Poll
Question:
Who will you vote for?
Option 1: FF
Option 2: FG
Option 3: LAB
Option 4: SF
Option 5: Others
Option 6: Greens
Option 7: Not going to Vote
The Greens to pull out first half Jan 2011, election second half of the month.
Thank God - we won't have to look at the two Brian's hapless carry on much longer. ;D
Surely Cowen will be pushed out before the election. Whatever chance FF have with a new leader, they're completely screwed if he leads them into the election.
This won't be enough to save the Greens either - they'll be very lucky to have 3 TDs returned.
There's no way Cowen won't lead FF into the next election. Who would want to take him out? It would be suicide. Better to lose your seat than lead FF into the next election!
Mammy has come out in Westmeath and said more or less that Cowen is gone and we all know that mammy knows best. :D
Cowen will be gone by Friday.
This is what we need.
But the thought of Inda and Michael Ring in government worry me.
That means Enda will be the Chief. Up Mayo!
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 12:15:14 PM
Cowen will be gone by Friday.
This is what we need.
But the thought of Inda and Michael Ring in governement worry me.
I don't see why it should, as a mayo man i dont care about Ring, he is an inconvience, thats all, and Enda may not have the personality to engage the mass media, but i for one am sick of all this man of the people shite that is trooped out. We had a man of the people (Berite) and then the second coming with Cowen and Lenihan, look where all that has got us. i have to say this week FG have impressed me, Noonan is particular has been clear, consice and calm. Gilmore has scared me a little recently, especially nominating that oaf in Donegal to run. Today is a good day the dark clouds may be starting to lift, although the poor bas**rd who gets elected in Donegal will only get the one or two days in the big smoke.
Right.
Nailing it here.
FG 60
Lab 55
FF 35
SF 6
Gobshites 10
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 12:23:37 PM
Right.
Nailing it here.
FG 60
Lab 55
FF 35
SF 6
Gobshites 10
Lab 55 is high i think. People in the country and voting Labour........................ Jesus Christ FF could get back in again :D
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 22, 2010, 12:25:10 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 12:23:37 PM
Right.
Nailing it here.
FG 60
Lab 55
FF 35
SF 6
Gobshites 10
Lab 55 is high i think. People in the country and voting Labour........................ Jesus Christ FF could get back in again :D
Don't even joke about it! :o
Lab have popular support, but have weak/unknown candidates in many constituencies so will find it hard to turn the support into seats.
Fine Gael 60
Labour 40
Fianna Fáil 45
Sinn Féin 10
Others 10/11.
This is how i think it will run in Mayo. If others do it by their constituency we'll get a better view of who total number for each party
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. John O Mahoney. (Fine Gael)
4. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
Fine Gael 67
Labour 43
Fianna Fail 35
SinnFein 6
Others 14
QuoteEarlier today, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan dismissed speculation the Greens may be considering pulling out of Government.
Speaking to reporters in Dublin this morning, Mr Lenihan said he had heard "no suggestions" that Fianna Fáil's coalition partners were about to quit.
The Greens had been "very, very loyal partners" in Government since the coalition was formed in 2007, he said.
The communication is just non existant between the government partners and more importantaly us the public. I'm amazed they have held together for so long.
I think i'll spoil my postal vote......for the banter :D
Any chance of adding a poll or will the nordies just ruin it voting for SF?
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 12:40:51 PM
Any chance of adding a poll or will the nordies just ruin it voting for SF?
Any serious poll would leave those nut jobs out.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 12:42:22 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 12:40:51 PM
Any chance of adding a poll or will the nordies just ruin it voting for SF?
Any serious poll would leave those nut jobs out.
Leave the nordies alone.
According to reports over the weekend it appears Brian Cowan will resign when the budget is pushed through.Mary Hanniffin is now firm favourite to lead Fianna Fail into the next election.
I.M.F. NOW RULING IRELAND.
Lets not forget when we are canvassed for our vote in the forthcoming election that we will be voting for somebody that will have about as much power in the Dail as our County Councillors currently have.
Can the OP add 'None of the above' or 'abstain' in the poll.
I've never not voted by choice. I missed one poll in the 26 years I've had the vote which I think was a local election and my vote was stuck in Longford and I was in Dublin.
But in Jan 2011 I will have a hobson's choice in Dun Laoghaire.
Eamon Gilmore and his No 2
Some FG goon. Dinosaur Barrett won't run again.
Mary Hanafin (her performace last night was a disgrace) and the minister for high chairs, Barry Andrews
Richard Boyd Barret (who is clueless)
Chemical Cuffe (ditto)
Sadly if FG get the ducks in order they could get two seats. Labour won't get two. Not on your nelly.
So in Dun Laoghaire, on the assumption the Hairy Lesbian Party don't run a candidate, thereby disappointing Hardy, I predict:
FG 2
Labour 1
FF 1
Andrews and Chemical to be consigned to the skip
I predict in Sligo/North Leitrim that it will go 2 FG, 1 FF. I'd like to think that FF will get what they deserve for abandoing our hospital (they called it fighting the fight on the inside ::) ) on top of everything else but I suspect there are enough gobshites to getthem one seat. SF and/or Lab will challenge for a seat though so its not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that FF could get wiped.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 01:02:53 PM
Can the OP add 'None of the above' or 'abstain' in the poll.
I've never not voted by choice. I missed one poll in the 26 years I've had the vote which I think was a local election and my vote was stuck in Longford and I was in Dublin.
But in Jan 2011 I will have a hobson's choice in Dun Laoghaire.
Eamon Gilmore and his No 2
Some FG goon. Dinosaur Barrett won't run again.
Mary Hanafin (her performace last night was a disgrace) and the minister for high chairs, Barry Andrews
Richard Boyd Barret (who is clueless)
Chemical Cuffe (ditto)
Sadly if FG get the ducks in order they could get two seats. Labour won't get two. Not on your nelly.
So in Dun Laoghaire, on the assumption the Hairy Lesbian Party don't run a candidate, thereby disappointing Hardy, I predict:
FG 2
Labour 1
FF 1
Andrews and Chemical to be consigned to the skip
SS Thats done now. Also what about Richard " down to capitalisim" Barrett, we will cause havoc in DL as usual.
In Offaly I would still expect 2 FF to return, probably Cowen with Moloney. Fleming will lose out, but sadly a national vote of 20% would still translate to 35% here, and that will push two of them over the line. FG will actually struggle to hold two since Olwyn has walked, but there still is a big FG vote in her area and it has to go somewhere. I expect them to nominate someone like Nicola Hogan, and between getting a FG vote and getting a vote from North Offaly who haven't had a TD since Ger Hyland, she should get in. Charlie Flanagan safe as houses, probably on the first count.
The fifth seat is interesting. The three contenders are Brian Stanley (SF), John Leahy (Ind) and Sean O'Brien (Lab). Stanley is getting good reviews over in Laois and a lot of those people who have the view of "They're all the same" could go his way. O'Brien is the best Labour can muster, but Laois/Offaly is typical of their problem - they simply do not have a presence in the area, and one old timer county councillor and a couple of town councillors between the two counties says it all. They'll get a vote, but O'Brien doesn't have enough about him at all to get the seat in my view. If Labour can win this one, they will get well over 50 seats nationally.
I'd say myself that John Leahy would be the narrow favourite for the fifth seat right now. He's been quite prominent since his election to local council, he has good GAA connections, he's quite energetic, young and well meaning, and he'll mop up a lot of votes around Birr who won't have a good candidate.
So my guess for Laois Offaly is 2FG, 2FF, 1 Ind.
The 2 Dublin constituencies I am familiar with will go imo
DUBLIN SOUTH
3 FG
1 LAB
1 FF
Gain for both FG and Lab. (from last GE)
DUBLIN S CENTRAL
2 LAB
1 FG
1 FF
1 SF
Gain for Lab. Can see though a Socialist/People before Profit candidate winning a seat from SF /the last FF candidate( leaving FF with zero).
AG
He got a bounce the last time as the auld wans thought he was 'cute' and, ah, he was adopted. Shur his mammy was/is an actress and his grandad was in Glenroe.
He almost got in but he hasn't a baldy this time. His record in Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown county council is one of spoiling and waffling. That will come out on the doorsteps by savvy Labour/FG/FF canvassers
Dublin West - 1FF - 1FG - 1LB - 1SP
Probably one of the more boring constituencys, preety straight forward result I'd say. Going from a 3 to a 4seater.
Brian Lenihan will prob top the poll followed closely by Leo Varadkar. Joan Burton will come in 3rd and Joe Higgans will ditch Europe and take the fourth seat.
I think Higgans is foolish if he does this. The local SP counciller could take this seat leaving him in Europe. Higgans could retain the EU seat but I don't think another SP co-op could do that. Higgans could end up losing out on an EU seat in order to promote himself in the Dail.
Dublin North has a young population in essentially a commuter belt, with a rural hinterland. Hard to see how it'll go at present but FF will lose heavily - both current seats are probably in ejopardy:
Sitting TDs:
Sargent (Green)
Reilly (FG)
O'Brien (FF)
Kennedy (FF)
Clare Daly (Socialist) has been close before and may take a seat. Brendan Ryan (Labour) may claw back his brother's seat (Sean Ryan) too, probably to the detriment of Greens/FF. Not much young blood in any of the parties showing their faces heretofore. Reilly might drag another FG with him; if he does there may be no FF seats here! Right now, I'd predict:
Reilly (FG)
Ryan (Labour)
Daly (Socialist)
O'Brien (FF)
Jackie Healy Rae has now pulled out and will not be voting for the budget, i think, all the roads around Kerry must be built by now. Students and pensioners are now his concern, i wonder are they the same students that we was handing drink vouchers out to after mass the Sunday before the election (allegedly). Lowry has said the same thing now as well. One Gombeen gone,a few more to go and more to be elected back in Jan!
There'll be an election before christmas. The budget won't pass. I've a funny feeling FF are co ordinating this more than they are letting on.
Healy Rae and Lowry still playing Irish Politics by saying Fianna Fail cannot rely on their support. As yet they have not said they will vote against the budget.
Quote from: Billys Boots on November 22, 2010, 01:25:00 PM
Dublin North has a young population in essentially a commuter belt, with a rural hinterland. Hard to see how it'll go at present but FF will lose heavily - both current seats are probably in ejopardy:
Sitting TDs:
Sargent (Green)
Reilly (FG)
O'Brien (FF)
Kennedy (FF)
Clare Daly (Socialist) has been close before and may take a seat. Brendan Ryan (Labour) may claw back his brother's seat (Sean Ryan) too, probably to the detriment of Greens/FF. Not much young blood in any of the parties showing their faces heretofore. Reilly might drag another FG with him; if he does there may be no FF seats here! Right now, I'd predict:
Reilly (FG)
Ryan (Labour)
Daly (Socialist)
O'Brien (FF)
Same for me, though I reckon Sargent might hang on as he is the only Green who can say I resigned rather than go into Government with FF. I just can't see Daly making it. Although if it ever happens for her it will be this time.
As for Mayo PSTG is predicting 4 FG and 1 FF. The reality is it will be 3 FG (Kenny, Ring and 1 from Mulherrin/O'Mahoney - probably Johnno) 1/2 FF (Calleary/Flynn - the dynasty's electoral machine should never be underestimated) and possibly 1 Labour in Jerry Cowley although he lost his seat last time for backing Shell to Sea.
so what's the timeframe?
On the radio it give that the greens had called for a general election in late january? when does the budget have to go in front of the dail by?
Will the IMF/EU get nervous over this development and as they hold the purse strings impose further conditions given the instability of government?
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 01:37:20 PM
There'll be an election before christmas. The budget won't pass. I've a funny feeling FF are co ordinating this more than they are letting on.
You and your conspiracy theories Zap, when have FF not been straight with us?
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 01:37:20 PM
There'll be an election before christmas. The budget won't pass. I've a funny feeling FF are co ordinating this more than they are letting on.
You and your conspiracy theories Zap, when have FF not been straight with us?
:D I suppose.
I think the budget won't pass. This will undermind the Green effort today. A Christmas election suits FF as they are guaranteed to get their vote out. They're like cornered rats. FG and LB will have to campaign on a 4 year plan and they will have to prove that there plans are better than eachothers but aswell as that they will have to keep the impression that they can work together. FF will be in opposition for 4 years while FG and LB push the 4 years of cuts through. Best case scenario for FF.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 12:35:24 PM
This is how i think it will run in Mayo. If others do it by their constituency we'll get a better view of who total number for each party
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. John O Mahoney. (Fine Gael)
4. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
You think O Mahoney will get his seat? I think he could be in for a surprise, hope he is.
As muppet said Jerry Cowley could be back in the frame.
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
4. Jerry Cowley
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
Quote from: AbbeySider on November 22, 2010, 01:55:10 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 12:35:24 PM
This is how i think it will run in Mayo. If others do it by their constituency we'll get a better view of who total number for each party
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. John O Mahoney. (Fine Gael)
4. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
You think O Mahoney will get his seat? I think he could be in for a surprise, hope he is.
As muppet said Jerry Cowley could be back in the frame.
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
4. Jerry Cowley
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
I for one dont want to see Cowley get next or near the Dail again. According to lads i know down his way, he lost a lot of support with his Shell to sea misjudgement. Another reason i dont want to see him in there is he is always at the top of the medical card earnings year in year out, which for a GP in rural Ireland makes me suspicious.
Ring will be due a senior ministry if he tops the poll especially after his staunch defence of Kenny this year. And that scares the bejasus out of me !
http://www.checktheregister.ie/
Deadline to register to vote is THIS Thursday 25th Nov.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 22, 2010, 02:00:40 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on November 22, 2010, 01:55:10 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 12:35:24 PM
This is how i think it will run in Mayo. If others do it by their constituency we'll get a better view of who total number for each party
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. John O Mahoney. (Fine Gael)
4. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
You think O Mahoney will get his seat? I think he could be in for a surprise, hope he is.
As muppet said Jerry Cowley could be back in the frame.
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
4. Jerry Cowley
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
I for one dont want to see Cowley get next or near the Dail again. According to lads i know down his way, he lost a lot of support with his Shell to sea misjudgement. Another reason i dont want to see him in there is he is always at the top of the medical card earnings year in year out, which for a GP in rural Ireland makes me suspicious.
I think John will get in. He will get a lot of transfers from Enda and Ring. One man I forgot about though is Jim Higgins, if he runs O'Mahony wont get in. I doubt he will leave his cushy number in Europe though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_(D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann_constituency)
Just had a look at the BBC News 24 website, its all about our country but in the list of most viewed at number 4 is "Sham Marriages" i wonder is it the Greens and FF they are on about? or maybe Jackie HR and FF? :D
Paddypower makes Enda 4/7 fav over Gilmore to be next taoiseach.
The greens are 7/4 to have no seats - must worth snapping up, surely Sargent is the only one with a shout?
Boyd Barret is 5/4 to have no seats
It's only 15/8 that labour have more than 60 seats and 7/2 that FF have less than 30.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/irish-government?ev_oc_grp_ids=46674
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 01:37:20 PM
There'll be an election before christmas. The budget won't pass. I've a funny feeling FF are co ordinating this more than they are letting on.
You and your conspiracy theories Zap, when have FF not been straight with us?
:D I suppose.
I think the budget won't pass. This will undermind the Green effort today. A Christmas election suits FF as they are guaranteed to get their vote out. They're like cornered rats. FG and LB will have to campaign on a 4 year plan and they will have to prove that there plans are better than eachothers but aswell as that they will have to keep the impression that they can work together. FF will be in opposition for 4 years while FG and LB push the 4 years of cuts through. Best case scenario for FF.
I don't think there's any doubt the budget will pass. I think that's why the greens are hanging around til January.
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
FG 65
Labour 45
FF 35
SF 7
Others 14
Quote from: mc_grens on November 22, 2010, 02:40:07 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 01:53:46 PMI don't think there's any doubt the budget will pass. I think that's why the greens are hanging around til January.
For one thing the greens may have miscalculated, there's about 45/50 FF TD's who are very, very worried about their future employment prospects (it's good that they'll be able to empathaise with the rest of us). The first one or two of them to revolt will have a lot better chance of getting back in than the ones who toe the extremely unpopular party line.
And, it only needs one or two of them to revolt.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:44 PM
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
Explain that, because, I have heard that being pedalled several times, but I have no idea why that is the case.
Remember this beauty - The last thing the Country needs is an election. We need stability blah blah
Here in Cork South Central it looks entirely plausible that FF will hold on to their two seats and that there'll be no change in the current 2FF, 2FG, 1 LP line-up.
Their two TDs, Micheál Martin and Micheal McGrath were both elected on the first count the last time.
If the latest opinion poll ratings are applied as first preference vote projections, FG would get 2 quotas, FF 1.6 and LP 1. That leaves FG needing another quota in transfers to a relatively weak candidate (probably Jerry Buttimer) to get the last seat, with few enough coming from labour (probably only 1 candidate), while FF need only 0.4 of a quota in transfers to get the second seat for McGrath, who is very strong on the ground – no dogfight unattended, monthly glossy newsletter claiming credit for every new street lamp, etc.
So if the polls are to be believed, sixteen thousand of my neighbours are prepared to give a No. 1 to the gang that brought you Seanie FitzPatrick, Patrick Neary, David Drumm and the IMF. Unvelievable, really.
I can't see FF getting 35 seats if they are on 17% in the polls. They will be wiped out in Dublin and commuterland.
Quote
Re: Election in Jan 2011!
« Reply #38 on: Today at 02:07:25 PM »
Reply with quote
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on Today at 02:00:40 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on Today at 01:55:10 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on Today at 12:35:24 PM
This is how i think it will run in Mayo. If others do it by their constituency we'll get a better view of who total number for each party
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. John O Mahoney. (Fine Gael)
4. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
You think O Mahoney will get his seat? I think he could be in for a surprise, hope he is.
As muppet said Jerry Cowley could be back in the frame.
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
4. Jerry Cowley
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
I for one dont want to see Cowley get next or near the Dail again. According to lads i know down his way, he lost a lot of support with his Shell to sea misjudgement. Another reason i dont want to see him in there is he is always at the top of the medical card earnings year in year out, which for a GP in rural Ireland makes me suspicious.
I think John will get in. He will get a lot of transfers from Enda and Ring. One man I forgot about though is Jim Higgins, if he runs O'Mahony wont get in. I doubt he will leave his cushy number in Europe though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_(D%C3%A1il_%C3%89ireann_constituency)
higgins would have to go before the fg convention so it would be him or O Mahoney, and as you say he will hardly leave europe. i have a feeling O Mahoney may struggle this time out. Michelle Mulherin (FG) may pip him this time. Kenny and Ring are shoe ins and FG should take a third seat unless cowley can rise on a labour tide. Bev is bev and if she could get elected as an independent she should manage it again. calleary could be in trouble. he is a good local TD and really has doen little wrong on a local basis but remember he did not make the quota last time when he should have breezed in, a hig profile independent in north mayo could damage him. excluding Kenny and Ring mayo will be very interesting.
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 02:45:49 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:44 PM
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
Explain that, because, I have heard that being pedalled several times, but I have no idea why that is the case.
Few reasons -
1 - We need to make 6bn in cuts anyway with the IMF/Europe demanding it and if we don't do this then our costs of borrowing will skyrocket which will cost us a fortune
2 - We will look like a laughing stock if we don't pass a budget as all parties will have to campaign on the basis of massive cuts anyway.
3 - We can do a supplementary budget or draft a new budget in Feb/March anyway to replace the current one that we put through.
No-one can come up with a valid reason not to pass it or which will save us money.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 02:45:49 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:44 PM
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
Explain that, because, I have heard that being pedalled several times, but I have no idea why that is the case.
Few reasons -
1 - We need to make 6bn in cuts anyway with the IMF/Europe demanding it and if we don't do this then our costs of borrowing will skyrocket which will cost us a fortune
2 - We will look like a laughing stock if we don't pass a budget as all parties will have to campaign on the basis of massive cuts anyway.
3 - We can do a supplementary budget or draft a new budget in Feb/March anyway to replace the current one that we put through.
No-one can come up with a valid reason not to pass it or which will save us money.
De - Fault.
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 02:57:23 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 02:45:49 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:44 PM
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
Explain that, because, I have heard that being pedalled several times, but I have no idea why that is the case.
Few reasons -
1 - We need to make 6bn in cuts anyway with the IMF/Europe demanding it and if we don't do this then our costs of borrowing will skyrocket which will cost us a fortune
2 - We will look like a laughing stock if we don't pass a budget as all parties will have to campaign on the basis of massive cuts anyway.
3 - We can do a supplementary budget or draft a new budget in Feb/March anyway to replace the current one that we put through.
No-one can come up with a valid reason not to pass it or which will save us money.
De - Fault.
Problem is if we default all money in our banks will be withdrawen and no-one will loan us a penny......this means that we will have to make cuts of 15-20bn next year alone and we will be relying on cashflow from tax to pay our day to day spending...
I warned the Greens about going into government with Fianna Fail, but I forgot to warn Fianna Fail about sleeping with the enemy, it will be the end of them and I thought it might be the end of the greens.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 12:35:24 PM
This is how i think it will run in Mayo. If others do it by their constituency we'll get a better view of who total number for each party
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. John O Mahoney. (Fine Gael)
4. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
I can't see Fine Gael winning four seats and they certainly won't take the first four.
I'm confident that Mickey will easily top the poll but the said Mickey is a maverick who concentrates on getting no.1s and refuses to consider any form of vote management. He told Johnno in no uncertain terms that if wanted votes he could go and look them himself. AS you know, Mickey isn't too concerned about the finer points of English grammar but he usually gets his message across all the same.
He ain't too fond of Enda either and I don't imagine that a high percentage of his second preferences will transfer to the man in Milebush.
It's highly likely that the pair of them will leave all others well behind and nail down the first two seats but if Enda needs 3 or 4 counts to get elected, I can't see both of the others winning seats. I think Mulherrin will fare out better than O'Mahony. A few FG activists in Swinford tell me that she's been preparing her campaign since the last election and is going all-out to prove a point as she feels the party was only using her to secure her second preferences for O'Mahony. Johnno can't depend on a bounce from his football connection this time. If anything, he stands to lose support from the last election.
I'd bet on FG taking three, with Calleary getting in on the fourth or fifth count and there's a great chance that an independent, possibly Cowley, will succeed also.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 02:45:49 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:44 PM
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
Explain that, because, I have heard that being pedalled several times, but I have no idea why that is the case.
Few reasons -
1 - We need to make 6bn in cuts anyway with the IMF/Europe demanding it and if we don't do this then our costs of borrowing will skyrocket which will cost us a fortune
2 - We will look like a laughing stock if we don't pass a budget as all parties will have to campaign on the basis of massive cuts anyway.
3 - We can do a supplementary budget or draft a new budget in Feb/March anyway to replace the current one that we put through.
No-one can come up with a valid reason not to pass it or which will save us money.
But what's the point of having a budget now, when, one assumes, it will be replaced by a supplementary budget in February?
I would prefer FF to call a halt to any budgetary decisions for a few weeks, have an election now with each party setting their budgetary proposals out and let us vote based on their proposals (presuming the feckers actually do what they say this time)
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 03:13:45 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 02:45:49 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:44 PM
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
Explain that, because, I have heard that being pedalled several times, but I have no idea why that is the case.
Few reasons -
1 - We need to make 6bn in cuts anyway with the IMF/Europe demanding it and if we don't do this then our costs of borrowing will skyrocket which will cost us a fortune
2 - We will look like a laughing stock if we don't pass a budget as all parties will have to campaign on the basis of massive cuts anyway.
3 - We can do a supplementary budget or draft a new budget in Feb/March anyway to replace the current one that we put through.
No-one can come up with a valid reason not to pass it or which will save us money.
But what's the point of having a budget now, when, one assumes, it will be replaced by a supplementary budget in February?
I would prefer FF to call a halt to any budgetary decisions for a few weeks, have an election now with each party setting their budgetary proposals out and let us vote based on their proposals (presuming the feckers actually do what they say this time)
It appears a FG-led government would let the budget stand. This is what Michael Noonan said yesterday - they would implement the four-year plan as regards deficit targets, but from Budget 2012 on the would put their own stamp on it as regards the revenue/expenditure balance.
QuoteQuote from: Peter Solan the Great on Today at 12:35:24 PM
This is how i think it will run in Mayo. If others do it by their constituency we'll get a better view of who total number for each party
1. Michael Ring. (Fine Gael)
2. Enda Kenny. (Fine Gael)
3. John O Mahoney. (Fine Gael)
4. Michelle Mulhern. (Fine Gael)
5. Dara Calleary. (Fianna FAIL)
I can't see Fine Gael winning four seats and they certainly won't take the first four.
I'm confident that Mickey will easily top the poll but the said Mickey is a maverick who concentrates on getting no.1s and refuses to consider any form of vote management. He told Johnno in no uncertain terms that if wanted votes he could go and look them himself. AS you know, Mickey isn't too concerned about the finer points of English grammar but he usually gets his message across all the same.
He ain't too fond of Enda either and I don't imagine that a high percentage of his second preferences will transfer to the man in Milebush.
It's highly likely that the pair of them will leave all others well behind and nail down the first two seats but if Enda needs 3 or 4 counts to get elected, I can't see both of the others winning seats. I think Mulherrin will fare out better than O'Mahony. A few FG activists in Swinford tell me that she's been preparing her campaign since the last election and is going all-out to prove a point as she feels the party was only using her to secure her second preferences for O'Mahony. Johnno can't depend on a bounce from his football connection this time. If anything, he stands to lose support from the last election.
I'd bet on FG taking three, with Calleary getting in on the fourth or fifth count and there's a great chance that an independent, possibly Cowley, will succeed also.
thats a fair assessment lar but what about Bev, FF are going to struggle to get 2 seats and i can see her fair better the calleary. I wonder will FF run 2 or 3 candidates. its hard to see which is the better strategy.
FF might only pull in 10% once the full awfulness of the budget and the economic collapse
enters the national consciousness.
QuoteElsewhere, gardaí have ejected a number of people from Government Buildings.
The group, made up mainly of Sinn Féin supporters, had pushed their way through the gates during a protest against the Government at lunchtime.
The protest is continuing outside the gates. Mr Ó Snodaigh accused gardaí of being heavy-handed during the protest.
Never was the quote "the lunatics taking over the asylum" more appropriate.
Over on Polictics.ie they are saying that Cowen will be heading to Aras tonight to dissolve the Dail.
A very high percentage of voters on here are from the 6 counties and will not be voting, I voted because I will fly home to vote, I have done it before and will do it again. I hate FF that much.
Maybe there should have been I will not have a vote option.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 12:40:51 PM
Any chance of adding a poll or will the nordies just ruin it voting for SF?
They ruined it ::) if they didn't we could get a fair representation of where they stood, but not now :(
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 12:15:22 PM
That means Enda will be the Chief. Up Mayo!
FFS, UP IRELANDQuote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 12:15:14 PM
Cowen will be gone by Friday.
This is what we need.
But the thought of Inda and Michael Ring in government worry me.
Take a bow Mirriam Lord for making up her own Mayo accent in that gutter-rag, his name is Enda and pronounced Enda.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 01:37:20 PM
There'll be an election before christmas. The budget won't pass. I've a funny feeling FF are co ordinating this more than they are letting on.
Of course let Fine Gael and Labour take the blame for Fianna Fail treachery. Fianna Fail are like snake and Ireland is like a crashing plane and this is how I feel about those mother f**king snakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amYzBQMT4VI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amYzBQMT4VI&feature=related)
MayoEnda Kenny - FG
Micheal Ring - FG
Michelle Mulherrin - FG
Dara Callery - FF
John O'Mahoney -FG
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 22, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Amazing how quickly we forget the very very significant role of the PDs in the current mess.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 22, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Precisely this shite that there is no alternative is a cop out. There is always an alternative to liars, cheats and scumbags. What worries me is that FF have 10% of the above poll.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 22, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Fianna FAILures always like to play the man not the ball. Enda gets attacked based on personality, personality politics is whats got us where we are. You will not meet a more affable and honest man. To be honest I have yet to meet anyone say he wasn't good craic in person, thats come from SF & FF friends I have introduced to him when they down visiting me in Castlebar or have met him elsewhere themselves.
Photographers are gathering at Phoenix park, speculation is that Cowen is on the way to ask Mary McAleese to dissolve the government this evening.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 06:13:19 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 22, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Fianna FAILures always like to play the man not the ball. Enda gets attacked based on personality, personality politics is whats got us where we are. You will not meet a more affable and honest man. To be honest I have yet to meet anyone say he wasn't good craic in person, thats come from SF & FF friends I have introduced to him when they down visiting me in Castlebar or have met him elsewhere themselves.
I know plenty of Derrycoosh people (His townland in Islandeady beside the keywest pub) that wouldnt agree with you at all.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 06:13:19 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 22, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Fianna FAILures always like to play the man not the ball. Enda gets attacked based on personality, personality politics is whats got us where we are. You will not meet a more affable and honest man. To be honest I have yet to meet anyone say he wasn't good craic in person, thats come from SF & FF friends I have introduced to him when they down visiting me in Castlebar or have met him elsewhere themselves.
I know plenty of Derrycoosh people (His townland in Islandeady beside the keywest pub) that wouldnt agree with you at all.
Yes Michael. ::)
Kenny has many weaknesses, but away from politics he is a nice guy. It is very easy to bravely post anonymously that his neighbours don't like him, but you won't find anyone from Castlebar to agree with you, even a Flynn.
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 06:32:51 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 06:13:19 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 22, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Fianna FAILures always like to play the man not the ball. Enda gets attacked based on personality, personality politics is whats got us where we are. You will not meet a more affable and honest man. To be honest I have yet to meet anyone say he wasn't good craic in person, thats come from SF & FF friends I have introduced to him when they down visiting me in Castlebar or have met him elsewhere themselves.
I know plenty of Derrycoosh people (His townland in Islandeady beside the keywest pub) that wouldnt agree with you at all.
Yes Michael. ::)
Kenny has many weaknesses, but away from politics he is a nice guy. It is very easy to bravely post anonymously that his neighbours don't like him, but you won't find anyone from Castlebar to agree with you, even a Flynn.
I'll find plenty of people in Castlebar to agree with me. He is not half the Gentlemen his father Henry Kenny was. Now he was a man of the people. I must point out that Enda Kenny is from the Castlebar side of Islandeady and not the Westport side.
Statement expected from Biffo within the next half an hour.
I'll 'with draw' (sic) nothing >:(
So much for having an opinion.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 22, 2010, 06:39:24 PM
Statement expected from Biffo within the next half an hour.
he has to go
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:01:54 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 22, 2010, 06:39:24 PM
Statement expected from Biffo within the next half an hour.
he has to go
Probably deny there is a problem until next weekend by which time we will have our ballot papers.
Comments on the radio that he isnt going to announce anything of immediate effect?
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 06:36:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 06:32:51 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on November 22, 2010, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 06:13:19 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 22, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
Would the fool who said "the thought of Enda Kenny running the country worries me" like to with draw the comment. Coming after Fianna Fail and the PDs bankrupted the country it makes them look stupid. How can Inda and Ring make things any worse.
Fianna FAILures always like to play the man not the ball. Enda gets attacked based on personality, personality politics is whats got us where we are. You will not meet a more affable and honest man. To be honest I have yet to meet anyone say he wasn't good craic in person, thats come from SF & FF friends I have introduced to him when they down visiting me in Castlebar or have met him elsewhere themselves.
I know plenty of Derrycoosh people (His townland in Islandeady beside the keywest pub) that wouldnt agree with you at all.
Yes Michael. ::)
Kenny has many weaknesses, but away from politics he is a nice guy. It is very easy to bravely post anonymously that his neighbours don't like him, but you won't find anyone from Castlebar to agree with you, even a Flynn.
I'll find plenty of people in Castlebar to agree with me. He is not half the Gentlemen his father Henry Kenny was. Now he was a man of the people. I must point out that Enda Kenny is from the Castlebar side of Islandeady and not the Westport side.
You have serious problems, could you not get a shift in the TF when you where younger? :P
RTE News now, the BASTARDS >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
what's going on!
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
Why they are undemocratic bastards.
they are not resigning. I mean how much more damage do they want to do. Claming its in the national interest to stay.
Cowan says that if the budget gets passed he'll dissolve the dail afterwards basically.
I'll let the others tell you why that's such a disgrace, because I don't see it.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
what's going on!
What the f**k did you tell me to shut up for and you not even watching this disgrace.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
what's going on!
Holding the Dáil to ransom.
Pass the budget and I might call an election.
Don't and you will not be 'acting in the National Interest'.
Political trap that the Greens are now going to be strangled with. They have to vote with FF. They should have pulled out completely or not at all.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
Why they are undemocratic b**tards.
Id love to live in your world ::)
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
what's going on!
Holding the Dáil to ransom.
Pass the budget and I might call an election.
Don't and you will not be 'acting in the National Interest'.
Political trap that the Greens are now going to be strangled with. They have to vote with FF. They should have pulled out completely or not at all.
Exactly its more Fianna Fail tricks, they are trying to come out of this looking like its everybody elses fault that we are where we are.
Pints where you even watching RTE?
Furthermore this is a 4 year budget.
He is apparently proposing they pass it and then call an election. It should be the other way round especially for a Government without a minority.
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
Why they are undemocratic b**tards.
Id love to live in your world ::)
What world is that? The one where the skulduggery of Fianna Fail for the best part of 30 years is unacceptable! Jesus you apologists make me sick >:(
I don't think they're doing that. I think the strategy long term is.
1 - Get the Dail to pass the budget.
2 - Go to the country, knowing you will get caned.
3 - Cowan to fall on his sword as the ultimate Party Man after the election.
4 - Fine Gael and Labour not be miracle workers as the next 4 years unfold.
5 - New FF leader comes in before the next election and FF recover to be the second biggest party, and possible coalition leaders again.
6 - FF recover to become the biggest party in 8 years time.
It doesn't even make sense what they're at! How can they stay on if the budge isn't passed?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
what's going on!
Holding the Dáil to ransom.
Pass the budget and I might call an election.
Don't and you will not be 'acting in the National Interest'.
Political trap that the Greens are now going to be strangled with. They have to vote with FF. They should have pulled out completely or not at all.
Exactly its more Fianna Fail tricks, they are trying to come out of this looking like its everybody elses fault that we are where we are.
Pints where you even watching RTE?
I can't see RTE where I am hence me asking here what's going on.
I told you to shut up because you're behaving like the local looney in the corner of the pub that everyone avoids!
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 22, 2010, 07:29:07 PM
I don't think they're doing that. I think the strategy long term is.
1 - Get the Dail to pass the budget.
2 - Go to the country, knowing you will get caned.
3 - Cowan to fall on his sword as the ultimate Party Man after the election.
4 - Fine Gael and Labour not be miracle workers as the next 4 years unfold.
5 - New FF leader comes in before the next election and FF recover to be the second biggest party, and possible coalition leaders again.
6 - FF recover to become the biggest party in 8 years time.
The new Government (and possibly the one after that) will be handicapped by the budget passed in line 1. If they don't vote for the budget they will be attacked as acting against the National Interest.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:29:53 PM
It doesn't even make sense what they're at! How can they stay on if the budge isn't passed?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
what's going on!
Holding the Dáil to ransom.
Pass the budget and I might call an election.
Don't and you will not be 'acting in the National Interest'.
Political trap that the Greens are now going to be strangled with. They have to vote with FF. They should have pulled out completely or not at all.
Exactly its more Fianna Fail tricks, they are trying to come out of this looking like its everybody elses fault that we are where we are.
Pints where you even watching RTE?
I can't see RTE where I am hence me asking here what's going on.
I told you to shut up because you're behaving like the local looney in the corner of the pub that everyone avoids!
I'm angry, aren't you?
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:32:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 22, 2010, 07:29:07 PM
I don't think they're doing that. I think the strategy long term is.
1 - Get the Dail to pass the budget.
2 - Go to the country, knowing you will get caned.
3 - Cowan to fall on his sword as the ultimate Party Man after the election.
4 - Fine Gael and Labour not be miracle workers as the next 4 years unfold.
5 - New FF leader comes in before the next election and FF recover to be the second biggest party, and possible coalition leaders again.
6 - FF recover to become the biggest party in 8 years time.
The new Government (and possibly the one after that) will be handicapped by the budget passed in line 1. If they don't vote for the budget they will be attacked as acting against the National Interest.
Exactly, this is not about saving Ireland, its about saving the Fianna Fail party.
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:32:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 22, 2010, 07:29:07 PM
I don't think they're doing that. I think the strategy long term is.
1 - Get the Dail to pass the budget.
2 - Go to the country, knowing you will get caned.
3 - Cowan to fall on his sword as the ultimate Party Man after the election.
4 - Fine Gael and Labour not be miracle workers as the next 4 years unfold.
5 - New FF leader comes in before the next election and FF recover to be the second biggest party, and possible coalition leaders again.
6 - FF recover to become the biggest party in 8 years time.
The new Government (and possibly the one after that) will be handicapped by the budget passed in line 1. If they don't vote for the budget they will be attacked as acting against the National Interest.
Exactly. This is a strategic gambit by FF. Vote for the budget, and we'll get out of the way so we can come back when ye have to enforce it.
Oppose it, and ye'll be seen as being obstructive, especially when ye agree with most of the measures.
I think the Greens will be slaughtered by the Indo for the rest of the week after today.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
Why they are undemocratic b**tards.
Id love to live in your world ::)
What world is that? The one where the skulduggery of Fianna Fail for the best part of 30 years is unacceptable! Jesus you apologists make me sick >:(
Ha, im no FF apologist nor am i a ranting, raving lunatic that cant seperate rabid hatred no matter how valid, from some sense of sober judgement or analysis.
You obviously dont know the laws and constitution of the country spouting stuff about undemocatic and juntas.
The budget will be touch and go. Will they be able to keep every backbench gobdaw happy as they all try desperately to retain their seats?
The Greens really fcuked up again here. They should have pulled the plug completely or just tried to lay low. Gormley went into reverse gear on the news.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:29:53 PM
It doesn't even make sense what they're at! How can they stay on if the budge isn't passed?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
this is a f**king disgrace. Bury them.
what's going on!
Holding the Dáil to ransom.
Pass the budget and I might call an election.
Don't and you will not be 'acting in the National Interest'.
Political trap that the Greens are now going to be strangled with. They have to vote with FF. They should have pulled out completely or not at all.
Exactly its more Fianna Fail tricks, they are trying to come out of this looking like its everybody elses fault that we are where we are.
Pints where you even watching RTE?
I can't see RTE where I am hence me asking here what's going on.
I told you to shut up because you're behaving like the local looney in the corner of the pub that everyone avoids!
I'm angry, aren't you?
Yes, but I'd be angrier if I thought there was someone that could run the country any better.
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:36:28 PM
I think the Greens will be slaughtered by the Indo for the rest of the week after today.
The Greens will be slaughtered anyway. They've allowed themselves to be backed into a corner now. People don't give a shite about the environment unless it can be demonstrated to make/save money for them. In a recession/depression, policies about Carbon taxes are damp squibs.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 22, 2010, 07:29:07 PM
I don't think they're doing that. I think the strategy long term is.
1 - Get the Dail to pass the budget.
2 - Go to the country, knowing you will get caned.
3 - Cowan to fall on his sword as the ultimate Party Man after the election.
4 - Fine Gael and Labour not be miracle workers as the next 4 years unfold.
5 - New FF leader comes in before the next election and FF recover to be the second biggest party, and possible coalition leaders again.
6 - FF recover to become the biggest party in 8 years time.
pass a budget they expect others to implement and then slate them from the backbenches. dont kid yourself FF are doing this anything as noble as the country. Stinks of politics
Exactly. I don't think I mentioned this would be in the national interest. If it so happens, well and good, but this is about strategic medium to long term party political planning.
I put forward a theory a couple of years ago about what FF should do in the previous election, (basically lose it on purpose) and I think I shocked a few people about how my devious mind works. If they had followed that strategy they'd nearly win the next election but their need for power consumed them.
I think they will benefit by being in opposition in tough times. People will forget they got us here, and if they make the right noises, which they are masters at, they'll be a big threat in 4 or 8 years again.
Especially if a Fine Gael Labour coalition tears itself apart.
PS I wonder how the Fine Gael front benchers who said Enda Kenny did not possess the requisite skills or knowledge to be Taoiseach are feeling now. They're lucky the Government are so screwed because that almost could lose you an election on it's own in normal times.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 22, 2010, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:36:28 PM
I think the Greens will be slaughtered by the Indo for the rest of the week after today.
The Greens will be slaughtered anyway. They've allowed themselves to be backed into a corner now. People don't give a shite about the environment unless it can be demonstrated to make/save money for them. In a recession/depression, policies about Carbon taxes are damp squibs.
the greens have committed political suicide. will go the way of the PD's. Good riddance
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:36:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
Why they are undemocratic b**tards.
Id love to live in your world ::)
What world is that? The one where the skulduggery of Fianna Fail for the best part of 30 years is unacceptable! Jesus you apologists make me sick >:(
Ha, im no FF apologist nor am i a ranting, raving lunatic that cant seperate rabid hatred no matter how valid, from some sense of sober judgement or analysis.
You obviously dont know the laws and constitution of the country spouting stuff about undemocatic and juntas.
Yes Brian I understand that Dáil Éireann is elected for 5 years, you keep telling us. Fianna Fail bases their so called democratic legitimacy on a technical majority in the Dáil, but they will not call all the bye elections. Yes I know they claim they do not have to hold these bye elections, but the courts disagree. By not holding these bye elections and using a technical majority they are acting undemocratically.
A Junta is not necessarily a Military government, despite seeing the Gardai (yes I know not the army) force a protestor to the ground so government ministers did not have to face a protestor inside their government mercs. A junta can also be a government form involving a Union, a coalition is a type of union.
Evil - "Evil is intentionally causing harm or destruction, or deliberately violating some moral code." (Yes I know there are better references than wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil)
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2010, 02:49:05 PM
I can't see FF getting 35 seats if they are on 17% in the polls. They will be wiped out in Dublin and commuterland.
If they're on 17%, then they're f*cked in more places than Dublin and commuterland.
They will end up running two or three candidates in a constituency - either because they are sitting TDs or because of geography - to share out that 17%, with the result that transfers will go astray and they'll get no seat at all. Back in 2002, FG got 22% of the vote but only 31 seats because of the same problem.
FF on 17% would probably get about 25 seats max. and it could actually be worse than that.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 22, 2010, 07:54:41 PM
I think they will benefit by being in opposition in tough times. People will forget they got us here, and if they make the right noises, which they are masters at, they'll be a big threat in 4 or 8 years again.
I don't think people will forget this that quickly. The depth of the bust is just too deep.
Once CnaG were kicked out in 1932, they didn't get back in again for another 16 years, and they've still not outpolled FF in a general election since.
QuoteEspecially if a Fine Gael Labour coalition tears itself apart.
The question might well be what replaces FF on the political landscape.
Quote from: Lone Shark on November 22, 2010, 01:15:41 PM
In Offaly I would still expect 2 FF to return, probably Cowen with Moloney. Fleming will lose out, but sadly a national vote of 20% would still translate to 35% here, and that will push two of them over the line. FG will actually struggle to hold two since Olwyn has walked, but there still is a big FG vote in her area and it has to go somewhere. I expect them to nominate someone like Nicola Hogan, and between getting a FG vote and getting a vote from North Offaly who haven't had a TD since Ger Hyland, she should get in. Charlie Flanagan safe as houses, probably on the first count.
The fifth seat is interesting. The three contenders are Brian Stanley (SF), John Leahy (Ind) and Sean O'Brien (Lab). Stanley is getting good reviews over in Laois and a lot of those people who have the view of "They're all the same" could go his way. O'Brien is the best Labour can muster, but Laois/Offaly is typical of their problem - they simply do not have a presence in the area, and one old timer county councillor and a couple of town councillors between the two counties says it all. They'll get a vote, but O'Brien doesn't have enough about him at all to get the seat in my view. If Labour can win this one, they will get well over 50 seats nationally.
I'd say myself that John Leahy would be the narrow favourite for the fifth seat right now. He's been quite prominent since his election to local council, he has good GAA connections, he's quite energetic, young and well meaning, and he'll mop up a lot of votes around Birr who won't have a good candidate.
So my guess for Laois Offaly is 2FG, 2FF, 1 Ind.
Is John Leahy definitely running LS?
Laurel.
How do you see Longford/Westmeath panning out.
Peter 'Pause' Kelly (FF) is surely safe as is, God forgive us, James Bannon. Penrose (Lab) is safe. Mammy could be under pressure but there is no way Bannon would bring in a second FG seat. Penrose may a second Labour seat (Mae Sexton will have a good transfer rate) and thereby putting Mammy out to pasture.
So - nailing colours to the mast in my former homestead.
FF 1
FG 1
Lab 2
In Mayo Ring and Kenny will cruise in, both on the first count I think. With Enda probably first. I think Mulherin will overtake O'Mahony and take the third seat. There's a seat for FF probably. Whether it'll be Flynn or Calleary I don't know. Someone mentioned an independent in north Mayo damaging Calleary. Well Michael Kilcoyne will damage Flynn in Castlebar if he runs. And he might sneak a seat. I reckon Calleary will take the fourth seat. Jerry Cowley could come in on the Labour swell which I think will be very strong. He'll sneak ahead of Flynn, O'Mahony and Kilcoyne. Sinn Fein's Gerry Murray could do well but he has been very quiet thus far so he'd have no momentum.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Laurel.
How do you see Longford/Westmeath panning out.
Peter 'Pause' Kelly (FF) is surely safe
I'd really wonder about that. I don't see anything that he's done that would save him from a general swing against FF. I don't think the conventional wisdom will hold this time round. The dam will burst, and you'll see people elected - and defeated - who
no-one was expecting.
Quoteas is, God forgive us, James Bannon. Penrose (Lab) is safe.
Yep.
QuoteMammy could be under pressure but there is no way Bannon would bring in a second FG seat. Penrose may a second Labour seat (Mae Sexton will have a good transfer rate) and thereby putting Mammy out to pasture.
So - nailing colours to the mast in my former homestead.
FF 1
FG 1
Lab 2
I expect the first two seats to go to Penrose and Bannon. The third seat will go to Sexton if she can get and stay ahead of Kelly. The last seat I expect to be between McFadden and whoever the Westmeath FF candidate is. If FF are on 17%, then
no FF seat is safe.
Quote from: Hardy on November 22, 2010, 03:20:39 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 03:13:45 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 02:45:49 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on November 22, 2010, 02:44:44 PM
The budget has to be passed for the good of the country.....worst comes to worst it can be changed in the new year with the new govt.
Explain that, because, I have heard that being pedalled several times, but I have no idea why that is the case.
Few reasons -
1 - We need to make 6bn in cuts anyway with the IMF/Europe demanding it and if we don't do this then our costs of borrowing will skyrocket which will cost us a fortune
2 - We will look like a laughing stock if we don't pass a budget as all parties will have to campaign on the basis of massive cuts anyway.
3 - We can do a supplementary budget or draft a new budget in Feb/March anyway to replace the current one that we put through.
No-one can come up with a valid reason not to pass it or which will save us money.
But what's the point of having a budget now, when, one assumes, it will be replaced by a supplementary budget in February?
I would prefer FF to call a halt to any budgetary decisions for a few weeks, have an election now with each party setting their budgetary proposals out and let us vote based on their proposals (presuming the feckers actually do what they say this time)
It appears a FG-led government would let the budget stand. This is what Michael Noonan said yesterday - they would implement the four-year plan as regards deficit targets, but from Budget 2012 on the would put their own stamp on it as regards the revenue/expenditure balance.
So their reason for taking power is what exactly??
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 22, 2010, 09:10:19 PM
In Mayo Ring and Kenny will cruise in, both on the first count I think. With Enda probably first. I think Mulherin will overtake O'Mahony and take the third seat. There's a seat for FF probably. Whether it'll be Flynn or Calleary I don't know. Someone mentioned an independent in north Mayo damaging Calleary. Well Michael Kilcoyne will damage Flynn in Castlebar if he runs. And he might sneak a seat. I reckon Calleary will take the fourth seat. Jerry Cowley could come in on the Labour swell which I think will be very strong. He'll sneak ahead of Flynn, O'Mahony and Kilcoyne. Sinn Fein's Gerry Murray could do well but he has been very quiet thus far so he'd have no momentum.
Micheal Kilcoyne, ex of Labour could do quite will in the Castlebar area, in fact he would be a strong candidate for Labour if they where still on terms. I'm sure he would be sympathetic of a government involving Labour and a vote for him may be seen as a vote for an alternative vote. Will Harry Barratt be Labour's man in Mayo again this time? I think Gerry Murray will do better than Cowley to be honest. I would put O'Mahoney, Flynn and Murray ahead of Cowley. Cowley is not popular in Mayo's biggest town Castlebar and has lost much of his North Mayo base. Kilcoyne would be an interesting one, very hard to see how well he would do, he could be a surprise package if he run.
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2010, 07:32:05 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 22, 2010, 07:29:07 PMThe new Government (and possibly the one after that) will be handicapped by the budget passed in line 1. If they don't vote for the budget they will be attacked as acting against the National Interest.
The budget is just a piece of legislation, it can be totally rescinded as the first act of the new dail if the new govt wants to, which makes the decision to stay in until this is passed utterly pointless.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:58:41 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:36:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
Why they are undemocratic b**tards.
Id love to live in your world ::)
What world is that? The one where the skulduggery of Fianna Fail for the best part of 30 years is unacceptable! Jesus you apologists make me sick >:(
Ha, im no FF apologist nor am i a ranting, raving lunatic that cant seperate rabid hatred no matter how valid, from some sense of sober judgement or analysis.
You obviously dont know the laws and constitution of the country spouting stuff about undemocatic and juntas.
Yes Brian I understand that Dáil Éireann is elected for 5 years, you keep telling us. Fianna Fail bases their so called democratic legitimacy on a technical majority in the Dáil, but they will not call all the bye elections. Yes I know they claim they do not have to hold these bye elections, but the courts disagree. By not holding these bye elections and using a technical majority they are acting undemocratically.
A Junta is not necessarily a Military government, despite seeing the Gardai (yes I know not the army) force a protestor to the ground so government ministers did not have to face a protestor inside their government mercs. A junta can also be a government form involving a Union, a coalition is a type of union.
Evil - "Evil is intentionally causing harm or destruction, or deliberately violating some moral code." (Yes I know there are better references than wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil)
Brian??!! :D Obviously you are incapable of mature debate. If you have to tarnish somebody that disagrees with your babbling rants as being a FF supporter then you have a skewed and warped view of things im afraid!
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 09:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 22, 2010, 09:10:19 PM
In Mayo Ring and Kenny will cruise in, both on the first count I think. With Enda probably first. I think Mulherin will overtake O'Mahony and take the third seat. There's a seat for FF probably. Whether it'll be Flynn or Calleary I don't know. Someone mentioned an independent in north Mayo damaging Calleary. Well Michael Kilcoyne will damage Flynn in Castlebar if he runs. And he might sneak a seat. I reckon Calleary will take the fourth seat. Jerry Cowley could come in on the Labour swell which I think will be very strong. He'll sneak ahead of Flynn, O'Mahony and Kilcoyne. Sinn Fein's Gerry Murray could do well but he has been very quiet thus far so he'd have no momentum.
Micheal Kilcoyne, ex of Labour could do quite will in the Castlebar area, in fact he would be a strong candidate for Labour if they where still on terms. I'm sure he would be sympathetic of a government involving Labour and a vote for him may be seen as a vote for an alternative vote. Will Harry Barratt be Labour's man in Mayo again this time? I think Gerry Murray will do better than Cowley to be honest. I would put O'Mahoney, Flynn and Murray ahead of Cowley. Cowley is not popular in Mayo's biggest town Castlebar and has lost much of his North Mayo base. Kilcoyne would be an interesting one, very hard to see how well he would do, he could be a surprise package if he run.
Cowley is running for Labour - that is what will be the key difference for him. Surely his siding for the Corrib protesters looks better now than it did in 2007? Murray a very capable guy but haven't heard a sound from him since the local elections. Not certain than he'll run. Maybe Therese Ruane will but it would be some performance to go from not getting into Mayo County Council (although only marginally) in 2009 to getting into the Dail less than two years later. But this is the kind of election where form and even the profile of the candidates may have little enough to do with matters. Local issues and local personalities will have very little to do with it.
Quote from: turk on November 22, 2010, 08:41:00 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on November 22, 2010, 01:15:41 PM
In Offaly I would still expect 2 FF to return, probably Cowen with Moloney. Fleming will lose out, but sadly a national vote of 20% would still translate to 35% here, and that will push two of them over the line. FG will actually struggle to hold two since Olwyn has walked, but there still is a big FG vote in her area and it has to go somewhere. I expect them to nominate someone like Nicola Hogan, and between getting a FG vote and getting a vote from North Offaly who haven't had a TD since Ger Hyland, she should get in. Charlie Flanagan safe as houses, probably on the first count.
The fifth seat is interesting. The three contenders are Brian Stanley (SF), John Leahy (Ind) and Sean O'Brien (Lab). Stanley is getting good reviews over in Laois and a lot of those people who have the view of "They're all the same" could go his way. O'Brien is the best Labour can muster, but Laois/Offaly is typical of their problem - they simply do not have a presence in the area, and one old timer county councillor and a couple of town councillors between the two counties says it all. They'll get a vote, but O'Brien doesn't have enough about him at all to get the seat in my view. If Labour can win this one, they will get well over 50 seats nationally.
I'd say myself that John Leahy would be the narrow favourite for the fifth seat right now. He's been quite prominent since his election to local council, he has good GAA connections, he's quite energetic, young and well meaning, and he'll mop up a lot of votes around Birr who won't have a good candidate.
So my guess for Laois Offaly is 2FG, 2FF, 1 Ind.
Is John Leahy definitely running LS?
I think the situation demands a poem . That fella with the wooden leg, was he FF ?
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 22, 2010, 09:10:19 PM
In Mayo Ring and Kenny will cruise in, both on the first count I think. With Enda probably first. I think Mulherin will overtake O'Mahony and take the third seat. There's a seat for FF probably. Whether it'll be Flynn or Calleary I don't know. Someone mentioned an independent in north Mayo damaging Calleary. Well Michael Kilcoyne will damage Flynn in Castlebar if he runs. And he might sneak a seat. I reckon Calleary will take the fourth seat. Jerry Cowley could come in on the Labour swell which I think will be very strong. He'll sneak ahead of Flynn, O'Mahony and Kilcoyne. Sinn Fein's Gerry Murray could do well but he has been very quiet thus far so he'd have no momentum.
I didn't realise Cowley has joined Labour; I had heard rumours alright but I didn't know that he had made the move. Labour may not have a strong presence in the county but having a national party behind him can only boost his election chances. It should mean more canvassers on the doorsteps and more cars on voting day and increased media attention. When you add in the Labour swell you mentioned, his chance of a seat has greatly increased.
With Enda being the odds on favourite to become the next Taoiseach, FG's vote should certainly increase but it will be next to impossible to take four seats out of five. You would need effective vote management for this and it is going to be a straight dogfight between Mickey and Enda for the first two seats and Johnno and Michelle for the fourth and fifth ones. No one does voting transfers like FF and Calleary should be safe enough with Bev still in contention for the fifth and final one. Stranger things have happened-in Mayo especially. Long Paddy might still have enough influence to get his daughter over the line but it's a long shot.
I can't see Enda outpolling Mickey. Last election, Enda conducted a very successful national campaign but still came in behind his chief rival.Enda was the preferred choice for Taoiseach in nationwide polls but Mickey gave him the two fingers when it came to first preferences in his home patch.
Bejaysus! The craic is going to be mighty when the campaign starts in Mayo! ;D
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 22, 2010, 10:53:50 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 22, 2010, 09:10:19 PM
In Mayo Ring and Kenny will cruise in, both on the first count I think. With Enda probably first. I think Mulherin will overtake O'Mahony and take the third seat. There's a seat for FF probably. Whether it'll be Flynn or Calleary I don't know. Someone mentioned an independent in north Mayo damaging Calleary. Well Michael Kilcoyne will damage Flynn in Castlebar if he runs. And he might sneak a seat. I reckon Calleary will take the fourth seat. Jerry Cowley could come in on the Labour swell which I think will be very strong. He'll sneak ahead of Flynn, O'Mahony and Kilcoyne. Sinn Fein's Gerry Murray could do well but he has been very quiet thus far so he'd have no momentum.
I didn't realise Cowley has joined Labour; I had heard rumours alright but I didn't know that he had made the move. Labour may not have a strong presence in the county but having a national party behind him can only boost his election chances. It should mean more canvassers on the doorsteps and more cars on voting day and increased media attention. When you add in the Labour swell you mentioned, his chance of a seat has greatly increased.
With Enda being the odds on favourite to become the next Taoiseach, FG's vote should certainly increase but it will be next to impossible to take four seats out of five. You would need effective vote management for this and it is going to be a straight dogfight between Mickey and Enda for the first two seats and Johnno and Michelle for the fourth and fifth ones. No one does voting transfers like FF and Calleary should be safe enough with Bev still in contention for the fifth and final one. Stranger things have happened-in Mayo especially. Long Paddy might still have enough influence to get his daughter over the line but it's a long shot.
I can't see Enda outpolling Mickey. Last election, Enda conducted a very successful national campaign but still came in behind his chief rival.Enda was the preferred choice for Taoiseach in nationwide polls but Mickey gave him the two fingers when it came to first preferences in his home patch.
Bejaysus! The craic is going to be mighty when the campaign starts in Mayo! ;D
Enda was elected on the first count. Michael Ring got elected on the second count with transfers from Enda. Enda topped the poll. Your thinging of 2002 when Enda got in by the skin of his teeth on what i think was the 10th count.
Cavan Monaghan
Ó Caoláin (SF) will top the poll
Brendan Smith and Margaret Conlon (FF) are probably safe
Seymour Crawford will get elected on the first count (as improbable as that sounded in the past!!)
The fifth seat is currently Rory O'Hanlon's (FF) who is the ceann comhairle, who was elected unopposed last time. He is unlikely to run.
Fine Gael most likely run Joe O'Reilly in Cavan, and he would be very likely to get elected.
Fianna Fail will probably run another candidate in Monaghan, probably Padraig McNally from Carrickmacross. The only way they would get elected is if they took Margaret Conlon's seat.
Labour will run a candidate - unlikely to get elected.
SF 1
FF 2
FG 2
FG gain from FF
Quote from: thebandit on November 22, 2010, 11:13:08 PM
Cavan Monaghan
Ó Caoláin (SF) will top the poll
Brendan Smith and Margaret Conlon (FF) are probably safe
Seymour Crawford will get elected on the first count (as improbable as that sounded in the past!!)
The fifth seat is currently Rory O'Hanlon's (FF) who is the ceann comhairle, who was elected unopposed last time. He is unlikely to run.
Fine Gael most likely run Joe O'Reilly in Cavan, and he would be very likely to get elected.
Fianna Fail will probably run another candidate in Monaghan, probably Padraig McNally from Carrickmacross. The only way they would get elected is if they took Margaret Conlon's seat.
Labour will run a candidate - unlikely to get elected.
SF 1
FF 2
FG 2
FG gain from FF
Would Ó Caoláin be able to bring in a running mate? Would there be enough transfers in Cavan/Monahan to bring another SF candidate over the line at the expence of a FF candidate?
Cowley would seem to be pretty strong now that he has a party behind him, does Bev honestly have a chance? It would be a disgrace if she made it.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
Quote from: thebandit on November 22, 2010, 11:13:08 PM
Cavan Monaghan
Ó Caoláin (SF) will top the poll
Brendan Smith and Margaret Conlon (FF) are probably safe
Seymour Crawford will get elected on the first count (as improbable as that sounded in the past!!)
The fifth seat is currently Rory O'Hanlon's (FF) who is the ceann comhairle, who was elected unopposed last time. He is unlikely to run.
Fine Gael most likely run Joe O'Reilly in Cavan, and he would be very likely to get elected.
Fianna Fail will probably run another candidate in Monaghan, probably Padraig McNally from Carrickmacross. The only way they would get elected is if they took Margaret Conlon's seat.
Labour will run a candidate - unlikely to get elected.
SF 1
FF 2
FG 2
FG gain from FF
Would Ó Caoláin be able to bring in a running mate? Would there be enough transfers in Cavan/Monahan to bring another SF candidate over the line at the expence of a FF candidate?
He possibly will have a running mate this time, either Matt Carthy (South Monaghan) or Pauline Tully-McCauley (Cavan). This would mean that Ó'Caoláin wouldn't top the poll (Crawford probably would). But I couldn't see them having enough to pull 2 over the line.
Last election in Mayo, 2007 - from www.electionsireland.org - great website for political anoraks. Can't see JOM's vote holding. And look at the first preference for the two FFs. Those figures will drop hugely. No way two of them will get in.
* Enda Kenny 14,717 20.62% 1.24 1 Made Quota 1
* Michael Ring 11,412 15.99% 0.96 2 Made Quota 2
John O'Mahony5 6,869 9.62% 0.58 8 Made Quota 3
Dara Calleary 7,225 10.12% 0.61 8 Elected 4
* Beverley Flynn 6,779 9.50% 0.57 8 Elected 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* John Carty2 5,889 8.25% 0.49 (8) Not Elected
Michelle Mulherin 5,428 7.60% 0.46 (7) Eliminated
* Jerry Cowley 3,407 4.77% 0.29 (6) Eliminated
Frank Chambers 4,345 6.09% 0.37 (5) Eliminated
Gerry Murray3 3,608 5.05% 0.30 (4) Eliminated
Harry Barrett 831 1.16% 0.07 (3) No expenses
Peter Enright 580 0.81% 0.05 (3) No expenses
Tommy Cooke 296 0.41% 0.02 (3) No expenses
Quote from: thebandit on November 22, 2010, 11:27:48 PM
He possibly will have a running mate this time, either Matt Carthy (South Monaghan) or Pauline Tully-McCauley (Cavan). This would mean that Ó'Caoláin wouldn't top the poll (Crawford probably would). But I couldn't see them having enough to pull 2 over the line.
Something of interest.
http://irishpollingreport.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/redc-nov-2010-projections/
It's obviously only for discussion but it is based on a science. It says SF could take two in C/M. It also disagrees with my view of Dublin West.
Fianna Fail shouod be wiped out in the next election, but does anyone really think it will happen? Tyey will still get 30-40 per cent depending on how well they campaign.
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 09:32:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:58:41 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:36:46 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:28:29 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on November 22, 2010, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 22, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 07:16:44 PM
RTE News now, the b**tards >:( Shame on you and shame on all of you who will vote for them, they are an Evil Undemocratic Junta.
would you ever shut up
Why they are undemocratic b**tards.
Id love to live in your world ::)
What world is that? The one where the skulduggery of Fianna Fail for the best part of 30 years is unacceptable! Jesus you apologists make me sick >:(
Ha, im no FF apologist nor am i a ranting, raving lunatic that cant seperate rabid hatred no matter how valid, from some sense of sober judgement or analysis.
You obviously dont know the laws and constitution of the country spouting stuff about undemocatic and juntas.
Yes Brian I understand that Dáil Éireann is elected for 5 years, you keep telling us. Fianna Fail bases their so called democratic legitimacy on a technical majority in the Dáil, but they will not call all the bye elections. Yes I know they claim they do not have to hold these bye elections, but the courts disagree. By not holding these bye elections and using a technical majority they are acting undemocratically.
A Junta is not necessarily a Military government, despite seeing the Gardai (yes I know not the army) force a protestor to the ground so government ministers did not have to face a protestor inside their government mercs. A junta can also be a government form involving a Union, a coalition is a type of union.
Evil - "Evil is intentionally causing harm or destruction, or deliberately violating some moral code." (Yes I know there are better references than wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil)
Brian??!! :D Obviously you are incapable of mature debate. If you have to tarnish somebody that disagrees with your babbling rants as being a FF supporter then you have a skewed and warped view of things im afraid!
Well I believe Fianna Fail to be undemocratic (see above), I believe them to be evil (see above) and in a less common usage of the word, yes indeed one part of a junta.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on November 22, 2010, 10:53:50 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on November 22, 2010, 09:10:19 PM
In Mayo Ring and Kenny will cruise in, both on the first count I think. With Enda probably first. I think Mulherin will overtake O'Mahony and take the third seat. There's a seat for FF probably. Whether it'll be Flynn or Calleary I don't know. Someone mentioned an independent in north Mayo damaging Calleary. Well Michael Kilcoyne will damage Flynn in Castlebar if he runs. And he might sneak a seat. I reckon Calleary will take the fourth seat. Jerry Cowley could come in on the Labour swell which I think will be very strong. He'll sneak ahead of Flynn, O'Mahony and Kilcoyne. Sinn Fein's Gerry Murray could do well but he has been very quiet thus far so he'd have no momentum.
I didn't realise Cowley has joined Labour; I had heard rumours alright but I didn't know that he had made the move. Labour may not have a strong presence in the county but having a national party behind him can only boost his election chances. It should mean more canvassers on the doorsteps and more cars on voting day and increased media attention. When you add in the Labour swell you mentioned, his chance of a seat has greatly increased.
With Enda being the odds on favourite to become the next Taoiseach, FG's vote should certainly increase but it will be next to impossible to take four seats out of five. You would need effective vote management for this and it is going to be a straight dogfight between Mickey and Enda for the first two seats and Johnno and Michelle for the fourth and fifth ones. No one does voting transfers like FF and Calleary should be safe enough with Bev still in contention for the fifth and final one. Stranger things have happened-in Mayo especially. Long Paddy might still have enough influence to get his daughter over the line but it's a long shot.
I can't see Enda outpolling Mickey. Last election, Enda conducted a very successful national campaign but still came in behind his chief rival.Enda was the preferred choice for Taoiseach in nationwide polls but Mickey gave him the two fingers when it came to first preferences in his home patch.
Bejaysus! The craic is going to be mighty when the campaign starts in Mayo! ;D
I forgot that about Cowley joining Labour, I would find it hard to vote for the man unless I was assured FG could pull off 4 and Labour 1. I really don't think this will happening, Callery should poll well in the Ballina area and amond diehard FF's who don't want to admit or accept any blame being attached to their traditional party of choice.
This would be very entertaining if it were not so sad and serious. The most gullible electorate in Europe, voting like Turkeys for Christmas. Unless and until you are prepared to effect real change, you would be as well remaining at Home on polling day
Quote from: turk on November 22, 2010, 08:41:00 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on November 22, 2010, 01:15:41 PM
In Offaly I would still expect 2 FF to return, probably Cowen with Moloney. Fleming will lose out, but sadly a national vote of 20% would still translate to 35% here, and that will push two of them over the line. FG will actually struggle to hold two since Olwyn has walked, but there still is a big FG vote in her area and it has to go somewhere. I expect them to nominate someone like Nicola Hogan, and between getting a FG vote and getting a vote from North Offaly who haven't had a TD since Ger Hyland, she should get in. Charlie Flanagan safe as houses, probably on the first count.
The fifth seat is interesting. The three contenders are Brian Stanley (SF), John Leahy (Ind) and Sean O'Brien (Lab). Stanley is getting good reviews over in Laois and a lot of those people who have the view of "They're all the same" could go his way. O'Brien is the best Labour can muster, but Laois/Offaly is typical of their problem - they simply do not have a presence in the area, and one old timer county councillor and a couple of town councillors between the two counties says it all. They'll get a vote, but O'Brien doesn't have enough about him at all to get the seat in my view. If Labour can win this one, they will get well over 50 seats nationally.
I'd say myself that John Leahy would be the narrow favourite for the fifth seat right now. He's been quite prominent since his election to local council, he has good GAA connections, he's quite energetic, young and well meaning, and he'll mop up a lot of votes around Birr who won't have a good candidate.
So my guess for Laois Offaly is 2FG, 2FF, 1 Ind.
Is John Leahy definitely running LS?
Seems to be the case.
http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/Leahy-declares-Dil-ambition.6404048.jp (http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/Leahy-declares-Dil-ambition.6404048.jp)
And for those who can't be bothered to click into the link, it actually states that he intends to run for the Dáil, as opposed to incorporate plenty of dill herbs into his diet. Perhaps he does that anyway, it doesn't say.
I might be overestimating his chances, but I'd definitely give him a shout. He should have plenty of uncontested territory anyway.
Quote from: Pangurban on November 23, 2010, 01:39:30 AM
This would be very entertaining if it were not so sad and serious. The most gullible electorate in Europe, voting like Turkeys for Christmas. Unless and until you are prepared to effect real change, you would be as well remaining at Home on polling day
Meaning leave FF in charge?
Quote from: thebandit on November 22, 2010, 11:13:08 PM
Cavan Monaghan
Ó Caoláin (SF) will top the poll
Brendan Smith and Margaret Conlon (FF) are probably safe
Seymour Crawford will get elected on the first count (as improbable as that sounded in the past!!)
The fifth seat is currently Rory O'Hanlon's (FF) who is the ceann comhairle, who was elected unopposed last time. He is unlikely to run.
Fine Gael most likely run Joe O'Reilly in Cavan, and he would be very likely to get elected.
Fianna Fail will probably run another candidate in Monaghan, probably Padraig McNally from Carrickmacross. The only way they would get elected is if they took Margaret Conlon's seat.
Labour will run a candidate - unlikely to get elected.
SF 1
FF 2
FG 2
FG gain from FF
how many people on Cavan Monaghan are in negative equity? That is going to go against FF.
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
Would Ó Caoláin be able to bring in a running mate? Would there be enough transfers in Cavan/Monahan to bring another SF candidate over the line at the expence of a FF candidate?
He might do. But there's no chance Ó Caoláin will allow a colleague in who could spike his guns in the future when the votes are less plentiful. First rule of Irish politics (which is part of the overall problem) - mind thy seat
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Laurel.
How do you see Longford/Westmeath panning out.
Peter 'Pause' Kelly (FF) is surely safe as is, God forgive us, James Bannon. Penrose (Lab) is safe. Mammy could be under pressure but there is no way Bannon would bring in a second FG seat. Penrose may a second Labour seat (Mae Sexton will have a good transfer rate) and thereby putting Mammy out to pasture.
So - nailing colours to the mast in my former homestead.
FF 1
FG 1
Lab 2
I was under the impression that the Mammy wasn't going to run in the next election. If she doesn't, will she then be renamed the Granny?
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 23, 2010, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Laurel.
How do you see Longford/Westmeath panning out.
Peter 'Pause' Kelly (FF) is surely safe as is, God forgive us, James Bannon. Penrose (Lab) is safe. Mammy could be under pressure but there is no way Bannon would bring in a second FG seat. Penrose may a second Labour seat (Mae Sexton will have a good transfer rate) and thereby putting Mammy out to pasture.
So - nailing colours to the mast in my former homestead.
FF 1
FG 1
Lab 2
I was under the impression that the Mammy wasn't going to run in the next election. If she doesn't, will she then be renamed the Granny?
From the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
I'd be very slow to write off d'mammy. She was on Midlands Radio there yesterday and as is always the case, she was very impressive. She never backs down from the media unlike so many others, and she also attempts to answer questions honestly, no bluff and bluster.
Of course she's still going to vote with the FF party so it's not like I'd still vote for her, but I certainly wouldn't write her off. I'd say her vote could hold better than Kelly's if push came to shove.
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 09:44:38 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
Would Ó Caoláin be able to bring in a running mate? Would there be enough transfers in Cavan/Monahan to bring another SF candidate over the line at the expence of a FF candidate?
He might do. But there's no chance Ó Caoláin will allow a colleague in who could spike his guns in the future when the votes are less plentiful. First rule of Irish politics (which is part of the overall problem) - mind thy seat
??? Think you must have the wrong party here,what evidence have you of this ever happening.
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2010, 11:56:14 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 09:44:38 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
Would Ó Caoláin be able to bring in a running mate? Would there be enough transfers in Cavan/Monahan to bring another SF candidate over the line at the expence of a FF candidate?
He might do. But there's no chance Ó Caoláin will allow a colleague in who could spike his guns in the future when the votes are less plentiful. First rule of Irish politics (which is part of the overall problem) - mind thy seat
??? Think you must have the wrong party here,what evidence have you of this ever happening.
A little knowledge of Irish politics. Look at what happened to Mary O'Rourke in 2002 when they put Donie Cassidy as her running mate in their quest for a second seat. He took hers and poor Mary ended up in the wilderness of the Seanad for five years. I suppose 'no chance' is a bit strong. After all, the SF
politburo head office could insist on another candidate. But have you any evidence that this is going to happen?
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 02:09:09 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2010, 11:56:14 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 09:44:38 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on November 22, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
Would Ó Caoláin be able to bring in a running mate? Would there be enough transfers in Cavan/Monahan to bring another SF candidate over the line at the expence of a FF candidate?
He might do. But there's no chance Ó Caoláin will allow a colleague in who could spike his guns in the future when the votes are less plentiful. First rule of Irish politics (which is part of the overall problem) - mind thy seat
??? Think you must have the wrong party here,what evidence have you of this ever happening.
A little knowledge of Irish politics. Look at what happened to Mary O'Rourke in 2002 when they put Donie Cassidy as her running mate in their quest for a second seat. He took hers and poor Mary ended up in the wilderness of the Seanad for five years. I suppose 'no chance' is a bit strong. After all, the SF politburo head office could insist on another candidate. But have you any evidence that this is going to happen?
I can assure you that if SF think they have the slightest chance of a 2nd seat they will not miss out.
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2010, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 02:09:09 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2010, 11:56:14 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 09:44:38 AM
He might do. But there's no chance Ó Caoláin will allow a colleague in who could spike his guns in the future when the votes are less plentiful. First rule of Irish politics (which is part of the overall problem) - mind thy seat
??? Think you must have the wrong party here,what evidence have you of this ever happening.
A little knowledge of Irish politics. Look at what happened to Mary O'Rourke in 2002 when they put Donie Cassidy as her running mate in their quest for a second seat. He took hers and poor Mary ended up in the wilderness of the Seanad for five years. I suppose 'no chance' is a bit strong. After all, the SF politburo head office could insist on another candidate. But have you any evidence that this is going to happen?
I can assure you that if SF think they have the slightest chance of a 2nd seat they will not miss out.
I'll bow to your superior knowledge of SF. They always claimed to be different to the rest and that would make then
very different ;)
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 02:26:32 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2010, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 02:09:09 PM
Quote from: glens abu on November 23, 2010, 11:56:14 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 23, 2010, 09:44:38 AM
He might do. But there's no chance Ó Caoláin will allow a colleague in who could spike his guns in the future when the votes are less plentiful. First rule of Irish politics (which is part of the overall problem) - mind thy seat
??? Think you must have the wrong party here,what evidence have you of this ever happening.
A little knowledge of Irish politics. Look at what happened to Mary O'Rourke in 2002 when they put Donie Cassidy as her running mate in their quest for a second seat. He took hers and poor Mary ended up in the wilderness of the Seanad for five years. I suppose 'no chance' is a bit strong. After all, the SF politburo head office could insist on another candidate. But have you any evidence that this is going to happen?
I can assure you that if SF think they have the slightest chance of a 2nd seat they will not miss out.
I'll bow to your superior knowledge of SF. They always claimed to be different to the rest and that would make then very different ;)
Cheers Deiseach,we in N.Belfast have just selected a 3rd candadate to run in the next Assembly elections to try and squeeze that seat away from the SDLP.Always looking for more seats .
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 23, 2010, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 23, 2010, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Laurel.
How do you see Longford/Westmeath panning out.
Peter 'Pause' Kelly (FF) is surely safe as is, God forgive us, James Bannon. Penrose (Lab) is safe. Mammy could be under pressure but there is no way Bannon would bring in a second FG seat. Penrose may a second Labour seat (Mae Sexton will have a good transfer rate) and thereby putting Mammy out to pasture.
So - nailing colours to the mast in my former homestead.
FF 1
FG 1
Lab 2
I was under the impression that the Mammy wasn't going to run in the next election. If she doesn't, will she then be renamed the Granny?
From the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
Ah lads, surely the Mammy's agenda is crystal clear.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 23, 2010, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 23, 2010, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Laurel.
How do you see Longford/Westmeath panning out.
Peter 'Pause' Kelly (FF) is surely safe as is, God forgive us, James Bannon. Penrose (Lab) is safe. Mammy could be under pressure but there is no way Bannon would bring in a second FG seat. Penrose may a second Labour seat (Mae Sexton will have a good transfer rate) and thereby putting Mammy out to pasture.
So - nailing colours to the mast in my former homestead.
FF 1
FG 1
Lab 2
I was under the impression that the Mammy wasn't going to run in the next election. If she doesn't, will she then be renamed the Granny?
From the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
I don't think Longford will get three TDs in. You've three big towns in the constituency and that will become a factor too, with each town getting a split and candidates looking to represent a town as well. I don't think FF will run Donie Cassidy and I am not sure if Mary O'Rourke will be up for election again. If she isn't then McFadden could take a seat for FG in Athlone, with the other FG seat being held by Bannon. Penrose will take a seat for Labour, and if Sexton polls well it will affect Kelly more and put him at risk. Having said that FF should have enough for one quota in a rural four seat constituency so one of Kelly, whoever they run in Athlone and Mullingar should get in. The Mullingar hospital will become a big election potato as well. It's a hairy one.
Quote from: Lone Shark on November 23, 2010, 03:00:55 AM
Quote from: turk on November 22, 2010, 08:41:00 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on November 22, 2010, 01:15:41 PM
In Offaly I would still expect 2 FF to return, probably Cowen with Moloney. Fleming will lose out, but sadly a national vote of 20% would still translate to 35% here, and that will push two of them over the line. FG will actually struggle to hold two since Olwyn has walked, but there still is a big FG vote in her area and it has to go somewhere. I expect them to nominate someone like Nicola Hogan, and between getting a FG vote and getting a vote from North Offaly who haven't had a TD since Ger Hyland, she should get in. Charlie Flanagan safe as houses, probably on the first count.
The fifth seat is interesting. The three contenders are Brian Stanley (SF), John Leahy (Ind) and Sean O'Brien (Lab). Stanley is getting good reviews over in Laois and a lot of those people who have the view of "They're all the same" could go his way. O'Brien is the best Labour can muster, but Laois/Offaly is typical of their problem - they simply do not have a presence in the area, and one old timer county councillor and a couple of town councillors between the two counties says it all. They'll get a vote, but O'Brien doesn't have enough about him at all to get the seat in my view. If Labour can win this one, they will get well over 50 seats nationally.
I'd say myself that John Leahy would be the narrow favourite for the fifth seat right now. He's been quite prominent since his election to local council, he has good GAA connections, he's quite energetic, young and well meaning, and he'll mop up a lot of votes around Birr who won't have a good candidate.
So my guess for Laois Offaly is 2FG, 2FF, 1 Ind.
Is John Leahy definitely running LS?
Seems to be the case.
http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/Leahy-declares-Dil-ambition.6404048.jp (http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/Leahy-declares-Dil-ambition.6404048.jp)
And for those who can't be bothered to click into the link, it actually states that he intends to run for the Dáil, as opposed to incorporate plenty of dill herbs into his diet. Perhaps he does that anyway, it doesn't say.
I might be overestimating his chances, but I'd definitely give him a shout. He should have plenty of uncontested territory anyway.
There are a lot of votes to be picked up in that area. good stuff
Quote from: muppet on November 23, 2010, 06:24:38 PMFrom the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
Ah lads, surely the Mammy's agenda is crystal clear.
[/quote]
Looking to do well by her boys? One of them is virtually unelectable and the other is an awful eejit - just realised that doesn't clarify it at all :D
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 23, 2010, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 23, 2010, 06:24:38 PMFrom the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
Ah lads, surely the Mammy's agenda is crystal clear.
Looking to do well by her boys? One of them is virtually unelectable and the other is an awful eejit - just realised that doesn't clarify it at all :D
[/quote]
Lenihan family motto: Always a Tánaiste and never a Bride.
The first step would be to become leader of FF and that would have to happen sooner rather than later as Lenny's stock is going down faster than a Cowen pint.
Quote from: muppet on November 23, 2010, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 23, 2010, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 23, 2010, 06:24:38 PMFrom the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
Ah lads, surely the Mammy's agenda is crystal clear.
Looking to do well by her boys? One of them is virtually unelectable and the other is an awful eejit - just realised that doesn't clarify it at all :D
Lenihan family motto: Always a Tánaiste and never a Bride.
The first step would be to become leader of FF and that would have to happen sooner rather than later as Lenny's stock is going down faster than a Cowen pint.
[/quote]
Right, we all know that Lenihan has health issues, extremely serious issues - I honestly do have every sympathy for him and his family and I don't want to talk about it here, but enough is enough, surely he cannot contemplate running for the dail again?
Looks like it's time to dust this thread off. Election time after 2pm today, i 'd say.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 20, 2011, 12:04:57 PM
Looks like it's time to dust this thread off. Election time after 2pm today, i 'd say.
Yeah, if they hold of any longer the defence forces will have to oragnise a military coup to force elections like tunisia ffs
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 20, 2011, 12:04:57 PM
Looks like it's time to dust this thread off. Election time after 2pm today, i 'd say.
Hopefully. This farce has gone on long enough.
11th March is the day. Double jobbing minsters till then
Quote from: turk on November 23, 2010, 06:38:52 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on November 23, 2010, 11:29:55 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 23, 2010, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on November 22, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
I was under the impression that the Mammy wasn't going to run in the next election. If she doesn't, will she then be renamed the Granny?
From the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
. The Mullingar hospital will become a big election potato as well.
people in Mullingar will have to come to terms with the fact that the money has all been spent on the AIB branch in the town and there is nothing left for the hospital. This is a message from the letter E and Jean Claude Trichet.
Quote from: Declan on January 20, 2011, 01:46:20 PM
11th March is the day. Double jobbing minsters till then
Double jobbing, make your own jokes, they can't run one portfolio on their own ffs never mind 2 :(
Quote from: muppet on November 23, 2010, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 23, 2010, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 23, 2010, 06:24:38 PMFrom the outside looking in, i think Mammy/Granny will do ok as she seems to be telling it how is and hat may stand to her.
Ah lads, surely the Mammy's agenda is crystal clear.
Looking to do well by her boys? One of them is virtually unelectable and the other is an awful eejit - just realised that doesn't clarify it at all :D
Lenihan family motto: Always a Tánaiste and never a Bride.
The first step would be to become leader of FF and that would have to happen sooner rather than later as Lenny's stock is going down faster than a Cowen pint.
[/quote]
I actually think Lenihan is chronically ill and will be giving up very soon.
Mary Coughlan, Health Minister - The Final Insult.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 02:19:53 PM
Mary Coughlan, Health Minister - The Final Insult.
And we thought making her Minister for Education was taking the piss! How wrong we were. :-\
I had to laugh at the facebook feed from breakingNews.ie on this.
'Mary Coughlan will take control of Health. Thankfully for only 7 weeks'.
I've a question, after the resignations today, the various portfolio's have been reassigned to different ministers. This isn't just specific to the 26 counties though, it's prevalent in all western democracies but how the fu*k can someone go from running a departmen on say Health to Defence, or Transport to Exchequer, or Education to Foreign affairs just like that??
How can a minister deal with say a shortage of hospital beds on a Monday at 5.00 then get up and go to work and deal with possible invasion by a hostile country at 9.00 the next morning.
They can't possibly have a clue what they are on about, which leads to a further question, assuming then these departments are run by permanent secretaries etc who 'point' the elected minister in whatever direction they go, who is actually running the department and are TD's/MP's merely elected figureheads with no real power ???
From the Examiner today , but he has still resigned something fishy about all this.
O'Keeffe to throw his hat into election ring By Paul O'Brien, Political Correspondent - Thursday, January 20, 2011
BATT O'KEEFFE intends to contest the general election, a spokesman for the Enterprise Minister said last night.
Mr O'Keeffe is one of two Fianna Fáil TDs in the three-seat constituency of Cork North West, the other being Michael Moynihan.
Mr Moynihan is running again, but questions have been raised over Mr O'Keeffe's intentions despite the fact he has previously said he will continue in politics.
The party's convention to select election candidates for the constituency was supposed to take place in Millstreet, Co Cork last Monday night, but was postponed at short notice.
That led to speculation that Mr O'Keeffe was set to announce his retirement from politics at the convention, but had the event postponed because it might have been interpreted as a body-blow to the Taoiseach ahead of Tuesday's motion of confidence in Brian Cowen's leadership.
But a spokesman for Mr O'Keeffe last night said the minister was fully intent on running again.
"It is the minister's intention to seek selection by the party as a general election candidate in Cork North West at the convention," the spokesman said.
The selection convention has been rescheduled for Friday week.
IRELAND
http://www.fiannafailsucks.com/index.html (http://www.fiannafailsucks.com/index.html)
Just a little reminder
Quote from: Banana Man on January 20, 2011, 03:20:54 PM
I've a question, after the resignations today, the various portfolio's have been reassigned to different ministers. This isn't just specific to the 26 counties though, it's prevalent in all western democracies but how the f**k can someone go from running a departmen on say Health to Defence, or Transport to Exchequer, or Education to Foreign affairs just like that??
How can a minister deal with say a shortage of hospital beds on a Monday at 5.00 then get up and go to work and deal with possible invasion by a hostile country at 9.00 the next morning.
They can't possibly have a clue what they are on about, which leads to a further question, assuming then these departments are run by permanent secretaries etc who 'point' the elected minister in whatever direction they go, who is actually running the department and are TD's/MP's merely elected figureheads with no real power ???
Its the mandarins behind the scenes that really run the departments. Civil Servants and advisors that have their hands on the levers.
Quote"Never before have I seen FF backbenchers turn off their mobiles for fear of the Taoiseach ringing then with a job offer." Pat Rabbitte
;D ;D
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 20, 2011, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 02:19:53 PM
Mary Coughlan, Health Minister - The Final Insult.
And we thought making her Minister for Education was taking the piss! How wrong we were. :-\
Education
and Science. ::)
Quote from: LaurelEye on January 20, 2011, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 20, 2011, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 02:19:53 PM
Mary Coughlan, Health Minister - The Final Insult.
And we thought making her Minister for Education was taking the piss! How wrong we were. :-\
Education and Science. ::)
It's Education and Skills, so it's good news and bad news:
Good news - we don't have a minister for science who thinks Einstein developed evolution theory.
Bad news - we don't have a department of science at all.
Quote from: Hardy on January 20, 2011, 05:17:47 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on January 20, 2011, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 20, 2011, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 02:19:53 PM
Mary Coughlan, Health Minister - The Final Insult.
And we thought making her Minister for Education was taking the piss! How wrong we were. :-\
Education and Science. ::)
It's Education and Skills, so it's good news and bad news:
Good news - we don't have a minister for science who thinks Einstein developed evolution theory.
Bad news - we don't have a department of science at all.
My bad.
I'm sure the arrival of Mrs Einstein and the change of name were purely coincidental and not a recognition that it would be taking the p:ss completely.
Michael Noonan on RTE a few mins ago "I think it's like a football manager taking off half his team and not putting on the subs."
Clowen self imploding on the 6 o'clock news. The man is completely delusional
"How dare you call it a stunt [in the Dáil]"... "I wanted to appoint new ministers to show the electorate the new talent we had for governing well into the future... [on RTE News]"... Aka an 'electoral stunt'.
Feckin eejit.
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Not at all, I can't wait to see Dev spinning in his grave with a copy of the Irish Press shoved up his hole
as Charlie runs burning with the fires of Hell through Phoenix Park.
Wait till this Mayo gombeen takes over. You haven't seen anything yet.
(http://dublinopinion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/kenny-days-later.jpg)
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 20, 2011, 09:16:06 PM
Wait till this Mayo gombeen takes over. You haven't seen anything yet.
(http://dublinopinion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/kenny-days-later.jpg)
Ha ha your letting your cover slip, your really an East Coast Fianna FAILure aren't you.
My head says it is the return of GNevin but my heart says it is a Rossie.
The Mayo lads will have some sing song out whest when Inda is elected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 20, 2011, 09:24:47 PM
The Mayo lads will have some sing song out whest when Inda is elected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE
The FF c***ts deepcover has broken, your all going to hell you know.
My God, today showed anyone interested in looking what pathetic politicans we have...
We start with FF voting to keep Cowen, 2 days later the same vote would probably be 80% to get rid of him!
Cowen and Gormless have a meeting in which neither appears to have spoken clearly nor listen to the other to such an extent that they both left the meeting thinking two completely opposite outcomes were reached!
Cowen tries to pull of his electoral stunt (which bizarely he claims is not an electoral stunt even after saying he wanted to show the new talent to the electorate) only for Gormless to break with tradition and stop him - i'm still not sure why he did this, perhaps an electoral stunt of his own
The greens are not happy but won't collapse the government because they want to pass a climate bill but because they know no one could give a flying f**k about their climate bill, they say they are hanging in their to pass a finance bill - a bill which FG have pretty much said they will pass if in government anyway!!
The rats start to jump ship at an alarming rate and say nasty things about Cowen but Big Brian is going to stay on because he is a man of integrity.
Meanwhile FG, Labour and SF can just sit back and enjoy the bonfire.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Not at all, I can't wait to see Dev spinning in his grave with a copy of the Irish Press shoved up his hole
as Charlie runs burning with the fires of Hell through Phoenix Park.
For Fine Gael's sake I really hope you have nothing to do with them especially on the canvassing end of things.
I was just thinking that Seanie. Maybe he's a FF plant, a sort of double agent. Like Ian Paisley being the IRA's best recruiter.
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
My head says it is the return of GNevin but my heart says it is a Rossie.
Embarrassed of your own Mayo man so you try to call him a Rossie ::)
Quote from: ross4life on January 20, 2011, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
My head says it is the return of GNevin but my heart says it is a Rossie.
Embarrassed of your own Mayo man so you try to call him a Rossie ::)
He hates all things Mayo, so he is hardly one of our own is he? Only the Rossies on here throw as much abuse in our direction as him but even still I think his motive is political rather than anything to do with Gaa.
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:50:43 PM
Quote from: ross4life on January 20, 2011, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
My head says it is the return of GNevin but my heart says it is a Rossie.
Embarrassed of your own Mayo man so you try to call him a Rossie ::)
He hates all things Mayo, so he is hardly one of our own is he? Only the Rossies on here throw as much abuse in our direction as him but even still I think his motive is political rather than anything to do with Gaa.
I think the lads are having a go at me, not PSTG Muppet. I love Mayo more than life itself. I think PSTG is on here to make Mayo & or Fine Gael look like flutes and is from elsewhere and has very different politics. While I am a Mayoman and if I give that negative impression that is my personal fault not anything wrong in the character of Mayo or Fine Gael. I know I am a bellend, many others here don't realise they are, or are WUM's.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:56:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:50:43 PM
Quote from: ross4life on January 20, 2011, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
My head says it is the return of GNevin but my heart says it is a Rossie.
Embarrassed of your own Mayo man so you try to call him a Rossie ::)
He hates all things Mayo, so he is hardly one of our own is he? Only the Rossies on here throw as much abuse in our direction as him but even still I think his motive is political rather than anything to do with Gaa.
I think the lads are having a go at me, not PSTG Muppet. I love Mayo more than life itself. I think PSTG is on here to make Mayo & or Fine Gael look like flutes and is from elsewhere and has very different politics. While I am a Mayoman and if I give that negative impression that is my personal fault not anything wrong in the character of Mayo or Fine Gael. I know I am a bellend, many others here don't realise they are, or are WUM's.
I wasn't talking about you, I know where you are from. Part of me thinks PSTG is here merely to run around after you but the intensity of the bile suggests he is for real and not merely a wum.
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:50:43 PM
Quote from: ross4life on January 20, 2011, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
My head says it is the return of GNevin but my heart says it is a Rossie.
Embarrassed of your own Mayo man so you try to call him a Rossie ::)
He hates all things Mayo, so he is hardly one of our own is he? Only the Rossies on here throw as much abuse in our direction as him but even still I think his motive is political rather than anything to do with Gaa.
Rossies throw as much
abuse really? banter replying to digs you guys continue to give to us.
Conor Lenihan fairly sinkng Cowen on Tonight. The waste of space AKA Dan Boyle got an awful going over. I wonder if Kenny will have the guts to go on some time between now and the election.
Vincent Browne's introduction to the show tonight is worth watching again.
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 10:00:51 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:56:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:50:43 PM
Quote from: ross4life on January 20, 2011, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 20, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
My head says it is the return of GNevin but my heart says it is a Rossie.
Embarrassed of your own Mayo man so you try to call him a Rossie ::)
He hates all things Mayo, so he is hardly one of our own is he? Only the Rossies on here throw as much abuse in our direction as him but even still I think his motive is political rather than anything to do with Gaa.
I think the lads are having a go at me, not PSTG Muppet. I love Mayo more than life itself. I think PSTG is on here to make Mayo & or Fine Gael look like flutes and is from elsewhere and has very different politics. While I am a Mayoman and if I give that negative impression that is my personal fault not anything wrong in the character of Mayo or Fine Gael. I know I am a bellend, many others here don't realise they are, or are WUM's.
I wasn't talking about you, I know where you are from. Part of me thinks PSTG is here merely to run around after you but the intensity of the bile suggests he is for real and not merely a wum.
No worries, I think the lads are missing the point, my hatred of Fianna Fail far outweighs any political or regional affiliations. I cannot understand anyone who does not want drive this evil cult into the sea. I hate these people for so so so so so so many more reasons other than my personal political views. My life was ruined by them seperate from Political affiliation or county of birth.
Those pay outs and pensions to the TDs walking away from the mess are a complete scandal to the Irish people paying for it
Classic Vincent Browne last night basically called out the Greens as liars and wafflers and then got Conor Lenihan to nearly self combust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHtOp8gBFmc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHtOp8gBFmc)
Here's what the New York Times had to say about it
Irish Prime Minister Calls for Early Elections
LONDON — Brian Cowen, the embattled Irish prime minister, on Thursday announced an earlier-than-expected general election for March 11, the latest development in a political meltdown for the governing Fianna Fail party.
Battered in the opinion polls after in the wake of last month's $114 billion bailout for Ireland's debt-burdened economy, the party is widely expected to be ousted from power, perhaps by a humiliating margin, in the March vote.
The party's prospects appeared to have been further damaged in recent days by events that have had more than a tinge of political farce. For Fianna Fail, which has held the largest bloc of seats in Parliament continuously since 1932, dominating Irish politics for most of the history of the Irish Republic, the recent infighting within the party has been one of the most embarrassing episodes in its history.
The latest dramas began last week, when Mr. Cowen announced that he would resist growing calls for his resignation, prompting six of his ministers — more than a third of his cabinet — to resign. The first to go was the foreign minister, Micheal Martin, who left on Sunday and declared himself a candidate to succeed Mr. Cowen as party leader and head of government. On Wednesday night, the Fianna Fail ministers of defense, health, justice, trade and transport also resigned, saying they did not plan to contest the forthcoming election.
Mr. Cowen responded by letting it be known that he planned to fill the cabinet vacancies with a group of younger, little-known Fianna Fail lawmakers who, he told aides, would convince voters that the party was rebuilding, and fit for another term in office. But that plan collapsed when the Green Party, junior partners in the coalition that took office after the last election in 2007, refused to support the shuffle.
That forced Mr. Cowen to announce on Thursday that he would redistribute the vacant portfolios among surviving cabinet ministers — a process in which he had already awarded himself the joint posts of prime minister and foreign minister, in succession to the popular and well-regarded Mr. Martin. By committing the government to serve on a caretaker basis until the March 11 election date, he fast-forwarded his earlier plan for a late March vote, a date he had hoped would allow more time for the beginnings of an economic recovery.
"I want us to get through the hard times and see the country is prosperous in the future," he said as he announced the election date.
The opposition leader Enda Kenny of the Fine Gael party was dismissive, both of the prime minister's strained tone of optimism and of his bungled cabinet reshuffle. "It's another fine mess we've gotten ourselves into," Mr. Kenny said.
The sequence of events appeared to have made Mr. Cowen, 51, a figure of contempt to many in his own party. "I've been in the Dail for 23 years, and I've never seen anything like this," one Fianna Fail lawmaker, Tim Kitt, told RTE, the Irish state broadcaster, referring to the Irish Parliament. "There is a total disconnect between the leadership of my party and the public out there. People are rightly very upset."
For others, Mr. Cowen, a short, heavyset man with a bruising political style who is known among his Irish detractors by the nickname Biffo, has become something of a laughingstock. Irish newspapers have had a field day with the revelation that in 2008 he played a round of golf with Sean FitzPatrick, then the chairman of the Anglo Irish Bank, only a few weeks before the Irish financial crisis broke. That was one of four Irish-owned banks the government later rescued at a cost of tens of billions of dollars to Irish taxpayers. One newspaper commentary described Mr. Cowen, in his unrelenting political troubles, as "putting from the rough."
As prime minister for most of the past three years, and finance minister for four years before that, Mr. Cowen has been widely blamed for the government's failure to curb a property boom fueled by reckless lending by Irish banks, and then for pushing a blanket government guarantee for the banks' debts, thereby sticking Irish taxpayers with the bill and threatening the country's solvency.
His reputation was not helped by denying insistently, until days before the start of negotiations on the international bailout, that a rescue was necessary. He has spent the past two months fighting for parliamentary acceptance of the bailout, and of the harsh austerity measures international lenders demanded as the price of keeping the economy afloat.
He had been expected to quit once those objectives were secured, but surprised his own supporters by digging in. On Tuesday, he won a Pyrrhic victory in a confidence vote among the party's lawmakers, with a third of those participating voting against him, and some of those who backed him, including the finance minister, Brian Lenihan, saying publicly that it might have been better if he had quit.
Recent polls have shown that Fianna Fail has support among fewer than 15 percent of voters, and that Mr. Cowen has the backing of fewer than 10 percent of those surveyed, results that have prompted Fianna Fail insiders to predict that the party could lose half or more of the 71 parliamentary seats it currently holds. The polls have pointed to the formation of a new coalition after the election between the two leading opposition parties, Labour and Fine Gael.
Unreal stuff
When you read the view of the outside world it actually makes the likes of georgia,albania or someother cinderbox of a goverment not too far away.The only difference is that our army wont get involved (which in fairness should not happen) and more importantly our people wont march or protest.
We are a shower of gombeens ourselves.
We put up with both the lisbon decision to vote again,the bank guarentee and then the IMF bailout but yet with all our giving out we hide behind our media oulets and computer screens.
No other country would have put up with it.Christ the likes of the people of france blow a fuse with the suggestion of their pension age being increased and bring parts of the country to a halt over an issue like that.
Compare that to here and we probably would read our sensationalised headlines, give out for a day or two and take it.
The political system here has dubbed us and we accept it.
We dont deserve anything better because we are too me fein.
Would any of the 15 votes cast for FF care to explain their reasoning (taking for granted that no one wants to hear from the 16th PSTG)? Beggars belief people are still going to vote for them after what they've done to this country.
I voted FF to annoy Mayogodhelpus and I'd imagine I wasn't the only one!
Quote from: stephenite on January 21, 2011, 10:36:27 AM
I voted FF to annoy Mayogodhelpus and I'd imagine I wasn't the only one!
This is becoming a problem. At this stage those 15 votes would make a big impact on their share of the national vote.
Sure you can't have any sort of accurate political poll on this site.
The Nordie's cannot resist the temptation to have their say even though they don't actually have a say, if you follee me.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgcPRoYR26nfN3SdzhRDUTqnNm4JfZI7jPHUlgRTDnZsXskf6A5g&t=1)
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/nigger-joke-reveals-ignorance-of-racism-503626.html
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Not at all, I can't wait to see Dev spinning in his grave with a copy of the Irish Press shoved up his hole
as Charlie runs burning with the fires of Hell through Phoenix Park.
For Fine Gael's sake I really hope you have nothing to do with them especially on the canvassing end of things.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2011, 09:41:33 PM
I was just thinking that Seanie. Maybe he's a FF plant, a sort of double agent. Like Ian Paisley being the IRA's best recruiter.
Lads I know ye're coming at this from a different perspective and of course deep seated rage is not an attractive trait that will bring along a lot of support, but surely ye must understand that while people keep it under their hats as best they can, for a lot of people who have seen through FF and their ways for the last five years, of course it's natural to want them to suffer. Just as the parents of a murdered child want the killer to go to jail for the crime, so it is natural that the citizens of Ireland would want to see justice done to those who brutally raped and sodomized our collective society.
A year or so ago I would have taken part in a discussion on this board on the death penalty and I remember opposing it on the grounds that if I wouldn't be willing to be the guy to flick the switch, then I shouldn't support it, but that was at a time when it would be designed for bog standard murderers and abusers. Fianna Fáil have systematically robbed thousands of wealth from everyone in this country for the enrichment of themselves and their friends, they have denied the opportunity to live and work in Ireland to a whole generation, and their administration of everything is geared towards re-election, to the point that if you're part of the clan, you get your debts written off and a cosy job on a state quango somewhere, if you're not, your vital medical treatments go undone. That's a crime, organised, orchestrated and deliberately executed, on a scale way beyond anything else in the history of the state. Ask me would I flick the switch if Bertie was in the chair? I honestly don't know.
Don't presume that because there are people out their who feel that they should all burn in hell, that they are a plant. I find it a quite natural feeling right now.
I also understand that I'm probably helping their cause by getting the backs up of traditional FF voters who are just looking for an excuse to return home to the party with their vote on March 11th, but I can't help it. These people are going to find some excuse to do so anyway,they're conditioned to do so.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 21, 2011, 10:29:19 AM
Would any of the 15 votes cast for FF care to explain their reasoning (taking for granted that no one wants to hear from the 16th PSTG)? Beggars belief people are still going to vote for them after what they've done to this country.
Well, I just can't see myself giving the effin' effers any sort of vote this time around but I sincerely hope lots of other aren't feeling as thick as I am and will vote in the country's best interests!
BTW; I am being very, very serious here.
We need a change of government fast; going by the opinion polls, it's fair to say that the vast majority of voters agree.
However, in order to have good governance we need good opposition. It won't serve anybody's interests if we get some sort of alliance, FG/Labour or whatever, that gets in with a massive majority. Now, I don't mind if SF gains more seats than FF or if 10 Jackie Healy-Rae clones make it onto the gravy train- I just want to see an administration with a workable majority, 5 or 6 would be sufficient.
I'd like to see Enda, or whoever becomes Taoiseach, getting a comfortable working majority and no more.
Back in '77, Jack Lynch was returned with a 20 seat majority for FF and he was to say some years later that it was the worst thing that could have happened for himself as Taoiseach and for the country at large. For one thing, there was open warfare in most constituencies between the various FFs who got elected as each one tried to ensure that he copper-fastened his chances of re-election at the next election and spent more time and energy sparring with his colleagues than in looking after his/her duties.
It's looking like FG and Labour will have a massive majority when the dust settles after March 11th but I hope it's nowhere near as large as Jack Lynch got in '77. Jack at least had only one party to contend with but I can see plenty of scope for conflict countrywide as FG and Labour heads start to eyeball each other and start thinking about the pecking order and ignore the affairs of state.
Point well made Lar but the new Government will need quite a bit of a majority to face down vested interests like the public service unions, not to mention the banks. If they have a smallish majority Labour won't be able to risk it. A bigger majority would allow vulnerable Government TDs to save face without the risk of bringing down the Government. A 6 TD majority would be way to small for this imho.
However, first things first. Those who got us into such a mess need to be sent a strong message from the electorate. FF, the Greens and the PDs (history always repeats itself so someone will step into Harney's considerable void) need to have an electoral meltdown.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 21, 2011, 11:05:00 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 21, 2011, 10:29:19 AM
Would any of the 15 votes cast for FF care to explain their reasoning (taking for granted that no one wants to hear from the 16th PSTG)? Beggars belief people are still going to vote for them after what they've done to this country.
Well, I just can't see myself giving the effin' effers any sort of vote this time around but I sincerely hope lots of other aren't feeling as thick as I am and will vote in the country's best interests!
BTW; I am being very, very serious here.
We need a change of government fast; going by the opinion polls, it's fair to say that the vast majority of voters agree.
However, in order to have good governance we need good opposition. It won't serve anybody's interests if we get some sort of alliance, FG/Labour or whatever, that gets in with a massive majority. Now, I don't mind if SF gains more seats than FF or if 10 Jackie Healy-Rae clones make it onto the gravy train- I just want to see an administration with a workable majority, 5 or 6 would be sufficient.
I'd like to see Enda, or whoever becomes Taoiseach, getting a comfortable working majority and no more.
Back in '77, Jack Lynch was returned with a 20 seat majority for FF and he was to say some years later that it was the worst thing that could have happened for himself as Taoiseach and for the country at large. For one thing, there was open warfare in most constituencies between the various FFs who got elected as each one tried to ensure that he copper-fastened his chances of re-election at the next election and spent more time and energy sparring with his colleagues than in looking after his/her duties.
It's looking like FG and Labour will have a massive majority when the dust settles after March 11th but I hope it's nowhere near as large as Jack Lynch got in '77. Jack at least had only one party to contend with but I can see plenty of scope for conflict countrywide as FG and Labour heads start to eyeball each other and start thinking about the pecking order and ignore the affairs of state.
Good post and well made Lar. Personally I'd like to see either Lab or FG squeeze in on their own (with the help of a few independents, 6 should be more than enough). That would leave the other as a sizable minority in the Dáil and hopefully FF will get obliterated. This is a once in a century chance to get rid of the cancer and cronyism that FF represent and send out a message to all parties (current and future) that we won't stand for that shite anymore. Jaysus if it was up to me I'd get rid of FG as well and let the "best" of both parties unite under the one right wing banner instead of being different sides of the same shitty coin. Have had it with Civil War politics...
Any chance we'll see this lad out helping the party??
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/01/20/eye-popping-bertie-on-google-street-view/ (http://www.broadsheet.ie/2011/01/20/eye-popping-bertie-on-google-street-view/)
I foresee the independents doing very well in these elections.
I can only see the disenchanted diehard Fianna Fail voters doing 1 of 3 things ( In general of course, there'll always be exceptions).
1. Stay at home
2. Vote Sinn Fein\Labour
3. Vote Independent
I can't see a large amount of FF voters who do wish to punish the party voting Fine Gael. I just don't see it happening. So I also think only a small number will take the plunge and vote Sinn Fein. I see a larger amount voting Labour, but not a huge amount as Labour's penchant for taxation will turn off traditional FF voters.
So I see independent candidates, especially those from the FF flock that proclaim themselves disappointed with the party, will clean up on local issues and being the safe 'punishment' option.
For what it's worth by the way, I think I would nearly prefer a Fine Gael overall majority. I don't think Fine Gael and Labour will be a marriage that can last beyond 1 term at most, especially when the dust settles on the current political debacle.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2011, 11:56:34 AM
For what it's worth by the way, I think I would nearly prefer a Fine Gael overall majority. I don't think Fine Gael and Labour will be a marriage that can last beyond 1 term at most, especially when the dust settles on the current political debacle.
At a minimum we really need the next government to be able to last for a full term.
One of the reasons we stayed in the rut in the 1980s was because of the instability caused by too many elections. It started with the fall of Haughey's government. Garrett the Good took over to discover that the Dept of Finance had only 2 weeks wages left for the public sector. That should have condemned Fianna Fail to a decade in the doldrums, but it didn't and they came out of the 1980s still in power.
Will we learn the lesson? Probably not.
I don't think we should be taking it for granted that there will be a FG/Labour coalition. The way the numbers are stacking up, FG may be able to form a government with the support of independents, or God help us, the Greens. Sure why would they form a coalition with Labour giving away numerous senior ministerial posts in the process for a majority of 25 when 5 would do just as well?
Quote from: Ulick on January 21, 2011, 12:24:49 PM
I don't think we should be taking it for granted that there will be a FG/Labour coalition. The way the numbers are stacking up, FG may be able to form a government with the support of independents, or God help us, the Greens. Sure why would they form a coalition with Labour giving away numerous senior ministerial posts in the process for a majority of 25 when 5 would do just as well?
Not having a go at you Ulick, for that is exactly what the priority will be, but surely for once the state of crisis in the State might take precedence?
Quote from: muppet on January 21, 2011, 12:27:42 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 21, 2011, 12:24:49 PM
I don't think we should be taking it for granted that there will be a FG/Labour coalition. The way the numbers are stacking up, FG may be able to form a government with the support of independents, or God help us, the Greens. Sure why would they form a coalition with Labour giving away numerous senior ministerial posts in the process for a majority of 25 when 5 would do just as well?
Not having a go at you Ulick, for that is exactly what the priority will be, but surely for once the state of crisis in the State might take precedence?
You are having a laugh muppet, arn't you? If FG get a clear majority it will be a case of blame FF for the first 6 months until the dust settles and then the reality of Government will hit them smack bang in the middle of the forehead and they will start floundering and in fighting. Come their first budget they will be getting it consistently from the new FF leader Miceal Martin, that they promised a lot and have offered nothing. Kenny's leadership will come under more scrutiny and the internal vultures will start circling and as they might just have a slight majority you will see there will be another election in 2 years. Only guessing here like!
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 21, 2011, 10:58:24 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Not at all, I can't wait to see Dev spinning in his grave with a copy of the Irish Press shoved up his hole
as Charlie runs burning with the fires of Hell through Phoenix Park.
For Fine Gael's sake I really hope you have nothing to do with them especially on the canvassing end of things.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2011, 09:41:33 PM
I was just thinking that Seanie. Maybe he's a FF plant, a sort of double agent. Like Ian Paisley being the IRA's best recruiter.
Lads I know ye're coming at this from a different perspective and of course deep seated rage is not an attractive trait that will bring along a lot of support, but surely ye must understand that while people keep it under their hats as best they can, for a lot of people who have seen through FF and their ways for the last five years, of course it's natural to want them to suffer. Just as the parents of a murdered child want the killer to go to jail for the crime, so it is natural that the citizens of Ireland would want to see justice done to those who brutally raped and sodomized our collective society.
A year or so ago I would have taken part in a discussion on this board on the death penalty and I remember opposing it on the grounds that if I wouldn't be willing to be the guy to flick the switch, then I shouldn't support it, but that was at a time when it would be designed for bog standard murderers and abusers. Fianna Fáil have systematically robbed thousands of wealth from everyone in this country for the enrichment of themselves and their friends, they have denied the opportunity to live and work in Ireland to a whole generation, and their administration of everything is geared towards re-election, to the point that if you're part of the clan, you get your debts written off and a cosy job on a state quango somewhere, if you're not, your vital medical treatments go undone. That's a crime, organised, orchestrated and deliberately executed, on a scale way beyond anything else in the history of the state. Ask me would I flick the switch if Bertie was in the chair? I honestly don't know.
Don't presume that because there are people out their who feel that they should all burn in hell, that they are a plant. I find it a quite natural feeling right now.
I also understand that I'm probably helping their cause by getting the backs up of traditional FF voters who are just looking for an excuse to return home to the party with their vote on March 11th, but I can't help it. These people are going to find some excuse to do so anyway,they're conditioned to do so.
No Lone Shark, in this case I'd strongly disagree with you. Its not about perspective. The comments were way over the top, completely unnecessary and unhelpful and that's from someone who is raging with FF myself.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 12:37:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 21, 2011, 12:27:42 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 21, 2011, 12:24:49 PM
I don't think we should be taking it for granted that there will be a FG/Labour coalition. The way the numbers are stacking up, FG may be able to form a government with the support of independents, or God help us, the Greens. Sure why would they form a coalition with Labour giving away numerous senior ministerial posts in the process for a majority of 25 when 5 would do just as well?
Not having a go at you Ulick, for that is exactly what the priority will be, but surely for once the state of crisis in the State might take precedence?
You are having a laugh muppet, arn't you? If FG get a clear majority it will be a case of blame FF for the first 6 months until the dust settles and then the reality of Government will hit them smack bang in the middle of the forehead and they will start floundering and in fighting. Come their first budget they will be getting it consistently from the new FF leader Miceal Martin, that they promised a lot and have offered nothing. Kenny's leadership will come under more scrutiny and the internal vultures will start circling and as they might just have a slight majority you will see there will be another election in 2 years. Only guessing here like!
And Wham another lost decade like the 1980s will slide by.
As I said, we never learn.
I have an interesting quandary - do I vote for:
Jim Higgins - space cadet
Brian Lenihan - party to the madness
Joan Burtan - melted welly head
Leo Varadkar - self congratulatory lilttle f***
Some random sc**bag that Sinn Fein Give us in West Dublin. (and they do before all you Sinners get excited)
I always vote, but this time I'm not so sure.
Quote from: muppet on January 21, 2011, 12:56:18 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 12:37:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 21, 2011, 12:27:42 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 21, 2011, 12:24:49 PM
I don't think we should be taking it for granted that there will be a FG/Labour coalition. The way the numbers are stacking up, FG may be able to form a government with the support of independents, or God help us, the Greens. Sure why would they form a coalition with Labour giving away numerous senior ministerial posts in the process for a majority of 25 when 5 would do just as well?
Not having a go at you Ulick, for that is exactly what the priority will be, but surely for once the state of crisis in the State might take precedence?
You are having a laugh muppet, arn't you? If FG get a clear majority it will be a case of blame FF for the first 6 months until the dust settles and then the reality of Government will hit them smack bang in the middle of the forehead and they will start floundering and in fighting. Come their first budget they will be getting it consistently from the new FF leader Miceal Martin, that they promised a lot and have offered nothing. Kenny's leadership will come under more scrutiny and the internal vultures will start circling and as they might just have a slight majority you will see there will be another election in 2 years. Only guessing here like!
And Wham another lost decade like the 1980s will slide by.
As I said, we never learn.
Call it good, call it bad, call it anything you want to baby but that is what I see happening and I don't see a real alternative from FG. A friend of mine, who's son in law is French told me an interesting story his morning. This man is very learned and he said he was speaking to his son in law about the situation here and the son in law, who has studied French history, said that they have had 5 "revolutions" until they got the right Republic. Now France is not ideal but it raises the interesting point, is now the right time for the next "revolution" to create the next phase of democratic evolution in Ireland. the civil war politics have gone, the country is in a financial mess and there seems no real future. Time to have a clean slate and build again. The people are resourceful and can adapt maybe it is a time to run the Monty Brewster campaign and see how the politicians react???
Quote from: muppet on January 21, 2011, 12:27:42 PM
surely for once the state of crisis in the State might take precedence?
Not a chance, especially not with FG who have been waiting 15 years to get back on the gravy-train. Bunch of self-serving gombeens every bit as bad as FF.
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
Quote from: liihb on January 21, 2011, 01:08:02 PM
Some random sc**bag that Sinn Fein Give us in West Dublin. (and they do before all you Sinners get excited)
Doesn't sound much like a sc**bag. In fact it looks like he has a very worthy background.
http://dublinwestsinnfein.wordpress.com/ (http://dublinwestsinnfein.wordpress.com/)
Biography:
Paul Donnelly is Sinn Féin's public representative in Dublin 15 and is currently Chairperson of Sinn Féin in Dublin. He is married to Angela and they have four children. Paul has been living in Clonsilla for over 15 years now. He is currently employed as a Project Worker in Dublin 17 with the School Completion Programme in Coolock. Paul also works in Bonnybrook Youthreach, which is a second chance educational centre for young people.
His involvement with Sinn Féin can be traced back many years to election campaigns in the North Inner City where he was born. Paul joined Sinn Féin in Blanchardstown in 1995. He became the party's public representative in the area in 1996 and has stood in both local and general elections at various stages. He polled 1,517 first preferences in the 2009 local elections for the Mulhuddart ward.
Paul is extremely active in the community having served as a community representative in numerous projects. He is currently Chairperson of the Mountview/Blakestown Community Drugs Team. Paul has been involved in this project since its inception in 1996. He was also a founding member of the Blanchardstown Local Drugs Task Force and the Blakestown Mountview Youth Initiative. Paul is also a community representative in the Safer Blanchardstown Forum, which is a community policing project that tackles crime and anti social behaviour for significant parts of Clonsilla, Hartstown, Huntstown, Corduff and Mulhuddart.
An ardent Dublin GAA supporter, he is currently involved with St. Peregrines GAA club as a juvenile mentor.
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
Fair enough Ulick, I'll reserve judgement on Paul Donnelly until I hear a bit about him, I hadn't seen who the candidate was.
Last couple genuinely looked like lads that would be looking for the row outside a boozer.
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
Right, then no point having a poll then. You know whos gonna get what votes.
Fair play old wise one.
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
Are you sure?
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/14980 (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/14980)
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
Right, then no point having a poll then. You know whos gonna get what votes.
Fair play old wise one.
I never said i knew who going to get what votes ::)
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
thats funny Tommy, you're from one of the 3 Ulster counties not under foreign rule therefore i can take it Donegal people can refer to the 6 counties as nordies also (As you have done) and therefore they can be counted as a 'non- nordie' area, in your eyes were at the last election SF got 40% of the vote which is higher than the 34% in the above poll you refer to ::)
Quote from: liihb on January 21, 2011, 01:30:41 PM
Fair enough Ulick, I'll reserve judgement on Paul Donnelly until I hear a bit about him, I hadn't seen who the candidate was.
Last couple genuinely looked like lads that would be looking for the row outside a boozer.
thought your comment if you were half serious was a bit ott.
while I dont rate her that highly, mary lou is hardly a 'sc**bag' - and she was running in our constituency a few times...
couldnt vote for lenihan. protest vote against FF.
Personally I'd like to vote labour - but joan brutal is dreadful.
I dont mind leo varadkar and think hes a decent bloke but comes across as a real tw*t on telly.
I'd vote for leo apart from I couldnt countenence having put that useless fool inda kenny in as taiseach.
Higgins is mad but I'd consider him
I'd consider SF's Donnelly also
its who is the least useless or offensive that I'll prob vote for...
I'd expect inda to get in, if he is smart - along with labour so he can blame them like the PD's and greens with FF - but without labour this will last one term, the country will get no better and far superior ff candidates will arise (or a new political party altogether) and win the following election.
The country will 'coast' for the next 4 or so years with exports and existing business keeping the ship afloat with jobs and money.
If FG/Lab can bring down the IMF interest rate then that will be as good a job as they can do for us.
Unless they dismantle the civil service, the banks problem and reduce the amount of TD/s - plus suspend the senad for 5 years and save the slush money.
That would be full marks for them then !
Quote from: Banana Man on January 21, 2011, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
Yeah but the nordies that are lifting the dole in donegal have votes there aswell.
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
thats funny Tommy, you're from one of the 3 Ulster counties not under foreign rule therefore i can take it Donegal people can refer to the 6 counties as nordies also (As you have done) and therefore they can be counted as a 'non- nordie' area, in your eyes were at the last election SF got 40% of the vote which is higher than the 34% in the above poll you refer to ::)
Stop talking shit tommy you stupid cavan ****.
Quote from: Iolann Fionn on January 21, 2011, 02:02:56 PM
Stop talking shit tommy you stupid cavan ****.
Welcome to the GaaBoard.
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:58:06 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on January 21, 2011, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
Yeah but the nordies that are lifting the dole in donegal have votes there aswell.
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
thats funny Tommy, you're from one of the 3 Ulster counties not under foreign rule therefore i can take it Donegal people can refer to the 6 counties as nordies also (As you have done) and therefore they can be counted as a 'non- nordie' area, in your eyes were at the last election SF got 40% of the vote which is higher than the 34% in the above poll you refer to ::)
That has to be one of the wildest statemens/accusations i have heard in a long time on here, and that includes the ramblings of Evil Genius, so it takes some beating. Tommy, go home and lie in a dark room son.
Quote from: Banana Man on January 21, 2011, 02:08:23 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:58:06 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on January 21, 2011, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on January 21, 2011, 01:23:01 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
how can you tell who voted for who and where they come from?
Yeah but the nordies that are lifting the dole in donegal have votes there aswell.
No where else would they get a such a high number of votes.
thats funny Tommy, you're from one of the 3 Ulster counties not under foreign rule therefore i can take it Donegal people can refer to the 6 counties as nordies also (As you have done) and therefore they can be counted as a 'non- nordie' area, in your eyes were at the last election SF got 40% of the vote which is higher than the 34% in the above poll you refer to ::)
That has to be one of the wildest statemens/accusations i have heard in a long time on here, and that includes the ramblings of Evil Genius, so it takes some beating. Tommy, go home and lie in a dark room son.
On my way :D
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Iolann Fionn on January 21, 2011, 02:02:56 PM
Stop talking shit tommy you stupid cavan ****.
Welcome to the GaaBoard.
71 posts in and you make yourself the concierge!
Quote from: ludermor on January 21, 2011, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Iolann Fionn on January 21, 2011, 02:02:56 PM
Stop talking shit tommy you stupid cavan ****.
Welcome to the GaaBoard.
71 posts in and you make yourself the concierge!
He is that well mannered someone had to welcome him :P
Ah lads, this is about the election.
Is there a list of candidates yet? It'd be interesting to do a GAA Board poll on the constituencies and see how close we get.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2011, 02:27:43 PM
Is there a list of candidates yet? It'd be interesting to do a GAA Board poll on the constituencies and see how close we get.
Will Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin still be leader in the Dail if Gerry Adams is elected? Would miss his contributions during Leader's question time.
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
The 26 counties repeatedly voted FF into power so you might want to come down from the high horse on that one there Tommy! Even if your claim was true, then maybe you could learn a thing or two from the "nordies".
N.B. F**k I hate that word "nordies". Lads hows about no more referrences to "nordies" and "free staters" in the spirit of Irishness and anti-partitionism?
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 21, 2011, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
The 26 counties repeatedly voted FF into power so you might want to come down from the high horse on that one there Tommy! Even if your claim was true, then maybe you could learn a thing or two from the "nordies".
N.B. F**k I hate that word "nordies". Lads hows about no more referrences to "nordies" and "free staters" in the spirit of Irishness and anti-partitionism?
Is it still ok to call them Mexicans or Gringos?
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 21, 2011, 12:43:13 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 21, 2011, 10:58:24 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Not at all, I can't wait to see Dev spinning in his grave with a copy of the Irish Press shoved up his hole
as Charlie runs burning with the fires of Hell through Phoenix Park.
For Fine Gael's sake I really hope you have nothing to do with them especially on the canvassing end of things.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2011, 09:41:33 PM
I was just thinking that Seanie. Maybe he's a FF plant, a sort of double agent. Like Ian Paisley being the IRA's best recruiter.
Lads I know ye're coming at this from a different perspective and of course deep seated rage is not an attractive trait that will bring along a lot of support, but surely ye must understand that while people keep it under their hats as best they can, for a lot of people who have seen through FF and their ways for the last five years, of course it's natural to want them to suffer. Just as the parents of a murdered child want the killer to go to jail for the crime, so it is natural that the citizens of Ireland would want to see justice done to those who brutally raped and sodomized our collective society.
A year or so ago I would have taken part in a discussion on this board on the death penalty and I remember opposing it on the grounds that if I wouldn't be willing to be the guy to flick the switch, then I shouldn't support it, but that was at a time when it would be designed for bog standard murderers and abusers. Fianna Fáil have systematically robbed thousands of wealth from everyone in this country for the enrichment of themselves and their friends, they have denied the opportunity to live and work in Ireland to a whole generation, and their administration of everything is geared towards re-election, to the point that if you're part of the clan, you get your debts written off and a cosy job on a state quango somewhere, if you're not, your vital medical treatments go undone. That's a crime, organised, orchestrated and deliberately executed, on a scale way beyond anything else in the history of the state. Ask me would I flick the switch if Bertie was in the chair? I honestly don't know.
Don't presume that because there are people out their who feel that they should all burn in hell, that they are a plant. I find it a quite natural feeling right now.
I also understand that I'm probably helping their cause by getting the backs up of traditional FF voters who are just looking for an excuse to return home to the party with their vote on March 11th, but I can't help it. These people are going to find some excuse to do so anyway,they're conditioned to do so.
No Lone Shark, in this case I'd strongly disagree with you. Its not about perspective. The comments were way over the top, completely unnecessary and unhelpful and that's from someone who is raging with FF myself.
I don't know if we disagree that much at all. Mayogodhelpus is over the the top and unhelpful, just as I am. I don't want to be, but I can't help it - I'm quivering with rage at the way we've been looted and pillaged like a tin pot African statelet.
That's not the point though - you said this kind of rage wouldn't help Fine Gael, while funnily enough I think it would, if controlled. FG and Labour played nicey-nicey for too long, but for all the lauding of Richard Bruton, Michael Noonan has caught the zeitgeist so much more since he came in. Pearse Doherty has done so even more and I would argue his genuine anger as opposed to calm disagreement has been responsible for a real boost to SF's numbers.
I'm not saying it would work for everyone, but I actually think canvassers who were one step short of rounding up a mob would actually win more votes, particularly from people who have fallen for FF's spin and think "they're all the same". They're not all the same if one side wants the other destroyed.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2011, 11:56:34 AM
For what it's worth by the way, I think I would nearly prefer a Fine Gael overall majority. I don't think Fine Gael and Labour will be a marriage that can last beyond 1 term at most, especially when the dust settles on the current political debacle.
Agree completely - FG gets to be government, labour the opposition and FF become irrelevant from now on. It's the best thing that could happen to the country.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 12:37:37 PM
If FG get a clear majority it will be a case of blame FF for the first 6 months until the dust settles and then the reality of Government will hit them smack bang in the middle of the forehead and they will start floundering and in fighting. Come their first budget they will be getting it consistently from the new FF leader Miceal Martin, that they promised a lot and have offered nothing. Kenny's leadership will come under more scrutiny and the internal vultures will start circling and as they might just have a slight majority you will see there will be another election in 2 years. Only guessing here like!
This is nothing other than wild conjecture, based on nothing at all. Any new government would be entitled to blame FF for the next 5 years and they'd be dead right - but that's not the point. Historically FG in government have always been good for the country and there is no reason why now would be any different. I can't imagine they'll have promised too much either, since everyone knows that any party promising the earth will be lying.
Tommy, how many votes did O Caolain get in the last 2 elections, well over 10k if memory serves me, making him one of the highest in Ireland.
When Kieran Doherty got elected to the dail in 1981 most of his votes were actually cast in Cavan. So if Donegal are "nordies" that vote SF, what does that make us Cavan folk. Think before you type lad.
The thing is Lone Shark, the circumstances that FG now face are much different than they ever have and I simply don't think they have the quality or leadership to take them through it. There needs to be basically a 2 party system created but I do not see FG as the obvious candidates against Labour. As I said in my further post I think there needs to be a new "revolution", albeit it a social/political one. Mindsets need to change and the reality of where the country is needs to be seen. Let's face it this is the week that Enda Kenny could really have made massive political gains, and Eamon Gilmore but they have been fairly quiet. I know that FF and Cowen in particular have hung themselves but a few sharp blows to finish the job off would have been good. Either I have missed something, and I may have, but I haven't heard any real final blows being struck.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 21, 2011, 03:33:17 PM
Tommy, how many votes did O Caolain get in the last 2 elections, well over 10k if memory serves me, making him one of the highest in Ireland.
When Kieran Doherty got elected to the dail in 1981 most of his votes were actually cast in Cavan. So if Donegal are "nordies" that vote SF, what does that make us Cavan folk. Think before you type lad.
:D Settle lad let the election talk continue.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 03:38:43 PM
The thing is Lone Shark, the circumstances that FG now face are much different than they ever have and I simply don't think they have the quality or leadership to take them through it. There needs to be basically a 2 party system created but I do not see FG as the obvious candidates against Labour. As I said in my further post I think there needs to be a new "revolution", albeit it a social/political one. Mindsets need to change and the reality of where the country is needs to be seen. Let's face it this is the week that Enda Kenny could really have made massive political gains, and Eamon Gilmore but they have been fairly quiet. I know that FF and Cowen in particular have hung themselves but a few sharp blows to finish the job off would have been good. Either I have missed something, and I may have, but I haven't heard any real final blows being struck.
I don't know that attacking the FF party this week would have been well received, I'd say they were as well off keeping their heads down and staying out of trouble. You have to remember that FF is polling at 14%, but not long ago there was a "floor" of 30% through which they could not fall. That means there is at least 16% of the electorate whose brain knows that voting FF is wrong, but they're just waiting for an excuse to justify acting on their conditioned instinct. When FF are digging their own hole, joining in could very easily backfire.
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 21, 2011, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
The 26 counties repeatedly voted FF into power so you might want to come down from the high horse on that one there Tommy! Even if your claim was true, then maybe you could learn a thing or two from the "nordies".
Yes, because we really have the whole 'effective politics' thing working up here. :D
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 21, 2011, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 03:38:43 PM
The thing is Lone Shark, the circumstances that FG now face are much different than they ever have and I simply don't think they have the quality or leadership to take them through it. There needs to be basically a 2 party system created but I do not see FG as the obvious candidates against Labour. As I said in my further post I think there needs to be a new "revolution", albeit it a social/political one. Mindsets need to change and the reality of where the country is needs to be seen. Let's face it this is the week that Enda Kenny could really have made massive political gains, and Eamon Gilmore but they have been fairly quiet. I know that FF and Cowen in particular have hung themselves but a few sharp blows to finish the job off would have been good. Either I have missed something, and I may have, but I haven't heard any real final blows being struck.
I don't know that attacking the FF party this week would have been well received, I'd say they were as well off keeping their heads down and staying out of trouble. You have to remember that FF is polling at 14%, but not long ago there was a "floor" of 30% through which they could not fall. That means there is at least 16% of the electorate whose brain knows that voting FF is wrong, but they're just waiting for an excuse to justify acting on their conditioned instinct. When FF are digging their own hole, joining in could very easily backfire.
i know what you are saying but I think there was a real chance to finish FF off completely and I think that both Labour and FG missed a great opportunity.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 21, 2011, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on January 21, 2011, 01:19:06 PM
That Poll is a waste of time with all the nordies voting SF.
The 26 counties repeatedly voted FF into power so you might want to come down from the high horse on that one there Tommy! Even if your claim was true, then maybe you could learn a thing or two from the "nordies".
N.B. F**k I hate that word "nordies". Lads hows about no more referrences to "nordies" and "free staters" in the spirit of Irishness and anti-partitionism?
Is it still ok to call them Mexicans or Gringos?
Fundamental flaw there - they can't (by definition) be both.
I'm down with Mexicans though.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 04:10:29 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 21, 2011, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2011, 03:38:43 PM
The thing is Lone Shark, the circumstances that FG now face are much different than they ever have and I simply don't think they have the quality or leadership to take them through it. There needs to be basically a 2 party system created but I do not see FG as the obvious candidates against Labour. As I said in my further post I think there needs to be a new "revolution", albeit it a social/political one. Mindsets need to change and the reality of where the country is needs to be seen. Let's face it this is the week that Enda Kenny could really have made massive political gains, and Eamon Gilmore but they have been fairly quiet. I know that FF and Cowen in particular have hung themselves but a few sharp blows to finish the job off would have been good. Either I have missed something, and I may have, but I haven't heard any real final blows being struck.
I don't know that attacking the FF party this week would have been well received, I'd say they were as well off keeping their heads down and staying out of trouble. You have to remember that FF is polling at 14%, but not long ago there was a "floor" of 30% through which they could not fall. That means there is at least 16% of the electorate whose brain knows that voting FF is wrong, but they're just waiting for an excuse to justify acting on their conditioned instinct. When FF are digging their own hole, joining in could very easily backfire.
i know what you are saying but I think there was a real chance to finish FF off completely and I think that both Labour and FG missed a great opportunity.
Timing is everything BC. Wait til the 3/4 weeks before the election, when the offensive will be fresh in the minds of voters.
This is only the early stages of a prolonged collapse (mortgage crisis, mass public sector cuts/redundancies, Eurozone default?) there will be many, many opportunities to cremate FF. I mean, can you see anything on the horizon that will grant them significant reprieve? Not for the next decade I don't!
Honestly I think electoral performance will be the least of a FF ministers worries in the next few years. They will find it difficult showing their faces in public and I think this ends with physical attacks.
Stolen from FaceBook:
6 Green Bottlers sitting in d Dail,
6 Green Bottlers sitting in d Dail,
N if 1 Green bottler shud grow a pair of balls
There'd be no more Biffo n more Fianna Fail!!!
Oh the embarrassment of these Castlebar simpletons. Imagine one of them is going to be Leader of the country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5gcx5OUack&feature=related
The best thing to come out of this election would be the merging of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail or, more likely, the hammering of FF so that there is only one centre-right party. Ideally that would mean a FG overall majority and then a strong performance from the left wing (Labour, SF) so that there is the politic situation in Ireland that we have a pretty well defined left v right alternative in elections in the future instead of the relic of the civil war - FF or FG who are two sides of the same coin.
Someone mentioned the five French Republics there. France had a very different history to us to account for all of those variations but what they have now is a centre-right party and a socialist alternative, with a small number then going for the far right of Le Pen. I hope Ireland don't have a demand for a Le Pen type figure but electoral choices based on ideologies and not personalities shouldn't be too much to ask for, should it?
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on January 21, 2011, 06:14:33 PM
The best thing to come out of this election would be the merging of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail or, more likely, the hammering of FF so that there is only one centre-right party. Ideally that would mean a FG overall majority and then a strong performance from the left wing (Labour, SF) so that there is the politic situation in Ireland that we have a pretty well defined left v right alternative in elections in the future instead of the relic of the civil war - FF or FG who are two sides of the same coin.
Someone mentioned the five French Republics there. France had a very different history to us to account for all of those variations but what they have now is a centre-right party and a socialist alternative, with a small number then going for the far right of Le Pen. I hope Ireland don't have a demand for a Le Pen type figure but electoral choices based on ideologies and not personalities shouldn't be too much to ask for, should it?
Fianna Fail isn't a pure centre-right party. It is a populist party who does what it can to get re-elected without the burden of ideology. That is why it is successful and why it will always end in tears.
Look at the last decade. Higher and higher public spending on the back of lower and lower taxes. It is not just the banks that gave us the reputation of being a financial basket case.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 21, 2011, 05:54:05 PM
Oh the embarrassment of these Castlebar simpletons. Imagine one of them is going to be Leader of the country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5gcx5OUack&feature=related
Cringeworthy stuff of the highest order as I said at the time, that video.
Quote from: muppet on January 21, 2011, 06:21:37 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on January 21, 2011, 06:14:33 PM
The best thing to come out of this election would be the merging of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail or, more likely, the hammering of FF so that there is only one centre-right party. Ideally that would mean a FG overall majority and then a strong performance from the left wing (Labour, SF) so that there is the politic situation in Ireland that we have a pretty well defined left v right alternative in elections in the future instead of the relic of the civil war - FF or FG who are two sides of the same coin.
Someone mentioned the five French Republics there. France had a very different history to us to account for all of those variations but what they have now is a centre-right party and a socialist alternative, with a small number then going for the far right of Le Pen. I hope Ireland don't have a demand for a Le Pen type figure but electoral choices based on ideologies and not personalities shouldn't be too much to ask for, should it?
Fianna Fail isn't a pure centre-right party. It is a populist party who does what it can to get re-elected without the burden of ideology. That is why it is successful and why it will always end in tears.
Look at the last decade. Higher and higher public spending on the back of lower and lower taxes. It is not just the banks that gave us the reputation of being a financial basket case.
Fair point. Bertie famously declared himself a socialist. But Fianna Fail's continued run was faciliated by the lack of a real alternative. That is not a criticism of FG, merely of the history of Irish politics. And a new left/right divide would only be useful with real politician reform where TDs were elected to govern and legislate and not to get medical cards and sort out the potholes after the bad weather. To be honest so much needs changing that it is hard to be optimistic.
In terms of Political,Social or Economic change, the forthcoming election will effect nothing. What it will do is establish and prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the Irish electorate are the most Conservative in Europe, if not the world. While the political and financial ellites continue to prosper, the ordinary citizens are being driven to despair, poverty and emigration, the hope and expectation is for the return to power of one of the most right wing parties in Europe. Aided and abetted by a Poodle Labour Party, unworthy of the name Labour, they will gleefully and enthusiastically implement the IMF and ECB dictats. As for reform, the only likely change will be a degrading of workers and citizens rights. The really sad part of all this is that not only will the majority not vote for a real viable radical alternative, they wont even consider one. Its not just FF who are sick and have lost their way, its the Irish Nation
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 21, 2011, 06:37:34 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 21, 2011, 05:54:05 PM
Oh the embarrassment of these Castlebar simpletons. Imagine one of them is going to be Leader of the country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5gcx5OUack&feature=related
Cringeworthy stuff of the highest order as I said at the time, that video.
I actually don't find that video cringeworth tbh, as this is a normal reaction anywhere in the world, sure in Moneygall they where like that when Obama won ffs.
What I did find alot worse and cringeworth was when that clown ran out of the Oireachtas shouting that Mayo had won, I just thought O no what a muppet, cringe.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 21, 2011, 08:40:31 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 21, 2011, 06:37:34 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 21, 2011, 05:54:05 PM
Oh the embarrassment of these Castlebar simpletons. Imagine one of them is going to be Leader of the country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5gcx5OUack&feature=related
Cringeworthy stuff of the highest order as I said at the time, that video.
I actually don't find that video cringeworth tbh, as this is a normal reaction anywhere in the world, sure in Moneygall they where like that when Obama won ffs.
What I did find alot worse and cringeworth was when that clown ran out of the Oireachtas shouting that Mayo had won, I just thought O no what a muppet, cringe.
Of course you dont. Sure werent you one of them.
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 21, 2011, 10:58:24 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Not at all, I can't wait to see Dev spinning in his grave with a copy of the Irish Press shoved up his hole
as Charlie runs burning with the fires of Hell through Phoenix Park.
For Fine Gael's sake I really hope you have nothing to do with them especially on the canvassing end of things.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2011, 09:41:33 PM
I was just thinking that Seanie. Maybe he's a FF plant, a sort of double agent. Like Ian Paisley being the IRA's best recruiter.
Lads I know ye're coming at this from a different perspective and of course deep seated rage is not an attractive trait that will bring along a lot of support, but surely ye must understand that while people keep it under their hats as best they can, for a lot of people who have seen through FF and their ways for the last five years, of course it's natural to want them to suffer. Just as the parents of a murdered child want the killer to go to jail for the crime, so it is natural that the citizens of Ireland would want to see justice done to those who brutally raped and sodomized our collective society.
A year or so ago I would have taken part in a discussion on this board on the death penalty and I remember opposing it on the grounds that if I wouldn't be willing to be the guy to flick the switch, then I shouldn't support it, but that was at a time when it would be designed for bog standard murderers and abusers. Fianna Fáil have systematically robbed thousands of wealth from everyone in this country for the enrichment of themselves and their friends, they have denied the opportunity to live and work in Ireland to a whole generation, and their administration of everything is geared towards re-election, to the point that if you're part of the clan, you get your debts written off and a cosy job on a state quango somewhere, if you're not, your vital medical treatments go undone. That's a crime, organised, orchestrated and deliberately executed, on a scale way beyond anything else in the history of the state. Ask me would I flick the switch if Bertie was in the chair? I honestly don't know.
Don't presume that because there are people out their who feel that they should all burn in hell, that they are a plant. I find it a quite natural feeling right now.
I also understand that I'm probably helping their cause by getting the backs up of traditional FF voters who are just looking for an excuse to return home to the party with their vote on March 11th, but I can't help it. These people are going to find some excuse to do so anyway,they're conditioned to do so.
I really wish I wasn't partial to a particular party because I feel genuine anger towards Fianna Fáil, by being an F.G. supporter this is easily dismissed, I believe unfairly. Perhaps my wording was crass, but that is more than the Fianna Fáil party deserve they have been a parasite on the back of the Irish nation for far too long. They are so bad that if there where only two choices F.F. or S.F. I would give S.F. all my preferences.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 21, 2011, 08:46:33 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 21, 2011, 10:58:24 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 20, 2011, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 20, 2011, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 20, 2011, 08:41:41 PM
Anybody else sick of the election already?
Not at all, I can't wait to see Dev spinning in his grave with a copy of the Irish Press shoved up his hole
as Charlie runs burning with the fires of Hell through Phoenix Park.
For Fine Gael's sake I really hope you have nothing to do with them especially on the canvassing end of things.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 20, 2011, 09:41:33 PM
I was just thinking that Seanie. Maybe he's a FF plant, a sort of double agent. Like Ian Paisley being the IRA's best recruiter.
Lads I know ye're coming at this from a different perspective and of course deep seated rage is not an attractive trait that will bring along a lot of support, but surely ye must understand that while people keep it under their hats as best they can, for a lot of people who have seen through FF and their ways for the last five years, of course it's natural to want them to suffer. Just as the parents of a murdered child want the killer to go to jail for the crime, so it is natural that the citizens of Ireland would want to see justice done to those who brutally raped and sodomized our collective society.
A year or so ago I would have taken part in a discussion on this board on the death penalty and I remember opposing it on the grounds that if I wouldn't be willing to be the guy to flick the switch, then I shouldn't support it, but that was at a time when it would be designed for bog standard murderers and abusers. Fianna Fáil have systematically robbed thousands of wealth from everyone in this country for the enrichment of themselves and their friends, they have denied the opportunity to live and work in Ireland to a whole generation, and their administration of everything is geared towards re-election, to the point that if you're part of the clan, you get your debts written off and a cosy job on a state quango somewhere, if you're not, your vital medical treatments go undone. That's a crime, organised, orchestrated and deliberately executed, on a scale way beyond anything else in the history of the state. Ask me would I flick the switch if Bertie was in the chair? I honestly don't know.
Don't presume that because there are people out their who feel that they should all burn in hell, that they are a plant. I find it a quite natural feeling right now.
I also understand that I'm probably helping their cause by getting the backs up of traditional FF voters who are just looking for an excuse to return home to the party with their vote on March 11th, but I can't help it. These people are going to find some excuse to do so anyway,they're conditioned to do so.
I really wish I wasn't partial to a particular party because I feel genuine anger towards Fianna Fáil, by being an F.G. supporter this is easily dismissed, I believe unfairly. Perhaps my wording was crass, but that is more than the Fianna Fáil party deserve they have been a parasite on the back of the Irish nation for far too long. They are so bad that if there where only two choices F.F. or S.F. I would give S.F. all my preferences.
It's dismissed because people have you down as the village idiot. You can put your point across without ranting and raving as you have been for months.
+1
It does get a bit tiring.
theres no harm in being passionate about your beliefs mayo... the country has been shafted your intitled to be angry in fact according to what is being said all over the world irish people have not been angry enough
Quote from: Pangurban on January 21, 2011, 08:30:15 PM
In terms of Political,Social or Economic change, the forthcoming election will effect nothing. What it will do is establish and prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the Irish electorate are the most Conservative in Europe, if not the world. While the political and financial ellites continue to prosper, the ordinary citizens are being driven to despair, poverty and emigration, the hope and expectation is for the return to power of one of the most right wing parties in Europe. Aided and abetted by a Poodle Labour Party, unworthy of the name Labour, they will gleefully and enthusiastically implement the IMF and ECB dictats. As for reform, the only likely change will be a degrading of workers and citizens rights. The really sad part of all this is that not only will the majority not vote for a real viable radical alternative, they wont even consider one. Its not just FF who are sick and have lost their way, its the Irish Nation
This is an interesting post and I reluctantly agree with most of it. However, I disagree with FG being the most right wing in Europe for two reasons:
1) FG is not even the most right wing in Ireland. The PDs and the PD leaning FFers are/were the most right wing in Ireland.
2) Irish political parties are all ultimately the condom around the FF member. They are flexible and when necessary protect themselves by emulating the shape of the larger party .
And yes I have had a glass or two of wine.
A fb post by a member of the board today:
"Irony - Brian Cowen, currently presiding over the most unpopular government in the history of the State, had a meeting today in Armagh at a place known locally as 'The Shambles'."
:D
Fine Gael might talk a good policy from their position in opposition and have the appearance that they will make good government, some even think they would even be better with a virtual majority. I am reminded of one stunt they pulled in the past to get elected to government, namely the promise of £9p/w home allowance for mothers. As soon as they got in, 'oh we didn't realise FF had fecked up the finances so much' and dropped the promise.
Having a look at the FG manifesto, it is wooly beyond belief.
I was trying to think of one FF good bit of business, possibly the price the state got for Eircom shares and setting up the pension fund with the readies - all lost now course.
Cowen making a statement from Merrion Hotel at 2pm
Will be stepping down as leader of FF, but staying on as Taoiseach.
I don't think that will wash though, FF themselves said only last week that having a seperate FF leader and Taoiseach wouldn't work.
May not need to wait until 11th March!
RTÉ 1 is going live to the speech.
He would be safer staying where he is.
A captain should go down with its liner.
RTÉ reporting that that Brian Cowen to resign as FF leader, but remain as Taoiseach until after election.
This is a complete clusterfuck.
That gowl Martin Manseragh now on radio like Comical Ali.
Who'll be Taoiseach next week. Does it matter seeing we are bent over gettiing it, sans lubricant, from the EU/IMF.
I am dreading the election as I have only missed one vote since I got the vote in 1984. Facing a ballot paper I honestly cannot, in fair conscience, give anyone a number 1.
Maybe I'll run as an independent, do no canvass, lose the deposit but give myself the No 1 and letthe vote die.
Then I can have a clear conscience.
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Yes Peter we know. ::)
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
I'd vote for Shamrock Shore
Have u a vote in Dun Laoghaire LL?
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
Okay just for you Nordies, the savages Sinn Fein/IRA will "get in" after the election
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
Might be Gilmore he's talking about??
Okay just for you Nordies, the savages Sinn Fein/IRA will "get in" after the election
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
Might be Gilmore he's talking about??
Okay just for you Nordies, the savages Sinn Fein/IRA will "get in" after the election
One could only hope for Gilmore rather then a Mayo person.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:53:24 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
Might be Gilmore he's talking about??
Okay just for you Nordies, the savages Sinn Fein/IRA will "get in" after the election
One could only hope for Gilmore rather then a Mayo person.
I was thinking of a Labour / Sinn Fein coalition.
Gilmore as Taoiseach and Ó Caoláin as Tánaiste.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:53:24 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
Might be Gilmore he's talking about??
Okay just for you Nordies, the savages Sinn Fein/IRA will "get in" after the election
One could only hope for Gilmore rather then a Mayo person.
I was thinking of a Labour / Sinn Fein coalition.
Gilmore as Taoiseach and Ó Caoláin as Tánaiste.
Would it not be Adams as Tanaiste? he is the leader of your terrorist group. So what your saying is two party's with 25 seats between them are going to win another 60 to get a majority to become the next Government.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:53:24 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
Might be Gilmore he's talking about??
Okay just for you Nordies, the savages Sinn Fein/IRA will "get in" after the election
One could only hope for Gilmore rather then a Mayo person.
I was thinking of a Labour / Sinn Fein coalition.
Gilmore as Taoiseach and Ó Caoláin as Tánaiste.
Would it not be Adams as Tanaiste? he is the leader of your terrorist group. So what your saying is two party's with 25 seats between them are going to win another 60 to get a majority to become the next Government.
Time will tell, time will tell.
As for Adams, no I don't think it's become Tánaiste.
Two candidates so for for Fianna Fail leadership, Micheal Martin & Brian Lenihan.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 22, 2011, 03:07:42 PM
Have u a vote in Dun Laoghaire LL?
It could be arranged,I know people..
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 05:03:16 PM
Two candidates so for for Fianna Fail leadership, Micheal Martin & Brian Lenihan.
Great. I hope Lenihan is devoured by his own. If not we get to see him devoured by the electorate. Win Win.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:53:24 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 22, 2011, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
You'll be sorry when he is gone and the Mayo Gombeen Inda Kinny takes over.
Who's to say Fianna Fail or Fine Gael will get in, after the election?
Might be Gilmore he's talking about??
Okay just for you Nordies, the savages Sinn Fein/IRA will "get in" after the election
One could only hope for Gilmore rather then a Mayo person.
I was thinking of a Labour / Sinn Fein coalition.
Gilmore as Taoiseach and Ó Caoláin as Tánaiste.
Would it not be Adams as Tanaiste? he is the leader of your terrorist group. So what your saying is two party's with 25 seats between them are going to win another 60 to get a majority to become the next Government.
[/quote
Anything can happen.
Peter - Why are you too ashamed to tell us where you are really from? It must be some shit hole.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 22, 2011, 06:04:49 PM
Peter - Why are you too ashamed to tell us where you are really from? I must be some shit hole.
Ah your not that bad
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on January 22, 2011, 06:06:18 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 22, 2011, 06:04:49 PM
Peter - Why are you too ashamed to tell us where you are really from? I must be some shit hole.
Ah your not that bad
:D Edited that one!
So when FF are voted out will they get us to vote again?
O Cuiv the only man capable of saving FF.
Can call on The Long Fella to renew the spirit of the party.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 22, 2011, 06:55:51 PM
O Cuiv the only man capable of saving FF.
Can call on The Long Fella to renew the spirit of the party.
Yes please!
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 22, 2011, 06:04:49 PM
Peter - Why are you too ashamed to tell us where you are really from? It must be some shit hole.
Cavan
How much is the deposit to run?
€1,000??
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 22, 2011, 10:00:06 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 22, 2011, 06:04:49 PM
Peter - Why are you too ashamed to tell us where you are really from? It must be some shit hole.
Cavan
Incredible wit. Listen you are a sad little tosspot with nothing of interest to say about anything. I suggest you get a girlfriend, a hobby or something that keeps you away from pc's. f**k me this is a great forum but it attracts some rare pricks too.
Going by this poll SF have got 35.1% of the vote. I wonder would we get a clearer outcome if board members living in the 6 counties didn't vote.
I'm also surprised to see a high number of board members have still selected FF.
Aine Kerr on twitter 20 mins ago:
24 hours later and the scramble is on to get to the Merrion Hotel (again) for a press conference. Greens to announce outcome of discussions.
Greens press conference now on RTE website.
'Due to breakdown in trust.............we can no longer remain in Government'.
FG and others will help to pass the finance bill.
Government gone.
Wow what a turbulent week in Irish politics.
Greens trying to save face. Why not last year is what I want know? Its too little too late and the Greens will be annihilated come the elections.
Quote from: Galwaybhoy on January 23, 2011, 03:49:04 PM
Wow what a turbulent week in Irish politics.
Greens trying to save face. Why not last year is what I want know? Its too little too late and the Greens will be annihilated come the elections.
Some week alright. GE campaign start in earnest now.
Last time the Indo which had been attacking Bertie did a complete U-turn and spent the campaign slaughtering Kenny. Will they do it again?
Of course the meeting between Bertie, Cowen and Tony O'Reilly around that time was routine and had nothing to do with the u-turn.
small print - there is no irony intended in my comments above
Can anyone save the Country from the damage done to it by the cuntish alliance of O'Reilly/Bertiebolox/Harney/McCreevy/Bankers/builders???
Hard to see where radical new thinking will come from looking at the FG/Lab ranks of wrinklies or the "new" whizz kids like Hayes/Varadkar whose notions would be suited to Thatcher in the 80s. or Bacik who is steeped in upper class Smoked salmon PC 1970s leftieism
At least I can vote for Ming ;D
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
He is no longer the leader of that party though.
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
He is no longer the leader of that party though.
But he is a member ;D
Will he be the first not to win an election or lose an election?
Quote from: ziggysego on January 23, 2011, 05:28:17 PM
Will he be the first not to win an election or lose an election?
Will Micheal Martin, Brian Lenihan, Eamon O'Cuiv or Mary Hanifin be the last leader of Fianna Fáil?
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
He is no longer the leader of that party though.
But he is a member ;D
I see what you mean, he leads the government, not the party, yes!
Does anyone know if Mary Hanifin is the defacto leader of Fianna Fáil, is she F.F.'s Kevin Keegan?
Talk in the papers that SF could get in with Labour but who would be the leader as Gerry Adams can't be?
Quote from: ross4life on January 23, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
Talk in the papers that SF could get in with Labour but who would be the leader as Gerry Adams can't be?
Gilmore would probably have to do a Trevor Sargent, he has said no to this already. I'm pretty sure he said as recently as yesterday I think that the only party he would not go into power with was S.F.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
He is no longer the leader of that party though.
But he is a member ;D
I see what you mean, he leads the government, not the party, yes!
Does anyone know if Mary Hanifin is the defacto leader of Fianna Fáil, is she F.F.'s Kevin Keegan?
God I hope. She would be final nail.
She showed herself to be a terrible ditherer last week so sadly she hasn't a prayer.
Its Martin's to lose.
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
He is no longer the leader of that party though.
But he is a member ;D
I see what you mean, he leads the government, not the party, yes!
Does anyone know if Mary Hanifin is the defacto leader of Fianna Fáil, is she F.F.'s Kevin Keegan?
God I hope. She would be final nail.
She showed herself to be a terrible ditherer last week so sadly she hasn't a prayer.
Its Martin's to lose.
Is it possible she might get a female voter boost? She is awful but you can never figure what motivates people.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: ross4life on January 23, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
Talk in the papers that SF could get in with Labour but who would be the leader as Gerry Adams can't be?
Gilmore would probably have to do a Trevor Sargent, he has said no to this already. I'm pretty sure he said as recently as yesterday I think that the only party he would not go into power with was S.F.
There does be a lot of that auld talk before an election but you'd be amazed what would happen if the numbers added up.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 23, 2011, 05:47:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: ross4life on January 23, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
Talk in the papers that SF could get in with Labour but who would be the leader as Gerry Adams can't be?
Gilmore would probably have to do a Trevor Sargent, he has said no to this already. I'm pretty sure he said as recently as yesterday I think that the only party he would not go into power with was S.F.
There does be a lot of that auld talk before an election but you'd be amazed what would happen if the numbers added up.
Ya the Green Party, circa 2007.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
He is no longer the leader of that party though.
But he is a member ;D
I see what you mean, he leads the government, not the party, yes!
Does anyone know if Mary Hanifin is the defacto leader of Fianna Fáil, is she F.F.'s Kevin Keegan?
God I hope. She would be final nail.
She showed herself to be a terrible ditherer last week so sadly she hasn't a prayer.
Its Martin's to lose.
Is it possible she might get a female voter boost? She is awful but you can never figure what motivates people.
What female voter boost? This will be a vote of the Fianna Fail parliamentary party.
If you are talking about the GE her seat is considered very vulnerable.
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:53:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:38:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:32:06 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 23, 2011, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:15:06 PM
Am I right in saying Cowen is the first Fianna Fáil member to lead a single party government since Charles Haughey!
He is no longer the leader of that party though.
But he is a member ;D
I see what you mean, he leads the government, not the party, yes!
Does anyone know if Mary Hanifin is the defacto leader of Fianna Fáil, is she F.F.'s Kevin Keegan?
God I hope. She would be final nail.
She showed herself to be a terrible ditherer last week so sadly she hasn't a prayer.
Its Martin's to lose.
Is it possible she might get a female voter boost? She is awful but you can never figure what motivates people.
What female voter boost? This will be a vote of the Fianna Fail parliamentary party.
If you are talking about the GE her seat is considered very vulnerable.
I suppose your right, and sorry ya I had switched to the GE there. Also a female boost would only happen if she had a hope of becoming Taoiseach, but thats not going to happen.
FG cosying up to the Greens already?
Quote from: Ulick on January 23, 2011, 06:13:57 PM
FG cosying up to the Greens already?
You talking about the Finance Bill Ulick? Labour have said the same. Also what use will the Greens be after the G.E. How many seats do ya reckon they will manage?
I see Adams was interviewed by RTE in the midst of a derelict back alley?
Just how many Labour td's were able to fit into the one camera frame, 10?
All parties are united on the Finance Bill except for Sinn Fein.
Really, what's the difference between FG/FF/Lab? a % point on the interest rates?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 06:21:40 PM
You talking about the Finance Bill Ulick? Labour have said the same. Also what use will the Greens be after the G.E. How many seats do ya reckon they will manage?
The Greens and FG held talks with each other before the Greens announced they were withdrawing.
Quote from: Ulick on January 23, 2011, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 06:21:40 PM
You talking about the Finance Bill Ulick? Labour have said the same. Also what use will the Greens be after the G.E. How many seats do ya reckon they will manage?
The Greens and FG held talks with each other before the Greens announced they were withdrawing.
Is that not just Fine Gael showing leadership and taking Fianna Fáil out of the equation. Its about time that F.F. where bypassed as they are the past and a barrier to Irish democracy and economic survival.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 06:37:13 PM
Is that not just Fine Gael showing leadership and taking Fianna Fáil out of the equation. Its about time that F.F. where bypassed as they are the past and a barrier to Irish democracy and economic survival.
Maybe but now is not the time for back-room deals, there has been enough of that already.
In other news Labour are fairly making fools of themselves by trying to get the Finance Bill passed before the election. Trying to ride two horses, I hope the sleeveen c***ts get found out in the course of the campaign.
Quote from: Ulick on January 23, 2011, 06:51:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 06:37:13 PM
Is that not just Fine Gael showing leadership and taking Fianna Fáil out of the equation. Its about time that F.F. where bypassed as they are the past and a barrier to Irish democracy and economic survival.
Maybe but now is not the time for back-room deals, there has been enough of that already.
In other news Labour are fairly making fools of themselves by trying to get the Finance Bill passed before the election. Trying to ride two horses, I hope the sleeveen c***ts get found out in the course of the campaign.
And well they may. The onus is on Fine Gael to go on the attack but I suspect they wont do it. I think this is a dangerous election. Its likely to be a reactionary backlash which is understandable given the position we've been left in. However its not healthy. What is needed in terms of stability is a Fine Gael majority or almost a Fine Gael majority supported by Independents.
A Fine Gael/Labour coalition to me is stupid. They're ideologically opposed and thats the way it should be. Personally I think its time we had a healthy left/right differentiation. Fine Gael and Labour coalition will result in politics as usual rather than work at hand. Id love to see Fine Gael to have the balls to attack Labour. Take them on. Typically though they'll both go to savage Fianna Fail which will make no difference to them cos they're f**ked either way.
Gonna have a few quid on a minimum 8 Independents too.
Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams responded to newspaper reports that the daughter of Jean McConville, who was murdered by the IRA in 1972, was considering running against him in the Louth constituency.
Helen McKendry and her husband, Seamus, started the campaign that led to the IRA finally agreeing to give locations of the bodies of the so-called 'Disappeared'.
Nine victims have so far been recovered.
Mr Adams said the McConville family had suffered grievously during the Troubles, and that anyone who wished to stand in the election should do so.
Seemingly to run as an independent you need:
30 signatures from registered voters in your constituency
or
500 euro deposit.
I am thinking about this.........
I can get 30 signatures no bother.
Where do I sign?
In your case SS, €500 or 30 signatures x €20 each.
Go for it SS. Somebody has to provide an alternative to the Hairy Lesbians.
Hardy
I am considering an alliance with said Hairy Lesbians.
You know it makes sense.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 24, 2011, 11:07:01 AM
Hardy
I am considering an alliance with said Hairy Lesbians.
You know it makes sense.
That was my first thought too SS, for you I mean! ;)
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 24, 2011, 11:07:01 AM
Hardy
I am considering an alliance with said Hairy Lesbians.
You know it makes sense.
You're a natural, SS. Your first political act is a sellout. What were you offered?
No Hardy
The first item on my agenda was the split. However as the sole member it was hard to consider this seriously.
HL's would offer feck all. Hard to deal with them to be fair
Mattie McGrath and Dan Boyle eating each other alive on Newstalk now.
Giving out about each others Government policies and agendas.
http://www.newstalk.ie/ (http://www.newstalk.ie/)
Just had my first election candidate at the door!
Alex White from Labour - quick out of the blocks.
QuoteFitzpatrick set to confirm Election contest
Louth manager Peter Fitzpatrick
24 January 2011
Louth manager Peter Fitzpatrick will allow his name to go forward for the forthcoming General Election campaign, according to local media reports.
While no firm decision has yet been announced, it now appears likely that Fitzpatrick's name will be on the ballot paper as a Fine Gael candidate.
Local radio station LMFM tweeted on Sunday that Fitzpatrick had decided to accept Fine Gael's invitation to contest the election, which is due to take place on Friday 11 March next.
The Clan na Gael clubman, who was a reliable servant of the county during a lengthy playing career, replaced Eamonn McEneaney as Wee County manager ahead of the 2010 campaign.
He steered the county to the final of both the O'Byrne Cup and the Leinster SFC, and emerged with reputation enhanced following his considered response to the hugely controversial nature of his side's defeat to Meath in the provincial championship.
The Louth constituency will see plenty of change from this year, with long-serving Fianna Fáil Minister Dermot Ahern having announced that he will be stepping down and Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams fancied to take a seat in the first election he has contested in the Republic of Ireland, where he replaces departing Sinn Féin TD Arthur Morgan.
Should he confirm his candidature, Fitzpatrick will stand alongside Fine Gael's education spokesman Fergus O'Dowd, who was first elected to Dáil Eireann in 2002.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=141100
Bit of dilemma for some Louth fans now that Fitzer is standing, can they see past party politics and vote FG?
SS I think you`ll have to go with the €500 deposit, I cant see you finding 30 people who are literate in Longford to be honest.
2 SF candidates in Mayo I believe. Rose Conway-Walsh from Belmullet and another Castlebar lady, I don't know her name.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 24, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
2 SF candidates in Mayo I believe. Rose Conway-Walsh from Belmullet and another Castlebar lady, I don't know her name.
Therese Ruane I'd say - sister of Catriona Ruane.
I think it's a bit foolish to run 2 candidates where the old FF/FG conservatism will shine through. I suppose they may be targetting a few years down the line.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 24, 2011, 09:22:59 PM
I think it's a bit foolish to run 2 candidates where the old FF/FG conservatism will shine through. I suppose they may be targetting a few years down the line.
SF did this in louth prior to Arthur Morgan getting in.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 24, 2011, 10:23:53 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 24, 2011, 09:22:59 PM
I think it's a bit foolish to run 2 candidates where the old FF/FG conservatism will shine through. I suppose they may be targetting a few years down the line.
SF did this in louth prior to Arthur Morgan getting in.
Well Belmullet and Castlebar are an hour apart so there's not that much crossover and, its not as if they ought to worry about splitting the SF vote, that'll stay in party anyway. Surprised Gerry Murray from Charlestown is not running, he's the party's best candidate in the county in my opinion, although Rose Conway-Walsh has plenty of potential too.
just watched wooden head doesnt seem like there was much support in the audience for the finance bill although the whole panel bar sinn fein sound like they are gonna give it the green light. this could change when gilmore gets up tomorrow morning ::)
Quote from: Tubberman on January 24, 2011, 09:07:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 24, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
2 SF candidates in Mayo I believe. Rose Conway-Walsh from Belmullet and another Castlebar lady, I don't know her name.
Therese Ruane I'd say - sister of Catriona Ruane.
Thats right, they played mixed doubles Tennis with Enda Kenny and I think Harry Barrett (Lab) for charity in Castlebar there last year.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 24, 2011, 11:06:47 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 24, 2011, 09:07:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 24, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
2 SF candidates in Mayo I believe. Rose Conway-Walsh from Belmullet and another Castlebar lady, I don't know her name.
Therese Ruane I'd say - sister of Catriona Ruane.
Thats right, they played mixed doubles Tennis with Enda Kenny and I think Harry Barrett (Lab) for charity in Castlebar there last year.
Where was Bev?
Quote from: muppet on January 24, 2011, 11:08:12 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 24, 2011, 11:06:47 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 24, 2011, 09:07:38 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 24, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
2 SF candidates in Mayo I believe. Rose Conway-Walsh from Belmullet and another Castlebar lady, I don't know her name.
Therese Ruane I'd say - sister of Catriona Ruane.
Thats right, they played mixed doubles Tennis with Enda Kenny and I think Harry Barrett (Lab) for charity in Castlebar there last year.
Where was Bev?
Windsor Palace!
Quote from: All of a Sludden on January 24, 2011, 08:11:00 PM
Bit of dilemma for some Louth fans now that Fitzer is standing, can they see past party politics and vote FG?
SS I think you`ll have to go with the €500 deposit, I cant see you finding 30 people who are literate in Longford to be honest.
I think you'll find it easier to find people who can string a sentence together in Longford than in your part of the woods. Speaking as someone familiar with both territories. ::)
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
didn't catch any tv last night, was that the same show pearse doherty was on?
Quote from: Banana Man on January 25, 2011, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
didn't catch any tv last night, was that the same show pearse doherty was on?
No - Burton, Higgins & Coveney
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on January 25, 2011, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
didn't catch any tv last night, was that the same show pearse doherty was on?
Didn't see it but the posters on politics.ie were far from impressed. Was it anything specific she said or just came across badly in general?
How did the other panelists do?
No - Burton, Higgins & Coveney
QuoteAnyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFJV9RZ716A&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFJV9RZ716A&feature=player_embedded)
And they wonder why people are disillusioned with politicians,. If my kids behaved like that I'd be embarassed
Quote from: Declan on January 25, 2011, 10:11:44 AM
QuoteAnyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFJV9RZ716A&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFJV9RZ716A&feature=player_embedded)
And they wonder why people are disillusioned with politicians,. If my kids behaved like that I'd be embarassed
jeysus wept, i would say the EU boys are bricking it right now, it's a wonder the euro rate has fallen through the floor
Labour has had a tough few days. Roisin Shortall was reduced to screeching wreak on the Week in Politics on Sunday night, Mary Lou took Ruairi Quinn down a few pegs on Newtalk, that clown on the Front Line last night will never be allowed near a television camera again and then the Burton meltdown on Vinny last night. Slap it up the traitorous pricks.
Saw that last night, she was a complete disaster. The Après Match boys would have proud of that.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
VB is well worth staying up for, knows exactly what buttons to press, Joan made some fool of herself last night
Quote from: Tubberman on January 25, 2011, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on January 25, 2011, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
didn't catch any tv last night, was that the same show pearse doherty was on?
No - Burton, Higgins & Coveney
Didn't see it but the posters on politics.ie were far from impressed. Was it anything specific she said or just came across badly in general?
How did the other panelists do?
Coveney was all over the shop as well but was lucky that Burton deflected the attention away from him. Browne asked him to identify one thing that Kenny has improved upon in the past 7 months and he spent about a minute humming and hawing without coming up with a response.
Joe Higgins came out of it well by just sitting there and letting Burton trip over herself. I'd say he's guaranteed his seat in Dublin West now, if he wasn't already.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 25, 2011, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
VB is well worth staying up for, knows exactly what buttons to press, Joan made some fool of herself last night
The Human Vuvuzuela continues to damage Labour's cause. How have they not copped on that she's a liability?
Quote from: Hound on January 25, 2011, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 25, 2011, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
VB is well worth staying up for, knows exactly what buttons to press, Joan made some fool of herself last night
The Human Vuvuzuela continues to damage Labour's cause. How have they not copped on that she's a liability?
This election campagin might be fun after all. That's a good start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMcpEaYsb7M&feature=player_embedded
More from Joan
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2011, 11:04:48 AM
Labour has had a tough few days. Roisin Shortall was reduced to screeching wreak on the Week in Politics on Sunday night, Mary Lou took Ruairi Quinn down a few pegs on Newtalk, that clown on the Front Line last night will never be allowed near a television camera again and then the Burton meltdown on Vinny last night. Slap it up the traitorous pricks.
It was obvious that Labour would be exposed as been full of hot- air and the policy of not commiting to anything really. Frontline and tonight on 3 was a blood bath for Labour. But i suppose a party that had Frank Mc Brearty on thier ticket are not the brightest when it comes to picking their candidates. As for Sinn Fein, I feel sorry for Pearse Doherty, he is the only one able to bat for them, poor old Gerry was caught out badly this morning on Morning Ireland.
Fg really dont have to do very much except stay quite and go thorugh the motions and i bet they still wont manage that!
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 25, 2011, 11:58:31 AM
As for Sinn Fein, I feel sorry for Pearse Doherty, he is the only one able to bat for them, poor old Gerry was caught out badly this morning on Morning Ireland.
Adams is going to take a while to adjust and get to grips with the detail of the southern policy lines. I'd say he mainstream media appearances will be restricted to boosting his profile in Louth until he gets his head around things.
Quote from: ludermor on January 25, 2011, 11:55:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMcpEaYsb7M&feature=player_embedded
More from Joan
Vincent Browne is hardly covering himself in glory there either. Acting very immaturely. His aim seems to be to keep prodding and poking and getting a rise out of the panellists.
It's rare enough that he asks a pertinent question.
But yeah, Burton made a complete fool of herself. Labour HQ will have to keep her away from VB until after the election!
Quote from: Hound on January 25, 2011, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 25, 2011, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
VB is well worth staying up for, knows exactly what buttons to press, Joan made some fool of herself last night
The Human Vuvuzuela continues to damage Labour's cause. How have they not copped on that she's a liability?
:D
I think she was drunk.
non Runners this time around from 2007, It like a bad day for fallers at Beechers Brock
Fianna Fáil:
Bertie Ahern, former Taoiseach (Dublin Central)
First elected to the Dáil: 1977
Dermot Ahern, Minister for Justice (resigned)
(Louth)
First elected to the Dáil: 1987
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West)
First elected to the Dáil: 1992
Sean Ardagh, (Dublin South-Central)
First elected to the Dáil: 1997
Martin Cullen, former Minister for Arts, Sports Tourism (Waterford)
First elected to the Dáil: 1987 (as a member of the Progressive Democrats)
*Announced resignation, March 2010*
Noel Dempsey, Minister for Transport (resigned)
(Meath West)
First elected to the Dáil: 1987
Jimmy Devins (Sligo-North Leitrim)
First elected to the Dáil: 2002
Michael Finneran, Minister of State for Housing
(Roscommon South Leitrim)
First elected to the Dáil: 2002
Beverley Flynn (Mayo)
First elected to the Dáil: 1997
Tony Killeen, Minister for Defence (resigned)
(Clare)
First elected to the Dáil: 1992
Tom Kitt (Dublin South)
First elected to the Dáil: 1987
Dr James McDaid (Donegal North-East)
First elected to the Dáil: 1989
*Announced resignation, November 2010*
MJ Nolan (Carlow-Kilkenny)
First elected to the Dáil: 1982
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan)
First elected to the Dáil: 1977
Batt O'Keeffe, Minister for Enterprise Trade & Innovation (resigned)
(Cork North-West)
First elected to the Dáil: 1987
Ned O'Keeffe (Cork East)
First elected to the Dáil: 1982
Noel Treacy (Galway East)
First elected to the Dáil: 1982
Mary Wallace (Meath East)
First elected to the Dáil: 1989
Dr Michael J Woods (Dublin North-East)
First elected to the Dáil: 1977
Fine Gael:
Bernard Allen (Cork North-Central)
First elected to the Dáil: 1981
Paul Connaughton (Galway East)
First elected to the Dáil: 1981
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan)
First elected to the Dáil: 1992
Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly)
First elected to the Dáil: 2002
PJ Sheehan (Cork South-West)
First elected to the Dáil: 1981
Ulick Burke (Galway East)
First elected to the Dáil: 1997
George Lee (Dublin South)
First elected to the Dáil: 2009 (by-election)
*Announced resignation, February 2010*
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South-West)
First elected to the Dáil: 1977
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West)
First elected to the Dáil: 1989
Labour:
Michael D Higgins (Galway West)
First elected to the Dáil: 1981
Liz McManus (Wicklow)
First elected to the Dáil: 1992
Brian O'Shea (Waterford)
First elected to the Dáil: 1989
Dr Mary Upton (Dublin South-Central)
First elected to the Dáil: 2002
Sinn Féin:
Arthur Morgan (Louth)
First elected to the Dáil: 2002
Independents:
Mary Harney, Minister for Health (resigned)
Dublin Mid West
First elected to the Dáil: 1981
Jackie Healy-Rae (Kerry South)
First elected to the Dáil: 1997
I am sure there will be a few more not declaring due to the soft ground they may have to run on.
I wouldn't be surprised if Cowen doesn't run. Is the Bull running down in Kerry South?
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 25, 2011, 12:34:36 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Cowen doesn't run. Is the Bull running down in Kerry South?
Newstalk said this morning the rumours are that Cowen won't run but his brother (Mark?), a councillor will run instead.
Quote from: Hardy on January 25, 2011, 12:13:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 25, 2011, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 25, 2011, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on January 25, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Anyone catch Joan Burton's performance on Vincent Browne last night?
Joe Higgins has probably won a few thousand first preference votes in Dublin West by just sitting there with a big smile on his face!
VB is well worth staying up for, knows exactly what buttons to press, Joan made some fool of herself last night
The Human Vuvuzuela continues to damage Labour's cause. How have they not copped on that she's a liability?
:D
I think she was drunk.
Can you imagine Andy Gray and Dickie Keyes commentating on Joanie? I reckon there would certainly be comments about "time of the month" anyway!! She is a serious pain in the rear end and so full of her opinions. A lot of early fallers in this race and I think there will be a few twists yet. i don't know if FF will get the hammering that people expect. Cowen standing down will have saved them a small bit. If they appoint Martin or O Cuiv the public will see that as a cleaner break from the Bertie/Cowen years and this will save them a bit in the short term anyway. If Lenihan/Hannifan get in the association will be fresh in people's minds and will turn votes.
I hadn't heard that on Newstalk, but I wouldn't be surprised. Barry (that's the brother) is an obvious candidate if he wants to run.
QuoteI wouldn't be surprised if Cowen doesn't run. Is the Bull running down in Kerry South?
The Bull is coming back for more, some neck on him, and he will probably get in too taking the 3rd seat behind Michael Healy-Rae and Tom Sheahan!! Cant see anyone else making much a go of it.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on January 25, 2011, 12:47:09 PM
QuoteI wouldn't be surprised if Cowen doesn't run. Is the Bull running down in Kerry South?
The Bull is coming back for more, some neck on him, and he will probably get in too taking the 3rd seat behind Michael Healy-Rae and Tom Sheahan!! Cant see anyone else making much a go of it.
Would PJ Donovan not have a chance down there? Could carry a good Cahirciveen vote. Is he running for FG?
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 25, 2011, 12:34:36 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Cowen doesn't run. Is the Bull running down in Kerry South?
Bertie Ahern made an interesting comment yesterday in relation to his own decision not to run:
"...the historical decision in Fianna Fail has been if you are no longer the leader or the taoiseach you don't run"
Might have been one of the reasons Cowen fought so hard to retain the leadership until after the election - he would have got 4 or 5 more years as a TD.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on January 25, 2011, 12:47:09 PM
QuoteI wouldn't be surprised if Cowen doesn't run. Is the Bull running down in Kerry South?
The Bull is coming back for more, some neck on him, and he will probably get in too taking the 3rd seat behind Michael Healy-Rae and Tom Sheahan!! Cant see anyone else making much a go of it.
Ferris the younger?
She's north Kerry ulick. I don't think the South Kerry ones would take too kindly to a North Kerry one being sent down on top of them. North of Killarney is a different county in many ways.
QuoteWould PJ Donovan not have a chance down there? Could carry a good Cahirciveen vote. Is he running for FG?
cant see him splitting Sheahans vote and there wont be 2 FG seats I'd say . As for Ferris I dont think she has declared yet , Mick Gleeson in Killarney may attract a good vote
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 25, 2011, 12:56:33 PM
She's north Kerry ulick. I don't think the South Kerry ones would take too kindly to a North Kerry one being sent down on top of them. North of Killarney is a different county in many ways.
She did well in the yoyos. Never a better time to capitalize on that than now.
Gerry Adams needs to stay away from the TV shows or he'll make a balls of this election for SF like he did in the last one. He doesn't have a grasp at all of the economics and the media will go to town on him if he keeps this up.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on January 25, 2011, 12:32:54 PM
non Runners this time around from 2007, It like a bad day for fallers at Beechers Bankers Brook
http://www.paulsommerville.com/policies.html (http://www.paulsommerville.com/policies.html)
Anyone in Dublin South East voting for this guy?
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2011, 01:15:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 25, 2011, 12:56:33 PM
She's north Kerry ulick. I don't think the South Kerry ones would take too kindly to a North Kerry one being sent down on top of them. North of Killarney is a different county in many ways.
She did well in the yoyos. Never a better time to capitalize on that than now.
Do we know how she did in the South Kerry boxes? I'd expect her to do well around North Kerry.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 25, 2011, 11:14:21 AM
Saw that last night, she was a complete disaster. The Après Match boys would have proud of that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-qGxjI2arY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-qGxjI2arY)
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 25, 2011, 02:08:15 PM
Do we know how she did in the South Kerry boxes? I'd expect her to do well around North Kerry.
Don't think there were any official tallies kept at the time but she came in at 13% first preferences and attracted transfers all over the show. A 13-14% base would be a good platform to have a serious crack at it. Healy-Rae got in on 15-16% first preferences last time.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 01:16:57 PM
Gerry Adams needs to stay away from the TV shows or he'll make a balls of this election for SF like he did in the last one. He doesn't have a grasp at all of the economics and the media will go to town on him if he keeps this up.
Name one TD that has a grasp of the economics.
The bailout is a joke. The IMF say so.
Colm "Snip" McCarthy on irisheconomy.ie
Attached are the four conclusions of the IMF's Financial Stability Update just released, in so far as they concern the Eurozone, with my comments:
'In the European Union, the steps listed below are needed to reduce uncertainty and help restore confidence in markets.
Further rigorous and credible bank stress testing is required along with time-bound follow-up plans for recapitalization and restructuring of viable, undercapitalized institutions and closure of nonviable ones.'
Comment: The IMF is suggesting new stress tests and 'follow-up' recapitalisation and re-structuring of banks. In that order, not in the reverse order.
'The effective size of the European Financial Stability Facility should be increased and it should have a more flexible mandate. For countries where the banking system represents a large proportion of the economy, it is now even more essential to ensure access to sufficient funds, going beyond national backstops whenever necessary.'
Comment: Means the EFSF is inadequate in size and function, particularly for countries with large banking systems, such as Ireland.
'Euro area-wide resolution mechanisms need to be deployed and strengthened as needed. The introduction of a pan-European bank resolution framework with an EU-wide fiscal backstop would help decouple sovereign and banking risks.'
Comment: Means the IMF wants to share bank losses with bank creditors and re-capitalise banks with EU-wide, and not just national, fiscal support.
'The European Central Bank will need to continue to supply liquidity to banks that need it and keep its Securities Markets Program active, while also recognizing that this is a temporary set of measures and will not solve the underlying problems.'
Comment: Means that ECB has been overly restrictive on both counts.
Looks like Dara Calleary will be the only FF candidate in Mayo.
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2011, 12:08:39 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 25, 2011, 11:58:31 AM
As for Sinn Fein, I feel sorry for Pearse Doherty, he is the only one able to bat for them, poor old Gerry was caught out badly this morning on Morning Ireland.
Adams is going to take a while to adjust and get to grips with the detail of the southern policy lines. I'd say he mainstream media appearances will be restricted to boosting his profile in Louth until he gets his head around things.
How long is it likely to take him? Should he not have been practicing since his 2007 performance? It's not as if the economic crisis started last week.
Is it possible that he's just not up to the job?
Quote from: seafoid on January 25, 2011, 03:19:05 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 01:16:57 PM
Gerry Adams needs to stay away from the TV shows or he'll make a balls of this election for SF like he did in the last one. He doesn't have a grasp at all of the economics and the media will go to town on him if he keeps this up.
Name one TD that has a grasp of the economics.
The bailout is a joke. The IMF say so.
Colm "Snip" McCarthy on irisheconomy.ie
Attached are the four conclusions of the IMF's Financial Stability Update just released, in so far as they concern the Eurozone, with my comments:
'In the European Union, the steps listed below are needed to reduce uncertainty and help restore confidence in markets.
Further rigorous and credible bank stress testing is required along with time-bound follow-up plans for recapitalization and restructuring of viable, undercapitalized institutions and closure of nonviable ones.'
Comment: The IMF is suggesting new stress tests and 'follow-up' recapitalisation and re-structuring of banks. In that order, not in the reverse order.
'The effective size of the European Financial Stability Facility should be increased and it should have a more flexible mandate. For countries where the banking system represents a large proportion of the economy, it is now even more essential to ensure access to sufficient funds, going beyond national backstops whenever necessary.'
Comment: Means the EFSF is inadequate in size and function, particularly for countries with large banking systems, such as Ireland.
'Euro area-wide resolution mechanisms need to be deployed and strengthened as needed. The introduction of a pan-European bank resolution framework with an EU-wide fiscal backstop would help decouple sovereign and banking risks.'
Comment: Means the IMF wants to share bank losses with bank creditors and re-capitalise banks with EU-wide, and not just national, fiscal support.
'The European Central Bank will need to continue to supply liquidity to banks that need it and keep its Securities Markets Program active, while also recognizing that this is a temporary set of measures and will not solve the underlying problems.'
Comment: Means that ECB has been overly restrictive on both counts.
Yes but the problem is that the politicians that know very little about economics are showing Adams up as knowing less. Adams skirts across the surface with general waffle but ask him to go a little deeper and he is easily found out. I know they need to build his profile a bit to make sure he succeeds in Louth but for me O Caolain and Doherty are much better guys on finance and southern politics in general. I assume O Caolain doesn't get rolled out as he is a deemed a cert in Cavan/Monaghan so he needs no promotion? Most of us agree that the Southern media do not want SF to make progress and if Adams gives them any rope they'll hang him high.
As I predicted above it has already started. Pearse Doherty on prime time got attacked from all sides (Richard Bruton FG, Michael McGrath FF, Pat Rabbitte Labour and Miriam O Callaghan RTE) about what Adams was saying on morning ireland. Adams is a serious liability in southern politics for SF and could totally f**k up the gains which are there on a plate for them.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 10:21:54 PM
As I predicted above it has already started. Pearse Doherty on prime time got attacked from all sides (Richard Bruton FG, Michael McGrath FF, Pat Rabbitte Labour and Miriam O Callaghan RTE) about what Adams was saying on morning ireland. Adams is a serious liability in southern politics for SF and could totally f**k up the gains which are there on a plate for them.
Is nobody in the party able to say it to him?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 01:16:57 PM
Gerry Adams needs to stay away from the TV shows or he'll make a balls of this election for SF like he did in the last one. He doesn't have a grasp at all of the economics and the media will go to town on him if he keeps this up.
Speaking of which, the elephant in the room for Fine Gael is how are they going to get round the problem of Enda in the leaders debates on tv.
He can't hide from that. Even if he could be brought up to speed to a competent level on issues, his voice is just desperate, he can't finish a sentence without wavering.
If he couldn't look good against Bertie, Fine Gael should be afraid.
Quote from: Orangemac on January 25, 2011, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 01:16:57 PM
Gerry Adams needs to stay away from the TV shows or he'll make a balls of this election for SF like he did in the last one. He doesn't have a grasp at all of the economics and the media will go to town on him if he keeps this up.
Speaking of which, the elephant in the room for Fine Gael is how are they going to get round the problem of Enda in the leaders debates on tv.
He can't hide from that. Even if he could be brought up to speed to a competent level on issues, his voice is just desperate, he can't finish a sentence without wavering.
If he couldn't look good against Bertie, Fine Gael should be afraid.
Any announcement on when the debates are likely to be? How many are there?
Any announcement on when the debates are likely to be? How many are there?
[/quote]
There's talk of 3. RTE, TV3 and Sky have been mentioned.
TV3 should be good crack if Vincenzo Browne is ringmaster. Goes completely off beam sometimes but is a real wind up merchant.
There will probably be 3 involved this time.If SF could get Doherty on ,it would be a big boost for them
Quote from: Orangemac on January 25, 2011, 10:58:06 PM
Any announcement on when the debates are likely to be? How many are there?
There's talk of 3. RTE, TV3 and Sky have been mentioned.
TV3 should be good crack if Vincenzo Browne is ringmaster. Goes completely off beam sometimes but is a real wind up merchant.
There will probably be 3 involved this time.
If SF could get Doherty on ,it would be a big boost for them[/quote]
Mac it is supposed to be a leaders debate, surrogates will hardly be allowed.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 10:21:54 PM
As I predicted above it has already started. Pearse Doherty on prime time got attacked from all sides (Richard Bruton FG, Michael McGrath FF, Pat Rabbitte Labour and Miriam O Callaghan RTE) about what Adams was saying on morning ireland. Adams is a serious liability in southern politics for SF and could totally f**k up the gains which are there on a plate for them.
I thought Doherty did well considering the four of them lined up against him. The others were all singing from the same vested interest hymn sheet. SF are the only Party proposing an alternative. As Jude Collins said the other day, there's "not a postmans piss" between the three main Parties. - but that doesn't make them right.
Wow Joan Burton was very bad, by the end she had lost the plot.
http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne (http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne)
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 10:21:54 PM
As I predicted above it has already started. Pearse Doherty on prime time got attacked from all sides (Richard Bruton FG, Michael McGrath FF, Pat Rabbitte Labour and Miriam O Callaghan RTE) about what Adams was saying on morning ireland. Adams is a serious liability in southern politics for SF and could totally f**k up the gains which are there on a plate for them.
Miriam o'callaghan is so anti sinn fein it's unreal, wasn't she at the stoop conference to honour john hume, she is totally biased and doesn't know the definition of impartiality, she needs roaded.
Oh FFS! This is going beyond farce. Every second post here is either a whinge about perceived media bias against Sinn Féin or a hymn to the pure whiteness of the party, its leader and its policy of seeing old ladies safely across the road. Even mayogodbetweenusandallharm doesn't come on here to whinge EVERY time Kenny is asked a question on the TV.
Welcome to mainstream politics. Miriam O'Cacklinghen and every other Paxman wannabee concentrates of the perceived weaknesses of the politician they're interviewing. So, in all honesty, I think the SF lads have been getting away fairly lightly, when you think of the questions that haven't even arisen in the studios (yet).
If you want to see media bias in action, take a look at the free ride the Greens get from RTÉ and the D4 hacks - for example the portrayal of Trevor Sargent's attempt to interfere with garda investigations as some kind of ideal of political behaviour to which others should aspire, or the gentle indulgence of their political slapstick show for the last three years.
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 10:42:42 AM
Oh FFS! This is going beyond farce. Every second post here is either a whinge about perceived media bias against Sinn Féin or a hymn to the pure whiteness of the party, its leader and its policy of seeing old ladies safely across the road. Even mayogodbetweenusandallharm doesn't come on here to whinge EVERY time Kenny is asked a question on the TV.
Welcome to mainstream politics. Miriam O'Cacklinghen and every other Paxman wannabee concentrates of the perceived weaknesses of the politician they're interviewing. So, in all honesty, I think the SF lads have been getting away fairly lightly, when you think of the questions that haven't even arisen in the studios (yet).
If you want to see media bias in action, take a look at the free ride the Greens get from RTÉ and the D4 hacks - for example the portrayal of Trevor Sargent's attempt to interfere with garda investigations as some kind of ideal of political behaviour to which others should aspire, or the gentle indulgence of their political slapstick show for the last three years.
Miriam is quite impartial imo, she is a Fianna Fáil supporter (or was). I don't complain about her because she tends to treat all patries the same in her interviews. She roasted Kenny the last time he was on her show, but they where genuine questions not spite like Tubridy. Another perspon who I think is fair is Pat Kenny, people may or may not like his style but he tends to be fair to all parties (another F.F.) as far as I can tell. On to Newstalk, you have Ivan Yeats, ex-FG minister, he is very fair and probably holds his harshest criticism for F.G. You have the two WUM/entertainers, George Hook on Newstalk and Vincent Browne on TV3. George is a raving Blueshirt, but admits it and always makes sure its is known so that his questions are tempered by the audience and interviewee knowing its context (there is no Tubridy - deny deny deny, or snakelike D'Arcy or have a laugh but really wish I could get in a good word about F.F. Brendan O'Connor), he may be a bit harsher on S.F. but he is quite harsh on F.G. when he is not actually just recalling Micheal Collins. Vincent Browne is a real WUM, he usually keeps his harshest criticism of F.G. but thank the Lord for Joan Burton. Tubridy is the person all non-Soldiers of Destiny should avoid.
It tends to be Tubridy, D'Arcy and O'Connor that get my annoyed as they are all F.F.-Sindo-R.T.E. pricks, of course there is Eoin Harris and that Yank woman in the Sindo.
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 10:42:42 AM
Even mayogodbetweenusandallharm doesn't come on here to whinge EVERY time Kenny is asked a question on the TV.
Well considering Kenny hasn't been seen on tv or anywhere else for weeks, never mind being asked a question...
Good point.
No need for Kenny to be on the box the last few weeks. Why should he when FF is imploding in front of everyone.
Massive trite lazyisms being parrotted on this thread (and to be fair elsewhere) such as for example:
1 Enda Kenny being a liability.................. Imo he hasn't done too bad since the 2002 election FG wipeout. Taoiseach in waiting.
2 Gerry Adams being poor economically..................... Being spouted by the same economic "experts" who have driven the country into the gutter.
Make up your own minds lasds/ladies.
BTW if you want a laugh enter Jeremy Paxman and Plaid Cymru spokesman into Youtube to see JP getting his a## being handed to him.
Quote from: Ulick on January 26, 2011, 11:06:18 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 10:42:42 AM
Even mayogodbetweenusandallharm doesn't come on here to whinge EVERY time Kenny is asked a question on the TV.
Well considering Kenny hasn't been seen on tv or anywhere else for weeks, never mind being asked a question...
I have seen Enda Kenny on TV and heard him on radio numerous times this week.
Quote from: Peter Solan the Great on January 26, 2011, 11:47:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on January 26, 2011, 11:06:18 AM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 10:42:42 AM
Even mayogodbetweenusandallharm doesn't come on here to whinge EVERY time Kenny is asked a question on the TV.
Well considering Kenny hasn't been seen on tv or anywhere else for weeks, never mind being asked a question...
I have seen Enda Kenny on TV and heard him on radio numerous times this week.
I thought the Doctors explained everything about
'the voices' Peter.
Looks like the Independents are going to support the Finance Bill now - under protest of course... ::)
A common refrain I am hearing is
"I'm worried that Labour could do well and be in government".
And that would be worse how?
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 26, 2011, 12:02:02 PM
A common refrain I am hearing is
"I'm worried that Labour could do well and be in government".
And that would be worse how?
Joan Burton, the lad who was on frontline on Monday night, Frank Mc Brearty etc.
Martin gets the nod!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0126/politics_tracker.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0126/politics_tracker.html)
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
:D
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
I'm getting 'singles' ads for
Over 50s and
Lesbians
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 26, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
I'm getting 'singles' ads for Over 50s and Lesbians
:D Mine is for over 40's!
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 26, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
I'm getting 'singles' ads for Over 50s and Lesbians
Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians.
Let's see what ads we get now.
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 26, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
I'm getting 'singles' ads for Over 50s and Lesbians
Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians.
Let's see what ads we get now.
Dating Chinese girls!
Not too far off the mark, I am getting an ad banner for checking my credit score.
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 26, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
I'm getting 'singles' ads for Over 50s and Lesbians
Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians.
Let's see what ads we get now.
GAA Club Teamwear. Disappointed.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 26, 2011, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 26, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
I'm getting 'singles' ads for Over 50s and Lesbians
Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians.
Let's see what ads we get now.
GAA Club Teamwear. Disappointed.
I'm also getting "Find Limerick activities". Perhaps there's more to Limerick than meets the eye?
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 26, 2011, 11:47:43 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 26, 2011, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: Hardy on January 26, 2011, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 26, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 26, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
Am I the only one who gets a FG ad at the top when I look at this thread? :o Sorry FG-lads, I won't be joining your new team Ireland.
I'm getting 'singles' ads for Over 50s and Lesbians
Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians. Hairy lesbians.
Let's see what ads we get now.
GAA Club Teamwear. Disappointed.
I'm also getting "Find Limerick activities". Perhaps there's more to Limerick than meets the eye?
1 day resturant deals in Leeds!
So the leaders' debates - what's the story? I thought it was a given that they would happen, but it appears not.
Interesting developments - Martin wants a debate between the 3 leaders - is he wanting to avoid confrontation with Adams? Why would he want to keep the Greens out? Surely they'd take some of the heat as well.
Enda Kenny wants all leaders on Board - what's the story there? Does he want everyone to 'gang up' on FF? Probably no risk for Kenny to have SF there as they'll generally only appeal to FF's support.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 27, 2011, 07:10:49 PM
So the leaders' debates - what's the story? I thought it was a given that they would happen, but it appears not.
Interesting developments - Martin wants a debate between the 3 leaders - is he wanting to avoid confrontation with Adams? Why would he want to keep the Greens out? Surely they'd take some of the heat as well.
Enda Kenny wants all leaders on Board - what's the story there? Does he want everyone to 'gang up' on FF? Probably no risk for Kenny to have SF there as they'll generally only appeal to FF's support.
Martin thinks that the more time enda has to speak the more chance of him f**king up. I thought Martin came across as particularly odious and arrogant today with his 'disappointment and surprise', what a f**king tosser, FF really don't get it yet. And that after Martin came out this morning making the right noises about electoral reform and legislative reform allowing non elected experts into cabinet.
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 27, 2011, 09:32:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 27, 2011, 07:10:49 PM
So the leaders' debates - what's the story? I thought it was a given that they would happen, but it appears not.
Interesting developments - Martin wants a debate between the 3 leaders - is he wanting to avoid confrontation with Adams? Why would he want to keep the Greens out? Surely they'd take some of the heat as well.
Enda Kenny wants all leaders on Board - what's the story there? Does he want everyone to 'gang up' on FF? Probably no risk for Kenny to have SF there as they'll generally only appeal to FF's support.
Martin thinks that the more time enda has to speak the more chance of him f**king up. I thought Martin came across as particularly odious and arrogant today with his 'disappointment and surprise', what a f**king t**ser, FF really don't get it yet. And that after Martin came out this morning making the right noises about electoral reform and legislative reform allowing non elected experts into cabinet.
In fairness Bogball XV you hardly expect Martin to sit back and do nothing, he's trying to save the party not oversee its destruction no matter how many or how much people want it to happen. He's nothing to lose so he's playing as smart a game as possible. Enda Kenny iv said before gets an undeserved hammering from media no matter what. Its bordering on extreme personal bias. However, who is advising the man?? I dont care how democratic he is trying to be by insisting that 5 parties should participate in the debate, he should have known it looks like he's running scared. Fine Gael have a great chance to be the overwhelming winner in this election by getting close to an overall majority yet manage to jeopardise that too often.
Quote from: belleaqua on January 27, 2011, 09:43:14 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 27, 2011, 09:32:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 27, 2011, 07:10:49 PM
So the leaders' debates - what's the story? I thought it was a given that they would happen, but it appears not.
Interesting developments - Martin wants a debate between the 3 leaders - is he wanting to avoid confrontation with Adams? Why would he want to keep the Greens out? Surely they'd take some of the heat as well.
Enda Kenny wants all leaders on Board - what's the story there? Does he want everyone to 'gang up' on FF? Probably no risk for Kenny to have SF there as they'll generally only appeal to FF's support.
Martin thinks that the more time enda has to speak the more chance of him f**king up. I thought Martin came across as particularly odious and arrogant today with his 'disappointment and surprise', what a f**king t**ser, FF really don't get it yet. And that after Martin came out this morning making the right noises about electoral reform and legislative reform allowing non elected experts into cabinet.
In fairness Bogball XV you hardly expect Martin to sit back and do nothing, he's trying to save the party not oversee its destruction no matter how many or how much people want it to happen. He's nothing to lose so he's playing as smart a game as possible. Enda Kenny iv said before gets an undeserved hammering from media no matter what. Its bordering on extreme personal bias. However, who is advising the man?? I dont care how democratic he is trying to be by insisting that 5 parties should participate in the debate, he should have known it looks like he's running scared. Fine Gael have a great chance to be the overwhelming winner in this election by getting close to an overall majority yet manage to jeopardise that too often.
I agree that martin's tactic was right, I just thought he overplayed it and came across badly (I know I'm biased and I remember you telling me I was a little blinkered in my hatred of ahern last time around). Martin's continued pressing of the point was typical of what people have come to dislike about FF, or am I once agan reading the mood of the people wrongly?
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 27, 2011, 10:39:55 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on January 27, 2011, 09:43:14 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 27, 2011, 09:32:35 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 27, 2011, 07:10:49 PM
So the leaders' debates - what's the story? I thought it was a given that they would happen, but it appears not.
Interesting developments - Martin wants a debate between the 3 leaders - is he wanting to avoid confrontation with Adams? Why would he want to keep the Greens out? Surely they'd take some of the heat as well.
Enda Kenny wants all leaders on Board - what's the story there? Does he want everyone to 'gang up' on FF? Probably no risk for Kenny to have SF there as they'll generally only appeal to FF's support.
Martin thinks that the more time enda has to speak the more chance of him f**king up. I thought Martin came across as particularly odious and arrogant today with his 'disappointment and surprise', what a f**king t**ser, FF really don't get it yet. And that after Martin came out this morning making the right noises about electoral reform and legislative reform allowing non elected experts into cabinet.
In fairness Bogball XV you hardly expect Martin to sit back and do nothing, he's trying to save the party not oversee its destruction no matter how many or how much people want it to happen. He's nothing to lose so he's playing as smart a game as possible. Enda Kenny iv said before gets an undeserved hammering from media no matter what. Its bordering on extreme personal bias. However, who is advising the man?? I dont care how democratic he is trying to be by insisting that 5 parties should participate in the debate, he should have known it looks like he's running scared. Fine Gael have a great chance to be the overwhelming winner in this election by getting close to an overall majority yet manage to jeopardise that too often.
I agree that martin's tactic was right, I just thought he overplayed it and came across badly (I know I'm biased and I remember you telling me I was a little blinkered in my hatred of ahern last time around). Martin's continued pressing of the point was typical of what people have come to dislike about FF, or am I once agan reading the mood of the people wrongly?
And I too blinkered on the emphasis I placed on his contribution to the peace process. With Martin I think it is a tactic that has worked, its put the focus on Kenny, not on how arrogant and pressing Martin has been, no?? And typically the press have ran with the anti-Enda agenda. Im just saying he has to reduce the opportunities he gives them.
Quote from: belleaqua on January 27, 2011, 10:57:52 PMAnd I too blinkered on the emphasis I placed on his contribution to the peace process. With Martin I think it is a tactic that has worked, its put the focus on Kenny, not on how arrogant and pressing Martin has been, no?? And typically the press have ran with the anti-Enda agenda. Im just saying he has to reduce the opportunities he gives them.
I give him a little credit for the peace process, but it was happening regardless, there was little or no stomach for it anymore. The groundwork had been done by hume, adams, reynolds, even major. With blair in the uk the time was ripe and it would have been a poor irish taoiseach who couldn't have grasped that with both hands (I may well be understating his part here, but I find it hard to see past the utter contempt I have for the man).
As I say, you may well be right about Martin and he may have scored the goal today. In any case, I wish they would all move on from this sort of shite, the time for games was about 5 years ago.
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 27, 2011, 11:10:30 PM
Quote from: belleaqua on January 27, 2011, 10:57:52 PMAnd I too blinkered on the emphasis I placed on his contribution to the peace process. With Martin I think it is a tactic that has worked, its put the focus on Kenny, not on how arrogant and pressing Martin has been, no?? And typically the press have ran with the anti-Enda agenda. Im just saying he has to reduce the opportunities he gives them.
I give him a little credit for the peace process, but it was happening regardless, there was little or no stomach for it anymore. The groundwork had been done by hume, adams, reynolds, even major. With blair in the uk the time was ripe and it would have been a poor irish taoiseach who couldn't have grasped that with both hands (I may well be understating his part here, but I find it hard to see past the utter contempt I have for the man).
As I say, you may well be right about Martin and he may have scored the goal today. In any case, I wish they would all move on from this sort of shite, the time for games was about 5 years ago.
Fair enough, I repesct your view, I think it was a little more difficult than that though! Ya true, they'll always be playin politics, its the nature of it im afraid.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 27, 2011, 07:10:49 PM
So the leaders' debates - what's the story? I thought it was a given that they would happen, but it appears not.
Interesting developments - Martin wants a debate between the 3 leaders - is he wanting to avoid confrontation with Adams? Why would he want to keep the Greens out? Surely they'd take some of the heat as well.
Enda Kenny wants all leaders on Board - what's the story there? Does he want everyone to 'gang up' on FF? Probably no risk for Kenny to have SF there as they'll generally only appeal to FF's support.
I imagine FG hacks have Kenny strapped to a chair in a padded room with a blackboard in front of him.
Repeat after me " Senior Bondholders". "Austerity Measures", "IMF, no not "EMF", "Unbelievable".
Teach him 10 reasons to vote FF and 10 reasons not to vote FF. Don't actually try and answer the questions. The only thing is that expectations are so low, any reasonably competent performance would be a victory.
5 way leaders debate in Irish would be funny.
Moderator : "Gerry Adams, would Sinn protect the corporation tax from European attempts to increase it?"
Gerry: "Ta".
Kenny made a big mistake on this one.
"Anytime, anyplace Meehal" should have been the reply.
WTF is advising Kenny? (Keep him shut lads, don't want to spook the electorate)
FF are a busted flush. It's like the druken old timer in a saloon bar in a western fillum wanting to face up to the new kid on the block in a shoot off. Kenny blew it, again. Another open goal missed.
Labour are losing support as Mad Joan gets madder (2 years of lectures listening to her moan) and Gilmore disappears. What is Labour policy?
Sinn Fein....ah f**k dont get me started.
Greens will get no seats. No. Trevor will survive. So one seat
The independent loons will hold their own.
Shamrock Shore could have a role in the 31st Dáil
So is the election still on March 11, or is it being brought forward?
It is the perogative of the Teashop. If he disolves the Dáil on Tuesday then it's almost certain to be 25 Feb and he has said he will disolve the Dáil on Tuesday.
So it's Feb 25.
My election literature is being drawn up.
Anyone any controversial policies I could include. Travellers have to feature, as do Romanian beggars, "Fat Cat Bankers" and wans getting pregnant for the social. I could always throw in some reference to 'right to life' just to get the auld wans riz.
I throw it open to gaaboard to form my policies. However no reference to the "struggle" can be included as I don't want to get minus votes here.
Larry for Culture Ministry SS? And soft jobs for several other Larries, including yours truly??
If you move the Ombudsman, HSE, Justice/Law Reform and other troublesome departments to Granard and brought in a new rule that any complaints had to be made in person, one the spot. The complaints would dry up very quickly.
A Longford quango is almost a certainty if I hold the balance of power along with Dolly Healy Rae and Michael Lowry.
Jobs for the boys.
Billy - I'll put you in charge of the Poolbeg Incinerator project where you can deal with Gormley, the soon-to-be-ex TD.
Laurel - a role in the Dept of Education looking after graduates with football skills but no employment skills
Hardy (honourary Larry) - a role in Dept of Foreign Affairs with special responsibility for Northern Ireland affairs.
first law to be passed should be the GPA is a proscribed paramilitary grouping and drive it underground as it's sucking up too much cash
Instead of happy hours in pubs, have unhappy hours i.e. one hour at full prices and the rest of the day at ridiculous prices to encourage footfall and get the ailing pub industry up and running
Bulldoze the Aviva and turn it into a tax free casino based on Monaco and encourage all the big wigs from Europe (IMF etc)over to gamble
Invade the isle of man and keep as tax free haven for foreign investors with the Manx paying crazy tax to the Dail
grant licences for the growing of class A drugs in the impoverished west of Ireland only, designate it as an enterprise zone specialising in class A drugs trade an export all over Europe - twin galway with Bogota for authenticity
Give tax breaks to anyone joining a 'Monday club' but they have to produce evidence (preferably photographic) that they were poleaxed between 9am and 11am on said Monday
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 11:56:09 AM
Anyone any controversial policies I could include. T
You could stand on a platform of midland water for midland people, i.e. let the Dublin councils keep their grubby little hands of Longford's Shannon water.
You could also simultaneously run on the grounds of midland flood relief.
QuoteBilly - I'll put you in charge of the Poolbeg Incinerator project where you can deal with Gormley, the soon-to-be-ex TD.
Baby, I can light that fire!
Quote from: Banana Man on January 28, 2011, 01:02:25 PM
Instead of happy hours in pubs, have unhappy hours i.e. one hour at full prices and the rest of the day at ridiculous prices to encourage footfall and get the ailing pub industry up and running
Happy Hour is already illegal in the Republic, as is ladies night. The first was thought to encourage binge drinking, the latter was interpreted as sexual discrimination against men (take that ya hairy lesbian feminists).
Actually we're off track here as my seat will be in Dun Laoghaire - not Longford/Westmeath.
So local issues here only.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 11:56:09 AM
Anyone any controversial policies I could include.
* establish a tribunal to investigate if tribunals are a waste of time and money;
* single parent allowance to be scrapped and replaced by a two parent allowance;
* free housing to be replaced by not free housing;
* TDs annual pensions to be €1 for every first preference vote they received in their final GE;
* Minister and Taoiseach to receive 1.5 times the above;
* Introduction of rollerblade lanes alongside bicycle lanes.;
* Dáil to have three citizens sitting at desks each with big red 'X'. If two of the citizens press their 'X' during a speech the speaker is then removed from the Dáil for 24 hours first offense, 1 week second offense and will resign after a third offense.
* The above citizens will be chosen by a weekly lotto.
* Every year there will be a vote to banish one Irish citizen from the State. There will be a National Holiday introduced to announce the person being banished which will include a day of celebration. Nominations for the vote are open to anyone but must include Mary Harney every year until she wins one.
i still think we should invade the isle of man
Quote from: Banana Man on January 28, 2011, 01:02:25 PM
Invade the isle of man and keep as tax free haven for foreign investors with the Manx paying crazy tax to the Dail
Leading to making Standard-English, Connacht-Irish, Ulster-Irish, Munster-Irish, North-Mayo-Irish, Manx, Cant, Shelta, Ullans, Hiberno-English, Norse, Yola, Mid-Ulster English, Scots-Gaelic, Old-French, Welsh, Flemish, Palatine-German, Republican-French, Norman-French, Norse-Gaelic, Spanish, Frisian, Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Cornish, Pictish, Yiddish and a few other English variates to be made compulsory on the Leaving Cert and made national languages.
With calls to include Polish, Arabic, Lithuanian, Russian, Cantonese, Mandarin, Portuguese, Mexican-Spanish, various traditional Afircan languages, Stran, Hindi, Magyar, Romance, Roma, and of course Deustch among others to be included.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 02:31:54 PM
Actually we're off track here as my seat will be in Dun Laoghaire - not Longford/Westmeath.
So local issues here only.
Nordie delousing policy!!! ;D
People who throw stones at cars on the moterway will be stoned themselves.
Annex the Boyne valley.
Annex Carlingford.
Hide the roadsigns to Newry.
Have Sellafield moved to Pembrokeshire.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 12:22:32 PM
Hardy (honourary Larry) - a role in Dept of Foreign Affairs with special responsibility for Northern Ireland affairs.
My first act will be to donate Louth to the North.
PSTG to be given a permanent position as Irish Ambassador to the Antartic
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2011, 04:00:31 PM
PSTG to be given a permanent position as Irish Ambassador to the Antartic
PSTG & Diplomacy :D
QuoteMy first act will be to donate Louth to the North
Jazes Hardy - could we not try and get a few bob for it?
I mean surely half a nice bridge, Oriel Park and the all weather racing track, plus the fabulous Cooley penisula as well as eh, some of dem chippers in Dundalk late on a Friday night must be worth something.
Oliver Plunkett's head is probably worth a few grand
Quote
Invade the isle of man and keep as tax free haven for foreign investors with the Manx paying crazy tax to the Dail
Leading to making Standard-English, Connacht-Irish, Ulster-Irish, Munster-Irish, North-Mayo-Irish, Manx, Cant, Shelta, Ullans, Hiberno-English, Norse, Yola, Mid-Ulster English, Scots-Gaelic, Old-French, Welsh, Flemish, Palatine-German, Republican-French, Norman-French, Norse-Gaelic, Spanish, Frisian, Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Cornish, Pictish, Yiddish and a few other English variates to be made compulsory on the Leaving Cert and made national languages.
With calls to include Polish, Arabic, Lithuanian, Russian, Cantonese, Mandarin, Portuguese, Mexican-Spanish, various traditional Afircan languages, Stran, Hindi, Magyar, Romance, Roma, and of course Deustch among others to be included.
I agree with invading the Isle of Man. The assets therein could be used to pay off the national debt and Manx could be reintroduced with a proper Gaelic orthography.
I am not sure about all these other languages, but if you must have some the Frisian seems a runner.
I love this and laugh every time I see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3elLmrCmOqo&feature=feedrec_grec_index
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 05:22:02 PM
QuoteMy first act will be to donate Louth to the North
Jazes Hardy - could we not try and get a few bob for it?
I mean surely half a nice bridge, Oriel Park and the all weather racing track, plus the fabulous Cooley penisula as well as eh, some of dem chippers in Dundalk late on a Friday night must be worth something.
Oliver Plunkett's head is probably worth a few grand
I suppose we might get a few bob for scrappage. As long as it's gone come July and d'anniversary.
Had the FF crew at my door an hour ago. Sheepish is a word that springs to mind, he was stuffing flyers swihen i opened the door on him. He had a tough ten minutes at my door. He mentioned "new era" several times.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 28, 2011, 05:27:20 PM
Quote
Invade the isle of man and keep as tax free haven for foreign investors with the Manx paying crazy tax to the Dail
Leading to making Standard-English, Connacht-Irish, Ulster-Irish, Munster-Irish, North-Mayo-Irish, Manx, Cant, Shelta, Ullans, Hiberno-English, Norse, Yola, Mid-Ulster English, Scots-Gaelic, Old-French, Welsh, Flemish, Palatine-German, Republican-French, Norman-French, Norse-Gaelic, Spanish, Frisian, Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Cornish, Pictish, Yiddish and a few other English variates to be made compulsory on the Leaving Cert and made national languages.
With calls to include Polish, Arabic, Lithuanian, Russian, Cantonese, Mandarin, Portuguese, Mexican-Spanish, various traditional Afircan languages, Stran, Hindi, Magyar, Romance, Roma, and of course Deustch among others to be included.
I agree with invading the Isle of Man. The assets therein could be used to pay off the national debt and Manx could be reintroduced with a proper Gaelic orthography.
I am not sure about all these other languages, but if you must have some the Frisian seems a runner.
The first list are all languages that immigrants or natives of Ireland prior to the 20'th century spoke at one time while living in Ireland. So your lot are Frisians armaghniac? ;) Must have come across with Richard de Clare.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 28, 2011, 07:02:06 PM
Had the FF crew at my door an hour ago. Sheepish is a word that springs to mind, he was stuffing flyers swihen i opened the door on him. He had a tough ten minutes at my door. He mentioned "new era" several times.
We need a new era like just after the French Revolution.
QuoteSo your lot are Frisians armaghniac?
My uncle used to have a rake of frisians, lovely milk. I'd like to be able to talk to them.
Horslips had a song in Manx, as had the Bee Gees
QuoteHe mentioned "new era" several times.
Wait until the Shinner arrives, they'll be on about a new Éire.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 28, 2011, 07:34:15 PM
QuoteSo your lot are Frisians armaghniac?
My uncle used to have a rake of frisians, lovely milk. I'd like to be able to talk to them.
Horslips had a song in Manx, as had the Bee Gees
QuoteHe mentioned "new era" several times.
Wait until the Shinner arrives, they'll be on about a new Éire.
:D
Quote from: armaghniac on January 28, 2011, 07:34:15 PM
QuoteSo your lot are Frisians armaghniac?
My uncle used to have a rake of frisians, lovely milk. I'd like to be able to talk to them.
Horslips had a song in Manx, as had the Bee Gees
QuoteHe mentioned "new era" several times.
Wait until the Shinner arrives, they'll be on about a new Éire.
If the Shinners arrive ask them what the vat rate currently is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UoGl78MzWY
QuoteIf the Shinners arrive ask them what the vat rate currently is.
I'll bet they know the difference in the duty on green diesel.
Enda Kenny arrives home from meeting with José Manuel Barrosa with a deal
(http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/Chamberlain%2BMunich.JPEG)
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 10:37:05 PM
Enda Kenny arrives home from meeting with José Manuel Barrosa with a deal
(http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/Chamberlain%2BMunich.JPEG)
A you must of missed this
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CHKdO4TYthg/TOWWzQy3RQI/AAAAAAAAAII/4fM8DHJMy4Y/s1600/IMF-officials-in-Dublin-006.jpg)
The Panzars are already in Paris.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 28, 2011, 07:02:06 PM
Had the FF crew at my door an hour ago. Sheepish is a word that springs to mind, he was stuffing flyers swihen i opened the door on him. He had a tough ten minutes at my door. He mentioned "new era" several times.
have you no dog?
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 10:37:05 PM
Enda Kenny arrives home from meeting with José Manuel Barrosa with a deal
(http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/Chamberlain%2BMunich.JPEG)
very good shamrock :D
I'm still inconsolably in mourning for our ex-Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, who yesterday expressed his profound disappointment at the single greatest failure of his tenure of Office: that we yet didn't have a national stadium.
I felt so utterly wretched for him, especially as he had such an arduous and heartbreaking struggle wading through the homeless on the street to reach that microphone.
Nice one SS ;)
Will you vote FF FoSB or are you still undecided?
yeh sludden i think hes wavering :)
Always voted FF, but definitely wont this time. Haven't made my mind up as to who I will vote for this time around, but it definitely wont be Sinn Fein. I may have voted for Tomas Sharkey if he had been allowed to run instead of the parachuted candidate. Cant see myself voting FG, that would be like supporting Meath.
Obviously FF are going to take the rap for the state of the country. They are going to take a tanking at the election. The sitting TDs know it, how many of them will stand again?
I don't think we need a slap on the wrist. A kick in the balls would be more apt. A lot of people lost the run of themselves and in fact still are. A lot of business`now go to the wall to avoid paying what they owe. They see it as the easy/cost effective way out, but its the ordinary person who suffers most. I see this every day and its just not how we should do things.
The ordinary man never could live the life of a millionaire, but he could get a hell of a lot of credit. He is now paying it back, with interest as there is no alternative for him.
Well said Hardstation
Quote from: hardstation on January 29, 2011, 12:57:59 AM
Do you lads not just vote for the same party your da, granda, great-granda etc voted for?
No, what a terrible reason to vote for a political party.
Quote from: Galwaybhoy on January 29, 2011, 08:54:05 AM
Quote from: hardstation on January 29, 2011, 12:57:59 AM
Do you lads not just vote for the same party your da, granda, great-granda etc voted for?
No, what a terrible reason to vote for a political party.
Well up until maybe this election that is how I'd estimate 30-50% of the electorate voted. Treating political parties like football teams to be supported and to be loyal to no matter what.
Yes people need to understand that its the wrong reason to vote for a political party.
If your football team wins or loses it most likely wont have any major impact on your life and way of living.
However the party you vote in to office could have serious repercussions on your life.
You should vote for the party that in your view will do the best job but not because you have been loyal to a party all your life or because generations of your family voted for a party.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 29, 2011, 09:38:42 AM
Well up until maybe this election that is how I'd estimate 30-50% of the electorate voted. Treating political parties like football teams to be supported and to be loyal to no matter what.
You are right but the percentage is steadily dropping. All of the major parties have their hard core of supporters with Fianna Fail leading the way. Many tallymen reckon that in the 2002 and 2007 elections the allegiances of the electorate are getting harder to predict; entire regions that once voted heavily for, say, FF or FG were tending to spread the votes about, going by the boxes as they were opened to be counted.
I'm told that a national swing of 2% or more than could decide the outcome of the fight for the last seat in all the 4 and 5 seater constituencies.
Nowadays, with so many non-nationals to be reckoned with and most people have more pressing issues than the Civil War to concern them, party loyalties might take another hammering.
Still, FF has experienced and loyal workers in every constituency in the land and can rely on a good number of 'plumpers' no matter who the candidate is going to be.
I think FF are going to lose more seats to FG than to any other quarter as Lab and SF don't have the infrastructure to make gains on a countrywide basis.
Is anyone else getting the Vote FG banner at the top of the gaaboard?
Quote from: ziggysego on January 29, 2011, 12:45:00 PM
Is anyone else getting the Vote FG banner at the top of the gaaboard?
No but I am getting the line 'merge FF and FG'. Disband would be a better word.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 29, 2011, 12:45:00 PM
Is anyone else getting the Vote FG banner at the top of the gaaboard?
Yes. Me.
I'm getting "Penis reductions, too big then come to us". Obviously these adds are tailored to each individual user.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 29, 2011, 03:16:23 PM
I'm getting "Penis reductions, too big then come to us". Obviously these adds are tailored to each individual user.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8fITzlPgA0
Quote from: hardstation on January 29, 2011, 01:35:23 AM
Can I call on every Irishman to vote for any party who wasn't in power while you were bleeding your own country dry?
Another Brit trying to tell us what to do ::) I suppose you`ll be complaining at the cost of the bail out to the British tax payer. Do you pay tax?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 29, 2011, 03:16:23 PM
I'm getting "Penis reductions, too big then come to us". Obviously these adds are tailored to each individual user.
Are they saying you're a massive c**k?
:P
Quote from: Galwaybhoy on January 29, 2011, 11:11:33 AMHowever the party you vote in to office could have serious repercussions on your life.
Luckily in Ireland we don't have that problem, whoever is voted in will have fcuk all influcence over how the country is governed (as Hardstation just alluded to).
Tomorrow's Sunday Business Post/Red C polling results:
[Result from last Red C poll, for Paddy Power and published Jan 7, in square brackets]
(Result from last similar SBP poll, from Dec 19, in round brackets)
Fine Gael: 33 [35] (34)
Labour: 21 [21] (23)
Fianna Fáil: 16 [14] (17)
Sinn Féin: 13 [14] (14)
Green Party: 2 [4] (2)
Ind / others: 15 [12] (10)
Tomorrow's Sunday Independent/Millward Brown polling results:
(Result from last similar poll, conducted for TV3 and released on Sept 23, in brackets)
Fine Gael: 34 (30)
Labour: 24 (35)
Fianna Fáil: 16 (22)
Sinn Féin: 10 (4)
Green Party: 1 (2)
Ind / others: 15 (8)
SBP / RedC for Taoiseach: Micheal Martin 31%, Eamon Gilmore 26%, Enda Kenny 19%
That's sombre reading for Eamon Gilmore's supporters. Cannot say I'm surprised at all though.
At this stage I suspect Labour are scared of their lives that FG mightn't need them to form a Govt . :o
FF are talking about backing a minority FG govt , which I believe is a tactic to get Blueshirt voters to transfer to the FFers.
Meanwhile Labour could lose lots of potential seats to SF and various shades of lefties.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 29, 2011, 10:14:56 PM
FF are talking about backing a minority FG govt , which I believe is a tactic to get Blueshirt voters to transfer to the FFers.
There are no depths to which that venal shower will not descend to get (and retain) their grubby mitts on power.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 28, 2011, 02:31:54 PM
Actually we're off track here as my seat will be in Dun Laoghaire - not Longford/Westmeath.
So local issues here only.
any corporation who wants to do business here signs a contract guarenteeing (sp) their employees wages and yax payments for a set time. their corp. tax is slightly lower to encourage them to work here. If at any stage they decide to pack up and leave, they have to buy out their contract, ie pay their employees the remaining wages for the year as well as the redundency money and also the tax they would have paid if fully operational. Means the country is not suddenly stripped of a big tax paying company which puts in a lot of money and employs a lot of people without having time to find a replacement or at least try to find one. No company will join if they think they won't make it but companies who are successful and are not in danger will be drawn to the lower tax rate. Sort of win win. Basically the same idea that if a football club were going to buy a player they would have to buy out their contract so the selling club would not be out of pocket on them. Feel free to rip this idea to shreds if it makes no sense but its an idea and you can never have too many of those. Plus I might be a little drunk
Happened to be listenig to the radio this morning and anyone who thinks there will be much chance of change will be disappointed.
The "Academia" revolution has died a death, with Fintan o Toole, Dunphy etc. have pulled the plug on their plans, citing timelines and family sacrifices as their downfall.
Morning Ireland did a vox pop around Cork/ Limerick this morning, and the main topics were "potholes and local jobs". Also a lot of "sure they are all the same, not going to vote" etc. I really do dispair.
But the prize of the day goes to Mattie mc Grath and his supporters in Tipperary on the Pat Kenny show, i genuinely thought it was Pat Short pulling the piss, I nearly crashed the car with rage. Gombeen men and women of the highest order, "let them do what they want in Dublin, but who is going to tar me road and keep the local school open, its Mattie thats who. Shure we never get anything down here except for what Mattie gets us and so on and so on, no mention of IMF, Banks, unemployment, taxation.I'm sure its a picture repeated all over the country.
All politics are local, write FF off at your peril. Depressing all round.
QuoteDepressing all round
Meanwhile back in the real world
http://www.thejournal.ie/woman-died-of-hypothermia-in-flat-after-council-refused-to-fix-heating-2011-1/
Mattie McGrath is two ends of a bollox.
But is anyone surprised. We deserve these cnuts cos we elect them. Great man for the 'finerals' and sorting out the auld medical card and widow's pinshin. Has been know to call bank staff to berate them over foreclosing on constituent's bad loans.
A complete goon who will top the poll.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 31, 2011, 11:17:41 AM
Happened to be listenig to the radio this morning and anyone who thinks there will be much chance of change will be disappointed.
The "Academia" revolution has died a death, with Fintan o Toole, Dunphy etc. have pulled the plug on their plans, citing timelines and family sacrifices as their downfall.
Morning Ireland did a vox pop around Cork/ Limerick this morning, and the main topics were "potholes and local jobs". Also a lot of "sure they are all the same, not going to vote" etc. I really do dispair.
But the prize of the day goes to Mattie mc Grath and his supporters in Tipperary on the Pat Kenny show, i genuinely thought it was Pat Short pulling the piss, I nearly crashed the car with rage. Gombeen men and women of the highest order, "let them do what they want in Dublin, but who is going to tar me road and keep the local school open, its Mattie thats who. Shure we never get anything down here except for what Mattie gets us and so on and so on, no mention of IMF, Banks, unemployment, taxation.I'm sure its a picture repeated all over the country.
All politics are local, write FF off at your peril. Depressing all round.
Just on that, I heard a bit of that from Limerick as well, and I did hear something new, something that I think will be replicated around the country. I heard the lads in Carew Park who had voted Fianna Fáil all their lives saying they were not going to vote Fianna Fáil this time around. They weren't too sure who they *were* going to vote for, but they were unanimous in the fact that FF could stay away from their doors.
I think that's something different.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 31, 2011, 11:45:18 AM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 31, 2011, 11:17:41 AM
Happened to be listenig to the radio this morning and anyone who thinks there will be much chance of change will be disappointed.
The "Academia" revolution has died a death, with Fintan o Toole, Dunphy etc. have pulled the plug on their plans, citing timelines and family sacrifices as their downfall.
Morning Ireland did a vox pop around Cork/ Limerick this morning, and the main topics were "potholes and local jobs". Also a lot of "sure they are all the same, not going to vote" etc. I really do dispair.
But the prize of the day goes to Mattie mc Grath and his supporters in Tipperary on the Pat Kenny show, i genuinely thought it was Pat Short pulling the piss, I nearly crashed the car with rage. Gombeen men and women of the highest order, "let them do what they want in Dublin, but who is going to tar me road and keep the local school open, its Mattie thats who. Shure we never get anything down here except for what Mattie gets us and so on and so on, no mention of IMF, Banks, unemployment, taxation.I'm sure its a picture repeated all over the country.
All politics are local, write FF off at your peril. Depressing all round.
Just on that, I heard a bit of that from Limerick as well, and I did hear something new, something that I think will be replicated around the country. I heard the lads in Carew Park who had voted Fianna Fáil all their lives saying they were not going to vote Fianna Fáil this time around. They weren't too sure who they *were* going to vote for, but they were unanimous in the fact that FF could stay away from their doors.
I think that's something different.
I am wondering will this start off a generation of FG/ LAB or whoever voters, who will vote along party lines instead of a candidates' ability and the cycle will be repeated over again and again. I suppose our system tends towards this type of voting.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 31, 2011, 11:45:18 AM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 31, 2011, 11:17:41 AM
Happened to be listenig to the radio this morning and anyone who thinks there will be much chance of change will be disappointed.
The "Academia" revolution has died a death, with Fintan o Toole, Dunphy etc. have pulled the plug on their plans, citing timelines and family sacrifices as their downfall.
Morning Ireland did a vox pop around Cork/ Limerick this morning, and the main topics were "potholes and local jobs". Also a lot of "sure they are all the same, not going to vote" etc. I really do dispair.
But the prize of the day goes to Mattie mc Grath and his supporters in Tipperary on the Pat Kenny show, i genuinely thought it was Pat Short pulling the piss, I nearly crashed the car with rage. Gombeen men and women of the highest order, "let them do what they want in Dublin, but who is going to tar me road and keep the local school open, its Mattie thats who. Shure we never get anything down here except for what Mattie gets us and so on and so on, no mention of IMF, Banks, unemployment, taxation.I'm sure its a picture repeated all over the country.
All politics are local, write FF off at your peril. Depressing all round.
Just on that, I heard a bit of that from Limerick as well, and I did hear something new, something that I think will be replicated around the country. I heard the lads in Carew Park who had voted Fianna Fáil all their lives saying they were not going to vote Fianna Fáil this time around. They weren't too sure who they *were* going to vote for, but they were unanimous in the fact that FF could stay away from their doors.
I think that's something different.
It's easy to say that you won't vote Fianna Fáil when you're talking to a radio researcher who will tut tut to themselves and look down on you for suggesting that you're going to vote that way. It's another thing to engage your brain and do the right thing in a ballot box when a century of conditioning has told you that you vote Fianna Fáil even as they set fire to your house.
I'll believe things are different when we vote differently - not when we tell pollsters differently.
Can't believe it, O'Toole, Dunphy et al were all set to save the country but "ah sorry lads the elections too early, I have too many things on this month to be running for government."
Maybe its not that important to them after all :-\
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2011, 12:42:05 PM
Can't believe it, O'Toole, Dunphy et al were all set to save the country but "ah sorry lads the elections too early, I have too many things on this month to be running for government."
Maybe its not that important to them after all :-\
Yeah, read O'Toole's column in The Irish Times on Saturday - very poor of them. Reckoned they wouldn't have time to mobilise with the date being brought forward. Which is just rubbish, given the 'new media' platforms available. I reckon they could have had someone elected in any constituency they ran in - and probably would have picked up votes from people who would/will otherwise stay at home.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2011, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2011, 12:42:05 PM
Can't believe it, O'Toole, Dunphy et al were all set to save the country but "ah sorry lads the elections too early, I have too many things on this month to be running for government."
Maybe its not that important to them after all :-\
Yeah, read O'Toole's column in The Irish Times on Saturday - very poor of them. Reckoned they wouldn't have time to mobilise with the date being brought forward. Which is just rubbish, given the 'new media' platforms available. I reckon they could have had someone elected in any constituency they ran in - and probably would have picked up votes from people who would/will otherwise stay at home.
No doubt the time available problem is really a cash available problem.
They may have been hoping to raise funds from donors but there is very few of them and very little time to find them. Of course relying on political donations to get elected to perform political reform may have been hypocritical anyway.
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2011, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2011, 12:42:05 PM
Can't believe it, O'Toole, Dunphy et al were all set to save the country but "ah sorry lads the elections too early, I have too many things on this month to be running for government."
Maybe its not that important to them after all :-\
Yeah, read O'Toole's column in The Irish Times on Saturday - very poor of them. Reckoned they wouldn't have time to mobilise with the date being brought forward. Which is just rubbish, given the 'new media' platforms available. I reckon they could have had someone elected in any constituency they ran in - and probably would have picked up votes from people who would/will otherwise stay at home.
No doubt the time available problem is really a cash available problem.
They may have been hoping to raise funds from donors but there is very few of them and very little time to find them. Of course relying on political donations to get elected to perform political reform may have been hypocritical anyway.
I may be mistaken, but I thought i had read that they had significant donations pledged already - and i'd imagine they could have raised a lot more from individuals - small amounts from large numbers of individuals - than any of the other parties.
How much cash would they have needed, i wonder?
Brian Cowen has announced on Midlands Radio 103 that he is not running in Laois Offaly.
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2011, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2011, 12:42:05 PM
Can't believe it, O'Toole, Dunphy et al were all set to save the country but "ah sorry lads the elections too early, I have too many things on this month to be running for government."
Maybe its not that important to them after all :-\
Yeah, read O'Toole's column in The Irish Times on Saturday - very poor of them. Reckoned they wouldn't have time to mobilise with the date being brought forward. Which is just rubbish, given the 'new media' platforms available. I reckon they could have had someone elected in any constituency they ran in - and probably would have picked up votes from people who would/will otherwise stay at home.
The chattering classes never do anything other than talk ( sh1te mainly) :D
Cowen not running!
http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan (http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan)
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:12:05 PM
Cowen not running!
http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan (http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan)
Right on the ball there muppet!
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2011, 08:16:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:12:05 PM
Cowen not running!
http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan (http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan)
Right on the ball there muppet!
Got it from p.ie.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 31, 2011, 07:36:34 PM
Brian Cowen has announced on Midlands Radio 103 that he is not running in Laois Offaly.
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:12:05 PM
Cowen not running!
http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan (http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan)
Good man AZ
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 31, 2011, 08:39:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 31, 2011, 07:36:34 PM
Brian Cowen has announced on Midlands Radio 103 that he is not running in Laois Offaly.
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:12:05 PM
Cowen not running!
http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan (http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan)
Good man AZ
Ah feck it. That'll might be the only time Midland Radio beats (bates?) Twitter.
What would happen if the Irish people came out in their masses and voted people who might actually make a difference and change things for the better?? Possibly the Independents out there who dont want to vote FF, FG or Labour and who want rid of the chroneys in Irish politics, the guys who are in there for all the trappings of a TD and the big pension to follow?? If the Indo's made up the majority, who would be the Taoiseach?
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 31, 2011, 09:22:00 PM
What would happen if the Irish people came out in their masses and voted people who might actually make a difference and change things for the better?? Possibly the Independents out there who dont want to vote FF, FG or Labour and who want rid of the chroneys in Irish politics, the guys who are in there for all the trappings of a TD and the big pension to follow?? If the Indo's made up the majority, who would be the Taoiseach?
Michael Healy-Rae.
Sad thing is I can't tell if you are being serious or taking the Mick. Sure no-one can understand that blathering idiot.... Suppose that didn't stop the last man getting the job :-\
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 31, 2011, 09:22:00 PM
What would happen if the Irish people came out in their masses and voted people who might actually make a difference and change things for the better?? Possibly the Independents out there who dont want to vote FF, FG or Labour and who want rid of the chroneys in Irish politics, the guys who are in there for all the trappings of a TD and the big pension to follow?? If the Indo's made up the majority, who would be the Taoiseach?
Independents? It would be worse than the current situation. They'd all be spending their time sorting the roads and medical cards for the own constituencies whilst the country continues to fly down the plan.
Here is the man for you! www.mcguirk.eu
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2011, 12:42:05 PM
Can't believe it, O'Toole, Dunphy et al were all set to save the country but "ah sorry lads the elections too early, I have too many things on this month to be running for government."
Maybe its not that important to them after all :-\
While this seems disappointing at 1st glance,if they couldn't organise this then they proably shouldn't be in power.
A simple step would be for Enda Kenny instead of abolishing the Seanad, actually appointing 11 intelligent independent people who could represent the country in the Seanad even if it meant legislation was voted against.
Has this happened something like once in the last 60 years?
Quote from: Orangemac on January 31, 2011, 11:23:42 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2011, 12:42:05 PM
Can't believe it, O'Toole, Dunphy et al were all set to save the country but "ah sorry lads the elections too early, I have too many things on this month to be running for government."
Maybe its not that important to them after all :-\
While this seems disappointing at 1st glance,if they couldn't organise this then they proably shouldn't be in power.
A simple step would be for Enda Kenny instead of abolishing the Seanad, actually appointing 11 intelligent independent people who could represent the country in the Seanad even if it meant legislation was voted against.
Has this happened something like once in the last 60 years?
the problem with the seanad wasn't that it existed or that it cost too much (it didn't really), it was how it was made up. Senators are voted on by county councillors, very few voted by the universities (anachronistic to say the least) and the balance were taoiseach's appointees, in other words rewards by Ahern et al to people he knew or wanted to keep quiet (Ivor Callelly for example, why was he a taoiseach's choice I wonder?). Of course the wonderfully moral greens, who whilst anti corruption etc were more than happy to have Bertie appoint Dan Boyle and some other lady (De Burca?) as a reward for the joining their coalition too. So Enda will appoint 11 other people (12 I think), but they will be unlikely to be intelligent and they will most certainly not be independent.
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 31, 2011, 11:20:25 PM
Here is the man for you! www.mcguirk.eu
Have never heard of him. But as I won't have a vote, it makes no difference.
Had a quick look at the website though and the idea that an independent, or even a group of independents, could "Renegotiate the IMF/EU bailout" seems a bit far fetched.
Also, unless I missed it, I can't see any real 'bio' on the site. What are his credentials?
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 31, 2011, 11:11:56 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on January 31, 2011, 09:22:00 PM
What would happen if the Irish people came out in their masses and voted people who might actually make a difference and change things for the better?? Possibly the Independents out there who dont want to vote FF, FG or Labour and who want rid of the chroneys in Irish politics, the guys who are in there for all the trappings of a TD and the big pension to follow?? If the Indo's made up the majority, who would be the Taoiseach?
Independents? It would be worse than the current situation. They'd all be spending their time sorting the roads and medical cards for the own constituencies whilst the country continues to fly down the plan.
that depends on the quality of the independent and what that person's aims are, if it's simply to be re-elected then you're right, but, I don't see how that is in any worse than what we will have should
any of our current parties take power.
I will not vote for an established party, I may not vote at all, but I'd love to see people of the calibre of Paul Somerville get elected, someone who understands finance at a level above most of us. I wouldn't want Dunphy or O'Toole there tbh, what expertise would they have to negotiate with the IMF? The two of them, whilst entertaining, talk an awful amount of shite.
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:45:15 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 31, 2011, 08:39:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 31, 2011, 07:36:34 PM
Brian Cowen has announced on Midlands Radio 103 that he is not running in Laois Offaly.
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:12:05 PM
Cowen not running!
http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan (http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan)
Good man AZ
Ah feck it. That'll might be the only time Midland Radio beats (bates?) Twitter.
Sure Twitter were going for the five-in-a-row.
Quote from: Hardy on February 01, 2011, 10:44:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:45:15 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 31, 2011, 08:39:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 31, 2011, 07:36:34 PM
Brian Cowen has announced on Midlands Radio 103 that he is not running in Laois Offaly.
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2011, 08:12:05 PM
Cowen not running!
http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan (http://twitter.com/#!/who_to_follow/search/votewhelan)
Good man AZ
Ah feck it. That'll might be the only time Midland Radio beats (bates?) Twitter.
Sure Twitter were going for the five-in-a-row.
Midland probably did a push in the back too, not dat we are sour grapes or anythin like dat.
Held their ground you mean. And what do you mean 'we?'
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 01, 2011, 11:03:02 AM
Held their ground you mean. And what do you mean 'we?'
We've been lifelong twitter supporters for all of our lives. (never mind dat it only stated in 2006). Three times my father brought me to Old Twitter to see them in action.
Final minutes of the 30th Dail. Roll on the Election. 8)
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 01, 2011, 03:24:24 PM
Final minutes of the 30th Dail. Roll on the Election. 8)
A lot done, more to do.
Back to the standard league selection tonight with Rosicky replacing Nasri. Thought Arshavin or Bendtner would've received the nod but a strong midfield nonetheless.
Quote from: ONeill on February 01, 2011, 07:23:48 PM
Back to the standard league selection tonight with Rosicky replacing Nasri. Thought Arshavin or Bendtner would've received the nod but a strong midfield nonetheless.
Yeah but Noonan would wipe the floor with all of them. Strong cabinet none the less.
oops
Split in hairy lesbian party here in Dun Laoghaire and now running two candidates! Haven't a hope of a seat. Their action has caused me to reconsider running as a vote pact is now off the cards. Stay tuned.
Indo poll out tonight:
(Millward Browne)
FG 30 (-4)
FF 16 (No change)
LAB 21 (No change)
SF 13 (+3)
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 01, 2011, 09:16:37 PM
Indo poll out tonight:
(Millward Browne)
FG 30 (-4)
FF 16 (No change)
LAB 21 (No change)
SF 13 (+3)
Indo poll?
(http://www.virginmedia.com/images/toilet_roll400x300.jpg)
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2011, 11:10:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 01, 2011, 09:16:37 PM
Indo poll out tonight:
(Millward Browne)
FG 30 (-4)
FF 16 (No change)
LAB 21 (No change)
SF 13 (+3)
Indo poll?
(http://www.virginmedia.com/images/toilet_roll400x300.jpg)
Probably slightly more accurate than the current gaaboard poll though:
FF 24 (15%)
FG 34 (21.3%)
LAB 11 (6.9%)
SF 57 (35.6%)
Others 9 (5.6%)
Greens 3 (1.9%)
Not going to Vote 22 (13.8%)
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2011, 11:10:59 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 01, 2011, 09:16:37 PM
Indo poll out tonight:
(Millward Browne)
FG 30 (-4)
FF 16 (No change)
LAB 21 (No change)
SF 13 (+3)
Indo poll?
(http://www.virginmedia.com/images/toilet_roll400x300.jpg)
We'll see muppet, but I think fine gaels leadership is going to cost them badly. Ignore and deny it all you want, but the general populace do not really want Enda to be the next taoiseach. You can say it's media spin, but if it has worked and people do not want him. If FG had a more palatable leader they'd be hitting 40%.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 01, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
We'll see muppet, but I think fine gaels leadership is going to cost them badly. Ignore and deny it all you want, but the general populace do not really want Enda to be the next taoiseach. You can say it's media spin, but if it has worked and people do not want him. If FG had a more palatable leader they'd be hitting 40%.
If they somehow make Gilmore Taoiseach I'd expect a very rapid default (latest 2013). They wanted €1.5 less cuts in the budget and were highly unlikely to deliver even that (imagine a left party cutting PS pay, pensions and welfare). Then we would have another election quickly afterwards. Yes Kenny would be gone by then but maybe that's what needs to happen.
Like it or not the only route to recovery, short of striking oil, is massive public spending cuts. There is a chance none of the parties have the balls or even cop to deliver the cuts but the only two likely to try are FF and FG. And there is only one choice there.
That daft thing about the media/country wanting strong leaders, who rule their parties with an iron fist, is that it almost always leads to disaster. Haughey? Ahern?? Cowen???
Thatcher???? Is that what we need?
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2011, 11:52:29 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 01, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
We'll see muppet, but I think fine gaels leadership is going to cost them badly. Ignore and deny it all you want, but the general populace do not really want Enda to be the next taoiseach. You can say it's media spin, but if it has worked and people do not want him. If FG had a more palatable leader they'd be hitting 40%.
If they somehow make Gilmore Taoiseach I'd expect a very rapid default (latest 2013). They wanted €1.5 less cuts in the budget and were highly unlikely to deliver even that (imagine a left party cutting PS pay, pensions and welfare). Then we would have another election quickly afterwards. Yes Kenny would be gone by then but maybe that's what needs to happen.
Like it or not the only route to recovery, short of striking oil, is massive public spending cuts. There is a chance none of the parties have the balls or even cop to deliver the cuts but the only two likely to try are FF and FG. And there is only one choice there.
That daft thing about the media/country wanting strong leaders, who rule their parties with an iron fist, is that it almost always leads to disaster. Haughey? Ahern?? Cowen???
Thatcher???? Is that what we need?
Personally, I don't want any of them, not Kenny, not Gilmore, not Adams, not Gormley (did I need to include him there?) and not Martin (see Gormley comment).
Kenny may even be the best of that bunch, as for all the talk of cuts in spending and tax increases etc, it's all irrelevant bollocks imo. The small beer of the exchequer deficit can be looked at after the default next November or December, there's little point in pretending that we can keep come up with a plan until that elephant has been run out of the room.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 02, 2011, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2011, 11:52:29 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 01, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
We'll see muppet, but I think fine gaels leadership is going to cost them badly. Ignore and deny it all you want, but the general populace do not really want Enda to be the next taoiseach. You can say it's media spin, but if it has worked and people do not want him. If FG had a more palatable leader they'd be hitting 40%.
If they somehow make Gilmore Taoiseach I'd expect a very rapid default (latest 2013). They wanted €1.5 less cuts in the budget and were highly unlikely to deliver even that (imagine a left party cutting PS pay, pensions and welfare). Then we would have another election quickly afterwards. Yes Kenny would be gone by then but maybe that's what needs to happen.
Like it or not the only route to recovery, short of striking oil, is massive public spending cuts. There is a chance none of the parties have the balls or even cop to deliver the cuts but the only two likely to try are FF and FG. And there is only one choice there.
That daft thing about the media/country wanting strong leaders, who rule their parties with an iron fist, is that it almost always leads to disaster. Haughey? Ahern?? Cowen???
Thatcher???? Is that what we need?
Personally, I don't want any of them, not Kenny, not Gilmore, not Adams, not Gormley (did I need to include him there?) and not Martin (see Gormley comment).
Kenny may even be the best of that bunch, as for all the talk of cuts in spending and tax increases etc, it's all irrelevant bollocks imo. The small beer of the exchequer deficit can be looked at after the default next November or December, there's little point in pretending that we can keep come up with a plan until that elephant has been run out of the room.
I said 2013 because I'm accused of being pessimistic. ;D
Did you see the article on the €50 Billion Central Bank emergency loans to the wonderful banks? Have the markets factored this in yet?????
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2011, 12:09:41 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 02, 2011, 12:06:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2011, 11:52:29 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 01, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
We'll see muppet, but I think fine gaels leadership is going to cost them badly. Ignore and deny it all you want, but the general populace do not really want Enda to be the next taoiseach. You can say it's media spin, but if it has worked and people do not want him. If FG had a more palatable leader they'd be hitting 40%.
If they somehow make Gilmore Taoiseach I'd expect a very rapid default (latest 2013). They wanted €1.5 less cuts in the budget and were highly unlikely to deliver even that (imagine a left party cutting PS pay, pensions and welfare). Then we would have another election quickly afterwards. Yes Kenny would be gone by then but maybe that's what needs to happen.
Like it or not the only route to recovery, short of striking oil, is massive public spending cuts. There is a chance none of the parties have the balls or even cop to deliver the cuts but the only two likely to try are FF and FG. And there is only one choice there.
That daft thing about the media/country wanting strong leaders, who rule their parties with an iron fist, is that it almost always leads to disaster. Haughey? Ahern?? Cowen???
Thatcher???? Is that what we need?
Personally, I don't want any of them, not Kenny, not Gilmore, not Adams, not Gormley (did I need to include him there?) and not Martin (see Gormley comment).
Kenny may even be the best of that bunch, as for all the talk of cuts in spending and tax increases etc, it's all irrelevant bollocks imo. The small beer of the exchequer deficit can be looked at after the default next November or December, there's little point in pretending that we can keep come up with a plan until that elephant has been run out of the room.
I said 2013 because I'm accused of being pessimistic. ;D
Did you see the article on the €50 Billion Central Bank emergency loans to the wonderful banks? Have the markets factored this in yet?????
Haven't seen it yet, there's a fair bt i want to read on here, particularly that property pin stuff on the guarantee - no time just yet.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 02, 2011, 12:14:40 AM
Haven't seen it yet, there's a fair bt i want to read on here, particularly that property pin stuff on the guarantee - no time just yet.
Put simply (for my simple brain) the EU wont cover it. If is outside the guarantee it amounts to 25% of CB assets and that could mean they (CB) are insolvent. If it is covered by the guarantee or the Government are otherwise liable, then it goes on the National Debt and we all could be insolvent. The SBP could get no info from the CB.
http://www.sbpost.ie/themarket/50-billion-in-loans-puts-solvency-risk-on-central-bank-54176.html (http://www.sbpost.ie/themarket/50-billion-in-loans-puts-solvency-risk-on-central-bank-54176.html)
GE 2011 is irrelevant because we are FUBARED. Default looks more and more inevitable yet everyone is happy to put their fingers in their ears and mumble incoherently.
For the first time I am contemplating not voting
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 01, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
We'll see muppet, but I think fine gaels leadership is going to cost them badly. Ignore and deny it all you want, but the general populace do not really want Enda to be the next taoiseach. You can say it's media spin, but if it has worked and people do not want him. If FG had a more palatable leader they'd be hitting 40%.
I think there is a degree here of comparing the free scoring corner forward who can't get the ball unless it's played in with a ribbon on it to the good all round ball winning forward who never chips in more than a point or two. Mark Vaughan vs Paul Galvin, if you will.
Kenny doesn't have buckets of charisma, and I know firsthand how a huge number of voters in this country don't like him and yet can't put their finger on why, (Mam at home is a terror for it) but you say that FG would be on 40% with a different leader - I would flip that around and say that if they had a different leader, there is every chance that they never would have recovered from the drubbing in 2002 in the first place.
Kenny might not be a great debater or orator, but he does make good solid points in the Dáil without grandstanding, and he has built up a good party with capable people in most areas. Michael Noonan, Richard Bruton, James Reilly, Alan Shatter and Jimmy Deenihan are universally respected, while their younger generation is a bit more hit and miss but there still is a lot of vibrancy there. I'm not talking about mouthpieces like Coveney and Creighton, but Kieran O'Donnell, Damien English, Leo Varadkar, Brian Hayes and even Denis Naughton or John Deasy are all politicians who I would be happy to give a shot at cabinet.
I think he's got the right idea - captaining the team doesn't mean that you play midfield, take all the frees and try to mark the opposition dangerman as well. You delegate and trust your team.
Quote from: Declan on February 02, 2011, 08:17:08 AM
GE 2011 is irrelevant because we are FUBARED. Default looks more and more inevitable yet everyone is happy to put their fingers in their ears and mumble incoherently.
For the first time I am contemplating not voting
If the country was going into receivership tomorrow, there's surely merit to at least voting for somebody, if only to send the message that you want a certain type of governance in the future, if and when we do ever get our sovereignty back?
LS -In my heart of hearts I know that I will probably vote but I really despair when I hear what passes for debate
Latest poll results:
Paddy Power Red C poll: FG 37% (+4), FF 18% (+2), Lab 19% (-2%), SF 12% (-1%), Grn 3%, Ind 11% (-4%)
FF don't appear to be going anywhere going by these polls...
Big differences between the Indo/MRBI poll and the Paddy Power/Red C one.
FG at 30% in one and 37% in the other. Just goes to show they should all be viewed with a healthy dose of scepticism.
It's the trends over a series of polls that matter, rather than the swings from one poll to the next.
It seems FG are well on course to lead the next govt, most likely with Lab.
FF haven't got as much of a bounce as they would have expected from Martin's election as leader. The Irish electorate have shown themselves to have very short memories in the past, but not short enough for FF this time around :)
Quote from: Banana Man on February 02, 2011, 10:39:16 AM
FF don't appear to be going anywhere going by these polls...
Don't forget though, going by these polls, they were on 14% not too long ago. They have grown in support over the last two Red C polls if i'm not mistaken. Looks like a lot of people have awful short memories. I'd be worried that this will continue to creep upwards over the next three weeks. Seems that since they got a new leader and Cowan stood down, some folks see this as a new FF! Nothing new...they're still the same decietful, rotten liars and hypocrites they were >:(
Two very differing posts we just put up there Tubberman haha
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 02, 2011, 11:04:27 AM
Two very differing posts we just put up there Tubberman haha
People should treat us like polls - not to be taken too seriously :D
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 02, 2011, 11:03:53 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on February 02, 2011, 10:39:16 AM
FF don't appear to be going anywhere going by these polls...
Don't forget though, going by these polls, they were on 14% not too long ago. They have grown in support over the last two Red C polls if i'm not mistaken. Looks like a lot of people have awful short memories. I'd be worried that this will continue to creep upwards over the next three weeks. Seems that since they got a new leader and Cowan stood down, some folks see this as a new FF! Nothing new...they're still the same decietful, rotten liars and hypocrites they were >:(
Thats the best I ever seen. Gerry Adams to this day claims he was never in the IRA. Sinn Fein claiming to be a republican party yet they run the queens/British administration in Northern Ireland. Keep it up Nallystand your giving me a great laugh! :D
Quote from: Tubberman on February 02, 2011, 11:10:27 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 02, 2011, 11:04:27 AM
Two very differing posts we just put up there Tubberman haha
People should treat us like polls - not to be taken too seriously :D
True!! :D
Seems Labour have locked away Joan Burton for the moment. Which is a good thing.
Jesus, that woman drives me demented.
If Gilmore comes to my door I'll tell him he has my number 1 if, when he gets into cabinet, that they appoint Burton junior minister for Tasmanian affairs, which involves moving to the feckin place.
Has anyone a good link for the runners and riders in the various constituencies. I found this one http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm (http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm) but I'm wondering if there's one where you can predict the results. It'd be an interesting debate/competition coming up to the election. See how close we are here.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 12:16:24 PM
Has anyone a good link for the runners and riders in the various constituencies. I found this one http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm (http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm) but I'm wondering if there's one where you can predict the results. It'd be an interesting debate/competition coming up to the election. See how close we are here.
Amazing list on that site. Of FF TDs elected in the last GE 22 of them are not standing this time. When you throw in those that will inevitably lose their seats this time that will be some turnover.
Back to the issues of Kenny's poor public performances (and Adam's if you are that way inclined). Why do we believe the media and think we need a cross between Billy Connolly and Tony Blair?
Look at Liam Mulvihill former Director General of the Gaa. He did his work behind the scenes without courting attention (compare with the various FAI heads). No national debates, daily press releases or photoshoots opening supermarkets as Lenihan and Harney seem to be forever doing. I'm sure with so many Gaa posters here there will be some who have had issues with Mulvihill, but imho they would be few and far between.
While I accept that a Taoiseach and Senior Ministers can't simply stay out of the public eye completely, Prime Time, Vincent Brown etc are simply vehicles for people who can shout loudly and sound like they are saying something. Hardly the basis for selecting people to run a country whose financial crisis is only beginning and will be studied worldwide for a century.
I accept that muppet, but surely a potential taoiseach should be able to calmly articulate their vision, and their party's vision, for the country and for the future without resorting to clichés, foostering and avoiding the questions.
Kenny appears to want to say nothing, ever, and wants to just look statesmanlike. I think he needs to reassure the country that he is a bright, capable, intelligent, articulate man. I've heard he is all of those things, so let the country see it.
I think picking on him because he doesn't know the ins and outs off all the policy positions is OTT, but he needs to show he has a firm grasp of the basics, and as I said, the general direction he wants to take the country.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 01:27:35 PM
I accept that muppet, but surely a potential taoiseach should be able to calmly articulate their vision, and their party's vision, for the country and for the future without resorting to clichés, foostering and avoiding the questions.
Kenny appears to want to say nothing, ever, and wants to just look statesmanlike. I think he needs to reassure the country that he is a bright, capable, intelligent, articulate man. I've heard he is all of those things, so let the country see it.
I think picking on him because he doesn't know the ins and outs off all the policy positions is OTT, but he needs to show he has a firm grasp of the basics, and as I said, the general direction he wants to take the country.
TBH I think he is punch drunk after years of abuse by the IN&M. I would prefer to see him come out fighting but even if he did it would only be a stunt and would hardly prove anything with regard to his ability to sort out the banking crisis.
BTW notice how the election 'debate' consensus seems to have decided that 'the issue is jobs'. No it isn't. It is solvency. Everything else including jobs comes after that. Party strategists announcing 'job creation' by various policies are like announcing new recipes for potatoes during the famine.
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2011, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 01:27:35 PM
I accept that muppet, but surely a potential taoiseach should be able to calmly articulate their vision, and their party's vision, for the country and for the future without resorting to clichés, foostering and avoiding the questions.
Kenny appears to want to say nothing, ever, and wants to just look statesmanlike. I think he needs to reassure the country that he is a bright, capable, intelligent, articulate man. I've heard he is all of those things, so let the country see it.
I think picking on him because he doesn't know the ins and outs off all the policy positions is OTT, but he needs to show he has a firm grasp of the basics, and as I said, the general direction he wants to take the country.
TBH I think he is punch drunk after years of abuse by the IN&M. I would prefer to see him come out fighting but even if he did it would only be a stunt and would hardly prove anything with regard to his ability to sort out the banking crisis.
BTW notice how the election 'debate' consensus seems to have decided that 'the issue is jobs'. No it isn't. It is solvency. Everything else including jobs comes after that. Party strategists announcing 'job creation' by various policies are like announcing new recipes for potatoes during the famine.
These launch breifings are just like a marketing luanch. The populist issues like job creation, training etc. are what gets peoples attention. Subjects that are deeemed too technical and "Boring" are left until the second week. I know solvency is the main topic, but for the mass media and tobloids its all about jobs, jobs,jobs.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 12:16:24 PM
Has anyone a good link for the runners and riders in the various constituencies. I found this one http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm (http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm) but I'm wondering if there's one where you can predict the results. It'd be an interesting debate/competition coming up to the election. See how close we are here.
It's not complete. It only has 2 FG candidates for Cavan/Monaghan and they're actually running 4. Which seems a bit mad in itself. I assume they think they're 'guaranteed' two and think with 4 running, they can end up with 3. Seems a bit risky though.
They actually say it's not complete yet. The last day is the 9th.
Is it just me or is Eamonn Gilmore starting to look annoyingly smug at the moment
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 12:16:24 PM
Has anyone a good link for the runners and riders in the various constituencies. I found this one http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm (http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm) but I'm wondering if there's one where you can predict the results. It'd be an interesting debate/competition coming up to the election. See how close we are here.
http://fullhouse.whitebox.ie/
Excellent site AZ- I'm holding off finishing my predictions until just before the election.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 01:27:35 PM
Kenny appears to want to say nothing, ever, and wants to just look statesmanlike. I think he needs to reassure the country that he is a bright, capable, intelligent, articulate man. I've heard he is all of those things, so let the country see it.
I think picking on him because he doesn't know the ins and outs off all the policy positions is OTT, but he needs to show he has a firm grasp of the basics, and as I said, the general direction he wants to take the country.
While I would agree that he seems to be trying less hard to appear statesmanlike, it still comes across as forced. What is maybe more telling than the constant media criticism is that no previous Fine Gael govs have given him any senior ministries despite him being a TD since the mid 70s. He musn't have shone too brightly within the party.
If he can show some balls in negotiating with the E.U all doubts will quickly be forgotten. Ireland can't afford the money, they didn't borrow it. Surely a deal can be hammered out that involves senior bondholders taking a large hit. Otherwise default and hammer out a deal with the IMF alone.
Lies,Damned Lies and Statistics, are all that is being offered by FF,FG and Labour. Lies are also being employed to discredit anyone who attempts to place the truth into the debate. Not a party or factional truth, but the plain unvarnished substantiated truth, that a default on the Bank Guarantee will occur within the next 6 months. The established parties, who have brought the Country too the brink of bankruptcy, have the sheer gall to question the economic competency of those who see through their waffle, and think that by repeating this big lie loud and often they will prevail. Truth at the end of the Day will ultimately prevail, then we will see who is laughing
Quote from: Orangemac on February 03, 2011, 12:04:50 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 01:27:35 PM
Kenny appears to want to say nothing, ever, and wants to just look statesmanlike. I think he needs to reassure the country that he is a bright, capable, intelligent, articulate man. I've heard he is all of those things, so let the country see it.
I think picking on him because he doesn't know the ins and outs off all the policy positions is OTT, but he needs to show he has a firm grasp of the basics, and as I said, the general direction he wants to take the country.
While I would agree that he seems to be trying less hard to appear statesmanlike, it still comes across as forced. What is maybe more telling than the constant media criticism is that no previous Fine Gael govs have given him any senior ministries despite him being a TD since the mid 70s. He musn't have shone too brightly within the party.
If he can show some balls in negotiating with the E.U all doubts will quickly be forgotten. Ireland can't afford the money, they didn't borrow it. Surely a deal can be hammered out that involves senior bondholders taking a large hit. Otherwise default and hammer out a deal with the IMF alone.
He was Minister for Tourism and Trade from 1994 to 1997. Don't be fooled that Tourism is now part of the minister for fun brief. His predecessor was McCreevy who became Finance Minister in 1997. It derived from the Minister for Energy position of the 1980s (don't ask me how).
As I remember, there was a view in Government circles between the mid 80s and mid 90s that the 'embellishment' of the economy's GDP was dependent on a thriving Tourism 'product'. Thus the Minister for Tourism (and whatever)'s status became relatively elevated.
Quote from: barelegs on February 02, 2011, 08:25:09 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2011, 12:16:24 PM
Has anyone a good link for the runners and riders in the various constituencies. I found this one http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm (http://electionsireland.org/results/general/31stdail/candidates.cfm) but I'm wondering if there's one where you can predict the results. It'd be an interesting debate/competition coming up to the election. See how close we are here.
http://fullhouse.whitebox.ie/
Excellent site AZ- I'm holding off finishing my predictions until just before the election.
Good stuff barelegs.
Looks like another CJH wants to enter Irish politics.
I loves those mid 90s, designed by a novice using Hotmetal, websites:
http://haughtonssolicitors.com/
Fianna Fail will be back in power within 2 years - Fianna Fail - http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ff-vice-president-party-will-be-back-in-govt-in-two-years-491948.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ff-vice-president-party-will-be-back-in-govt-in-two-years-491948.html)
For the moment I intend to FG and Labour as a tactical vote to remove the traitors.
However if any party, and I mean any party, commits to banning the above organisation I will vote for them instead.
Election time is a very stressful period unless you manage to cocoon yourself.
One stressful peak was easily reached the other night when Vincent Browne managed to excel himself at being the "reader's digest" of Ireland's political punditry as he put on his best puppy face, with a picture of Brian Cowen & his family in the foreground, extolled the virtues of Brian 'the family man'.
Does it actually matter that Brian Cowen is a salt of the earth, decent and responsible man towards his own family? I would never have thought any different, but the last thing to enter my mind about a character like Quisling would be - 'did he go to church with his family every Sunday'?
I understand that this sort of Nixon/Checkers crap happens, but for it to permeate what passes for one of the most serious tv political punditry in the country, is indeed frustrating.
Watchin Primetime there - what a crowd of squabbling pillocks!. This country severely lacks decent politicians. Then Martin Ferris is asked about public sector cuts etc- he's as clueless as the rest of the shinners. Anyone who votes for SF IMO is seriously lacking in basic intelligence.
Quote from: comethekingdom on February 03, 2011, 10:14:36 PM
Watchin Primetime there - what a crowd of squabbling pillocks!. This country severely lacks decent politicians. Then Martin Ferris is asked about public sector cuts etc- he's as clueless as the rest of the shinners. Anyone who votes for SF IMO is seriously lacking in basic intelligence.
basic intelligence? was ferris speaking a foreign language? he said they would have to be cuts in public services but not in frontline services- probably in adminstration and that wages for the top brass will be capped at 100000euro sounds very straight forward imo. have you visited the sinn fein website? its all written down to give you time to absorb it..
consider this fianna fail have plunged this country into at least 50 years of hardship and emmigration and they are still pulling 20% in the opinion polls... you mentioned BASIC intelligence?
Quote from: comethekingdom on February 03, 2011, 10:14:36 PM
Watchin Primetime there - what a crowd of squabbling pillocks!. This country severely lacks decent politicians. Then Martin Ferris is asked about public sector cuts etc- he's as clueless as the rest of the shinners. Anyone who votes for SF IMO is seriously lacking in basic intelligence.
David McWilliams seems to think SF's economic proposals make "absolute sense". He must be lacking in "basic intelligence" too. No harm kingdom, but your last line of that posts smacks of pure arrogance.
As a matter of interest, on the prediction thread most people reckon the greens will get a seat, who? Sargent has to be the only one with a shout at all?
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 04, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
As a matter of interest, on the prediction thread most people reckon the greens will get a seat, who? Sargent has to be the only one with a shout at all?
That's the one I'm thinking of.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 04, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
As a matter of interest, on the prediction thread most people reckon the greens will get a seat, who? Sargent has to be the only one with a shout at all?
Not easy to say BBXV, whichever seat they pick up will be on the final count, so there'll be a few of them in that particular mix.
On the law of averages (of being in or around the reckoning for the final distributions) they should pick up at least one.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2011, 12:14:54 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 04, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
As a matter of interest, on the prediction thread most people reckon the greens will get a seat, who? Sargent has to be the only one with a shout at all?
Not easy to say BBXV, whichever seat they pick up will be on the final count, so there'll be a few of them in that particular mix.
On the law of averages (of being in or around the reckoning for the final distributions) they should pick up at least one.
I'd say Sargent will be in the mix for the last seat here in Dublin North; no telling yet if he'll get it. Can't see any of the rest of them having a chance.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2011, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: comethekingdom on February 03, 2011, 10:14:36 PM
Watchin Primetime there - what a crowd of squabbling pillocks!. This country severely lacks decent politicians. Then Martin Ferris is asked about public sector cuts etc- he's as clueless as the rest of the shinners. Anyone who votes for SF IMO is seriously lacking in basic intelligence.
David McWilliams seems to think SF's economic proposals make "absolute sense". He must be lacking in "basic intelligence" too. No harm kingdom, but your last line of that posts smacks of pure arrogance.
Where'd you see that from McWilliams NS?
Quote from: Lawrence of Knockbride on February 04, 2011, 01:27:45 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 03, 2011, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: comethekingdom on February 03, 2011, 10:14:36 PM
Watchin Primetime there - what a crowd of squabbling pillocks!. This country severely lacks decent politicians. Then Martin Ferris is asked about public sector cuts etc- he's as clueless as the rest of the shinners. Anyone who votes for SF IMO is seriously lacking in basic intelligence.
David McWilliams seems to think SF's economic proposals make "absolute sense". He must be lacking in "basic intelligence" too. No harm kingdom, but your last line of that posts smacks of pure arrogance.
Where'd you see that from McWilliams NS?
Being interviewed by Ray Darcy on TodayFM last week. There's a link somewhere on the Board to a YouTube recording of it.
Cheers Ulick.
Despicable cowardice from Indah Kinny invoking suicide as an excuse -- ducking out of a leaders' debate blaming Vincent Browne, saying that he'll never have anything to do with him after he once joked that Kenny should go into a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver (during the depths of his unpopularity). Brave man, I'm sure the leaders of the ECB and IMF are quaking at the thought of him as Taoiseach.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2011, 06:03:25 PM
Despicable cowardice from Indah Kinny invoking suicide as an excuse -- ducking out of a leaders' debate blaming Vincent Browne, saying that he'll never have anything to do with him after he once joked that Kenny should go into a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver (during the depths of his unpopularity). Brave man, I'm sure the leaders of the ECB and IMF are quaking at the thought of him as Taoiseach.
You can always watch American idol if you need a fix on that sort of thing.
Staged TV debates are to IMF bailouts what Gazza is to quantum physics.
We are going to default shortly and the people want theatre!
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2011, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2011, 06:03:25 PM
Despicable cowardice from Indah Kinny invoking suicide as an excuse -- ducking out of a leaders' debate blaming Vincent Browne, saying that he'll never have anything to do with him after he once joked that Kenny should go into a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver (during the depths of his unpopularity). Brave man, I'm sure the leaders of the ECB and IMF are quaking at the thought of him as Taoiseach.
You can always watch American idol if you need a fix on that sort of thing.
He was disastrous in the last one, and that was against one Bertie Ahern FFS.
Someone with political leadership aspirations does not evade political commentators, they confront them head on.
Once again we're reminded, as if it were needed, why Kenny is wholly unsuitable to be the premier of any political jurisdiction (with the sole exception, perhaps, of legoland).
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2011, 08:21:37 PM
We are going to default shortly and the people want theatre!
Missing the point: we need real leaders, not cowards.
It'll be interesting to see the Debate on TV3. Will Vincent Brown be taking part and what is the namen of the party he leads
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2011, 12:14:54 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 04, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
As a matter of interest, on the prediction thread most people reckon the greens will get a seat, who? Sargent has to be the only one with a shout at all?
Not easy to say BBXV, whichever seat they pick up will be on the final count, so there'll be a few of them in that particular mix.
On the law of averages (of being in or around the reckoning for the final distributions) they should pick up at least one.
I don't think they'll be in many final counts tbh, they are absolutely fcuked imo, unfortunately I see that paddypower make them only 8/13 to take no seats, i'll pass on that for the minute.
Kenny has made an awful mess of this debate thingy, blaming vincent brown gives him no credibility with anyone who fancies themselves as being interested in politics. Brown has been the best broadcaster over the past 3 years by miles, he understands what's being going on from bertie's tribunal tribulations through guarantee and onto the default inevitability. He's not been afraid to ask the tough questions, which is why so few top line politicians will go anywhere near him.
Mick Wallace just declared on Vinny that he's going to stand in Wexford. Fair play to him. Probably puts an end to SF hopes there but I'd love to see Howlin dumped out on his arse as well.
It gets considerably worse for Kenny: apparently VB apologised the day after the whiskey & gun jibe, and did so additionally in writing to FG, whereupon they (including Kenny) drew a line under it and accepted the apology. Moreover, the Broadcasting Complaints Commission subsequently exonerated Browne completely; in other words it was a complete non-issue.
Now, suddenly, Kenny is resurrecting it as a vehicle for his reluctance to engage in televised debate. Curious that this is Kenny's first public pronouncement on the very serious issue of suicide in Ireland in this campaign -- he obviously didn't think it serious enough to include in a statement of manifesto intent, or even a public utterance prior to this.
It seems too that any time he has met Browne in the pub they both socialised in (since the jibe), this was never mentioned.
He's not fit.
Remember after last election debate Mary O'Rourke saying that Bertie didn't just beat Enda, he "shkelped him!"
He did. Bertie and his party then went on to shkelp the country.
Quote from: NetNitrate on February 05, 2011, 02:48:58 AM
Remember after last election debate Mary O'Rourke saying that Bertie didn't just beat Enda, he "shkelped him!"
He did. Bertie and his party then went on to shkelp the country.
True.
So why doesn't Kenny come out now and admit/assert the truth about the uselessness of debates, instead of hiding behind a "suicide" remark?
Kenny and FG are not fit to be placed in charge of a Sweetie Shop, yet alone a Country, but the Dub4 media will continue to push the line that there is no viable alternative and a gullible electorate will buy it
Richard Bruton beating Kenny would have been a better outcome for Fine Gael in terms of electability.
Perhaps not for the internal party organisation though.
It is disappointing that Noonan is now offering a bail out for negative equity mortgage. This is a vote buying exercise, just like his plan to bail out taxi drivers and Eircom shareholders in 2002. The money just isn't there. Regardless of the wrongs that caused these situations came about, the state can't be a nanny to everybody either.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2011, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2011, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2011, 06:03:25 PM
Despicable cowardice from Indah Kinny invoking suicide as an excuse -- ducking out of a leaders' debate blaming Vincent Browne, saying that he'll never have anything to do with him after he once joked that Kenny should go into a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver (during the depths of his unpopularity). Brave man, I'm sure the leaders of the ECB and IMF are quaking at the thought of him as Taoiseach.
You can always watch American idol if you need a fix on that sort of thing.
He was disastrous in the last one, and that was against one Bertie Ahern FFS.
Someone with political leadership aspirations does not evade political commentators, they confront them head on.
Once again we're reminded, as if it were needed, why Kenny is wholly unsuitable to be the premier of any political jurisdiction (with the sole exception, perhaps, of legoland).
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2011, 08:21:37 PM
We are going to default shortly and the people want theatre!
Missing the point: we need real leaders, not cowards.
Missing the point?
Q: Why do FF only want a 3 way debate?
A: Because they are losing votes to SF and don't want them there.
Q: Why do FG want a 5 way debate?
A: They are not losing votes to SF and see it as another front for FF to have to defend.
This has nothing to with debating and everything to do with politics.
Quotewe need real leaders, not cowards.
Please contact my publicists, Hook, Line and Sinker. Sadly you are not alone.
The banks are raising the variable interest rates accelerating their (and by default our) own financial problems.
The banks are telling Noonan to shove his plan for them. (Indo reporting it as an embarrassment for Noonan - it isn't, he can say do it or I'll shut you down if he wins the election - The Indo also reported his plan to close Anglo from the job losses angle only - not the it has already bankrupted the country angle)
The banks owe another €50 Billion to our central bank that no one knows who will pick up the tab (most likely that the Irish taxpayer will)
The ECB is saying our interest rate for the bailout might go UP
But the big issue in Ireland is a f*cking debate on a 3rd rate TV channel!
I am growing increasingly convinced that this stupid country will put FF back in. That will be interpreted as the public endorsing the banking policy to date and endorsing the bailout out developers and bankers and games of golf in Druid Glen.
The reason we are bankrupt is because of the way we voted in the last two GEs. We are stupid enough to do it again.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 05, 2011, 02:52:03 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on February 05, 2011, 02:48:58 AM
Remember after last election debate Mary O'Rourke saying that Bertie didn't just beat Enda, he "shkelped him!"
He did. Bertie and his party then went on to shkelp the country.
True.
So why doesn't Kenny come out now and admit/assert the truth about the uselessness of debates, instead of hiding behind a "suicide" remark?
Well he is going to participate on two debates - one 5 way and one 3 way. There's only ever been one debate on the past and on one occasion FF (Haughey) refused to take part, and on a second occasion Bertie only agreed to participate near election day when it was too late to have a drastic effect on voting intentions. This year FF and Labour want 3 ways debates all over the place (RTE, SKY, TV3, TG4) because they are the parties with most to gain in three way debates from FG's current lead in the polls, due to the fact that the dogs in the street know Kenny is not a good tV performer. However, FF and Labour would have a lot to lose in five way dates, mostly from Sinn Fein. I think the media - rife with FFers - are running with the Kenny the coward of the county story, however. The Indo will have a field day tomorrow with this.
Quote from: NetNitrate on February 05, 2011, 03:06:36 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 05, 2011, 02:52:03 AM
Quote from: NetNitrate on February 05, 2011, 02:48:58 AM
Remember after last election debate Mary O'Rourke saying that Bertie didn't just beat Enda, he "shkelped him!"
He did. Bertie and his party then went on to shkelp the country.
True.
So why doesn't Kenny come out now and admit/assert the truth about the uselessness of debates, instead of hiding behind a "suicide" remark?
Well he is going to participate on two debates - one 5 way and one 3 way. There's only ever been one debate on the past and on one occasion FF (Haughey) refused to take part, and on a second occasion Bertie only agreed to participate near election day when it was too late to have a drastic effect on voting intentions. This year FF and Labour want 3 ways debates all over the place (RTE, SKY, TV3, TG4) because they are the parties with most to gain in three way debates from FG's current lead in the polls, due to the fact that the dogs in the street know Kenny is not a good tV performer. However, FF and Labour would have a lot to lose in five way dates, mostly from Sinn Fein. I think the media - rife with FFers - are running with the Kenny the coward of the county story, however. The Indo will have a field day tomorrow with this.[/size]
And only the Business Post there to provide another analysis/viewpoint.
O'Driscoll try, who else?
Despite some poor decision making by O'Leary but with players like Earls, Fitzgerald and Sexton we can get away with it, today.
Quote from: muppet on February 05, 2011, 03:33:29 PM
O'Driscoll try, who else?
Despite some poor decision making by O'Leary but with players like Earls, Fitzgerald and Sexton we can get away with it, today.
Not sure what it has got to do with the election.
I suppose Gordon D'Arcy is giving a very good Dick 'butterfingers' Spring impression.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 05, 2011, 03:50:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 05, 2011, 03:33:29 PM
O'Driscoll try, who else?
Despite some poor decision making by O'Leary but with players like Earls, Fitzgerald and Sexton we can get away with it, today.
Not sure what it has got to do with the election.
I suppose Gordon D'Arcy is giving a very good Dick 'butterfingers' Spring impression.
Woops, wondered where than post went.
Probably as relevant though as the crap they are talking about.
SBP/Red C tomorrow:
FG 35 (-2),
Lab 22 (+3),
FF 17 (-1),
SF 13 (+1),
Green 2 (-1),
Other 11 (n/c)
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 05, 2011, 05:56:11 PM
SBP/Red C tomorrow:
FG 35 (-2),
Lab 22 (+3),
FF 17 (-1),
SF 13 (+1),
Green 2 (-1),
Other 11 (n/c)
Stable, more of the same. Kinda beggars belief that 17% of Irish people would be so treacherous.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/opinion/04fri2.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/opinion/04fri2.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)
Now Ireland
Ireland's government becomes the first, but likely not the last, to be brought down by the shocks battering the euro. Parliament was dissolved this week, and elections are scheduled for later this month. Fianna Fail, the party that has ruled Ireland for most of its independent history, may be headed for an epochal defeat.
Voters rightly blame Fianna Fail for the reckless policies of recent years, when the "Celtic Tiger" investment boom gave way to a speculative housing bubble fed by lax regulation and cozy ties between bankers and politicians. When that bubble burst in 2008, Fianna Fail pledged more than the government could afford to rescue its banker friends. The bankers emerged nearly whole. Ireland emerged nearly broken.
The European Union provided bailout money last fall, but with austerity conditions so strict and interest rates so high that Ireland has been left with no realistic prospects for resuming growth and paying off its debts.
There are lessons that go well beyond Ireland, and Europe's leaders need to understand them before the next economy founders. They also need to look hard at the costs of the growth-choking conditions they imposed on Greece last year, at German insistence. New challenges are already on the horizon with Portugal and Spain the most vulnerable to speculative attack.
Too much austerity too soon can trap an economy in a vicious downward spiral of decline. (Congressional Republicans please take note.) Shrinking economies cannot shrink their ratios of debt to output. Only recovery programs premised on renewed growth can do that.
Ireland's debts are so large, and its interest rates so high, that it now needs 5 percent annual growth just to stay afloat. Because of the harsh austerity budgets Europe has demanded, it is generating no growth at all.
Irish opposition parties want to revisit the bailout terms. The Fine Gael party, on the center-right, wants to negotiate down the 6 percent interest rate. The Labour Party, its usual center-left ally, wants time to phase in spending cuts and tax increases. Those positions make economic sense. Creditor nations like Germany insist there can be no renegotiation. They need to think again.
At Friday's summit meeting in Brussels, European leaders must resolve to manage these crises, rather than limping along from bailout to bailout and destructive austerity program to destructive austerity program.
To restore Europe's economic health, they need to agree on a comprehensive solution to the euro-zone crisis. That will require much stronger coordination of national fiscal policies, a much larger market intervention fund, negotiated debt rescheduling and an explicit link between deficit reduction timetables and the return of economic growth. There is no more time to delay.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 05, 2011, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 05, 2011, 05:56:11 PM
SBP/Red C tomorrow:
FG 35 (-2),
Lab 22 (+3),
FF 17 (-1),
SF 13 (+1),
Green 2 (-1),
Other 11 (n/c)
Stable, more of the same. Kinda beggars belief that 17% of Irish people would be so treacherous.
Nothing surprises anymore!
On a brighter note - did any of ye see the chick for FG running in Meath - Catherine Yore - pic of her in the Indo today - fit as fcuk. She'd be getting my vote for sure !! :)
Quote from: comethekingdom on February 05, 2011, 10:12:53 PM
On a brighter note - did any of ye see the chick for FG running in Meath - Catherine Yore - pic of her in the Indo today - fit as fcuk. She'd be getting my vote for sure !! :)
Yore a dirty b'stard.
Maybe she's durty? ;)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 05, 2011, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 05, 2011, 05:56:11 PM
SBP/Red C tomorrow:
FG 35 (-2),
Lab 22 (+3),
FF 17 (-1),
SF 13 (+1),
Green 2 (-1),
Other 11 (n/c)
Stable, more of the same. Kinda beggars belief that 17% of Irish people would be so treacherous.
Completely and utterly Fine Gael's fault for not giving those 17% a decent alternative.
For fecks sake, having a political leader who's afraid of a debate, how embarrasing.
And it seems Enda and his supporters have really learnt something from FF over the last few years - the art of the ridiculous excuse (avoid the truth, deflect, change the subject)
The Irish Banks owe the world over €500,000,000,000.
Brian Lenihan decided that we are all responsible for paying off that debt. It looks likely that we will have to stump up for up to half of it and that figure is rising (possibly another €50 Billion already due to Central Bank Emergency lending).
We have less than 2,000,000 people working now. that means the total debt per worker is around €250,000 and each worker is currently committed to paying at least €100,000 back to the world's banks.
Quotethe art of the ridiculous excuse (avoid the truth, deflect, change the subject)
Well played sir, you are as good as any of them.
Quote from: muppet on February 05, 2011, 06:53:50 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/opinion/04fri2.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/opinion/04fri2.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)
Now Ireland
Ireland's government becomes the first, but likely not the last, to be brought down by the shocks battering the euro. Parliament was dissolved this week, and elections are scheduled for later this month. Fianna Fail, the party that has ruled Ireland for most of its independent history, may be headed for an epochal defeat.
Voters rightly blame Fianna Fail for the reckless policies of recent years, when the "Celtic Tiger" investment boom gave way to a speculative housing bubble fed by lax regulation and cozy ties between bankers and politicians. When that bubble burst in 2008, Fianna Fail pledged more than the government could afford to rescue its banker friends. The bankers emerged nearly whole. Ireland emerged nearly broken.
The European Union provided bailout money last fall, but with austerity conditions so strict and interest rates so high that Ireland has been left with no realistic prospects for resuming growth and paying off its debts.
There are lessons that go well beyond Ireland, and Europe's leaders need to understand them before the next economy founders. They also need to look hard at the costs of the growth-choking conditions they imposed on Greece last year, at German insistence. New challenges are already on the horizon with Portugal and Spain the most vulnerable to speculative attack.
Too much austerity too soon can trap an economy in a vicious downward spiral of decline. (Congressional Republicans please take note.) Shrinking economies cannot shrink their ratios of debt to output. Only recovery programs premised on renewed growth can do that.
Ireland's debts are so large, and its interest rates so high, that it now needs 5 percent annual growth just to stay afloat. Because of the harsh austerity budgets Europe has demanded, it is generating no growth at all.
Irish opposition parties want to revisit the bailout terms. The Fine Gael party, on the center-right, wants to negotiate down the 6 percent interest rate. The Labour Party, its usual center-left ally, wants time to phase in spending cuts and tax increases. Those positions make economic sense. Creditor nations like Germany insist there can be no renegotiation. They need to think again.
At Friday's summit meeting in Brussels, European leaders must resolve to manage these crises, rather than limping along from bailout to bailout and destructive austerity program to destructive austerity program.
To restore Europe's economic health, they need to agree on a comprehensive solution to the euro-zone crisis. That will require much stronger coordination of national fiscal policies, a much larger market intervention fund, negotiated debt rescheduling and an explicit link between deficit reduction timetables and the return of economic growth. There is no more time to delay.
great post muppet i was hoping someone would mention this article also there were bond holders interviewed (their reps) who actually sold off some of their irish debt for 50 cents on the dollar only to find that biffo made the debt good with his stupid guarantee and they lost money anyway. there needs to be a complete investigation into fainna fails relationship with the banks/developers/cronies.. and jail MUST follow the outcome if there is evidence of treachery
I would like to see Fine Gael get elected with a strong majority but every day you despair more and more of them.
Enda Kenny's pathetic performances. Promises of bailing people in neg equity, reversal of changes to tax on pensions.
More bullshit. Promises to win votes. Why not tell the truth ( I know the answer to this).
There are 2 problems and no easy answer to either.
Budget deficit of €20billion. Needs to be reduced mainly through spending. Quangos, high public sector wages etc. Unemployment needs to be brought down to 8% within 5 years.
€50 billion owed by banks needs to be reduced as not borrowed by state. Money borrowed cannot be paid in 4 years.
Quote from: Orangemac on February 07, 2011, 12:00:03 AM
I would like to see Fine Gael get elected with a strong majority but every day you despair more and more of them.
Enda Kenny's pathetic performances. Promises of bailing people in neg equity, reversal of changes to tax on pensions.
More bullshit. Promises to win votes. Why not tell the truth ( I know the answer to this).
There are 2 problems and no easy answer to either.
Budget deficit of €20billion. Needs to be reduced mainly through spending. Quangos, high public sector wages etc. Unemployment needs to be brought down to 8% within 5 years.
€50 billion owed by banks needs to be reduced as not borrowed by state. Money borrowed cannot be paid in 4 years.
The negative equity thing is populist nonsense but the pension changes recently introduced were to either force people out of pensions (and into high income tax) or to force the pensions to buy Irish Government bonds (and who the hell would want to do that?). Those measures will accelerate the pensions time-bomb we were hearing about for the last ten years and are a seriously bad idea.
Quote from: muppet on February 06, 2011, 11:52:40 AM
The Irish Banks owe the world over €500,000,000,000.
Brian Lenihan decided that we are all responsible for paying off that debt. It looks likely that we will have to stump up for up to half of it and that figure is rising (possibly another €50 Billion already due to Central Bank Emergency lending).
We have less than 2,000,000 people working now. that means the total debt per worker is around €250,000 and each worker is currently committed to paying at least €100,000 back to the world's banks.
Quotethe art of the ridiculous excuse (avoid the truth, deflect, change the subject)
Well played sir, you are as good as any of them.
You're hilarious. "Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down". (If you can show me where I used any excuse, never mind a ridiculous one I'll take my hat off to you).
FG's only vote strategy is "we havent improved one iota since we got whupped in the last election, and we certainly still have nothing even resembling a leader, but even we can't be worse than the other crowd".
With all the cards stacked in their favour, Kenny is still doing his best to make this a contest.
Quote"Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down". (If you can show me where I used any excuse, never mind a ridiculous one I'll take my hat off to you).
You refuse to deviate from the 15 year long media/FF mantra of 'blame the opposition' and you say "Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down"
Ireland is drowning in a tsunami of debt and you only want to talk about a media stunt. Two days after any debate it will be forgotten. We will still owe the world €550,000,000,000 and are currently on the hook for around 40% (and rapidly rising) of that.
Your 'blame the opposition at every opportunity' is tried and tested but this time round it is irrelevent in the face of what you have done to at least a generation.
Despite that I still predict this country is stupid enough to return Fianna Fail to power. 100 years ago we were poorer than Albania. We are nearly back there again.
I don't care if we elect Enda Kenny's talking teddy bear as Taoiseach as long as those that put us back into poverty are lynched at the polls.
Quote from: muppet on February 07, 2011, 11:46:52 AM
Quote"Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down". (If you can show me where I used any excuse, never mind a ridiculous one I'll take my hat off to you).
You refuse to deviate from the 15 year long media/FF mantra of 'blame the opposition' and you say "Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down"
Ireland is drowning in a tsunami of debt and you only want to talk about a media stunt. Two days after any debate it will be forgotten. We will still owe the world €550,000,000,000 and are currently on the hook for around 40% (and rapidly rising) of that.
Your 'blame the opposition at every opportunity' is tried and tested but this time round it is irrelevent in the face of what you have done to at least a generation.
Despite that I still predict this country is stupid enough to return Fianna Fail to power. 100 years ago we were poorer than Albania. We are nearly back there again.
I don't care if we elect Enda Kenny's talking teddy bear as Taoiseach as long as those that put us back into poverty are lynched at the polls.
FFS Muppet. We've been talking about the banks for about 2 years or more. And we'll be talking about for another decade at least!
While its clearly the most important issue, we are allowed talk about other issues too!
Even though FG supporters and in particular it seems Mayo men, really don't want to talk about the fact that his own party don't want Kenny to take part in debates because they view him as a liability. How can he argue Irelands position successfully with the IMF, Europe and the ECB if he is viewed as a liability by his party organisers when he opens his mouth in debate?
Again, I note your only party line is vote Fine Gael, because we're not Fianna Fail!
And then you say to me: ..."what you have done to at least a generation".
You think I'm a FF'er just because I think the leader of Fine Gael is useless! That's typical ;D
I was a big supporter of John Boland and Nora Owen in Dublin North against the Ray Burke machine back in the day. I'm dying to hear parties come up with good reasons to vote for them (I've heard enough of why not to vote for others).
And personally I very much enjoy leadership debates
From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?
Quote from: stephenite on February 07, 2011, 09:45:39 PM
From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?
Not far off: VB made the remark in a jocular fashion. He then immediately and subsequently apologised in writing to FG and Kenny,
both of whom accepted fully the apology at the time. And since that time Browne & Kenny have socialised in the same pub, with no mention of that incident.
So suicide has plainly been used as a vehicle of politcal evasion.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 07, 2011, 09:58:37 PM
Quote from: stephenite on February 07, 2011, 09:45:39 PM
From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?
Not far off: VB made the remark in a jocular fashion. He then immediately and subsequently apologised in writing to FG and Kenny, both of whom accepted fully the apology at the time. And since that time Browne & Kenny have socialised in the same pub, with no mention of that incident.
So suicide has plainly been used as a vehicle of politcal evasion.
Plus Vincent Browne has offered to step away from the debate but still no go.
Kenny is a f**king idiot of the highest order, all he'd have to do in any debate is continually point out where previous FF government, with current leader as a Senior minister, has landed us.
This notion of just fudging and saying nothing until election day so he can become the leader of the country shows a staggering lack of integrity and backbone
Quote from: Hound on February 07, 2011, 04:38:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 07, 2011, 11:46:52 AM
Quote"Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down". (If you can show me where I used any excuse, never mind a ridiculous one I'll take my hat off to you).
You refuse to deviate from the 15 year long media/FF mantra of 'blame the opposition' and you say "Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down"
Ireland is drowning in a tsunami of debt and you only want to talk about a media stunt. Two days after any debate it will be forgotten. We will still owe the world €550,000,000,000 and are currently on the hook for around 40% (and rapidly rising) of that.
Your 'blame the opposition at every opportunity' is tried and tested but this time round it is irrelevent in the face of what you have done to at least a generation.
Despite that I still predict this country is stupid enough to return Fianna Fail to power. 100 years ago we were poorer than Albania. We are nearly back there again.
I don't care if we elect Enda Kenny's talking teddy bear as Taoiseach as long as those that put us back into poverty are lynched at the polls.
FFS Muppet. We've been talking about the banks for about 2 years or more. And we'll be talking about for another decade at least!
What exactly is your point here? That we should or shouldn't talk about it? We are the epicentre of a financial crisis that will remove the words 'Wall Street Crash' from future comparisons.
Quote
While its clearly the most important issue, we are allowed talk about other issues too!
That being the only issue which you want to talk about which is one (not all as you misleadingly suggest) of the 3 leadership debates.
Quote
Even though FG supporters and in particular it seems Mayo men, really don't want to talk about the fact that his own party don't want Kenny to take part in debates because they view him as a liability. How can he argue Irelands position successfully with the IMF, Europe and the ECB if he is viewed as a liability by his party organisers when he opens his mouth in debate?
None of this is remotely true and betrays your loyalties. The only debate he will miss is the first one, with Vincent Brown. Kenny's row with Brown is 30 years old and while Kenny may be foolish in continuing it, Brown is the usual type of tosser that appeals to a small irreverent part of our society. There are many posters here who will defend Alex Ferguson to the hilt even though he won't do interviews with the BBC. Charlton wouldn't talk to Dunphy. George Bush only answered pre-approved questions from the media (and the 'debates' were scripted as they will be here). Obama frequently does the same. The venom of some for Kenny on this issue isn't motivated by anything other than politics.
Quote
Again, I note your only party line is vote Fine Gael, because we're not Fianna Fail!
Ironically the reverse is precisely your only party line only substitute Kenny for FG. As for me I said I will vote for
anyone that bans that organisation. Equally I would vote for anyone that renders all of FF/FG/Labour/SF/Greens type politics history. That option isn't available sadly but in the meantime a vote for FF/Greens/PD is a vote for catastrophic banking policy and a vote for economy collapsing cronyism. I will 'debate' with anyone that canvasses fro them overtly or covertly as I suspect you are doing.
Quote
And then you say to me: ..."what you have done to at least a generation".
You think I'm a FF'er just because I think the leader of Fine Gael is useless! That's typical ;D
I was a big supporter of John Boland and Nora Owen in Dublin North against the Ray Burke machine back in the day. I'm dying to hear parties come up with good reasons to vote for them (I've heard enough of why not to vote for others).
I think you are a FFer because you will only talk about how useless the only alternative to FF is. That has been the mantra for a decade and a half with Noonan and Bruton the boring.
Quote
And personally I very much enjoy leadership debates
Of course you do.
Quote from: stephenite on February 07, 2011, 10:23:03 PM
This notion of just fudging and saying nothing until election day so he can become the leader of the country shows a staggering lack of integrity and backbone
The sad thing is he will become taoiseach by doing sweet f.a. There are far more capable politicians within F.G. but somehow Kenny has seen off all comers when it comes to leadership challenges. Hopefully FG will see sense early in the new Dail and get rid of him before he does any real damage.
Cant see a FG/Labour government lasting the distance.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 08, 2011, 12:19:38 AM
Quote from: stephenite on February 07, 2011, 10:23:03 PM
This notion of just fudging and saying nothing until election day so he can become the leader of the country shows a staggering lack of integrity and backbone
The sad thing is he will become taoiseach by doing sweet f.a. There are far more capable politicians within F.G. but somehow Kenny has seen off all comers when it comes to leadership challenges. Hopefully FG will see sense early in the new Dail and get rid of him before he does any real damage.
Cant see a FG/Labour government lasting the distance.
What would you propose in its place?
I would prefer to see a one party government, even FG. Coalitions don't work, as has been proven time and again. The smaller party gives up all its principals for a seat in government. Look at the PDs, remember them and now the Greens who will probably end up with only 1 seat after the election.
They say we get the government we deserve. We don't seem to be able to make up our minds, hence all these coalitions.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 08, 2011, 12:33:17 AM
I would prefer to see a one party government, even FG. Coalitions don't work, as has been proven time and again. The smaller party gives up all its principals for a seat in government. Look at the PDs, remember them and now the Greens who will probably end up with only 1 seat after the election.
They say we get the government we deserve. We don't seem to be able to make up our minds, hence all these coalitions.
I don't think there is a hope in hell of any party getting a majority.
In that case we are left with the options of various coalitions. The most likely is FG/Labour. If we get the best of both it could be quite good even despite the damage done up to now. If we get anything it will be disastrous.
For example Labour's liking for pandering to unions (I'm a former shop steward), and high taxes to pay for it, is not going to work in the next few Governments. Meanwhile FG are going to have to do better than their traditional 'FF policies but more realistic' position and both they and Labour are going to have to impose taxes on their own normal support bases (something no party would dream of doing).
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 12:55:16 AM
(I'm a former shop steward)
I thought a beard was required to get that gig? :P
Quote from: stephenite on February 08, 2011, 01:51:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 12:55:16 AM
(I'm a former shop steward)
I thought a beard was required to get that gig? :P
You need an election to get the gig, you need a beard to keep it.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/martin-plan-backfires-as-he-clings-to-euro90000-deal-day-of-reform-pledges-2529404.html (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/martin-plan-backfires-as-he-clings-to-euro90000-deal-day-of-reform-pledges-2529404.html)
Martin plan backfires as he clings to €90,000 deal
Blow to FF leader on day of reform pledges
By Fionnan Sheahan, Aine Kerr and Fiach Kelly
Tuesday February 08 2011
NEW Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin's attempt to promote his new political reform package was overshadowed last night by his refusal to give up his €90,000 pay-off as a former minister.
He and the six remaining cabinet ministers will be paid almost €90,000 in severance payments over the next two years, even though they plan to continue as TDs.
They will get these payments to 'compensate' them for loss of ministerial salaries.
Mr Martin confirmed he will not give up these pay-ments, which Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has promised to abolish for future ministers.
The former Foreign Affairs Minister was sucker-punched by Fine Gael yesterday on the sensitive issue of cutting pay and conditions for ministers and was accused of "failing his first personal leadership test".
Additionally, just as he unveiled his plan for "fundamental, radical reform in government and politics", he also had to defend his past appointment of Celia Larkin to a state board.
After this election, former ministers will not pick up pensions if they continue as TDs.
But Mr Martin and the six remaining cabinet ministers will pick up payments of €88,745 over the next two years in goodbye money from their time in office.
"The existing severance payments stand and that's the way it will be," Mr Martin told the Irish Independent. On being asked a third time if he would take his severance payment, he replied: "Yes."
Mr Kenny, meanwhile, said his party's "radical" plan would "abolish severance pay for ministers leaving office". It would also cut the Taoiseach's and ministers' pay, reduce ministerial pensions, overhaul the expenses regime and ban corporate donations.
"Micheal Martin has spoken about reform from the moment he took over the Fianna Fail leadership and he has failed his first personal test on the matter," a Fine Gael spokesman said last night.
Mr Martin is already getting severance pay since he resigned last month.
Tanaiste Mary Coughlan and ministers Brian Lenihan, Mary Hanafin, Eamon O Cuiv, Brendan Smith and Pat Carey will also receive the payments once the new government is appointed after the election -- if they hold their seats.
Pension
If they fail to be elected, they will be automatically entitled to a ministerial and TD pension, which is often worth far more.
Former ministers receive severance payments for two years to compensate them for the loss of their ministerial salary. The payment is made on top of their TD salary of around €98,000.
Ministers who step down receive 75pc of the ministerial part of their salary for six months, 50pc for the next 12 months and 25pc for the next six months -- the equivalent of one year's ministerial salary.
Mr Martin said the severance payments being availed of by ministers are no different to the arrangements Labour leader Eamon Gilmore and Mr Kenny received "for a long, long time".
"In particular, Enda would have drawn a ministerial pension while serving as a TD for 13 years," he said.
However, Mr Martin's attempts to portray his party's proposals for political reform were yesterday contrasted with his own party's record in office.
His appointment of then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern's former partner Celia Larkin to the board of the National Consumer Agency in 2005 prompted accusations of political cronyism from the opposition.
Clear as day for anyone who thinks FF will change. Martin talking out of both sides of his mouth. If it is so clear why do I still get the sinking feeling that 20% of people in the state will still vote for them? :-[
Alastair Campbell on the 11'th hour last night, defending the Bertie Brigade. I wish he would f**k off and worry about his own country. Did Blair not do enough damage giving that sc**bag the honour of talking in the British Parliament. Utter pondweed.
Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"
Quote from: Declan on February 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
"really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"
It is depressing isn't it. Spot on political analysis.
Quote from: muppet on February 07, 2011, 11:43:56 PM
I think you are a FFer because you will only talk about how useless the only alternative to FF is. That has been the mantra for a decade and a half with Noonan and Bruton the boring.
I just told you I'm not a FFer, but you're calling me a liar because of 2 or 3 posts where I said Enda is a gobshite? You can fook right off on to my ignore list, and if you think there aren't a significant number of people who will vote FG but who also think Enda is a complete plank, then you are very much mistaken (again).
Quote from: Declan on February 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"
Its a side issue but in my experience the vast majority of canvassers haven't a clue what the party they represents policies on anything are. Now if you want to talk about the pothole in the road, the esb pole you want moved etc they'll blather on about that. Ask them about Gay rights, foreign policy on middle east or god forbid how they will get us out of the financial mess we are in you'll mostly get a blank stare. Saying that no one has come to our door yet, might be the big german shepard outside.
3d election in my own home and never had anyone call to the door canvassing. Live in a housing estate and all. Got my first election leaflet yesterday.
Quote from: stephenite on February 07, 2011, 09:45:39 PM
From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?
That's the story that is doing the rounds alright but I'd say there is a lot more to it than that. ASAIK, no one in FG as officially confirmed this.
For starters, there is much that could be lost and nothing to be gained for Enda and FG if he agrees to take part in a three way debate with Martin and Gilmore. Kenny & co. are doing grand in the polls right now and he is reluctant to cede any advantage to either of the others concerned. Martin proposed the debate, the format and the subject matter. He was in his new job as FF leader when he proposed a leaders' debate between Kenny, Gilmore and himself. He wants to debate plans for the future of the country and says he has loads of goodies to put before the electorate... he's sorry FF made a mess of things but from here on, things are going to be different. Okay; he might not have put things exactly like that but that's what he means.
FG, on the other hand, want to keep hammering away at FF's role in b ringing ruination to the country and don't take kindly to letting Martin dictate anything to them. Martin says he is very sorry for the mess his party got us into but he has nice, new shiny plans for the future and he'd like to take this opportunity to present them to the nation.
Kenny isn't falling for that one.
Gilmore wants to be regarded as a credible option as Taoiseach and he would love to mix it with the traditional big two on an equal footing. Lab may have made such noises at times in the past but the Lab leader has never got equal billing with the FF and FG leaders when potential Taoisigh were participating in debates like the proposed one tonight.
He seems to be a reasonably competent TV operator and if he does well tonight it should strengthen his hand when it comes to the inevitable coalition talks with FG after the dust has settled. It's a case of the closer Lab finishes to FG when the seats are counted, the greater leverage Lab will have when those talks begin.
Both Martin and Gilmore have their ulterior reasons for having a debate with Kenny and he has his own reasons for not giving in to their demands.
I'm surprised that FG seems prepared to completely ignore proceedings tonight and don't emphasise that Kenny has agreed to a similar debate at a time and to a format of his choosing.
The danger is that the notion that Kenny is running scared will spread and that would surely do more damage to his party's electoral chances than an unimpressive display tonight. It's hard to figure out what FG is up to but that's nothing new.
Quote from: Hound on February 08, 2011, 01:11:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 07, 2011, 11:43:56 PM
I think you are a FFer because you will only talk about how useless the only alternative to FF is. That has been the mantra for a decade and a half with Noonan and Bruton the boring.
I just told you I'm not a FFer, but you're calling me a liar because of 2 or 3 posts where I said Enda is a gobshite? You can fook right off on to my ignore list, and if you think there aren't a significant number of people who will vote FG but who also think Enda is a complete plank, then you are very much mistaken (again).
Another
ad hominem this time on me.
I still think you are an FFer due to your refusal to contribute to any issue other than the ad hominem on Kenny.
BTW I am entitled under law to think whatever I like and to whatever opinion I choose. Nowhere did I call you a liar.
Quote from: Declan on February 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
100%.
From the brightest economic minds to the likes of me and you, nobody really has clue how this mess can best be solved. Just like nobody had a clue there was mess at all until we're in the middle of it.
But its never a good idea to have one party in power for so long.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 08, 2011, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: stephenite on February 07, 2011, 09:45:39 PM
From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?
That's the story that is doing the rounds alright but I'd say there is a lot more to it than that. ASAIK, no one in FG as officially confirmed this.
Last week Kenny had said he wouldnt do the debate because there was only 3 of them and not the 5 leaders involved.
Then on Friday Kenny said he wouldnt do it with Browne because of the alcohol/gun/suicide jibe. He said this during an interview so it was broadcast by all the radio stations on Friday evening.
Then over the weekend Kenny said that he wouldnt do it even if Browne wasn't involved because the timing didnt suit!
Kenny will be participating in the other debates though, both 3-way and 5-way, so he's just come out of all this looking very silly.
I found it strange people are saying that just because Martin wants debates that its somehow his idea or he's in control. The TV companies would be doing their best to run the debates, whether Martin had said he wanted them or not.
Quote from: Hound on February 08, 2011, 02:56:57 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
100%.
From the brightest economic minds to the likes of me and you, nobody really has clue how this mess can best be solved. Just like nobody had a clue there was mess at all until we're in the middle of it.
But its never a good idea to have one party in power for so long.
Something we can agree on.
However there was discretion the night of the bank guarantee and the decision was in the hands of Lenihan and Cowen. They got it horribly wrong and need to be held accountable.
It is not fair to say the FG/Labour/SF etc would have done the same thing because we simply don't know. Their decisions whether to vote for or against the guarantee were based on ignorance of facts that are only leaking out now. They can't really be held accountable although I concede that I/was am concerned at the lack of foresight or instinct shown by them that could be seen even on a site like this within 12 hours of the guarantee.
Quote from: Hound on February 08, 2011, 03:14:37 PM
Last week Kenny had said he wouldnt do the debate because there was only 3 of them and not the 5 leaders involved.
Then on Friday Kenny said he wouldnt do it with Browne because of the alcohol/gun/suicide jibe. He said this during an interview so it was broadcast by all the radio stations on Friday evening.
Then over the weekend Kenny said that he wouldnt do it even if Browne wasn't involved because the timing didnt suit!
Kenny will be participating in the other debates though, both 3-way and 5-way, so he's just come out of all this looking very silly.
I found it strange people are saying that just because Martin wants debates that its somehow his idea or he's in control. The TV companies would be doing their best to run the debates, whether Martin had said he wanted them or not.
I wasn't aware when I wrote my last post that Kenny had actually used the jibe in question as his excuse for refusing too do the interview with Browne. There were so many developments going on simultaneously that I somehow didn't pick this up. But I do recall it now and it casts Kenny in a very bad light. Surely, someone in FG must realise the damage to Kenny's credibility and to that of his party also that has been done.
As you say, he has agreed to appear in a 3-way debate so his reasons for refusing to partake in this one seem silly. FG are riding high in the polls and Kenny has been through a previous leaders' debate—unlike his rivals so he shouldn't be unduly afraid of what they might be able to throw at him.
I think his refusal to take part tonight is based on the fact that Martin actually suggested the debate and TV3 moved in quickly to offer to televise it—it was a done deal before Kenny and FG, the leading party in the polls, had a chance to propose anything.
No matter which way you look at it, Kenny comes out badly. It's a bit like scoring an unenforced own goal.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"
Its a side issue but in my experience the vast majority of canvassers haven't a clue what the party they represents policies on anything are. Now if you want to talk about the pothole in the road, the esb pole you want moved etc they'll blather on about that. Ask them about Gay rights, foreign policy on middle east or god forbid how they will get us out of the financial mess we are in you'll mostly get a blank stare. Saying that no one has come to our door yet, might be the big german shepard outside.
... or the big Cavan jessie inside who's going to hassle them about gay rights? :-*
Quote from: Hardy on February 08, 2011, 04:26:24 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 08, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"
Its a side issue but in my experience the vast majority of canvassers haven't a clue what the party they represents policies on anything are. Now if you want to talk about the pothole in the road, the esb pole you want moved etc they'll blather on about that. Ask them about Gay rights, foreign policy on middle east or god forbid how they will get us out of the financial mess we are in you'll mostly get a blank stare. Saying that no one has come to our door yet, might be the big german shepard outside.
... or the big Cavan jessie inside who's going to hassle them about gay rights? :-*
I hear the hot topic on the doorsteps of Meath is the legalising of beastiality - any truth in that :D
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.
It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU)
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.
It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU)
If there is a 30 year history then why is Kenny saying he won't go on the show because of the suicide remark (for which Browne apologised)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0204/brownev.html
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?
I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 04:46:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.
It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU)
If there is a 30 year history then why is Kenny saying he won't go on the show because of the suicide remark (for which Browne apologised)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0204/brownev.html
I don't know, ask him yourself. All I know is that their history goes back to an out of the blue filleting Brown gave Kenny as a young TD in the early 1980s. If Kenny wants to give two fingers to a narcissist, it might not be the cleverest thing to do, but so big deal?
Before the end of the year social welfare, pensions and all public service jobs are likely to be on reduced or no pay as we default thanks to the two Brian's banking policy. How is it possible that an educated country, that knows this is coming, is ignoring it over a spat between a poor public image and a narcissist?
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:56:07 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 04:46:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.
It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU)
If there is a 30 year history then why is Kenny saying he won't go on the show because of the suicide remark (for which Browne apologised)
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0204/brownev.html
I don't know, ask him yourself. All I know is that their history goes back to an out of the blue filleting Brown gave Kenny as a young TD in the early 1980s. If Kenny wants to give two fingers to a narcissist, it might not be the cleverest thing to do, but so big deal?
Before the end of the year social welfare, pensions and all public service jobs are likely to be on reduced or no pay as we default thanks to the two Brian's banking policy. How is it possible that an educated country, that knows this is coming, is ignoring it over a spat between a poor public image and a narcissist?
Muppet, why doesn't Kenny use any platform he is offered to explain to us poor ignorant nyucks what he's going to do about preventing what you've outlined? How is it possible that an educated man doesn't see this as being to his benefit? Could it be that he has no answers, and doesn't want that exposed?
I'm not voting FF this time around, I'm begging someone to tell me why I should vote for them (FG/Lab/SF/Other).
**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation to the current incumbents.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2011, 05:00:39 PM
**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation the current incumbents.
I accept you see it as an honest broker, but there are others with the ad hominem agenda.
As for policy to prevent the default. I think it is way too late. I think they all know there is nothing that can be done other than damage limitation so. My vote is not to save the country, we are two years to late, my vote will be for any party that promises to jail those who put us here.
No party has promised that so I intend to vote FG for two reasons:
1) To vote for a party that might actually replace FF in Government after an election.
2) They are least likely to raise taxes to 60% or higher. Note I said least.
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2011, 05:00:39 PM
**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation the current incumbents.
I accept you see it as an honest broker, but there are others with the ad hominem agenda.
As for policy to prevent the default. I think it is way too late. I think they all know there is nothing that can be done other than damage limitation so. My vote is not to save the country, we are two years to late, my vote will be for any party that promises to jail those who put us here.
No party has promised that so I intend to vote FG for two reasons:
1) To vote for a party that might actually replace FF in Government after an election.
2) They are least likely to raise taxes to 60% or higher. Note I said least.
If you think FG or any other politicians will promise to jail anyone I think you're set to be disappointed. Surely there are alternatives to defaulting? How about burning the banks and letting them go to hell in a handbasket?
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2011, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 08, 2011, 05:00:39 PM
**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation the current incumbents.
I accept you see it as an honest broker, but there are others with the ad hominem agenda.
As for policy to prevent the default. I think it is way too late. I think they all know there is nothing that can be done other than damage limitation so. My vote is not to save the country, we are two years to late, my vote will be for any party that promises to jail those who put us here.
No party has promised that so I intend to vote FG for two reasons:
1) To vote for a party that might actually replace FF in Government after an election.
2) They are least likely to raise taxes to 60% or higher. Note I said least.
If you think FG or any other politicians will promise to jail anyone I think you're set to be disappointed. Surely there are alternatives to defaulting? How about burning the banks and letting them go to hell in a handbasket?
I dont think FG will jail anyone and I thought my post made that clear.
Letting the some of banks go should have been done two years ago. I even suggested that the day after the Guarantee. However the senior bondholders at that time have already been paid back using State collateral. If anyone can find a way out of that mess then they are welcome to my vote but it is not as simple as saying separate the debt. Lenihan and co have done everything they can to prevent that from happening.
Quote from: Hardy on February 08, 2011, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?
I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.
As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of
Vodka and a revolver.
If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 08, 2011, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?
I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.
As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.
If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?
Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 08, 2011, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?
I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.
As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.
If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?
Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did
And anyone could think he meant suicide. See?
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 06:54:56 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 08, 2011, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?
I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.
As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.
If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?
Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did
And anyone could think he meant suicide. See?
Which, I presume, is why he apologised.
Got my first canvas tonight from FG. Two local lads that I know so couldn't really go to town on them. I'll probably give FG a 3rd preference which is up about 10 from any previous election.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 07:31:58 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 06:54:56 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 08, 2011, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 04:36:23 PM
Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?
I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.
As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.
If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?
Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did
And anyone could think he meant suicide. See?
Which, I presume, is why he apologised.
Got my first canvas tonight from FG. Two local lads that I know so couldn't really go to town on them. I'll probably give FG a 3rd preference which is up about 10 from any previous election.
And offered to stand aside. If he thought he had a leg to stand on then surely the great self-appointed intellectual juggernaut that is Vincent Brown would have stood his ground?
Any way to watch the debate online? No TV3 up here.
The hints are slowly getting stronger and stronger:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0208/economy-business.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0208/economy-business.html)
Ireland 'needs EU help with banks'
Updated: 15:00, Tuesday, 8 February 2011
Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own.
A report from Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own.
In a report on Irish debt levels, Goodbody says there should be some form of risk-sharing with bondholders. But it adds that Ireland cannot do this on its own, and should push for a Europe-wide solution to the problem.
Goodbody says some €21 billion of bank debt should be restructured now - otherwise there will have to be a restructuring of Irish sovereign debt some time after 2014. Goodbody economist Dermot O'Leary says a new government must act urgently, as two-thirds of these bondholders are due to be repaid over the next 24 months.
Goodbody estimates the savings to the taxpayer could be around €10 billion if a 50% haircut were applied to the outstanding stock of unsecured, unguaranteed senior and subordinate bondholders.
The stockbroker believes Ireland will not reach the target of a 3% of GDP budget deficit by 2014, as foreseen under the four-year plan. Instead it believes the deficit will still be 4.3%, and the debt/GDP ratio will reach 115%.
The report also warns that reducing Ireland's debt to levels required by the EU Stability & Growth Pact could take 20 years of tight budgets, even if the targets set out for the next four years are met.
Goodbody says the costs of the banking crisis make it less likely that Ireland will be able to pay back its debts in the future. It has raised its estimate of the cost of the banking crisis to €57.5 billion or 36% of gross domestic product.
'The new Government has a small window of opportunity to convince the EU that it is in everyone's interest to implement a more comprehensive reform of the banking system, which recognises that the Irish sovereign can no longer support the burden alone,' said economist Dermot O'Leary.
Other options suggested by Goodbody are allowing the European Financial Stability Facility to directly recapitalise weak banking systems such as Ireland's or facilitate the sale of Irish banking assets through an EU-wide insurance scheme.
The Goodbody report also says a reduction in the interest rates charged under the EU/IMF bail-out is needed. It calculates that every one-point reduction saves €675m a year in interest payments.
Ireland will need more EU help to raise funds - NCB
Stockbroker NCB has said that Ireland will need further EU help after 2013 to raise funds. It says a lowering of the interest rate on EU loans would give Ireland a higher probability of weaning itself off aid by 2014.
The 'Ireland Moves Forward' report also identifies state assets that could be the first to be sold off to help the Government finances, including those in the areas of forestry, energy, networks and ports.
The report says Ireland can look forward to a two-tier jobless recovery in 2011 with exports continuing to grow but domestic demand remaining weak. It says that the country's competitiveness has improved significantly through the economic downturn.
It also points out that foreign direct investment in Ireland increased significantly last year, despite the global pot declining by 8%.
NCB says the country will be rolled into the European Stability Mechanism (ESM), the permanent EU crisis mechanism to replace the current European Financial Stability Fund.
It says a lowering of the interest rate on EU loans would give Ireland a higher probability of weaning itself off aid by 2014.
But it argues that any post-general election attempt renegotiation of the terms of the EU/IMF financial support for Ireland would lead to a deal that looks 'very similar' to the existing one.
It says the only changes would be in the exact details of how the €15 billion in budgetary corrections in coming years are achieved. However, NCB does see changes to the interest rate taken at a European level as likely in the coming months.
Today's report says the Irish banks remain reliant on the state for capital and on the ECB and Irish Central Bank for liquidity. It adds that the March stress tests will determine whether any additional capital is needed apart from the €10 billion already earmarked for the financial institutions.
NCB predicts that the National Asset Management Agency will be a major 'dictator of activity in 2011' and beyond.
NCB says the VHI, Coillte, Rosslare Port as well as energy sector assets like Bord Gáis and the ESB with generation and supply assets should be sold off ahead of network assets such as distribution and transmission.
Today's report also says there are further falls in house prices with a further 10% fall from peak levels expected.
NCB says that the Irish equity market is no longer a reflection of the Irish economy. The report notes that Irish derived profits now represent 17% of overall profit in its sample of recommended Irish shares. That compares to 36% in 2006.
It says publicly quoted food and construction companies are likely to be active acquirers of other businesses this year, while the area of renewable energy/cleantech industries continue to be an area of significant investor interest.
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 07:52:12 PM
Ireland 'needs EU help with banks'
Updated: 15:00, Tuesday, 8 February 2011
Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own.
A report from Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own...
In other words default is a certainty unless the burden is redistributed. They'll listen to the Shinners yet! :D
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 08, 2011, 08:30:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 07:52:12 PM
Ireland 'needs EU help with banks'
Updated: 15:00, Tuesday, 8 February 2011
Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own.
A report from Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own...
In other words default is a certainty unless the burden is redistributed. They'll listen to the Shinners yet! :D
A default is certain unless there is restructuring which is just a structured default.
They all know it. FF won't say it for obvious reasons and FG and Labour are afraid to say it. SF can say it because they don't expect to be in Government. Being absolutely honest if SF did get into power they would change their tune rapido (unless there are not the politicians I think they are) as a default would impact their
(southern) demographic first.
I don't think they'd go for the 'nuclear' option muppet (if they held that sway), i.e., unilateral renegotiation.
But they wouldn't be afraid to be much more forceful and forthright in putting it up to the ECB/IMF, with whom they'd play much harder ball.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 08, 2011, 08:52:34 PM
I don't think they'd go for the 'nuclear' option muppet (if they held that sway), i.e., unilateral renegotiation.
But they wouldn't be afraid to be much more forceful and forthright in putting it up to the ECB/IMF, with whom they'd play much harder ball.
I don't doubt it but I think it is so late in the day that we have very little bargaining room.
The only position to take, as I see it, is that we are a ground floor apartment of a very tall building with the rest of the EU etc the occupying floors above us. We might be in the least desirable position but we can pull the whole lot down with us. Time to make large drilling noises.
All together now 'default, default.......'.
One thing sinn fein knows about more than any party is hard negotiation.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 09:07:21 PM
One thing sinn fein knows about more than any party is hard negotiation.
Not true, they also know alot more about jailbreaks, C4, sniper rifles and punishment beatings/murders.
Quote from: trileacman on February 08, 2011, 09:14:55 PM
Not true, they also know alot more about jailbreaks, C4, sniper rifles and punishment beatings/murders.
(http://stickylearning.typepad.com/.a/6a010535c38f18970b010536c0588b970b-500pi)
Quote from: trileacman on February 08, 2011, 09:14:55 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 09:07:21 PM
One thing sinn fein knows about more than any party is hard negotiation.
Not true, they also know alot more about jailbreaks, C4, sniper rifles and punishment beatings/murders.
Read what you wrote again, it doesn't make sense.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 09:25:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 08, 2011, 09:14:55 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 08, 2011, 09:07:21 PM
One thing sinn fein knows about more than any party is hard negotiation.
Not true, they also know alot more about jailbreaks, C4, sniper rifles and punishment beatings/murders.
Read what you wrote again, it doesn't make sense.
Sorry misread your post, thought you said the only thing.
Things are getting bleaker by the day .How did the debate go .Not that it really matters in the long run
"He's allowed to pose as if a Fianna Fáil mammy found him under a cabbage recently and introduced him blinkinly in amazement to an evil world" (Joe Higgins on Micheál Martin)
Quote of the campaign so far! :D
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2011, 11:17:39 PM
"He's allowed to pose as if a Fianna Fáil mammy found him under a cabbage recently and introduced him blinkinly in amazement to an evil world" (Joe Higgins on Micheál Martin)
Quote of the campaign so far! :D
If Mammy found him like that she would have given him a bottle of Vodka, a revolver and put her Brian under the cabbage.
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 11:22:53 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2011, 11:17:39 PM
"He's allowed to pose as if a Fianna Fáil mammy found him under a cabbage recently and introduced him blinkinly in amazement to an evil world" (Joe Higgins on Micheál Martin)
Quote of the campaign so far! :D
If Mammy found him like that she would have given him a bottle of Vodka, a revolver and put her Brian under the cabbage.
What about de brother??
Quote from: johnpower on February 08, 2011, 10:07:35 PM
Things are getting bleaker by the day .How did the debate go .Not that it really matters in the long run
It was a very good debate. The time really flew by and you'd hardly have known Browne was there because he had to make so few interventions.
Martin stuttered a few times in his opening statement, but performed really well after that. He put Gilmore on the back foot for much of the first half of the debate. But when Gilmore got going he performed very well too.
Martin edged it overall, but for me it was more proof that both men are head and shoulders above their predecessors.
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2011, 08:06:48 AM
Quote from: johnpower on February 08, 2011, 10:07:35 PM
Things are getting bleaker by the day .How did the debate go .Not that it really matters in the long run
It was a very good debate. The time really flew by and you'd hardly have known Browne was there because he had to make so few interventions.
Martin stuttered a few times in his opening statement, but performed really well after that. He put Gilmore on the back foot for much of the first half of the debate. But when Gilmore got going he performed very well too.
Martin edged it overall, but for me it was more proof that both men are head and shoulders above their predecessors.
Gilmore had a couple of opportunities to get one in on Martin, but for some reason he let it go, i.e Martin's 90K pay off etc. Martin did well and Gilmore lost this one imo. At the end of the day the only ones who win are the television advertising managers.
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 09, 2011, 08:38:24 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
I thought Enda wasn't on?
He was it seems, streamed live, and from the news I'm glad I didn't watch that either.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
That'll just be you. Only an idiot would say it wasn't a decent debate or that it was boring.
Sure you can argue about what they say, but they presented themselves very well.
There were some comments alright about Gilmore missing open goals, but I dont agree with that. I don't think any of the long serving politicians can have a go at another one about proper (excessive) payments received. They're all in the same boat about having done well in the past (Ministers particularly so). What's much more important is what they'll do about it in the future.
Gilmore did have a couple of snipes about the "lousy" government we've just had, I think he also said it was the worst govt in his lifetime. But I was impressed that he didnt overdo it, and he talked more about Labour than he did about FF.
The positive for Kenny having missed it is that evereyone will now assume the other two will destroy him in the next debates. So any kind of half decent performance should get a "better than expected" reportcard.
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2011, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
That'll just be you. Only an idiot would say it wasn't a decent debate or that it was boring.
Sure you can argue about what they say, but they presented themselves very well.
There were some comments alright about Gilmore missing open goals, but I dont agree with that. I don't think any of the long serving politicians can have a go at another one about proper (excessive) payments received. They're all in the same boat about having done well in the past (Ministers particularly so). What's much more important is what they'll do about it in the future.
Gilmore did have a couple of snipes about the "lousy" government we've just had, I think he also said it was the worst govt in his lifetime. But I was impressed that he didnt overdo it, and he talked more about Labour than he did about FF.
The positive for Kenny having missed it is that evereyone will now assume the other two will destroy him in the next debates. So any kind of half decent performance should get a "better than expected" reportcard.
Agree with the Kenny comments, there won't be much pressure on him in the next debate, it could be a clever move to miss last night yet.
Is the next debate the 5 leaders? Even better for Kenny as everyone will try and get the SF leader, especially if its Adams.
I think Ó' Caoláin would do a better job and he is not the big bad bogey man that is Adams.
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2011, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
That'll just be you. Only an idiot would say it wasn't a decent debate or that it was boring.
Sure you can argue about what they say, but they presented themselves very well.
There were some comments alright about Gilmore missing open goals, but I dont agree with that. I don't think any of the long serving politicians can have a go at another one about proper (excessive) payments received. They're all in the same boat about having done well in the past (Ministers particularly so). What's much more important is what they'll do about it in the future.
That was what you think was the open goal missed. Minister severance payments?
Are you aware that as a Nation we might have a small financial problem?
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2011, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2011, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
That'll just be you. Only an idiot would say it wasn't a decent debate or that it was boring.
Sure you can argue about what they say, but they presented themselves very well.
There were some comments alright about Gilmore missing open goals, but I dont agree with that. I don't think any of the long serving politicians can have a go at another one about proper (excessive) payments received. They're all in the same boat about having done well in the past (Ministers particularly so). What's much more important is what they'll do about it in the future.
That was what you think was the open goal missed. Minister severance payments?
Are you aware that as a Nation we might have a small financial problem?
FFS Muppet, I was responding to a particular point raised by An Gaelgoir, and neither of us suggested it was the main issue, but we are allowed talk about more than the one issue. And as I said in my post, which you conveniently deleted with your selective quoting:
QuoteGilmore did have a couple of snipes about the "lousy" government we've just had, I think he also said it was the worst govt in his lifetime. But I was impressed that he didnt overdo it, and he talked more about Labour than he did about FF.
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2011, 01:13:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 09, 2011, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2011, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
That'll just be you. Only an idiot would say it wasn't a decent debate or that it was boring.
Sure you can argue about what they say, but they presented themselves very well.
There were some comments alright about Gilmore missing open goals, but I dont agree with that. I don't think any of the long serving politicians can have a go at another one about proper (excessive) payments received. They're all in the same boat about having done well in the past (Ministers particularly so). What's much more important is what they'll do about it in the future.
That was what you think was the open goal missed. Minister severance payments?
Are you aware that as a Nation we might have a small financial problem?
FFS Muppet, I was responding to a particular point raised by An Gaelgoir, and neither of us suggested it was the main issue, but we are allowed talk about more than the one issue. And as I said in my post, which you conveniently deleted with your selective quoting:
QuoteGilmore did have a couple of snipes about the "lousy" government we've just had, I think he also said it was the worst govt in his lifetime. But I was impressed that he didnt overdo it, and he talked more about Labour than he did about FF.
You are the one limiting discussion or opinion: "Only an idiot would say it wasn't a decent debate or that it was boring".
You remind me of the cartoon character with the huge anvil falling on top of him. Everyone is pointing at it, you can hear it but he never looks up.
The world is talking about our financial catastrophe, we can all hear it, but a certain cabal will do anything to take attention off it.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2011, 11:26:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 08, 2011, 11:22:53 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2011, 11:17:39 PM
"He's allowed to pose as if a Fianna Fáil mammy found him under a cabbage recently and introduced him blinkinly in amazement to an evil world" (Joe Higgins on Micheál Martin)
Quote of the campaign so far! :D
If Mammy found him like that she would have given him a bottle of Vodka, a revolver and put her Brian under the cabbage.
What about de brother??
He'd follow the vodka bottle.
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2011, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 08:31:02 AM
Anyone else fall asleep during the debate?
That'll just be you. Only an idiot would say it wasn't a decent debate or that it was boring.
Sure you can argue about what they say, but they presented themselves very well.
Well after forcing myself through the last bit that sent me to sleep and reading through posts on it on politics.ie, the general consensus appears to be that it was a snorefest.
Again the general consensus appears to be that they didn't present themselves well.
But sure they must be all idiots too, the several hundred posters.
The Fianna Fail line is that we need these debates because its a winter election and it is more difficult to go door to door, therefore the debates are the only way to engage the public.
Why is it only Fianna Fail who have a problem with going door to door, is it because they are the only party afraid to debate with the public one-to-one?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 03:07:13 PM
The Fianna Fail line is that we need these debates because its a winter election and it is more difficult to go door to door, therefore the debates are the only way to engage the public.
Why is it only Fianna Fail who have a problem with going door to door, is it because they are the only party afraid to debate with the public one-to-one?
Where did you hear that? I hadn't heard that was the reason.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 09, 2011, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2011, 03:07:13 PM
The Fianna Fail line is that we need these debates because its a winter election and it is more difficult to go door to door, therefore the debates are the only way to engage the public.
Why is it only Fianna Fail who have a problem with going door to door, is it because they are the only party afraid to debate with the public one-to-one?
Where did you hear that? I hadn't heard that was the reason.
Are you talking about my first line? If so, Mary Hanafin said it a few days back. Saw it on RTE news if I recall.
If so that's pretty stupid, but I'd expect no less from Hanafin. I doubt it's the party 'line' though. That's just way too easy for the other parties to hammer.
Lo and behold I got my first canvasser calling to door after noshows for previous elections. A Sinn Féin canvasser who really laid it on about telling the IMF and EU to "stuff it". Pleasant enough bloke who came across well (I was surprised).
Election inspiring some good t-shirts anyway.
(http://www.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Mayo_Hide__Seek_Gents_Green__51651_zoom.jpg)
Lenihan now says it would be undemocratic for him to make a decision about putting more money into the banks (or not), rofl. Didn't stop him for the last 3 years.
Tony Killeen is blogging on the FF site. the chutzpah is breathtaking
None of these positions are credible. This election has only just started and Labour have turned their backs on the difficult but correct decisions required to support recovery for Ireland. Instead they are busy fighting a street fight for extremists on the left.
The banks have rendered Ireland insolvent, Tony. There is no money in the kitty. Ireland can't recover unless the banks are taken apart and whatever is still good can be identified and put in a new vehicle that actually works.
Here is Cormac Lucey's analysis of the Plan
Consider the scale of the total fiscal adjustment required in Ireland. We had already (prior to the December budget) seen fiscal adjustments of the order of €15b. The December budget started another round of adjustments totalling the same amount.
So the total fiscal adjustment package currently envisaged for Ireland amounts to around €30b or 25% of GNP. That is a staggeringly huge adjustment. For comparison, when the UK called in the IMF in 1976, its public sector borrowing requirement (the parlance of the day) never even reached 7% of GNP.
It is the scale of the total adjustment which calls into question the political doability of Smaghi's (ECB) Plan A. Among other issues which Smaghi does not consider are:
a. the appropriateness of the Eurozone, as currently constituted, as a single currency area; or
b. the appropriateness of debt for equity swaps at our banks (as opposed to the endless replenishing of bank balance sheet holes by the public).But you won't hear any of this from Tony.
Primetime last night- Ross, Matthews, Gurdgiev and Doherty all saying the same thing re the bondholders and taxpayers paying off bankers private gambling debt - unreal stuff yet FF/FG and Lab still propagate the same old crap
It seems to me events are passing out Labour, FF & FG with even some important people in europe resigned to the fact that Ireland cannot pay this debt back. However, these 3 parties have been so adamant that they would have to that they cannot shift position now for fear of discrediting themselves. Add to that list David McWilliams and Declan Ganley as others I have heard recently saying the same thing.
Our GAA board prediction results are in for the first 4 constituencies, namely Cavan - Monaghan, Donegal North East, Donegal North West and Sligo - North Leitrim. If our results predictions are upheld it appears as if the north west is going to be very fertile ground for Sinn Féin, but slightly disappointing for Labour. FF, as expected, beaten into third.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const12.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const23.jpg)
The overall running total in terms of percentage of the Dáil is :
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally.jpg)
Good work AZ. Will be interesting to see if these stats reflect the overall results.
They are very fertile areas for SF though. And I don't think Labour are too sure of winning a seat in any of those constituencies. I think the vote will follow what will happen in each of them - with Lab and FF battling for the last seat in Donegal NW.
Very impressive AZ, are you thinking of doing any actual work between now and the election.
Useful election pullout in the Racing Post from a betting perspective.
Quote from: Boycey on February 11, 2011, 12:47:23 PM
Very impressive AZ, are you thinking of doing any actual work between now and the election.
Useful election pullout in the Racing Post from a betting perspective.
Was just looking at prices on Paddy Power and got some land to see a girl I knew in Australia is running for FG in Meath West. Catherine Yore, priced at 11/10. What do the Meath folk reckon of her chances? Surely Johnny Brady is in trouble after his attempts at 'poor me' comments this week?
AZ have you considered that many people voting in the above poll are not entitled to vote in this election.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 11, 2011, 01:58:37 PM
AZ have you considered that many people voting in the above poll are not entitled to vote in this election.
I have indeed, which is why I repeatedly say it is not a 'poll', it is a prediction. I want to see how far away the GAABoard is from reality when the votes are counted.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 11, 2011, 01:58:37 PM
AZ have you considered that many people voting in the above poll are not entitled to vote in this election.
jeysus wept - it's a prediction, leave all party allegiances at the door and predict what way you think it will pan out to see how close we are....
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 11, 2011, 01:58:37 PM
AZ have you considered that many people voting in the above poll are not entitled to vote in this election.
You would make some bookmaker... "No betting on election results unless you are eligible to vote in the election!!"
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 11, 2011, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 11, 2011, 01:58:37 PM
AZ have you considered that many people voting in the above poll are not entitled to vote in this election.
You would make some bookmaker... "No betting on election results unless you are eligible to vote in the election!!"
I`ll bet you €50 that you`ll never vote in an Irish election. ;)
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 11, 2011, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 11, 2011, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 11, 2011, 01:58:37 PM
AZ have you considered that many people voting in the above poll are not entitled to vote in this election.
You would make some bookmaker... "No betting on election results unless you are eligible to vote in the election!!"
I`ll bet you €50 that you`ll never vote in an Irish election. ;)
You wouldn't make much of a gambler then either :D
I`ll be voting in two weeks time, will you? :D
Quote from: Declan on February 11, 2011, 10:18:04 AM
Primetime last night- Ross, Matthews, Gurdgiev and Doherty all saying the same thing re the bondholders and taxpayers paying off bankers private gambling debt - unreal stuff yet FF/FG and Lab still propagate the same old crap
Peter Matthews is running for FG in Dublin South Declan. First candidate from the three major parties tell it like it is. Pearse Doherty is the first Sinn Féin candidate I would actually vote for, was very impressive last night.
AZ - Great idea on the calling it threads and nice work with the graphs, are you gonna be running polls/predictions over the weekend or will you leave it till Mon?
Quote from: All of a Sludden on February 11, 2011, 02:50:22 PM
I`ll be voting in two weeks time, will you? :D
Vote away to your heart's content.....unfortunately for you, your representative will still (most likely) be an anti-Partitionist ;D
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_foJ2edyf5BE/TUByrBhr7vI/AAAAAAAADnw/eqFBZjQ5tBU/s1600/%2527Yeah-up%2Byours%2521%2527.jpg)
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 11, 2011, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 11, 2011, 10:18:04 AM
Primetime last night- Ross, Matthews, Gurdgiev and Doherty all saying the same thing re the bondholders and taxpayers paying off bankers private gambling debt - unreal stuff yet FF/FG and Lab still propagate the same old crap
Peter Matthews is running for FG in Dublin South Declan. First candidate from the three major parties tell it like it is. Pearse Doherty is the first Sinn Féin candidate I would actually vote for, was very impressive last night.
AZ - Great idea on the calling it threads and nice work with the graphs, are you gonna be running polls/predictions over the weekend or will you leave it till Mon?
I'll start the Leinster constituencies tomorrow, and leave them up until Monday mid morning. (Probably the first 5).
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 11, 2011, 03:11:38 PM
Vote away to your heart's content.....unfortunately for you, your representative will still (most likely) be an anti-Partitionist ;D
Is the Baron of the Manor of Northstead anti partitionist?
I suppose its the one thing you and I have in common, neither of us will be voting for Gerry.
Anyone else think it might be a Fine Gael - Sinn Féin coalition?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 12, 2011, 02:34:09 PM
Anyone else think it might be a Fine Gael - Sinn Féin coalition?
Do Sinn Fein want to be the Greens?
Got canvassed by FF today!! I got the feeling they thought it was a FF supporters house they were calling to. I told them what I thought of FF, their candidate (who has pretty much hidden FF on all his posters) and their party and that they would not even get any sort of a vote. They were visibly shocked and went of in their car and didn't call into any of my neighbours :D
Do people really thick Colreavy of SF has a chance in Sligo/North Leitrim? I doubt it myself.
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 12, 2011, 02:38:45 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 12, 2011, 02:34:09 PM
Anyone else think it might be a Fine Gael - Sinn Féin coalition?
Do Sinn Fein want to be the Greens?
I think SF have more of a backbone than the Greens, if Gerry fails to get a seat in Louth, I think it could be a FG-SF govt., Labour are getting to comfy with the traitors form my liking.
SF without the Ra-heads and I think they would be acceptable partners in govt, with the Ra-bhoys I would be quite uncomfortable with that.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 12, 2011, 04:16:30 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 12, 2011, 02:38:45 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 12, 2011, 02:34:09 PM
Anyone else think it might be a Fine Gael - Sinn Féin coalition?
Do Sinn Fein want to be the Greens?
I think SF have more of a backbone than the Greens, if Gerry fails to get a seat in Louth, I think it could be a FG-SF govt., Labour are getting to comfy with the traitors form my liking.
SF without the Ra-heads and I think they would be acceptable partners in govt, with the Ra-bhoys I would be quite uncomfortable with that.
What about Ferris? Would he have to lose his seat too? Let me tell you this, Enda wants to be be taoiseach and if the only way he can do it is with the help of Gerry Adams well he will do business with him. The question is would Sinn Fein do business with FG?
Update on our predictions on the completion of the Connacht - Ulster Constituencies.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const56.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const78.jpg)
And the overall at this stage shows Fine Gael with a healthy lead, but not the strong Labour showing expected, although not really fertile labour ground I suppose
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-1.jpg)
Red C SBP 13.2:
FG 38% (+3)
Lab 20% (-2)
FF 15% (-2)
SF 10% (-3)
Ind 14% (+3)
G 3% (+1)
The Shinner element on this board are out in force on those polls. No way they'll get 19% in those four constituencies. Be amazed if they get a seat in any of them, Mayo where they might go closest. They'll do well in other parts of the country but haven't strong enough candidates in the west.
Comment picked up on politics.ie
by a poster called Stating the Obvious
"Also interesting to note that Red C have recorded the following numbers for SF at polls since Pearse Doherty's win:
16, 14, 14, 13, 14, 12, 10
Serious downward momentum here. We can forget about 20 seats if that continues. getting out of single digits would be a great day for them"
on page http://www.politics.ie/elections/151895-red-c-sbp-13-2-fine-gael-38-3-labour-20-2-fianna-fail-15-2-sinn-fein-10-3-ind-14-3-g-3-1-a-55.html (http://www.politics.ie/elections/151895-red-c-sbp-13-2-fine-gael-38-3-labour-20-2-fianna-fail-15-2-sinn-fein-10-3-ind-14-3-g-3-1-a-55.html)
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 12, 2011, 08:55:36 PM
The Shinner element on this board are out in force on those polls. No way they'll get 19% in those four constituencies. Be amazed if they get a seat in any of them, Mayo where they might go closest. They'll do well in other parts of the country but haven't strong enough candidates in the west.
It's a prediction, not a poll :D
Secondly, that pie chart is a running total of all 8 constituencies so far, including Cavan Monaghan, the two Donegals, and Sligo North Leitrim. The SF count in the 4 'West constituencies' is less that 19%. Remember the 19% is percentage of seats won in our predictions, not a voting percentage.
Leaked constituency polling : FG 70, LAB 34, FF 33, SF 13
The sooner we get a FG overall majority the better
Getting away from polls etc for a wee minute but have just heard a particularly disturbing tale about sitting Cavan/Monaghan TD Margaret Conlan, a group of local farmers after having being messed about once too often by lough eigish co op over milk prices decided to go direct to their local representative to voice their concerns & see what could be done, about 20-25 went to her house with 2 men approaching her door to ask for a meeting, not here they were told, fair enough we'll wait, mags arrives home, the 2 men approach the door again, no answer then the guards arrive to tell them all to leave the area under fear of arrest under the public order act!!
Talk about being totally disconnected from reality!! Now I know going mob handed to someones house is not really the way to go about airing your grieviances but the fact that 50% of the guys there were Fianna fail members/supporters etc they most likely thought they would get a hearing.
How wrong they were, mags having most likely dined in the presence of the great & the good that very afternoon could not be speaking to mere farmers from mid Monaghan o no, well mags the clock is ticking,she's finished.
Only watching from afar and not taking too much notice of it. What are the feelings about seats breakdown. Can FG get a clear majority? If they don't get a clear majority would the recent difficulties between FG and Labour make a coalition difficult? Given that Gilmore seems to be a more competent leader than Kenny would he be happy to be Tanaiste to him? Would Gilmore not like to have a run at it himself and partner off with another party and independents?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on February 13, 2011, 10:29:50 AM
Only watching from afar and not taking too much notice of it. What are the feelings about seats breakdown. Can FG get a clear majority? If they don't get a clear majority would the recent difficulties between FG and Labour make a coalition difficult? Given that Gilmore seems to be a more competent leader than Kenny would he be happy to be Tanaiste to him? Would Gilmore not like to have a run at it himself and partner off with another party and independents?
I think the ideal scenario would be someone getting an overall majority alright, anyone. A clear, untinged vision would be the best thing given what's possibly coming down the pipe. However, I think FG are the party most likely to have a chance, and I don't think they'll get the majority.
I think a FG/LAB coalition would not be feasible long term, as it's not a sustainable strategy to have such divergent views on things like the public sector and taxation (despite Gilmore's protestations), however I suspect it's the most likely outcome.
Another option is a FG plus Independents coalition government, with the backing of FF (on economic matters at least). That might be Kenny's preference, but of course the first wobble will mean FF will try and bring them down.
FF and LAB is an outside possibility as well, depending on the extent of FF's meltdown, but it's hard to see Labour doing well enough to take it on, and it's also as big a mismatch in policies as FG/LAB would be. Also you'd have to think there's no party in the Dail willing to enter into an arrangement with FF at this point.
I think SF would be a decent match policy wise with Labour, but they are probably still seen as too 'risque' to bring to the big table.
My prediction would be a FG led government, with the support of Independents and even FF.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on February 13, 2011, 10:29:50 AM
Only watching from afar and not taking too much notice of it. What are the feelings about seats breakdown. Can FG get a clear majority? If they don't get a clear majority would the recent difficulties between FG and Labour make a coalition difficult? Given that Gilmore seems to be a more competent leader than Kenny would he be happy to be Tanaiste to him? Would Gilmore not like to have a run at it himself and partner off with another party and independents?
How in Gods name can you think Gilmore is a more competent leader??
Has he built a strong Front Bench? No
Has he promoted his best people to high positions? No
Did he perform well in the TV debate? No
Has he run a good campaign? No
Does he delegate to experts? No
Has he developed strong policies? No
Is he good at shouting in debates and putting out one liners etc? Yes
I honestly believe centre-right policies are better than left policies to deal with this financial crisis.
Single party government would be ideal assuming that party had enough good personnel to carry it off. A mix of a centre-right party and a party from the left would be good if you got the best of both worlds (less government spending and taxes from the right while protecting workers and services by the left - but try squaring that round peg).
Either way we need a government with a decent majority as when do decide to fight bondholders and/or restructure/default the government will come under severe pressure.
http://finegael2011.com/valentine.asp
(http://static.divbyzero.nl/facepalm/doublefacepalm.jpg)
Anyone else think its ridiculous Kenny going of the meet Merkel like he already Taoiseach. Highly arrogant imo.
They are going to win the election but I don't know whether it will be as comprehensive as some might think. I don't think they will have a clear majority. While many people do not trust FF to do anything right I still don't think they trust FG either. Polls are useful but when the curtain closes on the polling booth peoples' minds waiver. I think they need around 85 odd seats to get an outright majority, is that right? That means they need a jump of around 30 seats to gain an outright majority. That's a lot of votes!
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 13, 2011, 08:06:12 PM
Anyone else think its ridiculous Kenny going of the meet Merkel like he already Taoiseach. Highly arrogant imo.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 13, 2011, 08:06:12 PM
Anyone else think its ridiculous Kenny going of the meet Merkel like he already Taoiseach. Highly arrogant imo.
Clinton, Obama, Blair, Brown and Cameron had top level talks with foreign leaders before they were elected. It is normal.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 13, 2011, 08:06:12 PM
Anyone else think its ridiculous Kenny going of the meet Merkel like he already Taoiseach. Highly arrogant imo.
No, the current Taoiseach is afraid to do so, so why not Enda.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 13, 2011, 08:06:12 PM
Anyone else think its ridiculous Kenny going of the meet Merkel like he already Taoiseach. Highly arrogant imo.
Do you think Merklel just allows anyone to rock up and meet her, do you seriously think that Enda Kenny decided that he was going to meet her? Seriously?
Quote from: stephenite on February 13, 2011, 11:58:31 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 13, 2011, 08:06:12 PM
Anyone else think its ridiculous Kenny going of the meet Merkel like he already Taoiseach. Highly arrogant imo.
Do you think Merklel just allows anyone to rock up and meet her, do you seriously think that Enda Kenny decided that he was going to meet her? Seriously?
Nail on the head.
Where did the "Mayo - Call it" thread go?
Anyway does it look like Kilcoyne has a chance for the 3rd/4th seat? I thought his stance against the GAA and with McHale road would have damaged him a bit.
Johnno could be in trouble, from what I hear at the weekend, Enda wants Mulhern ahead of him as he quietly backed Bruton that time he went for leader of the party. Also I think that JOM will lose a significant GAA vote, he hasnt done anything significant. Reckon Crowley is in trouble, cant understand how he is even a candidate for labour when he is in the labour court himself at least 3 times for refusing to pay minimum wage. Backing Rossport that time wont do him any favours either. Could spill more stories about that guy.
Kenny
Ring
Kilcoyne
Callery
Mulhern
or
Kenny
Ring
Callery
Kilcoyne
Mulhern
I delete the threads when the voting finishes. The results are in this thread, up a bit.
Quote from: AbbeySider on February 14, 2011, 10:17:38 AM
Where did the "Mayo - Call it" thread go?
Anyway does it look like Kilcoyne has a chance for the 3rd/4th seat? I thought his stance against the GAA and with McHale road would have damaged him a bit.
Johnno could be in trouble, from what I hear at the weekend, Enda wants Mulhern ahead of him as he quietly backed Bruton that time he went for leader of the party. Also I think that JOM will lose a significant GAA vote, he hasnt done anything significant. Reckon Crowley is in trouble, cant understand how he is even a candidate for labour when he is in the labour court himself at least 3 times for refusing to pay minimum wage. Backing Rossport that time wont do him any favours either. Could spill more stories about that guy.
Kenny
Ring
Kilcoyne
Callery
Mulhern
or
Kenny
Ring
Callery
Kilcoyne
Mulhern
I hope Kilcoyne gets in, I am thinking of giving him my number 1. He has a big vote in Castlebar and is originally from Louisburgh so will do well out that direction.
Also the missus' uncle is running as an Independent in Killarney and is currently topping the poll down there, so all the best to him as well.
Begining to hope the FG get enough to form a single party Govt. as the Lab. policy is now a defensive polciy with the "vote us in and we will keep FG straight" sound fimiliar? They have proved themselves to be hollow and full of hot air.
what time is the leaders debate tonight and what channel do ya's know lads?
Quote from: Banana Man on February 14, 2011, 11:19:30 AM
what time is the leaders debate tonight and what channel do ya's know lads?
It's on The Frontline. 9:35 on RTÉ 1.
Pat the Plank will be hosting it
Quote from: AbbeySider on February 14, 2011, 10:17:38 AM
Where did the "Mayo - Call it" thread go?
Anyway does it look like Kilcoyne has a chance for the 3rd/4th seat? I thought his stance against the GAA and with McHale road would have damaged him a bit.
Johnno could be in trouble, from what I hear at the weekend, Enda wants Mulhern ahead of him as he quietly backed Bruton that time he went for leader of the party. Also I think that JOM will lose a significant GAA vote, he hasnt done anything significant. Reckon Crowley is in trouble, cant understand how he is even a candidate for labour when he is in the labour court himself at least 3 times for refusing to pay minimum wage. Backing Rossport that time wont do him any favours either. Could spill more stories about that guy.
Kenny
Ring
Kilcoyne
Callery
Mulhern
or
Kenny
Ring
Callery
Kilcoyne
Mulhern
Events since 2007 probably will mean that Cowley's stance on Rossport will be seen in a better light for him now. He took a brave stand - when every other politician ran for cover. Say what you want about him outside of that, but in terms of his opposition to the government sponsored Shell drive in Erris, he at least stood up for principles. But I can't see him getting in. The Labour marriage does strike me as too much of a marriage of convenience.
I reckon Kenny will get close to two quotas, Ring will fly in. Mulherin will get the third seat, Calleary the fourth with O'Mahony and Kilcoyne and, an outside possibility, Conway-Walsh in for the last seat. If O'Mahony has enough of a lead from the benefit of Kenny's surplus then, he might not be caught. But Kilcoyne could benefit as much here. He might nick it.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 14, 2011, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on February 14, 2011, 11:19:30 AM
what time is the leaders debate tonight and what channel do ya's know lads?
It's on The Frontline. 9:35 on RTÉ 1.
Pat the Plank will be hosting it
cheers lad
The man who would be king
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5Rcc17eb8&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5Rcc17eb8&feature=player_embedded)
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 14, 2011, 01:43:20 PM
Quote from: AbbeySider on February 14, 2011, 10:17:38 AM
Where did the "Mayo - Call it" thread go?
Anyway does it look like Kilcoyne has a chance for the 3rd/4th seat? I thought his stance against the GAA and with McHale road would have damaged him a bit.
Johnno could be in trouble, from what I hear at the weekend, Enda wants Mulhern ahead of him as he quietly backed Bruton that time he went for leader of the party. Also I think that JOM will lose a significant GAA vote, he hasnt done anything significant. Reckon Crowley is in trouble, cant understand how he is even a candidate for labour when he is in the labour court himself at least 3 times for refusing to pay minimum wage. Backing Rossport that time wont do him any favours either. Could spill more stories about that guy.
Kenny
Ring
Kilcoyne
Callery
Mulhern
or
Kenny
Ring
Callery
Kilcoyne
Mulhern
Events since 2007 probably will mean that Cowley's stance on Rossport will be seen in a better light for him now. He took a brave stand - when every other politician ran for cover. Say what you want about him outside of that, but in terms of his opposition to the government sponsored Shell drive in Erris, he at least stood up for principles. But I can't see him getting in. The Labour marriage does strike me as too much of a marriage of convenience.
I reckon Kenny will get close to two quotas, Ring will fly in. Mulherin will get the third seat, Calleary the fourth with O'Mahony and Kilcoyne and, an outside possibility, Conway-Walsh in for the last seat. If O'Mahony has enough of a lead from the benefit of Kenny's surplus then, he might not be caught. But Kilcoyne could benefit as much here. He might nick it.
i think Mulherin will struggle to be honest, Kilcoyne has massive support in c/bar. The fact that Enda and Ring will do well, i bet a lot of 2s and 3s will head to Kilcoyne,especially now there is talk of maybe a "select few" independents making up the numbers of the next govt.
Quote from: Declan on February 14, 2011, 02:52:22 PM
The man who would be king
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5Rcc17eb8&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5Rcc17eb8&feature=player_embedded)
If ever there was reason for one of them facepalm yokes this is it
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 14, 2011, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: Declan on February 14, 2011, 02:52:22 PM
The man who would be king
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5Rcc17eb8&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5Rcc17eb8&feature=player_embedded)
If ever there was reason for one of them facepalm yokes this is it
Not very smart, but hardly 'racist' as some people have been saying (not on this board).
In fairness, this is even worse.
http://finegael2011.com/valentine.asp (http://finegael2011.com/valentine.asp)
Yeah, they're both fairly high on the cringe scale.
Now, nobody fall asleep. There will be a quiz afterwards.
I am still waiting for someone to say something either sensible or worthwhile... That includes Pat Kenny
QuoteThat includes Pat Kenny
Well he did say that the club was the heart of the GAA.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2011, 10:02:30 PM
QuoteThat includes Pat Kenny
Well he did say that the club was the heart of the GAA.
He said that after I posted :D
Adams doing well which suprises me. Not sure if this makes any difference to anyone
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 14, 2011, 10:11:23 PM
Adams doing well which suprises me. Not sure if this makes any difference to anyone
Agreed - far better than four years ago anyway.
375,000 jobs fro wind and wave by 2020. Really?
Quote from: gallsman on February 14, 2011, 10:14:19 PM
375,000 jobs fro wind and wave by 2020. Really?
In fairness I think he said across Europe.
Charlie McCreevy's national pension reserve must be a bottomless pot of gold - 4.9 billion according to Martin???
Gilmore going on the offensive after last week.
Gormless looks to be the odd one out with the blue tie.
Its a boring oul debate so far - no one really skelping another.
Gilmore and Enda have been pretty poor imo, the others haven't been as bad. Its been pretty poor so far.
Martin getting stuck in now.
It's all about to kick off between Martin & Adams and then the Plank goes to a break ::)
Was just thinkin there - would you be any worse off without politicians! ???
Martin feeling a tad threatened and annoyed that Gerry us putting up a decent show
Started to threaten a bit of mud slinging there til the break came to the rescue :o
Martin is a n arrogant f*ck, handing out bollockings about fraud! ::) ::) ::)
Martin seemed to buckle there!
Kenny is winning by a mile.
Quote from: Final Whistle on February 14, 2011, 10:37:27 PM
Martin is a n arrogant f*ck, handing out bollockings about fraud! ::) ::) ::)
And him coming from an outfit that would even put the italians to shame!!
Quote from: highorlow on February 14, 2011, 10:39:00 PM
Kenny is winning by a mile.
I think you are wrong there. Adams and gormley winning well imo.
Quote from: highorlow on February 14, 2011, 10:39:00 PM
Kenny is winning by a mile.
Are you sure you are watching the same channel as everyone else?
"reform the health service" ???
Were you not the Minister for Health a few years ago Micheál?
Martin now trying to butter up the HSE shambles that he himself created.
Can Fianna Fail not just disband or something after the complete Fcuk up they have made of Ireland from Charlie Haughey onwards?
Martin has some cheek standing there proud as punch
Adams has the 4 of them in his back pocket
any ground gained by martin on TV3 has well and truely been lost on RTE. IMO he is getting tossed round. Kenny (take your pic) has the charisma/personality of a door handle.
Martin is not doing well. Adams is going speaking well, but he hasn't said where he is going to get the money from as he is not going to cut anything except TDs salaries.
Gormley - he could have gone out for a pint of wheatgrass and no one would have noticed. Greens will be obselete in three weeks time.
Gilmore - much more offensive and animated than last week. Failed to land any blows though.
Kenny - had a fairly easy ride. Held himself together well and no major foot in mouth moments.
Martin - a hypocrite.
Adams - vast improvement on previous performances but fantasy economics will limit the Shinners potential gains.
adams is a cartoon character, if only mentioning the words citizen and republic in every sentence were enough to win it for him!
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 14, 2011, 11:05:17 PM
Gormley - he could have gone out for a pint of wheatgrass and no one would have noticed. Greens will be obselete in three weeks time.
Gilmore - much more offensive and animated than last week. Failed to land any blows though.
Kenny - had a fairly easy ride. Held himself together well and no major foot in mouth moments.
Martin - a hypocrite.
Adams - vast improvement on previous performances but fantasy economics will limit the Shinners potential gains.
Just caught the end of it so missed most of the action. I still dislike token leadership 'debates' and am curious whether we learned anything new tonight at all?
However sadly stunts like this may influence voters so looking comments here and at p.ie and here is it fair to read it as:
Gerry and Enda came out better than they went in
Gilmore better than last time but no great ground made
Martin had a poor night
Gormley performed adequately
Quote from: muppet on February 14, 2011, 11:12:32 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 14, 2011, 11:05:17 PM
Gormley - he could have gone out for a pint of wheatgrass and no one would have noticed. Greens will be obselete in three weeks time.
Gilmore - much more offensive and animated than last week. Failed to land any blows though.
Kenny - had a fairly easy ride. Held himself together well and no major foot in mouth moments.
Martin - a hypocrite.
Adams - vast improvement on previous performances but fantasy economics will limit the Shinners potential gains.
Just caught the end of it so missed most of the action. I still dislike token leadership 'debates' and am curious whether we learned anything new tonight at all?
However sadly stunts like this may influence voters so looking comments here and at p.ie and here is it fair to read it as:
Gerry and Enda came out better than they went in
Gilmore better than last time but no great ground made
Martin had a poor night
Gormley performed adequately
That would be a fair summation.
I doubt many voters are influenced greatly by these things. The papers will eek plenty of column inches out of it though.
Like a game where you are winning, Enda simply needed to be tidy and not drop the ball and give it to the opposition. He will be happy enough.
I thought kenny and gilmore were poor, Martin was a disaster and Adams and gormley did well in that they were able to communicate with the audience. Will it change many minds, maybe not.
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Adams - comfortably exceeded expectations in that he came across as being reasonably familiar with the system down here (unlike 2007 when he seemed clueless) and connected well to the audience, even if there was still the odd platitude.
Gilmore - better than the last night and tackled Martin on his past and Kenny on his economic projections, but then pretended he hadn't facilitated the budget when he had and was out of the debate for long periods.
Gormley - largely irrelevant. Spouting on about f***ing list systems when asked about emigration made me feel like throwing something at the TV.
Kenny - stilted as ever, reciting things that he'd learnt off, and sticking in slogans, but didn't fall over or make any major mistakes, so exceeded expectations.
Martin - Martin's problem (during this debate as well as the last) is that he has to defend what he did for the last fourteen years and being assertive about it simply pisses off an already pissed-off population. The cat fight with Adams may have lost as many votes as it won, and an aggressive debate persona loses him the sympathy vote that he got from the initial contrition when he became leader. He made a potentially good point about the potential cost of FG's health insurance scheme but no-one from this government has any credibility on the issue, so it was wasted.
All in all, a wash. It won't sway anyone who wasn't already leaning towards a particular party.
Well done Enda and Gerry. By the day I want a Fine Gael majority and if not SF partners.
Are pat and enda kenny related? Two dislikable hoors
tbh i thought martin came out of it well (sly digs aside), Gilmore was the worst by a country mile, gormley is irrelevant, Kenny surprised me, thought he was solid and Adams done what everyone in the north knows he's capable of i.e. walking it into the lads.
Someone said Adams was going on about fantasy economics there, but it couldn't be any more fantasy than the last 3 years, people like lenihan saying they are economically illiterate after his party have driven the state into the ground needs pinned on this absolute untruth
Quote from: Banana Man on February 15, 2011, 08:58:39 AM
tbh i thought martin came out of it well (sly digs aside), Gilmore was the worst by a country mile, gormley is irrelevant, Kenny surprised me, thought he was solid and Adams done what everyone in the north knows he's capable of i.e. walking it into the lads.
Someone said Adams was going on about fantasy economics there, but it couldn't be any more fantasy than the last 3 years, people like lenihan saying they are economically illiterate after his party have driven the state into the ground needs pinned on this absolute untruth
Don't agree on Martin and the main reason was his pathetic defense of the HSE and what a good job thats been done. That was the question he should have expected and he answered it very poorly imo - he should have talked about the future and avoided the past but he did the opposite and all 4 other leaders nailed the HSE for the mess it is.
I caught an hour of it, and I think I concur with SS' reading of it above.
From left to right:
Gormley, might as well have been in the audience asking the questions, and is obviously a one issue politician, but in fairness he is good on that issue. Otherwise he was like a guiet gossun standing in the corner. His plaintive 'I'm havent' had as much time as the rest of them' was heart rending.
Gilmore. I thought he was robust at least. Seemed passionate at times, but as others have said, not much in the way of telling blows apart from overplaying the Sinn Fein support of the bank guarantee, which he played like an old fiddle.
Kenny. Centre stage, and didn't do much wrong. He is *very* scripted, and very metronomic. Reciting learned lines and party slogans like ' Get Ireland Working'. However he is coming in from a position of strength, and unless he really tries to f**k it up, he should be safe enough. He didn't drop the ball last night though, and probably escaped any damage.
Martin. I thought it was a bad night for him. Came across as ultra defensive, which of course he should be, and also sort of sneaky and snide. He didn't even try, in the hour I saw, to take Kenny on at all, which is unusual for FF and FG. He seemed more worried about Sinn Fein and Labour. Running his race for second place?
Adams. I thought he 'came across' as the best of the 5. Of course an examination of the policies might be uncomfortable for him, as trying to save billions on populist measures like cutting TD's salaries seems a bit like the loaves and the fishes. His constant reiteration of the fact that the other 4 parties are supporting the EU/IMF deal was a good scorer for him, and he cleverly drew the distinction between the sovereign debt and the banking debt. Unfortunately, I think what Gerry is espousing is what most people would love to do, but do the sums add up? I am unconvinced.
All in all, for what it's worth, I'd have scored the bout as follows, from my hour. Simply on what I saw, and simply on their performance last night.
Adams 7/10
Gilmore 6/10
Kenny 6/10
Gormley 5/10 (Almost a 'not on long enough to be rated')
Martin 5/10
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Aren't you luck you aren't having to vote for them! Gormley did well? did you have a different feed to the rest of us, what did he contribute to the debate, besides sucking up to Kenny. As for Adams, he even managed to get a dig in at the DUP, wrong country there Gerry!
very little substance in what went on last night which was a shame for the people watching
I think if Gerry had his numbers right he would have been much more credible, as for the rest as possible Taoiseach's, its rather depressing, hardly any Obama-like figures amongst them.
Leaders they are not imo
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Aren't you luck you aren't having to vote for them! Gormley did well? did you have a different feed to the rest of us, what did he contribute to the debate, besides sucking up to Kenny. As for Adams, he even managed to get a dig in at the DUP, wrong country there Gerry!
thats the point gaeilgor sinn fein dont see ireland as two separate countries in the new ireland the dup are an integral part of the political scene and i think a driving force. given a choice between the duppers and what you have to choose from...
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Aren't you luck you aren't having to vote for them! Gormley did well? did you have a different feed to the rest of us, what did he contribute to the debate, besides sucking up to Kenny. As for Adams, he even managed to get a dig in at the DUP, wrong country there Gerry!
wrong country??? wrong jurisdiction maybe but not wrong country pal
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 15, 2011, 09:18:22 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on February 15, 2011, 08:58:39 AM
tbh i thought martin came out of it well (sly digs aside), Gilmore was the worst by a country mile, gormley is irrelevant, Kenny surprised me, thought he was solid and Adams done what everyone in the north knows he's capable of i.e. walking it into the lads.
Someone said Adams was going on about fantasy economics there, but it couldn't be any more fantasy than the last 3 years, people like lenihan saying they are economically illiterate after his party have driven the state into the ground needs pinned on this absolute untruth
that's a fair point myles, i had forgot that actually
Don't agree on Martin and the main reason was his pathetic defense of the HSE and what a good job thats been done. That was the question he should have expected and he answered it very poorly imo - he should have talked about the future and avoided the past but he did the opposite and all 4 other leaders nailed the HSE for the mess it is.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:30:20 AM
Of course an examination of the policies might be uncomfortable for him, as trying to save billions on populist measures like cutting TD's salaries seems a bit like the loaves and the fishes.
A close examination of their policies would be uncomfortable for
any of them. The problem is that the debate format last night didn't allow for close examination (which was especially good news for our probable next Taoiseach).
it was laughable for martin to talk about bringing in experts to help with politics ie not professional politicians. biffo and brian leno paid 4.2 million to have professional analysis of the banking crisis and then went against this expensive 'professional' advice and gave the banking guarantee. what he means is that he doesnt have a clue how to un-bankrupt ireland but if he can get some of his cronies some easy money well its all good. it must be quite a shock to fianna fail that they cant just spread the usual slurry and people will buy it. instead they are buying endas slurrie its much better ::)
It was a five-way nil-all draw after extra time and penalties. I found myself sinking further and further into the sofa with depression as I watched these clowns unable even to produce a convincing acting performance in a poorly scripted farce and the conviction grew that I can't vote for any of these people or their parties.
Leaders my arse.
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 12:01:07 AM
Adams - comfortably exceeded expectations in that he came across as being reasonably familiar with the system down here (unlike 2007 when he seemed clueless) and connected well to the audience, even if there was still the odd platitude.
Gilmore - better than the last night and tackled Martin on his past and Kenny on his economic projections, but then pretended he hadn't facilitated the budget when he had and was out of the debate for long periods.
Gormley - largely irrelevant. Spouting on about f***ing list systems when asked about emigration made me feel like throwing something at the TV.
Kenny - stilted as ever, reciting things that he'd learnt off, and sticking in slogans, but didn't fall over or make any major mistakes, so exceeded expectations.
Martin - Martin's problem (during this debate as well as the last) is that he has to defend what he did for the last fourteen years and being assertive about it simply pisses off an already pissed-off population. The cat fight with Adams may have lost as many votes as it won, and an aggressive debate persona loses him the sympathy vote that he got from the initial contrition when he became leader. He made a potentially good point about the potential cost of FG's health insurance scheme but no-one from this government has any credibility on the issue, so it was wasted.
All in all, a wash. It won't sway anyone who wasn't already leaning towards a particular party.
That's a pretty accurate assessment IMO.
I'd add that while Gerry did fairly well, he had a lot of ground to make up where his credibility is concerned. He was coming on here with a public perception that he was badly briefed on our current political situation. He goofed badly on TYV in '07 and in a radio interview earlier this year. Both of the previous interviews got widespread publicity, whereas it remains to be seen if there was enough public interest in what happened last night to dispel the notion that he's clueless. It may be a case, for him, of too little, too late.
I did a quick, makeshift vox pop this morning and found most people I spoke to had changed channels well before the end.
It was incredibly tedious with Pat Kenny the star of the show!
Quote from: Banana Man on February 15, 2011, 10:53:13 AM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Aren't you luck you aren't having to vote for them! Gormley did well? did you have a different feed to the rest of us, what did he contribute to the debate, besides sucking up to Kenny. As for Adams, he even managed to get a dig in at the DUP, wrong country there Gerry!
wrong country??? wrong jurisdiction maybe but not wrong country pal
Not to be too pedantic, but i thought the 6 counties were not part of the Republic of Ireland? pal.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 11:35:59 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on February 15, 2011, 10:53:13 AM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Aren't you luck you aren't having to vote for them! Gormley did well? did you have a different feed to the rest of us, what did he contribute to the debate, besides sucking up to Kenny. As for Adams, he even managed to get a dig in at the DUP, wrong country there Gerry!
wrong country??? wrong jurisdiction maybe but not wrong country pal
Not to be too pedantic, but i thought the 6 counties were not part of the Republic of Ireland? pal.
nice partionist attitude to have ::)
QuoteNot to be too pedantic, but i thought the 6 counties were not part of the Republic of Ireland?
Of course they are not, but the reference was to the country not the state.
Is there a Mayo campaign to reduce Ireland to 26 counties, perhaps in the hope of then winning an All-ireland?
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2011, 11:48:00 AM
QuoteNot to be too pedantic, but i thought the 6 counties were not part of the Republic of Ireland?
Of course they are not, but the reference was to the country not the state.
Is there a Mayo campaign to reduce Ireland to 26 counties, perhaps in the hope of then winning an All-ireland?
If we reduced it to ourselves and the Kilkenny football team, i still wouldn't be so sure, we would win it! The comment was about Gerry was a tongue in cheek one, i really dont care about Gerry and his policies are they are in my opinion, of no merit.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2011, 11:48:00 AM
QuoteNot to be too pedantic, but i thought the 6 counties were not part of the Republic of Ireland?
Of course they are not, but the reference was to the country not the state.
Is there a Mayo campaign to reduce Ireland to 26 counties, perhaps in the hope of then winning an All-ireland?
Wouldn't work as long as Kerry is part of the 26 counties ;)
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Aren't you luck you aren't having to vote for them! Gormley did well? did you have a different feed to the rest of us, what did he contribute to the debate, besides sucking up to Kenny. As for Adams, he even managed to get a dig in at the DUP, wrong country there Gerry!
A dig in at DUP? I read it as a dig at Fianna Fail.
As someone else said before me. A different state, but same country old boy ;)
Quote from: ziggysego on February 15, 2011, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2011, 11:50:04 PM
Gormley and Adams did well tonight. Martin made a hames of it. Gilmore did do too badly and Kenny.... too slick for my liking.
Aren't you luck you aren't having to vote for them! Gormley did well? did you have a different feed to the rest of us, what did he contribute to the debate, besides sucking up to Kenny. As for Adams, he even managed to get a dig in at the DUP, wrong country there Gerry!
exactly ziggy it was a dig at fainna fail nothing to do with the dup. gaeilgor anti nordie hat fell over his eyes/ears.
what happened last night was that martin thought that gerry was going to be easy meat and that the freestaters would gang up and send his nordie ass well kicked back over the border what he found out was that fainna fail are equally loathed to sinn fein.
A dig in at DUP? I read it as a dig at Fianna Fail.
As someone else said before me. A different state, but same country old boy ;)
Back to our predictions, which are proudly open to all 32 counties and beyond. Sinn Fein doing better in our predictions, probably to be expected, but it's noticable that FF have not collapsed in our predictions. They're currently predicted by us to win 25% of the seats. Fine Gael are hovering below an overall majority on 40% and it's Sinn Fein, on 17% of the seats, not the votes remember, who would be the biggest 'king maker' to keep the fine Gael government in power. Labour are just about doing enough at the moment, but may improve as we move into the cities like Dublin, Cork and Limerick. So far we have 52 seats predicted, so 27 would be an overall majority.
Fine Gael have 21.
Fianna Fail have 13
Sinn Fein have 9
Labour have 6
Others have 3
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-2.jpg)
Results for the first 5 Leinster Constituencies are
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const910.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const1112.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const13.jpg)
AZ, I think you will be getting a job offer soon. That is some piece of work. Well done.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:18:24 PM
AZ, I think you will be getting a job offer soon. That is some piece of work. Well done.
+1
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 10:01:21 AM
very little substance in what went on last night which was a shame for the people watching
I think if Gerry had his numbers right he would have been much more credible, as for the rest as possible Taoiseach's, its rather depressing, hardly any Obama-like figures amongst them.
Leaders they are not imo
What good has Obama done with his great speaking abilities????
Has anyone noticed that the opinion of the debate on this site and the opinion on the panel after the debate on RTE are compeltely different other than the fact that Kenny didn't do too badly? The RTE panel completely castigated Adams and heralded Martin as doing a great job. Is that to be expected of RTE? They also had Kenny as being very impressive and slick..,lets be honest he was impressive for Enda Kenny but as a leader he has as much charisma as a brown wall. He's so feckin wooden.
For the record I think Adams did pretty well (he has improved dramatically since 2007 and his interview earlier this year and at least when he was asked about VAT rates etc. in that interview he admitted he didn't know and has dome some work since then. He really still should've known) and John Gormley performed ok considering he has given up the ghost already.
Martin has a cheek to attack anyone in these debates. He really should let the others have turns with the cat of nine tails on him after 14 years of Fianna Fail failure. He really has a brass neck accusing anyone of anything. I see he's now engage in dirty trick tactics against Sinn Féin in todays press interviews. How low can you sink??? Even the DUP have relented on the issue. Sign of a man in complete desperation.
Gilmore to me is a man who really does appear competent but is not a party leader. He is much too nice in debates and lacks aggression to go after the other parties but ability wise he strikes me as the most able.
BTW Fair play to AZ Offaly, some great work there!
what was martin saying today poc? dont tell me hes at the sinn fein/ira shite that would be truely grasping for straws and could only help sinn fein
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
Aye he is wanting Gerry to come clean about his 'past'. Typical gutter politics. At the end of the day what does it mattter? He's never gonna change his stance on it now.
Gaeilgoir, I agree with you there that charisma is not the most important thing and quite often papers over cracks in ability. With that in mind if you want to go for a capable leader that lacks charisma pick Gilmore not Kenny.
I don't really think that its Kenny allowing his team to get on with it because he trusts them i think its more that his team do all the work because they don't trust him!! haha
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 15, 2011, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 10:01:21 AM
very little substance in what went on last night which was a shame for the people watching
I think if Gerry had his numbers right he would have been much more credible, as for the rest as possible Taoiseach's, its rather depressing, hardly any Obama-like figures amongst them.
Leaders they are not imo
What good has Obama done with his great speaking abilities????
VERY LITTLE. I never said he done anything but at least he had America in a tizz for a few months :P
Quote from: Poc me on February 15, 2011, 01:56:02 PM
Aye he is wanting Gerry to come clean about his 'past'. Typical gutter politics. At the end of the day what does it mattter? He's never gonna change his stance on it now.
Gaeilgoir, I agree with you there that charisma is not the most important thing and quite often papers over cracks in ability. With that in mind if you want to go for a capable leader that lacks charisma pick Gilmore not Kenny.
I don't really think that its Kenny allowing his team to get on with it because he trusts them i think its more that his team do all the work because they don't trust him!! haha
So how is Gilmore a capable leader compared to Kenny?
Which one has built a strong leadership team around him? Kenny
Which one has a party that has strong detailed policies? Kenny
Which one has built a party up from near extinction? Kenny
Which one has run a far more effective campaign? Kenny
Apart from shouting, making soundbites what has Gilmore actually done??
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 15, 2011, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 10:01:21 AM
very little substance in what went on last night which was a shame for the people watching
I think if Gerry had his numbers right he would have been much more credible, as for the rest as possible Taoiseach's, its rather depressing, hardly any Obama-like figures amongst them.
Leaders they are not imo
What good has Obama done with his great speaking abilities????
VERY LITTLE. I never said he done anything but at least he had America in a tizz for a few months :P
Well sorry but I'd sooner have someone who didn't give a toss about tizz but actually got something done
Quote from: Poc me on February 15, 2011, 01:56:02 PM
Aye he is wanting Gerry to come clean about his 'past'. Typical gutter politics. At the end of the day what does it mattter? He's never gonna change his stance on it now.
Gaeilgoir, I agree with you there that charisma is not the most important thing and quite often papers over cracks in ability. With that in mind if you want to go for a capable leader that lacks charisma pick Gilmore not Kenny.
I don't really think that its Kenny allowing his team to get on with it because he trusts them i think its more that his team do all the work because they don't trust him!! haha
We will have to ask Bruton about that one!
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
i've no doubt that enda kenny is a nice bloke. but to say charisma is not a reguirement is naive, what had michael collins to offer other than charisma and the offer of a firing squad or a tyburn collar. people are voting fine gael because they have no choice they are not AS bad as fianna fail. fine gael will not reverse one single fianna fail policy and will infact add to working class misery. turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind.
ps did anyone see 'lord' hillary son of ex president hillary canvassing for fianna fail on the news and then interviewed infront of his antique bookcase ::) i'd love that maggot to knock on my door i'd kick a new hole in his arse >:(
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 15, 2011, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 15, 2011, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 10:01:21 AM
very little substance in what went on last night which was a shame for the people watching
I think if Gerry had his numbers right he would have been much more credible, as for the rest as possible Taoiseach's, its rather depressing, hardly any Obama-like figures amongst them.
Leaders they are not imo
What good has Obama done with his great speaking abilities????
VERY LITTLE. I never said he done anything but at least he had America in a tizz for a few months :P
Well sorry but I'd sooner have someone who didn't give a toss about tizz but actually got something done
Can you honestly say any of those 5 LEADERS impressed you last night in any shape or form?
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
i've no doubt that enda kenny is a nice bloke. but to say charisma is not a reguirement is naive, what had michael collins to offer other than charisma and the offer of a firing squad or a tyburn collar. people are voting fine gael because they have no choice they are not AS bad as fianna fail. fine gael will not reverse one single fine gael policy and will infact add to working class misery. turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind.
ps did anyone see 'lord' hillary son of ex president hillary canvassing for fianna fail on the news and then interviewed infront of his antique bookcase ::) i'd love that maggot to knock on my door i'd kick a new hole in his arse >:(
How will they add to working class misery?? Any chance you could back something up with facts?
There has to be a better way than the one that has been devised by politicians both north and south and across the water have came up with of getting out of the economic situation. It really does seem like its the poor and working class getting punished for fat cats mistakes!!!!
Dubs for Sam, lets be honest Enda Kenny making Fine Gael the biggest party in this election race is hardly a challenge. IN the History of the state, FG (albeit in different guises) have always been the largest and obvious alternative to FF. When one is doing poorly the other tends to do pretty well. Its just the same in Britain with Labour and Tory. FG's policies will alsways be typical conservative policies and will change only slightly depending on the Leader.
As for Gilmore, isn't everyone simply shouting and making soundbytes in the election race?? We will have to see when they get elected as Taoiseach (which is pretty inevitable in Kenny's case) as to whether or not that have 'strong detailed policies' and a 'strong leadership team'.
The thing about Kenny is that even though FF have made a complete shag of the past 4 years his party aren't higher up in the polls than they are!!! People still won't vote for him. Maybe thats a CIvil War thing but you just have to say that most people simply do not see him as capable.
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 15, 2011, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 15, 2011, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 10:01:21 AM
very little substance in what went on last night which was a shame for the people watching
I think if Gerry had his numbers right he would have been much more credible, as for the rest as possible Taoiseach's, its rather depressing, hardly any Obama-like figures amongst them.
Leaders they are not imo
What good has Obama done with his great speaking abilities????
VERY LITTLE. I never said he done anything but at least he had America in a tizz for a few months :P
Well sorry but I'd sooner have someone who didn't give a toss about tizz but actually got something done
Can you honestly say any of those 5 LEADERS impressed you last night in any shape or form?
Didn't watch it and wouldn't watch it.....think they are a stupid concept and should have no bearing in any shape or form on voting intentions.
I look at the following facts -
1 - FG have been preaching for value for money, anti-benchmarking etc for years as well as constantly highlighting running a country on a building boom was never going to last.
2 - In Noonan, Bruton, O'Reilly, Shatter etc they have far better talent than any other party has
3 - They have detailed policies in terms of health, job creation etc that other parties don't have.
4 - They have a leader who knows his limits and leaves it to the experts in their area.
its accepting the best of a bad bunch then?
Noonan and Bruton are two coffin-dodging, sour looking cnuts that talk shite and are hardly off the telly, never mind that Leo Varadkar...
I am not a FG basher here but jeez, I just dont see the attraction with any of these politicians, Labour or the waste of time Greens either
Quote from: Poc me on February 15, 2011, 02:21:27 PM
Dubs for Sam, lets be honest Enda Kenny making Fine Gael the biggest party in this election race is hardly a challenge. IN the History of the state, FG (albeit in different guises) have always been the largest and obvious alternative to FF. When one is doing poorly the other tends to do pretty well. Its just the same in Britain with Labour and Tory. FG's policies will alsways be typical conservative policies and will change only slightly depending on the Leader.
As for Gilmore, isn't everyone simply shouting and making soundbytes in the election race?? We will have to see when they get elected as Taoiseach (which is pretty inevitable in Kenny's case) as to whether or not that have 'strong detailed policies' and a 'strong leadership team'.
The thing about Kenny is that even though FF have made a complete shag of the past 4 years his party aren't higher up in the polls than they are!!! People still won't vote for him. Maybe thats a CIvil War thing but you just have to say that most people simply do not see him as capable.
You are forgetting he made them the largest party in the European Elections in 2004, largest party in local elections in 2009, FG had 31 seats when he took over and are on track for about 75 now.
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
i've no doubt that enda kenny is a nice bloke. but to say charisma is not a reguirement is naive, what had michael collins to offer other than charisma and the offer of a firing squad or a tyburn collar. people are voting fine gael because they have no choice they are not AS bad as fianna fail. fine gael will not reverse one single fianna fail policy and will infact add to working class misery. turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind.
ps did anyone see 'lord' hillary son of ex president hillary canvassing for fianna fail on the news and then interviewed infront of his antique bookcase ::) i'd love that maggot to knock on my door i'd kick a new hole in his arse >:(
I have asked this question on other threads here,who are the "working class" that certain sections of political classes keep harping on about?
I have a fairly good job, would have a good income and standard of living (thank God). I have worked hard, made sacrifices to get where i am, but it makes me mad when i hear the term "working class", it reminds me of chimney sweeps and coal mine workers. It is the middle/ professional classes who are fortunate enough to still have jobs who are now paying the vast majority of tax to keep the country going. Joe Higgins talks about "decent ordinary working class people" as opposed to "indecent extraordinary working class people".
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 15, 2011, 02:27:08 PM
its accepting the best of a bad bunch then?
Noonan and Bruton are two coffin-dodging, sour looking cnuts that talk shite and are hardly off the telly, never mind that Leo Varadkar...
I am not a FG basher here but jeez, I just dont see the attraction with any of these politicians, Labour or the waste of time Greens either
So what do you suggest?
Dubs for Sam the point i'm making is that FG revival is nothin really to do with Kenny. Its the fact that FF are a shambles. They are the largest two parties and when one does poory the other does well.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
i've no doubt that enda kenny is a nice bloke. but to say charisma is not a reguirement is naive, what had michael collins to offer other than charisma and the offer of a firing squad or a tyburn collar. people are voting fine gael because they have no choice they are not AS bad as fianna fail. fine gael will not reverse one single fianna fail policy and will infact add to working class misery. turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind.
ps did anyone see 'lord' hillary son of ex president hillary canvassing for fianna fail on the news and then interviewed infront of his antique bookcase ::) i'd love that maggot to knock on my door i'd kick a new hole in his arse >:(
I have asked this question on other threads here,who are the "working class" that certain sections of political classes keep harping on about?
I have a fairly good job, would have a good income and standard of living (thank God). I have worked hard, made sacrifices to get where i am, but it makes me mad when i hear the term "working class", it reminds me of chimney sweeps and coal mine workers. It is the middle/ professional classes who are fortunate enough to still have jobs who are now paying the vast majority of tax to keep the country going. Joe Higgins talks about "decent ordinary working class people" as opposed to "indecent extraordinary working class people".
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
ok imagine you are working class and being heavily taxed... now think of someone worse off than you having every penny taken from them thats whats fine gael are about remember tax on kids shoes
Quote from: Poc me on February 15, 2011, 02:36:52 PM
Dubs for Sam the point i'm making is that FG revival is nothin really to do with Kenny. Its the fact that FF are a shambles. They are the largest two parties and when one does poory the other does well.
So he took over FG when they were practically destroyed and most commentators were righting them off as basically being finished for good. They had their worst results in history and lowest seats ever losing nearly all their experienced members. Within 2 years he had totally rebuilt the organisation and made them finish less than 20 seats behind FF in the local elections and considering we were going through the biggest boom ever in our history he then led them to the biggest seat increase in history jumping from 31 to 51 and are set to make the biggest jump again this election.
Since he became leader everyone has gone on about how bad he is and how Ahern, Cowan, Gilmore, Rabbitte, Sargent, Harney, Adams etc were far superior.....well we have all seen how superior they have turned out to be....
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
i've no doubt that enda kenny is a nice bloke. but to say charisma is not a reguirement is naive, what had michael collins to offer other than charisma and the offer of a firing squad or a tyburn collar. people are voting fine gael because they have no choice they are not AS bad as fianna fail. fine gael will not reverse one single fianna fail policy and will infact add to working class misery. turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind.
ps did anyone see 'lord' hillary son of ex president hillary canvassing for fianna fail on the news and then interviewed infront of his antique bookcase ::) i'd love that maggot to knock on my door i'd kick a new hole in his arse >:(
I have asked this question on other threads here,who are the "working class" that certain sections of political classes keep harping on about?
I have a fairly good job, would have a good income and standard of living (thank God). I have worked hard, made sacrifices to get where i am, but it makes me mad when i hear the term "working class", it reminds me of chimney sweeps and coal mine workers. It is the middle/ professional classes who are fortunate enough to still have jobs who are now paying the vast majority of tax to keep the country going. Joe Higgins talks about "decent ordinary working class people" as opposed to "indecent extraordinary working class people".
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
ok imagine you are working class and being heavily taxed... now think of someone worse off than you having every penny taken from them thats whats fine gael are about remember tax on kids shoes
I don't think FG are planning on taking every penny (we use cents down here btw ;)) off anyone.
What solution to our problems do you propose?
Only really seen Ahearn and COwan, maybe some of sargeant. As i said though, you can only really measure people in government because when they are the opposition or in an election campaign all they do is shout and use soundbytes.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
Average gross household income in this country in 2009 was €56K (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf)). It's probably slipped a bit since then. €100K is well above average.
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
i've no doubt that enda kenny is a nice bloke. but to say charisma is not a reguirement is naive, what had michael collins to offer other than charisma and the offer of a firing squad or a tyburn collar. people are voting fine gael because they have no choice they are not AS bad as fianna fail. fine gael will not reverse one single fianna fail policy and will infact add to working class misery. turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind.
ps did anyone see 'lord' hillary son of ex president hillary canvassing for fianna fail on the news and then interviewed infront of his antique bookcase ::) i'd love that maggot to knock on my door i'd kick a new hole in his arse >:(
I have asked this question on other threads here,who are the "working class" that certain sections of political classes keep harping on about?
I have a fairly good job, would have a good income and standard of living (thank God). I have worked hard, made sacrifices to get where i am, but it makes me mad when i hear the term "working class", it reminds me of chimney sweeps and coal mine workers. It is the middle/ professional classes who are fortunate enough to still have jobs who are now paying the vast majority of tax to keep the country going. Joe Higgins talks about "decent ordinary working class people" as opposed to "indecent extraordinary working class people".
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
ok imagine you are working class and being heavily taxed... now think of someone worse off than you having every penny taken from them thats whats fine gael are about remember tax on kids shoes
Who are these working class people?
The Shoe tax, my god thats a dusty history book you have, i will raise you 350 euros a week tax take from my wages, in relation to what i earn, i reckon it is higher than what "working class people" pay.
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
Average gross household income in this country in 2009 was €56K (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf)). It's probably slipped a bit since then. €100K is well above average.
As i said previously, lets have a country of nothing but average and see where we are, a damn site worse than where we are now is where. I wont be sorry or made feel guilty for doing well in my career and trying to give my family a good standard of living, which has decreased quite a bit since last year i may add, but as for paying for everything, i pay my fair share.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqLrygCFAYk&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqLrygCFAYk&feature=player_embedded)
Enjoy Vinnie
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 03:03:01 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
Average gross household income in this country in 2009 was €56K (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf)). It's probably slipped a bit since then. €100K is well above average.
As i said previously, lets have a country of nothing but average and see where we are, a damn site worse than where we are now is where. I wont be sorry or made feel guilty for doing well in my career and trying to give my family a good standard of living, which has decreased quite a bit since last year i may add, but as for paying for everything, i pay my fair share.
You know, there are a lot of people - a big majority, actually - who are working just as hard as you are and have just as many financial outgoings as you have but have less resources with which to meet those commitments and are also dealing with a decreasing standard of living.
What you come across as in this thread is a self-righteous and self-pitying whinger who has been generally fortunate in life and has no realisation of other people's situations.
Quote from: Declan on February 15, 2011, 03:07:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqLrygCFAYk&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqLrygCFAYk&feature=player_embedded)
Enjoy Vinnie
Saw that last night, very good. The Manseragh manic laugh and Lenihan's shifty eyes had me cheered up after the depression of sitting through and hour and a half of the 'real' politicians.
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 03:03:01 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
Average gross household income in this country in 2009 was €56K (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf (http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/silc/Current/silc.pdf)). It's probably slipped a bit since then. €100K is well above average.
As i said previously, lets have a country of nothing but average and see where we are, a damn site worse than where we are now is where. I wont be sorry or made feel guilty for doing well in my career and trying to give my family a good standard of living, which has decreased quite a bit since last year i may add, but as for paying for everything, i pay my fair share.
You know, there are a lot of people - a big majority, actually - who are working just as hard as you are and have just as many financial outgoings as you have but have less resources with which to meet those commitments and are also dealing with a decreasing standard of living.
What you come across as in this thread is a self-righteous and self-pitying whinger who has been generally fortunate in life and has no realisation of other people's situations.
Mind yourself up there on the high moral ground, as for realisation of other people's situations, you have no idea.
The majority of people in this country are on a lot less than €100K a year household income - it's not because, to use your words, they "don't want to better themselves". They are a lot more entitled to complain about how hard they have things than you or I.
QuoteYou know, there are a lot of people - a big majority, actually - who are working just as hard as you are and have just as many financial outgoings as you have but have less resources with which to meet those commitments and are also dealing with a decreasing standard of living.
The point is that everyone has to have a decreasing standard of living. If the country is poorer then this should not just the concern of a few. There is tremendous hypocrisy from those who argue that if the country becomes more prosperous then everyone should share, but if it becomes poorer then that isn't everyone's problem.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 15, 2011, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Apart from Obama, is there another leader on the planet who has the same charisma? Certainly not in Europe anyway,
Merkle- no nonsense alright, but not known for Charisma
Berlousconi - Charisma -not sure that is the word for it- Horny perhaps
Sarkozy- french- pomp- not much charisma, fine missus.
Cameron- Eton school boy- enough said
i don't think charisma is needed, all the mandarins behind the scenes do all the work, the prime minister walks in signs the document and heads off.
We have had the charisma "Bertie" and the brains "Cowen". I say give Enda a chance, he has a very good team behind him, more so than any other party and to be honest, Enda lets them do their job. That is one of the traits that makes a good leader - been able to trust your team. Still not voting for FG for the record.
i've no doubt that enda kenny is a nice bloke. but to say charisma is not a reguirement is naive, what had michael collins to offer other than charisma and the offer of a firing squad or a tyburn collar. people are voting fine gael because they have no choice they are not AS bad as fianna fail. fine gael will not reverse one single fianna fail policy and will infact add to working class misery. turkeys voting for christmas springs to mind.
ps did anyone see 'lord' hillary son of ex president hillary canvassing for fianna fail on the news and then interviewed infront of his antique bookcase ::) i'd love that maggot to knock on my door i'd kick a new hole in his arse >:(
I have asked this question on other threads here,who are the "working class" that certain sections of political classes keep harping on about?
I have a fairly good job, would have a good income and standard of living (thank God). I have worked hard, made sacrifices to get where i am, but it makes me mad when i hear the term "working class", it reminds me of chimney sweeps and coal mine workers. It is the middle/ professional classes who are fortunate enough to still have jobs who are now paying the vast majority of tax to keep the country going. Joe Higgins talks about "decent ordinary working class people" as opposed to "indecent extraordinary working class people".
It seems that this philosophy is, tax the shit out of anyone who has a fairly good job, the very same people who have a bit of spending power and could even be in a position to create a few jobs for others,make sure anyone who betters themselves are kept down to the same level of people who don't want to better themselves, keep the government involved in industries like, power generation, buses, trains, postal services etc. I know there are plenty of hardship cases around who need help, but trying to keep all levels of society at the same level surely is not the way forward, i think personally. (above comments exclude developers, bankers, politicians, i am talking about people whose household income is around 100k, both parties working.
ok imagine you are working class and being heavily taxed... now think of someone worse off than you having every penny taken from them thats whats fine gael are about remember tax on kids shoes
I don't think FG are planning on taking every penny (we use cents down here btw ;)) off anyone.
What solution to our problems do you propose?
what must happen is that the irish gov. must stop throwing money at these banks, if that money paid out so far had been invested in jobs we'd already be coming out of recession. 61% of money paid out in wages eventually comes back in taxes so we'd have people in work spending money and getting the economy moving. planning must be fast tracked and i mean fast (weeks) especially for wind turbines and renewables im hearing up to 12 years from application to turning a sod (WTF). we must simply tell our creditors that we are taking a break from payments to do an audit. all debts accrued by the state will be honoured, all private debts- tough shit. we are a country not a fella with a mortgage WE say what happens. we are next door to the most urban economy in europe they need food, energy,recreation etc we are best placed to supply we must drive irish business into england promote irish industry, buy 1 million tickets from ryan air from england to ireland and give them out free to english people and stop trying to fleece them when they come here. getting an economy moving isnt about billions here and there its about a guy being able to turn a quid and building up his confidence/ability to increase his business. no civil servant should earn more than 100000/annum doctor, dentist, judge, politician,broadcaster,cop,lawyer- anyone in the receipt of public money 100000 euro max. if they want to leave let them if they are so good at their job let them make it in the real world.
One for the economists among you.
What is the benefit of the current Tax system where you pay certain rates at certain levels of income, as opposed to say a flat rate that you pay no matter how much you earn e.g. everyone pays 20%?
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2011, 03:26:16 PM
QuoteYou know, there are a lot of people - a big majority, actually - who are working just as hard as you are and have just as many financial outgoings as you have but have less resources with which to meet those commitments and are also dealing with a decreasing standard of living.
The point is that everyone has to have a decreasing standard of living. If the country is poorer then this should not just the concern of a few. There is tremendous hypocrisy from those who argue that if the country becomes more prosperous then everyone should share, but if it becomes poorer then that isn't everyone's problem.
I realise fully that the vast majority of people here are going to have a decreasing standard of living - probably for at least the next decade. I'm not at all sure that the general electorate realise how hard it's likely to get, and I don't see the politicians as being willing to enlighten them, judging by the codology that's being doled out during the election campaign.
The problem is that people down at the bottom end of the scale have less room for manouevre with declining living standards than those at the top, if prices and the cost of living aren't also decreasing. That has to be taken account of when deciding how the burden should be shared.
From Jude Collins...
Telling it like it wasn't?
Wtf, as they say on Facebook and other places. Or "What the f**k?" as I sometimes say to my nearest and dearest. I said it again last night, not after the leaders' debate on TV, but after watching the response to the leaders' debate on RTÉ's The Eleventh Hour , which featured Keelin Shanley with what she called "a panel of dispassionate political journalists" – Sam Smyth, Katie Hannon and Michael Clifford.
Like most people, I'd been watching the debate with an eye on two people in particular: Enda Kenny, to see if he would put his foot in it now he'd finally agreed to appear on a TV debate; and Gerry Adams, to see if he would repeat his 2007 debate performance, which was widely adjudged to have been not his finest hour. What I saw was Enda Kenny performing pretty well: on occasion he looked a bit physically small, even wan, but in his exchanges with Eamon Gilmore he clearly triumphed. Gerry Adams seemed a bit nervous, drinking an amount of water and moving his feet around, but in his contributions he was clear, concrete and specific – a world away from his exchange with Michael McDowell in 2007.
So then I tune into The Eleventh Hour's dispassionate trio. What, I repeat, the f**k? Sam Smyth judged Enda Kenny to have done really well, but as for Gerry Adams: "What was he doing there? He really doesn't know anything about economics". Katie Hannon said Kenny did really well, but Micheal Martin landed "killer punches" on Gerry Adams. Michael Clifford said Enda Kenny was very good, while Gerry Adams simply trotted out stock phrases and his sums didn't add up. Keelin Shanley agreed and showed two points in the debate where Martin attacked Adams. For some reason, Adams's response in both cases had been edited out.
What the f**k, I murmured to myself. So I switched to Vincent Browne Tonight on TV3. He has four panellists. All four declared that Adams did very well and Browne himself agreed. The Irish Times this morning figured Adams was fluid and had a command of detail; even its ghastly columnist Miriam Lord conceded that Adams did very well, more than held his own. On RTÉ radio this morning, commentators agreed that Adams had put in a very effective performance.
So wtf? Why this chasm between the response from the Dispassionates on The Eleventh Hour and that from everywhere else? You tell me. But please: don't tell me The Eleventh Hour response had something to do with Sam Smyth's insistence a week or so ago that Gerry Adams would be a disaster in the televised debate. That would suggest that the programme made a frantic effort to spin the event so it fitted into Sam's c**k-eyed prophecy and that, if true, would open up an appalling vista. Wouldn't it?
Wtf...
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2011, 03:26:16 PM
QuoteYou know, there are a lot of people - a big majority, actually - who are working just as hard as you are and have just as many financial outgoings as you have but have less resources with which to meet those commitments and are also dealing with a decreasing standard of living.
The point is that everyone has to have a decreasing standard of living. If the country is poorer then this should not just the concern of a few. There is tremendous hypocrisy from those who argue that if the country becomes more prosperous then everyone should share, but if it becomes poorer then that isn't everyone's problem.
So, if we pay say, 60 per cent tax on our income along with VAT etc. then our disposable income drops right down,mulitply this by 80 thousand households in the same bracket, how much money will this pull in for the state? Would the state not be better trying to encourage these 80,000 families spend a bit more and the benifits this can bring? versus the state increases the social welfare side of things with the extra income from these families making it better to stay unemployed as aginst working. I realise everyday how fortunate i am and past experiences have tohught me never take anything for granted. But my point is, taxing the shit out of the likes of me, i don't think will get the country back on its feet. Thats all. As for the arrogance, i may be a lot of things, but i ain't that.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 03:31:27 PM
One for the economists among you.
What is the benefit of the current Tax system where you pay certain rates at certain levels of income, as opposed to say a flat rate that you pay no matter how much you earn e.g. everyone pays 20%?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax)
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 03:33:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2011, 03:26:16 PM
QuoteYou know, there are a lot of people - a big majority, actually - who are working just as hard as you are and have just as many financial outgoings as you have but have less resources with which to meet those commitments and are also dealing with a decreasing standard of living.
The point is that everyone has to have a decreasing standard of living. If the country is poorer then this should not just the concern of a few. There is tremendous hypocrisy from those who argue that if the country becomes more prosperous then everyone should share, but if it becomes poorer then that isn't everyone's problem.
I realise fully that the vast majority of people here are going to have a decreasing standard of living - probably for at least the next decade. I'm not at all sure that the general electorate realise how hard it's likely to get, and I don't see the politicians as being willing to enlighten them, judging by the codology that's being doled out during the election campaign.
The problem is that people down at the bottom end of the scale have less room for manouevre with declining living standards than those at the top, if prices and the cost of living aren't also decreasing. That has to be taken account of when deciding how the burden should be shared.
exactly laurel people who enjoy two foreign hols a year will have to settle for one so as the worse off can eat and stay warm
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 15, 2011, 03:41:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 15, 2011, 03:26:16 PM
QuoteYou know, there are a lot of people - a big majority, actually - who are working just as hard as you are and have just as many financial outgoings as you have but have less resources with which to meet those commitments and are also dealing with a decreasing standard of living.
The point is that everyone has to have a decreasing standard of living. If the country is poorer then this should not just the concern of a few. There is tremendous hypocrisy from those who argue that if the country becomes more prosperous then everyone should share, but if it becomes poorer then that isn't everyone's problem.
So, if we pay say, 60 per cent tax on our income along with VAT etc. then our disposable income drops right down, as does my "disposable" income, mulitply this by 80 thousand households in the same bracket, how much money will this pull in for the state? Would the state not be better trying to encourage these 80,000 families spend a bit more and the benifits this can bring? versus the state increases the social welfare side of things with the extra income from these families making it better to stay unemployed as aginst working. I realise everyday how fortunate i am and past experiences have tohught me never take anything for granted. But my point is, taxing the shit out of the likes of me, i don't think will get the country back on its feet. Thats all. As for the arrogance, i may be a lot of things, but i ain't that.
Ideally, we wouldn't be in a position where we were either hiking tax or slashing spending in the middle of a deep depression, because both are likely to further deflate the economy. (The 1987-90 period is not a good guide because we were fortunate enough to have a booming economy next door which acted as a source of demand for exports of goods and labour. We were also still getting considerable transfers from the EU at the time.)
Problem Solved, Ring Enda and put him on to Melissa, i hope she has sent him the same mail;
From:
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we need tony quinn.. thats it we are not up to our full brain power.. a couple of weeks rubbing sand on ourselves in the bahamas and we'll see things in a different light. :)
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2011, 03:38:04 PM
From Jude Collins...
Telling it like it wasn't?
Wtf, as they say on Facebook and other places. Or "What the f**k?" as I sometimes say to my nearest and dearest. I said it again last night, not after the leaders' debate on TV, but after watching the response to the leaders' debate on RTÉ's The Eleventh Hour , which featured Keelin Shanley with what she called "a panel of dispassionate political journalists" – Sam Smyth, Katie Hannon and Michael Clifford.
Like most people, I'd been watching the debate with an eye on two people in particular: Enda Kenny, to see if he would put his foot in it now he'd finally agreed to appear on a TV debate; and Gerry Adams, to see if he would repeat his 2007 debate performance, which was widely adjudged to have been not his finest hour. What I saw was Enda Kenny performing pretty well: on occasion he looked a bit physically small, even wan, but in his exchanges with Eamon Gilmore he clearly triumphed. Gerry Adams seemed a bit nervous, drinking an amount of water and moving his feet around, but in his contributions he was clear, concrete and specific – a world away from his exchange with Michael McDowell in 2007.
So then I tune into The Eleventh Hour's dispassionate trio. What, I repeat, the f**k? Sam Smyth judged Enda Kenny to have done really well, but as for Gerry Adams: "What was he doing there? He really doesn't know anything about economics". Katie Hannon said Kenny did really well, but Micheal Martin landed "killer punches" on Gerry Adams. Michael Clifford said Enda Kenny was very good, while Gerry Adams simply trotted out stock phrases and his sums didn't add up. Keelin Shanley agreed and showed two points in the debate where Martin attacked Adams. For some reason, Adams's response in both cases had been edited out.
What the f**k, I murmured to myself. So I switched to Vincent Browne Tonight on TV3. He has four panellists. All four declared that Adams did very well and Browne himself agreed. The Irish Times this morning figured Adams was fluid and had a command of detail; even its ghastly columnist Miriam Lord conceded that Adams did very well, more than held his own. On RTÉ radio this morning, commentators agreed that Adams had put in a very effective performance.
So wtf? Why this chasm between the response from the Dispassionates on The Eleventh Hour and that from everywhere else? You tell me. But please: don't tell me The Eleventh Hour response had something to do with Sam Smyth's insistence a week or so ago that Gerry Adams would be a disaster in the televised debate. That would suggest that the programme made a frantic effort to spin the event so it fitted into Sam's c**k-eyed prophecy and that, if true, would open up an appalling vista. Wouldn't it?
Wtf...
Wasn't there something between Sam Smyth and Mary Lou some years back?
The 'debate' wasn't really up to much. Got a bit better as it went on but five was too many and there wasn't enough time to hear much more than soundbites and cliches. I doubt anyone will change their voting intentions on the basis of it.
I was having more entertainment following the hashtag on Twitter.
Tomorrow's Irish Independent - Milward Brown poll
FG 38 (+ 8 )
Lab 23 (-1)
SF 10 (-3)
FF 12 ( -4)
Gr 1 (-)
Ind/Other 16 (-1)
Being for the Indo I would normally take this with a pinch of salt but it matches closely with the recent Red C poll, FG seem to be really up @ 38%
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:08:05 PM
Tomorrow's Irish Independent - Milward Brown poll
FG 38 (+ 8 )
Lab 23 (-1)
SF 10 (-3)
FF 12 ( -4)
Gr 1 (-)
Ind/Other 16 (-1)
Being for the Indo I would normally take this with a pinch of salt but it matches closely with the recent Red C poll, FG seem to be really up @ 38%
there seems to be an extra -1 in that table
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 08:16:48 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:08:05 PM
Tomorrow's Irish Independent - Milward Brown poll
FG 38 (+ 8 )
Lab 23 (-1)
SF 10 (-3)
FF 12 ( -4)
Gr 1 (-)
Ind/Other 16 (-1)
Being for the Indo I would normally take this with a pinch of salt but it matches closely with the recent Red C poll, FG seem to be really up @ 38%
there seems to be an extra -1 in that table
Ya I noticed that too, thats taken direct from politics.ie
The table might be more interesting if the % were translated into seats. How many % is a seat worth?
Anyone hear Ger (I think his name is) Colleran from the Star with Tubridy this morning. Jesus Christ, he really has a bugbear about Adams.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:08:05 PMBeing for the Indo I would normally take this with a pinch of salt but it matches closely with the recent Red C poll, FG seem to be really up @ 38%
Millward Brown is pretty reputable. It's the "Quantum Research" jobs in the Sindo that are made-up.
In any case, you shouldn't be criticising Independent Newspapers. You can expect it to return to its pre-90s role of faithful FG lapdog very soon.
Would I be right in saying that poll was carried out before last nights debate?
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 08:25:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:08:05 PMBeing for the Indo I would normally take this with a pinch of salt but it matches closely with the recent Red C poll, FG seem to be really up @ 38%
Millward Brown is pretty reputable. It's the "Quantum Research" jobs in the Sindo that are made-up.
In any case, you shouldn't be criticising Independent Newspapers. You can expect it to return to its pre-90s role of faithful FG lapdog very soon.
I don't want papers to be with us, just because they have an agenda. I want journalists to make considered comment, not have a default setting of supporting or criticising certain parties of politicians. We also saw how Bertie was able to rule this country with RTE and the Indo group.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 15, 2011, 08:27:05 PM
Would I be right in saying that poll was carried out before last nights debate?
Pretty sure it was before the debate. I would have thought Enda and Gerry would see further personal increases but maybe not party increases based on last nights performance. Expect a fall in Gilmores personal support.
FF on 10% in Dublin (Herald poll)
Both nationaly and in Dublin, M.Martin is now receiving worse results than Brian Cowan ever did. The Micheal bounce has appeared to have ended, slide resumes.
'and the word was made flesh and shared amongst us' finally what sinn fein said was on the cards has been floated in the public domain. good news for all you war mongers. the Irish nation under a fine gael government will give Irish troops to the European rapid response force courtesy of the Lisbon treaty. no sign of the jobs and investment promised if we gave the green light but sure we knew that anyway. all it took was a wee bit of shit from micheal o'leary and sabre rattling from intel and we caved. now young irish men and women will pay for our stupidity and greed literally with their lives. wheres neutrality now? but sure that was just dev covering his ass. today i am ashamed to be irish. we are being pushed around by banks, europe, but worst of all we are being betrayed by our own politicians, sold down the river by traitors. bad enough that we should say goodbye to our youth to emmigration but to send them out to die for the ideals of a europe lead by germany and france 2 countries who are steeped in the blood of innocent people thats the last straw.
when is someone going stand up for this country and fight for irish people? when is anyone going to say something.. anything and actually mean it? this has been planed for the last 5 or 6 years, enda was'nt in germany talking about banks he was assuring the germans that he could deliver the irish people on a plate asses up ready to be screwed.
army dreamers..
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 08:44:18 PM
'and the word was made flesh and shared amongst us' finally what sinn fein said was on the cards has been floated in the public domain. good news for all you war mongers. the Irish nation under a fine gael government will give Irish troops to the European rapid response force courtesy of the Lisbon treaty. no sign of the jobs and investment promised if we gave the green light but sure we knew that anyway. all it took was a wee bit of shit from micheal o'leary and sabre rattling from intel and we caved. now young irish men and women will pay for our stupidity and greed literally with their lives. wheres neutrality now? but sure that was just dev covering his ass. today i am ashamed to be irish. we are being pushed around by banks, europe, but worst of all we are being betrayed by our own politicians, sold down the river by traitors. bad enough that we should say goodbye to our youth to emmigration but to send them out to die for the ideals of a europe lead by germany and france 2 countries who are steeped in the blood of innocent people thats the last straw.
when is someone going stand up for this country and fight for irish people? when is anyone going to say something.. anything and actually mean it? this has been planed for the last 5 or 6 years, enda was'nt in germany talking about banks he was assuring the germans that he could deliver the irish people on a plate asses up ready to be screwed.
army dreamers..
Very good, at last the pretence of neutrality will be exposed, FF allowing the Yanks to bring arms, armies and prisoners through Ireland. About time Ireland & Europe stood up and stopped relying on the dodgy as fck Yanks.
I'm not sure where lawnseed got his post from, but are you, mayogodhelpus, saying you support a united European Army, with mandatory Irish participation?
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 08:54:50 PM
I'm not sure where lawnseed got his post from, but are you, mayogodhelpus, saying you support a united European Army, with mandatory Irish participation?
I would like to see Ireland with the constitutional option to participate. Balkens type mission not an Iraq type mission.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 08:54:50 PM
I'm not sure where lawnseed got his post from, but are you, mayogodhelpus, saying you support a united European Army, with mandatory Irish participation?
hello? got his post from???? the fine gael manifesto published today and delivered by micheal noonan
ps i'm quite capable of posting without lifting the stuff out of a paper and i'm on record as saying this was going to happen for quite some time.
doubt if many mayo men will see any action enda will see to it
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 08:54:50 PM
I'm not sure where lawnseed got his post from, but are you, mayogodhelpus, saying you support a united European Army, with mandatory Irish participation?
I would like to see Ireland with the constitutional option to participate. Balkens type mission not an Iraq type mission.
That's splitting hairs. Why not just stay the way we are, and contribute to the UN peacekeeping missions like Chad, the Leb, etc?
Why the urge to get involved in military 'operations'?
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:02:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 08:54:50 PM
I'm not sure where lawnseed got his post from, but are you, mayogodhelpus, saying you support a united European Army, with mandatory Irish participation?
hello? got his post from???? the fine gael manifesto published today and delivered by micheal noonan
ps i'm quite capable of posting without lifting the stuff out of a paper and i'm on record as saying this was going to happen for quite some time.
doubt if many mayo men will see any action enda will see to it
You got this from the FG manifesto?
Quote'and the word was made flesh and shared amongst us' finally what sinn fein said was on the cards has been floated in the public domain. good news for all you war mongers. the Irish nation under a fine gael government will give Irish troops to the European rapid response force courtesy of the Lisbon treaty. no sign of the jobs and investment promised if we gave the green light but sure we knew that anyway. all it took was a wee bit of shit from micheal o'leary and sabre rattling from intel and we caved. now young irish men and women will pay for our stupidity and greed literally with their lives. wheres neutrality now? but sure that was just dev covering his ass. today i am ashamed to be irish. we are being pushed around by banks, europe, but worst of all we are being betrayed by our own politicians, sold down the river by traitors. bad enough that we should say goodbye to our youth to emmigration but to send them out to die for the ideals of a europe lead by germany and france 2 countries who are steeped in the blood of innocent people thats the last straw.
when is someone going stand up for this country and fight for irish people? when is anyone going to say something.. anything and actually mean it? this has been planed for the last 5 or 6 years, enda was'nt in germany talking about banks he was assuring the germans that he could deliver the irish people on a plate asses up ready to be screwed.
They've fairly spiced up their political documents so. I think you're right about Mayo men, but sure that's just as well, they'd miss anyway. :D
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 08:22:52 PM
The table might be more interesting if the % were translated into seats. How many % is a seat worth?
Someone on politics.ie came up with this prediction based on spreadsheets (not sure how close or accurate)
FG: 75
Lab: 47
FF: 21
SF: 16
Oth: 7
now we know what the wee military parade down o'connell street was about and bertie standing over them like some cold war russian president. i'm sure its a great relief to the manx people who probably thought we were going to invade ::)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:05:46 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 08:22:52 PM
The table might be more interesting if the % were translated into seats. How many % is a seat worth?
Someone on politics.ie came up with this prediction based on spreadsheets (not sure how close or accurate)
FG: 75
Lab: 47
FF: 21
SF: 16
Oth: 7
Will Labour really push 50 seats? That'd be some showing.
Same poster on politics.ie explains the poll as the following in votes
FF have lost 610,000 votes
FG have gained 222,000
Lab have gained 267,000
PDs 57,000 are gone
Greens have lost 80,000
SF have gained 64,000
Others have gained 194,000
To be honest not sure I understand this.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 08:54:50 PM
I'm not sure where lawnseed got his post from, but are you, mayogodhelpus, saying you support a united European Army, with mandatory Irish participation?
I would like to see Ireland with the constitutional option to participate. Balkens type mission not an Iraq type mission.
From the Irish Times, February 4, 2003:
QuoteMadam, - There has been much debate about US motives for war against Iraq. Is it about oil, weapons of mass destruction, control of the region, humanitarian or value-driven interests, toppling Saddam - or merely unfinished business?
In reality, it is all of these that have given rise to the impetus for war. Only in 20 years' time, will we know which was the greatest factor.
If, at that time, Iraq is a democratic state whose liberated people have grown as rich as Europeans or Americans from their massive oil reserves and whose wealth, sophistication, democratic values and large conventional army have allowed it to become a democratic Arab superpower, then we can rest assured that the West's motives were honourable.
However, if Iraq in 20 years' time is a state united in name, but in reality dismembered into three regional-ethnic fiefdoms falling under the sphere of influence of neighbouring powers, with US bases outside Baghdad and in the northern and southern oil fields and with an impoverished people whose oil wealth flows to the West, we will be in no doubt as to what America's motives were.
Perhaps, if war is inevitable, the only moral option Europe leaders can exercise is to join a multilateral coalition to topple Saddam (a good day's work if ever there was one) and ensure that the Iraq that follows becomes a testament to the just cause of the campaign. - Yours, etc.,
LEO VARADKAR,
Roselawn Road,
Dublin 15.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2003/0204/1043927474307.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2003/0204/1043927474307.html)
It would certainly help solve the unemployment problem and boost the services sector (well, the undertaking and florist parts of the service sector, anyway).
good call mayo god... you'd want our young people standing along side the dutch cowards who stood back and allowed the serbs to massacre thousands in bosnia. think before you reply this time
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:22:37 PM
good call mayo god... you'd want our young people standing along side the dutch cowards who stood back and allowed the serbs to massacre thousands in bosnia. think before you reply this time
Hey the Dutch @ Srebrenica had their hands tied (and I'm not talking about to trees) by their U.N. mandate, Irish and other European troops would have greater powers in terms of rules of engagement. If the Dutch soldiers hadn't been there, those people would still have been massacared. Maybe if the Dutch where under European Rapid Reaction control back then, they may of had the powers and resources to fight back.
Let's suppose that in 2013 the newly-elected President Huckabee decides to invade Iran.
A leading Fine Gael cabinet minister decides that "the only moral option Europe(sic) leaders can exercise is to join a multilateral coalition to topple Ahmadinejad (a good day's work if ever there was one) and ensure that the Iran that follows becomes a testament to the just cause of the campaign".
Will you support Irish troops being sent to the Gulf?
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:05:46 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 08:22:52 PM
The table might be more interesting if the % were translated into seats. How many % is a seat worth?
Someone on politics.ie came up with this prediction based on spreadsheets (not sure how close or accurate)
FG: 75
Lab: 47
FF: 21
SF: 16
Oth: 7
Will Labour really push 50 seats? That'd be some showing.
AZ another method was used on the spreadsheets on politics.ie and they got the following
80 Fine Gael
42 Labour
16 Fianna Fail
11 Sinn Fein
17 Others
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 15, 2011, 08:25:20 PM
Anyone hear Ger (I think his name is) Colleran from the Star with Tubridy this morning. Jesus Christ, he really has a bugbear about Adams.
Yep, it was poor, especially the recovery piece when he realised he may have went too far. I await the comments of the other papers Tubbs promised with interest.
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 09:32:45 PM
Let's suppose that in 2013 the newly-elected President Huckabee decides to invade Iran.
A leading Fine Gael cabinet minister decides that "the only moral option Europe(sic) leaders can exercise is to join a multilateral coalition to topple Ahmadinejad (a good day's work if ever there was one) and ensure that the Iran that follows becomes a testament to the just cause of the campaign".
Will you support Irish troops being sent to the Gulf?
Not being smart here, but it depends on the circumstances, evidence and stability (ex. is their mass executions etc) at the time. I was very much against the invasion of Iraq.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
QuoteI was very much against the invasion of Iraq.
Yeah, but Leo was quite keen on it at the time.
And not being smart, but he's going to be making the decisions and you're not.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
Very much a supporter.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
You take it from *that*? Have you not been reading mayo's posts? :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
You take it from *that*? Have you not been reading mayo's posts? :D
AZ I never tried to deny it :D
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 09:38:54 PM
QuoteI was very much against the invasion of Iraq.
Yeah, but Leo was quite keen on it at the time.
And not being smart, but he's going to be making the decisions and you're not.
Good find LaurelEye. Certainly gives more weight to lawnseed's initial post.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
You take it from *that*? Have you not been reading mayo's posts? :D
I have family from Mayo and have successfully ignored their ramblings for years.
bullshit mayo they had their hands tied by their sheer effn cowardice. they knew exactly what was going to happen and they bottled it all they had to do was stand up for the innocent young men most of them under 10 years of age. sure they were outnumbered but they are soldiers- you know what you sign up for when you put on the uniform. we've have had it nice and cushy and have no idea what its like to be in a war, this 'rapid reaction force' sounds very grande we just parachute in and kick ass and get out. war is not rapid nowadays its guerrilla roadside landmines and blue on blue get a grip of yourself man why should we start a war with anyone. why do you think Brits want Irish passports when travelling to any of the countries listed one Nallys post plus many more. its because they have baggage. this whole thing is laughable we've no money to treat patients on trolleys but we have money to fight another country's war. fuk europe let them fight their own wars
http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/SBP-13th-Feb-Poll-2011-Report.pdf
FG getting lots of 2nd preferences from SF/FF voters
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:49:55 PM
bullshit mayo they had their hands tied by their sheer effn cowardice. they knew exactly what was going to happen and they bottled it all they had to do was stand up for the innocent young men most of them under 10 years of age. sure they were outnumbered but they are soldiers- you know what you sign up for when you put on the uniform. we've have had it nice and cushy and have no idea what its like to be in a war, this 'rapid reaction force' sounds very grande we just parachute in and kick ass and get out. war is not rapid nowadays its guerrilla roadside landmines and blue on blue get a grip of yourself man why should we start a war with anyone. why do you think Brits want Irish passports when travelling to any of the countries listed one Nallys post plus many more. its because they have baggage. this whole thing is laughable we've no money to treat patients on trolleys but we have money to fight another country's war. fuk europe let them fight their own wars
I'm confused are you for or against European troops on these type missons. You are berating the Dutch, but by your reckoning they shouldn't be there in the first place. Mixed messages. It's not bullshit Lawnseed and I am entitiled to my opinion.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
You take it from *that*? Have you not been reading mayo's posts? :D
I have family from Mayo and have successfully ignored their ramblings for years.
We have tried to ignore the rest of you for years :D
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
You take it from *that*? Have you not been reading mayo's posts? :D
I have family from Mayo and have successfully ignored their ramblings for years.
We have tried to ignore the rest of you for years :D
and the football parallel is there , I was successful ;D :P
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:58:56 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
I don't want papers to be with us.
Apologies if I have missed it, but I take it from that statement you are a party member/ activist?
You take it from *that*? Have you not been reading mayo's posts? :D
I have family from Mayo and have successfully ignored their ramblings for years.
We have tried to ignore the rest of you for years :D
and the football parallel is there , I was successful ;D :P
September 2011, Taoiseach Enda Kenny hands Sam Maguire to Alan Dillion.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:49:55 PM
bullshit mayo they had their hands tied by their sheer effn cowardice. they knew exactly what was going to happen and they bottled it all they had to do was stand up for the innocent young men most of them under 10 years of age. sure they were outnumbered but they are soldiers- you know what you sign up for when you put on the uniform. we've have had it nice and cushy and have no idea what its like to be in a war, this 'rapid reaction force' sounds very grande we just parachute in and kick ass and get out. war is not rapid nowadays its guerrilla roadside landmines and blue on blue get a grip of yourself man why should we start a war with anyone. why do you think Brits want Irish passports when travelling to any of the countries listed one Nallys post plus many more. its because they have baggage. this whole thing is laughable we've no money to treat patients on trolleys but we have money to fight another country's war. fuk europe let them fight their own wars
yes you are entitled to your opinion and if any irishman dies in a theatre of war it should be defending ireland and your right to your opinion not imposing european christian values to situations that are none of our business. irish troops are highly thought of for their fighting skills but most of all for their courage over centuries eg the san patricios of mexico city who fought to the last man. why should a proud nation of legends align ourselves with countries whose reputations are stained and who have ex colonial problems world wide. there is no confusion we can travel freely throughout the world because we have not engaged in imposing our will on others watch how this will change when we start sending armed soldiers abroad to do europes dirty work
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 10:10:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:49:55 PM
bullshit mayo they had their hands tied by their sheer effn cowardice. they knew exactly what was going to happen and they bottled it all they had to do was stand up for the innocent young men most of them under 10 years of age. sure they were outnumbered but they are soldiers- you know what you sign up for when you put on the uniform. we've have had it nice and cushy and have no idea what its like to be in a war, this 'rapid reaction force' sounds very grande we just parachute in and kick ass and get out. war is not rapid nowadays its guerrilla roadside landmines and blue on blue get a grip of yourself man why should we start a war with anyone. why do you think Brits want Irish passports when travelling to any of the countries listed one Nallys post plus many more. its because they have baggage. this whole thing is laughable we've no money to treat patients on trolleys but we have money to fight another country's war. fuk europe let them fight their own wars
yes you are entitled to your opinion and if any irishman dies in a theatre of war it should be defending ireland and your right to your opinion not imposing european christian values to situations that are none of our business. irish troops are highly thought of for their fighting skills but most of all for their courage over centuries eg the san patricios of mexico city who fought to the last man. why should a proud nation of legends align ourselves with countries whose reputations are stained and who have ex colonial problems world wide. there is no confusion we can travel freely throughout the world because we have not engaged in imposing our will on others watch how this will change when we start sending armed soldiers abroad to do europes dirty work
Lawseed, don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying, but should Ireland stand back and pontificate when thousands are being macheted in a conflict in the tropics, or innocents hijacked from ships off the coast of the horn of Africa or mass executions, ethnic cleansings and land grabs worldwide. I want Europe to have a strong muscle to support our economic and diplomatic interactions in cases of crimes against humanity. We cannot let the Yanks, Chineese, resurgent Russia etc. bully the world. Europe has for several decades been the sane voice in the crazy house.
Could someone tell me very quicky what you call the bat they play with in camogie? Is it a hurl?
And what is the collective name for a group of nuns?
Thanks in advance,
Olly.
Quote from: Olly on February 15, 2011, 10:22:06 PM
Could someone tell me very quicky what you call the bat they play with in camogie? Is it a hurl?
And what is the collective name for a group of nuns? A HERD
Thanks in advance,
Olly.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:21:05 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 10:10:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:49:55 PM
bullshit mayo they had their hands tied by their sheer effn cowardice. they knew exactly what was going to happen and they bottled it all they had to do was stand up for the innocent young men most of them under 10 years of age. sure they were outnumbered but they are soldiers- you know what you sign up for when you put on the uniform. we've have had it nice and cushy and have no idea what its like to be in a war, this 'rapid reaction force' sounds very grande we just parachute in and kick ass and get out. war is not rapid nowadays its guerrilla roadside landmines and blue on blue get a grip of yourself man why should we start a war with anyone. why do you think Brits want Irish passports when travelling to any of the countries listed one Nallys post plus many more. its because they have baggage. this whole thing is laughable we've no money to treat patients on trolleys but we have money to fight another country's war. fuk europe let them fight their own wars
yes you are entitled to your opinion and if any irishman dies in a theatre of war it should be defending ireland and your right to your opinion not imposing european christian values to situations that are none of our business. irish troops are highly thought of for their fighting skills but most of all for their courage over centuries eg the san patricios of mexico city who fought to the last man. why should a proud nation of legends align ourselves with countries whose reputations are stained and who have ex colonial problems world wide. there is no confusion we can travel freely throughout the world because we have not engaged in imposing our will on others watch how this will change when we start sending armed soldiers abroad to do europes dirty work
Lawseed, don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying, but should Ireland stand back and pontificate when thousands are being macheted in a conflict in the tropics, or innocents hijacked from ships off the coast of the horn of Africa or mass executions, ethnic cleansings and land grabs worldwide. I want Europe to have a strong muscle to support our economic and diplomatic interactions in cases of crimes against humanity. We cannot let the Yanks, Chineese, resurgent Russia etc. bully the world. Europe has for several decades been the sane voice in the crazy house.
In this european force, which troops go in first? Is it based on historical relevance or who has the weakest economy? Will this "fodder" be fed by national service or similar?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Olly on February 15, 2011, 10:22:06 PM
Could someone tell me very quicky what you call the bat they play with in camogie? Is it a hurl?
And what is the collective name for a group of nuns? A HERD
Thanks in advance,
Olly.
Thank you very very much. And what about the camogie stick?
Quote from: Olly on February 15, 2011, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Olly on February 15, 2011, 10:22:06 PM
Could someone tell me very quicky what you call the bat they play with in camogie? Is it a hurl?
And what is the collective name for a group of nuns? A HERD
Thanks in advance,
Olly.
Thank you very very much. And what about the camogie stick?
Most of the players call it a dildo
Quote from: Olly on February 15, 2011, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:23:52 PM
Quote from: Olly on February 15, 2011, 10:22:06 PM
Could someone tell me very quicky what you call the bat they play with in camogie? Is it a hurl?
And what is the collective name for a group of nuns? A HERD
Thanks in advance,
Olly.
Thank you very very much. And what about the camogie stick?
A strap-on
Rouge_Diablo that is scary, both our posts nearly at the same time, I was going to say Dildo.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:28:45 PM
Rouge_Diablo that is scary, both our posts nearly at the same time, I was going to say Dildo.
not as scary as your war machine!
Thanks a million lads, it's for a parish quiz. I'll step out of this thread now. Thanks again.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 10:29:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:28:45 PM
Rouge_Diablo that is scary, both our posts nearly at the same time, I was going to say Dildo.
not as scary as your war machine!
Armed with Dildos & Strap-ons, noone would mess with them.
Quote from: Olly on February 15, 2011, 10:30:20 PM
Thanks a million lads, it's for a parish quiz. I'll step out of this thread now. Thanks again.
No worries, always a pleasure to help out.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:21:05 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 10:10:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:49:55 PM
bullshit mayo they had their hands tied by their sheer effn cowardice. they knew exactly what was going to happen and they bottled it all they had to do was stand up for the innocent young men most of them under 10 years of age. sure they were outnumbered but they are soldiers- you know what you sign up for when you put on the uniform. we've have had it nice and cushy and have no idea what its like to be in a war, this 'rapid reaction force' sounds very grande we just parachute in and kick ass and get out. war is not rapid nowadays its guerrilla roadside landmines and blue on blue get a grip of yourself man why should we start a war with anyone. why do you think Brits want Irish passports when travelling to any of the countries listed one Nallys post plus many more. its because they have baggage. this whole thing is laughable we've no money to treat patients on trolleys but we have money to fight another country's war. fuk europe let them fight their own wars
yes you are entitled to your opinion and if any irishman dies in a theatre of war it should be defending ireland and your right to your opinion not imposing european christian values to situations that are none of our business. irish troops are highly thought of for their fighting skills but most of all for their courage over centuries eg the san patricios of mexico city who fought to the last man. why should a proud nation of legends align ourselves with countries whose reputations are stained and who have ex colonial problems world wide. there is no confusion we can travel freely throughout the world because we have not engaged in imposing our will on others watch how this will change when we start sending armed soldiers abroad to do europes dirty work
Lawseed, don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying, but should Ireland stand back and pontificate when thousands are being macheted in a conflict in the tropics, or innocents hijacked from ships off the coast of the horn of Africa or mass executions, ethnic cleansings and land grabs worldwide. I want Europe to have a strong muscle to support our economic and diplomatic interactions in cases of crimes against humanity. We cannot let the Yanks, Chineese, resurgent Russia etc. bully the world. Europe has for several decades been the sane voice in the crazy house.
what happens when european interests conflict with american/british interests
In this european force, which troops go in first? Is it based on historical relevance or who has the weakest economy? Will this "fodder" be fed by national service or similar?
paddy will be 1st in you can be sure. for god and enda
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 10:35:34 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:21:05 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 10:10:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 09:52:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 15, 2011, 09:49:55 PM
bullshit mayo they had their hands tied by their sheer effn cowardice. they knew exactly what was going to happen and they bottled it all they had to do was stand up for the innocent young men most of them under 10 years of age. sure they were outnumbered but they are soldiers- you know what you sign up for when you put on the uniform. we've have had it nice and cushy and have no idea what its like to be in a war, this 'rapid reaction force' sounds very grande we just parachute in and kick ass and get out. war is not rapid nowadays its guerrilla roadside landmines and blue on blue get a grip of yourself man why should we start a war with anyone. why do you think Brits want Irish passports when travelling to any of the countries listed one Nallys post plus many more. its because they have baggage. this whole thing is laughable we've no money to treat patients on trolleys but we have money to fight another country's war. fuk europe let them fight their own wars
yes you are entitled to your opinion and if any irishman dies in a theatre of war it should be defending ireland and your right to your opinion not imposing european christian values to situations that are none of our business. irish troops are highly thought of for their fighting skills but most of all for their courage over centuries eg the san patricios of mexico city who fought to the last man. why should a proud nation of legends align ourselves with countries whose reputations are stained and who have ex colonial problems world wide. there is no confusion we can travel freely throughout the world because we have not engaged in imposing our will on others watch how this will change when we start sending armed soldiers abroad to do europes dirty work
Lawseed, don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying, but should Ireland stand back and pontificate when thousands are being macheted in a conflict in the tropics, or innocents hijacked from ships off the coast of the horn of Africa or mass executions, ethnic cleansings and land grabs worldwide. I want Europe to have a strong muscle to support our economic and diplomatic interactions in cases of crimes against humanity. We cannot let the Yanks, Chineese, resurgent Russia etc. bully the world. Europe has for several decades been the sane voice in the crazy house.
what happens when european interests conflict with american/british interests
In this european force, which troops go in first? Is it based on historical relevance or who has the weakest economy? Will this "fodder" be fed by national service or similar?
paddy will be 1st in you can be sure. for god and enda
I see this force being used in the rarest and most pressing of situations.
yeah, like you'd have a choice.
Its good to know that should I bring my 18 month old son home, that he might be faced with the "national duty" of putting his body on the line in another mans war. He might be lucky enough to get a crowd like Robert McKibben.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
yeah, like you'd have a choice.
Its good to know that should I bring my 18 month old son home, that he might be faced with the "national duty" of putting his body on the line in another mans war. He might be lucky enough to get a crowd like Robert McKibben.
Sorry, I probably have missed something, National Duty! Did someone suggest that? I may have missed that suggestion.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 15, 2011, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 15, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
yeah, like you'd have a choice.
Its good to know that should I bring my 18 month old son home, that he might be faced with the "national duty" of putting his body on the line in another mans war. He might be lucky enough to get a crowd like Robert McKibben.
Sorry, I probably have missed something, National Duty! Did someone suggest that? I may have missed that suggestion.
you didn't miss it you ignored it, and you have yet to tell us how "you" will fulfill your obligation numbers wise to this European force. If not national service then how? There are not many McKibbens about.
mayo i cant get this quote thing to work properly so you may have missed my question. what happens when European interests conflict with American/British interests? don't think you've thought this out too well. or when the french want to do some nuclear testing near some protesting country should the Irish army go in and shut the natives up. and rouges point where are you gonna get soldiers to fight in another mans war if you don't conscript them. this gung ho attitude is great til the black bags start coming home
i suppose the irony of whats being suggested is being missed here. now we have fine gael volunteering our soldiers to fight in foreign wars and yet they are the people who lambast the Provos for trying to fight the Brits an invading army in ireland. WTF
The lying propaganda to sell the Lisbon treaty, has now been openly exposed. Once again the Constitution and Will of the people is treated as a plaything by our corrupt politicians. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. The electorate that elects FG, will be the biggest fools of all, but then we Irish were never renowned for our Brains. Our craven politicos will fight every War but their own, to win a pat on the Back from their Masters
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 09:38:54 PM
QuoteI was very much against the invasion of Iraq.
Yeah, but Leo was quite keen on it at the time.
And not being smart, but he's going to be making the decisions and you're not.
Good find LaurelEye. Certainly gives more weight to lawnseed's initial post.
I remember the comment at the time, and I remember Leo condemning the protests against the war as anti-American although I can't find anything about it on the Irish Times or Indo websites. I'm just surprised that no-one pulled him up on it when he made the comment about Blair's reputation being tainted by Iraq.
My fear really is that we are sleepwalking into giving an overall majority to a party which has no end of obsessions on particular issues - a totally uncritical take on anything coming from Europe, an enthusiasm for military alliances, a disdain for the Irish language - and where you have an up-and-coming clique of young politicians (Leo himself, Lucinda Creighton, Brian Hayes, John Deasy) who model themselves on the Tory and US Republican parties in terms of ideology. Add to that an economic plan which is based on out-of-date, over-optimistic assumptions about growth, a belief that you can remove 30,000 people from the public services simply through natural wastage and voluntary redundancies without affecting frontline services, and a health plan which is vague on details and seems to have been written in consultation with health insurance companies. And as prospective Taoiseach we have someone who has to be protected from in-depth questioning in debates in case he has to go beyond prepared slogans.
We may get a lot more than we bargained for. Actually, a lot of ordinary FG members may get a lot more than
they bargained for.
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 16, 2011, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 09:38:54 PM
QuoteI was very much against the invasion of Iraq.
Yeah, but Leo was quite keen on it at the time.
And not being smart, but he's going to be making the decisions and you're not.
Good find LaurelEye. Certainly gives more weight to lawnseed's initial post.
I remember the comment at the time, and I remember Leo condemning the protests against the war as anti-American although I can't find anything about it on the Irish Times or Indo websites. I'm just surprised that no-one pulled him up on it when he made the comment about Blair's reputation being tainted by Iraq.
My fear really is that we are sleepwalking into giving an overall majority to a party which has no end of obsessions on particular issues - a totally uncritical take on anything coming from Europe, an enthusiasm for military alliances, a disdain for the Irish language - and where you have an up-and-coming clique of young politicians (Leo himself, Lucinda Creighton, Brian Hayes, John Deasy) who model themselves on the Tory and US Republican parties in terms of ideology. Add to that an economic plan which is based on out-of-date, over-optimistic assumptions about growth, a belief that you can remove 30,000 people from the public services simply through natural wastage and voluntary redundancies without affecting frontline services, and a health plan which is vague on details and seems to have been written in consultation with health insurance companies. And as prospective Taoiseach we have someone who has to be protected from in-depth questioning in debates in case he has to go beyond prepared slogans.
We may get a lot more than we bargained for. Actually, a lot of ordinary FG members may get a lot more than they bargained for.
So a health service that has more nurses per head of population than nearly any OECD country and yet is rubbish is due to a lack of front line services??? Anyone who knows anything about the health service knows that we have thousands and thousands of administrators which are not required and the same is true in other departments.....Even the unions could promise 3/4bn Euro in savings with changes in work practices and everything else without problems.
How do they have a disdain for the Irish language?
The health plan which is based on the Dutch model which is ranked in the top 3 in the world and you say that is a wrong plan?
How about putting Gilmore or Adams or Martin up and give them a thorough grilling as well about policies and see what failures they are?
'So a health service that has more nurses per head of population than nearly any OECD country and yet is rubbish is due to a lack of front line services??? Anyone who knows anything about the health service knows that we have thousands and thousands of administrators which are not required and the same is true in other departments.....Even the unions could promise 3/4bn Euro in savings with changes in work practices and everything else without problems.'
And a really high level of Consultants...oh wait...thats not right is it? Yes administrators could be streamlined but would you not create more jobs in their place??
The comment about disdain for the Irish language is that FG intend to remove the compulsory aspect for studying Irish to leaving Cert.
All in all, FG are little more than a conservative party. They will have similar policies to the Republicans in US and the TOry party. Why does anyone expect they'll be any different?
Quote from: Poc me on February 16, 2011, 09:41:00 AM
'So a health service that has more nurses per head of population than nearly any OECD country and yet is rubbish is due to a lack of front line services??? Anyone who knows anything about the health service knows that we have thousands and thousands of administrators which are not required and the same is true in other departments.....Even the unions could promise 3/4bn Euro in savings with changes in work practices and everything else without problems.'
And a really high level of Consultants...oh wait...thats not right is it? Yes administrators could be streamlined but would you not create more jobs in their place??
The comment about disdain for the Irish language is that FG intend to remove the compulsory aspect for studying Irish to leaving Cert.
All in all, FG are little more than a conservative party. They will have similar policies to the Republicans in US and the TOry party. Why does anyone expect they'll be any different?
Where have FG ever said that there would be any reductions in front line staff??? In the model they have proposed it will be in the hospitals best interests to see more patients and treat more people quicker and more efficiently.....This model works successfully in the Netherlands and is ranked at the top of the world so detail how exactly is this wrong???
So being compulsory has worked or helped the Irish language??? It's been a total failure and has put more people off the Irish language than it has helped and the quicker people realise it the better. It will still be compulsory to do it up till Junior Cert.
So having the ideas that Govt should be smalll, we don't spend more than we earn etc and it's ideal to have everyone working and what is wrong with that?
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 16, 2011, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 09:38:54 PM
QuoteI was very much against the invasion of Iraq.
Yeah, but Leo was quite keen on it at the time.
And not being smart, but he's going to be making the decisions and you're not.
Good find LaurelEye. Certainly gives more weight to lawnseed's initial post.
I remember the comment at the time, and I remember Leo condemning the protests against the war as anti-American although I can't find anything about it on the Irish Times or Indo websites. I'm just surprised that no-one pulled him up on it when he made the comment about Blair's reputation being tainted by Iraq.
My fear really is that we are sleepwalking into giving an overall majority to a party which has no end of obsessions on particular issues - a totally uncritical take on anything coming from Europe, an enthusiasm for military alliances, a disdain for the Irish language - and where you have an up-and-coming clique of young politicians (Leo himself, Lucinda Creighton, Brian Hayes, John Deasy) who model themselves on the Tory and US Republican parties in terms of ideology. Add to that an economic plan which is based on out-of-date, over-optimistic assumptions about growth, a belief that you can remove 30,000 people from the public services simply through natural wastage and voluntary redundancies without affecting frontline services, and a health plan which is vague on details and seems to have been written in consultation with health insurance companies. And as prospective Taoiseach we have someone who has to be protected from in-depth questioning in debates in case he has to go beyond prepared slogans.
We may get a lot more than we bargained for. Actually, a lot of ordinary FG members may get a lot more than they bargained for.
Long term FF Supporter Laurel???
Nothing Dubs4Sam if your a conservative. That is conservative politics. Everything is wrong if your not a conservative. Do you not understand political ideologies?
Nearly every FG supporter on here is from Mayo (except Dubs4Sam)...there must be some amount of blue shirts on the washing lines in Ballina!
I'm far from a blue shirt supporter
Just a little joke Stephenite...
Quote from: Poc me on February 16, 2011, 10:12:52 AM
Just a little joke Stephenite...
A highly offensive one ;)
Quote from: Poc me on February 16, 2011, 10:04:10 AM
Nothing Dubs4Sam if your a conservative. That is conservative politics. Everything is wrong if your not a conservative. Do you not understand political ideologies?
Nearly every FG supporter on here is from Mayo (except Dubs4Sam)...there must be some amount of blue shirts on the washing lines in Ballina!
And every poster on here from the north (bar Evil Genius and MW if they're still around) is a SF supporter.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 16, 2011, 10:36:57 AM
Quote from: Poc me on February 16, 2011, 10:04:10 AM
Nothing Dubs4Sam if your a conservative. That is conservative politics. Everything is wrong if your not a conservative. Do you not understand political ideologies?
Nearly every FG supporter on here is from Mayo (except Dubs4Sam)...there must be some amount of blue shirts on the washing lines in Ballina!
And every poster on here from the north (bar Evil Genius and MW if they're still around) is a SF supporter.
8) f**k yeah
Oh...When did you convert, Maguire01/Gallsman?!!
Quote from: Poc me on February 16, 2011, 10:04:10 AM
Nothing Dubs4Sam if your a conservative. That is conservative politics. Everything is wrong if your not a conservative. Do you not understand political ideologies?
Nearly every FG supporter on here is from Mayo (except Dubs4Sam)...there must be some amount of blue shirts on the washing lines in Ballina!
Well we've had nearly 14 years of non-conservative government throwing money away hand over fist for nothing and look where it got us...
Quote from: Tubberman on February 16, 2011, 10:36:57 AM
Quote from: Poc me on February 16, 2011, 10:04:10 AM
Nothing Dubs4Sam if your a conservative. That is conservative politics. Everything is wrong if your not a conservative. Do you not understand political ideologies?
Nearly every FG supporter on here is from Mayo (except Dubs4Sam)...there must be some amount of blue shirts on the washing lines in Ballina!
And every poster on here from the north (bar Evil Genius and MW if they're still around) is a SF supporter.
You forgot Myles Na G ;)
Louth Const. candidates being interviewed on RTE Radio 1 now http://www.rte.ie/radio/ (http://www.rte.ie/radio/)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:20:24 AM
Louth Const. candidates being interviewed on RTE Radio 1 now http://www.rte.ie/radio/ (http://www.rte.ie/radio/)
Gerry has just been asked a member of the audience has he been a senior member of the IRA. The interview is taking place in an old Gaol!!!
Gerry said ask Eamonn Gilmore the same question, lol :D
Pretty sure the audience member is a Fianna Fáilure, Gerry now saying its like being back in Castlereagh interogation centre. It is a Gaol afterall Gerry. Bitch fight between FF & SF.
Now an Independent having a go at Gerry. They saying he arrived down with a bluffers guide to the Irish economy.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:27:22 AMNow an Independent having a go at Gerry. They saying he arrived down with a bluffers guide to the Irish economy.
written by those who implemented it?
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 16, 2011, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:27:22 AMNow an Independent having a go at Gerry. They saying he arrived down with a bluffers guide to the Irish economy.
written by those who implemented it?
It was an Independent.
Do you have anything to add to last nights discussion on the "European Force"?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:27:22 AM
Pretty sure the audience member is a Fianna Fáilure, Gerry now saying its like being back in Castlereagh interogation centre. It is a Gaol afterall Gerry. Bitch fight between FF & SF.
Now an Independent having a go at Gerry. They saying he arrived down with a bluffers guide to the Irish economy.
that is starting to irk me, it can't be any more fanciful than the current bunch of balloons who have ran it into the ground, more front than newcastle promenade
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 16, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
Do you have anything to add to last nights discussion on the "European Force"?
I gave my opinion.
Fianna Fáil are some craic!!! They push the DUP and UUP into government with Sinn Féin and tell them to move forward and forget about the past, yet when Gerry comes to Louth they bring up the same old shit about his past in the IRA. It just goes to show that they are completely shitting themselves. Reverting to good old west Brit politics to preserve their position as the Republican Party....hypocrisy at its highest.
Most people on here from the north do tend to be SF supporters yes, i wouldn't count myself as a supporter of SF or any political party to be honest but I do have sympathies with them given the contempt with which they are being treated in 26 county politics.
Now lets have an answer...is the contempt for SF simply to do with their economic policies or is the fact that Gerry has come from the 'north' and additional reason to hate him?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 16, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
Do you have anything to add to last nights discussion on the "European Force"?
I gave my opinion.
basically what you said is that you didnt expect it to be used much , and are happy with the fact that Irish troops would be at the beck and call of someone else in Europe - fightig another mans war - is that it?
You gave no opinion on how "you" (as in FG) would recruit to this army or indeed to the question on how the deployment of any troops would be managed.
What "you" seem to be saying is come lads it wil be grand, sure they will never ask us to go and fight...
Quote from: Poc me on February 16, 2011, 12:12:21 PM
Fianna Fáil are some craic!!! They push the DUP and UUP into government with Sinn Féin and tell them to move forward and forget about the past, yet when Gerry comes to Louth they bring up the same old shit about his past in the IRA. It just goes to show that they are completely shitting themselves. Reverting to good old west Brit politics to preserve their position as the Republican Party....hypocrisy at its highest.
Most people on here from the north do tend to be SF supporters yes, i wouldn't count myself as a supporter of SF or any political party to be honest but I do have sympathies with them given the contempt with which they are being treated in 26 county politics.
Now lets have an answer...is the contempt for SF simply to do with their economic policies or is the fact that Gerry has come from the 'north' and additional reason to hate him?
What would Charlie say?
Quote from: Banana Man on February 16, 2011, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:27:22 AM
Pretty sure the audience member is a Fianna Fáilure, Gerry now saying its like being back in Castlereagh interogation centre. It is a Gaol afterall Gerry. Bitch fight between FF & SF.
Now an Independent having a go at Gerry. They saying he arrived down with a bluffers guide to the Irish economy.
that is starting to irk me, it can't be any more fanciful than the current bunch of balloons who have ran it into the ground, more front than newcastle promenade
I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree that the policies and idiocy of the current incumbents is the reason we're in this monumental mess.
The solution? Sinn Féin harp on about unilaterally 'burning the bondholders'. Sounds great, but what happens next? How will we pay to run the country? Do the markets have short memories? If (part of) the solution was that simple would we not have done it already or does it just sound too good to be true?
I'm no economics expert and I don't have the answers to these questions. However, I'd expect any party that would hope to implement such a policy to have the answers. If people perceive that they have not received satisfactory answers to these questions then they will naturally question Sinn Féin's economic policies.
Quote from: stephenite on February 16, 2011, 09:57:07 AM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 16, 2011, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 15, 2011, 09:41:23 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 15, 2011, 09:38:54 PM
QuoteI was very much against the invasion of Iraq.
Yeah, but Leo was quite keen on it at the time.
And not being smart, but he's going to be making the decisions and you're not.
Good find LaurelEye. Certainly gives more weight to lawnseed's initial post.
I remember the comment at the time, and I remember Leo condemning the protests against the war as anti-American although I can't find anything about it on the Irish Times or Indo websites. I'm just surprised that no-one pulled him up on it when he made the comment about Blair's reputation being tainted by Iraq.
My fear really is that we are sleepwalking into giving an overall majority to a party which has no end of obsessions on particular issues - a totally uncritical take on anything coming from Europe, an enthusiasm for military alliances, a disdain for the Irish language - and where you have an up-and-coming clique of young politicians (Leo himself, Lucinda Creighton, Brian Hayes, John Deasy) who model themselves on the Tory and US Republican parties in terms of ideology. Add to that an economic plan which is based on out-of-date, over-optimistic assumptions about growth, a belief that you can remove 30,000 people from the public services simply through natural wastage and voluntary redundancies without affecting frontline services, and a health plan which is vague on details and seems to have been written in consultation with health insurance companies. And as prospective Taoiseach we have someone who has to be protected from in-depth questioning in debates in case he has to go beyond prepared slogans.
We may get a lot more than we bargained for. Actually, a lot of ordinary FG members may get a lot more than they bargained for.
Long term FF Supporter Laurel???
Reynolds got a number 1 from me in 1997 on account of the work he did on the peace process and because I thought he'd been treated shabbily during the collapse of the FF-Lab coalition, but I then transferred elsewhere. Otherwise not before or since.
I don't see much difference between FF and FG, frankly, and generally rank their candidates based on how much use I think they'd be in the Dáil. My worry is that we're buying a pig in a poke, just as we did at the last election. We are heading for a continuation (intensified if anything) of the same policies of the last three years with the same likely results.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 16, 2011, 12:24:29 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on February 16, 2011, 11:53:46 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:27:22 AM
Pretty sure the audience member is a Fianna Fáilure, Gerry now saying its like being back in Castlereagh interogation centre. It is a Gaol afterall Gerry. Bitch fight between FF & SF.
Now an Independent having a go at Gerry. They saying he arrived down with a bluffers guide to the Irish economy.
that is starting to irk me, it can't be any more fanciful than the current bunch of balloons who have ran it into the ground, more front than newcastle promenade
I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree that the policies and idiocy of the current incumbents is the reason we're in this monumental mess.
The solution? Sinn Féin harp on about unilaterally 'burning the bondholders'. Sounds great, but what happens next? How will we pay to run the country? Do the markets have short memories? If (part of) the solution was that simple would we not have done it already or does it just sound too good to be true?
I'm no economics expert and I don't have the answers to these questions. However, I'd expect any party that would hope to implement such a policy to have the answers. If people perceive that they have not received satisfactory answers to these questions then they will naturally question Sinn Féin's economic policies.
It's a fair point DH and i would agree with you, an i wouldn't be an economics expert myself but thats not what i'm driving at.
Whats happening, is that people, sorry rival TD's and their supporters in the press are baracking and shouting down SF saying the proposals are fanciful and made up etc but that's it, the surface isn't even scratched of their proposals, it isn't looked into, the shinners respond with ''the dept of finance have fully costed our proposals'' and that's it, it never gets any further than a slanging match.
How did Iceland and Argentina manage to do it? not directing it at you DH as we both profess to know little about it, but can someone tell me why we can't burn the bondholders when others can??
Local labour candidate arrived at my mate's house last night, would not confirm that labour would not go into govt with FF!!!!! Did however say that they would not countenance any coalition with SF (presumably because there's still some bad blood over the split 30 odd years ago).
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:21:26 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 11:20:24 AM
Louth Const. candidates being interviewed on RTE Radio 1 now http://www.rte.ie/radio/ (http://www.rte.ie/radio/)
Gerry has just been asked a member of the audience has he been a senior member of the IRA. The interview is taking place in an old Gaol!!!
I was looking forward to listening to this as it's being mentioned on loads of other forums. Apparently the member of the audience John 'Jumbo' Kierans, editor of the "Irish" Daily Mirror. For some reason the usual podcast for this portion of the show has not being made available.
Our predictions have completed Leinster, and Sinn Fein are still making a very impressive showing. I do think I should put a caveat that our margin for error is +/- Ulster :D Seriously though, I think people are completely overestimating Sinn Fein's performance down here, or else you are deliberately trying to predict wrong!
Even so, it is interesting in that it is showing a FG and Labour Coalition with 51% of the 72 seats so far. Obviously Sinn Fein's 20% of the seats are probably at the expense of Labour largely in our predictions. Interesting too that FF are holding steady enough in the Mid - Low 20%s of the seats.
72 seats predicted so Far
Fine Gael - 29
Fianna Fail - 16
Sinn Fein - 14
Labour - 8
Others - 5
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-3.jpg)
The results for the last 5 Leinster constituencies
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const1415.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const1617.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const18.jpg)
AZOffaly, I am not sure if you are capturing the likely effect of transfers e.g. in Louth when one of the Labour people is eliminated the other would get most of the transfers and pass out the FF guy.
also http://www.boards.ie/vote for a similar exercise. This one probably overstates Labour support and understates FG and FF support because of the age groups etc involved.
Shinner prospects are overstated here, although they may indeed exceed FF!
As per de Indo
Last night, one of the country's leading political science experts, NUI Maynooth's Dr Adrian Kavanagh, said if the results of the opinion poll were repeated on polling day on Friday week, February 25, the allocation of Dail seat numbers would be:
* Fianna Fail 13 TDs.
* Fine Gael 78 TDs.
* Labour 42 TDs.
* Green Party 0 TDs.
* Sinn Fein 13 TDs.
* Independents 20 TDs
First candidate home in those 5 constituencies are all going to be Sinners, I don't know whether to :D or ::)
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2011, 05:07:58 PM
AZOffaly, I am not sure if you are capturing the likely effect of transfers e.g. in Louth when one of the Labour people is eliminated the other would get most of the transfers and pass out the FF guy.
also http://www.boards.ie/vote for a similar exercise. This one probably overstates Labour support and understates FG and FF support because of the age groups etc involved.
Shinner prospects are overstated here, although they may indeed exceed FF!
As per de Indo
Last night, one of the country's leading political science experts, NUI Maynooth's Dr Adrian Kavanagh, said if the results of the opinion poll were repeated on polling day on Friday week, February 25, the allocation of Dail seat numbers would be:
* Fianna Fail 13 TDs.
* Fine Gael 78 TDs.
* Labour 42 TDs.
* Green Party 0 TDs.
* Sinn Fein 13 TDs.
* Independents 20 TDs
It's not up to me to capture transfers. Ye are predicting the seats won, so presumably ye are considering the likely transfers. I know I am. Again, this is not supposed to be a popularity poll, or who you *want* to see win. It is an exercise to see how close, or more likely far, the people on this board are from the general public, or at least the electorate in the Republic. I have a feeling we may not be a million miles out if we were to take half the Sinn Fein seats and give them to Labour at this stage.
Quote from: Banana Man on February 16, 2011, 01:40:07 PM
How did Iceland and Argentina manage to do it? not directing it at you DH as we both profess to know little about it, but can someone tell me why we can't burn the bondholders when others can??
It wasn't pretty there either. Iceland had interest rates at 18% - I wouldn't like to be paying a mortgage with that rate. Not sure what they're doing now for capital.
I don't know the detail but I was of the understanding that Argentina either couldn't go to the bondmarkets or were having to pay ludicrous rates to borrow after defaulting.
There's no easy solution, but these are the things that people aren't told as part of the 'burn the bondholders' strategy. It's not that anyone actually wants to pay them, it's just the consequences of not doing so.
http://www.votomatic.ie/Test.aspx
G'wan, give it a go!
My result:
You are a hardcore Labour Party supporter.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2011, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on February 16, 2011, 01:40:07 PM
How did Iceland and Argentina manage to do it? not directing it at you DH as we both profess to know little about it, but can someone tell me why we can't burn the bondholders when others can??
It wasn't pretty there either. Iceland had interest rates at 18% - I wouldn't like to be paying a mortgage with that rate. Not sure what they're doing now for capital.
I don't know the detail but I was of the understanding that Argentina either couldn't go to the bondmarkets or were having to pay ludicrous rates to borrow after defaulting.
There's no easy solution, but these are the things that people aren't told as part of the 'burn the bondholders' strategy. It's not that anyone actually wants to pay them, it's just the consequences of not doing so.
Argentina was run by the military up to their crisis, they seized the pensions and froze the bank accounts of all of its citizens. They tried to seize foreign assets of citizens to pay the government debts. There was 18% unemployment, riots, many deaths.
They could only achieve the above as they had their own currency. Their ten year bond rates are down to around 9% now which is crisis level for us.
Argentina is not the way we want to go.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2011, 07:17:07 PM
http://www.votomatic.ie/Test.aspx
G'wan, give it a go!
My result:
You are a hardcore Labour Party supporter.
My result:
You are a hardcore supporter of the hairy lesbians party
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2011, 07:17:07 PM
http://www.votomatic.ie/Test.aspx
G'wan, give it a go!
My result:
You are a hardcore Labour Party supporter.
You are compatible with the Labour Party. You are also close to Fine Gael.
SF was next interestingly. My ideology is taken from both sides depending on the issue so it can bring up interesting results. I was furthest from FF, thank God.
I'm hardcore Sinn Fein apparently. Good stuff, 20% of seats in the GAA Board predictions. Next up was Labour, then Fine Gael, Fianna Fail last for me too.
Mostly compatible with sinn fein on 16, labour next in 15, greens next on 0, fg on -3, ff on -12. Not a bad reflection of my thinking at the moment.
SF 8
Lab 7 :o
FG 0
Greens -5
FF -11
It says I'm hard to please though!
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 16, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
Do you have anything to add to last nights discussion on the "European Force"?
I gave my opinion.
mayo you know i value your opinion but you dodged both mine and diablo questions about the involvement of irish troops in the european force and you are also side stepping the fact that at the time of lisbon 1 and 2 all of the pro lisbon parties assured the isih people that a yes would not lead to our participation in this 'farce'. the announcment of this now is a major electorial boob so you can expect gerry and co to pick up on it. please answer
Decent enough debate on TG4. Thought all three had a decent grasp of the language although Enda not as slick as some had expected and I don't think his policy for the Leaving Cert will have helped him.
This is worth a laugh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yieS7jWWdB8&feature=player_embedded
You are compatible with the Labour Party. You are also close to Fine Gael. :o
FF -5 SF -7
surprise! im a shinner with labour leanings
ps did anyone watch vincent browne last night he interviewed john gormley, who and this is extraordinary said that biffo was taking advice on the bank gaurantee from none other than DAVID MCWILLIAMS :o :o.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2011, 08:07:13 PM
This is worth a laugh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yieS7jWWdB8&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yieS7jWWdB8&feature=player_embedded)
:D :D
FF -4
FG 11
LP 6
GP 8 :o
SF -4
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 08:20:44 PM
surprise! im a shinner with labour leanings
ps did anyone watch vincent browne last night he interviewed john gormley, who and this is extraordinary said that biffo was taking advice on the bank gaurantee from none other than DAVID MCWILLIAMS :o :o.
I doubt that given that McWilliams is a huge critic of government policy and actually is on record agreeing with Sinn Feins policy on finance.
gormley says he was there, WTF :o unbelieveable claim i cant believe browne didnt pull him up.
yes myles just watched it again on catch up the blanket gaurantee WAS david mc williams idea, and was refered to in the negotiations as the 'mcwilliams option' crazy stuff
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2011, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2011, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on February 16, 2011, 01:40:07 PM
How did Iceland and Argentina manage to do it? not directing it at you DH as we both profess to know little about it, but can someone tell me why we can't burn the bondholders when others can??
It wasn't pretty there either. Iceland had interest rates at 18% - I wouldn't like to be paying a mortgage with that rate. Not sure what they're doing now for capital.
I don't know the detail but I was of the understanding that Argentina either couldn't go to the bondmarkets or were having to pay ludicrous rates to borrow after defaulting.
There's no easy solution, but these are the things that people aren't told as part of the 'burn the bondholders' strategy. It's not that anyone actually wants to pay them, it's just the consequences of not doing so.
Argentina was run by the military up to their crisis, they seized the pensions and froze the bank accounts of all of its citizens. They tried to seize foreign assets of citizens to pay the government debts. There was 18% unemployment, riots, many deaths.
They could only achieve the above as they had their own currency. Their ten year bond rates are down to around 9% now which is crisis level for us.
Argentina is not the way we want to go.
i don't know a lot about the crisis, but surely the military was overthrown (stepped down) shortly aftert the falklands war, sometime around the mid-80'S?
FF -6
FG -8
LP 19
GP -5
SF 31
Always presumed I'd be close to the Greens. They must be even more looney than I thought.
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 08:56:38 PM
gormley says he was there, WTF :o unbelieveable claim i cant believe browne didnt pull him up.
yes myles just watched it again on catch up the blanket gaurantee WAS david mc williams idea, and was refered to in the negotiations as the 'mcwilliams option' crazy stuff
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 08:56:38 PM
gormley says he was there, WTF :o unbelieveable claim i cant believe browne didnt pull him up
McWilliams advised Lenihan, his hands are not clean however he says his advise was not quite what was actually implemented. Merrill Lynch said the same thing.
Fianna Faill cherry picked what suited them from the advice and now claim that they followed it.
absolutely crazy stuff I'm shocked. get the Brits back we obviously cannot run our own country. not one of these wankers has a clue
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 09:28:00 PM
absolutely crazy stuff I'm shocked. get the Brits back we obviously cannot run our own country. not one of these w**kers has a clue
ps gormley has actually gone up imo at least hes spilling the beans
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 09:22:35 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 08:56:38 PM
gormley says he was there, WTF :o unbelieveable claim i cant believe browne didnt pull him up.
yes myles just watched it again on catch up the blanket gaurantee WAS david mc williams idea, and was refered to in the negotiations as the 'mcwilliams option' crazy stuff
Is this the same McWilliams that Ulick was directing us all to in relation to his 'support' for SF's strategy?
I think he does broadly agree with SF now. I'd say he's a bit embarrassed about his input that night now.
I hate celebrity economists.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2011, 07:17:07 PM
http://www.votomatic.ie/Test.aspx
G'wan, give it a go!
My result:
You are a hardcore Labour Party supporter.
Fine Gael 12
Labour 10
Greens 7
Fianna Fáil -2
Sein Fein -4
As I expected I am a Social Democrat with some Conservative leanings.
A bank guarantee is not sovereign debt.
McWilliams reasoning was sound enough in 2008 from his capitalist perspective, for a country with no sovereign control over its own currency.
McWilliams oct 19 2008
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2008/10/19/bank-guarantee-will-mean-survival-of-the-weakest (http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2008/10/19/bank-guarantee-will-mean-survival-of-the-weakest)
BANK GUARANTEE WILL MEAN SURVIVAL OF THE WEAKEST
In arguing for the guarantee, this column understood that it would be part of a process which would lead to a better banking system in the years ahead. Underpinning such confidence was the expectation that the government would act in the national interest, rather than in the banks' interest.
In addition, the working assumption was that 'bad' banks would not be rewarded for their 'bad' behaviour. However, now that the details of the guarantee have been published, we see a clause which has the potential to insulate those banks which behaved most recklessly and lumber those banks which are stronger with the sins of the others.
Labour 10
Sinners 8
FG 0
GP 0
FF -8
The wife is very compatible with FF apparently, I'll get a few days out of that one.
Labour 15
SF 15
Greens 1
FF -8
FG -9
Not really that surprised to be honest.
No comment needed.
http://www.politics.ie/political-humour/152560-fianna-fail-anarchist-party.html (http://www.politics.ie/political-humour/152560-fianna-fail-anarchist-party.html)
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 08:03:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 16, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
Do you have anything to add to last nights discussion on the "European Force"?
I gave my opinion.
mayo you know i value your opinion but you dodged both mine and diablo questions about the involvement of irish troops in the european force and you are also side stepping the fact that at the time of lisbon 1 and 2 all of the pro lisbon parties assured the isih people that a yes would not lead to our participation in this 'farce'. the announcment of this now is a major electorial boob so you can expect gerry and co to pick up on it. please answer
I would hope anyone who suspects who I am will keep it to themselves, especially with what I am about to say, which will make it obvious for some. I am a raving Republican in both meanings of the word, the International and the Nordie meaning. I want a United Ireland, but with the will of all the Irish people, Green, Orange and all in between. I am an Nationalist, because I believe in the greatness of the Irish nation, I (seperatly) believe in the greatness of the Irish Republic. But this is how I will probably give myslelf away, I am a frontline worker in the British public service, yet I believe that policies of the right are better. I am an Nurse. I am a pacifist, but I WILL INLIST in the Irish Army as a Nurse if they are called into European Rapid Reaction Force Operations. I will die for Ireland and Europe but I will kill for neither.
Micheal Collins is my hero. I believe Fine Gael speak the most sense, I believe Fine Gael are the only true Republicans in Ireland, I believe we are good not bad nationalists, I believe we reach out to our Unionists brothers more than anyone else to unite the Irish people in an Irish nation, I believe Fine Gael is the solution to Fianna Fail corruption, I believe in Enda and Fine Gael.
So you have recruit number 1. I will die for Ireland, I will die for Europe, but I will kill for no man, woman, nation or ideal.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 17, 2011, 02:57:58 AM
I would hope anyone who suspects who I am will keep it to themselves, especially with what I am about to say, which will make it obvious for some. I am a raving Republican in both meanings of the word, the International and the Nordie meaning. I want a United Ireland, but with the will of all the Irish people, Green, Orange and all in between. I am an Nationalist, because I believe in the greatness of the Irish nation, I (seperatly) believe in the greatness of the Irish Republic. But this is how I will probably give myslelf away, I am a frontline worker in the British public service, yet I believe that policies of the right are better. I am an Nurse. I am a pacifist, but I WILL INLIST in the Irish Army as a Nurse if they are called into European Rapid Reaction Force Operations. I will die for Ireland and Europe but I will kill for neither.
Micheal Collins is my hero. I believe Fine Gael speak the most sense, I believe Fine Gael are the only true Republicans in Ireland, I believe we are good not bad nationalists, I believe we reach out to our Unionists brothers more than anyone else to unite the Irish people in an Irish nation, I believe Fine Gael is the solution to Fianna Fail corruption, I believe in Enda and Fine Gael.
So you have recruit number 1. I will die for Ireland, I will die for Europe, but I will kill for no man, woman, nation or ideal.
Well thats wondefully poetic and numerous other things too, however none of the above explains how "You" as in FG will find the rest of recruits. Are we looking at national service? And there is still no answers as to which countries troops gets sent in first, maybe its the ones with the biggest debt- call it a debt reduction service?
The country are looking for something real , and quite frankly your heart clutching speech is a million miles away from that. How real are the rest of FG (or indeed anyones) policies?
Talk about a European strike force as an election issue is scare-mongering rubbish intended to deflect attention away from SF and real issues.
But answer the question about who'd be sent in first, 'twould be the Nordies of course, sure what free stater would have any experience with guns :)
Quote from: stephenite on February 17, 2011, 08:16:56 AM
Talk about a European strike force as an election issue is scare-mongering rubbish intended to deflect attention away from SF and real issues.
But answer the question about who'd be sent in first, 'twould be the Nordies of course, sure what free stater would have any experience with guns :)
Is that going to be the stock answer whenever anyone questions a FG policy?
Quote from: muppet on February 17, 2011, 02:27:43 AM
No comment needed.
http://www.politics.ie/political-humour/152560-fianna-fail-anarchist-party.html (http://www.politics.ie/political-humour/152560-fianna-fail-anarchist-party.html)
other than '6 hours too late'
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=17925.msg919087#msg919087
FG 16
FF 13
Green 13
SF -4
Lab -5
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 10:14:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 16, 2011, 07:17:07 PM
http://www.votomatic.ie/Test.aspx
G'wan, give it a go!
My result:
You are a hardcore Labour Party supporter.
Fine Gael 12
Labour 10
Greens 7
Fianna Fáil -2
Sein Fein -4
As I expected I am a Social Democrat with some Conservative leanings.
You are a hardcore FG supporter. >:(
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 17, 2011, 08:54:45 AM
You are a hardcore FG supporter. >:(
but thats what mammy and daddy did.....
Had an interesting chat with an independent candidate last night. He's getting a good response on the doorsteps he said as people are fed up with the main parties.
In what was traditionally 2 FF/FG area - Now Meath East - The consistent message he's getting is that no one wants to vote FF and this down from a vote of 10K plus for Mary Wallace in 2007. Also as he said himself a surprising number of people giving SF no.1s. If that is replicated across the country we could have a FG led minority gov with a strong SF/ULA led number of "left wing" candidates in oppostion
Question away Rouge but FFS keep it relevant. You want to hammer the blue shirts on real policies like the bail out, health or education that's great but if you're going to come up with "what if" scenarios expect than I'll question it and your motivations
Quote from: stephenite on February 17, 2011, 09:15:46 AM
Question away Rouge but FFS keep it relevant. You want to hammer the blue shirts on real policies like the bail out, health or education that's great but if you're going to come up with "what if" scenarios expect than I'll question it and your motivations
I didnt create that particular topic, and its on the thread so its relevant. I (and others ) chose to question it. There are plenty of other topics to work on too!
As for my motivations on that particular topic, I already stated it on here already- my son, and how the potential of conscription/national service will impact on his life.
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 17, 2011, 08:56:07 AM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 17, 2011, 08:54:45 AM
You are a hardcore FG supporter. >:(
but thats what mammy and daddy did.....
They are set to gain almost 30 seats in this election (and about 50 from 2002 election), so it certainly not a case of people voting as their parents did.
Quote from: Tubberman on February 17, 2011, 09:38:42 AM
They are set to gain almost 30 seats in this election (and about 50 from 2002 election), so it certainly not a case of people voting as their parents did.
To clarify, my post was in relations to MGHU result in the test compared to their public preference, as opposed to a general observation.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 17, 2011, 02:57:58 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 08:03:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2011, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: Rouge_Diablo on February 16, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
Do you have anything to add to last nights discussion on the "European Force"?
I gave my opinion.
mayo you know i value your opinion but you dodged both mine and diablo questions about the involvement of irish troops in the european force and you are also side stepping the fact that at the time of lisbon 1 and 2 all of the pro lisbon parties assured the isih people that a yes would not lead to our participation in this 'farce'. the announcment of this now is a major electorial boob so you can expect gerry and co to pick up on it. please answer
I would hope anyone who suspects who I am will keep it to themselves, especially with what I am about to say, which will make it obvious for some. I am a raving Republican in both meanings of the word, the International and the Nordie meaning. I want a United Ireland, but with the will of all the Irish people, Green, Orange and all in between. I am an Nationalist, because I believe in the greatness of the Irish nation, I (seperatly) believe in the greatness of the Irish Republic. But this is how I will probably give myslelf away, I am a frontline worker in the British public service, yet I believe that policies of the right are better. I am an Nurse. I am a pacifist, but I WILL INLIST in the Irish Army as a Nurse if they are called into European Rapid Reaction Force Operations. I will die for Ireland and Europe but I will kill for neither.
Micheal Collins is my hero. I believe Fine Gael speak the most sense, I believe Fine Gael are the only true Republicans in Ireland, I believe we are good not bad nationalists, I believe we reach out to our Unionists brothers more than anyone else to unite the Irish people in an Irish nation, I believe Fine Gael is the solution to Fianna Fail corruption, I believe in Enda and Fine Gael.
So you have recruit number 1. I will die for Ireland, I will die for Europe, but I will kill for no man, woman, nation or ideal.
so you'll be firing blanks!!! :D
Quote from: stephenite on February 17, 2011, 08:16:56 AM
Talk about a European strike force as an election issue is scare-mongering rubbish intended to deflect attention away from SF and real issues.But answer the question about who'd be sent in first, 'twould be the Nordies of course, sure what free stater would have any experience with guns :)
You're right. There are more important things to be worried about in this climate than the possibility of Irish men and women being sent into action in a European Strike Action Force.
The 26 counties are in financial meltdown so we really should all be talking about the issue which FF and the papers are currently trying to make the main talking point of this election....
WAS GERRY ADAMS EVER IN THE IRA??
Mayo God Help Us...
'FG are the only true republican party...'
Statement of the week.
Now whether you see the term in the international sense or the 'nordie' sense as you said it kinda gets blown out of the water by the triumphal visit of her majesty in the near future that has been completely endorsed by the one and only Enda Kenny. In fact he said the visit was overdue.
Now we'll deal with the 'Nordie' point first and the fact that a Queen of our former oppressors should not be invited to our country until she gives it all back etc etc. Is it sheer coincidence that she'd be coming over in the midst of a serious crisis maybe to give the condescending 'there there' pat on the back...'we told you that you couldn't manage it without us'...then there is the commemoration of the visit of the Famine Quene to Kerry...i'll not say any more on that.
THe international viewpoint then:
What republic should give over all her time and money in security (especially when it is struggling financially) to a monarch of another country. It is completely against the ideologies of a republic. A true republican (in the international sense of the word) would not want a monarch from any other country never mind England. They are people who do F**k all and get every privilege that society has to offer simply because they are from a certain family...they should be seen for what they are...a work shy, in-bred shower.
Quote from: Declan on February 17, 2011, 09:03:16 AM
Had an interesting chat with an independent candidate last night. He's getting a good response on the doorsteps he said as people are fed up with the main parties.
In what was traditionally 2 FF/FG area - Now Meath East - The consistent message he's getting is that no one wants to vote FF and this down from a vote of 10K plus for Mary Wallace in 2007. Also as he said himself a surprising number of people giving SF no.1s. If that is replicated across the country we could have a FG led minority gov with a strong SF/ULA led number of "left wing" candidates in oppostion
Don't think the polls are signifying that Declan?
Though the poll on boards.ie is (see below). Depends on who you ask I suppose!
Boards.ie current prediction:
FG 45
Lab 40
SF 19
Ind 16
Greens 4
ULA 4
FF 3 ;D (Aylward, Martin, Kirk)
This does not include the "results" for 10 constituencies covering 35 seats, where they deem they have not yet received enough votes.
nothings going to change nally.. gerry should tell them to shove it.. they just cant see where its going. their blinded by greed and self image.. i pity them. they talk the talk but thats where it ends.. bob geldof called it banana republic, sceptic isle.. so sad
Quote from: lawnseed on February 17, 2011, 11:00:23 AM
nothings going to change nally.. gerry should tell them to shove it.. they just cant see where its going. their blinded by greed and self image.. i pity them. they talk the talk but thats where it ends.. bob geldof called it banana republic, sceptic isle.. so sad
If only Britian ruled us, then we could blame them for everything, yet take all their monies and in the main work in their public service. ::)
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 17, 2011, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 17, 2011, 11:00:23 AM
nothings going to change nally.. gerry should tell them to shove it.. they just cant see where its going. their blinded by greed and self image.. i pity them. they talk the talk but thats where it ends.. bob geldof called it banana republic, sceptic isle.. so sad
If only Britian ruled us, then we could blame them for everything, yet take all their monies and in the main work in their public service. ::)
Sure Germany rules ye now
Quote from: Poc me on February 17, 2011, 10:57:07 AM
Mayo God Help Us...
'FG are the only true republican party...'
Statement of the week.
Now whether you see the term in the international sense or the 'nordie' sense as you said it kinda gets blown out of the water by the triumphal visit of her majesty in the near future that has been completely endorsed by the one and only Enda Kenny. In fact he said the visit was overdue.
Now we'll deal with the 'Nordie' point first and the fact that a Queen of our former oppressors should not be invited to our country until she gives it all back etc etc. Is it sheer coincidence that she'd be coming over in the midst of a serious crisis maybe to give the condescending 'there there' pat on the back...'we told you that you couldn't manage it without us'...then there is the commemoration of the visit of the Famine Quene to Kerry...i'll not say any more on that.
THe international viewpoint then:
What republic should give over all her time and money in security (especially when it is struggling financially) to a monarch of another country. It is completely against the ideologies of a republic. A true republican (in the international sense of the word) would not want a monarch from any other country never mind England. They are people who do F**k all and get every privilege that society has to offer simply because they are from a certain family...they should be seen for what they are...a work shy, in-bred shower.
We need a revolution in Ireland but it won't happen because all Irish revolutions to date have been driven by the Republicans who are aligned to the extreme left. The rest won't join them and the rest don't have anyone to rally around.
Even just reading this website it can be seen that Republicanism Irish style seems inextricably tied to extreme left thinking. That is a major handicap to achieving any real change in the South.
Muppet I hardly think John Mitchell could be aligned to the extreme left or indeed any of the leaders in the 18th/19th century. egalitarians yes, but hardly communists. The 19th century rebellions were driven by Nationalism as the core objective but nationalism tends to be associated with right wing politics in other parts of the world. I do agree though that revolutionary politics in Ireland is aligned to the left as is most revolutionary politics. The problems in the past were not class struggles, they were national struggles against an oppressor. The Irish people are conservative at heart, a trait replicated in other largely agrarian societies (I appreciate that Ireland is becoming less agrarian over the past 30 years).
The last 'revolution' was 1917-1921 and the outcome was a very clerical, conservative state that was cemented in the Constituion (with the privileged position of the CHurch). Not the traits of a left wing revolution.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 17, 2011, 11:53:48 AM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 17, 2011, 11:33:45 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 17, 2011, 11:00:23 AM
nothings going to change nally.. gerry should tell them to shove it.. they just cant see where its going. their blinded by greed and self image.. i pity them. they talk the talk but thats where it ends.. bob geldof called it banana republic, sceptic isle.. so sad
If only Britian ruled us, then we could blame them for everything, yet take all their monies and in the main work in their public service. ::)
Sure Germany rules ye now
Great, we can blame them.
QuoteDon't think the polls are signifying that Declan?
I think a lot will depend on the how the last seats pan out in the constituencies myself.
Quote from: Poc me on February 17, 2011, 12:23:07 PM
Muppet I hardly think John Mitchell could be aligned to the extreme left or indeed any of the leaders in the 18th/19th century. egalitarians yes, but hardly communists. The 19th century rebellions were driven by Nationalism as the core objective but nationalism tends to be associated with right wing politics in other parts of the world. I do agree though that revolutionary politics in Ireland is aligned to the left as is most revolutionary politics. The problems in the past were not class struggles, they were national struggles against an oppressor. The Irish people are conservative at heart, a trait replicated in other largely agrarian societies (I appreciate that Ireland is becoming less agrarian over the past 30 years).
The last 'revolution' was 1917-1921 and the outcome was a very clerical, conservative state that was cemented in the Constituion (with the privileged position of the CHurch). Not the traits of a left wing revolution.
The outcome is one thing. 1916 was the trigger and those leaders weren't hiding their left leanings.
The question is today can you be a Republican and on the right? Because it certainly doesn't look like it.
A Republican and on the right? I would say it is possible in the simplest definition of "Republican", but "Irish Republicanism" has developed into a political ideology in it's own right and is grounded in the left.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 17, 2011, 01:23:50 PM
A Republican and on the right? I would say it is possible in the simplest definition of "Republican", but "Irish Republicanism" has developed into a political ideology in it's own right and is grounded in the left.
It will remain a fringe group with that thinking.
Look at the lunacy of the wealth tax proposal for example. What has that got to do with Republicanism?
Quote from: muppet on February 17, 2011, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: Poc me on February 17, 2011, 12:23:07 PM
Muppet I hardly think John Mitchell could be aligned to the extreme left or indeed any of the leaders in the 18th/19th century. egalitarians yes, but hardly communists. The 19th century rebellions were driven by Nationalism as the core objective but nationalism tends to be associated with right wing politics in other parts of the world. I do agree though that revolutionary politics in Ireland is aligned to the left as is most revolutionary politics. The problems in the past were not class struggles, they were national struggles against an oppressor. The Irish people are conservative at heart, a trait replicated in other largely agrarian societies (I appreciate that Ireland is becoming less agrarian over the past 30 years).
The last 'revolution' was 1917-1921 and the outcome was a very clerical, conservative state that was cemented in the Constituion (with the privileged position of the CHurch). Not the traits of a left wing revolution.
The outcome is one thing. 1916 was the trigger and those leaders weren't hiding their left leanings.
The question is today can you be a Republican and on the right? Because it certainly doesn't look like it.
Mayo GHU thinks you can be a republican on the right! :D FF are a right wing party (based on capitalist principles) and claim to be the republican party.
Personally speaking I think you can be slightly on the right and still be a republican. You can be anti-monarchy, in favour of an egalitarian society and ensure that there are equal rights etc. People ahve lost sight of what political ideologies actually stand for. In the north for example and SDLP member probably wouldn't want to be declared republican as it may align them with SF but they would be republican in political objectives (SDLP members may well see themselves as Republican but feel aggrieved that they can't call themselves such).
Quote from: Poc me on February 17, 2011, 12:23:07 PM
Muppet I hardly think John Mitchell could be aligned to the extreme left or indeed any of the leaders in the 18th/19th century. egalitarians yes, but hardly communists. The 19th century rebellions were driven by Nationalism as the core objective but nationalism tends to be associated with right wing politics in other parts of the world. I do agree though that revolutionary politics in Ireland is aligned to the left as is most revolutionary politics. The problems in the past were not class struggles, they were national struggles against an oppressor. The Irish people are conservative at heart, a trait replicated in other largely agrarian societies (I appreciate that Ireland is becoming less agrarian over the past 30 years).
The last 'revolution' was 1917-1921 and the outcome was a very clerical, conservative state that was cemented in the Constituion (with the privileged position of the CHurch). Not the traits of a left wing revolution.
Mitchell was hardly egalitarian, he fought for the south in the american civil war and the shinners have only recently joined the left front, was that not one of the driving factors behind the split from Labour (the Workers Party) originally?
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 17, 2011, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: Poc me on February 17, 2011, 12:23:07 PM
Muppet I hardly think John Mitchell could be aligned to the extreme left or indeed any of the leaders in the 18th/19th century. egalitarians yes, but hardly communists. The 19th century rebellions were driven by Nationalism as the core objective but nationalism tends to be associated with right wing politics in other parts of the world. I do agree though that revolutionary politics in Ireland is aligned to the left as is most revolutionary politics. The problems in the past were not class struggles, they were national struggles against an oppressor. The Irish people are conservative at heart, a trait replicated in other largely agrarian societies (I appreciate that Ireland is becoming less agrarian over the past 30 years).
The last 'revolution' was 1917-1921 and the outcome was a very clerical, conservative state that was cemented in the Constituion (with the privileged position of the CHurch). Not the traits of a left wing revolution.
Mitchell was hardly egalitarian, he fought for the south in the american civil war and the shinners have only recently joined the left front, was that not one of the driving factors behind the split from Labour (the Workers Party) originally?
Bogball, the egalitarian thing was directed at the 18th/19th century leaders as a group. Yes Mitchell was in modern terms a racist. However, it should be noted that egalitarianism in that period was largely for white people. Sure weren't the writers of the US Declaration egalitarian in there own minds yet were against the freedom of the slaves (t. Jefferson was one of the largest slave holders in America).
YOu can't really compare modern day egalitarianism to 18th/mid-19th century egalitarianism. In saying that though there were people in Ireland who would ahve been obviously in favour of the Union side and fought on the Union side in the US Civil War.
Sinn Fein just keeps on saying 'Yes' to teachers
By Katherine Donnelly
Thursday February 17 2011
SINN Fein has been caught out giving different answers to teachers over how much it would spend on education if it was in government.
The party's pledges of a huge increase in education spending have left it red-faced, after its differing answers left an unexplained gap of €1.5bn.
It has promised the Irish National Teachers Organisation (INTO) that education spending will rise to 6pc of national income, officially termed GDP.
But when the party was asked by the Teachers Union of Ireland (TUI) if it would increase education spending to 7pc of national income, Sinn Fein also replied: "Yes." The difference between the party's conflicting pledges is about €1.5bn a year.
The current Government's spend on education as a proportion of national income is less than 5pc and among the lowest in the developed world.
The TUI has asked its members to support candidates from parties "which have given sincere and positive responses" to a series of questions on education policy, including spending.
FG 16
Labour 7
Greens 5
FF 3
Sinn Fein -6
Labour 16
SF 14
Green 3
FG 0
FF -14
I honestly think any solution to the current crisis will need parties and ideologies from both the left and the right.
Cuts will have to happen thank to the reckless spending by the previous Government (Labour/SF will find it hard to live with that). But cuts alone won't save us and taxes will increase (FG will find it hard to live with that).
Rather than having one group trying to get the others to pay for everything, a joint approach where all sides pay their way is probably the only solution. Even then the banks are so screwed we might not be able to afford it.
Quote from: muppet on February 17, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
I honestly think any solution to the current crisis will need parties and ideologies from both the left and the right.
Cuts will have to happen thank to the reckless spending by the previous Government (Labour/SF will find it hard to live with that). But cuts alone won't save us and taxes will increase (FG will find it hard to live with that).
Rather than having one group trying to get the others to pay for everything, a joint approach where all sides pay their way is probably the only solution. Even then the banks are so screwed we might not be able to afford it.
Have you seen the Labour adds attacking FG because they are going to be increasing taxes??
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 17, 2011, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 17, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
I honestly think any solution to the current crisis will need parties and ideologies from both the left and the right.
Cuts will have to happen thank to the reckless spending by the previous Government (Labour/SF will find it hard to live with that). But cuts alone won't save us and taxes will increase (FG will find it hard to live with that).
Rather than having one group trying to get the others to pay for everything, a joint approach where all sides pay their way is probably the only solution. Even then the banks are so screwed we might not be able to afford it.
Have you seen the Labour adds attacking FG because they are going to be increasing taxes??
Remember Michael McDowell's master stroke that stopped FF getting a majority? They still went into Government together. After the election all the manifestos will be irrelevant and they will do a deal. Politics is a scummy arena when you think about it.
Here we go with the first of the Munster predictions. 4 Constituencies predicted, which brings us up to 87 seats in total. Obviously 44 would have you at an overall majority at this stage, but FG are still hovering 10% under that magical mark. Sinn Fein's predictions are wildly optimistic, but even so, It appears that we are predicting a FG/LAB coalition at the end of this. FF would probably be happy enough with 19 seats at this stage.
87 seats predicted
Fine Gael - 35
Fianna Fail - 19
Sinn Fein - 17
Labour - 11
Others - 5
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-4.jpg)
the 4 Munster predictions
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const1920.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const2122.jpg)
Tonight's prime time was the best programme I've seen on the election thusfar. Joan and Noonan both came across reasonably well and their ideas on the default (sorry restructuring) were reasonable, although FG don't seem prepared to push for much of a haircut, possibly that's just the rhetoric that Angela told Enda he has to pedal so as to not unsettle the bond markets over the next few months?
Despite this, having either FG or Labour in govt on their own is not something I'd be in favour of, I'd be happy enough for FG to get about 60 seats and Labour to take 40 and let them fight out the details on spending cuts that way (not that such things matter in the short term, but in the longer term it'd be good to have a programme where we actually balance our income and expenditure).
It was very heartening as well to hear that Noonan reckons the eurobond will happen, as imo, without that we are truly fcuked.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 17, 2011, 11:50:20 PM
Tonight's prime time was the best programme I've seen on the election thusfar. Joan and Noonan both came across reasonably well and their ideas on the default (sorry restructuring) were reasonable, although FG don't seem prepared to push for much of a haircut, possibly that's just the rhetoric that Angela told Enda he has to pedal so as to not unsettle the bond markets over the next few months?
Despite this, having either FG or Labour in govt on their own is not something I'd be in favour of, I'd be happy enough for FG to get about 60 seats and Labour to take 40 and let them fight out the details on spending cuts that way (not that such things matter in the short term, but in the longer term it'd be good to have a programme where we actually balance our income and expenditure).
It was very heartening as well to hear that Noonan reckons the eurobond will happen, as imo, without that we are truly fcuked.
Agreed, although I think both will come in a little higher.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 17, 2011, 11:50:20 PM
Tonight's prime time was the best programme I've seen on the election thusfar. Joan and Noonan both came across reasonably well and their ideas on the default (sorry restructuring) were reasonable, although FG don't seem prepared to push for much of a haircut, possibly that's just the rhetoric that Angela told Enda he has to pedal so as to not unsettle the bond markets over the next few months?
Despite this, having either FG or Labour in govt on their own is not something I'd be in favour of, I'd be happy enough for FG to get about 60 seats and Labour to take 40 and let them fight out the details on spending cuts that way (not that such things matter in the short term, but in the longer term it'd be good to have a programme where we actually balance our income and expenditure).
It was very heartening as well to hear that Noonan reckons the eurobond will happen, as imo, without that we are truly fcuked.
Do you honestly see Gilmore/Burton/Shortall being able to make large cuts in public sector spending and facing down the unions??
Two of the big union honchos, Jack O'Connor and David Begg, have both been very critical of FG in recent days. They're scared of FG getting too far ahead and not needing Labour.
Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2011, 09:30:37 AM
Two of the big union honchos, Jack O'Connor and David Begg, have both been very critical of FG in recent days. They're scared of FG getting too far ahead and not needing Labour.
In fairness Jack O'Connor is a paid up member of the Labour Party, so he's just following suit with his leader..
Not a fan of the Blueshirts by any means but Varadkar tore Róisín Shortall to shreds in a debate on Newstalk this morning.
FG smell blood and are imo zeroing in on the kill.
Once again I cannot comprehend why people still sneer at Enda Kenny............ the boy is doing good, very good. (as much as it galls me to say it).
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Is he a small businessman by any chance?
SF 23
Labour 16
Greens 9
FG -5
FF -7
Surprised I scored so highly for the blueshirts.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 18, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Is he a small businessman by any chance?
:D Some spoofer. Not a notion!
Quote from: ballinaman on February 18, 2011, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 18, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Is he a small businessman by any chance?
:D
oh sweet jez!! imagine the team talk... ::)
did anyone see john gormley on tv3 this morning? well johns got this big box of political grenades that hes using up before the electorate disband the greens. "fianna fail started to believe their own spin" "brian cowen was in denial""the green party had no say fianna fail kept them in the dark" sounded like john was rehearsing for a court case/tribunal
Anyone having a bet on next govt?
Price which stood out for me was FG/Others/Greens 50/1
If 8-10 independents won seats and greens managed to get 2 its a huge price for them to do a deal. FG/Others is only 9/2!!
FG would give the Greens the dept of environment and let them take some of the heat for the water and carbon taxes coming down the road.
Obviously fav is FG/LAB @ 2/5
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Michael, they will, Michael, and everything else, Michael, I'm a businessman, Michael and everything else ...
Guaranteed to get in though.
Suitable commentary on the state of the nation that we get the representatives we deserve
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 11:53:24 AM
Guaranteed to get in though.
Suitable commentary on the state of the nation that we get the representatives we deserve
the tears are rolling down my face here, what a tube, if he gets in it's a disgrace
it was a clinker when he said ''actually michael louth play in a red jersey'' and your man pulled him saying, oh you're only interested in county politics then peter :D
plus that speech impediment makes him sound like a Dundalk version of Johnathan woss :D
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 11:53:24 AM
Guaranteed to get in though.
Suitable commentary on the state of the nation that we get the representatives we deserve
+1 sigh..... ::)
Quote from: Rossie11 on February 18, 2011, 11:46:36 AM
Anyone having a bet on next govt?
Price which stood out for me was FG/Others/Greens 50/1
If 8-10 independents won seats and greens managed to get 2 its a huge price for them to do a deal. FG/Others is only 9/2!!
FG would give the Greens the dept of environment and let them take some of the heat for the water and carbon taxes coming down the road.
Obviously fav is FG/LAB @ 2/5
I would be shocked to see the greens get a seat, other than that, it's flawless.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on February 18, 2011, 07:26:20 AM
Do you honestly see Gilmore/Burton/Shortall being able to make large cuts in public sector spending and facing down the unions??
[/quote]
Look, the unions have a choice, huge cuts in public sector spending or no cheques at all. Irish unions have traditionally got into bed with FF anyway, certainly the public sector workers unions at any rate, and why wouldn't they have?
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Some serious airbrushing on that poster. Looks like he's made out of plastic.
After warning of a military coup a few days ago Ned O'Keefee now has his eye on the Chinese.
QuoteOur thanks to reporter Brian Moore of the Avondhu newspaper in Mitchelstown for bringing us this update from Ned, who is doing the nation some service by keeping a beady eye on troop movements in the Far East. In the course of a wide-ranging interview on Cork local radio station C103, Deputy O'Keefe outlined the appalling vista facing Ireland at the moment: an invasion by the Chinese, followed by a takeover of the country.
"The blame for the problems we have is nothing to do with the banks. It is down purely and simply to politicians, the planners and the county councils," explained Ned, before turning to matters oriental.
"We have a foreigner in place telling us we should sell our banks and I don't want the Chinese coming in here. We had 800 years of English rule, if we let the Chinese in and give them a base here like they have in the Sudan and in other parts of Africa, then where will we be? "They would then probably take over the place with military bases and so on," declared The Mitchelstown Eagle – he's watching Beijing.
But why would the Chinese be interested in sending their troops over here? "It is the nature of their business, the Chinese are going to take over the world, they are a financial power and a military power as well." To bolster his theory, Ned went on to say that it has been proposed to sell AIB and the Bank of Ireland to Chinese banks. "I am totally opposed to that and I think every Irishman who has an understanding of the freedom of his country will see what the Chinese are up to." But as writer Moore notes, every cloud has a silver lining. Aren't the Chinese very fond of their pork? Good news there for Ned, passionate champion of the (processed) pig.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on February 18, 2011, 02:51:12 PM
Looks like he's made out of plastic.
He sounds like it too.
And I thought that "Bonkers" Bannon couldn't be outdone.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on February 18, 2011, 03:29:54 PM
After warning of a military coup a few days ago Ned O'Keefee now has his eye on the Chinese.
QuoteOur thanks to reporter Brian Moore of the Avondhu newspaper in Mitchelstown for bringing us this update from Ned, who is doing the nation some service by keeping a beady eye on troop movements in the Far East. In the course of a wide-ranging interview on Cork local radio station C103, Deputy O'Keefe outlined the appalling vista facing Ireland at the moment: an invasion by the Chinese, followed by a takeover of the country.
"The blame for the problems we have is nothing to do with the banks. It is down purely and simply to politicians, the planners and the county councils," explained Ned, before turning to matters oriental.
"We have a foreigner in place telling us we should sell our banks and I don't want the Chinese coming in here. We had 800 years of English rule, if we let the Chinese in and give them a base here like they have in the Sudan and in other parts of Africa, then where will we be? "They would then probably take over the place with military bases and so on," declared The Mitchelstown Eagle – he's watching Beijing.
But why would the Chinese be interested in sending their troops over here? "It is the nature of their business, the Chinese are going to take over the world, they are a financial power and a military power as well." To bolster his theory, Ned went on to say that it has been proposed to sell AIB and the Bank of Ireland to Chinese banks. "I am totally opposed to that and I think every Irishman who has an understanding of the freedom of his country will see what the Chinese are up to." But as writer Moore notes, every cloud has a silver lining. Aren't the Chinese very fond of their pork? Good news there for Ned, passionate champion of the (processed) pig.
拿我来说，欢迎我们的新中国霸主。
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1391/1247830370_4b17afe32b_o.jpg)
Quote from: Hardy on February 18, 2011, 11:47:42 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Michael, they will, Michael, and everything else, Michael, I'm a businessman, Michael and everything else ...
:D O dear Lord.
Is it just me or have Fianna Fáil changed their colours to Blue. Are they trying to pretend they are Fine Gael, some of their posters are in traditional Fine Gael colour schemes.
Also are they having a competion to see who can hide the Fianna Fail Logo the best.
- Faces and Canidate names bigger on posters.
- Tiny FF logos, with tiny Fianna Fáil print or none.
- Posters in traditional Fine Gael colour schemes.
- Micheal Martin goes through entire 5 party leader debate without mentioning the word Fianna Fáil.
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
Did anyone catch the interviewer's name?
Michéal Martin asked can he live on €230 a week, (She looked like she was about to rip him a new hole).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYmx6bI-vM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYmx6bI-vM)
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 18, 2011, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on February 18, 2011, 03:29:54 PM
After warning of a military coup a few days ago Ned O'Keefee now has his eye on the Chinese.
QuoteOur thanks to reporter Brian Moore of the Avondhu newspaper in Mitchelstown for bringing us this update from Ned, who is doing the nation some service by keeping a beady eye on troop movements in the Far East. In the course of a wide-ranging interview on Cork local radio station C103, Deputy O'Keefe outlined the appalling vista facing Ireland at the moment: an invasion by the Chinese, followed by a takeover of the country.
"The blame for the problems we have is nothing to do with the banks. It is down purely and simply to politicians, the planners and the county councils," explained Ned, before turning to matters oriental.
"We have a foreigner in place telling us we should sell our banks and I don't want the Chinese coming in here. We had 800 years of English rule, if we let the Chinese in and give them a base here like they have in the Sudan and in other parts of Africa, then where will we be? "They would then probably take over the place with military bases and so on," declared The Mitchelstown Eagle – he's watching Beijing.
But why would the Chinese be interested in sending their troops over here? "It is the nature of their business, the Chinese are going to take over the world, they are a financial power and a military power as well." To bolster his theory, Ned went on to say that it has been proposed to sell AIB and the Bank of Ireland to Chinese banks. "I am totally opposed to that and I think every Irishman who has an understanding of the freedom of his country will see what the Chinese are up to." But as writer Moore notes, every cloud has a silver lining. Aren't the Chinese very fond of their pork? Good news there for Ned, passionate champion of the (processed) pig.
拿我来说，欢迎我们的新中国霸主。
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1391/1247830370_4b17afe32b_o.jpg)
once they hear we're in the european rapid force they'll back off 8)
Quote from: lawnseed on February 18, 2011, 07:26:28 PM
Quote from: LaurelEye on February 18, 2011, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on February 18, 2011, 03:29:54 PM
After warning of a military coup a few days ago Ned O'Keefee now has his eye on the Chinese.
QuoteOur thanks to reporter Brian Moore of the Avondhu newspaper in Mitchelstown for bringing us this update from Ned, who is doing the nation some service by keeping a beady eye on troop movements in the Far East. In the course of a wide-ranging interview on Cork local radio station C103, Deputy O'Keefe outlined the appalling vista facing Ireland at the moment: an invasion by the Chinese, followed by a takeover of the country.
"The blame for the problems we have is nothing to do with the banks. It is down purely and simply to politicians, the planners and the county councils," explained Ned, before turning to matters oriental.
"We have a foreigner in place telling us we should sell our banks and I don't want the Chinese coming in here. We had 800 years of English rule, if we let the Chinese in and give them a base here like they have in the Sudan and in other parts of Africa, then where will we be? "They would then probably take over the place with military bases and so on," declared The Mitchelstown Eagle – he's watching Beijing.
But why would the Chinese be interested in sending their troops over here? "It is the nature of their business, the Chinese are going to take over the world, they are a financial power and a military power as well." To bolster his theory, Ned went on to say that it has been proposed to sell AIB and the Bank of Ireland to Chinese banks. "I am totally opposed to that and I think every Irishman who has an understanding of the freedom of his country will see what the Chinese are up to." But as writer Moore notes, every cloud has a silver lining. Aren't the Chinese very fond of their pork? Good news there for Ned, passionate champion of the (processed) pig.
拿我来说，欢迎我们的新中国霸主。
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1391/1247830370_4b17afe32b_o.jpg)
once they hear we're in the european rapid force they'll back off 8)
Sure Gerry has the contacts to get them to back off ;)
aye a least they'd know who gerry was. ;)
while we are laughing mayo dont forget that this o keefe guy was running the country ::) this isnt funny :D and yer man louth manager is going to be running the country... we must have been bad hoors in previous life to deserve this shite
Quote from: lawnseed on February 18, 2011, 08:01:29 PM
while we are laughing mayo dont forget that this o keefe guy was running the country ::) this isnt funny :D and yer man louth manager is going to be running the country... we must have been bad hoors in previous life to deserve this shite
Well I don't quite see Mr. Fitzpatrick as front bench material just quite yet.
Maybe we where Roundheads in our last life. We do both claim to be Republicans after all ;) :D
did you know that king Charles II dug up Cromwell and hung him at tyburn for 3 years before dismembering him and sending his remains all over england. his head was sold to cambridge uni eventually where it is today on display now thats what i call hanging you crow..
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 18, 2011, 08:12:21 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 18, 2011, 08:01:29 PM
while we are laughing mayo dont forget that this o keefe guy was running the country ::) this isnt funny :D and yer man louth manager is going to be running the country... we must have been bad hoors in previous life to deserve this shite
Well I don't quite see Mr. Fitzpatrick as front bench material just quite yet.
Maybe we where Roundheads in our last life. We do both claim to be Republicans after all ;) :D
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 18, 2011, 07:16:08 PM
Michéal Martin asked can he live on €230 a week, (She looked like she was about to rip him a new hole).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYmx6bI-vM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYmx6bI-vM)
And he was looking for the nearest emergency exit. You know Kenny might get criticism for not being statesman like but it is in conversations like that he excels, he is a much warmer person one to one. Martin showed his true colours there, not willing to confront the great unwashed.
There was some good light relief of the humorous kind from Green Tea on rte this morning
The Biftas, presented by Aherne
Award for the most imaginative expense claim - John O'Donoghue
Best picture - Social Nitwit - John Gormley (last year best film - sc**bag Millionaire)
Special award for the pursuit of truth and justice even when you're guilty - Ivor Callely.
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2011, 11:06:39 AM
There was some good light relief of the humorous kind from Green Tea on rte this morning
The Biftas, presented by Aherne
Award for the most imaginative expense claim - John O'Donoghue
Best picture - Social Nitwit - John Gormley (last year best film - sc**bag Millionaire)
Special award for the pursuit of truth and justice even when you're guilty - Ivor Callely.
Brilliant.
A few more:
Award for best actor live on 6.1 News - Dermot Ahern
Award for best supporting actor live on 6.1 News - Noel Dempsey
Award for getting her photo in the papers most frequently - Mary Coughlan
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 19, 2011, 10:49:28 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 18, 2011, 07:16:08 PM
Michéal Martin asked can he live on €230 a week, (She looked like she was about to rip him a new hole).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYmx6bI-vM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYmx6bI-vM)
And he was looking for the nearest emergency exit. You know Kenny might get criticism for not being statesman like but it is in conversations like that he excels, he is a much warmer person one to one. Martin showed his true colours there, not willing to confront the great unwashed.
To be honest I think Gormley, Gilmore & Adams would have all done better than Martin too.
I just remembered Brian Cowan is Taoiseach, had anybody else forgotten this guy is running the country!!! :o
Sunday 20-02-2011
SBP/RedC poll:
FG 39 (+1)
Lab 17 (-3)
FF 16 (+1)
SF: 12 (+2)
Greens 2 (-1)
Ind 14
Milward Browne
FG 37 (-1)
Lab 20 (-3)
FF 16 (+4)
SF 12 (+2)
Greens 1
Ind 14 (-2)
KN/WL poll: Deenihan (FG) 30%, Spring (LAB)17%, Ferris (SF) 9%, MacEllistrim (FF) 8%, Sheehan (FG) 7%.
KS: Griffin (FG) 15%, Fleming (IND) 15%, Sheehan (FG) 12%, Moloney (LAB) 11%, Gleeson (SKIA) 10%, MHR (IND) 10%, JOD (FF) 7%.
Sheehan to be carried on Deenihan's transfers, Ferris to lose his seat.
However on the other side, Paddy Power: Ferris at 1/20 to take a seat, sheahan 9/2.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics?AFF_ID=10054317 (http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics?AFF_ID=10054317)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 19, 2011, 08:29:31 PM
Sunday 20-02-2011
SBP/RedC poll:
FF 16 (+1)
Milward Browne
FF 16 (+4)
I find that quite amazing. :(
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 19, 2011, 08:55:08 PM
KN/WL poll: Deenihan (FG) 30%, Spring (LAB)17%, Ferris (SF) 9%, MacEllistrim (FF) 8%, Sheehan (FG) 7%.
KS: Griffin (FG) 15%, Fleming (IND) 15%, Sheehan (FG) 12%, Moloney (LAB) 11%, Gleeson (SKIA) 10%, MHR (IND) 10%, JOD (FF) 7%.
Sheehan to be carried on Deenihan's transfers, Ferris to lose his seat.
However on the other side, Paddy Power: Ferris at 1/20 to take a seat, sheahan 9/2.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics?AFF_ID=10054317 (http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics?AFF_ID=10054317)
Hard to imagine SF losing a seat given that their percentage support appears likely to almost double. Where is that poll from?
The Paddy Power book is a disgrace. Most constituencies have more candidates odds on than there are seats!
Quote from: whiskeysteve on February 19, 2011, 09:05:50 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 19, 2011, 08:29:31 PM
Sunday 20-02-2011
SBP/RedC poll:
FF 16 (+1)
Milward Browne
FF 16 (+4)
I find that quite amazing. :(
Not really, Labour is getting crushed by Sinn Féin on the Left and by Fine Gael on the right, but probably leaking populist/grandchildren of Dev votes back to Fianna Fáil based on their absolute rubbish performance in the last fortnight.
It is depressing but not amazing.
Is it looking like Labour have managed to win the runners up position in these elections for Fianna Fáil.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 20, 2011, 12:34:25 AM
Is it looking like Labour have managed to win the runners up position in these elections for Fianna Fáil.
Don't count your chickens before they've bolted!
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2011, 12:37:53 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 20, 2011, 12:34:25 AM
Is it looking like Labour have managed to win the runners up position in these elections for Fianna Fáil.
Don't count your chickens before they've bolted!
Sorry they might win the runners up position for seats, now forming the next goverment is an entirely different question.
so much for gilmores gale more a sort of puff. how come none of the surveys add up to a hundred
Quote from: lawnseed on February 20, 2011, 12:33:48 PM
so much for gilmores gale more a sort of puff. how come none of the surveys add up to a hundred
Rounding, i'd imagine and/or adjustments to reflect the 'undecided' voters.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 20, 2011, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 20, 2011, 12:33:48 PM
so much for gilmores gale more a sort of puff. how come none of the surveys add up to a hundred
Rounding, i'd imagine and/or adjustments to reflect the 'undecided' voters.
they should just say 'so many undecided' or not intending to vote..
Sweet Lord: Michael Healy Rae 'Canvassing', 2007 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRYzqvRtww)
Irish Times Poll: 21/02/2011
FG 37 +4
Lab 19 -5
FF 16 +1
SF 11 -1
Green 2 +1
Other 15
More of the same from Fianna Fail traitors http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QzoxG9b9i8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QzoxG9b9i8)
Indo today was all but anointing Enda.
If he is Taoiseach they will say they caled it right.
If he loses they will hang him a la Neil Kinnock.
A week ago I was predicting Labour/FF/others as Government. Looking less likely but not impossible if FF claw back up into the low 20% area.
Wildest of wildcards: FG/SF?
SF has shown up North that they are not averse to imposing cuts so the ideology is not as far apart as it might seem. It might also suit FG when they talk to the EU about the bailout rate.
Funny outside mass earlier in Blackrock. Both Barry Andrews and Mary Hanafin were there canvassing.
The body language was awful. But it would seem that from people I have spoken to that the vote will go the FF to keep Boyd Barrett out. Main FG candidate wants Blackrock to vote for running mate in late election strategy. Will it work. Probably. Gilmore wont take Demi Moore sorry Ivana Bacik over the line.
Dun Laoghaire
FG 2
Lab 1
FF 1
(http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg618/scaled.php?tn=0&server=618&filename=9klkk.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640)
Would love to put something like this up in the window :D
Quote from: muppet on February 20, 2011, 11:15:23 PM
Wildest of wildcards: FG/SF?
Would be worth it just to see the reaction of the Sindo and the rest of 'Sir' Tonys Irish rags.
I'm just looking at some of the polls that have come out over the past few days here and while I'm not surprised i'm a bit disappointed to see that Fianna Fáil are as high in the polls as they are. It seems all their huff and puff of the last few weeks is beginning to work. Although to be honest I think that people hacve found it very hard to give up their allegiances to their 'family' parties and while they are saying in public that FF are a disgrace etc. etc. they'll still vote for them...
Another interesting point of the polls is the position of Sinn Féin. Labour seem to be suffering a similar fate to the Lib Dems in the Westminster elections were a lot of people were saying they'd get hugs increases but overall this didn't materialise.
Anyway...back to SF. Do people think that the predicted 12 seats are achievable or do they think this is a big underestimation or over-estimation? It is very difficult ot measure how successul SF will be because they ahve fluctuated a bit on the polls. It would appear that campaigns to concentrate on Gerry Adams' past by the Sindo and FF amonsgt others are having the desired effect in some quarters. In my view this is pathetic gutter politics but again i'm not surprised by those employing these tactics.
Quote from: Poc me on February 21, 2011, 10:51:08 AM
I'm just looking at some of the polls that have come out over the past few days here and while I'm not surprised i'm a bit disappointed to see that Fianna Fáil are as high in the polls as they are. It seems all their huff and puff of the last few weeks is beginning to work. Although to be honest I think that people hacve found it very hard to give up their allegiances to their 'family' parties and while they are saying in public that FF are a disgrace etc. etc. they'll still vote for them...
Another interesting point of the polls is the position of Sinn Féin. Labour seem to be suffering a similar fate to the Lib Dems in the Westminster elections were a lot of people were saying they'd get hugs increases but overall this didn't materialise.
Anyway...back to SF. Do people think that the predicted 12 seats are achievable or do they think this is a big underestimation or over-estimation? It is very difficult ot measure how successul SF will be because they ahve fluctuated a bit on the polls. It would appear that campaigns to concentrate on Gerry Adams' past by the Sindo and FF amonsgt others are having the desired effect in some quarters. In my view this is pathetic gutter politics but again i'm not surprised by those employing these tactics.
Sindo did a u-turn yesterday presenting a man that they ridiculed for nearly a decade as a statesman. It amazes me how some Irish people allow that paper to influence their thinking.
sorry lads, back again after a weekend of drunkeness in Nottingham. I gathered the results of our last predictions on Friday, and here they are. The overall count of seats predicted is 101 at this stage, with only 5 Munster and the 12 Dublin constituencies left.
At this point, 51 seats would be overall majority territory, but Fine Gael have actually gone backwards in seat percentage terms following the latest results. They are..
Fine Gael 39
Fianna Fail 21
Sinn Fein 20
Labour 14
Other 7
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-5.jpg)
The results from the 4 constituencies most recently predicted are
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const2324.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const2526.jpg)
Very poor turn-out in some of those constituencies AZ; but I have some theories: (a) Mickey Martin can't afford to give lifts to the OAPs, (b) SF are too cocky to use the voting cards of the deceased, and (c) no-one gives a shit anymore.
There is always a twist or turn in the last week of an election. McDowell's intervention stopping FF getting an overall majority springs to mind. Didn't stop them getting together in Government.
Any predictions as to what major promise will change the course of this one?
My predictions:
FG: This week will announce plan to sell RTE to Sinn Fein.
Labour: Will promise increase education spending so that An Gaeilgoir can learn to spell 'official'
SF: Gerry Adams will announce a promise to downgrade Moody's and S&P.
FF: Martin will challenge all leaders to a tv nude debate at the forty foot.
Anyone know what's to stop Gilmore and Martin attacking SF in the debate tomorrow night when Adams is not going to be present?
Quote from: Ulick on February 21, 2011, 02:37:58 PM
Anyone know what's to stop Gilmore and Martin attacking SF in the debate tomorrow night when Adams is not going to be present?
The fact that Gilmore is a former member?
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2011, 01:02:09 PM
sorry lads, back again after a weekend of drunkeness in Nottingham.
Did ye manage to kit him out or is it a case of what goes on tour stays on tour?
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
(http://www.collegetribune.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/piecharts_FEB111-1024x772.jpg)
- 1,248 Students Surveyed Nationwide
- 73% of students intend on voting
- Fine Gael top National Student Poll at 34%
- Labour most popular party in UCD but 1 in 10 students say they will still vote Fianna Fáil.
- 0% of TCD students say they will give Sinn Féin candidates their first preference
Nationally, Fine Gael are the most popular political party amongst students on 34%, followed by the Labour Party at 30%. Independents follow with 13%, whilst one in ten students say they will give their first preference to Fianna Fáil. Sinn Féin proved to be more popular among students, than the Green Party with 6%, compared to the Green's 4%. 3% of students said they would give their first preference to "Other" candidates, such as those who form part of the United Left Alliance.
Fine Gael are the most popular party in all universities, apart from DCU and in UCD where Labour ranked as the most popular political party, gaining 33.6% compared to Fine Gael's 27.48%
Fine Gael performed particularly well in TCD with 45% in comparison to Labour's 28.16% there.
No DCU or UL students surveyed said the Green Party would be receiving their first preference, and in TCD Sinn Féin also received 0%
http://www.collegetribune.ie/index.php/2011/02/fine-gael-gets-students-vote/ (http://www.collegetribune.ie/index.php/2011/02/fine-gael-gets-students-vote/)
Excellent point Croi na heireann, the first article in the G.A.A. constitution states that the Association shall be non-political, and this would appear to be a clear breach of that position. Also i can recall a former member of the Down Co.Board, being made to remove reference to his position, in the GAA, contained in his election literature as it was deemed to be inappropiate.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 21, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2011, 01:02:09 PM
sorry lads, back again after a weekend of drunkeness in Nottingham.
Did ye manage to kit him out or is it a case of what goes on tour stays on tour?
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
You think it's ok for the GAA to allow such use of its assets for a price?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 20, 2011, 08:59:23 PM
Sweet Lord: Michael Healy Rae 'Canvassing', 2007 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRYzqvRtww)
And poor Breeda Moynihan Cronin
did need the #1s!
ICELAND IS SHINNER COUNTRY! the country's prime minister did what gerry would do if the irish electorate would give him the job. she told icelands creditors to take a hike. many british bondholders took a hair cut (3 billion) when iceland went belly up but the british gov. stepped in and covered their loss with a view to tackling iceland for the money at a later date. so cap in hand britain drew up a repayment scheme hoping to persuade the islands leaders to sign it, but not a chance the prime minister johanna siguroardottir who enjoys a 73% 8) approval rating sent them packing.
Why did George Lee leave Fine Gael?
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 21, 2011, 09:59:03 PM
Why did George Lee leave Fine Gael?
Probably a load of reasons some valid and some maybe not but he was on one year's leave of absence from RTE. Once he went past the year his job was gone.
Quote from: muppet on February 21, 2011, 10:14:44 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 21, 2011, 09:59:03 PM
Why did George Lee leave Fine Gael?
Probably a load of reasons some valid and some maybe not but he was on one year's leave of absence from RTE. Once he went past the year his job was gone.
Why did George Lee join Fine Gael??
Looking forward to results coming in on Saturday to see a few slaps in the face from the public a la Peter Robinson ( priceless moment that one).
In no particular order people I would like to see unelected.
1) Willie the Weasel ( unlikely but you can only hope).
2) Eamonn Ryan ( will not have to listen to him or Dan Boyle again).
3) Barry/Chris Andrews - don't know the difference between the 2. Equally unlikeable.
4) Mary Coughlan - again unlikely.
5) Michael Healy Rae
6) Ned O'Keefe's offspring - "This is an O'Keefe seat". You're not in Libya now Ned.
Quote from: Orangemac on February 21, 2011, 10:51:43 PM
Looking forward to results coming in on Saturday to see a few slaps in the face from the public a la Peter Robinson ( priceless moment that one).
In no particular order people I would like to see unelected.
1) Willie the Weasel ( unlikely but you can only hope).
2) Eamonn Ryan ( will not have to listen to him or Dan Boyle again).
3) Barry/Chris Andrews - don't know the difference between the 2. Equally unlikeable.
4) Mary Coughlan - again unlikely.
5) Michael Healy Rae
6) Ned O'Keefe's offspring - "This is an O'Keefe seat". You're not in Libya now Ned.
7) brian lenahen
Quote from: lawnseed on February 21, 2011, 11:06:05 PM
Quote from: Orangemac on February 21, 2011, 10:51:43 PM
Looking forward to results coming in on Saturday to see a few slaps in the face from the public a la Peter Robinson ( priceless moment that one).
In no particular order people I would like to see unelected.
1) Willie the Weasel ( unlikely but you can only hope).
2) Eamonn Ryan ( will not have to listen to him or Dan Boyle again).
3) Barry/Chris Andrews - don't know the difference between the 2. Equally unlikeable.
4) Mary Coughlan - again unlikely.
5) Michael Healy Rae
6) Ned O'Keefe's offspring - "This is an O'Keefe seat". You're not in Libya now Ned.
7) brian lenahen
7) Brian, Conor, Mammy and all future Lenihans.
I'd like to see Eamon Ryan retain his seat, he's a charismatic TD and I think he's done a good job in DCENR, IMHO
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 21, 2011, 11:48:14 PM
I'd like to see Eamon Ryan retain his seat, he's a charismatic TD and I think he's done a good job in DCENR, IMHO
He took part in a Shell to Sea protest in 2005.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 21, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
Just something to bear in mind on this issue also as an aside. One political party in the run up to the council elections held most recently handed out pamphlets outside O'Connor Park with the teams listed on them. Absolutely crucified programme sales on the day and by a conservative estimate, cost the Offaly county board thousands. And this would be a party who would consider themselves "friends" of the GAA. Funny way of showing it, I don't like to rob my friends.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on February 21, 2011, 11:48:14 PM
I'd like to see Eamon Ryan retain his seat, he's a charismatic TD and I think he's done a good job in DCENR, IMHO
Must say I like Ryan too. If I was putting together a top 10 of election candidates, he'd be in it.
Voters set to endorse EU-IMF deal in election
Election to show that Irish people are scared of any great change to society – despite what we might tell Joe Duffy, writes FINTAN O'TOOLE
WHATEVER SCEPTICS may think, the election will make at least one huge difference.
Up until February 25th, there will have been no popular mandate for turning bank debt into public debt and imposing another four years of austerity. After Friday, unless all the polls are completely askew, there will be a popular mandate for the bank bailout, the EU-IMF deal and the cuts. Behind all the excitement of a historic changing of the guard, this is the real big event.
Come Saturday morning, like every morning after every election in the history of the State, right-of-centre establishment politics will be triumphant. Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil will have well over half the vote between them, 53 per cent according to yesterday's Irish Times poll. More strikingly, it is precisely the same as the 53 per cent that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil between them got in the European elections in June 2009.
Everything that has happened since then – the revelation of the abysmal depths of the banking crisis, the loss of economic sovereignty in the EU-IMF deal – has resulted in little more than a shift in support between the two right-of-centre parties that have dominated Irish politics since the foundation of the State. Leave aside the "vingince, by Jaysus!" factor in relation to Fianna Fáil, and there is nothing to trouble the seismologist. To adapt the fictitious Times (of London) headline invented by Claud Cockburn: Small Earthquake in Ireland, Not Many Dead.
This outcome will be greeted with relief by the European Central Bank and the fiscal hawks within the EU.
It will mean that all the rage and disgust, all the cursing and fist-shaking, will have amounted to nothing very much. Internally, of course, Fianna Fáil's worst result to date (even the defeated and disarrayed republicans in 1923 got 27 per cent of the vote with many of their candidates in jail) will be a big deal. But externally, where the real power now lies, it will seem that nothing of great significance has happened.
The Irish will have a new government, surely more competent and energetic than the exhausted and demoralised one that rolled over when the IMF and the ECB came to town. The new boys will be rewarded with some promises of adjustments to interest rates that will allow them to claim victory. And they will get on with the job of nationalising private debt while attempting to bring the public deficit to below 3 per cent of GDP by 2014.
From the point of view of the ECB, the Irish will be even more onside than they are now. There was always a worry that Fianna Fáil and the Greens did not have public consent for the four-year plan they signed up to. These parties, after all, took just a quarter of the vote between them in 2009. That consent is now in the process of being secured. A few small concessions may be necessary but, after Friday, it will be essentially in the bag.
This is, surely, a remarkable state of affairs. Is there any other democracy where 55 per cent of the electorate would freely vote for a €15 billion austerity programme combined with a €100 billion transfer of wealth from citizens to banks? And let's be clear – this vote is free. For all the limitations to Irish democracy, and all the unhappiness that people may feel about the alternatives, there is nothing to stop people using their votes to send a very different kind of message. Most people will freely choose not to do so.
That's their right, but it is tough on those who don't have a choice at all, particularly the hidden people in this election – children. I've written before about the Irish capacity for "unknown knowns", things we know to be the case but choose not to be aware of. One of those big unknown knowns is that children will pay a heavily disproportionate price for our collective consent to the current policy.
Children in the poorest families are the most dependent on public services. The inevitable rise in poverty and the cutting of those services will hit them hard, at enormous long-term human and economic cost.
But that cost is tacitly written in to the deal. It is not even up for discussion in any substantial way. Fianna Fáil's manifesto says nothing at all about poverty or children.
Fine Gael's has 860 words on the burning issue of defence policy and 360 words on children, all of them decent but most of them vague.
Labour has good intentions about eliminating poverty but the main specific proposal for breaking the cycle of child poverty is the rolling out of an area-based strategy in "up to 10 of Ireland's most disadvantaged communities, at a cost of up to €15 million" – very nice, very fuzzy and very, very modest.
The three biggest parties clearly decided that, whatever we tell Joe Duffy, we are actually a timid people, willing to put up with what's happened to us and scared of any great change in the way our society works. The evidence is that they were right.
Fintan O'Toole is absolutely SPOT ON. A few Greek people in Ireland observed a few weeks ago that they were confused that there were few street protests and riots given the history of Ireland. Ireland is a conservative country, past rebellions have nearly exclusively been against the oppressor from another country. The people will not vote for the left wing parties even though the FG/FF parties are endorsing the situation we are in.
Any leftist rising tends to be washed away like the socialist fervour represented in Soviet na hÉireann that was shown on TG4, a recommended programme!! The right wing elements of the country did everything in their power to crush them. Then we look at the SPanish CIvil War...little over 100 Irish men going to fight fascism while over 1000 go to fight for fascism simply because they have the same religion...
QuoteThe people will not vote for the left wing parties even though the FG/FF parties are endorsing the situation we are in.
Heard it described well on radio the other morning.
Irish people are left wing in their hearts but right wing in their wallets
Quote from: Declan on February 22, 2011, 10:21:43 AM
QuoteThe people will not vote for the left wing parties even though the FG/FF parties are endorsing the situation we are in.
Heard it described well on radio the other morning.
Irish people are left wing in their hearts but right wing in their wallets
I think that's it in one.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 21, 2011, 07:53:44 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 21, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2011, 01:02:09 PM
sorry lads, back again after a weekend of drunkeness in Nottingham.
Did ye manage to kit him out or is it a case of what goes on tour stays on tour?
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
You think it's ok for the GAA to allow such use of its assets for a price?
Absolutely not, was disgusted to see the Westmeath crest on a Fianna Fail leaflet. However if the Westmeath County Board were stupid enough to allow their property to be used I hope they at least got something for the privilege. Least it only had the fixtures on it and not the teams. Lone Shark's post reminds me of heading in to O'Connor Park when the Lisbon treaty was on, the no side were handing out leaflets with the teams on them that day as well, another hit for the GAA I'd say ::)
QuoteIrish people are left wing in their hearts but right wing in their wallets
Well you know what they say.
If you are not socialist at 20, you are heartless.
If you are still socialist at 40, you are brainless.
Mind you we have a young population. But the socialists aren't very impressive.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 22, 2011, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 22, 2011, 10:21:43 AM
QuoteThe people will not vote for the left wing parties even though the FG/FF parties are endorsing the situation we are in.
Heard it described well on radio the other morning.
Irish people are left wing in their hearts but right wing in their wallets
I think that's it in one.
Is that not every society, everywhere though? The idea of social support, public infrastructure, universal healthcare and all these things sound like good ideas until it comes to paying for them.
We're just clueless enough as a society that we think we can have the best of both worlds.
QuoteIs that not every society, everywhere though
Well there is an argument that the Social Democrat models of Europe are closer to agreeing that healthcare education etc are worth paying for.
Also people in Ireland seem willing enough to pay for private education and healthcare themselves and some would argue that this is because they want to preserve the inequalities in our society by ensuring their children get every advantage they can rather than giving everyone equal access to them
Quote from: Lone Shark on February 22, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 21, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
Just something to bear in mind on this issue also as an aside. One political party in the run up to the council elections held most recently handed out pamphlets outside O'Connor Park with the teams listed on them. Absolutely crucified programme sales on the day and by a conservative estimate, cost the Offaly county board thousands. And this would be a party who would consider themselves "friends" of the GAA. Funny way of showing it, I don't like to rob my friends.
In this instance one man's cost is another man's saving LS
Quote from: Lone Shark on February 22, 2011, 12:41:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 22, 2011, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 22, 2011, 10:21:43 AM
QuoteThe people will not vote for the left wing parties even though the FG/FF parties are endorsing the situation we are in.
Heard it described well on radio the other morning.
Irish people are left wing in their hearts but right wing in their wallets
I think that's it in one.
Is that not every society, everywhere though? The idea of social support, public infrastructure, universal healthcare and all these things sound like good ideas until it comes to paying for them.
We're just clueless enough as a society that we think we can have the best of both worlds.
Healthcare and infrastructure are one thing, but socialising private banks' gambling losses is an entirely different form of socialism. SF calling the crisis a right wing one is half right as in it was created by unrestrained capitalists, but it became our problem because it was nationalised.
In Ireland we have a bitteen right wing in FG and a bitteen left in Labour. If they were further from the centre they would never get on but (Gilmore's recent blundering apart) they always do.
We had further right in the PDs and we didn't like that and now some are going to look further left with SF.
Somewhere earlier on I criticised all parties for saying jobs were the issue and for seemingly ignoring the financial crisis. Thinking about it more job creation, in the private sector, is the only way out of this crisis. Ideally the rate of job creation would at least match the inevitable job losses to come in the public service and in the banking sector.
For those in Mayo you could do worse than vote for independent candidate Dermot McDonnell who has helped set up a c
o-op in Belacorrick (http://www.acecoop.ie/index.html) to build wind farms. He proposes to have wind powered generation on a vast scale away from populated areas. His proposal includes manufacturing as much of the hardware as possible locally. He wants local jobs producing cheap power, not handouts. He has been working on this for years and has received nothing but obstacles from the Minister Ryan and his Department and of course the inevitable vested interests. The Department won't even release their own data on research into wind power generation.
I like this idea of local projects providing jobs, ultimately paying their own way and producing energy cheaply. Anyone can sign up. Why does it always have to be the usual vested interests?
Quote from: Lone Shark on February 22, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 21, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
Just something to bear in mind on this issue also as an aside. One political party in the run up to the council elections held most recently handed out pamphlets outside O'Connor Park with the teams listed on them. Absolutely crucified programme sales on the day and by a conservative estimate, cost the Offaly county board thousands. And this would be a party who would consider themselves "friends" of the GAA. Funny way of showing it, I don't like to rob my friends.
Who? Name and shame!
Irish Independent MillwardBrownLansdowne poll: FF 14 -2 FG 38 +1 Lab 20= GP 1= SF 11 -1 Ind 16 +2
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 22, 2011, 06:53:48 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on February 22, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 21, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
Just something to bear in mind on this issue also as an aside. One political party in the run up to the council elections held most recently handed out pamphlets outside O'Connor Park with the teams listed on them. Absolutely crucified programme sales on the day and by a conservative estimate, cost the Offaly county board thousands. And this would be a party who would consider themselves "friends" of the GAA. Funny way of showing it, I don't like to rob my friends.
Who? Name and shame!
When LS is giving out about them, who do you think they were? :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 22, 2011, 08:51:14 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 22, 2011, 06:53:48 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on February 22, 2011, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on February 21, 2011, 04:07:40 PM
On a different issue, I know there's a ban on GAA property being used for party political purposes but does anyone know if there any rule on GAA crests being used on political leaflets, etc? Reason I ask is Robert Troy of Fianna Fáil was handing out "No.1" leaflets outside Cusack Park yesterday with the Westmeath GAA crest and the fixtures for the year. I presume he had the permission for that from the county board (at a price I hope) but if there's a rule on property it should also extend to digital & print media.
Just something to bear in mind on this issue also as an aside. One political party in the run up to the council elections held most recently handed out pamphlets outside O'Connor Park with the teams listed on them. Absolutely crucified programme sales on the day and by a conservative estimate, cost the Offaly county board thousands. And this would be a party who would consider themselves "friends" of the GAA. Funny way of showing it, I don't like to rob my friends.
Who? Name and shame!
When LS is giving out about them, who do you think they were? :D
Haven't noticed.
I'm trying to watch this debate and pretend I've an interest, but this is really the most boring election I can ever remember - maybe it's just that I'm getting older and even more cynical, maybe it's because those elected will have all the power of a county councillor, but I am struggling to care about this at all. More likely it's that the only person I would vote for is running in another constituency and I have no wish to endorse any other party.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 22, 2011, 10:00:58 PM
I'm trying to watch this debate and pretend I've an interest, but this is really the most boring election I can ever remember - maybe it's just that I'm getting older and even more cynical, maybe it's because those elected will have all the power of a county councillor, but I am struggling to care about this at all. More likely it's that the only person I would vote for is running in another constituency and I have no wish to endorse any other party.
Have the same problem, the Mayo constituency eeks of Mediocrity and conservatism.
This is quite depressing. Like 3 children, and Kenny and Gilmore trying to dance around each other.
You'd love to box the head off the 3 of those gimps...I'd like to do something else to Miriam though
Being absent from that unseemly squabble will do Adams no harm at all.
I think Enda has won this hands down - not that it matters, an he won because he kept the hands down - Martin came across terribly, the old arrogant school master in full force (Enda didn't teach long enough to get that).
I know FF have led this country into the mess but Kenny will NOT bring the country out of it.
He has the charisma, debating ability, bottle fight or an apple core!!!
Martin is fiesty, he mightn't win this election but I can see him as a country leader.
Martin acting like a real bollix. Asking question and question of Kenny then proceeds to cut him off every time Kenny goes to answer them.
Quote from: Final Whistle on February 22, 2011, 10:33:58 PM
I know FF have led this country into the mess but Kenny will NOT bring the country out of it.
He has the charisma, debating ability, bottle fight or an apple core!!!
Martin is fiesty, he mightn't win this election but I can see him as a country leader.
Aye he was quare and fiesty when he kowtowed to Bertie and the developers, how any man can have a shred of credibility with the people after serving as one of the senior cabinet ministers in the administration that led us here is beyond me.
I hate FF with a passion I cant describe. But martin is the only leader on TV tonight.
I wont be voting FF but I'm debating whether I'll vote FG or Labour after the last few weeks.
Enda is a diabolical debater. Dire. Gilmore is all soundbites.
Indah's trying to be all statesmanlike and gravitas-laden. Leaden more like.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 22, 2011, 10:47:58 PM
Indah's trying to be all statesmanlike and gravitas-laden. Leaden more like.
Utterly useless. I mean would anyone feel confident with this guy in charge I couldnt bring myself to vote FF ever again but Enda is probably giving the floating voters an excuse to vote for them.
Does FF not have to follow the same debating rules as everyone else? Martin speaking over everyone else and being allowed to speak longer than other speakers. The same as in previous debates. WTF was he doing for the last 14 years when he had the power to impliment all his 'new ideas'. I am stunned thst FF are still going to get such a strong vote in this election, 20% of the vote would be a shame for these .........................ers
Quote from: INDIANA on February 22, 2011, 10:45:15 PM
I hate FF with a passion I cant describe. But martin is the only leader on TV tonight.
I wont be voting FF but I'm debating whether I'll vote FG or Labour after the last few weeks.
Enda is a diabolical debater. Dire. Gilmore is all soundbites.
I don't know lads, but I obvously have no grasp of what a leader should be or what he should be like, but I just find Martin arrogant, also as I said earlier, how can he possibly have any credibility,he's been health minister, foreign minister and enterprise minister over the past 14yrs - ffs lads, I mean, so we have to say anything more about him? By his performance we can we judge him.
Just looking at that again, can somebody tell me what a leader should be like and why? Do you think Martin's bullying style would go well with Merkel? Maybe Sarko would find someone equally snivelly a novelty?
RTEs "expert" panel will probably declare Martin the winner.
Quote from: Sandino on February 22, 2011, 10:58:59 PM
Does FF not have to follow the same debating rules as everyone else? Martin speaking over everyone else and being allowed to speak longer than other speakers. The same as in previous debates. WTF was he doing for the last 14 years when he had the power to impliment all his 'new ideas'. I am stunned thst FF are still going to get such a strong vote in this election, 20% of the vote would be a shame for these .........................ers
They're down to 14% in tomorrows poll.
Quote from: Sandino on February 22, 2011, 10:58:59 PM
Does FF not have to follow the same debating rules as everyone else? Martin speaking over everyone else and being allowed to speak longer than other speakers. The same as in previous debates. WTF was he doing for the last 14 years when he had the power to impliment all his 'new ideas'. I am stunned thst FF are still going to get such a strong vote in this election, 20% of the vote would be a shame for these .........................ers
Martin setup the HSE. So that will be enough to ensure FF has a disastrous election. But Kenny on TV is an own goal for FG.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 22, 2011, 11:02:01 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on February 22, 2011, 10:45:15 PM
I hate FF with a passion I cant describe. But martin is the only leader on TV tonight.
I wont be voting FF but I'm debating whether I'll vote FG or Labour after the last few weeks.
Enda is a diabolical debater. Dire. Gilmore is all soundbites.
I don't know lads, but I obvously have no grasp of what a leader should be or what he should be like, but I just find Martin arrogant, also as I said earlier, how can he possibly have any credibility,he's been health minister, foreign minister and enterprise minister over the past 14yrs - ffs lads, I mean, so we have to say anything more about him? By his performance we can we judge him.
Just looking at that again, can somebody tell me what a leader should be like and why? Do you think Martin's bullying style would go well with Merkel? Maybe Sarko would find someone equally snivelly a novelty?
Martin can debate the issues better then Enda.
However Martin setup the HSE. So thats that.
Enda is playing safe because he knows he's going to win.
Quote from: INDIANA on February 22, 2011, 11:03:23 PM
Quote from: Sandino on February 22, 2011, 10:58:59 PM
Does FF not have to follow the same debating rules as everyone else? Martin speaking over everyone else and being allowed to speak longer than other speakers. The same as in previous debates. WTF was he doing for the last 14 years when he had the power to impliment all his 'new ideas'. I am stunned thst FF are still going to get such a strong vote in this election, 20% of the vote would be a shame for these .........................ers
Martin setup the HSE. So that will be enough to ensure FF has a disastrous election. But Kenny on TV is an own goal for FG.
Prof Crown probably the leading oncologist in the state described Martin as the worst Health minister he has experienced in his time in the country. Martin's solution to everything was to set up a review, appoint external consultants to write a report etc etc, wouldn't make a decision himself without asscovering material.
Quote from: INDIANA on February 22, 2011, 11:05:07 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 22, 2011, 11:02:01 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on February 22, 2011, 10:45:15 PM
I hate FF with a passion I cant describe. But martin is the only leader on TV tonight.
I wont be voting FF but I'm debating whether I'll vote FG or Labour after the last few weeks.
Enda is a diabolical debater. Dire. Gilmore is all soundbites.
I don't know lads, but I obvously have no grasp of what a leader should be or what he should be like, but I just find Martin arrogant, also as I said earlier, how can he possibly have any credibility,he's been health minister, foreign minister and enterprise minister over the past 14yrs - ffs lads, I mean, so we have to say anything more about him? By his performance we can we judge him.
Just looking at that again, can somebody tell me what a leader should be like and why? Do you think Martin's bullying style would go well with Merkel? Maybe Sarko would find someone equally snivelly a novelty?
Martin can debate the issues better then Enda.
However Martin setup the HSE. So thats that.
Enda is playing safe because he knows he's going to win.
Yeah agree totally, Enda is like a golfer coming down the back stretch on a major with a 5 stroke lead. Play par and keep out of trouble and in fairness even Van de Velde would struggle to lose from here.
Quote from: Ulick on February 22, 2011, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: Sandino on February 22, 2011, 10:58:59 PM
Does FF not have to follow the same debating rules as everyone else? Martin speaking over everyone else and being allowed to speak longer than other speakers. The same as in previous debates. WTF was he doing for the last 14 years when he had the power to impliment all his 'new ideas'. I am stunned thst FF are still going to get such a strong vote in this election, 20% of the vote would be a shame for these .........................ers
They're down to 14% in tomorrows poll.
What about the other parties?
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 22, 2011, 11:10:25 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 22, 2011, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: Sandino on February 22, 2011, 10:58:59 PM
Does FF not have to follow the same debating rules as everyone else? Martin speaking over everyone else and being allowed to speak longer than other speakers. The same as in previous debates. WTF was he doing for the last 14 years when he had the power to impliment all his 'new ideas'. I am stunned thst FF are still going to get such a strong vote in this election, 20% of the vote would be a shame for these .........................ers
They're down to 14% in tomorrows poll.
What about the other parties?
Irish Independent poll: Milward Browne 22-02-2011
FG 38 +1
Lab 20 No Change
FF 14 -2
SF 11 -1
Green 1
Ind 16 +2
Debate was really dull, Martin was a thug, Gilmore and Kenny passable.
I have come to the conclusion that the people of the 26 Counties are not fit for self governance, and many of them are probably secretly relieved that the ECB are now making decisions for them, as they recognise their own inadequacy in this regard. Turkeys voting for Christmas, are intelligent by comparison with the free state electorate
Whatever else happens this Friday....Vote NO on proposition 24....NO on 24....NO on 24....NO on 24!
Quote from: ballinaman on February 23, 2011, 02:27:08 AM
Whatever else happens this Friday....Vote NO on proposition 24....NO on 24....NO on 24....NO on 24!
Abortions for some, little American flags for others.
Quote from: Pangurban on February 23, 2011, 02:22:34 AM
I have come to the conclusion that the people of the 26 Counties are not fit for self governance, and many of them are probably secretly relieved that the ECB are now making decisions for them, as they recognise their own inadequacy in this regard. Turkeys voting for Christmas, are intelligent by comparison with the free state electorate
Well you can fck right off with your condescending horse shite.
And take a look at the propped up basket case which you call home.
I came to the conclusion last night that maybe we should be increasing TDs and Ministers instead of reducing them. Make it an attractive career for qualified people who might actually sort this crap out.
The three lads around the table last night resembled nothing more than a drunken row in a pub
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2011, 09:47:29 AM
I came to the conclusion last night that maybe we should be increasing TDs and Ministers instead of reducing them. Make it an attractive career for qualified people who might actually sort this crap out.
The three lads around the table last night resembled nothing more than a drunken row in a pub
i presume you meant salaries? I agree to an extent, although i'd also like to throw in some stipulation about working in the real world for a certain amount of years.
Last night we had a primary teacher
v a primary teacher
v a trade union activist.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 23, 2011, 10:18:26 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2011, 09:47:29 AM
I came to the conclusion last night that maybe we should be increasing TDs and Ministers instead of reducing them. Make it an attractive career for qualified people who might actually sort this crap out.
The three lads around the table last night resembled nothing more than a drunken row in a pub
i presume you meant salaries? I agree to an extent, although i'd also like to throw in some stipulation about working in the real world for a certain amount of years.
Last night we had a primary teacher v a primary teacher v a trade union activist.
Yes Salaries I meant. :D
(http://www.irishtimes.com/cartoons/turner/2011/0223/23.jpg)
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 23, 2011, 10:18:26 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2011, 09:47:29 AM
I came to the conclusion last night that maybe we should be increasing TDs and Ministers instead of reducing them. Make it an attractive career for qualified people who might actually sort this crap out.
The three lads around the table last night resembled nothing more than a drunken row in a pub
i presume you meant salaries? I agree to an extent, although i'd also like to throw in some stipulation about working in the real world for a certain amount of years.
Last night we had a primary teacher v a primary teacher v a trade union activist.
Yes Bogball, much better if we had the accountant & economist from Drumcondra :D :D They were 3 bloody Culchies too ::) ::)
The last of the Munster predictions are in, bringing our total seats predicted to 118. 60 seats for an overall majority, but we're not predicting anything of the sort at the moment. It does look like FG and Labour can make a comfortable enough majority, but Sinn Fein's (optimistic) total would actually make them a stronger coalition partner. I'll be putting up the Dublin constituencies today and tomorrow, so see how close we can get.
Fine Gael - 46
Fianna Fail - 24
Sinn Fein 23
Labour - 17
United Left Alliance - 1
Others - 7
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-6.jpg)
The Constituency results were
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const2728.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const2930.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const31.jpg)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 23, 2011, 12:47:38 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 23, 2011, 10:18:26 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2011, 09:47:29 AM
I came to the conclusion last night that maybe we should be increasing TDs and Ministers instead of reducing them. Make it an attractive career for qualified people who might actually sort this crap out.
The three lads around the table last night resembled nothing more than a drunken row in a pub
i presume you meant salaries? I agree to an extent, although i'd also like to throw in some stipulation about working in the real world for a certain amount of years.
Last night we had a primary teacher v a primary teacher v a trade union activist.
Yes Bogball, much better if we had the accountant & economist from Drumcondra :D :D They were 3 bloody Culchies too ::) ::)
Exactly, culchies can't really identify with the needs of big city dwellers, maybe there should be a quota to ensure that city dwellers get proper representation at the top table too?
As for the accountant from Drumcondra, I'm not sure we have had one of those before. There was the shop steward who used to do the bank reconciliations in the Mater hospital though. It turned out that he was an economic genius too - sure he was in worldwide demand to give talks about the economic miracle he engineered.
"I've voted Fianna Fáil all my life, and will probably do so again on the day, but I'd like to see Fine Gael with an overall majority" (some elderly county Galway lad on Primetime there).
WTF! And we wonder how we're where we are!
(https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=299a1281b0&view=att&th=12e544502612e0e5&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw)
Did anyone watch that debate there?
Pearse Doherty said that he'd cut ministers wages (180,000) by 40% and cut TD wages by 20%. The anchor asked him to ask others if they'd do the same and not a being would agree, FF siad they were making cuts to wages in the Dail but FG siad absolutely not. They'll cut child benefit and minimum wage but won't take a cut to their hefty wages....great leaders...
the other night there, 2 lads came to the door. They were canvassing for Pat Burton, a Fine Gael co councillor here in Cork. They asked who would I be voting for and I replied, " not FF anyway but to be honest I am not sure about FG either. I can't see much detail in their plan and as a Gaeilgeoir I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from FG!!" Says one of them back to me....." oh, we're not FG voters either, we are just friends of Pat, helping him a bit" I mean what can you do about that. I still don't know who to vote for, the local Sinn Fein candidate voted in the city council, against the Cork Co board getting vital land to develop the centre of excellence and P Ui C. He is a director of Cork City Fc and loathes the GAA! I will not vote FF, and the Labour people have not come to my house at all!! Independents by the score are going for the dail here so I am tempted to go for a few of them to be honest! Talk about a lack of choice!!
Thats a bit of a nightmare cicfada. I'd say SF wouldn't be too happy with that candidate. I doubt that would do their popularity any good! All i'll say is don't vote FG! They are gonna throw the culture away with the sovereignty!
Quote from: cicfada on February 23, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
the other night there, 2 lads came to the door. They were canvassing for Pat Burton, a Fine Gael co councillor here in Cork. They asked who would I be voting for and I replied, " not FF anyway but to be honest I am not sure about FG either. I can't see much detail in their plan and as a Gaeilgeoir I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from FG!!" Says one of them back to me....." oh, we're not FG voters either, we are just friends of Pat, helping him a bit" I mean what can you do about that. I still don't know who to vote for, the local Sinn Fein candidate voted in the city council, against the Cork Co board getting vital land to develop the centre of excellence and P Ui C. He is a director of Cork City Fc and loathes the GAA! I will not vote FF, and the Labour people have not come to my house at all!! Independents by the score are going for the dail here so I am tempted to go for a few of them to be honest! Talk about a lack of choice!!
name the shinner please
According to an opinion poll in the Anglo Celt paper in cavan, Sinn Fein are on track to win 2 seat although FG are making a fight for the last one. O Caoliain is going to top the poll with a sizeable surplus which is predicted to go 80% to Kateryn Reilly.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 23, 2011, 10:53:37 PM
According to an opinion poll in the Anglo Celt paper in cavan, Sinn Fein are on track to win 2 seat although FG are making a fight for the last one. O Caoliain is going to top the poll with a sizeable surplus which is predicted to go 80% to Kateryn Reilly.
o caoliain is a terrific td and a worthy representative and I've heard Reilly on the radio equally competant. i have to say young mcgurk i think his name is- sounds very impressive i'd like to see him get in
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 23, 2011, 02:41:55 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 23, 2011, 12:47:38 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 23, 2011, 10:18:26 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 23, 2011, 09:47:29 AM
I came to the conclusion last night that maybe we should be increasing TDs and Ministers instead of reducing them. Make it an attractive career for qualified people who might actually sort this crap out.
The three lads around the table last night resembled nothing more than a drunken row in a pub
i presume you meant salaries? I agree to an extent, although i'd also like to throw in some stipulation about working in the real world for a certain amount of years.
Last night we had a primary teacher v a primary teacher v a trade union activist.
Yes Bogball, much better if we had the accountant & economist from Drumcondra :D :D They were 3 bloody Culchies too ::) ::)
Exactly, culchies can't really identify with the needs of big city dwellers, maybe there should be a quota to ensure that city dwellers get proper representation at the top table too?
As for the accountant from Drumcondra, I'm not sure we have had one of those before. There was the shop steward who used to do the bank reconciliations in the Mater hospital though. It turned out that he was an economic genius too - sure he was in worldwide demand to give talks about the economic miracle he engineered.
You having a bloody laugh, maybe there should have been a quota to represent the people West of the Shannon, shited on from a high since the Brits fckd off (and under them too).
Quote from: cicfada on February 23, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
the other night there, 2 lads came to the door. They were canvassing for Pat Burton, a Fine Gael co councillor here in Cork. They asked who would I be voting for and I replied, " not FF anyway but to be honest I am not sure about FG either. I can't see much detail in their plan and as a Gaeilgeoir I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from FG!!" Says one of them back to me....." oh, we're not FG voters either, we are just friends of Pat, helping him a bit" I mean what can you do about that. I still don't know who to vote for, the local Sinn Fein candidate voted in the city council, against the Cork Co board getting vital land to develop the centre of excellence and P Ui C. He is a director of Cork City Fc and loathes the GAA! I will not vote FF, and the Labour people have not come to my house at all!! Independents by the score are going for the dail here so I am tempted to go for a few of them to be honest! Talk about a lack of choice!!
Jesus man, Fine Gael want to encourge Irish by making it a choice, and one Sein Fein man not being a fan of the GAA is not worth letting those traitors off.
Quote from: Poc me on February 23, 2011, 10:39:08 PM
Thats a bit of a nightmare cicfada. I'd say SF wouldn't be too happy with that candidate. I doubt that would do their popularity any good! All i'll say is don't vote FG! They are gonna throw the culture away with the sovereignty!
Throw what culture away, they are making Irish a choice not a chore. The Welsh speak it because the want to.
The Sinn Fein candidates name is Jonathon O'Brien and as for the Irish, Kenny has twice appointed people to spokesmen for the Gaeltacht portfolio that have NO Irish at all This allied to getting rid of Irish for the LC, ( that's effectively what it is) just does not sit well with me! It will decimate the economies of the Gaeltacht areas as the "Mna ti! rely on Sumer courses for much of their annual income! Kenny says that he wants to establish a commissoin to examine the teaching of Irish in school but has already decided to get rid of thecompulsion of Irish for the LC. What's the piont in the commission then?? Sure he has already made his mind up!!
The Welsh have a healthy respect for their own language as they are taught it by the fireside. It is also one of the only ways in which they can get in touch with their culture. Ireland is fortunate to have a rich array of cultural activities ranging from story-telling (English or Irish), dancing, Gaelic games, ceol, etc. etc.
The thing is though that many people don't seem to care about the language. It wasn't beaten out of the Irish like the English tried to beat Wlesh from the Welsh. Many Irish actually actively sought an English education in order to 'further' themselves. My big fear would be that Ireland would become a country smply of monoglots and the teaching of French/Spanish/German etc., would not change this in any way. People who are linguistically talented will tend to be good at all languages, so those who develop a good understanding of another language of the FG regime will be lost to their own language.
Tír gan teanga, Tír gan anam.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 23, 2011, 09:48:59 PM
"I've voted Fianna Fáil all my life, and will probably do so again on the day, but I'd like to see Fine Gael with an overall majority" (some elderly county Galway lad on Primetime there).
WTF! And we wonder how we're where we are!
Or consider the logic of supporting the progressive policies of Healy-Rae-ism: "yerra, since oo rang me up at dis hour, sure I'll give oo the number one".
This is worth another listen by every voter as they consider our predicament and how we got there before they deploy their "stupid oul pencils" ( (c) B. Ahern) tomorrow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRYzqvRtww (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRYzqvRtww)
If the economy was a game and FF was defending and international speculators were attacking and Lenihan was the goalkeeper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQngj516J1U&feature=related)
found this on you tube, is it real?
(http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CO3VxKTSkuGDMRCsAhjvATIIWTs1iiyzdck)
Yes it is real. There was a thread here about it too. It's quite sad really.
Quotethe local Sinn Fein candidate voted in the city council, against the Cork Co board getting vital land to develop the centre of excellence and P Ui C. He is a director of Cork City Fc and loathes the GAA!
That's mad, and very Cork. ;D
Interesting newspaper poll in sligo see's Perry (FG), Colreavy (SF) and O Keefe (labour) getting in and both FF candidates missing out. Bit of a suprise result for me I have to say as I thought 1 FF and 2 FG would get in. Will be interesting to see whether this bears out in reality.
http://www.sligoweekender.ie/tabId/451/itemId/8629/Poll-shows-no-place-for-Fianna-Fail.aspx
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It is important to also note the moratorium does not apply to websites or to on the ground canvassers. Canvassers are only banned from anywhere within 100m of a polling station on the day of the election so do not be surprised if a canvasser calls to your door on Thursday evening!
I fear that FF will do better than they deserve in the election. I hope I'm wrong.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 23, 2011, 10:53:37 PM
According to an opinion poll in the Anglo Celt paper in cavan, Sinn Fein are on track to win 2 seat although FG are making a fight for the last one. O Caoliain is going to top the poll with a sizeable surplus which is predicted to go 80% to Kateryn Reilly.
Eh? Accoring to the story on their site it will be a "small surplus" which "could be higher than 1,000 votes".
http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/02/23/4003339-cliff-hanger-as-fg-and-sf-do-battle-for-extra-seats/
It also says "it is not an opinion poll in the absolute scientific sense." So i'd take it with a big health warning.
The poll was apparently conducted in Bailieborough, Ballyjamesduff, Belturbet, Cavan, Carrickmacross, Castleblayney, Clones and Monaghan. That's leaving out quite a few towns and all of the country folk (i.e. c.75% of the population).
It looks like FG's gamble might not pay off though. It seems that their vote management isn't up to much at all with the candidates going all over the constituency to canvass for votes and no real strategy for transfers.
I've also read in a few places that the SF vote is the least likely to actually turn out (not in a Cavan/Monaghan sense, but generally). I didn't really understand that myself and was surprised by it. Is that based on low turnout in working class areas or what?
Quote've also read in a few places that the SF vote is the least likely to actually turn out (not in a Cavan/Monaghan sense, but generally). I didn't really understand that myself and was surprised by it. Is that based on low turnout in working class areas or what?
SF is probably with the non-working class, who often don't vote. They may not have the machine to get everyone out, but they'll probably bring a few extra into the democratic process.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 24, 2011, 02:16:42 PM
Interesting newspaper poll in sligo see's Perry (FG), Colreavy (SF) and O Keefe (labour) getting in and both FF candidates missing out. Bit of a suprise result for me I have to say as I thought 1 FF and 2 FG would get in. Will be interesting to see whether this bears out in reality.
http://www.sligoweekender.ie/tabId/451/itemId/8629/Poll-shows-no-place-for-Fianna-Fail.aspx
Can't see o'Keeffe getting in .... but I've been known to get things wrong before :D
Well I hope that everyone who can vote will get out and do it tomorrow. I have a vote as I left after September, but due to work I won't be flying home. So if you can vote and are entitled to, use your 1 voting card in 1 const. and vote. Think about the future of Ireland not local or personal issues, whoever you vote for, vote.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2011, 06:21:37 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 23, 2011, 10:53:37 PM
According to an opinion poll in the Anglo Celt paper in cavan, Sinn Fein are on track to win 2 seat although FG are making a fight for the last one. O Caoliain is going to top the poll with a sizeable surplus which is predicted to go 80% to Kateryn Reilly.
Eh? Accoring to the story on their site it will be a "small surplus" which "could be higher than 1,000 votes".
http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/02/23/4003339-cliff-hanger-as-fg-and-sf-do-battle-for-extra-seats/
It also says "it is not an opinion poll in the absolute scientific sense." So i'd take it with a big health warning.
The poll was apparently conducted in Bailieborough, Ballyjamesduff, Belturbet, Cavan, Carrickmacross, Castleblayney, Clones and Monaghan. That's leaving out quite a few towns and all of the country folk (i.e. c.75% of the population).
It looks like FG's gamble might not pay off though. It seems that their vote management isn't up to much at all with the candidates going all over the constituency to canvass for votes and no real strategy for transfers.
I've also read in a few places that the SF vote is the least likely to actually turn out (not in a Cavan/Monaghan sense, but generally). I didn't really understand that myself and was surprised by it. Is that based on low turnout in working class areas or what?
If a person gets elected in Cavan/Monaghan with say 5000 votes then id say 1000 is sizeable surplus. I did say it was an opinion poll which like any opinion poll could be wildly wrong.
Maguire do you reckon FG vote management is that bad up in Cavan-Mon? How are the other parties record up there?
Just read on politics.ie that Fianna Fáil's Avril Power is doing a leaflet drop in Dublin NE tonight with the following:
Quote
To keep Sinn Féin out, Averil needs your No.1 vote or next highest preference. Only Averil can beat O'Toole. Vote strategically and KEEP SINN FÉIN OUT!
A vote for Averil is a vote for:
* a Trinity College Business Graduate with extensive policy experience
* a fresh and hardworking local representative
* a constructive member of the opposition who will support Government policies that will fix the economy & create jobs
By contrast, letting Sinn Féin take this Dáil seat will mean:
* a lack of credible opposition at the local and national level
* a voice for anti-enterprise policies & punitive income taxes
* obstruction of measures to reduce crime
The Sinn Féin candiate in Dublin NE is Larry O'Toole, long time community activist and anti-drugs campaigner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS2-IUPi1c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS2-IUPi1c)
Avril Power is the wife of Fionnan Sheahan from the Independent.
(http://www.realbuzz.com/static/uploads/228685/originals/32356.jpg)
Quote from: Ulick on February 24, 2011, 09:15:15 PM
Just read on politics.ie that Fianna Fáil's Avril Power is doing a leaflet drop in Dublin NE tonight with the following:
Quote
To keep Sinn Féin out, Averil needs your No.1 vote or next highest preference. Only Averil can beat O'Toole. Vote strategically and KEEP SINN FÉIN OUT!
A vote for Averil is a vote for:
* a Trinity College Business Graduate with extensive policy experience
* a fresh and hardworking local representative
* a constructive member of the opposition who will support Government policies that will fix the economy & create jobs
By contrast, letting Sinn Féin take this Dáil seat will mean:
* a lack of credible opposition at the local and national level
* a voice for anti-enterprise policies & punitive income taxes
* obstruction of measures to reduce crime
The Sinn Féin candiate in Dublin NE is Larry O'Toole, long time community activist and anti-drugs campaigner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS2-IUPi1c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS2-IUPi1c)
Avril Power is the wife of Fionnan Sheahan from the Independent.
(http://www.realbuzz.com/static/uploads/228685/originals/32356.jpg)
Ya I saw that too Ulick, had a thread started on it. Absolute panic stations. Sein Fein couldn't get better canvassing tonight if they tried. I hope to fck it backfires on her.
If I saw that come in my door, it would have bought SF a transfer.
Indeed. If eligibility to the Dáil was based on pure hard work and service to the community there wouldn't be a more deserving member than O'Toole. Fecking trumped up tart - Larry beating her for the last seat would be my 'Portillo moment'.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 24, 2011, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2011, 06:21:37 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 23, 2011, 10:53:37 PM
According to an opinion poll in the Anglo Celt paper in cavan, Sinn Fein are on track to win 2 seat although FG are making a fight for the last one. O Caoliain is going to top the poll with a sizeable surplus which is predicted to go 80% to Kateryn Reilly.
Eh? Accoring to the story on their site it will be a "small surplus" which "could be higher than 1,000 votes".
http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/02/23/4003339-cliff-hanger-as-fg-and-sf-do-battle-for-extra-seats/
It also says "it is not an opinion poll in the absolute scientific sense." So i'd take it with a big health warning.
The poll was apparently conducted in Bailieborough, Ballyjamesduff, Belturbet, Cavan, Carrickmacross, Castleblayney, Clones and Monaghan. That's leaving out quite a few towns and all of the country folk (i.e. c.75% of the population).
It looks like FG's gamble might not pay off though. It seems that their vote management isn't up to much at all with the candidates going all over the constituency to canvass for votes and no real strategy for transfers.
I've also read in a few places that the SF vote is the least likely to actually turn out (not in a Cavan/Monaghan sense, but generally). I didn't really understand that myself and was surprised by it. Is that based on low turnout in working class areas or what?
If a person gets elected in Cavan/Monaghan with say 5000 votes then id say 1000 is sizeable surplus. I did say it was an opinion poll which like any opinion poll could be wildly wrong.
I can't see anyone getting elected on 5,000 votes. Or even 8,000. The quota is likely to be around 10,000 i'd imagine, and whilst the fifth candidate might not make the quota, they'll be a bit closer than that.
But my point was you referred to the article and a 'sizeable' surplus, whereas the article referenced a 'small' surplus.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 24, 2011, 09:14:43 PM
Maguire do you reckon FG vote management is that bad up in Cavan-Mon? How are the other parties record up there?
I'm not living there, it's just what i'm reading online. There doesn't seem to be any real strategy. It comes across like the FG candidates are in all-out competition with each other rather than working as a team to get 3 of them over the line.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 24, 2011, 09:23:10 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 24, 2011, 09:15:15 PM
Just read on politics.ie that Fianna Fáil's Avril Power is doing a leaflet drop in Dublin NE tonight with the following:
Quote
To keep Sinn Féin out, Averil needs your No.1 vote or next highest preference. Only Averil can beat O'Toole. Vote strategically and KEEP SINN FÉIN OUT!
A vote for Averil is a vote for:
* a Trinity College Business Graduate with extensive policy experience
* a fresh and hardworking local representative
* a constructive member of the opposition who will support Government policies that will fix the economy & create jobs
By contrast, letting Sinn Féin take this Dáil seat will mean:
* a lack of credible opposition at the local and national level
* a voice for anti-enterprise policies & punitive income taxes
* obstruction of measures to reduce crime
The Sinn Féin candiate in Dublin NE is Larry O'Toole, long time community activist and anti-drugs campaigner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS2-IUPi1c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS2-IUPi1c)
Avril Power is the wife of Fionnan Sheahan from the Independent.
Ya I saw that too Ulick, had a thread started on it. Absolute panic stations. Sein Fein couldn't get better canvassing tonight if they tried. I hope to fck it backfires on her.
If I saw that come in my door, it would have bought SF a transfer.
Would it have bought SF a transfer if FG had done it?
Having read the thread on p.ie it seems it might only have been done in traditional FF areas, to mobilise 'their own' vote. It could backfire spectacularly or it might make no difference wither way.
Apologies if this has been posted before...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6U-K24BY0&feature=channel
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 24, 2011, 10:18:56 PM
Having read the thread on p.ie it seems it might only have been done in traditional FF areas, to mobilise 'their own' vote. It could backfire spectacularly or it might make no difference wither way.
There's no such thing as a 'traditional FF area' in this election; that's a luxury they've well squandered.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 24, 2011, 01:35:02 PM
Yes it is real. There was a thread here about it too. It's quite sad really.
Enda kept falling on the traffic cones for me. Was constantly expecting him to say "Oh jazes, me hip!".
By Jesus, would you look at the eleventh hour billing and cooing between the Fine Gael party and the Sinn Féin party?
Enda said he wouldn't touch them oul' Shinners with a shitty stick, and now here's Mayo God Help Us, as blue as the very sky above, willing to give them a transfer if only he'd seen a leaflet.
I wonder what'll it'll be like in Leinster House next week when Enda, the head melted from two hours of Joan Burton making demands and Pat Rabbitte looking down his snout at him, hears that soft Belfast burr down the line: "Enda? This is Gurry. Let's meet for coffee and a doughnut. We only want the one ministry, really. And maybe a junior for Mary Lou. Let's talk."
Ní neart go cur le chéile, wha'? I'm telling you, stranger things have happened.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on February 24, 2011, 11:43:21 PM
Ní neart go cur le chéile, wha'? I'm telling you, stranger things have happened.
Beidh sé sin go direach an chraic, a déarfainn! ;)
Hitting Liverpool in my Blueshirt with a Shinner mate ;)
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on February 24, 2011, 11:43:21 PM
By Jesus, would you look at the eleventh hour billing and cooing between the Fine Gael party and the Sinn Féin party?
Enda said he wouldn't touch them oul' Shinners with a shitty stick, and now here's Mayo God Help Us, as blue as the very sky above, willing to give them a transfer if only he'd seen a leaflet.
I wonder what'll it'll be like in Leinster House next week when Enda, the head melted from two hours of Joan Burton making demands and Pat Rabbitte looking down his snout at him, hears that soft Belfast burr down the line: "Enda? This is Gurry. Let's meet for coffee and a doughnut. We only want the one ministry, really. And maybe a junior for Mary Lou. Let's talk."
Ní neart go cur le chéile, wha'? I'm telling you, stranger things have happened.
The worry is that Enda won't need to be wooing anyone.
Ridiculous leaflet from Power, I don't think she's likely to get a seart anyway, but that sort of gutter politics means she doesn't deserve one, although she's in the right party anyway.
Decision made here, it's going to be Labour, has to be because I really can't countenance FG there on their own, they'll be the largest party, but the less seats the better imo.
According to Paddypower, Averil Power has a similar chance to John Gormley - she's 4/1. The 3rd seat in that constituency is between O'Toole and Sean Kenny of Labour, both 4/5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJ_7SqKxGI
:D
Quote from: ballinaman on February 25, 2011, 12:47:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJ_7SqKxGI&feature=player_embedded#at=26
:D
Brilliant ;D
Quote from: stephenite on February 25, 2011, 01:53:28 AM
Quote from: ballinaman on February 25, 2011, 12:47:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJ_7SqKxGI&feature=player_embedded#at=26
:D
Brilliant ;D
ha ha, fckn hilarious :D Go on Enda ya mad yoke.
The penultimate (thank God for that says ye) predictions of the GAA Board jury. (Or those who bothered/could find the polls). 139 seats predicted with just 6 south Dublin constituencies left. (I'll post them up this evening).
So far a tally of 70 would give you an overall majority, but it looks like we are predicting that will not happen. For us, SF have overtaken FF to be the second largest party. That fact alone makes me thing the SF supporters are very optimistic :D. It also is interesting though, that we are predicting Labour to finish behind FF in seats so far.
Fine Gael - 54
Sinn Fein - 26
Fianna Fail - 25
Labour - 22
Others - 9
ULA - 2
Greens - 1
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-7.jpg)
The North Dublin predictions are:
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const3233.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const3435.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const3637.jpg)
To be hoenst i wouldn't be surprised it FF get more seats that Labour. People are full of anger etc in public and still vote FF, sure they';ve gained a bit of resurgence in the past few polls and Labour are waning just a bit.
SF realistically will do well to get 12.
As I looked through the list of candidates for this and the other constituencies AZ has posted here, one thought in particular struck me.
The ones most likely to lose their seats are the ones least responsible for the mess we are in. For example, take Barry Andrews in this one. From what I hear from supporters and opponents alike, he is a sincere and hard-working individual but seems very likely to lose his seat today.
Hopefully,Hanafin will not make it either but she will certainly out poll him. She has a fighting chance even through she played her part in bringing the country to its knees. If there is to be a FF seat here, it should go to Andrews in all fairness.
Things are similar in Donegall South East, where Sweary Mary is well ahead of Brian Ó DOMHNAILL in the polls. If there choice were mine and FF had to be given a seat here, Ó Domhnaill would be miles ahead of the foul-mouthed second in command of the shower of gobshites we are going to dump today.
Out in Dublin West Brian Lenihan is said to be reasonably safe. FFS, along with Cowen and Ahern he has been the architect of our downfall and yet he is likely to be re-elected, while others of the FF brigade who are far less culpable will get the boot.
(I'm not quite sure of what I'm ranting about but it feels good to have got it out in the open!)
Point of order Mr. Chairman: in Dublin Nth today, neither David O'Connor (IND) nor Marcus de Brún (IND) appeared on the ballot paper.
The Dublin Nth (Gaaboard) result tallies with my prediction - interesting days ahead.
Unusually busy at Polling station this afternoon.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 25, 2011, 01:56:11 PM
As I looked through the list of candidates for this and the other constituencies AZ has posted here, one thought in particular struck me.
The ones most likely to lose their seats are the ones least responsible for the mess we are in. For example, take Barry Andrews in this one. From what I hear from supporters and opponents alike, he is a sincere and hard-working individual but seems very likely to lose his seat today.
Hopefully,Hanafin will not make it either but she will certainly out poll him. She has a fighting chance even through she played her part in bringing the country to its knees. If there is to be a FF seat here, it should go to Andrews in all fairness.
Things are similar in Donegall South East, where Sweary Mary is well ahead of Brian Ó DOMHNAILL in the polls. If there choice were mine and FF had to be given a seat here, Ó Domhnaill would be miles ahead of the foul-mouthed second in command of the shower of gobshites we are going to dump today.
Out in Dublin West Brian Lenihan is said to be reasonably safe. FFS, along with Cowen and Ahern he has been the architect of our downfall and yet he is likely to be re-elected, while others of the FF brigade who are far less culpable will get the boot.
(I'm not quite sure of what I'm ranting about but it feels good to have got it out in the open!)
You are right with regards to the least culpable getting the most punishment, but I think that Lenno is no shoe-in, personally, I don't think he'll make it, but people do funny things in polling booths.
RTÉ reporting Cavan/Monaghan @ 35% turnout at this stage - a bit low compared to some of the constituencies.
BBC were reporting that turnout was high in middle-class areas - assuming that's good news for FG.
Final Results are in from our predictions, with Fine Gael clearly being foreseen as the largest party, although well short of an overall majority. Even allowing for the Sinn Fein slant in some of the predictions, it looks like we are predicting a closer than expected race between Labour and FF for second, and Sinn Fein to have a very respectable showing indeed. It does look like the GAABoard predicts a strong showing in Dublin for Labour, as they ended up pipping FF and SF for second place in our results.
Final seat counts (83 required to form a government)
Fine Gael - 62
Labour - 30
Fianna Fail - 29
Sinn Fein - 29
ULA - 3
Greens - 2
Others - 11
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/OverallTally-8.jpg)
For the record, the South Dublin predictions went as follows
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const3839.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const4041.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/Const4243.jpg)
Thanks for your votes, and for your patience. Now we'll see how off our game we actually are.
Quote from: Billys Boots on February 25, 2011, 02:34:42 PM
Point of order Mr. Chairman: in Dublin Nth today, neither David O'Connor (IND) nor Marcus de Brún (IND) appeared on the ballot paper.
The Dublin Nth (Gaaboard) result tallies with my prediction - interesting days ahead.
Didn't notice that Billy but wasn't looking for either anyway . Do you know what the story is ? Could we be looking at voting again tomorrow if this is some sort of printers error ?
I don't think the GAA poll is reliable. As many people believe, the GAA is full of rabid republicans and is not typical of society. :P
SF will only get half the seats predicted here and Labour will get a lot of these. In many constituencies there are SF, Left Alliance FF, and weirdo candidates who are not going to make it, Labour will get a lot of transfers from these, they'll also get transfers from FG if there aren't any FG candidates left.
Fine Gael now 7/4 for 81+ seats with PP
Anyone any rough estimate for an average vote turnout in elections in the North? I'v just seen this below on RTE and can't believe it. The most important election for years and approximately 4 out of 10 people are voting! Plus those reported are likely to be in the higher region if 2007 figures are used as a comparison. Crazy stuff!
"Most parts of the country are reporting that more people have voted than at the same time four years ago - between 40 and 43% in Limerick City, for instance. Something similar in Tipperary North, which had the highest turnout in the country in 2007."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0225/election2011.html
That was about 6 o'clock this evening. That's higher than last time around in a lot of cases, including North Tipp which ended up with nearly 80% last time. I' expect 65% turnout or so. Well mis-interpreted though :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 25, 2011, 09:02:28 PM
That was about 6 o'clock this evening. That's higher than last time around in a lot of cases, including North Tipp which ended up with nearly 80% last time. I' expect 65% turnout or so. Well mis-interpreted though :D
Touche AZ, must try harder ;)
You get decent odds for the Shinners getting more than 20 seats, so if you believe the voting on this board lump on and you'll be able to afford a premium box for Croker.
So, the Exit Poll is out:
(http://img.rasset.ie/000448ac-640.jpg)
FF down @ 8% in Dublin.
This photo gave me a chuckle...
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/51433000/jpg/_51433953_011369203-1.jpg)
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2011, 08:42:35 AM
So, the Exit Poll is out:
(http://img.rasset.ie/000448ac-640.jpg)
FF down @ 8% in Dublin.
Looking like Fine Gael - Labour @ this stage.
given the exit votes the seats would break out something like
exit
60 fg
34 lab
25 ff
17 sf
26 ind
4 grn
165
FG and Labour will have to do some trading given their different approach on their agendas. Could there be a bit of horse trading with LAB, FF, SF and a few Inds' coming together to shaft Enda and FG ?
BBC Parliament showing RTE election coverage all day for those who can't get it.
Fine Gael and Labour should benefit a lot from transfer votes as well. 25 Fianna Fail TDs would be some come down for them.
Quote from: Ulick on February 26, 2011, 11:21:43 AM
BBC Parliament showing RTE election coverage all day for those who can't get it.
Excellent! thanks
(never thought that station would be useful!)
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 26, 2011, 11:26:39 AM
Fine Gael and Labour should benefit a lot from transfer votes as well. 25 Fianna Fail TDs would be some come down for them.
The analysts are talking low 20s at best.
At 8% in Dublin - possible wipeout. Looking at 1-2 seats in the capital at best.
They are 'transfer toxic' as well, so when we get to 3rd and 4th counts, they'll start dropping like flies.
Larry O'Toole polling in joint second ;D
Are labour the biggest party in Dublin in the exit poll?
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 26, 2011, 11:42:07 AM
Are labour the biggest party in Dublin in the exit poll?
Yep, and I think FF come in behind SF
Michael Lowry wins Tipperary North. Some things never change.
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 26, 2011, 11:42:07 AM
Are labour the biggest party in Dublin in the exit poll?
RTE reporting both Hanafan and the other FF minister muppet in dun Laoghaire well off the pace based on the first count.
Fabliss. The end of an era.
But look at the mess they left behind
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-bank-guarantee-a-mistake-we-must-fix-2548026.html
Aengus O'Snodaigh safe and Sean Crowe looking very strong ;D
Paul "fcuk you deputy stagg" Gogarty concedes defeat.
FF in the low 20's seat wise is a reasonable result considering their recent actions.
Some serious names in big trouble. Mary Coughlan and Mary Hanafin ( ;D) to name but 2.
Pearse Doc and Padraig MacLochlainn flying high in Donegal ;D
Coughlan fighting for last seat against ex-SF man Thomas Pringle. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Early results looking good for Ming
Doherty elected in Donegal with 33%. SF could have got two in here but Doherty's estimated 5k surplus should help Pringle against Sweary Mary.
I dropped in to the City Hall for a while to observe democracy in action. I checked a good few tallies (about half of the 30-or so being taken for Cork South Central) by looking over shoulders and the stand-out feature was Michael McGrath (2nd FF incumbent) scoring very high - about level with Martin and Coveney. This held consistently over the half hour or so I spent having a look. I came out thinking of having a bet that he would keep his seat against all predictions.
Then I got home and saw tweets that he's only polling at 6% in the tallies and RTÉ saying he's in trouble. It shows how skewed the tallies can be in the early stages - there must have been a batch of McGrath's local boxes opened all at the same time.
I saw some very strange papers, too - 1 Coveney, 2 Martin, for instance. It's a reminder that a lot of votes are personal rather than party. I also saw one paper where somebody had given No. 1 to each of the first three candidates alphabetically, then a 2 and a 3 elsewhere on the paper and nothing else! Should such a person have a vote?
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 26, 2011, 12:21:59 PM
Some serious names in big trouble. Mary Coughlan and Mary Hanafin ( ;D) to name but 2.
They were all useless when it really counted. Coughlan was the worst Tanaiste in a very long time.
The Greens are gone. Gormley was never likely to return, but Cuffe and Ryan do not have enough first preferences to stay in the count long enough to pick up the later preferences. Sargant might manage to stay in.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on February 26, 2011, 10:43:48 AM
given the exit votes the seats would break out something like
exit
60 fg
34 lab
25 ff
17 sf
26 ind
4 grn
165
FG and Labour will have to do some trading given their different approach on their agendas. Could there be a bit of horse trading with LAB, FF, SF and a few Inds' coming together to shaft Enda and FG ?
Exits polls are first preferences. The figures above will men higher seats for FG, FF and Labour who are likely to get transfers and lower for independents Greens and maybe SF who have less candidates to benefit from transfers.
I respect and salute the good people of the City of Dublin.
Wipeout for FF!
Fianna Fail wont do well on transfers.
Also the greens were warned what would happrn if they went into government with ff by me.
Yeah but 40% of them voted FF in 2007
The scale of Fianna Fáil's losses are so great that a number of high-profile ministers, including finance minister Brian Lenihan, who negotiated the bailout, are in danger of losing their seats
says the guardian.
Is this true?
According to RTÉ, Fine Gael took 36.1% of the vote, with Labour coming second with 20.5%. Fianna Fáil support is put at just 15.1%, by far its worst general election result, and will mean a massive loss of seats across the country – including a wipeout in the capital.
The independents combined have pushed Fianna Fáil into fourth place – the party's worst performance since Éamon De Valera founded the party in the 1920s. In Dublin, Fianna Fáil support barely hit 8%.
Heard on the radio Brian is safe. Conor on the telly now conceding.
Quote1357 Dun Laoghaire: Final Tally - Eamon Gilmore 20%, Sean Barrett 19%, Mary Mitchell O'Connor 16%, Richard Boyd Barrett 10.8%, Ivana Bacik 10.46%, Mary Hanafin 9%, Barry Andrews 6%, Ciaran Cuffe 3.75%.
Gilmore, Barrett and O'Connor expected to take first three seats. Bacik and Boyd Barrett are expected to battle for fourth seat.
Fianna Fáil is not conceding a seat for Hanafin, but says it will be hard for her to take the final seat
(http://tribewithted.mlblogs.com/fingers-crossed_sxc-776014.jpg)
I reckon Sf will get 16 seats
That many?? thought they'd be happy with doubling their current tally
It's the last seats that are the interesting ones, once the transfers come into play.
Anyone word on how the third Rubberbandit, Willie O'Dea is doing?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2011, 02:57:15 PM
That many?? thought they'd be happy with doubling their current tally
Yeah, but I'd imagine they'd be even happier with 16 ;)
Quote from: Celt_Man on February 26, 2011, 03:09:54 PM
Anyone word on how the third Rubberbandit, Willie O'Dea is doing?
Tally men have him well down but likely to hold his seat.
No one to be elected on first count in Cavan/Monaghan. Quota = 11k+
The Celt were off the mark on the surplus. Will take a while to fill the fifth seat -1xFF, 1xSF,2xFG and the last between SF and FG.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 26, 2011, 03:15:57 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on February 26, 2011, 03:09:54 PM
Anyone word on how the third Rubberbandit, Willie O'Dea is doing?
Tally men have him well down but likely to hold his seat.
Pity...
Looking like a good day lads (in terms of some high profile FF ministers getting the boot). Interesting sidenote from the RTÉ exit poll, FF polled 8% in Dublin which would suggest that a lot of people were ashamed when asked about their preference and lied. Just goes to show you that people will do anything in the privacy of the polling booth.
A load of FF ministers are rejected. To go with all the ones who chickened out.
There won't be more than a handful of them left standing.
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2011, 03:53:12 PM
A load of FF ministers are rejected. To go with all the ones who chickened out.
There won't be more than a handful of them left standing.
Twitter:
Eamon de Valera, Larry Goodman, Ryan Tubridy, Bertie, Mary O'Rourke, Charlie Haughey, Sean Haughey - YOUR BOYS TOOK ONE HELL OF A BEEEEETING
Coughlin looks in deep trouble ;D
http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/02/26/tense-battles-for-the-last-seat-in-both-donegal-constituencies/
Quote from: FL/MAYO on February 26, 2011, 04:09:45 PM
Coughlin looks in deep trouble ;D
http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/02/26/tense-battles-for-the-last-seat-in-both-donegal-constituencies/
She is useless anyway.
4 FG in Mayo. Jaysus.
Quote from: FL/MAYO on February 26, 2011, 04:09:45 PM
Coughlin looks in deep trouble ;D
http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/02/26/tense-battles-for-the-last-seat-in-both-donegal-constituencies/
She has just been led out in a straight jacket.
She was shouting "you can't handle the truth".
I thought she was saying "cheapest bailout in the world".
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 04:29:03 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on February 26, 2011, 04:09:45 PM
Coughlin looks in deep trouble ;D
http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/02/26/tense-battles-for-the-last-seat-in-both-donegal-constituencies/ (http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/02/26/tense-battles-for-the-last-seat-in-both-donegal-constituencies/)
She has just been led out in a straight jacket.
She was shouting "you can't handle the truth".
Surely it was "you f**kers can't fuckin handle the fuckin truth".
RTEcorkSOUTHCENTRAL: #csc #ge11. 2 men physically removed from count centre by Gardai nd officials They had posters of E Kenny as woman and M Martin as priest.
Sat Feb 26 15:23:52 via Twitter for iPhone
RTEcorkSOUTHCENTRAL: Men say they from tir na gasta protest group. Say they peaceful and have right to attend count. Still outside. #csc. #ge11
Sat Feb 26 15:27:40 via Twitter for iPhone
Some interesting characters look like getting in . Ming in Ros, Wallace in Wexford, Shane Ross in Dublin South. There could be some very interesting policy discussions . I'd say FF are going to really struggle to get over this. Buiochas le Dia.
TV3/P.ie projecting:
FG 78
Lab 36
FF 17
SF 16
GP 1
IND 18
Can SF pip FF to third and be possibly the biggest opposition party?
Can SF do a deal with FG and be in Government??
Twitter: Frank Fahy concedes defeat.
He'll be missed.
I can't believe Healy Rae looks like getting in Kerry South. The Gombeen politician hasn't gone away you know.
RTE Radio predict FF 22 seats approx
anywhere reliable for a decent update. RTE seem to be out of joint, haven't SF already had 2 elected (Adams, Doherty), and yet RTE headline says only 1
still listening in on RTE. With every count given, there appears to be 100's of spoilt votes, how do they manage it?
Also entertaining to hear the person giving the official counts panic, stumble, get flabbergasted etc. One lad has just tried to make it sound really professional with his full numbers and single numbers repeat, but failed desperately to get this done correctly
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 26, 2011, 05:01:02 PM
I can't believe Healy Rae looks like getting in Kerry South. The Gombeen politician hasn't gone away you know.
How could they? The people haven't gone away, you know. Look at Lowry in Tipp or Ring in Mayo.
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2011, 06:37:28 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 26, 2011, 05:01:02 PM
I can't believe Healy Rae looks like getting in Kerry South. The Gombeen politician hasn't gone away you know.
How could they? The people haven't gone away, you know. Look at Lowry in Tipp or Ring in Mayo.
Yea but on the other hand: Mammy and Dick Roche!
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 06:41:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2011, 06:37:28 PM
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on February 26, 2011, 05:01:02 PM
I can't believe Healy Rae looks like getting in Kerry South. The Gombeen politician hasn't gone away you know.
How could they? The people haven't gone away, you know. Look at Lowry in Tipp or Ring in Mayo.
Yea but on the other hand: Mammy and Dick Roche!
And Conor Lenihan, Sean Haughey, Peter Power and Cyprian Brady and please God Mary Hanifan and Sweary Mary
Edit: Very disappointing first count for Paul Sommerville in Dublin South East, not looking good.
Cuffe: rolled.
Curran: caked.
Gormley: smugged.
Patricia McKenna was right. I'd say the Greens will be back but FF will never ever get 40% of the vote again.
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2011, 07:36:56 PM
Patricia McKenna was right. I'd say the Greens will be back but FF will never ever get 40% of the vote again.
It's not long ago the same thing was said about our new main party less than 10 years ago. They will be back in coalation with in the next 20 years. How long is it since Mickey Noonan let a woman die as minister of Health? For the record i am not FF.
The economy won't have recovered by 2021. The scale of the mess FF left behind means they
are never going to return to the days of 40%.
There is no ideological need for FF anyway. It was only ever a machine for personal advancement.
And didn't it fail in style ?
I think it's like the end of the Liberals in England after WW1.
Adams tops the poll in Louth.
Did I see that M O'Rourke finished at the bottom and was eliminated after the first count?
(prob not the first count)
Martin Mansergh also gone.
The silver linings on the coming dark clouds of Fine Gael.
any word on cavan monaghan i havent seen anything yet
Cavan Monaghan is a complicated relationship, but the count should be out soon.
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 08:30:33 PM
any word on cavan monaghan i havent seen anything yet
I think there is something about recounting spoilt votes... First count still not completed
In Cavan they would call them cheating voters.
Caoimhghín Ó'Caoláin through on the first count with 11,913 FP Votes ;D
what about young mcgurk at least i think thats his name a lad with glasses running for the first time
All the count details are here for Cavan Monaghan
http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/cavan-monaghan.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/cavan-monaghan.html)
Looks a hard task for SF to get a 2nd seat in the 5 seater
3 FG bunched at 3,4 and 5 waiting for 3,800 transfers from the 4th FG
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2011, 09:15:05 PM
All the count details are here for Cavan Monaghan
http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/cavan-monaghan.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/cavan-monaghan.html)
Looks a hard task for SF to get a 2nd seat in the 5 seater
3 FG bunched at 3,4 and 5 waiting for 3,800 transfers from the 4th FG
It look doubtful now, I though O Caolain would do a little better and Smith would do worse. I think it is a real slight on the people of Cavan that they gave 9000 votes to the most useless f**ker the county ever produced just because he is FF. Very sad imo.
yep looks like 1 sinn fein, mcguirk is the lads name i thought he'd do better he should join the shinners his point of view was practically sinn fein policy.
Mary Coughlan eliminated.
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 09:36:39 PM
Mary Coughlan eliminated.
best news today :D :D :D :D 8)
Couple of seats I had down for SF look like being near losses so i will revise down my seats for SF from 16 to 12 as yet again they are unlikely to get transfers
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 26, 2011, 11:35:21 AM
Larry O'Toole polling in joint second ;D
Nally - do you think he will hang in there for a seat.
ahh jeezus enda has run out of scripted materail digging a hole for himself on rte ::)
Kenny on rte now,
referring to keeping the people of Ireland informed on whats going on
'Paddy will want to know and I'll be informing him every month'
;D
what a spoofer
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
ahh jeezus enda has run out of scripted materail digging a hole for himself on rte ::)
You watching a different RTE programme to me! Think he is doing just Fine ;)
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
ahh jeezus enda has run out of scripted materail digging a hole for himself on rte ::)
Reading between the lines, he is hinting the bank situation is worse than we have been told. He is not as articulate or skilled at dodging questions as some of the others, but it is clear there is bad news coming.
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 09:59:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
ahh jeezus enda has run out of scripted materail digging a hole for himself on rte ::)
Reading between the lines, he is hinting the bank situation is worse than we have been told. He is not as articulate or skilled at dodging questions as some of the others, but it is clear there is bad news coming.
+1
Earlier, Kenny was interviewed in Mayo after the result there.
When he referred to the 5 point plan, he barely concealed a snigger.
The snigger could have said a lot of things.
I heard, 'that was a cute carefully contrived stroke we pulled off there, we kept it simple for you morons, you were never going to go online and read that piece of crap. All you wanted hear was that there was a plan and you could count it with the fingers on one hand'
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2011, 10:07:26 PM
Earlier, Kenny was interviewed in Mayo after the result there.
When he referred to the 5 point plan he barely concealed a snigger.
The snigger could have said a lot of things.
I heard, 'that was a cute carefully contrived stroke we pulled off there, we kept it simple for you morons, you were never going to go online and read that piece of crap. All you wanted hear was that there was a plan and you could count it with the fingers on one hand'
Pre-election manifestos are for single party Government.
We won't have one so now whoever will be in Government will have to agree a Programme for Government. Given that it will have to be painful and no party will want to screw the voters who just put them in, it will be very difficult negotiations.
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 09:36:39 PM
Mary Coughlan eliminated.
Expected, but still amazing to see it happen! :) That seat's been in the Coughlan family for 30 years, and given her profile, level of advancement and still relatively young age, I doubt if there was a more secure seat around until the last year or two (although my objectivity may be somewhat compromised coming from the same area). The woman was an institution in south Donegal! Fair play to Thomas Pringle... he's been hanging around long enough and looks like he's going to finally make it to the Dail!
Quote from: Main Street on February 26, 2011, 10:07:26 PM
Earlier, Kenny was interviewed in Mayo after the result there.
When he referred to the 5 point plan, he barely concealed a snigger.
The snigger could have said a lot of things.
I heard, 'that was a cute carefully contrived stroke we pulled off there, we kept it simple for you morons, you were never going to go online and read that piece of crap. All you wanted hear was that there was a plan and you could count it with the fingers on one hand'
and now i'm giving you all the finger.. :D
A charitable tweet helping Mary understand what just happened:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/248745643.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1298759494&Signature=c%2Fd4eC0HAZ9TLnM1hhQms5%2Ba2GY%3D)
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 10:18:03 PM
A charitable tweet helping Mary understand what just happened:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/248745643.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1298759494&Signature=c%2Fd4eC0HAZ9TLnM1hhQms5%2Ba2GY%3D)
She really does not look shocked enough in that Tweet :D
Quote from: sammymaguire on February 26, 2011, 10:22:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 10:18:03 PM
A charitable tweet helping Mary understand what just happened:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/248745643.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1298759494&Signature=c%2Fd4eC0HAZ9TLnM1hhQms5%2Ba2GY%3D)
She really does not look shocked enough in that Tweet :D
mary you should shut up, you have to call me minister, alright minister mary you should shut up :D
why did tomas pringle leave sinn fein
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 10:33:34 PM
why did tomas pringle leave sinn fein
SF only deal with Tayto!
will he vote with the shinners now in the dail
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 10:38:04 PM
will he vote with the shinners now in the dail
Depends if he agrees with the new government or a opposition party on a particular issue, he will not be under a party whip.
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 10:33:34 PM
why did tomas pringle leave sinn fein
Cease-fire issue.
Once he popped, he couldn't stop.
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 10:41:58 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 10:33:34 PM
why did tomas pringle leave sinn fein
Cease-fire issue.
Once he popped, he couldn't stop.
:D ha ha I was thinking the same, but after winding hardstation up last night I thought I'd hold my fire :D
What were the buzzwords of Election 2011
Heavy lifting
Engaging
any more?
Meltdown
five point plan...
five point plan...
... ::)
Sounds like Shane Ross has been on the buzzer, he lists about 10 elected or likely Independent's that could deal with Fine Gael. (Their price not a local issues, instead national reform).
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 10:55:07 PM
five point plan...
five point plan...
... ::)
Pringle "I'm an Independent", will deal with other Indo's in a technical group. Maybe he will be backing Fine Gael (old old Sein Féin, lol).
Luke "Ming" Flanagan elected.
2 FG more than likely to carry in on his transfers.
HAUGHEY GONE ;D
Dublin South Fine Gael get 3 elected @ the exact same time. ;D
Hugely passionate speech on Shannonside by Ming.
Taking a 50% paycut on his TDs pay. He is gonna be a real thorn in the side of Naughton and Feighan
forgive me but whats the 'ming' thing where did that come from
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 26, 2011, 11:14:48 PM
HAUGHEY GONE ;D
As this is GAA board I think it is important to acknowledge the great work Haughey did for Clontarf GAC.He was sadled with his da's reputation but I'm not sure if Richard Bruton will give the same support to the GAA.
A turning point in Irish politics overall.
He looked like Ming the merciless back when he first ran
in the nineties. Delighted for him. Fitting he got elected
on a day when Frank Fahy will be getting the boot.
In a radio station back in the day Fahy told him a guy like you
will never have a career in politics.. ;D
Quote from: Dubh driocht on February 26, 2011, 11:40:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 26, 2011, 11:14:48 PM
HAUGHEY GONE ;D
As this is GAA board I think it is important to acknowledge the great work Haughey did for Clontarf GAC.He was sadled with his da's reputation but I'm not sure if Richard Bruton will give the same support to the GAA.
A turning point in Irish politics overall.
Is that why people should have voted for him?
1st shinner in cork. com'on the rebels :D
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 11:51:48 PM
1st shinner in cork. com'on the rebels :D
You do know the original context of rebel and Cork, was pro-English Monarch rebels ;)
New Cork North Central T.D. just elected with his supporters holding up a picture of what looked like Michael Collins. ;D
What time do these counts go on to?
Surely counting for over 12 hours your accuracy would start to slip.
yeah i saw that it deffo looked like michael collins ::) rebels they are no matter who calls it, in the peoples republic of cork
Quote from: Orangemac on February 27, 2011, 12:01:01 AM
What time do these counts go on to?
Surely counting for over 12 hours your accuracy would start to slip.
Some of them will go to tomorrow, they are all being watched by tallymen/womem from all the parties and Indp. reps. Any (and its close) they have to do it again.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 26, 2011, 11:57:07 PM
New Cork North Central T.D. just elected with his supporters holding up a picture of what looked like Michael Collins. ;D
Looked like Terence MacSwiney to me.
"On the one road" :D
Quote from: lawnseed on February 27, 2011, 12:02:47 AM
yeah i saw that it deffo looked like michael collins ::) rebels they are no matter who calls it, in the peoples republic of cork
Are ye thinking of rejoining the Republican movement (Fine Gael) ;)
Quote from: Rossie11 on February 26, 2011, 11:42:03 PM
He looked like Ming the merciless back when he first ran
in the nineties. Delighted for him. Fitting he got elected
on a day when Frank Fahy will be getting the boot.
In a radio station back in the day Fahy told him a guy like you
will never have a career in politics.. ;D
[/quote
so hes good because he looks like ming the merciless fair play to him i think he's got a bit of a biker thing going on 8)
so now that it's over, will FG still get into bed with Labour? There has to be a movement starting within the party to try and go it alone. We'll see just how different they are from Fianna Fail over the next few weeks. There's no way FF would sacrifice half their cabinet positions for 5/6 votes.
They'll hardly have to give up the finance portfolio anyway.
All in all i'm pretty disappointed that FG will have so many seats, I didn't want them getting over 70, mid 60's I was hoping. We'll see how the next 5 yrs go, but I am not expecting much tbh. Go on Enda, shock me.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 27, 2011, 12:18:10 AM
We'll see how the next 5 yrs go, but I am not expecting much tbh.
Is that because Fianna Fáil set the bar so low and what could you expect after 14 years and the guts of the last 80 under Fianna Fáil
Good debate on TV3 now.
Grandad Blueshirt really should keep himself off the airwaves and out of the limelight.
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2011, 12:26:48 AM
Good debate on TV3 now.
Grandad Blueshirt really should keep himself off the airwaves and out of the limelight.
disagree, I like him. If I am that spritely and intellectually nimble when I hit the mid eighties (unlikely enough anyway), I'll be a happy man.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 12:25:07 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 27, 2011, 12:18:10 AM
We'll see how the next 5 yrs go, but I am not expecting much tbh.
Is that because Fianna Fáil set the bar so low and what could you expect after 14 years and the guts of the last 80 under Fianna Fáil
No, it's because I don't think there'll be that much of a difference in approach. Their pre-election programme for govt had very little definite policy plans anyway.
In 2007 they barely mentioned the events that were en-route, no, they talked about the extra guards they'd recruit to deal with the massive crime problems that were highlighted daily in the Herald, the extra spending on education, on welfare etc. They supported the guarantee, they're broadly in favour of the bailout deal, they do want to sell off whatever few assets of value we have left.
Look, I realise their hands are tied to a large extent with regards to most things, so I'm wiling to lower my expectations. If they can make a decent stab at dismantling the current health service then I'll be satisfied with them. I don't think they'll be able to though, certainly not in 5 yrs.
It'll at least be a relief to see the Irish people make scape goats of another crowd of poor politicians anyway, that's something we learned from thatcher, it's always someone elses fault. The vitriol directed at banks for daring to loan people money they wanted and at politicians for daring to do what the electorate wanted them to do was getting tiresome.
Sandra McLellan takes a seat in Cork East for Sinn Féin.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 26, 2011, 11:12:47 PM
Luke "Ming" Flanagan elected.
2 FG more than likely to carry in on his transfers.
Ming not only elected but the first man that got in our region, He's gone into the pub now met him on the way out with a big hand shake & well done!
Quote from: ross4life on February 27, 2011, 01:55:45 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 26, 2011, 11:12:47 PM
Luke "Ming" Flanagan elected.
2 FG more than likely to carry in on his transfers.
Ming not only elected but the first man that got in our region, He's gone into the pub now met him on the way out with a big hand shake & well done!
Ming's first day in the Dail!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0sXXNrx-4
RTE have completely ignored the constituency of Louth as soon as the man from the North got home, "I haven't looked at it at all" John Bowman!!
Anyway, Kirk was the only gtd FF seat in the country, Adams was sadly the poll topper, but Fergus O Dowd was home in first count and will be a minister, Nash for Labour will comfortably take the third seat and Fitzer is odds on to take the final seat. The count is now adjourned until 10.30 in the morning when they will distribute Breatnach (FF) which will give Carroll (FF) the very last desperate chance of getting in ahead of Fitzer for FG.
Quote from: Louth Exile on February 27, 2011, 02:59:24 AM
Quote from: ross4life on February 27, 2011, 01:55:45 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 26, 2011, 11:12:47 PM
Luke "Ming" Flanagan elected.
2 FG more than likely to carry in on his transfers.
Ming not only elected but the first man that got in our region, He's gone into the pub now met him on the way out with a big hand shake & well done!
Ming's first day in the Dail!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0sXXNrx-4
RTE have completely ignored the constituency of Louth as soon as the man from the North got home, "I haven't looked at it at all" John Bowman!!
Anyway, Kirk was the only gtd FF seat in the country, Adams was sadly the poll topper, but Fergus O Dowd was home in first count and will be a minister, Nash for Labour will comfortably take the third seat and Fitzer is odds on to take the final seat. The count is now adjourned until 10.30 in the morning when they will distribute Breatnach (FF) which will give Carroll (FF) the very last desperate chance of getting in ahead of Fitzer for FG.
"sadly" Adams tops the poll but good old "fitzer" will prob get in. You did hear fitzers radio interview where he sounded like an out and out village idiot right? I know which of the 2 i'd prefer to represent me.
Quote from: muppet on February 26, 2011, 09:59:39 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 26, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
ahh jeezus enda has run out of scripted materail digging a hole for himself on rte ::)
Reading between the lines, he is hinting the bank situation is worse than we have been told. He is not as articulate or skilled at dodging questions as some of the others, but it is clear there is bad news coming.
I think so too, Muppet. Thre is going to be an awful lot of sewage exposed to the light in the next few weeks.
I'm fairly proud of our country today. Despite fears to the contrary, Fianna Fail were punished, and punished hard. As it should be. They serve us, not the other way around. You could tell from the looks of some of the Fianna Failers that they were shocked at the scale of the swing away from them. That is democracy lads, and I hope Enda, Eamonn and Gerry learn that as well.
I also am encouraged in the performance of Sinn Fein. Not because I agree with many of their policies, but they are a real alternative, and that's a good avenue for letting politicians know when you are fed up. SF will only end up with 10-14 seats, but they've been in practically every contest they've entered, and polled reasonably well in all cases. They are still not attracting transfers, but if that happens in the next election, they could well be over 20. Gone (for now at least) are the days when SF candidates were eliminated after the first count with votes in the low hundreds.
Finally, FF have a real job on to reinvent themselves, but just as FG did so after 2002, I expect FF to bounce back. They are a centre right party who tried to be everything to everyone. If they go back to basics, and reinvent themselves locally, they *will* benefit from the hard times ahead. People will be quick to forget that FF caused a lot of the problems, and will blame the current keyholders i.e. FG and Labour. I think it will take two elections, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FF back in power within 10 years, and maybe even in coalition with a more centre oriented Sinn Fein.
Does this mean that Sinn Fein are the biggest party on this island, purely on votes from the last elections both sides of the boarder?
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 27, 2011, 10:24:34 AM
I'm fairly proud of our country today. Despite fears to the contrary, Fianna Fail were punished, and punished hard.
The problem is I don't know why people voted FG other than to punish FF.
Each party should have published exactly what it was going to do re the main issues at present with timescales for everything. Let the people vote on that, then at least they'd have a real mandate to do the things that must be done.
As is, FG imo were deliberately vague on everything, talking about forming review groups on most key issues and far away solutions in terms of public sector redundancies and healthcare, whilst talking about how they'd heard promising noises from the EU over over interest rate renegotiations (hint, reduce the capital and the interest rate doesn't matter as much). I know manifestos, particularly opposition manifestos are normally vague, but it seems to me that FG put themselves out there as 'anyone but FF', to me it's discouraging that their approach worked to such an extent.
Quote from: Big Puff on February 27, 2011, 10:41:29 AM
Does this mean that Sinn Fein are the biggest party on this island, purely on votes from the last elections both sides of the boarder?
Not even close to it. FG and Labour would have far more. They may be bigger than FF now although there wouldnt be much in it.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 27, 2011, 12:32:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2011, 12:26:48 AM
Good debate on TV3 now.
Grandad Blueshirt really should keep himself off the airwaves and out of the limelight.
disagree, I like him. If I am that spritely and intellectually nimble when I hit the mid eighties (unlikely enough anyway), I'll be a happy man.
Liking him or admiring Fitzgerald's very admirable capacity at his current age, is completely besides the point.
He is somehow presented as a high brow, respected intellectual on political/economic/constitutional issues of government policy.
He is just not able to debate his opinions, with the likes of Gurdjieff and the others on a panel which has a lively debate going.
He is a distraction in the debate.
In Garret's world, the banks and economic interests are more important than the people and he hums and dithered his way to justifying that, when the question was directly put to him last night about why should the citizens be stripped in order to protect them. His dithering means either he is an academic fraud or a person who is just too old to debate the core constitutional issues of the rights of citizens and sovereignity.
just wondering how are ff going to be effective opposition when fg and lab are implementing ff policies it can only be sinnfein
Lord Jazes it appears Peter Fitz is about to be elected in Louth (Michael).
Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but can you have a coalition opposition, like Government? As lawnseed says, how can FF be an effective opposition if FG/Lab are implementing FF policies? Surely the only option is for a Sinn Fein opposition, with Independent TDs.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 26, 2011, 09:52:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 26, 2011, 11:35:21 AM
Larry O'Toole polling in joint second ;D
Nally - do you think he will hang in there for a seat.
Sorry Myles, only seeing your post now. Very disappointing for Larry but he wasn't a million miles off the last seat. The same could be said for O'Broin in Dublin Mid West too (not to mention a few very near misses in three or four other constituencies across the 26 counties) so at least it's some more solid foundations to build on.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 27, 2011, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 26, 2011, 09:52:32 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 26, 2011, 11:35:21 AM
Larry O'Toole polling in joint second ;D
Nally - do you think he will hang in there for a seat.
Sorry Myles, only seeing your post now. Very disappointing for Larry but he wasn't a million miles off the last seat. The same could be said for O'Broin in Dublin Mid West too (not to mention a few very near misses in three or four other constituencies across the 26 counties) so at least it's some more solid foundations to build on.
Indeed, SF will get 14/15 seats this time but the seed is sown for a quite a few more next time out which is probably very pleasing for the party.
Quote from: Big Puff on February 27, 2011, 10:41:29 AM
Does this mean that Sinn Fein are the biggest party on this island, purely on votes from the last elections both sides of the boarder?
No it is still much smaller than Fine Gael, probably quite a bit smaller than Labour. Remember the electorate up North would only be a region in the Republic.
Maybe I'm just too cynical but does this really make someone fit for government?
Quote1526 Labour's Joan Burton says she believes that women have experience for government, because they are the ones who bear the brunt of heartache when their children emigrate.
From RTEs text tracker
Quote from: Boycey on February 27, 2011, 05:23:08 PM
Maybe I'm just too cynical but does this really make someone fit for government?
Quote1526 Labour's Joan Burton says she believes that women have experience for government, because they are the ones who bear the brunt of heartache when their children emigrate.
From RTEs text tracker
Hope to God she doesn't get a ministry.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 05:24:52 PM
Quote from: Boycey on February 27, 2011, 05:23:08 PM
Maybe I'm just too cynical but does this really make someone fit for government?
Quote1526 Labour's Joan Burton says she believes that women have experience for government, because they are the ones who bear the brunt of heartache when their children emigrate.
From RTEs text tracker
Hope to God she doesn't get a ministry.
If Fine Gael go down the Labour route which I would fully expect they will, she would be one of their nominated ministers surely? Personally can't abide her, always speaks with a sneer in her voice.
Quote from: Boycey on February 27, 2011, 05:23:08 PM
Maybe I'm just too cynical but does this really make someone fit for government?
Quote1526 Labour's Joan Burton says she believes that women have experience for government, because they are the ones who bear the brunt of heartache when their children emigrate.
From RTEs text tracker
To me, that's just stupid. Sure, there is an inequality between the number of male and female TDs, but to say the females are more qualified because they're female, stupid.
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 27, 2011, 12:47:01 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 12:25:07 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on February 27, 2011, 12:18:10 AM
We'll see how the next 5 yrs go, but I am not expecting much tbh.
Is that because Fianna Fáil set the bar so low and what could you expect after 14 years and the guts of the last 80 under Fianna Fáil
No, it's because I don't think there'll be that much of a difference in approach. Their pre-election programme for govt had very little definite policy plans anyway.
In 2007 they barely mentioned the events that were en-route, no, they talked about the extra guards they'd recruit to deal with the massive crime problems that were highlighted daily in the Herald, the extra spending on education, on welfare etc. They supported the guarantee, they're broadly in favour of the bailout deal, they do want to sell off whatever few assets of value we have left.
Look, I realise their hands are tied to a large extent with regards to most things, so I'm wiling to lower my expectations. If they can make a decent stab at dismantling the current health service then I'll be satisfied with them. I don't think they'll be able to though, certainly not in 5 yrs.
It'll at least be a relief to see the Irish people make scape goats of another crowd of poor politicians anyway, that's something we learned from thatcher, it's always someone elses fault. The vitriol directed at banks for daring to loan people money they wanted and at politicians for daring to do what the electorate wanted them to do was getting tiresome.
I don't expect anything from FG either. It is mostly the same as FF, ie teachers and solicitors with a few business people.
I think Inda will be shafted within 2 years. He is going to be out of his depth.
It is going to be about the next election.
It's always about the next election.
Quote from: Hardy on February 27, 2011, 07:16:00 PM
It's always about the next election.
You're only as good as your last recount.
If the Greens hadn't gone into Government in 2007 they would probably have 10 seats now.
RTE say
So far, 24 constituencies have no Fianna Fáil TDs, including those in Waterford, Tipperary, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Meath and Kerry.
Nice to see Mick Wallace doing so well in Wexford. And Ming as well .
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2011, 07:32:26 PM
If the Greens hadn't gone into Government in 2007 they would probably have 10 seats now.
RTE say
So far, 24 constituencies have no Fianna Fáil TDs, including those in Waterford, Tipperary, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Meath and Kerry.
Nice to see Mick Wallace doing so well in Wexford. And Ming as well .
Very anti-GAA as far as I understand.
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 18, 2011, 10:18:48 AM
Posted this already in the louth thread but will people actually vote for this man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmZuKpLC1cs
And Fitzer makes it!
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 08:09:43 PM
Very anti-GAA as far as I understand.
I've had a few lunches with Wallace and inevitably a few heated discussions on GAA & soccer. I wouldn't say he is anti-GAA but he's extremely passionate about soccer. His view is that local soccer is ignored by the media and state bodies when it comes to grants and the like, especially for underage stuff. To be honest I have some sympathy for him as there is arguably a similar attitude to GAA north of the border. As for his attitude to GAA sports, he's just not all that interested - reckons there's far more skill, strategy and tactics involved in soccer.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2011, 07:32:26 PM
If the Greens hadn't gone into Government in 2007 they would probably have 10 seats now.
RTE say
So far, 24 constituencies have no Fianna Fáil TDs, including those in Waterford, Tipperary, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Meath and Kerry.
Nice to see Mick Wallace doing so well in Wexford. And Ming as well .
Very anti-GAA as far as I understand.
It hardly matters. Biffo went to Croke Park so many times yet it was his government which presided over the emigration of thousands of GAA players. Mick Wallace talks a lot of sense about local government and the role of the Dail. I think he and Ming are very exciting politicians.
I saw Olivia Mitchell on RTe saying Dubling South had elected 4 centre right TDs between 3 fg and one independent. Mayo had 5/5.
But Mayo wouldn't be centre right would it ? If Ros could elect Ming as one out of 3 why couldn't Mayo have at least one left winger ?
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2011, 09:17:55 PM
I saw Olivia Mitchell on RTe saying Dubling South had elected 4 centre right TDs between 3 fg and one independent. Mayo had 5/5.
But Mayo wouldn't be centre right would it ? If Ros could elect Ming as one out of 3 why couldn't Mayo have at least one left winger ?
Did Enda play on the Left Wing for Islandeady :D
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2011, 09:10:48 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2011, 07:32:26 PM
If the Greens hadn't gone into Government in 2007 they would probably have 10 seats now.
RTE say
So far, 24 constituencies have no Fianna Fáil TDs, including those in Waterford, Tipperary, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Meath and Kerry.
Nice to see Mick Wallace doing so well in Wexford. And Ming as well .
Very anti-GAA as far as I understand.
It hardly matters. Biffo went to Croke Park so many times yet it was his government which presided over the emigration of thousands of GAA players. Mick Wallace talks a lot of sense about local government and the role of the Dail. I think he and Ming are very exciting politicians.
Wallace isn't really my cup of tea, now Flanagan on the other hand impressed me the last time I heard him on the radio.
Wallace could very easily end up like George Lee.
Quote from: Ulick on February 27, 2011, 09:40:32 PM
Wallace could very easily end up like George Lee.
Or Liam Carroll.
Quote from: muppet on February 27, 2011, 09:41:18 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 27, 2011, 09:40:32 PM
Wallace could very easily end up like George Lee.
Or Liam Carroll.
Sure didn't he already end up a bit like him.
Quote from: Ulick on February 27, 2011, 09:40:32 PM
Wallace could very easily end up like George Lee.
I thought George Lee got ignored by the towering intellectuals in FG and left in a huff.
This was interesting
"Speaking just ahead of the first count result, Joe Higgins said the Fine Gael-Labour coalition would be as hated in three years time as the outgoing Government, as they would continue largely the same policies as Fianna Fáil and the Green Party.
I think FG will make a shite of it as well. The cuts haven't really even started yet.
Red flag flying proudly over Blackrock tonight as we welcome Richard Boyd Barrett TD. I think I'll piss him off first thing tomorrow morning and contact him looking for a medical card for my arthritic aunt!
Well done Sinn Fein anyway.
The future's some colour.
Quote from: ONeill on February 27, 2011, 10:50:03 PM
Well done Sinn Fein anyway.
The future's some colour.
Blue ;)
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 27, 2011, 10:34:30 PM
Red flag flying proudly over Blackrock tonight as we welcome Richard Boyd Barrett TD. I think I'll piss him off first thing tomorrow morning and contact him looking for a medical card for my arthritic aunt!
If he doesn't sort ya out, demand he give you the some money from the money they say they donate to people and organisations they support.
I hope the Gardai are watching RTE coverage now. Its showing Duffy from Mayo News being interviewed on Market Square in Castlebar and two taxies turned right towards Dunnes coming from the Newport Road direction, bloody taxi drivers went up a one way road.
I could see it all the way over in Britain >:(
Quote from: Ulick on February 27, 2011, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 08:09:43 PM
Very anti-GAA as far as I understand.
I've had a few lunches with Wallace and inevitably a few heated discussions on GAA & soccer. I wouldn't say he is anti-GAA but he's extremely passionate about soccer. His view is that local soccer is ignored by the media and state bodies when it comes to grants and the like, especially for underage stuff. To be honest I have some sympathy for him as there is arguably a similar attitude to GAA north of the border. As for his attitude to GAA sports, he's just not all that interested - reckons there's far more skill, strategy and tactics involved in soccer.
There are plenty of similarly minded people all over Ireland whose passion is soccer and fair play to them. Unfortunatlely some of them have two major blind spots - (1) that the work they do is predicated on the professional ethos which dilutes the concept of genuine community involvement and (2) regardless of the merits of their own sport, they can't help their antipathy to the GAA. Don't know anything about Wallace, but he looks like he colud be an intimidating fiull back in Roscommon junior league!
The Bull down in Kerry "Let the irony not be lost on ye, on the day of my defeat, that I stand here in the sportshall I helped to build"
What a w**ker.
Quote from: Ulick on February 27, 2011, 09:40:32 PM
Wallace could very easily end up like George Lee.
He's well on the way, 'cos he looks like Peggy Lee.
Gene Kerrigan: Five-Point Enda so right, and so wrong
The media has gone along with the fiction that Ireland has no right wing, writes Gene Kerrigan
Sunday February 27 2011
WE'VE just seen an election campaign that was virtually politics-free. It was all about polls and constituency profiles, the 'Gilmore Gale' and rehearsed soundbites, phoney 'plans' and meaningless slogans like 'Get Ireland back to work'. Yet, we are drowning as a result of politics. Bad politics. Politics that contrives to remain invisible behind the shadow boxing.
After the debacles of the past few years, how could the political establishment -- government and opposition -- have the nerve to continue in public life? The same question might be asked of their media cheerleaders and academic groupies. A train driver who did to a train what they did to the country would be forced to take up a new line of business.
The answer, of course, lies in the unswerving ability of the political right to erase uncomfortable facts from their records. They made mush of the economy; they then put the banks before the citizens; they sabotaged the real economy; they scapegoated the poorest. Each step was cheered by the groupies, and in turn each step made things worse.
After an election campaign that consisted largely of manufactured disagreements, we now dump Mr Nasal Congestion and welcome Five-Point Enda -- and the policies that are killing hope have new wind in their sails.
Erasing uncomfortable facts is done gradually. Have you noticed, for instance, how the Progressive Democrats are being airbrushed from history? Last week, Mary Hanafin boasted of Fianna Fail's ability to work within coalitions -- and she instanced their (relatively brief) partnerships with Labour and the Greens. Not a mention of the PDs, with whom she shared a cosy and disastrous coalition for a dozen years.
Last week the Irish Independent published a helpful supplement that listed the vote breakdown over 30 years -- and the PDs weren't featured. In tiny italic font at the bottom of the chart, we learned that the PDs are now anonymously lumped in under "Others".
Recently in this newspaper, ex-PD leader Michael McDowell called for the formation of a new party, once the election is out of the way. And Mickey Mac never once reminded us of -- oh, it's on the tip of my tongue, what's the name of the party he dumped unceremoniously when he lost his seat on election night in 2007? From 1997 onwards, there was an unmistakable surge to the right in Irish politics, culminating in the blast of right-wing policies that inflated the credit bubble from around 2000 and led directly to the collapse of the economy. It was a huge right-wing development grounded in a neo-liberal philosophy fashionable elsewhere. It will have consequences for generations. Instead of recognising this, the media went along with the fiction that Ireland has a left wing but no right wing.
The PDs came, wrecked the joint, then disappeared into the past, with their bloated pensions. Their right-wing extremism was eagerly soaked up within FF and FG. Rather than admit to applying, with disastrous results, a coherent set of right-wing principles -- the establishment now glosses things over. They use phrases like "mistakes were made" and, "we got some things wrong". The pretence is that they were merely a bunch of happy-go-lucky folks who just did what they thought was right at the time.
No matter how extremist their right-wing policies are, these parties are portrayed as "the centre". Anything outside is alien, disruptive, loony. Meaningful debate is sidelined, this is "the only game in town".
Here's a question that could have been asked of Mr Nasal Congestion, Brian Bailout or Five-Point Enda at any time over the past couple of years: "It was doctrinaire right-wing policies that collapsed the economy -- what makes you believe that your current right-wing solutions won't make things worse?"
Not a chance that question would be asked. Even though, at every stage of this crisis, the off-the-peg right-wing policies prescribed by the two Brians, in consultation with their EU masters, have indeed made things measurably worse.
The media can routinely -- and accurately -- refer to the "left-wing sensibilities" of people like Joe Higgins and Richard Boyd Barrett. Nothing wrong with that. But broadcasters and writers would be admonished if they routinely referred to FF or FG's "right-wing sensibilities".
This is not an accident.
Joe Higgins is in the Socialist Party. The name is on the tin. A whole lot of people are in the United Left Alliance -- you know where they stand. Ditto the Workers' Party. The Greens or even Labour give a hint of an ideological complexion. But the right-wing policies of McCreevy, Ahern, Kenny and Varadkar come clothed in party names drawn from a semi-mystical Gaelic past.
When Michael McDowell and his fellow rightists formed a party in the Eighties, they might have called themselves the Free Market Extremists. Instead, they were the Progressive Democrats. (Everyone wants progress, everyone needs democracy.)
Notions of populist nationalism -- beloved of old FF -- were swept away by the apparent success of the Celtic Tiger period. A generation of politicians eagerly adopted half-baked and wholly-swallowed right-wing platitudes -- chop the tax base, privatise, deregulate, unleash the rich. They sucked relentlessly on these ideological soothers, regardless of circumstance or outcome.
Listen to Simon Coveney, agog at the prospect of getting into government, aching to try out his right-wing bromides on the transport system. He sounds like a child who has spent too long playing at DIY, with rubber hammers and plastic saws. Now, God help us, he's about to be let loose with an array of power tools.
His earnestness is reminiscent of that of Mary Harney, full of good intentions and right-wing claptrap, as she set forth to consolidate the two-tier health service. Fine Gael is awash with this new breed -- about to engage in another grotesque experiment, putting into practice the set of assumptions and prescriptions they picked up at business school lectures and the dinner parties of wealthy patrons.
And the unwritten ban on putting those assumptions and proscriptions into context allows them all to pretend that there's no connection between the policies that caused the debacle, and the policies that made it worse over the past two years. And certainly no connection to the policies to come from Five-Point Enda and Weak Breeze Gilmore.
The left didn't help. When the media demanded, "But, where will we get the money", the left tried to answer in those terms, as though we're faced with a knotty little accounting problem. There is no answer to that question, as long as we're unwilling to confront the realities of wealth and inequality, of dead banks and the relationship between this little bit of an economy and the brutal right-wing policies dictated by panicky EU mandarins.
We stumbled uncertainly out of the Age of Ahern, gasped in disbelief through every development of the Cowen Chapter. Now, we nervously enter the Enda Era. The faces change, but the dread-laden establishment's faith in those right-wing assumptions and proscriptions remains as strong as ever, even as the debacle deepens.
And those assumptions and proscriptions, largely unremarked and unacknowledged, concealing their extremism in centrist language, drastically limit our options. Oh, no, giving billions to banks isn't extremist! We just want to boost freedom, and enterprise and nice stuff like that!
Cue Kevin Spacey, at the end of the movie The Usual Suspects: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2011, 10:06:47 PM
I thought George Lee got ignored by the towering intellectuals in FG and left in a huff.
Well I was thinking more along the lines of when he realises a lone independent can't actually achieve very much he might just throw he head up. Wallace is the type of boy always on the go getting things done. He won't take well to the red tape and bureaucracy of Parliamentary politics. He also has fairly significant business interests in Ireland and Italy outside of the building/development work he's known so it'll be hard for him to find time for the Dáil.
(http://www.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/john-1024x640.jpg)
"I hope that the irony will not be lost upon you that I stand here, on my evening of defeat, in a hall – this magnificent sports complex – which I helped to build."
John "The Bull" O'Donoghue, 26 February 2011.
Sums it all up really. >:(
Sounds complicated in Wicklow.
They will have to shoot Dick Roche to loosen his grip on the last straws
It is great to see the Bull being shafted by the electorate. He was a total b*stard as a senior minister and a neoliberal to the end.
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2011, 12:14:03 PM
Sounds complicated in Wicklow.
They will have to shoot Dick Roche to loosen his grip on the last straws
He's some fecking muppet. Neither he nor his FF running mate Pat Fitzgerald has a chance of picking up a seat, but the tosspot just can't let go of the reins. He's called for a total recount.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 28, 2011, 03:41:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2011, 12:14:03 PM
Sounds complicated in Wicklow.
They will have to shoot Dick Roche to loosen his grip on the last straws
He's some fecking muppet. Neither he nor his FF running mate Pat Fitzgerald has a chance of picking up a seat, but the tosspot just can't let go of the reins. He's called for a total recount.
And his running mate Fitzgerald has said as much and that there is no point or need for a recount
Quote"I hope that the irony will not be lost upon you that I stand here, on my evening of defeat, in a hall – this magnificent sports complex – which I helped to build."
John "The Bull" O'Donoghue, 26 February 2011.
Sums it all up really.
Spot on Shamrock Shore. Thought the arrogant p***k was going to unveil a plaque to himself before departing.
QuoteAnd his running mate Fitzgerald has said as much and that there is no point or need for a recount
Roche said on the radio that if he rose above Fitzgerald then some of the other candidates to be then eliminated would be from Bray and North Wicklow and that he would pick up transfers from these. He implied that if it was the other way around that Fitzgerald wouldn't get much from these candidates. Clutching at straws perhaps, but these things do matter in Irish elections.
Anyone know what's happening in Laois Offaly? I see a quote on Twitter from Brian Stanley saying "we're not happy with the way we were treated here last night". Has he lost out?
Quote from: Leo on February 27, 2011, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 27, 2011, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 27, 2011, 08:09:43 PM
Very anti-GAA as far as I understand.
I've had a few lunches with Wallace and inevitably a few heated discussions on GAA & soccer. I wouldn't say he is anti-GAA but he's extremely passionate about soccer. His view is that local soccer is ignored by the media and state bodies when it comes to grants and the like, especially for underage stuff. To be honest I have some sympathy for him as there is arguably a similar attitude to GAA north of the border. As for his attitude to GAA sports, he's just not all that interested - reckons there's far more skill, strategy and tactics involved in soccer.
There are plenty of similarly minded people all over Ireland whose passion is soccer and fair play to them. Unfortunatlely some of them have two major blind spots - (1) that the work they do is predicated on the professional ethos which dilutes the concept of genuine community involvement and (2) regardless of the merits of their own sport, they can't help their antipathy to the GAA. Don't know anything about Wallace, but he looks like he colud be an intimidating fiull back in Roscommon junior league!
Jaysus Leo, it looks like you might have a few blind spots yourself there. I've worked quite a bit in the recent past with both a soccer club and a GAA club and I would have to say that, if anything, the soccer club was more community-focussed (and the community would agree). I have a feeling that we could go blue in the face recounting anecdotes of examples, but I have a feeling that (no more than GAA clubs) there are two types of soccer clubs - those that have ambitions of producing professional players and those that don't (the latter are more common, and are probably more community-serving). As for the antipathy to the GAA, my experience is that it is probably a two-way street.
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 05:03:15 PM
Anyone know what's happening in Laois Offaly? I see a quote on Twitter from Brian Stanley saying "we're not happy with the way we were treated here last night". Has he lost out?
Mary Lou's now down there in the count centre with him apparently, the reinforcements have arrived!
Do they start again from scratch with the counting of votes and proceed from first count onwards?
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2011, 05:17:29 PM
Do they start again from scratch with the counting of votes and proceed from first count onwards?
No just the last count Main Street. Too late to check earlier ones.
Can anyone explain to me why Mick Wallace is so popular? I hadn't heard of him until Saturday but understand that he's a property developer with €40m of debts in his company. Does that not make him part of the problem?
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Mick Wallace is so popular? I hadn't heard of him until Saturday but understand that he's a property developer with €40m of debts in his company. Does that not make him part of the problem?
It is more populist, I'm a local lad, burn down the banks, the Wexford Youths are great. I heard him on Vincent Browne and he sounded clueless and kept talking about the Wexford Youths. A Wexford Jackie Healy Flynn.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Mick Wallace is so popular? I hadn't heard of him until Saturday but understand that he's a property developer with €40m of debts in his company. Does that not make him part of the problem?
It certainly does.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Mick Wallace is so popular? I hadn't heard of him until Saturday but understand that he's a property developer with €40m of debts in his company. Does that not make him part of the problem?
As far as I know, his loans were/are performing. The only reason people know how much he owes is that he put that information out there himself. The distinction I can see from him the other other developers is that Wallace was building quality properties and selling/leasing at affordable prices. He didn't so much as throw building up and sell but regenerated working class areas in which he keep a presence e.g. the "Italian quarter" & "Blooms quarter" he built in Dublin - he kept ownership of shops and bars to run himself in those areas. In Wexford, he's regarded as honest and as straight as they come. He put his money were is mouth is by building the Wexford Youths complex at Ferrycarrig at a personal cost of a few million yoyos. I've yet to meet anyone down there yet who has a bad word to say about him. In Dublin, the lefties love him being outspoken about everything from bin-charges to the war in Iraq (see photo below on the front of one of his sites). He has even been north of the border hosting workshops for housing associations to help them get projects of the ground.
(http://www.themetropolitancomplex.com/php/image.php?id=one_banner)
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Mick Wallace is so popular? I hadn't heard of him until Saturday but understand that he's a property developer with €40m of debts in his company. Does that not make him part of the problem?
As far as I know, his loans were/are performing. The only reason people know how much he owes is that he put that information out there himself. The distinction I can see from him the other other developers is that Wallace was building quality properties and selling/leasing at affordable prices. He didn't so much as throw building up and sell but regenerated working class areas in which he keep a presence e.g. the "Italian quarter" & "Blooms quarter" he built in Dublin - he kept ownership of shops and bars to run himself in those areas. In Wexford, he's regarded as honest and as straight as they come. He put his money were is mouth is by building the Wexford Youths complex at Ferrycarrig at a personal cost of a few million yoyos. I've yet to meet anyone down there yet who has a bad word to say about him. In Dublin, the lefties love him being outspoken about everything from bin-charges to the war in Iraq (see photo below on the front of one of his sites). He has even been north of the border hosting workshops for housing associations to help them get projects of the ground.
(http://www.themetropolitancomplex.com/php/image.php?id=one_banner)
Lend me €40 Million there boss and I'll be a great lad.
A message from Mick
"To be clear, as I have previously stated, Wallace Construction LTD is in debt to the tune of €40 million approximately, against the companies assets held by the banks. None of these loans are in NAMA, and I am not bankrupt, and nor do I expect to become bankrupt, it is also important to note that Wallace Construction and Mick Wallace are separate entities."
Any word from Laois Offaly yet? The count seems to be farcical up there. There's returning officers and electoral registrars descending on the place from all over the midlands. Madness.
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 07:22:54 PM
A message from Mick
"To be clear, as I have previously stated, Wallace Construction LTD is in debt to the tune of €40 million approximately, against the companies assets held by the banks. None of these loans are in NAMA, and I am not bankrupt, and nor do I expect to become bankrupt, it is also important to note that Wallace Construction and Mick Wallace are separate entities."
Geddawayouttadat.
Other separate entities:
Seanie and Anglo
Sean Quinn and Quinn
FF and conscience
This Irish generation and solvency
Actually we should try that?
Message to IMF/EU
Ireland and the Ireland you gave the money to are separate entities.
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Mick Wallace is so popular? I hadn't heard of him until Saturday but understand that he's a property developer with €40m of debts in his company. Does that not make him part of the problem?
As far as I know, his loans were/are performing. The only reason people know how much he owes is that he put that information out there himself. The distinction I can see from him the other other developers is that Wallace was building quality properties and selling/leasing at affordable prices. He didn't so much as throw building up and sell but regenerated working class areas in which he keep a presence e.g. the "Italian quarter" & "Blooms quarter" he built in Dublin - he kept ownership of shops and bars to run himself in those areas. In Wexford, he's regarded as honest and as straight as they come. He put his money were is mouth is by building the Wexford Youths complex at Ferrycarrig at a personal cost of a few million yoyos. I've yet to meet anyone down there yet who has a bad word to say about him. In Dublin, the lefties love him being outspoken about everything from bin-charges to the war in Iraq (see photo below on the front of one of his sites). He has even been north of the border hosting workshops for housing associations to help them get projects of the ground.
Are you saying that he wasn't getting market value for his properties? Is that why he's €40m in the red?
Muppet, to be honest I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about Wallace. From what I can see he's been honest in all his business dealings and has a track record going back over decades of criticizing the cosy setup existing between FF&FG and the banks&developers. He's never been part of the Galway tent and has done a lot of good regeneration work in run-down areas. Does someone like this not deserve the benefit of the doubt?
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 07:59:23 PM
Muppet, to be honest I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about Wallace. From what I can see he's been honest in all his business dealings and has a track record going back over decades of criticizing the cosy setup existing between FF&FG and the banks&developers. He's never been part of the Galway tent and has done a lot of good regeneration work in run-down areas. Does someone like this not deserve the benefit of the doubt?
If he pays back the €40 Million he owes ours banks then he deserves the benefit of anything going.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
Are you saying that he wasn't getting market value for his properties? Is that why he's €40m in the red?
Maguire you asked why Wallace was so popular and I answered given my own limited knowledge of the man and his dealings. I have no particular interest in getting into a prolonged debate about it. If you are interested in following up on the what he sold his properties for, I'm sure there are other more authoritative sources of information.
Quote from: muppet on February 28, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
If he pays back the €40 Million he owes ours banks then he deserves the benefit of anything going.
Has someone suggested he's not paying back the loans?
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
Are you saying that he wasn't getting market value for his properties? Is that why he's €40m in the red?
Maguire you asked why Wallace was so popular and I answered given my own limited knowledge of the man and his dealings. I have no particular interest in getting into a prolonged debate about it. If you are interested in following up on the what he sold his properties for, I'm sure there are other more authoritative sources of information.
You made the claim - I was only asking the question.
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 08:04:18 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 28, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
If he pays back the €40 Million he owes ours banks then he deserves the benefit of anything going.
Has someone suggested he's not paying back the loans?
No, his own statement references Wallace Construction Ltd's debt and appears to suggest what the collateral is.
Mr. Iodine tablet has officially been re-eliminated in Wicklow.
Quote from: muppet on February 28, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 07:59:23 PM
Muppet, to be honest I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about Wallace. From what I can see he's been honest in all his business dealings and has a track record going back over decades of criticizing the cosy setup existing between FF&FG and the banks&developers. He's never been part of the Galway tent and has done a lot of good regeneration work in run-down areas. Does someone like this not deserve the benefit of the doubt?
If he pays back the €40 Million he owes ours banks then he deserves the benefit of anything going.
Do you have a mortgage Muppet ? Should we wait til to you pay it off to give you the right to post?
Or when MWS , whichever is sooner.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 28, 2011, 08:19:32 PM
Mr. Iodine tablet has officially been re-eliminated in Wicklow.
He is not ruling out another challenge just yet.
That's a great idea. Can we have recounts in Donegal South West, Kerry South and Dublin South East, just so that we can see Coughlan, O'Donoghue and Gormley lose again?
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 28, 2011, 08:19:32 PM
Mr. Iodine tablet has officially been re-eliminated in Wicklow.
If he hadn't been made to look like such an idiot by Lenihan on RTE at the time of the bailout would he have had a better chance?
It is incredible that there are no more than 5 FF ministers left in the Dail.
Is the Shannonside interview with Ming anywhere on the net?
Ellis now on The Frontline. If he had been on before the election SF would have lost votes, he is no Pearse Doherty. Proposing to build to a load of houses to employ builders is not the way forward.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2011, 10:40:23 PM
Ellis now on The Frontline. If he had been on before the election SF would have lost votes, he is no Pearse Doherty. Proposing to build to a load of houses to employ builders is not the way forward.
WTF?! Has nobody told him about the 600+ ghost estates?
He didn't come across very well. Probably a good co councillor but not the man SF should be putting in the tv imo.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 28, 2011, 10:55:05 PM
He didn't come across very well. Probably a good co councillor but not the man SF should be putting in the tv imo.
Probably why we're only seeing/hearing him now.
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2011, 10:23:20 PM
Is the Shannonside interview with Ming anywhere on the net?
Nope haven't came across it yet, though he has a short interview at the end of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Int0CGNvo3E
In fairness to him I think he was trying to suggest the government hurt tradesmen to finish ghost estates for social housing. He made a balls of putting it across and then the plank cut him off.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on February 28, 2011, 11:02:38 PM
In fairness to him I think he was trying to suggest the government hurt tradesmen to finish ghost estates for social housing. He made a balls of putting it across and then the plank cut him off.
;)
Dick Roche saying he might call for another recount in Wicklow.
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 11:27:08 PM
Dick Roche saying he might call for another recount in Wicklow.
Oh ffs!
Brian Stanley has been elected.
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2011, 08:25:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 28, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 07:59:23 PM
Muppet, to be honest I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about Wallace. From what I can see he's been honest in all his business dealings and has a track record going back over decades of criticizing the cosy setup existing between FF&FG and the banks&developers. He's never been part of the Galway tent and has done a lot of good regeneration work in run-down areas. Does someone like this not deserve the benefit of the doubt?
If he pays back the €40 Million he owes ours banks then he deserves the benefit of anything going.
Do you have a mortgage Muppet ? Should we wait til to you pay it off to give you the right to post?
Or when MWS , whichever is sooner.
I do and I have and have not missed a repayment.
If he has not missed a repayment there is no issue.
I'll leave the last word to the lads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKpyVGVcL2U&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKpyVGVcL2U&feature=player_embedded)
Fianna Fail have given up on the website.
http://www.fiannafail.ie/
the Tony Killeen blog posts are interesting. nobody listened.
Quote from: Ulick on February 28, 2011, 07:11:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 28, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Mick Wallace is so popular? I hadn't heard of him until Saturday but understand that he's a property developer with €40m of debts in his company. Does that not make him part of the problem?
As far as I know, his loans were/are performing. The only reason people know how much he owes is that he put that information out there himself. The distinction I can see from him the other other developers is that Wallace was building quality properties and selling/leasing at affordable prices. He didn't so much as throw building up and sell but regenerated working class areas in which he keep a presence e.g. the "Italian quarter" & "Blooms quarter" he built in Dublin - he kept ownership of shops and bars to run himself in those areas. In Wexford, he's regarded as honest and as straight as they come. He put his money were is mouth is by building the Wexford Youths complex at Ferrycarrig at a personal cost of a few million yoyos. I've yet to meet anyone down there yet who has a bad word to say about him. In Dublin, the lefties love him being outspoken about everything from bin-charges to the war in Iraq (see photo below on the front of one of his sites). He has even been north of the border hosting workshops for housing associations to help them get projects of the ground.
(http://www.themetropolitancomplex.com/php/image.php?id=one_banner)
So much for saint Mick
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0301/1224291080489.html?via=mr
It seems that the reason his loans were not in nama was not that they were performing, it was that they were with foreign banks. Also as far as putting his money where is mouth is by building the Wexford Youths complex, it is the subbies that are owed €1m that paid for that. And all the time Mick was taking good care of himself by taking more than €5k per week wages.
As a matter of interest, can he be a TD if he is bankrupt
Quote from: Cde on March 01, 2011, 04:04:29 PM
So much for saint Mick
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0301/1224291080489.html?via=mr
It seems that the reason his loans were not in nama was not that they were performing, it was that they were with foreign banks. Also as far as putting his money where is mouth is by building the Wexford Youths complex, it is the subbies that are owed €1m that paid for that.
Where does it state that the subbies are owed for their work on the Wexford Youth's complex?
QuoteAnd all the time Mick was taking good care of himself by taking more than €5k per week wages.
Why do you say "all the time"? read the article more clearly, it states in 2008 he took a salary of €290k
He has stated elsewhere that he takes a salary of €40k p/a these days
QuoteAs a matter of interest, can he be a TD if he is bankrupt
If a td is bankrupt,
yes I mean no - a TD is is disbarred afaia., Wallace is not bankrupt.
Make an effort to be more accurate with presenting the information contained in a simple newspaper article before you jump in with both feet.
Quote from: Main Street on March 01, 2011, 05:15:22 PM
Quote from: Cde on March 01, 2011, 04:04:29 PM
So much for saint Mick
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0301/1224291080489.html?via=mr
It seems that the reason his loans were not in nama was not that they were performing, it was that they were with foreign banks. Also as far as putting his money where is mouth is by building the Wexford Youths complex, it is the subbies that are owed €1m that paid for that.
Where does it state that the subbies are owed for their work on the Wexford Youth's complex?
QuoteAnd all the time Mick was taking good care of himself by taking more than €5k per week wages.
Why do you say "all the time"? read the article more clearly, it states in 2008 he took a salary of €290k
He has stated elsewhere that he takes a salary of €40k p/a these days
QuoteAs a matter of interest, can he be a TD if he is bankrupt
If a td is bankrupt, yes, Wallace is not bankrupt.
Make an effort to be more accurate with presenting the information contained in a simple newspaper article before you jump in with both feet.
I didn't say they were owed the money for the Wexford youths complex only that he used the subbies money to build it.
Were does it say he took 40k, the last accounts filed showed he took 295k. We can only go by the facts.
I also didn't say Wallace was bankrupt, only asked the question if he was bankrupt could he be a TD. Thanks for at least for answering that.
now I hope I made that a little clearer so you could understand it
Quote from: Cde on March 01, 2011, 05:32:56 PM
I didn't say they were owed the money for the Wexford youths complex only that he used the subbies money to build it.
Still bullshit
QuoteWere does it say he took 40k, the last accounts filed showed he took 295k. We can only go by the facts.
If you were interested in the facts you would have noticed that the 2008 returns show a directors pay of €290k p/a
You have no source for 2009 and 2010
I wrote clearly that Wallace has gone on record elsewhere as saying he takes €40k p/a
.
Quotenow I hope I made that a little clearer so you could understand it
Trying to be a condescending p***k?
Quote from: Main Street on March 01, 2011, 07:09:35 PM
Quote from: Cde on March 01, 2011, 05:32:56 PM
I didn't say they were owed the money for the Wexford youths complex only that he used the subbies money to build it.
Still bullshit
QuoteWere does it say he took 40k, the last accounts filed showed he took 295k. We can only go by the facts.
If you were interested in the facts you would have noticed that the 2008 returns show a directors pay of €290k p/a
You have no source for 2009 and 2010
I wrote clearly that Wallace has gone on record elsewhere as saying he takes €40k p/a
.
Quotenow I hope I made that a little clearer so you could understand it
Trying to be a condescending p***k?
is directors pay not normally a sum of pay to directors? As there is more than one director who knows what the breakdown is?
I'm not sure what to make of Wallace tbh, he seems a decent enough skin overall, but he does tend to wax lyrical about how great life in Italy is and how they do things etc. That might be true of some things, but in general Italy isn't a role model that many countries should be looking to.
It's a pity the official thread is only offical. Is that something to do with the Biffo?
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184776_204095932934446_100000021232429_873419_7059771_n.jpg)
Quote from: Main Street on March 01, 2011, 07:09:35 PM
Quote from: Cde on March 01, 2011, 05:32:56 PM
I didn't say they were owed the money for the Wexford youths complex only that he used the subbies money to build it.
Still bullshit
Tell that to the subbies
QuoteWere does it say he took 40k, the last accounts filed showed he took 295k. We can only go by the facts.
QuoteIf you were interested in the facts you would have noticed that the 2008 returns show a directors pay of €290k p/a
You have no source for 2009 and 2010
I wrote clearly that Wallace has gone on record elsewhere as saying he takes €40k p/a
all well then if that what he says, it must be true so
.
Quotenow I hope I made that a little clearer so you could understand it
QuoteTrying to be a condescending p***k?
no just trying to keep up with you
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/wallace-i-face-ruin-2656616.html
By Donal O'Donovan and Michael Brennan
Wednesday May 25 2011
INDEPENDENT TD Mick Wallace last night admitted he faces financial ruin -- even the loss of his Dail seat -- if banks chase him for personal guarantees.
He warned that the banks had nothing to gain by going after him for the debts run up by his construction company.
But ACC Bank appointed a receiver to take control of some of the most valuable assets owned by his firm M&J Wallace Ltd. The company owes banks €42m in all, according to the most recent accounts filed with the Companies Office. Nearly half of that is owed to ACC.
Now ACC has seized some of his most high-profile development properties in an attempt to recover some of the money it is owed.
Mr Wallace admitted last night that he had given personal guarantees to banks. And he defended the record of his company.
But sources said that even after ACC sells the properties, Mr Wallace will still be in debt. And that means the bank could go after him for the balance of the debt because of his personal guarantees.
Company accounts show that Mick Wallace and fellow director Sasha Wallace shared €289,605 in directors' pay in 2008, even though M&J Wallace suffered a loss of €2.7m that year. Pay for the two directors had nearly doubled in 2008, from €184,141 in 2007.
The 2008 accounts are the latest filed by the company with the Companies Office.
Mr Wallace was in the Dail chamber yesterday for Leaders' Questions, where Taoiseach Enda Kenny was quizzed about the pension levy used by his Government to fund the 'Jobs Initiative'.
Before he went to ground and declined to answer any more questions he said: "I've tried to build well -- we were a very successful company for a long time. We weren't bad, we weren't doing crazy things. We've made money every year for 20 years, employed a lot of people, paid our taxes. But the financial crisis arrived, completely undermined the value of our assets and we're no longer in a great place."
DISQUALIFIED
Under the 1992 Electoral Act, a TD has to be disqualified from serving in the Dail if he or she is declared bankrupt.
ACC appointed Declan Taite of Dublin accountants FGS as receiver to take control of some of M&J Wallace's most high-profile assets. ACC has a charge over the assets and the receiver is obliged to notify the public within seven days of being appointed.
Under the receivership Mr Taite's job is to manage and ultimately sell the assets on behalf of the bank.
Last night Mr Wallace said that would be futile as he has no wealth outside his mortgaged assets. "If a bank tries to make me bankrupt it has more to do with "badness" than economics," he told RTE.
Up to now the colourful, TD had never said whether or not he gave personal guarantees to lenders for his company's debt, but company accounts show that his business has been dependent on forbearance from bank lenders for the past three years.
Mr Wallace said previously that since 2008 the company had been collecting rents and passing the cash into the bank..
The company also owes large sums to Bank of Scotland (Ireland), Ulster Bank and AIB.
Earlier this year Mr Wallace said the company's property portfolio would be worth around €20m if it was sold off in the current climate, down from €80m at the height of the boom.
ACC's haul of Wallace properties includes much of the Italian Quarter in Dublin's city centre.
The portfolio also includes the Ferrycarrig Sports Complex in his native Wexford, home to Wallace's Wexford Youths soccer team.
- Donal O'Donovan and Michael Brennan
Some classic quotes there from Mick!! If a bank tries to make me bankrupt it has more to do with "badness" than economics Im sure his subbies left short have the same feelings
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 09:22:35 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 16, 2011, 08:56:38 PM
gormley says he was there, WTF :o unbelievable claim i cant believe Browne didn't pull him up.
yes Myles just watched it again on catch up the blanket guarantee WAS David MC Williams idea, and was referred to in the negotiations as the 'mcwilliams option' crazy stuff
couldn't remember just where mcwilliams name came up re the blanket blah so here it is john gormley categorically states on Vincent Browne that mcwilliams was at the negotiations
also mainstreet page 64 good link to mc williams