a privilege to have been around at the same time as Mc Grane, Mc Donnell etc, not forgetting those who have retired like Mc Geeney. It is also a travesty of justice that a lesser team like Tyrone has captured two all Irelands in recent years while Armagh have only one. Te truthis that Armagh along with Kerry have been the two outstanding teams of the last decade.Hopefully this will be rectified this September.
Bumped into my old school pal Adrian Dunbar yesterday after the game. Modest as ever and gracious in defeat (two qualities that could never be applied to myself, I must admit ;D)
Your pain is palpable. lol
Posts like this make being a Tyrone fan all the more enjoyable! lol
Great teams win the ultimate prize on a regular basis and Ulster titles for a team of Armaghs ambitions isn't the ultimate prize. The season starts now for Armagh and they, like every other team, will be judged in September.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 28, 2008, 03:56:03 PM
A great win yeterday, and with the possible exception of the 2005 replay win over Tyrone, as sweet an Ulster Title as any. ;D
It truly is a privilege to have been around at the same time as Mc Grane, Mc Donnell etc, not forgetting those who have retired like Mc Geeney. It is also a travesty of justice that a lesser team like Tyrone has captured two all Irelands in recent years while Armagh have only one. Te truthis that Armagh along with Kerry have been the two outstanding teams of the last decade.Hopefully this will be rectified this September.
Bumped into my old school pal Adrian Dunbar yesterday after the game. Modest as ever and gracious in defeat (two qualities that could never be applied to myself, I must admit ;D)
What are you basing that on? A couple of Ulster's? Armagh are the great choker's of the decade my friend and shouldn't be uttered in the same breath as Kerry! (And yes I am well aware that Derry were the main bottlers for 10 years before Armagh took over from them)
Oh and by the way my post earlier last week was way off the mark... that's what I get for trying to be bold. McGrane really dumped my theory with a great performance whilst O'Rourke and Ciaran McKeever were immense also. Armagh will be hard stopped but must still be worried about the amount of chances Fermanagh had and the fact they played woefully up front. I wouldn't fancy them to have another off day like that.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 06:50:12 PM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Maybe the dubs should try it other way coz they havent had much success in recent years with the so called traditional way, you are out to win, not to look good, "win at all costs"
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 28, 2008, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 06:50:12 PM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Maybe the dubs should try it other way coz they havent had much success in recent years with the so called traditional way, you are out to win, not to look good, "win at all costs"
Well I certainly don't advocate a "win at all costs" approach at all and would certainly not be happy if we tried to play like Fermanagh etc....and we didn't have success in the last couple of years (even if have done better than any Ulster team over last 2 years) it was more due to missing chances than any other fault in my mind...
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 07:28:44 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 28, 2008, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 06:50:12 PM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Maybe the dubs should try it other way coz they havent had much success in recent years with the so called traditional way, you are out to win, not to look good, "win at all costs"
Well I certainly don't advocate a "win at all costs" approach at all and would certainly not be happy if we tried to play like Fermanagh etc....
That's f**king loser talk if I ever heard it.
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2008, 07:42:01 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 07:28:44 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 28, 2008, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 06:50:12 PM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Maybe the dubs should try it other way coz they havent had much success in recent years with the so called traditional way, you are out to win, not to look good, "win at all costs"
Well I certainly don't advocate a "win at all costs" approach at all and would certainly not be happy if we tried to play like Fermanagh etc....
That's f**king loser talk if I ever heard it.
You think that if you want....if you want to advocate the diving, cheating, fouling etc and ultra defensive to win football thats your choice....I believe if you want to win you should try and win with style and its the hardest way to win which most teams are incapable of...
No you don't. If Dublin could win dirty you would love it, they just cant. Deny it all you want, but you know it is true.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 06:50:12 PM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Didn't engage in the debate about the Dublin players,have already said that I won't condemn Stevie and that's about it!
Your use of the phrase 'To my mind' is really what it's all about,I don't like watching games of 'tag' football where no serious tackling or defending take place.I love to see Stevie Mc Donnell delivering the goods,but it's all the better when he has to work for it and uses all his class to overcome the attentions of a top class defender.As I said before,nobody has the copyright on how football should be played,it's all in the rule-book!
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2008, 07:55:46 PM
No you don't. If Dublin could win dirty you would love it, they just cant. Deny it all you want, but you know it is true.
They could win dirty - ie they could have taken Mulligan out totally going through for that goal but thats not how to play....they could have injured Mortimer early but didn't and wouldn't approve either...again if you like that fair enough
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 08:05:38 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 06:50:12 PM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Didn't engage in the debate about the Dublin players,have already said that I won't condemn Stevie and that's about it!
Your use of the phrase 'To my mind' is really what it's all about,I don't like watching games of 'tag' football where no serious tackling or defending take place.I love to see Stevie Mc Donnell delivering the goods,but it's all the better when he has to work for it and uses all his class to overcome the attentions of a top class defender.As I said before,nobody has the copyright on how football should be played,it's all in the rule-book!
Where did I say I didn't like tackling or defending at all??? The problem is that most teams defenders are poor so that they need to bring back the half forwards etc to cover for the defenders inadequacy...My belief is that in rather than teaching defenders how to defend properly and mark a forward themselves they compensate by getting the half forwards/midfield to drop back so far to cover for them.....and they aren't able to teach forwards to play as forwards and kicking a good score so they use them as defenders.....
Congratulations to Armagh, deserving winners on the day. We have nobody else to blame but ourselves, it is not neccessarily the amount we missed but the relative ease of the chances that is more upsetting to me. I was glad to see Goan show the defender that he is, he really stood up to the challenge that McDonnell presented him. OTB made some good points earlier, our confidence seemed to wane with our profligacy.
As for McDonnell goading Gallagher, well TBH he probably deserved it. I don't think he would behave in that way without provocation. However, M O'Rourke leaves me with a sour taste every time I see him on a football field. It is one thing to react to provocation, which invariably you end up regrettting, but to actively seek out and incite a reaction from every opponent you face on a pitch, game in game out is just downright pitiful. Added to this he throws himself to the ground at the slightest touch and engages in verbals with anyone who is stupid enough to humour him. When we played Armagh in the McKenna Cup in Jan 2007 up in Lurgan, I left the game with the same sour taste. I cannot even remember the result of the game as the overriding feeling was disgust. Normally I can accept some level of these antics but he really just takes it a step too far for me.
There is no point people looking at the performance of Armagh and discounting them for that sole reason, they came to win and they did just that. Whoever they play in the Quarters will be an entirely different game.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 07:54:08 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2008, 07:42:01 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 07:28:44 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on July 28, 2008, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 28, 2008, 06:50:12 PM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 28, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
All the feedback I am getting is that Gallagher did not behave in a very gentlemanly way throughout the two matches, but I would still rather Stevie rose above it, if he he felt he couldn't let it go on this occcasion I won't condemn him.The rest of your post is just plain stupid.Who holds the rights on how to 'play football the way it should be played'?The only blueprint for how the game should be played is contained in the rule book.
So what if Gallagher wasn't gentlemanly....that wasn't acceptable an excuse when Dublin players reacted...
To my mind football should be played with forward up front picked for scoring power and defenders picked to defend and not picking 13 athletes who run around and defend and 2 players who can score....it is a spectator sport and boring negative football isn't exactly a source of great long term support
Maybe the dubs should try it other way coz they havent had much success in recent years with the so called traditional way, you are out to win, not to look good, "win at all costs"
Well I certainly don't advocate a "win at all costs" approach at all and would certainly not be happy if we tried to play like Fermanagh etc....
That's f**king loser talk if I ever heard it.
You think that if you want....if you want to advocate the diving, cheating, fouling etc and ultra defensive to win football thats your choice....I believe if you want to win you should try and win with style and its the hardest way to win which most teams are incapable of...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mc9VY7BKKCw//
Dublin trying to win with style
Are you seriously trying to tell me that the 12 starting defenders yesterday could not 'defend'.Did you not see some of the tacklling,did you not see some of the tackling last week? Players do not defend in isolaton, teams defend as units, right from the full-forward line. If one part of the team do not do the job properly then it is impossible to defend. If you look at the tactics employed it is not a case simply of withdrawing players, it is fluid with forwards helping out defenses and defenders helping out attacks (Finnian Moriarty's goal). Your view is symptomatic of the lazy blanket-defense anaysis employed on television this past few years.
On the Mulligan goal-PaulCasey couldn't have caught him with the help of Interpol or the Mafia!
Not a bad assessment Slapdash. Can't say I share your hatred of MOR though. Always thought he was an underrated part of the team, wish we had a few men as ignorant. Was disgusted with McDonnell at the time too, but as you say Gallagher isn't short of a few things to say.
Nothing to say on the game except it was a real let down. Glad to see the team standing out on the pitch to see the Armagh celebrations and recieve the f*cking hip hips. Still an awful lot to play for here and it would be a real shame and a disservice to their ability to just bow out tamely now. We should have more heart than that, and I really think we will bounce back.
PS. Get well Ciaran O'Reilly! And Barry Owens, ligament damage apparently. Hope it doesn't affect his wedding later in the summer, poor lad's had the year from hell (apart from that goal).
All is still relatively well in the world.
Allegations of a spitting incident for the second consecutive week. Anyone else hear this?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 28, 2008, 09:52:17 PM
All is still relatively well in the world.
Allegations of a spitting incident for the second consecutive week. Anyone else hear this?
Elaborate plz....
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 28, 2008, 09:52:17 PM
All is still relatively well in the world.
Allegations of a spitting incident for the second consecutive week. Anyone else hear this?
By whom, on whom?
I was in Italy last week, and was walking past some old Italian woman who chewing her cud. Just as I was passing she hoiked and spat. At the time it didnt worry me in the slighest but I guess I should have fell down and rolled over a few times... the bitch.
The drawn game turned out to be a good result for Armagh, highlighted again some of the areas that needed addressing, better to find that out at this stage than in croke park. It took them to the second half to really address things, but they did so eventually. McGrane was immense and Toner had a great game, making a lot of important tackles. The reason Armagh haven't won more AIs in recent years is the half forward line not adding enough support and scores.
McDonnell was heavily goaded by Gallagher in the first game and McCluskey's a bit a of a talker as well. But he shouldn't have let them drag him down to their level - the best response is to play well and wish them all the best in the qualifiers.
(http://static.flickr.com/51/131603316_d9df24d072_o.jpg)
Sorry, I thought you said turnups.
some of you boys have too much time on your hands ;D
I thought the Fermanagh turnovers were better.
Especially the soccer star, who kicked the ball into Aaron Kernans hands while he was attempting a toe-tap.
QuoteAdded to this he throws himself to the ground at the slightest touch
I thought Armagh were made to work a hell of a lot harder for frees that their Fermanagh counterparts.
I am sure he is worried Slapdash when he is sitting counting his medals this morning.
The only disappointing aspect on Sunday was the failure of Francie to answer the call of his people during the Trophy presentation. The lad must be incredibly shy ???
QuoteThe only disappointing aspect on Sunday was the failure of Francie to answer the call of his people during the Trophy presentation.
The lad had done what was needed of him on the pitch. He's not a performing monkey for the enjoyment of the buckfast brigade. Maybe you could sponsor his jersey Tony and get the small-town fame you've craved for so long??
He should nevertheless put himself forward ro receive the acclaim of the masses, when they bay for him to do so. His failure to do so, detracted somewhat from the enjoyment on Sunday
Quote from: T Fearon on July 29, 2008, 09:26:13 AM
He should nevertheless put himself forward ro receive the acclaim of the masses, when they bay for him to do so. His failure to do so, detracted somewhat from the enjoyment on Sunday
Ach jaysus Tony, would ye ever give over, the man is a very private, shy individual who likes to keep himself to himself, not an attention whoreb who likes to see his name in print all the time!!!!!
QuoteHe should nevertheless put himself forward ro receive the acclaim of the masses
Why should he have?
Quotethey bay for him to do so. His failure to do so, detracted somewhat from the enjoyment on Sunday
Only for the buckfast brigade as stated earlier. Real GAA fans wouldnt want or expect such a thing.
I know he is shy, but a simple skip up the steps to raise the trophy was surely not too much to ask? As it happens the masses are disappointed but still it will not diminish the reverence within which he is held
I was up near the podium myself on Sunday and the joy of the likes of Mc Grane, Bull Mc Keever, Stevie etc was great to witness close hand. FFS, it is customary in most sports that all team members go up when the trophy presentation is being made and raise the trophy individually. They don't do it for egotistical reasons, but just to share in the joy of the supporters.Players get enough stick at times so they should lap up the praise in times of success.Also it would do no harm if the losing team went up before the winners to receive the acclaim of their own fans and opposing supporters. The Fermanagh players were cheered off by the Armagh masses round the podium after the presentation on Sunday, which was right and proper.
Of course if the GAA would do the proper thing, ie present the winners and losers medals to the players with the trophy,immediately after the game.
Anyone knwo what the crack is with the Quarters and where they are likley to be played? Heard Dublin are getting Croke Park all to themselves on 9th and Cork are pushing for a Triple header on the Sunday - does that push us out down the Country...ha, ha Clones again maybe!!!!
Surely it will depend on the draw. If its Armagh V Kerry for example, it would surely have to be at Croker.
Quote from: Travis T O Justice on July 29, 2008, 01:35:48 PM
Heard Dublin are getting Croke Park all to themselves on 9th and Cork are pushing for a Triple header on the Sunday - does that push us out down the Country...ha, ha Clones again maybe!!!!
Where did you hear this travis? Hopefully Down win against Wexford and don't draw Dublin for the quarters, and then I'll get to the match! Work every Saturday and can't get out of it, these last few away qualifiers are a killer couldnt get to either...and now I can't get to Saturdays game either...I was praying yesterday for a Sunday game for us :(
Quote from: Travis T O Justice on July 29, 2008, 01:35:48 PM
Anyone knwo what the crack is with the Quarters and where they are likley to be played? Heard Dublin are getting Croke Park all to themselves on 9th and Cork are pushing for a Triple header on the Sunday - does that push us out down the Country...ha, ha Clones again maybe!!!!
Is it definetly that w'end?
Quarter finals definitely next weekend august 9th+10th double header saturday and sunday!
All Ireland semis Sunday 24th and Sunday 31st August
Final Sunday 21st September
QuoteQuarter finals definitely next weekend august 9th+10th double header saturday and sunday!
it is not that easy, perhaps the Cork game could be moved along with the hurling on the Sunday but that leaves 3 games. The likes of Dublin v Tyrone or Mayo Kerry Down etc would fill Croke Pk by itself, while combinations like Armagh v Kerry or Galway v Down would largely fill Croke Pk in a double header.
The GAA have created a situation where the 3 round teams are all in Croke Pk but the Provincial winners are not all going to get a game in Croke Pk.
if thats the case its an absolute disgrace. Provincial winners should have right of passage to Croker
especially if the qualfiers are getting a game in it
I don't necessarily think all quarter finals should have to be in Croke Park but this year I'd say they probably will be again.
SOme had suggested on here and I think they're probably close to the mark that the Dubs could be moved to the 16th as the winners' semi wouldn't be until 31st leaving Armagh and Galway to play their respective quarter finals in a double header at Croke Park on the 9th, assuming they take the common sense approach and play Cork's quarter final alongside the hurling.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 29, 2008, 03:58:46 PM
if thats the case its an absolute disgrace. Provincial winners should have right of passage to Croker
Why should they have the right to a game in Croke Park.....one of the main reasons there is this problem is by cutting down the time taken for the championship to suit the club games...
Dublin will be a stand alone game and won't be moved - if they are moved to the 16th and its a draw it isn't fair or right.
QuoteWhy should they have the right to a game in Croke Park.....one of the main reasons there is this problem is by cutting down the time taken for the championship to suit the club games...
Dublin will be a stand alone game and won't be moved - if they are moved to the 16th and its a draw it isn't fair or right.
If other teams don't have the right to play in Croke, then why do Dublin have the right not only to play a home game in Croke Park but also to have it on their own?
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 29, 2008, 06:34:10 PM
QuoteWhy should they have the right to a game in Croke Park.....one of the main reasons there is this problem is by cutting down the time taken for the championship to suit the club games...
Dublin will be a stand alone game and won't be moved - if they are moved to the 16th and its a draw it isn't fair or right.
If other teams don't have the right to play in Croke, then why do Dublin have the right not only to play a home game in Croke Park but also to have it on their own?
Is it not best to have it organised so that the most possible fans get to see the games at the least cost to them?
The Central Competitions Control Committee of the GAA has confirmed that Carlow and Westmeath were given the option of playing the Christy Ring Cup Final as a curtain raiser to the All Ireland Football Quarter Final game involving Dublin in Croke Park. This is scheduled for Saturday, 9th August and would have guaranteed the game being played before a capacity attendance. Both counties refused this option. As there are two triple bills in Croke Park on Saturday and Sunday next weekend involving the Tommy Murphy and Nicky Rackard Cup Finals on respective days and as there will also be a triple bill at the stadium on Sunday, 10th August, there was no choice but to play the Christy Ring cup Final on Friday evening, 1st August if it was to be played at headquarters (the counties also got an option of playing the game in Portlaoise at7.00pm on Saturday next).
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 29, 2008, 06:52:45 PM
The Central Competitions Control Committee of the GAA has confirmed that Carlow and Westmeath were given the option of playing the Christy Ring Cup Final as a curtain raiser to the All Ireland Football Quarter Final game involving Dublin in Croke Park. This is scheduled for Saturday, 9th August and would have guaranteed the game being played before a capacity attendance. Both counties refused this option. As there are two triple bills in Croke Park on Saturday and Sunday next weekend involving the Tommy Murphy and Nicky Rackard Cup Finals on respective days and as there will also be a triple bill at the stadium on Sunday, 10th August, there was no choice but to play the Christy Ring cup Final on Friday evening, 1st August if it was to be played at headquarters (the counties also got an option of playing the game in Portlaoise at7.00pm on Saturday next).
Hardly dubforsam, the dubs cant make it to the ground in time to see the dubs play, there is little chance them making it in to see the other match
QuoteDublin will be a stand alone game and won't be moved
Why play one game when you can play two?
The root of the problem here is having the football QFs, which throws up many fixtures suitable for a Dublin location, on the same weekend as the hurling, which is inevitably played in Croke Pk even when Thurles would suit. There is no Thurles type venue in the northern half of the country.
QuoteIs it not best to have it organised so that the most possible fans get to see the games at the least cost to them?
In general this is a proper basis for organising fixtures. There is an issue when the cost is reduced for one set of fans at the expense of the other. There is also an issue when one set of fans are shunted into an inconvenient location to suit another set of fans.
Who was that tube who did the presentation of the Anglo Celt on Sunday; he droned on and on as many of these boys do when they get near a microphone?
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 29, 2008, 08:28:46 PM
Who was that tube who did the presentation of the Anglo Celt on Sunday; he droned on and on as many of these boys do when they get near a microphone?
Tom Daly.
QuoteWho was that tube who did the presentation of the Anglo Celt on Sunday; he droned on and on as many of these boys do when they get near a microphone?
He completely ripped the ass out of it. He must have talked for close to 5 minutes!
Regarding the playing of the 3rd round of the qualifiers in Croke Park....I disagree with this. All teams coming thru next weekend's games have the advantage of having a game in Croker under their belts before their quarter final opponents get near the place (with the exception of Dublin).
Congratulations to Peter Mc Donnell on winning the Ulster Championship in his first season as Armagh manager.
Also congrats to his backroom staff......Well done boys.
It is disappointing that he is not being shown much appreciation from Armagh posters on this board :(
Had Armagh lost there would have been plenty of condemnation.
Quote from: crossfire on July 29, 2008, 09:32:19 PM
Congratulations to Peter Mc Donnell on winning the Ulster Championship in his first season as Armagh manager.
Also congrats to his backroom staff......Well done boys.
It is disappointing that he is not being shown much appreciation from Armagh posters on this board :(
Had Armagh lost there would have been plenty of condemnation.
I would like to echo that crossfire, surely it has been clear to all the passion this man has for the game, his attention to detail is immense and i can vouch for that. he joins used a few elite managers who have won both Ulster club / county as well as an Ulster under 21......hopefully the All-ireland will now be added to his impressive CV!!
Looks very likely that the Armagh quarter-final will be in Clones and the Galway quarter final in Connacht, as it seems certain that Dublin will be standalone in Croker on August 9 and Cork will be a football/hurling double bill in Croker on August 10.
Quote from: Hound on July 30, 2008, 09:13:03 AM
Looks very likely that the Armagh quarter-final will be in Clones and the Galway quarter final in Connacht, as it seems certain that Dublin will be standalone in Croker on August 9 and Cork will be a football/hurling double bill in Croker on August 10.
I think that's fair enough, the provincial winners should be given "home" advantage!
Here's one for you. To the best of my recollection Paddy Moriarity scored a goal in the 1977 Ulster Final against Derry (he played full forward that day). His son Finian scored a goal in the first game against Fermanagh, Has any other father and son scored goals in Ulster Finals?
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 30, 2008, 09:16:01 AM
Quote from: Hound on July 30, 2008, 09:13:03 AM
Looks very likely that the Armagh quarter-final will be in Clones and the Galway quarter final in Connacht, as it seems certain that Dublin will be standalone in Croker on August 9 and Cork will be a football/hurling double bill in Croker on August 10.
I think that's fair enough, the provincial winners should be given "home" advantage!
I think the game should be played in croker, the simple reason being round 3 of the qualifiers os being played there, and the quarters are the next stage,
Quote from: crossfire on July 29, 2008, 09:32:19 PM
It is disappointing that he is not being shown much appreciation from Armagh posters on this board :(
Fair enough we are Ulster champions again however i'd say most Armagh posters are long in the tooth enough to not be getting too carried away. We have beaten a poor cavan outfit, Down, and Fermanagh. How good the latter two are will come out in the washing this weekend, so we will reserve judgement for another while. That said i have no complaints and the vibes are overall positive.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 30, 2008, 09:16:33 AM
Here's one for you. To the best of my recollection Paddy Moriarity scored a goal in the 1977 Ulster Final against Derry (he played full forward that day). His son Finian scored a goal in the first game against Fermanagh, Has any other father and son scored goals in Ulster Finals?
James McCartan surely
maddog how the hell are you?
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 30, 2008, 04:00:30 PM
maddog how the hell are you?
Sound, will be seeing you about shortly id say.
QuoteLooks very likely that the Armagh quarter-final will be in Clones and the Galway quarter final in Connacht, as it seems certain that Dublin will be standalone in Croker on August 9 and Cork will be a football/hurling double bill in Croker on August 10.
What if Armagh are playing Kerry or Wexford, or even Mayo? There was uproar from Sligo when the 2002 quarter final replay was initially fixed for Clones.
Does the concept of provincial winners having "home" advantage actually exist? A Wexford game wouldn't have a huge crowd, and could be fitted in a number of venues, but Armagh v Mayo would and there is no real venue between Ulster and Connacht for such a game.
If Armagh end up playing Tyrone or Down then Clones would give not them much of an advantage but it could allow the game be played on a Sunday, but this would create a ticket problem.
Armagh v Kerry in Clones does have a certain appeal though!
Did anyone think that their was no need for the man giving the speech to gon on about the Kernans? I though it was unneccesary and they were probably embarassed about it.
I thought the same myself, it wasn't really needed. If he was going to do that, why not stop there and mention the 3 O'Rourkes, 2 Clarkes etc.
Quote from: corn02 on July 30, 2008, 08:27:53 PM
Did anyone think that their was no need for the man giving the speech to gon on about the Kernans? I though it was unneccesary and they were probably embarassed about it.
Yep, I hung around cos I'm a gracious loser (tons of experience), and couldn't believe your man on the mike. Wtf? Just hand them the cup and let McGrane speak.
Do you think Big Joe will ever praise the contribution of Aidan O'Rourke?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/joe-kernan/joe-kernan-now-the-pressure-is-really-on-for-armagh-13923500.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/joe-kernan/joe-kernan-now-the-pressure-is-really-on-for-armagh-13923500.html)
QuoteArmagh v Kerry in Clones does have a certain appeal though
Does it ? I've been there its a dump.
We will see if we beat Monaghan. If we do we will probably get the Jackeens again hopefully.
Quote from: Orior on July 30, 2008, 09:19:14 PM
Do you think Big Joe will ever praise the contribution of Aidan O'Rourke?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/joe-kernan/joe-kernan-now-the-pressure-is-really-on-for-armagh-13923500.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/joe-kernan/joe-kernan-now-the-pressure-is-really-on-for-armagh-13923500.html)
LOL - The answer to that question is obvious at this stage!
Watching the game again here on iplayer. I think the arguement that Fermanagh kicked themselves out of it in the first half is overstated. Armagh missed nearly as many chances with 3 or 4 balls kicked into the keepers hands as well as wild wides from O'Rourke, Vernon and T Kernan and a ball against the post from McDonnell. I think maybe the Fermanagh misses stick in the head more because they were from scorable frees.
Just got the stats up - in the first half Armagh had 5 wides and kicked 5 into the keepers hands. fermanagh had 9 wides and 2 into the keepers hands so that's 10 and 11 altogether.
Some truth in that having watched it again, but Fermanagh's wides were from relatively simple positions. Unforgivable stuff, and unforgettable. Was counting wides and scores at the game and by twenty odd minutes we were 3-2 down I think having hit seven wides, four of them gilt edged chances.
Quote from: SCENTOFSAM on July 28, 2008, 12:46:23 AM
Quote from: orangeman on July 27, 2008, 09:29:04 PM
Nice touch for Francie getting the ovation at the end.
Was this his parting shot.
Very suspect along with Hearty!
mmm!!!!
Quote from: ONeill on July 27, 2008, 09:10:40 PM
Armagh bust a gut trying to win Ulster - a meaningless competition - and have nowt left in the tank when they meet sides coming from the real All-Ireland competition - the qualifiers.
CORRECT!
Yes, not one to say I told you so, but it's the same story almost every year. Teams don't go out to lose a game, but good managers and players know not to peak too soon. Ulster title = close to zilch for teams like Tyrone and Armagh.
jesus you've a high opinion of yourselves, might be glad of an ulster title soon.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 09, 2008, 07:10:18 PM
jesus you've a high opinion of yourselves, might be glad of an ulster title soon.
My thoughts exactly.
3 All Irelands between them ::)
and what Down would give for a couple of wins in the ulster championship :D
Quote from: INDIANA on August 09, 2008, 07:10:18 PM
jesus you've a high opinion of yourselves, might be glad of an ulster title soon.
That is true. When the current batch are long gone, we'll be crying out for one. But right now both sides have proven players that should be aiming for the highest honour.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 09, 2008, 07:13:47 PM
and what Down would give for a couple of wins in the ulster championship :D
Well we wouldnt give any of our All Irelands ;)
The great One In A Row team are no more.
Quote from: Down Gael on August 10, 2008, 10:26:45 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 09, 2008, 07:13:47 PM
and what Down would give for a couple of wins in the ulster championship :D
Well we wouldnt give any of our All Irelands ;)
The great One In A Row team are no more.
Frankly my dear, I dont give a shit. Just as long as me and my Da were alive to see the first. And there will never be another first :)
What is it with the Down lads, if they were truly the aristocrats of Ulster football surely they wouldnt even take pesky little "one in a row" armagh under their notice. However it would seem their delight in our defeat on Saturday is unmaskable. I really pity them and hope to jesus we draw them in the first round next year. You can't beat a penalty kick. ;)
QuoteWhat is it with the Down lads, if they were truly the aristocrats of Ulster football surely they wouldnt even take pesky little "one in a row" armagh under their notice.
Yet there's nothing that bothers them there. Surely a team with 20% of a decent number of All Irelands would barely even register with the all conquering Mourne men yet over the past decade, nobody has bothered them more.