While passing through Shaftsbury Square yesterday afternoon I glanced over at the aforementioned establishment and noted an array of flags including the Union Flag and Bastardised Ulster Flag. As the aforementioned are not flown at any other time during the year from this building, I concluded that indeed this establishment (whose members claim with vehemence that they are non sectarian) can only be flying them at this time to celebrate the 12th of July and other unionist/loyalist sectarian celebrations (Apprentice Boys etc). :(
you must be wrong Tony...
sure the same 'one' fella cant be banned from ni soccer supporters and be in coleraine all at the same time ! !
:D
obv the other 20 supporters were not in or about the 'clubhouse' these few days so the 'one' lad could put up those flegs !
;)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 12:18:25 PM
While passing through Shaftsbury Square yesterday afternoon I glanced over at the aforementioned establishment and noted an array of flags including the Union Flag and Bastardised Ulster Flag. As the aforementioned are not flown at any other time during the year from this building, I concluded that indeed this establishment (whose members claim with vehemence that they are non sectarian) can only be flying them at this time to celebrate the 12th of July and other unionist/loyalist sectarian celebrations (Apprentice Boys etc). :(
As has been pointed out on this Board before, on threads to which you have contributed, that club always sticks flags out* on the days before and after a game.
http://ifatickets.first-sports.com/
Why don't you stick to entering GAA Colouring-In Competitions etc... ::)
* - On its own premises, btw, not on eg nearby lampposts.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 10, 2009, 12:20:12 PM
you must be wrong Tony...
You got that bit right (though the rest was your usual shite)... ::)
Oh right, so they only use sectarian divisive flags on the days preceding and after games? Well thats alright then. I suppose all the members will be getting OBEs next year for reconciliatory services to the community. >:(
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 02:56:54 PM
Oh right, so they only use sectarian divisive flags on the days preceding and after games? Well thats alright then.
No, they're an NI football supporters' club, so they put flags up, including the NI flag, on the front of the club for a few days around an NI international football game. You know, just like eg GAA fans put flags out around the time of their big games (though not always exclusively on their own premises).
P.S. Can we take it that you are no longer claiming that these flags are out for the Twelfth and Apprentice Boys etc? Progress of sorts, I suppose... ::)
Er, they shouldn't be out at any time if the organisation is claiming to promote football for all and is anxiously trying to move on from a shameful sectarian past.
By the way, which flag do the monocultural North of Ireland supporters regards as their own, the Union Flag or the bastardised Ulster flag?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 03:30:26 PM
Er, they shouldn't be out at any time if the organisation is claiming to promote football for all and is anxiously trying to move on from a shameful sectarian past.
So your beloved GAA cannot claim to be promoting "GAA For All" so long as it is a requirement in its Rulebook that the Tricolour be flown at every GAA game, either?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 03:30:26 PM
By the way, which flag do the monocultural North of Ireland supporters regards as their own, the Union Flag or the bastardised Ulster flag?
I can't speak for every other NI fan, but although I've never carried either an NI Flag nor a Union Flag to WP, I personally am happy with the IFA's chosen match day arrangements, which are to fly the NI flag, the UEFA or FIFA flag (as appropriate) and the flag of our opponents.
As for the South Belfast NISC, I'm not a member, nor is it my regular pre- or post-match watering hole, but I'm not aware of their ever having flown any "sectarian" flags etc, nor indeed any flag which could be said to be objectionable by any reasonable or tolerant individual.
Then again, from your insane ramblings on this thread and others (eg imagining that flags were being flown for the Twelfth or ABOD etc), it is clear that you are neither "reasonable" nor "tolerant".
Anyhow, I hope Shaftesbury Square wasn't
too far out of your way in your quest to be "offended"... ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 10, 2009, 04:32:43 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 03:30:26 PM
Er, they shouldn't be out at any time if the organisation is claiming to promote football for all and is anxiously trying to move on from a shameful sectarian past.
So your beloved GAA cannot claim to be promoting "GAA For All" so long as it is a requirement in its Rulebook that the Tricolour be flown at every GAA game, either?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 03:30:26 PM
By the way, which flag do the monocultural North of Ireland supporters regards as their own, the Union Flag or the bastardised Ulster flag?
I can't speak for every other NI fan, but although I've never carried either an NI Flag nor a Union Flag to WP, I personally am happy with the IFA's chosen match day arrangements, which are to fly the NI flag, the UEFA or FIFA flag (as appropriate) and the flag of our opponents.
As for the South Belfast NISC, I'm not a member, nor is it my regular pre- or post-match watering hole, but I'm not aware of their ever having flown any "sectarian" flags etc, nor indeed any flag which could be said to be objectionable by any reasonable or tolerant individual.
Then again, from your insane ramblings on this thread and others (eg imagining that flags were being flown for the Twelfth or ABOD etc), it is clear that you are neither "reasonable" nor "tolerant".
Anyhow, I hope Shaftesbury Square wasn't too far out of your way in your quest to be "offended"... ::)
When all else fails go with the aul fallback that is whataboutery. Evil, is it or is it not wrong for supporters clubs of your beloved north to fly flags that would obviously alienate a large portion of the community?
Quote from: stew on August 10, 2009, 05:04:01 PM
When all else fails go with the aul fallback that is whataboutery. Evil, is it or is it not wrong for supporters clubs of your beloved north to fly flags that would obviously alienate a large portion of the community?
When all else fails, go with the aul fallback of crying "Whataboutery", even when you clearly don't even understand the term (see my post in the "OWC Hooligan thread).
For the record, I have never claimed that it is "wrong" for the GAA's Official Rulebook mandating every club throughout Ireland to fly the Tricolour (even though I think such actions likely to deter Unionists from getting involved in Gaelic games).
But that is rather different from an individual NI Supporters's Club choosing to fly the NI team flag outside its premises in respect of a forthcoming NI game.
And in any case, even if you consider that such flag-flying by the South Belfast club is similarly unhelpful to that of the GAA and the Tricolour etc (and I note you ignore the fact that I personally have never waved such flags at WP myself), my actual point was to expose the hypocrisy of
Fearon, who claims "outrage" when NI clubs fly an NI flag, but isn't in the least bothered when eg a GAA club flies the Tricolour.
The GAA has never hidden it's stance on it's promotion of a United Ireland and Irish culture, In contrast to the IFA who talk a good game about for example FFA but at the same time alienate 50% of the population in the six counties.
I understand the term whataboutery full well.
The fact that tony cant bear to use the term "Northern Ireland Supporters Club" highlights the fact that he simply dislikes the concept of such an organisation.
FFA is not about completely getting rid of the NI team - its about enabling anyone who wants to be involved to do so. If someone disagrees with the concept of NI in its entirety then there is little that can be done to make them support us. I dont believe it makes someone a bigot to not support us, nor do i think that supporting NI, and the use of the NI flag makes anyone bigoted.
Quote from: stew on August 10, 2009, 08:04:41 PM
The GAA has never hidden it's stance on it's promotion of a United Ireland and Irish culture, In contrast to the IFA who talk a good game about for example FFA but at the same time alienate 50% of the population in the six counties.
I understand the term whataboutery full well.
I thought it was supposed to be a non political sporting body?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 10, 2009, 04:32:43 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 03:30:26 PM
Er, they shouldn't be out at any time if the organisation is claiming to promote football for all and is anxiously trying to move on from a shameful sectarian past.
So your beloved GAA cannot claim to be promoting "GAA For All" so long as it is a requirement in its Rulebook that the Tricolour be flown at every GAA game, either?
...doesnt seem to stop the americans , English, Scots, Welsh, Aussies or Bretons(french) from playing Gaelic games...
thats hardly excluding anyone - most def 'GAA for all' - unlike the devisive fleg posting and coin throwing ni soccer neanderthals that pretend to 'want' soccer for all !
looks like Tony wasnt wrong after all !!
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 10, 2009, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 10, 2009, 12:20:12 PM
you must be wrong Tony...
You got that bit right (though the rest was your usual shite)... ::)
..looks like you have lost the 'debate' earlier than usual !
Quote from: T Fearon on August 10, 2009, 12:18:25 PM
While passing through Shaftsbury Square yesterday afternoon I glanced over at the aforementioned establishment and noted an array of flags including the Union Flag and Bastardised Ulster Flag. As the aforementioned are not flown at any other time during the year from this building, I concluded that indeed this establishment (whose members claim with vehemence that they are non sectarian) can only be flying them at this time to celebrate the 12th of July and other unionist/loyalist sectarian celebrations (Apprentice Boys etc). :(
Your not even making an effort now Tony. Sure you attempted this rant a year and 10 days ago.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=8817.0
QuoteSure you attempted this rant a year and 10 days ago.
Pity, on the rare occasion you get the spelling right, you feck up on the maths.
The simple truth is that this building, which houses members who would laughingly claim to be non sectarian, currently resembles an Orange Hall/loyalist club.
Football for all, don't make me laugh. More like hardline unionists once again using a so called international side to assert their political allegiances.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 11:03:10 AM
More like hardline unionists once again using a so called international side to assert their political allegiances.
Which is exactly what you are doing.
You were asked a question. Do you object to the GAA flying the tricolour at games?
I'm passive to the GAA flying the tricolour at games but I will explain to you the key and crucial difference
GAA: Distinctly Irish sporting cultural organisation whose activities are aimed specifically at those of an Irish cultural background but where all can join without fear or favour without suffering sectarianism, abuse due to one's political beliefs.
Soccer: A worldwide sport, arguably the most popular on the planet that has been hijacked by hardline unionists in the six counties and an association made up almost entirely of hardline unionists, where the sport is used (uniquely) to assert political allegiances and whihc has a long and well documented history of sectarianism (from abuse to death threats) against those catholics who choose to be part of the charade.
Now do you see the difference?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 01:14:12 PM
I'm passive to the GAA flying the tricolour at games but I will explain to you the key and crucial difference
GAA: Distinctly Irish sporting cultural organisation whose activities are aimed specifically at those of an Irish cultural background but where all can join without fear or favour without suffering sectarianism, abuse due to one's political beliefs.
Soccer: A worldwide sport, arguably the most popular on the planet that has been hijacked by hardline unionists in the six counties and an association made up almost entirely of hardline unionists, where the sport is used (uniquely) to assert political allegiances and whihc has a long and well documented history of sectarianism (from abuse to death threats) against those catholics who choose to be part of the charade.
Now do you see the difference?
No. I see you arguing that your flag at sporting events is ok, their one isn't.
You see the GAA as a soft cultural nationalist organisation. They see it as aggressive Irish nationalism masquerading as sport.
You see the IFA as huns in suits keeping the croppies in line, they see it as representing the majority of the occupants of the 6 counties.
Its whataboutery pure and simple. No-one is shocked or surprised that the 6 county fans will fly a 6 county flag. Spare us the faux outrage and the tedium of these repetitive rants.
You don't like the IFA, we get it. But there is nothing they can do that will make you support the side short of merging with the FAI, and even then I'm sure you will find something to complain about.
Can anyone explain to me why the South Belfast Emerald NISC were flying the Faugh na Ballagh UDR/RIR flag at the start of the Summer along with the Butchers apron and the defaced St Georges cross (Englands flag btw - how come they never used the St Patricks saltire?), funnily they weren't due to play anyone for a good while?
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 11, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
Can anyone explain to me why the South Belfast Emerald NISC were flying the Faugh na Ballagh UDR/RIR flag at the start of the Summer along with the Butchers apron and the defaced St Georges cross, funnily they weren't due to play anyone for a good while?
Because they are loyalists?
This isn't difficult....
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 01:14:12 PM
I'm passive to the GAA flying the tricolour at games but I will explain to you the key and crucial difference
GAA: Distinctly Irish sporting cultural organisation whose activities are aimed specifically at those of an Irish cultural background but where all can join without fear or favour without suffering sectarianism, abuse due to one's political beliefs.
Soccer: A worldwide sport, arguably the most popular on the planet that has been hijacked by hardline unionists in the six counties and an association made up almost entirely of hardline unionists, where the sport is used (uniquely) to assert political allegiances and whihc has a long and well documented history of sectarianism (from abuse to death threats) against those catholics who choose to be part of the charade.
Now do you see the difference?
No. I see you arguing that your flag at sporting events is ok, their one isn't.
You see the GAA as a soft cultural nationalist organisation. They see it as aggressive Irish nationalism masquerading as sport.
You see the IFA as huns in suits keeping the croppies in line, they see it as representing the majority of the occupants of the 6 counties.
Its whataboutery pure and simple. No-one is shocked or surprised that the 6 county fans will fly a 6 county flag. Spare us the faux outrage and the tedium of these repetitive rants.
You don't like the IFA, we get it. But there is nothing they can do that will make you support the side short of merging with the FAI, and even then I'm sure you will find something to complain about.
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 11, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
Can anyone explain to me why the South Belfast Emerald NISC were flying the Faugh na Ballagh UDR/RIR flag at the start of the Summer along with the Butchers apron and the defaced St Georges cross, funnily they weren't due to play anyone for a good while?
Because they are loyalists?
This isn't difficult....
...you are prob right
but thats what the ni soccer fans always argue against - that their supporters clubs are not political and have no political afiliations etc..
soccer for all (except on sundays) ;)
btw - I'd prefer the ifa to the fai - which shows you how bad the fai are ! (freeloading embezzlers!)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 11:03:10 AM
The simple truth is that this building, which houses members who would laughingly claim to be non sectarian, currently resembles an Orange Hall/loyalist club.
Football for all, don't make me laugh. More like hardline unionists once again using a so called international side to assert their political allegiances.
Why did you feel the need to re-raise this issue ,nearly a year to the day you first raised it ? Was it not explained clearly enough the first time?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 11, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
Can anyone explain to me why the South Belfast Emerald NISC were flying the Faugh na Ballagh UDR/RIR flag at the start of the Summer along with the Butchers apron and the defaced St Georges cross, funnily they weren't due to play anyone for a good while?
Because they are loyalists?
This isn't difficult....
I thought it was a soccer supporters club? Silly me. ::)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:49:23 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 11, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
Can anyone explain to me why the South Belfast Emerald NISC were flying the Faugh na Ballagh UDR/RIR flag at the start of the Summer along with the Butchers apron and the defaced St Georges cross, funnily they weren't due to play anyone for a good while?
Because they are loyalists?
This isn't difficult....
...you are prob right
but thats what the ni soccer fans always argue against - that their supporters clubs are not political and have no political afiliations etc..
soccer for all (except on sundays) ;)
btw - I'd prefer the ifa to the fai - which shows you how bad the fai are ! (freeloading embezzlers!)
Pot's and Kettles here ! The GAA is hardly whiter than white now is it
Why does anyone really care?
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 01:52:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:49:23 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 11, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
Can anyone explain to me why the South Belfast Emerald NISC were flying the Faugh na Ballagh UDR/RIR flag at the start of the Summer along with the Butchers apron and the defaced St Georges cross, funnily they weren't due to play anyone for a good while?
Because they are loyalists?
This isn't difficult....
...you are prob right
but thats what the ni soccer fans always argue against - that their supporters clubs are not political and have no political afiliations etc..
soccer for all (except on sundays) ;)
btw - I'd prefer the ifa to the fai - which shows you how bad the fai are ! (freeloading embezzlers!)
Pot's and Kettles here ! The GAA is hardly whiter than white now is it
please explain how !
where do the GAA and 'supporters clubs' (I'd say county supporters clubs are about the only thing to equate to the ni soccer supporters clubs)
have political afiliations etc
or are you talking about GAA officials and embezzlement ?
anyhow over to you, I cant wait for this !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 01:52:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:49:23 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 01:43:17 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 11, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
Can anyone explain to me why the South Belfast Emerald NISC were flying the Faugh na Ballagh UDR/RIR flag at the start of the Summer along with the Butchers apron and the defaced St Georges cross, funnily they weren't due to play anyone for a good while?
Because they are loyalists?
This isn't difficult....
...you are prob right
but thats what the ni soccer fans always argue against - that their supporters clubs are not political and have no political afiliations etc..
soccer for all (except on sundays) ;)
btw - I'd prefer the ifa to the fai - which shows you how bad the fai are ! (freeloading embezzlers!)
Pot's and Kettles here ! The GAA is hardly whiter than white now is it
please explain how !
where do the GAA and 'supporters clubs' (I'd say county supporters clubs are about the only thing to equate to the ni soccer supporters clubs)
have political afiliations etc
or are you talking about GAA officials and embezzlement ?
anyhow over to you, I cant wait for this !
Flag ,Anthem ,Club names, Rallys on GAA land and "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a
32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
Yeah the GAA is non political all right
::)
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:46:59 PM
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?
Thats besides the point. Like it or not it is the flag of the 6 counties and its football team. Their fans are entitled to it if they want.
But the real issue hear is the permanent sense of rage Fearon is with the idea that there are two identities in the 6
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:55:34 PM
please explain how !
where do the GAA and 'supporters clubs' (I'd say county supporters clubs are about the only thing to equate to the ni soccer supporters clubs)
have political afiliations etc
or are you talking about GAA officials and embezzlement ?
anyhow over to you, I cant wait for this !
Perhaps you could begin with an example of FAI 'embezzlement'. Its quite a serious allegation to make against an organisation that publically releases audited accounts.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 01:58:14 PM
Flag ,Anthem ,Club names, Rallys on GAA land and "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
Yeah the GAA is non political all right
::)
jeez you have been listening to a lot of idiotic propaganda.
e.g. in the middle of county Cork or Carlow if the above list were observed:
Flag - whats political about that
Anthem - whats political about that
Club names - what is political about that
Rallys on GAA land - was this a GAA organised operation or do you think that macra na feirme are controlled by the GAA
as for
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
ok. so there should be an Israeli flag outside it this week. Has anyone seen this ?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:02:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:46:59 PM
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?
Thats besides the point. Like it or not it is the flag of the 6 counties and its football team. Their fans are entitled to it if they want.
But the real issue hear is the permanent sense of rage Fearon is with the idea that there are two identities in the 6
you have not answered the 'question'. Or questions even.
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 02:09:26 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
ok. so there should be an Israeli flag outside it this week. Has anyone seen this ?
It wouldn't surprise me if there was - there's no shortage of Israeli flags around loyalist areas of the city!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
e.g. in the middle of county Cork or Carlow if the above list were observed:
Flag - whats political about that
Anthem - whats political about that
Club names - what is political about that
Rallys on GAA land - was this a GAA organised operation or do you think that macra na feirme are controlled by the GAA
Grow up Lynchboy.
There is nothing more political than flags or anthems. There is a double standard at play here and well you know it
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:03:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:55:34 PM
please explain how !
where do the GAA and 'supporters clubs' (I'd say county supporters clubs are about the only thing to equate to the ni soccer supporters clubs)
have political afiliations etc
or are you talking about GAA officials and embezzlement ?
anyhow over to you, I cant wait for this !
Perhaps you could begin with an example of FAI 'embezzlement'. Its quite a serious allegation to make against an organisation that publically releases audited accounts.
eg taking of cash on turnstiles - this can not be traced , can post whatever financial retuns they want but they are not guaranteed to be accurate (or truthful).
USA 94 WC - largest delegation of officials and their wives despite being one of the smallest countries represented at the wc.
where has all the money gone that was generated from 188 onwards, the money being gathered to build eircom park etc etc
now they can hardly refurbish traveller park in tallaght (well actually they couldnt could they, had to rely on more hand outs)
just a few
know of actual embezzlement lower down the leagues in local soccer (teams I played for etc) but am not going to name names on here
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 01:58:14 PM
Flag ,Anthem ,Club names, Rallys on GAA land and "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
Yeah the GAA is non political all right
::)
jeez you have been listening to a lot of idiotic propaganda.
e.g. in the middle of county Cork or Carlow if the above list were observed:
Flag - whats political about that
Anthem - whats political about that
Club names - what is political about that
They're all still political, just not contentious. For obvious reasons.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
Rallys on GAA land - was this a GAA organised operation or do you think that macra na feirme are controlled by the GAA
Does the IFA control the actions of the supporters clubs? (Genuine question btw)
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
e.g. in the middle of county Cork or Carlow if the above list were observed:
Flag - whats political about that
Anthem - whats political about that
Club names - what is political about that
Rallys on GAA land - was this a GAA organised operation or do you think that macra na feirme are controlled by the GAA
Grow up Lynchboy.
There is nothing more political than flags or anthems. There is a double standard at play here and well you know it
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
grow up ! - pot, kettle black !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:03:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:55:34 PM
please explain how !
where do the GAA and 'supporters clubs' (I'd say county supporters clubs are about the only thing to equate to the ni soccer supporters clubs)
have political afiliations etc
or are you talking about GAA officials and embezzlement ?
anyhow over to you, I cant wait for this !
Perhaps you could begin with an example of FAI 'embezzlement'. Its quite a serious allegation to make against an organisation that publically releases audited accounts.
eg taking of cash on turnstiles - this can not be traced , can post whatever financial retuns they want but they are not guaranteed to be accurate (or truthful).
USA 94 WC - largest delegation of officials and their wives despite being one of the smallest countries represented at the wc.
where has all the money gone that was generated from 188 onwards, the money being gathered to build eircom park etc etc
now they can hardly refurbish traveller park in tallaght (well actually they couldnt could they, had to rely on more hand outs)
just a few
know of actual embezzlement lower down the leagues in local soccer (teams I played for etc) but am not going to name names on here
Yes, the GAA has a clear paper trail for all gate receipts. :D
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:15:54 PM
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
grow up ! - pot, kettle black !
Calling for a united Ireland is political. With a small p, but political nonetheless.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 02:15:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 01:58:14 PM
Flag ,Anthem ,Club names, Rallys on GAA land and "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
Yeah the GAA is non political all right
::)
jeez you have been listening to a lot of idiotic propaganda.
e.g. in the middle of county Cork or Carlow if the above list were observed:
Flag - whats political about that
Anthem - whats political about that
Club names - what is political about that
They're all still political, just not contentious. For obvious reasons.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
but I believe the attempt here is to indicate these are political in a contentious manner
Flags and anthems are more 'emblematic' than political I would have thought.
If flown in cork or carlow, would this be categorised as 'political' ?
would it not be purely procedural ?
as for the actions of ifa owned land - dont see the comparison as I dont think this exists.
I believe the soccer supporters clubs are often ifa afiliated are they not and effectively 'controlled' by ifa orders/directives ?
certainly the loyalist flags are flown on ifa premises/stadia.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:03:55 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 01:55:34 PM
please explain how !
where do the GAA and 'supporters clubs' (I'd say county supporters clubs are about the only thing to equate to the ni soccer supporters clubs)
have political afiliations etc
or are you talking about GAA officials and embezzlement ?
anyhow over to you, I cant wait for this !
Perhaps you could begin with an example of FAI 'embezzlement'. Its quite a serious allegation to make against an organisation that publically releases audited accounts.
eg taking of cash on turnstiles - this can not be traced , can post whatever financial retuns they want but they are not guaranteed to be accurate (or truthful).
USA 94 WC - largest delegation of officials and their wives despite being one of the smallest countries represented at the wc.
where has all the money gone that was generated from 188 onwards, the money being gathered to build eircom park etc etc
now they can hardly refurbish traveller park in tallaght (well actually they couldnt could they, had to rely on more hand outs)
just a few
know of actual embezzlement lower down the leagues in local soccer (teams I played for etc) but am not going to name names on here
Yes, the GAA has a clear paper trail for all gate receipts. :D
yes the potential is there alright. However we see the results of GAA funding around the country.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:19:03 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:15:54 PM
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
grow up ! - pot, kettle black !
Calling for a united Ireland is political. With a small p, but political nonetheless.
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
I have not seen todays news yet..
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:13:56 PM
eg taking of cash on turnstiles - this can not be traced , can post whatever financial retuns they want but they are not guaranteed to be accurate (or truthful).
USA 94 WC - largest delegation of officials and their wives despite being one of the smallest countries represented at the wc.
where has all the money gone that was generated from 188 onwards, the money being gathered to build eircom park etc etc
now they can hardly refurbish traveller park in tallaght (well actually they couldnt could they, had to rely on more hand outs)
just a few
know of actual embezzlement lower down the leagues in local soccer (teams I played for etc) but am not going to name names on here
1: All LoI teams provide ticketed reciepts that can be verified. Cash at the styles is long gone in soccer. As Maguire says, the GAA aren't in a position to throw rocks on this one.
2: Lansdowne Road and the grassroots.
3: Whats the FAI involvement in the Tallaght project?
You are spouting random garbage now. Accusing a named organisation of criminal activity with no evidence puts this boad at legal risk.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:23:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:13:56 PM
eg taking of cash on turnstiles - this can not be traced , can post whatever financial retuns they want but they are not guaranteed to be accurate (or truthful).
USA 94 WC - largest delegation of officials and their wives despite being one of the smallest countries represented at the wc.
where has all the money gone that was generated from 188 onwards, the money being gathered to build eircom park etc etc
now they can hardly refurbish traveller park in tallaght (well actually they couldnt could they, had to rely on more hand outs)
just a few
know of actual embezzlement lower down the leagues in local soccer (teams I played for etc) but am not going to name names on here
1: All LoI teams provide ticketed reciepts that can be verified. Cash at the styles is long gone in soccer. As Maguire says, the GAA aren't in a position to throw rocks on this one.
2: Lansdowne Road and the grassroots.
3: Whats the FAI involvement in the Tallaght project?
You are spouting random garbage now.
1. loi yes - below that am afraid now. However the GAA are in similar position. Unlike fai though , the GAA have a visable record of pumping large amounts of cash into local GAA setups (not jus tmoney obtained in grants - their own earned money).
2.lansdowne road - you are joking ! Thats mostly all borrowings and it still doesnt account for the vast earnings (with litle or nothjing to show for) since 1988.
3. the delegation of fai people that went to john odonoghue regarding the funding for traveller park..
you still havent answered ....
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:22:09 PM
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
I have not seen todays news yet..
From YOUR OWN POST
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimesYou are making a clown of yourself here.
Dublinfella you seem to be missing a very simple point.
The IFA is in the business (or supposed to be) of promoting soccer, nothing more nor nothing less. It continuously spouts on about how it has cleaned up its act, that its laughable football for all campaign is a success (in spite of the fact that the number of catholic nationalists who attend North of Ireland games is negligible) and awards itself OBEs etc for its achievements and even dares to suggest that other sports could learn from it.
My point is whether you like it or not there are two communities in the 6 counties and if the IFA or its supporters groups aspire to represent both communities it should not fly the flags of one and it certianly should not while doing so going around trying to convince all and sundry that they are non sectarian and promoting Football for All.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:22:09 PM
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
I have not seen todays news yet..
From YOUR OWN POST
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes
You are making a clown of yourself here.
I didnt post that
I replied to that post.
If you are going to lose a debate then please refrain from name calling !
you obv cannot read properly ! Obv I am not the 'coco' here !
you will see that I replied to that phrase in my post to gnevin.
Please try harder.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
That was my understanding - I mentioned the german flag that caused some contention at the time as well.
However seems like the scotland flag is now a permanent fixture
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:29:23 PM
1. loi yes - below that am afraid now. However the GAA are in similar position. Unlike fai though , the GAA have a visable record of pumping large amounts of cash into local GAA setups (not jus tmoney obtained in grants - their own earned money).
2.lansdowne road - you are joking ! Thats mostly all borrowings and it still doesnt account for the vast earnings (with litle or nothjing to show for) since 1988.
3. the delegation of fai people that went to john odonoghue regarding the funding for traveller park..
1: The gas thing is on soccer boards they accuse the GAA of freeloading off the state and point to the fact that the GAA get more in grants than all other field games combined despite having a lot less players than soccer. Its a tired cliche used by all sides. The FAI are perfectly entitled to their share of the grant scheme and its farcical to say they don't put money into the grassroots.
2: All the money the FAI have earned since 88 can be accounted for. You have to remember that they have gone from third most played sport to first in that time and structures had to be put in place. LR is not all borrowed, a huge amount of FAI funds has gone in. This information is all available, but you would prefer to be a stereotype and knock other sports for the sake of it.
3: Wow. The FAI backed up one of their clubs when the GAA went to the High Court against them. Do the media know? They should be told.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 02:30:33 PM
Dublinfella you seem to be missing a very simple point.
The IFA is in the business (or supposed to be) of promoting soccer, nothing more nor nothing less. It continuously spouts on about how it has cleaned up its act, that its laughable football for all campaign is a success (in spite of the fact that the number of catholic nationalists who attend North of Ireland games is negligible) and awards itself OBEs etc for its achievements and even dares to suggest that other sports could learn from it.
My point is whether you like it or not there are two communities in the 6 counties and if the IFA or its supporters groups aspire to represent both communities it should not fly the flags of one and it certianly should not while doing so going around trying to convince all and sundry that they are non sectarian and promoting Football for All.
I am not missing that point. A SUPPORTERS CLUB flying a flag cannot be taken as a proxy for the IFA as an association.
There has been progress on the sectarian/inclusive front, and compared to you the IFA minded posters on here do not seem like the unreasonable ones....
Quote from: nifan on August 11, 2009, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
That was my understanding - I mentioned the german flag that caused some contention at the time as well.
However seems like the scotland flag is now a permanent fixture
Thats akin to the lad in the celtic top protesting outside croke park to foreign sports!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:32:13 PM
I didnt post that
I replied to that post.
If you are going to lose a debate then please refrain from name calling !
you obv cannot read properly ! Obv I am not the 'coco' here !
you will see that I replied to that phrase in my post to gnevin.
Please try harder.
Christ on a Honda. Do you accept that the GAA's aims can be interepreted as being political in nature?
For the record, I don't object to them, but I see the unionist argument on this too.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:29:23 PM
1. loi yes - below that am afraid now. However the GAA are in similar position. Unlike fai though , the GAA have a visable record of pumping large amounts of cash into local GAA setups (not jus tmoney obtained in grants - their own earned money).
2.lansdowne road - you are joking ! Thats mostly all borrowings and it still doesnt account for the vast earnings (with litle or nothjing to show for) since 1988.
3. the delegation of fai people that went to john odonoghue regarding the funding for traveller park..
1: The gas thing is on soccer boards they accuse the GAA of freeloading off the state and point to the fact that the GAA get more in grants than all other field games combined despite having a lot less players than soccer. Its a tired cliche used by all sides. The FAI are perfectly entitled to their share of the grant scheme and its farcical to say they don't put money into the grassroots.
2: All the money the FAI have earned since 88 can be accounted for. You have to remember that they have gone from third most played sport to first in that time and structures had to be put in place. LR is not all borrowed, a huge amount of FAI funds has gone in. This information is all available, but you would prefer to be a stereotype and knock other sports for the sake of it.
3: Wow. The FAI backed up one of their clubs when the GAA went to the High Court against them. Do the media know? They should be told.
2. I disagree with.
3. no point in discussing
1. Freeloading is all it is. The GAA can demonstrate where the money goes. The diff is that soccer/fai cuckoo themselves ad refuse to buy anything.
All the local GAA clubs , pitches and clubhouses/facilities around the country and look at the soccer equivalent - cow fields and no facilities.
The difference in the GAA getting funds and the fai/soccer getting funds is glaringly obvious. the GAA facilities and the coaching programme throughout the country shows where the money goes.
unlike soccer who give feck all back. Just continue to take.
are you going to get over your childishness and answer those questions I asked you ?
a bit of manners...or in true soccer fashion, its all selfishness and me me me take take take !
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:32:13 PM
I didnt post that
I replied to that post.
If you are going to lose a debate then please refrain from name calling !
you obv cannot read properly ! Obv I am not the 'coco' here !
you will see that I replied to that phrase in my post to gnevin.
Please try harder.
Christ on a Honda. Do you accept that the GAA's aims can be interepreted as being political in nature?
For the record, I don't object to them, but I see the unionist argument on this too.
so you accept that I didnt write this !
Apology accepted.
Secondly, of course I can see how anyone could deem this to be political , but a lot of things are not difficult to grasp once they have been explained - but those who wish to not grasp or accept the explanation have the problem.
Do you not accept that this phrase has no connection with modern day GAA and that the GAA do not in any way actively pursue this ?
If they do please enlighten me as to how and when they do.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:49:09 PM
2. I disagree with.
3. no point in discussing
1. Freeloading is all it is. The GAA can demonstrate where the money goes. The diff is that soccer/fai cuckoo themselves ad refuse to buy anything.
All the local GAA clubs , pitches and clubhouses/facilities around the country and look at the soccer equivalent - cow fields and no facilities.
The difference in the GAA getting funds and the fai/soccer getting funds is glaringly obvious. the GAA facilities and the coaching programme throughout the country shows where the money goes.
unlike soccer who give feck all back. Just continue to take.
are you going to get over your childishness and answer those questions I asked you ?
a bit of manners...or in true soccer fashion, its all selfishness and me me me take take take !
This is pathetic, like the rest of your 'contribution' on this thread. The GAA takes three times the money the FAI do from the state, including the possibility of player grants the FAI aren't entiteld to and they are the freeloaders? "Just continue to take"? Its a bizarre attitude and the mirror of what they say about the GAA on foot.ie.
Some FAI facilities are top notch. Some are poor. So what? Its the same with the GAA. But remember the GAA got a huge amount of land for free from the land commission around the time of the foundation of the state. Thats a huge help. But the substantive issue is that you are on cloud cuckoo land if you think the FAI aren't a well drilled organisation these days.
Are you seriously arguing that the FAI don't employ coaches at the grassroots? Don't contribute to their communities? There are more soccer players than hurlers and footballers combined. Hence the GAA are now copying their grassroots model.
You are the GAA sterotype that gets mocked by the soccer lads.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
as for
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
It's the basic aim of the association , you and your club should be aware of it.The line dates to the current aim of the GAA and is enforceable by rule 17b.
The original aims where
1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes
2. To open athletics to all social classes
3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties
So check some facts and stop talking out your hoop.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 03:13:16 PM
So check some facts and stop talking out your hoop.
Well said. You are a shambles on this thread Lynchboy.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 02:30:33 PM
My point is whether you like it or not there are two communities in the 6 counties and if the IFA or its supporters groups aspire to represent both communities it should not fly the flags of one and it certianly should not while doing so going around trying to convince all and sundry that they are non sectarian and promoting Football for All.
Ditto the GAA ? Or why do the GAA get a pass. Also you never answered my question!
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 03:11:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:49:09 PM
2. I disagree with.
3. no point in discussing
1. Freeloading is all it is. The GAA can demonstrate where the money goes. The diff is that soccer/fai cuckoo themselves ad refuse to buy anything.
All the local GAA clubs , pitches and clubhouses/facilities around the country and look at the soccer equivalent - cow fields and no facilities.
The difference in the GAA getting funds and the fai/soccer getting funds is glaringly obvious. the GAA facilities and the coaching programme throughout the country shows where the money goes.
unlike soccer who give feck all back. Just continue to take.
are you going to get over your childishness and answer those questions I asked you ?
a bit of manners...or in true soccer fashion, its all selfishness and me me me take take take !
This is pathetic, like the rest of your 'contribution' on this thread. The GAA takes three times the money the FAI do from the state, including the possibility of player grants the FAI aren't entiteld to and they are the freeloaders? "Just continue to take"? Its a bizarre attitude and the mirror of what they say about the GAA on foot.ie.
Some FAI facilities are top notch. Some are poor. So what? Its the same with the GAA. But remember the GAA got a huge amount of land for free from the land commission around the time of the foundation of the state. Thats a huge help. But the substantive issue is that you are on cloud cuckoo land if you think the FAI aren't a well drilled organisation these days.
Are you seriously arguing that the FAI don't employ coaches at the grassroots? Don't contribute to their communities? There are more soccer players than hurlers and footballers combined. Hence the GAA are now copying their grassroots model.
You are the GAA sterotype that gets mocked by the soccer lads.
a a whole (no pun intended) like for like the fai funding of facilities/pitches etc is not comparable to the GAA facilities throughout the country. Not the individual one offs dotted about the place.
No comparison.
Not that I'd care about copying a decent precedent (Gaelic games have copied soccer in the yellow/red card thing) but did the GAA not first employ coaches for the grassroots/kids/schools/college first?
The Vast percentage of all funding obtained by the GAA is ploughed back into GAA facilities. The same cannot be said for fai/soccer 'funding' no mater how much you try to gloss over it and dress it up.
the fai/soccer DONT contribute to the community at he same level or in as many places throughout the country (the country extends further than lucan you know) - so its with the usual degree and lack of education that fai/soccer types would be 'mocking' anything!
any answers coming from you on the points asked by me ,or are manners also beyond you?
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
as for
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
It's the basic aim of the association , you and your club should be aware of it.The line dates to the current aim of the GAA and is enforceable by rule 17b.
The original aims where
1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes
2. To open athletics to all social classes
3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties
So check some facts and stop talking out your hoop.
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 03:51:11 PM
a a whole (no pun intended) like for like the fai funding of facilities/pitches etc is not comparable to the GAA facilities throughout the country. Not the individual one offs dotted about the place.
No comparison.
Not that I'd care about copying a decent precedent (Gaelic games have copied soccer in the yellow/red card thing) but did the GAA not first employ coaches for the grassroots/kids/schools/college first?
The Vast percentage of all funding obtained by the GAA is ploughed back into GAA facilities. The same cannot be said for fai/soccer 'funding' no mater how much you try to gloss over it and dress it up.
the fai/soccer DONT contribute to the community at he same level or in as many places throughout the country (the country extends further than lucan you know) - so its with the usual degree and lack of education that fai/soccer types would be 'mocking' anything!
any answers coming from you on the points asked by me ,or are manners also beyond you?
What points?
As for the highlighted, what are you alledging they do with their capital grants?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:02:35 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 03:51:11 PM
a a whole (no pun intended) like for like the fai funding of facilities/pitches etc is not comparable to the GAA facilities throughout the country. Not the individual one offs dotted about the place.
No comparison.
Not that I'd care about copying a decent precedent (Gaelic games have copied soccer in the yellow/red card thing) but did the GAA not first employ coaches for the grassroots/kids/schools/college first?
The Vast percentage of all funding obtained by the GAA is ploughed back into GAA facilities. The same cannot be said for fai/soccer 'funding' no mater how much you try to gloss over it and dress it up.
the fai/soccer DONT contribute to the community at he same level or in as many places throughout the country (the country extends further than lucan you know) - so its with the usual degree and lack of education that fai/soccer types would be 'mocking' anything!
any answers coming from you on the points asked by me ,or are manners also beyond you?
What points?
As for the highlighted, what are you alledging they do with their capital grants?
so after the name calling etc you dont seem capable of reading yourself ?
not too hard to pick these out from the prev posts
you still havent answered ....
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
yer starting to rack them up, then again typical soccer pigs head throwing louts dont know the meaning of manners !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
as for
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
It's the basic aim of the association , you and your club should be aware of it.The line dates to the current aim of the GAA and is enforceable by rule 17b.
The original aims where
1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes
2. To open athletics to all social classes
3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties
So check some facts and stop talking out your hoop.
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:18:22 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 03:13:16 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 02:08:47 PM
as for
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
It's the basic aim of the association , you and your club should be aware of it.The line dates to the current aim of the GAA and is enforceable by rule 17b.
The original aims where
1. To foster and promote native Irish pastimes
2. To open athletics to all social classes
3. To aid in the establishment of hurling and football clubs which would organise matches between counties
So check some facts and stop talking out your hoop.
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 02:35:45 PM
2: All the money the FAI have earned since 88 can be accounted for. You have to remember that they have gone from third most played sport to first in that time and structures had to be put in place. LR is not all borrowed, a huge amount of FAI funds has gone in. This information is all available, but you would prefer to be a stereotype and knock other sports for the sake of it.
Really? Did it include the first class flights for all the officials and the wives that Roy Keane kicked up about when they were stuck in economy? Or paying millions on a toy model of eircom park.
The FAI in the 1990's and early 2000's did absolutely bugger all to help the grass roots soccer clubs, including most premier division clubs in the local leagues. All the hard work was done by the players, friends and relatives in the localities which included fundraising activities to keep such entities going.
The FAI didn't care about the grass roots, people like Milo Corcoran, Delaney & all were too busy [obscured] their own [obscured]. These folk dont really have the best interests of the game at heart it seems. Not that i'm bothered but sad for those who actually put in a lot for no reward.
If the FAI were serious about promoting the games they would have scouts out at local matches, looking for the best talents at youth and other levels. Their only plan in development in the last number of years is to check if such and such has an irish granny and steal them. Top end is all that matters to them.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:17:42 PM
not too hard to pick these out from the prev posts
you still havent answered ....
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
yer starting to rack them up, then again typical soccer pigs head throwing louts dont know the meaning of manners !
In order - the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
How would I know?
Yes
The rules of the GAA insist that the Irish flag and anthem are utiliised no matter where the game is played. Thats a statement that the GAA supports a version of Irishness others don't share so can be seen as exclusionary.
The rules of the GAA clearly call for a 32 county Irish entity. Surely you aren't a memeber of an association whose rulebook and aims you haven't read?
As for the insults, well thats par for the course with you, isn't it.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
[/quote]
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
[/quote]
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:24:16 PM
Really? Did it include the first class flights for all the officials and the wives that Roy Keane kicked up about when they were stuck in economy? Or paying millions on a toy model of eircom park.
Probably.
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:24:16 PM
The FAI in the 1990's and early 2000's did absolutely bugger all to help the grass roots soccer clubs, including most premier division clubs in the local leagues. All the hard work was done by the players, friends and relatives in the localities which included fundraising activities to keep such entities going.
So the exact same as the GAA so.
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:24:16 PM
The FAI didn't care about the grass roots, people like Milo Corcoran, Delaney & all were too busy [obscured] their own [obscured]. These folk dont really have the best interests of the game at heart it seems. Not that i'm bothered but sad for those who actually put in a lot for no reward.
If the FAI were serious about promoting the games they would have scouts out at local matches, looking for the best talents at youth and other levels. Their only plan in development in the last number of years is to check if such and such has an irish granny and steal them. Top end is all that matters to them.
I disagree. The best young Irish players are staying in Ireland a lot longer, either in the LoI clubs with the facilties or the regional development centers.
Its totally off tangent at this stage, but the old cliche about the FAI being incompetent and corrupt simply doesnt fly anymore. The LoI is clearly improved in standard, look at the Euro results, more people play soccer than hurling and football combined, faclilities are improving, they own half of a state of the art stadium in the city centre and the national team should make the world cup. But hey, if dismissing them is what you want to do, carry on.
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Not when they are playing for Ulster, which is what we are discussing here....
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:17:42 PM
not too hard to pick these out from the prev posts
you still havent answered ....
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
yer starting to rack them up, then again typical soccer pigs head throwing louts dont know the meaning of manners !
In order - the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
How would I know?
Yes
The rules of the GAA insist that the Irish flag and anthem are utiliised no matter where the game is played. Thats a statement that the GAA supports a version of Irishness others don't share so can be seen as exclusionary.
The rules of the GAA clearly call for a 32 county Irish entity. Surely you aren't a memeber of an association whose rulebook and aims you haven't read?
As for the insults, well thats par for the course with you, isn't it.
thats not the 'flag' of northern Ireland.
Correct not representative of the whole community and a devisive flag which is what the complaint in this thread is about.
Doesnt normally stop you spouting rubbish.
Its political - well thats made me laugh. I'd wonder how!
Really, must look to see where the national flag is next time we play junior football and wonder which one of the panel can belt out the national anthem. Showing your a la carte Gaa knowledge there roversboy!
Please tell / show us how and where this 'aim' (as gnevin puts it) is enforced or followed up. We all know you cant, as this 'rule' does not exist in anything other than written (albeit historic) format.
well as for the insults - you started that long ago in this thread and it was a lot worse than my jibe!
Yet you didnt cry aloud that 'you are not a soccer fan' this time as you usually do and took the comment applicable to (rovers) soccer fans - so I think you can safely say that you have been 'caught out' this time !
so still no answers yet from roversfella and gnevin...
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
[/quote]
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
[/quote]
where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.
(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)
so in your own time....
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:38:42 PM
Please tell / show us how and where this 'aim' (as gnevin puts it) is enforced or followed up. We all know you cant, as this 'rule' does not exist in anything other than written (albeit historic) format.
Are you slow, P5 of the 2003 official guide read it . Rule 17b also applies so there is nothing historic about this .
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Not when they are playing for Ulster, which is what we are discussing here....
But thats a bastardised version of the ulster flag. this is the real one.
(http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/symbols/ulster.gif)
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Not when they are playing for Ulster, which is what we are discussing here....
so its not political when these lads play for Ireland
but its political when in cork of carlow etc
hmmmm - hardly consistent there our rovers claim jumping old pal !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
QuoteQuote
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.
(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)
so in your own time....
1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:41:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Not when they are playing for Ulster, which is what we are discussing here....
But thats a bastardised version of the ulster flag. this is the real one.
(http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/symbols/ulster.gif)
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:43:36 PM
so its not political when these lads play for Ireland
but its political when in cork of carlow etc
hmmmm - hardly consistent there our rovers claim jumping old pal !
Stop sniffing glue.
You have nothing whatsoever to contribute to this debate and have made a complete fool of yourself. I'm out.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:43:36 PM
so its not political when these lads play for Ireland
but its political when in cork of carlow etc
hmmmm - hardly consistent there our rovers claim jumping old pal !
Stop sniffing glue.
You have nothing whatsoever to contribute to this debate and have made a complete fool of yourself. I'm out.
well that may be your chosen recreational habit, but it aint mine.
It would explain why you cannot respond to the questions though.
I am not displaying double standards. The fact is that an organisation whose alleged aim is to promote soccer, a global sport, and nothing else in an extremely polarised society should not use the flags and emblems peratining to one side of that polarised community, particularly when that same organisation is under the mircoscope for its sectarian past
Analogies with the GAA are completely irrelevant.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:43:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
QuoteQuote
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.
(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)
so in your own time....
1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?
I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.
so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
So lets take the first step and get rid of the flag and anthem in the GAA!
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:52:19 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:43:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
QuoteQuote
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.
(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)
so in your own time....
1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?
I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.
so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)
You brought you the death penalty and where wrong as to its legal status
Would you join an organisation who's basic aim was
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 6 County Northern Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."
I'd better off discussing this with a 2 year old .
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 04:50:02 PM
I am not displaying double standards. The fact is that an organisation whose alleged aim is to promote soccer, a global sport, and nothing else in an extremely polarised society should not use the flags and emblems peratining to one side of that polarised community, particularly when that same organisation is under the mircoscope for its sectarian past
Analogies with the GAA are completely irrelevant.
So if the IFA went the other way and delcared themselves defenders of Ulster Protestant traditions etc, then it would be ok?
Like it or not the red hand flag is the official flag of the statelet. What else would you have them use?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:17:42 PM
not too hard to pick these out from the prev posts
you still havent answered ....
what is a 'six county flag' ?
who does it represent?
Commissioned by who ?
is it 'political ' when in occurrence in co cork or co carlow ?
if so please tell me how (or relate to us how it is)
and when you and gnevin admit it isnt then its the same for any part of Ireland
who in the GAA is calling for a united Ireland ?
yer starting to rack them up, then again typical soccer pigs head throwing louts dont know the meaning of manners !
In order - the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
How would I know?
Yes
The rules of the GAA insist that the Irish flag and anthem are utiliised no matter where the game is played. Thats a statement that the GAA supports a version of Irishness others don't share so can be seen as exclusionary.
The rules of the GAA clearly call for a 32 county Irish entity. Surely you aren't a memeber of an association whose rulebook and aims you haven't read?
As for the insults, well thats par for the course with you, isn't it.
The rules state that national flag must be flown at all matches...not so sure the GAA insists on the anthem being played at all matches...but I could be wrong
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:53:48 PM
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
So lets take the first step and get rid of the flag and anthem in the GAA!
[/quote]
Why? We're talking about the IFA here.
DAublinfella if they did admit that I would have more respect for their honesty, its the Football for All and we have got rid of sectarianism crap that gets up my nose.
Can you not see how using the symbols of one side in a bitterly polarised community is so wrong and in fact is the principle reason why the team attracts no catholic support? I know in a normal society it would be perfectly normal for a football association to fly that nation's flag and use that nation's anthem but the fact is that this is not a normal society, this is a society whose sovereignty is disputed by almost half the population.
Again the analogy with the GAA is invalid (though used by unionist to justify the IFA). The GAA exists to promote Irish culture and games, the IFA like all other soccer associations is supposed to exist to promote soccer only. At the very least it could have some regard for the sensitivities of the flags and emblems issue
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Like it or not, that flag (the "Ulster Banner") is recognised as representing NI, regardless of the fact that it's not an official flag for the 6 counties.
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/teams/team=43952/index.html
Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
[/quote]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Gnevin
Lets look at this rule nr 2 THE BASIC AIM
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."The GAA is a 32 county association and it seeks to strengthen the national identity of a 32 county Ireland.
The components of the national identity that concern the GAA are clarified as language, games and customs.
Dangerous stuff indeed to frighten the hearts and minds of people who have an anathema to a those components of a national identity -
LANGUAGE GAMES AND CUSTOMS.
This is the basic aim of the GAA.
Apart from moans, I see no valid argument from you of a necessity to change the basic aim of the GAA constitution.
When I do, I would consider it.
The GAA was around for decades before you arrived Gnevin.
Do you have an appreciation of the neccessity for a Gaelic sports organisation which set it self up with those goals in mind, at that time?
Do you have an appreciation of the input the GAA has had on our national identity through the medium of Gaelic games?
Do you value that input?
Do you see the GAA these days as anything else other than a Gaelic sports focussed organisation but still true to its basic aim of nourishing that sporting component of irish national identity throughout the 32 counties?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone
...apart from FIFA clearly.
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2009, 05:21:49 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
Quote
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Gnevin
Lets look at this rule nr 2 THE BASIC AIM
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
The GAA is a 32 county association and it seeks to strengthen the national identity of a 32 county Ireland.
The components of the national identity that concern the GAA are clarified as language, games and customs.
Dangerous stuff indeed to frighten the hearts and minds of people who have an anathema to a those components of a national identity -
LANGUAGE GAMES AND CUSTOMS.
This is the basic aim of the GAA.
Apart from moans, I see no valid argument from you of a necessity to change the basic aim of the GAA constitution.
When I do, I would consider it.
The GAA was around for decades before you arrived Gnevin.
Do you have an appreciation of the neccessity for a Gaelic sports organisation which set it self up with those goals in mind, at that time?
Do you have an appreciation of the input the GAA has had on our national identity through the medium of Gaelic games?
Do you value that input?
Do you see the GAA these days as anything else other than a Gaelic sports focussed organisation but still true to its basic aim of nourishing that sporting component of irish national identity throughout the 32 counties?
I've no problem with a national identity part ,it's the political statement of a 32 County Ireland I have a issue with and only because the GAA claim to be non political .
Yes, note the above aim is the
modern goal of the GAA . I for one prefer the original goal(s)
Yes
Yes
Yes, the GAA is more than a sporting and cultural organisation and needs to shed the baggage.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:27:30 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone
...apart from FIFA clearly.
If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.
The GAA exists to strengthen the national identity in a 32 county Ireland etc ...the GAA does not have any opinion on what is the best form of government for Irish people and nowhere in the rules does it say we should live in a 32 county socialist republic! And I presume were the political map to change in Ireland and the island was divided into 7 different jurisdictions this aim would allow the GAA to continue to run the All Ireland Championships. The GAA allows London and New York to enter the Championship...I can't see the IFA allowing Bohemians to enter the Irish Cup ;)
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 04:50:02 PM
I am not displaying double standards. The fact is that an organisation whose alleged aim is to promote soccer, a global sport, and nothing else in an extremely polarised society should not use the flags and emblems peratining to one side of that polarised community, particularly when that same organisation is under the mircoscope for its sectarian past
Analogies with the GAA are completely irrelevant.
So if the IFA went the other way and delcared themselves defenders of Ulster Protestant traditions etc, then it would be ok?
Like it or not the red hand flag is the official flag of the statelet. What else would you have them use?
Wrong... the flag in question is completely unofficial and has never been formally adopted. The official flag is the St Patrick's saltire, which appears on the butcher's apron. If the bastardised red hand Star of David we're the lost tribe of Israel shitty rag was the official flag of the statelet, it would have a presence on the butcher's apron. It is a loyalist invention .... and I don't have to 'like it or not'
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 05:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:27:30 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone
...apart from FIFA clearly.
If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.
Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have
recognised it.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:39:07 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 05:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:27:30 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone
...apart from FIFA clearly.
If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.
Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have recognised it.
FIFA is a group of football associations...the UN it ain't!
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 11, 2009, 05:32:57 PM
The GAA exists to strengthen the national identity in a 32 county Ireland etc ...the GAA does not have any opinion on what is the best form of government for Irish people and nowhere in the rules does it say we should live in a 32 county socialist republic! And I presume were the political map to change in Ireland and the island was divided into 7 different jurisdictions this aim would allow the GAA to continue to run the All Ireland Championships. The GAA allows London and New York to enter the Championship...I can't see the IFA allowing Bohemians to enter the Irish Cup ;)
Spurious. The IFA can't let Bohs into the Irish Cup because FIFA won't let them. The GAA can do what they like.
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2009, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 04:50:02 PM
I am not displaying double standards. The fact is that an organisation whose alleged aim is to promote soccer, a global sport, and nothing else in an extremely polarised society should not use the flags and emblems peratining to one side of that polarised community, particularly when that same organisation is under the mircoscope for its sectarian past
Analogies with the GAA are completely irrelevant.
So if the IFA went the other way and delcared themselves defenders of Ulster Protestant traditions etc, then it would be ok?
Like it or not the red hand flag is the official flag of the statelet. What else would you have them use?
Wrong... the flag in question is completely unofficial and has never been formally adopted. The official flag is the St Patrick's saltire, which appears on the butcher's apron. If the bastardised red hand Star of David we're the lost tribe of Israel shitty rag was the official flag of the statelet, it would have a presence on the butcher's apron. It is a loyalist invention .... and I don't have to 'like it or not'
Also wrong. The Union flag is the only official flag for NI.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:53:48 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
So lets take the first step and get rid of the flag and anthem in the GAA!
as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?
as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 05:47:43 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?
as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem
What bubble have you been living in?
Lynchboy answer the question I asked you!
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:56:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:52:19 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:43:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
QuoteQuote
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.
(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)
so in your own time....
1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?
I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.
so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)
You brought you the death penalty and where wrong as to its legal status
Would you join an organisation who's basic aim was
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 6 County Northern Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."
I'd better off discussing this with a 2 year old .
OK try to make it easier for you to understand
WHEN the legislation was in place and a garda was killed, there was no one executed for his death.
That depicts how something written is not always cast in stone (and thats from our legal system)
so given that even the most serious of legislation doesnt always mean it has to be followed, then some small part of an ancient charter in the early beginnings of the GAA could hardly be most definitely applied at all times?
Anyhow back to your answer,
When have you heard, seen and who was it that have enforced , implemented or followed up on this 'aim'
Still waiting for an answer despite your attempts to squirm out of answering it and proving my point correct!
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:12:08 PM
DAublinfella if they did admit that I would have more respect for their honesty, its the Football for All and we have got rid of sectarianism crap that gets up my nose.
They have made an effort and things are better than they were. Fairs fair.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:12:08 PM
Can you not see how using the symbols of one side in a bitterly polarised community is so wrong and in fact is the principle reason why the team attracts no catholic support? I know in a normal society it would be perfectly normal for a football association to fly that nation's flag and use that nation's anthem but the fact is that this is not a normal society, this is a society whose sovereignty is disputed by almost half the population.
Yes. But the same applies to the GAA. Use the same benchmark of flags and anthems.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:12:08 PMAgain the analogy with the GAA is invalid (though used by unionist to justify the IFA). The GAA exists to promote Irish culture and games, the IFA like all other soccer associations is supposed to exist to promote soccer only. At the very least it could have some regard for the sensitivities of the flags and emblems issue
The GAA exists to promote a version of Irish culture invented in the late 19th century. Football was invented in a hotel bar and hurling was ressurected from a thousand year slumber. Unionists don't identify with it, nor do large swathes of urban Ireland.
I ask again. What flag and anthem should the IFA use to appease you?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:49:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 05:47:43 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?
as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem
What bubble have you been living in?
do ulster players not stand for the anthem and the flag ?
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 05:50:44 PM
Lynchboy answer the question I asked you!
tell you what, answer the question I asked you a long time ago in this thread and I'll answer yours no problem.
(what was your question?)
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:12:08 PM
DAublinfella if they did admit that I would have more respect for their honesty, its the Football for All and we have got rid of sectarianism crap that gets up my nose.
They have made an effort and things are better than they were. Fairs fair.
good God !
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 02:39:45 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 11, 2009, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
That was my understanding - I mentioned the german flag that caused some contention at the time as well.
However seems like the scotland flag is now a permanent fixture
Thats akin to the lad in the celtic top protesting outside croke park to foreign sports!
Agreed if that is the case.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:56:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:52:19 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:43:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
QuoteQuote
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.
(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)
so in your own time....
1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?
I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.
so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)
You brought you the death penalty and where wrong as to its legal status
Would you join an organisation who's basic aim was
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 6 County Northern Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."
I'd better off discussing this with a 2 year old .
OK try to make it easier for you to understand
WHEN the legislation was in place and a garda was killed, there was no one executed for his death.
That depicts how something written is not always cast in stone (and thats from our legal system)
so given that even the most serious of legislation doesnt always mean it has to be followed, then some small part of an ancient charter in the early beginnings of the GAA could hardly be most definitely applied at all times?
Anyhow back to your answer,
When have you heard, seen and who was it that have enforced , implemented or followed up on this 'aim'
Still waiting for an answer despite your attempts to squirm out of answering it and proving my point correct!
And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .
The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:49:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 05:47:43 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:44:37 PM
I don't disagree, but it is the reality we face.
Do you agree Fearon is applying a double standard in condemning a supporters bar for flying the red hand flag yet supporting the GAA flying tricolours?
Sorry, I don't get your reality. The flag isn't correct and if NI wants to eradicate sectarianism it would do well to find common ground in the flag and anthem (until they are assimilated into a 32 county team)
Agreed. But if NI as a whole can't do so, its a tad unfair to expect the IFA to sort it all out. Also, could the GAA not make a similar step and not fly tricolours in the 6 or is it all up to themmuns to change?
as the rugby example has shown, the Irish flag and anthem are not causing a problem
What bubble have you been living in?
do ulster players not stand for the anthem and the flag ?
They do. But that doesn't mean there hasn't been a flags or anthems issue with rugby. Why do we have 'Ireland's Call'? Why was there a big flags and anthems issue for the game in Ravenhill only a few years ago? Have you been living on another planet? Just because there's no problem for you or me doesn't mean there's no problem.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 11, 2009, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:39:07 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 05:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:27:30 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 11, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Bullshit, its the flag imposed by unionists (along with their allies in the media etc) as purporting to represent the North of Ireland, it is not recognised by anyone
...apart from FIFA clearly.
If they had sent in a photo of a chimp eating a banana they would have used that image as the IFA have CLAIMED it was the national flag. I don't think FIFA would have turned around and said no, they'd have to take it at face value.
Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have recognised it.
FIFA is a group of football associations...the UN it ain't!
I do apologise - i thought the discussion was about soccer...
Some good and fair points Maguire01.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 06:08:36 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 11, 2009, 05:41:03 PM
Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have recognised it.
FIFA is a group of football associations...the UN it ain't!
I do apologise - i thought the discussion was about soccer...
[/quote]
So if the IFA said the moon was made out of cheese you'd believe them? :D
Private social and international supporters club displays national flags shocker :o :o
This thread is ridiculous, started by the biggest joker of all who annually posts the same inaccurate nonsense.
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2009, 09:39:08 PM
Private social and international supporters club displays national flags shocker :o :o
This thread is ridiculous, started by the biggest joker of all who annually posts the same inaccurate nonsense.
Do you not fell it is ironic that it claims to be a northern ireland supporters club, yet flies a Scotland flag? ???
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2009, 09:39:08 PM
Private social and international supporters club displays national flags shocker :o :o
This thread is ridiculous, started by the biggest joker of all who annually posts the same inaccurate nonsense.
Do you not fell it is ironic that it claims to be a northern ireland supporters club, yet flies a Scotland flag? ???
In the week before they played Scotland? No irony at all. Same goes for all the other opponents flegs they display in the run up to a game.
Quote from: nifan on August 11, 2009, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
That was my understanding - I mentioned the german flag that caused some contention at the time as well.
However seems like the scotland flag is now a permanent fixture
no not just in the week before the scottish game ::)
Quote from: hardstation on August 11, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
This theory needs to be put to the test. A game with the Republic would be a great test.
I dont know if they do it anymore - last couple of games they havent flown the visiting nations flag (or i havent noticed it) and the scotland flag now seems to be there all the time.
Dont know why its there, but it may not be something sinister.
Some idiots on this threads.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 11, 2009, 05:32:57 PM
The GAA exists to strengthen the national identity in a 32 county Ireland etc ...the GAA does not have any opinion on what is the best form of government for Irish people and nowhere in the rules does it say we should live in a 32 county socialist republic! And I presume were the political map to change in Ireland and the island was divided into 7 different jurisdictions this aim would allow the GAA to continue to run the All Ireland Championships. The GAA allows London and New York to enter the Championship...I can't see the IFA allowing Bohemians to enter the Irish Cup ;)
Spurious. The IFA can't let Bohs into the Irish Cup because FIFA won't let them. The GAA can do what they like.
Derry City?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
I ask again. What flag and anthem should the IFA use to appease you?
A flag bearing the IFA crest and nothing else.
An anthem that isn't GSTQ - possibly Danny Boy or Roddy McCorley or The Gem of the Roe or Dylan's Blowin in the Wind. Or Dana's "When Yer Man gets the ball".
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Not when they are playing for Ulster, which is what we are discussing here....
Tommy Bowe?
In fairness, it's mostly one twit.
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2009, 09:58:19 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2009, 09:39:08 PM
Private social and international supporters club displays national flags shocker :o :o
This thread is ridiculous, started by the biggest joker of all who annually posts the same inaccurate nonsense.
Do you not fell it is ironic that it claims to be a northern ireland supporters club, yet flies a Scotland flag? ???
In the week before they played Scotland? No irony at all. Same goes for all the other opponents flegs they display in the run up to a game.
What about the "Faugh a Ballagh" flag that's being flown at the minute? When's the match against the UDR?
[/quote]
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 06:05:37 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:56:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:52:19 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:43:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 04:19:50 PM
QuoteQuote
I shall re-iterate my prev answer to you, slowly this time .
The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes."
do you hear or see this often? The first time I heard of this was on this website a few months back.
Maybe it is dredged up in your club and if so then your club do have over-political leanings, but this line dates back to the origial charters of the GAA and is I suppose kept for historical purposes more than anything else.
Unless you can tell me differently - that the GAA do enforce and follow this creed, I would have to say that this is pants and is effectively non-existent in the GAA.
so please come back with some ACTUAL political GAA-centric evidence. Otherwise its just rehashed nonsense.
do you see this enforcement often (of the above statementor 'aim' as you put it),
if so where and when!
I think all credit to vocal projection must be to yourself as I dont expect an answer to either!
Get proved wrong so move the goalpost typical of you .
Not moving anything. It either exists in usage/reality or it doesnt.
so you cant/wont answer he question - or is it that you have been proven wrong !
The rule exists and no about of news-speak by you will change this fact .
http://www.gaa.ie/files/gaa_official_guide2003.pdf
where and when have you ever seen/heard this being enforced - is the question that was put to you.
We all know it exists in print. But does it exist in reality.
(e.g. rem the death penalty exists in print for anyone that kills a copper - which means those guys released the other day should have been shot/hung)
so in your own time....
1 The death penalty no longer exists in any way shape or form in Ireland or the UK .
2 Your just attempting to deflect from the content of this rule by saying it's not enforced. If it's so unimportant why is it listed second after the GAA's name ?
I brought up the death penalty example toshow you that even when enshrined (written) in law the death penalty was not used or followed.
Thats legislative criminal law , not the charter of a sports organisation where 'aims' matter less.
so with that point made, please refrain from avoiding the question yet again and tell us where , when and who it was that you saw following this 'aim'.
Or is it as we all know a load of c**p from you again (admittedly with better spelling at long last)
You brought you the death penalty and where wrong as to its legal status
Would you join an organisation who's basic aim was
"The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 6 County Northern Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."
I'd better off discussing this with a 2 year old .
OK try to make it easier for you to understand
WHEN the legislation was in place and a garda was killed, there was no one executed for his death.
That depicts how something written is not always cast in stone (and thats from our legal system)
so given that even the most serious of legislation doesnt always mean it has to be followed, then some small part of an ancient charter in the early beginnings of the GAA could hardly be most definitely applied at all times?
Anyhow back to your answer,
When have you heard, seen and who was it that have enforced , implemented or followed up on this 'aim'
Still waiting for an answer despite your attempts to squirm out of answering it and proving my point correct!
And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .
The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .
no you brought up that the GAA were political and that this 'aim' is the complete and only point you offer as some sort of evidence.
However you still refuse to tell us where, when and by who this 'aim' is pushed/enforced or acted upon.
Until you can (which obv you cannot) then your point is moot and your accusatin is completely false.
as the irrelevant digressions of gnevin and roversfella have come to naught , back then to the topic and that the ni soccer supporters club in shaftsbury (if not indeed in a myriad of places) are prone to flying dodgy flegs or flegs of other nations such as israel or scotland - but some try to masquerade this as only happening when these teams are being played....
Have to say that our competition winning colleague has not been disproven yet !
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Nope, just posting my now-traditional (and due to be traditionally ignored by Tony) reality check on Tony's traditional "using the symbols of only one community exclusively" post.
(not all traditions are good, eh ;))
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
...this tradition however has a fair old amount of class and style so I wouldn't be up for changing it :)
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:38:57 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Nope, just posting my now-traditional (and due to be traditionally ignored by Tony) reality check on Tony's traditional "using the symbols of only one community exclusively" post.
(not all traditions are good, eh ;))
No, the colour green, the Celtic cross and the shamrock all pre-date the Reformation, the Act of Union and partition.
Whereas?
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:38:57 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Nope, just posting my now-traditional (and due to be traditionally ignored by Tony) reality check on Tony's traditional "using the symbols of only one community exclusively" post.
(not all traditions are good, eh ;))
No, the colour green, the Celtic cross and the shamrock all pre-date the Reformation, the Act of Union and partition.
Whereas?
It still discounts what Tony says about symbols that are exclusively of one community.
I'm not really making a serious point in any case, because I'm fairly convinced Tony makes deliberately "holey" arguments. (and I also think he deliberately aims to draw verbal "fire" on the GAA in a kind of ambush tactic...very odd man)
For my own point of view, I've long argued for a replacement for GSTQ. The FGoNI flag/Ulster Banner on the other hand, I'm very attached to (seeing it as the flag of my country* and all that) in a NI context, but to paraphrase Dev I'm not a "doctrinaire Ulster Bannerite".
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:38:57 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Nope, just posting my now-traditional (and due to be traditionally ignored by Tony) reality check on Tony's traditional "using the symbols of only one community exclusively" post.
(not all traditions are good, eh ;))
No, the colour green, the Celtic cross and the shamrock all pre-date the Reformation, the Act of Union and partition.
Whereas?
It still discounts what Tony says about symbols that are exclusively of one community.
I'm not really making a serious point in any case, because I'm fairly convinced Tony makes deliberately "holey" arguments. (and I also think he deliberately aims to draw verbal "fire" on the GAA in a kind of ambush tactic...very odd man)
For my own point of view, I've long argued for a replacement for GSTQ. The FGoNI flag/Ulster Banner on the other hand, I'm very attached to (seeing it as the flag of my country* and all that) in a NI context, but to paraphrase Dev I'm not a "doctrinaire Ulster Bannerite".
There is a possible argument that said flag was appropriate in the years from 1950 to 1974 - there isn't outside that. However the use of GSTQ negates such an argument.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:15:01 PM
Some idiots on this threads.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 11, 2009, 05:32:57 PM
The GAA exists to strengthen the national identity in a 32 county Ireland etc ...the GAA does not have any opinion on what is the best form of government for Irish people and nowhere in the rules does it say we should live in a 32 county socialist republic! And I presume were the political map to change in Ireland and the island was divided into 7 different jurisdictions this aim would allow the GAA to continue to run the All Ireland Championships. The GAA allows London and New York to enter the Championship...I can't see the IFA allowing Bohemians to enter the Irish Cup ;)
Spurious. The IFA can't let Bohs into the Irish Cup because FIFA won't let them. The GAA can do what they like.
Derry City?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
I ask again. What flag and anthem should the IFA use to appease you?
A flag bearing the IFA crest and nothing else.
An anthem that isn't GSTQ - possibly Danny Boy or Roddy McCorley or The Gem of the Roe or Dylan's Blowin in the Wind. Or Dana's "When Yer Man gets the ball".
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Not when they are playing for Ulster, which is what we are discussing here....
Tommy Bowe?
In fairness, it's mostly one twit.
Do you think the IFA could get Tommy to sing black velvet band before each match?
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:15:01 PM
Some idiots on this threads.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 11, 2009, 05:32:57 PM
The GAA exists to strengthen the national identity in a 32 county Ireland etc ...the GAA does not have any opinion on what is the best form of government for Irish people and nowhere in the rules does it say we should live in a 32 county socialist republic! And I presume were the political map to change in Ireland and the island was divided into 7 different jurisdictions this aim would allow the GAA to continue to run the All Ireland Championships. The GAA allows London and New York to enter the Championship...I can't see the IFA allowing Bohemians to enter the Irish Cup ;)
Spurious. The IFA can't let Bohs into the Irish Cup because FIFA won't let them. The GAA can do what they like.
Derry City?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
I ask again. What flag and anthem should the IFA use to appease you?
A flag bearing the IFA crest and nothing else.
An anthem that isn't GSTQ - possibly Danny Boy or Roddy McCorley or The Gem of the Roe or Dylan's Blowin in the Wind. Or Dana's "When Yer Man gets the ball".
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
the white red hand of Ulster flag.
Generally the unionist community, but is the recognised flag of the 6 counties in sport.
By whom? First time I've heard of it.
Sure don't the ulster representatives on the rugby team, David Humphries, Rory Best and pals line up with the tricolour and amhrann na bhfiann? It's going that way so you might as well get used to the song.
Not when they are playing for Ulster, which is what we are discussing here....
Tommy Bowe?
In fairness, it's mostly one twit.
Do you think the IFA could get Tommy to sing black velvet band before each match?
Depends on whether it's the Belfast or Tralee version.
On second thoughts, no, get the IFA to lift Peter Savage's ban and dress Tommy up as a linesman.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:38:57 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Nope, just posting my now-traditional (and due to be traditionally ignored by Tony) reality check on Tony's traditional "using the symbols of only one community exclusively" post.
(not all traditions are good, eh ;))
No, the colour green, the Celtic cross and the shamrock all pre-date the Reformation, the Act of Union and partition.
Whereas?
It still discounts what Tony says about symbols that are exclusively of one community.
I'm not really making a serious point in any case, because I'm fairly convinced Tony makes deliberately "holey" arguments. (and I also think he deliberately aims to draw verbal "fire" on the GAA in a kind of ambush tactic...very odd man)
For my own point of view, I've long argued for a replacement for GSTQ. The FGoNI flag/Ulster Banner on the other hand, I'm very attached to (seeing it as the flag of my country* and all that) in a NI context, but to paraphrase Dev I'm not a "doctrinaire Ulster Bannerite".
There is a possible argument that said flag was appropriate in the years from 1950 to 1974 - there isn't outside that. However the use of GSTQ negates such an argument.
Not really. The use of the Ulster Banner/fGoNI flag dates from when it had official government status; GSTQ back far longer than this (to a time when all four 'home countries' used GSTQ as it was the official anthem covering the whole UK) and didn't have a replacement with official status.
The argument that the Ulster Banner is appropriate after 1973 would be that it's the only flag of its own Northern Ireland has ever had, and is the flag regularly used to represent NI in the sporting arena.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
oh so you gave the answer as to
where your much trumpeted 'aim' was implemented/backed up/enforced,
when this was and by
whoI cant find that answer, though you must have it as you have purported that this 'aim' is current and is the crux of your whole 'argument' that the GAA are political (actually its your only point).
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
oh so you gave the answer as to where your much trumpeted 'aim' was implemented/backed up/enforced,
when this was and by who
I cant find that answer, though you must have it as you have purported that this 'aim' is current and is the crux of your whole 'argument' that the GAA are political (actually its your only point).
You know if you read what people posted and checked your fact you might not make such a fool out of yourself .
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13346.msg617262#msg617262
Answer the question please.
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 11:18:10 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:38:57 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Nope, just posting my now-traditional (and due to be traditionally ignored by Tony) reality check on Tony's traditional "using the symbols of only one community exclusively" post.
(not all traditions are good, eh ;))
No, the colour green, the Celtic cross and the shamrock all pre-date the Reformation, the Act of Union and partition.
Whereas?
It still discounts what Tony says about symbols that are exclusively of one community.
I'm not really making a serious point in any case, because I'm fairly convinced Tony makes deliberately "holey" arguments. (and I also think he deliberately aims to draw verbal "fire" on the GAA in a kind of ambush tactic...very odd man)
For my own point of view, I've long argued for a replacement for GSTQ. The FGoNI flag/Ulster Banner on the other hand, I'm very attached to (seeing it as the flag of my country* and all that) in a NI context, but to paraphrase Dev I'm not a "doctrinaire Ulster Bannerite".
There is a possible argument that said flag was appropriate in the years from 1950 to 1974 - there isn't outside that. However the use of GSTQ negates such an argument.
Not really. The use of the Ulster Banner/fGoNI flag dates from when it had official government status; GSTQ back far longer than this (to a time when all four 'home countries' used GSTQ as it was the official anthem covering the whole UK) and didn't have a replacement with official status.
The argument that the Ulster Banner is appropriate after 1973 would be that it's the only flag of its own Northern Ireland has ever had, and is the flag regularly used to represent NI in the sporting arena.
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that FIFA decreed a 'Northern Ireland' team in 1950, prior to this 'twas an All-Ireland IFA team. Hence the discredited Ulster banner couldn't be considered appropriate prior to 1950. After the fall of the hated pseudo-apartheid-esque Stormont regime, the discredited Ulster banner lost any official status. Your point about 'regular use' and hence pseudo "de facto" status for the flag is disingenious - talk us through 'regular' use of the flag.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 11, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
The GAA exists to promote a version of Irish culture invented in the late 19th century. Football was invented in a hotel bar and hurling was ressurected from a thousand year slumber. Unionists don't identify with it, nor do large swathes of urban Ireland.
I ask again. What flag and anthem should the IFA use to appease you?
coming from you thats a focking laugh, you'd know all about getting ignored by large swathes of urban ireland. there are more man u supporters on any street of tallaght then there are shamrock rovers supporters. as for the gaa promoting irish culture, never came across it in all my years playing football, got a little bit interested when the short skirts came along in riverdance but that was about it. i'll be at the ireland/aus match tomorrow night as i love the irish soccer team btw.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
oh so you gave the answer as to where your much trumpeted 'aim' was implemented/backed up/enforced,
when this was and by who
I cant find that answer, though you must have it as you have purported that this 'aim' is current and is the crux of your whole 'argument' that the GAA are political (actually its your only point).
You know if you read what people posted and checked your fact you might not make such a fool out of yourself .
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13346.msg617262#msg617262
Answer the question please.
is THIS your 'answer' to that question ?
And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .
The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .I cannot see or find any of the examples I asked you for !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:31:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
oh so you gave the answer as to where your much trumpeted 'aim' was implemented/backed up/enforced,
when this was and by who
I cant find that answer, though you must have it as you have purported that this 'aim' is current and is the crux of your whole 'argument' that the GAA are political (actually its your only point).
You know if you read what people posted and checked your fact you might not make such a fool out of yourself .
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13346.msg617262#msg617262
Answer the question please.
is THIS your 'answer' to that question ?
And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .
The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .
I cannot see or find any of the examples I asked you for !
::)
Don't worry when your finished reading Ann and Barry you maybe be able to talk with the grown ups.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:38:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:31:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
oh so you gave the answer as to where your much trumpeted 'aim' was implemented/backed up/enforced,
when this was and by who
I cant find that answer, though you must have it as you have purported that this 'aim' is current and is the crux of your whole 'argument' that the GAA are political (actually its your only point).
You know if you read what people posted and checked your fact you might not make such a fool out of yourself .
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13346.msg617262#msg617262
Answer the question please.
is THIS your 'answer' to that question ?
And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .
The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .
I cannot see or find any of the examples I asked you for !
::)
Don't worry when your finished reading Ann and Barry you maybe be able to talk with the grown ups.
please post your answer so I can then post mine...
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 09:59:56 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 11, 2009, 02:32:26 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: fred the red on August 11, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I took a look at this club on google maps to see what tony is on about.
In the pic there is a SCOTLAND flag flying outside. Is this normal practise?
Check the thread from last year. Scotland where NI's next opponent is the explanation the OWC lads gave.
That was my understanding - I mentioned the german flag that caused some contention at the time as well.
However seems like the scotland flag is now a permanent fixture
no not just in the week before the scottish game ::)
I'd be throught the square regularly enough and I have to admit I've never noticed it except last year. Not really looking mind as it's hardly ver interesting. That said, I would find it strange why they would fly the Scottish saltire but then again it's another region of our country and I'm sure there is some reason for it. It's not illegal.
Quote from: hardstation on August 11, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
This theory needs to be put to the test. A game with the Republic would be a great test.
Are you wanting to see if the FAI fly Northern Ireland's flag or are you just concerned about what SBNISC do about the republican flag?
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2009, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 11, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
This theory needs to be put to the test. A game with the Republic would be a great test.
Are you wanting to see if the FAI fly Northern Ireland's flag or are you just concerned about what SBNISC do about the republican flag?
an Irish flag you mean, the tricolour (created with both sides of the divide in mind) pre-dates the creation of the republic
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 11:26:12 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 11:18:10 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:59:48 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:38:57 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
So GSTQ and the discredited Ulster banner are all about equalising?
You are a more worthy contributor than that.
Nope, just posting my now-traditional (and due to be traditionally ignored by Tony) reality check on Tony's traditional "using the symbols of only one community exclusively" post.
(not all traditions are good, eh ;))
No, the colour green, the Celtic cross and the shamrock all pre-date the Reformation, the Act of Union and partition.
Whereas?
It still discounts what Tony says about symbols that are exclusively of one community.
I'm not really making a serious point in any case, because I'm fairly convinced Tony makes deliberately "holey" arguments. (and I also think he deliberately aims to draw verbal "fire" on the GAA in a kind of ambush tactic...very odd man)
For my own point of view, I've long argued for a replacement for GSTQ. The FGoNI flag/Ulster Banner on the other hand, I'm very attached to (seeing it as the flag of my country* and all that) in a NI context, but to paraphrase Dev I'm not a "doctrinaire Ulster Bannerite".
There is a possible argument that said flag was appropriate in the years from 1950 to 1974 - there isn't outside that. However the use of GSTQ negates such an argument.
Not really. The use of the Ulster Banner/fGoNI flag dates from when it had official government status; GSTQ back far longer than this (to a time when all four 'home countries' used GSTQ as it was the official anthem covering the whole UK) and didn't have a replacement with official status.
The argument that the Ulster Banner is appropriate after 1973 would be that it's the only flag of its own Northern Ireland has ever had, and is the flag regularly used to represent NI in the sporting arena.
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that FIFA decreed a 'Northern Ireland' team in 1950, prior to this 'twas an All-Ireland IFA team. Hence the discredited Ulster banner couldn't be considered appropriate prior to 1950.
FIFA decreed the use of the name Northern Ireland in 1954 (though not for the British Championships). In any case the Ulster Banner only dated from 1953.
Quote
After the fall of the hated pseudo-apartheid-esque Stormont regime, the discredited Ulster banner lost any official status. Your point about 'regular use' and hence pseudo "de facto" status for the flag is disingenious - talk us through 'regular' use of the flag.
It's used by any sporting teams representing Northern Ireland that I can think of.
As an aside, it's interesting that nationalist commentators who want to have a go at the NI team often do so by claiming that it's represented by the Union Flag being flown by the IFA at matches (Tony did this umpteen time on here before even he must've got fed up of being corrected)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2009, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 11, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
This theory needs to be put to the test. A game with the Republic would be a great test.
Are you wanting to see if the FAI fly Northern Ireland's flag or are you just concerned about what SBNISC do about the republican flag?
an Irish flag you mean, the tricolour (created with both sides of the divide in mind) pre-dates the creation of the republic
...with the explicit aim of creating a republic in mind. We've been through this before...
Quote from: saffron sam2 on August 11, 2009, 11:26:12 PM
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that FIFA decreed a 'Northern Ireland' team in 1950, prior to this 'twas an All-Ireland IFA team. Hence the discredited Ulster banner couldn't be considered appropriate prior to 1950. After the fall of the hated pseudo-apartheid-esque Stormont regime, the discredited Ulster banner lost any official status. Your point about 'regular use' and hence pseudo "de facto" status for the flag is disingenious - talk us through 'regular' use of the flag.
:D The reality avoidance / propaganda in that post is comical. Keep her lit big man :D
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:46:59 PM
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2009, 11:43:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 11, 2009, 10:01:23 PM
This theory needs to be put to the test. A game with the Republic would be a great test.
Are you wanting to see if the FAI fly Northern Ireland's flag or are you just concerned about what SBNISC do about the republican flag?
an Irish flag you mean, the tricolour (created with both sides of the divide in mind) pre-dates the creation of the republic
Great entertainment this board tonight :D
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:39:23 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:38:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:31:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
oh so you gave the answer as to where your much trumpeted 'aim' was implemented/backed up/enforced,
when this was and by who
I cant find that answer, though you must have it as you have purported that this 'aim' is current and is the crux of your whole 'argument' that the GAA are political (actually its your only point).
You know if you read what people posted and checked your fact you might not make such a fool out of yourself .
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13346.msg617262#msg617262
Answer the question please.
is THIS your 'answer' to that question ?
And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .
The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .
I cannot see or find any of the examples I asked you for !
::)
Don't worry when your finished reading Ann and Barry you maybe be able to talk with the grown ups.
please post your answer so I can then post mine...
The fact it's not implemented is not the point. I'll give you a clue the it refers to the Aim and rule 17B. 3rd posting of this.
Quote from: hardstation on August 11, 2009, 11:51:48 PM
Well, if they were to play the republic, it would be interesting to see if the "we always put up the other teams' flag" would be accepted.
Also, "Our Wee Country (and other regions of Our Big Country)" doesn't have the same ring to it.
Can't see it happening at SBNISC, IFA or FAI even though each normally fly opposition flags except when NI play ROI.
Quote from: carribbear on August 11, 2009, 07:47:06 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 06:08:36 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 11, 2009, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 11, 2009, 05:39:07 PM
Regardless of whether or not FIFA attempt to verify the validity of a particular flag, they have recognised it.
FIFA is a group of football associations...the UN it ain't!
I do apologise - i thought the discussion was about soccer...
So if the IFA said the moon was made out of cheese you'd believe them? :D
No, why, would FIFA?
Jaysus, I take the afternoon off to go and watch our U-21s play Portugal and when I come back here, the whole thread has gone barking mad, with Gaels arguing with Gaels about FAI corruption, anthem-singing rugby players and matters of vexilological minutiae which which tax a Jesuit in a Conundrum Championship!
Is it the wrong time of the month for yiz all, or a full moon, or has someone slipped something into the Communion wine or something?
Anyhow, it's about time some hard facts were put on the table.
1) The IFA has no control, officially or unofficially, over the SBNISC, which is a private members' club which can fly whatever flags it likes from its own property (so long as they are legal, which they all are);
2) The GAA does, however, have a degree of control over its Member Clubs, sufficient for them to mandate the flying of the Tricolour at all GAA games;
3) The IFA is required by FIFA/UEFA to supply a National Flag to be flown at all International games involving NI teams. The only official flag for NI is actually the Union Flag, but they decline to use that, preferring instead the NI flag, which was formerly the official flag of NI from its introduction in 1953, until Stormont was prorogued in 1972.
4) The IFA has some degree of control over its member clubs, but has (so far as I can tell) no official policy over what flags may be flown. Consequently, eg Linfield FC flies the Union Flag, also carried by their supporters and eg Donegal Celtic FC flies the following flag:
(http://file044b.bebo.com/5/large/2008/08/01/14/1571064286a8505859653l.jpg)
Their fans wave flags like the following:
(http://file044b.bebo.com/5/large/2008/08/01/14/1571064286a8505859521l.jpg)
5. In truth, no-one but a few d**kheads bother themselves very much about any of 1), 2), 3), 4) or 5)
6. If Shane Duffy carries on developing like he is, in a few years, he and Jonny Evans are going to make Nemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand look like something from a pub team.
7. I really only care about 6.
Now fcuk away off to bed the whole lot o' yiz, and don't switch on your computer again until yiz have all wised up.
EG...you were going really well there until no 6! This is an example of your famed humour??
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:52:20 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:39:23 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:38:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:31:06 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 11, 2009, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 11, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: MW on August 11, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
I await Tony's opinion on the NI shirt being Irish emerald green, bearing an IFA badge made up of a Celtic cross and four shamrocks... :)
too lame
how about a harp with something else in the background
a mountain or the sea
an traditional fry or pint of guinness/glass of whiskey are also too lame..
maybe a red hand?
Dodging my question Lynch?
you have not answered the question I posed you prior to yours...
Yes I did.
oh so you gave the answer as to where your much trumpeted 'aim' was implemented/backed up/enforced,
when this was and by who
I cant find that answer, though you must have it as you have purported that this 'aim' is current and is the crux of your whole 'argument' that the GAA are political (actually its your only point).
You know if you read what people posted and checked your fact you might not make such a fool out of yourself .
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13346.msg617262#msg617262
Answer the question please.
is THIS your 'answer' to that question ?
And for the forth time it's not from ancient time or the early beginnings as I posted the original aims of the association .
The fact it's not implemented is not the point , answer my question with a simple yes or no please .
I cannot see or find any of the examples I asked you for !
::)
Don't worry when your finished reading Ann and Barry you maybe be able to talk with the grown ups.
please post your answer so I can then post mine...
The fact it's not implemented is not the point. I'll give you a clue the it refers to the Aim and rule 17B. 3rd posting of this.
it is completely the point, you are basing your whole 'GAA being political' on this 'aim' (or rule as you are now calling it) but as this rule does not exist in the terms of reality , your argument is destroyed.
Unless you can point out where, when and by whome this rule has been invoked or enforced then it shows that this line isnt worth the ink its written with.
So examples please...
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 12, 2009, 01:09:19 AM
2) The GAA does, however, have a degree of control over its Member Clubs, sufficient for them to mandate the flying of the Tricolour at all GAA games;
your lack of knowledge of GAA means you guess too much.
the GAA do not mandate any such thing. I would very much doubt they would raise an eyebrow if a county ground didnt have the Irish flag at any of its intercounty games. Its more of a tradition than anything else. Cant see anyone being suspended or words being said over it (esp the further south you go).
Clubs rarely have Irish flags flown for games. So when you say 'clubs' you are entirely wrong.
ifa dont allow control out of their grasp on certain matters - eg Tony's much highlighted 'no soccer on sundays' rule - that can only come from ifa.
GAA HQ are not as controlling in this manner.
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
If they got bands to play the sash while the teams parade around the field do you reckon they could get more unionists to join the GAA, even if its just for the walk?
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
You are wasting your time producing facts for Lynch. He isn't listening.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
Gnevin I was using your earlier link to what I now notice is the 2003 guide. Must have brough this in between then and 2008 and they now do mention the anthem! Is the €500 for non display of the flag or for not treating the anthem with respect!!
Has any club or county board ever been fined for this??
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:24:48 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
Gnevin I was using your earlier link to what I now notice is the 2003 guide. Must have brough this in between then and 2008 and they now do mention the anthem! Is the €500 for non display of the flag or for not treating the anthem with respect!!
Has any club or county board ever been fined for this??
Yeah I though you where using the old guide. I wasn't saying you where wrong more of a FYI. Yes I think a few counties have been not 100% sure but Dublin and the Croker don't fly the flag and night which is the correct protocol and so technically should be fined ::)
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:28:54 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:24:48 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
Gnevin I was using your earlier link to what I now notice is the 2003 guide. Must have brough this in between then and 2008 and they now do mention the anthem! Is the €500 for non display of the flag or for not treating the anthem with respect!!
Has any club or county board ever been fined for this??
Yeah I though you where using the old guide. I wasn't saying you where wrong more of a FYI. Yes I think a few counties have been not 100% sure but Dublin and the Croker don't fly the flag and night which is the correct protocol and so technically should be fined ::)
The GAA could make some money on that one if it was implemented.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 12, 2009, 11:35:52 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:28:54 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:24:48 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
Gnevin I was using your earlier link to what I now notice is the 2003 guide. Must have brough this in between then and 2008 and they now do mention the anthem! Is the €500 for non display of the flag or for not treating the anthem with respect!!
Has any club or county board ever been fined for this??
Yeah I though you where using the old guide. I wasn't saying you where wrong more of a FYI. Yes I think a few counties have been not 100% sure but Dublin and the Croker don't fly the flag and night which is the correct protocol and so technically should be fined ::)
The GAA could make some money on that one if it was implemented.
Even better, fine the fans for cheering half way through the anthem!!
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
The best North of Ireland supporters seem to be able to do, when I put them behind the eight ball, is to refer to the GAA (a comparison is totally invalid), instead of addressing the key issue which is the IFA's hijacking of a global sport and politically aligning it in a partisan way to one part of a deeply polarised community. This is manifested by the flags display outside the South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club. To claim that the flag display is coinciding with a game is farcical.
This is the root cause of the decades of sectarianism witnessed at Windsor Park, and indeed the continued alienation of 45% of the six county community from the IFA and its team.
Until this is addressed no progress can be made and claims of being non sectarian and promoting football for all will remain hollow.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 12:35:15 PM
The best North of Ireland supporters seem to be able to do, when I put them behind the eight ball, is to refer to the GAA (a comparison is totally invalid), instead of addressing the key issue which is the IFA's hijacking of a global sport and politically aligning it in a partisan way to one part of a deeply polarised community. This is manifested by the flags display outside the South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club. To claim that the flag display is coinciding with a game is farcical.
This is the root cause of the decades of sectarianism witnessed at Windsor Park, and indeed the continued alienation of 45% of the six county community from the IFA and its team.
Until this is addressed no progress can be made and claims of being non sectarian and promoting football for all will remain hollow.
Tony, you know well by now that they are the masters of whataboutery!
this thread was originally about SBNISC but it went off on such a tangent that it wud put ur tumble dryer to shame!
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 12:35:15 PM
The best North of Ireland supporters seem to be able to do, when I put them behind the eight ball, is to refer to the GAA (a comparison is totally invalid), instead of addressing the key issue which is the IFA's hijacking of a global sport and politically aligning it in a partisan way to one part of a deeply polarised community. This is manifested by the flags display outside the South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club. To claim that the flag display is coinciding with a game is farcical.
This is the root cause of the decades of sectarianism witnessed at Windsor Park, and indeed the continued alienation of 45% of the six county community from the IFA and its team.
Until this is addressed no progress can be made and claims of being non sectarian and promoting football for all will remain hollow.
But really, if you're being honest, you're just (constantly) looking for more reasons not to like them. The fact that you keep using the term 'North of Ireland' in relation to the football team (regardless of your political opinion, this is not the name of the team) would surely imply that you'd be 'alienated' regardless of what the IFA does. I can't believe that you'd actually want it any other way.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
The North of Ireland is a term used by thousands to refer to this region and implies no bigotry or prejudice. You might as well try to argue that the term "Northern Ireland" and its use is evidence of bias. Its the same as using Derry or "Londonderry", no bias or prejudicial claims can be attached to any person for whichever name he or she decides to use when referring to a place.
If the IFA operated in a totally apolitical non partisan environment I would fully credit them for this achievement and would concede that they were genuinely interested in defeating sectarianism.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 12:55:16 PM
The North of Ireland is a term used by thousands to refer to this region and implies no bigotry or prejudice. You might as well try to argue that the term "Northern Ireland" and its use is evidence of bias. Its the same as using Derry or "Londonderry", no bias or prejudicial claims can be attached to any person for whichever name he or she decides to use when referring to a place.
But when you're using the name of an organisation - e.g. the South Belfast NISC - most people would generally use the actual name of the organisation, unless they were trying to make a point. In the same way that it would be improper for someone to talk about Londonderry City soccer club or Londonderry GAA.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 01:02:33 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 12:55:16 PM
The North of Ireland is a term used by thousands to refer to this region and implies no bigotry or prejudice. You might as well try to argue that the term "Northern Ireland" and its use is evidence of bias. Its the same as using Derry or "Londonderry", no bias or prejudicial claims can be attached to any person for whichever name he or she decides to use when referring to a place.
But when you're using the name of an organisation - e.g. the South Belfast NISC - most people would generally use the actual name of the organisation, unless they were trying to make a point. In the same way that it would be improper for someone to talk about Londonderry City soccer club or Londonderry GAA.
Much like the former minister for sport up here referring to the All Ireland Final as an international competition ::)
Quote from: Doogie Browser on August 12, 2009, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 01:02:33 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 12:55:16 PM
The North of Ireland is a term used by thousands to refer to this region and implies no bigotry or prejudice. You might as well try to argue that the term "Northern Ireland" and its use is evidence of bias. Its the same as using Derry or "Londonderry", no bias or prejudicial claims can be attached to any person for whichever name he or she decides to use when referring to a place.
But when you're using the name of an organisation - e.g. the South Belfast NISC - most people would generally use the actual name of the organisation, unless they were trying to make a point. In the same way that it would be improper for someone to talk about Londonderry City soccer club or Londonderry GAA.
Much like the former minister for sport up here referring to the All Ireland Final as an international competition ::)
Indeed.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
First of all the aim is the National Identity
of a 32 County Ireland not
IN a It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity
on the island of Ireland would be non political
Answer my question please!
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 01:10:30 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on August 12, 2009, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 01:02:33 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 12:55:16 PM
The North of Ireland is a term used by thousands to refer to this region and implies no bigotry or prejudice. You might as well try to argue that the term "Northern Ireland" and its use is evidence of bias. Its the same as using Derry or "Londonderry", no bias or prejudicial claims can be attached to any person for whichever name he or she decides to use when referring to a place.
But when you're using the name of an organisation - e.g. the South Belfast NISC - most people would generally use the actual name of the organisation, unless they were trying to make a point. In the same way that it would be improper for someone to talk about Londonderry City soccer club or Londonderry GAA.
Much like the former minister for sport up here referring to the All Ireland Final as an international competition ::)
Indeed.
So tony has the credentials to be the new sports minister?
that would be fun!
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
Answer my question please!
so you are now saying that there are not 32 counties ?
superb.
so as well as not being able to write, you cannot read or understand very well either !
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
Answer my question please!
to repeat my pm response to yours
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 12:36:49 PM
Are you slow.
Therefore it does not exist in reality ?
It exists it's in the rule book but you could say that while there is consequence for not following it in the rule book in reality the rule is not enforced.
Which is why you cannot give examples ?
I can't give examples of something was isn't implemented now can I? That is kind of the definition of not implemented .Its really is implied by the usage of implemented.
verb (used with object)
4. to fulfill; perform; carry out: Once in office, he failed to implement his campaign promises.
5. to put into effect according to or by means of a definite plan or procedure.
Is this correct and what your answer constitutes?
Yes that's what it constitutes
your uneducated jibes about me being slow are somewhat ironic. Not much of a 'debater' are you.
So you agree that this rule while written effectively does not exist and therefore there is nothing actually pursued in the course of a political interest.
This means the GAA do not have a poliical agenda.
the GAA are not a political organisation as you tried (and failed) to make out in your initial foolish post. So the GAA are not the same as the ifa in that regard.
As you have made this silly correlation previously, I now hope that you understand an no longer attempt to incorrectly label the GAA as a political organisation in future.
Now it wasnt that hard was it.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
Answer my question please!
the answer to your question, if the reverse was true and if the wording was changed from Ireland to six counties - with the same 'enforcement' (or complete lack of) and no notion of this being true in reality, then I would have no problem playing Gaelic games or being a member of the GAA.
There is no restriction or hinderence about it. Most definitely nothing political.
I think when people (including myself) voted a couple of years ago to get rid of those articles in the Irish constitution to pave the way for the GFA progressive steps, it showed that such noted 'articles' were of no consequence.
I know that some republicans were annoyed by this, but in the progression towards the re-unification they didnt matter.
This 'aim' in the GAA 'rules' (though I think they are the flimsiest example of rules I have ever witnessed) is the same. Irrelevant to normal practice and everyday life/application of what actually goes on.
Anyhow your attempt to assign the GAA to being a political entity has been well and truely 'myth busted'.
I would have
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
Answer my question please!
to repeat my pm response to yours
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 12:36:49 PM
Are you slow.
Therefore it does not exist in reality ?
It exists it's in the rule book but you could say that while there is consequence for not following it in the rule book in reality the rule is not enforced.
Which is why you cannot give examples ?
I can't give examples of something was isn't implemented now can I? That is kind of the definition of not implemented .Its really is implied by the usage of implemented.
verb (used with object)
4. to fulfill; perform; carry out: Once in office, he failed to implement his campaign promises.
5. to put into effect according to or by means of a definite plan or procedure.
Is this correct and what your answer constitutes?
Yes that's what it constitutes
your uneducated jibes about me being slow are somewhat ironic. Not much of a 'debater' are you.
So you agree that this rule while written effectively does not exist and therefore there is nothing actually pursued in the course of a political interest.
This means the GAA do not have a poliical agenda.
the GAA are not a political organisation as you tried (and failed) to make out in your initial foolish post. So the GAA are not the same as the ifa in that regard.
As you have made this silly correlation previously, I now hope that you understand an no longer attempt to incorrectly label the GAA as a political organisation in future.
Now it wasnt that hard was it.
Since you refuse to answer the question. I assume your answer is no you would not join an organisation with the aim I outlined thus proving my point.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
Answer my question please!
to repeat my pm response to yours
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 12:36:49 PM
Are you slow.
Therefore it does not exist in reality ?
It exists it's in the rule book but you could say that while there is consequence for not following it in the rule book in reality the rule is not enforced.
Which is why you cannot give examples ?
I can't give examples of something was isn't implemented now can I? That is kind of the definition of not implemented .Its really is implied by the usage of implemented.
verb (used with object)
4. to fulfill; perform; carry out: Once in office, he failed to implement his campaign promises.
5. to put into effect according to or by means of a definite plan or procedure.
Is this correct and what your answer constitutes?
Yes that's what it constitutes
your uneducated jibes about me being slow are somewhat ironic. Not much of a 'debater' are you.
So you agree that this rule while written effectively does not exist and therefore there is nothing actually pursued in the course of a political interest.
This means the GAA do not have a poliical agenda.
the GAA are not a political organisation as you tried (and failed) to make out in your initial foolish post. So the GAA are not the same as the ifa in that regard.
As you have made this silly correlation previously, I now hope that you understand an no longer attempt to incorrectly label the GAA as a political organisation in future.
Now it wasnt that hard was it.
Since you refuse to answer the question. I assume your answer is no you would not join an organisation with the aim I outlined thus proving my point.
the only point you consistently prove on here is that you cannot write or also read as it now appears.
think you have missed the entire post above giving you an answer that I said I would once you eventually got around to answering mine.
GAA aint political. You have failed in your attempt again to prove that it is.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 01:35:39 PM
the answer to your question, if the reverse was true and if the wording was changed from Ireland to six counties - with the same 'enforcement' (or complete lack of) and no notion of this being true in reality, then I would have no problem playing Gaelic games or being a member of the GAA.
There is no restriction or hinderence about it. Most definitely nothing political.
I think when people (including myself) voted a couple of years ago to get rid of those articles in the Irish constitution to pave the way for the GFA progressive steps, it showed that such noted 'articles' were of no consequence.
I know that some republicans were annoyed by this, but in the progression towards the re-unification they didnt matter.
This 'aim' in the GAA 'rules' (though I think they are the flimsiest example of rules I have ever witnessed) is the same. Irrelevant to normal practice and everyday life/application of what actually goes on.
Anyhow your attempt to assign the GAA to being a political entity has been well and truely 'myth busted'.
I would have
Fair play to you because I wouldn't . Do you think your Uncle Kev would of ? I very much doubt it
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
So if you were 'unaware' that it was against the rules of football to headbutt someone, you would argue that the ref couldn't send you off because its not really a rule?
Just because you are ignorant of something does not mean it doesn't exist.
This really is too complicated for you.
"To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement". Yes it is, because it is a narrow version of the national identity, and in the context of the 6 is most explicitly a political statement.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
to repeat my pm response to yours
Surely not posting a PM on the board?! :o
Did you not lecture me not so long ago on internet etiquette?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 16, 2009, 09:45:28 AM
on most boards you get banned for posting contents (part or all) of PM's
not sure what it is here,
but apart from that its just plain bad manners
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
GAA Official Guide...Rule 16..."The National Flag should be displayed at all matches". However there is no penalty for "non-display". So there is a rule but there is no sanction for "breaking" that rule. The rules of the GAA don't mention an anthem at all.
Rule 15 http://www.gaa.ie/files/official_guides/official_guide1_june10.pdf in the 2008 guide . 500 fine.
4. (d) anti-competitive and would go against EU law. Cannot be enforced.
11. Amateur status - no pay. Def Not enforced.
14. Anti doping - how is this enforced?
15. National Flag- with some 12 games played so far this season and not a
flag flown at any of them - do I owe the GAA €600
17. There are mentors/managers who are not 'paid up' members of clubs.
20. allegience - what the hell is that rubbish about.No metrics and no enforcement.
I stopped reading it after this, too many flakey un-enforceable rules.
another example - Sure the GAA rules on suspensions have been challenged on many occasions in the
courts and the GAA have usually lost.
So many rules not enforced or are un-enforceable.
Anyhow , Answer the question I put to you.
The GAA's ability to enforce its own rulebook is not the issue here.
The point is you have denied there was a rule, you were shown it in black and white and now are off on a tangent that becauset the rule is currently not enforced, its not a rule.
Gnevin asked you before. Would you join the GAA if the 'unenforced' aim was to preserve British rule in the North?
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
Answer my question please!
This time I'm right...its definitely "in a 32 county Ireland" (and there are a total of 32 counties however you break them down). Actually we're quoting out of context here as the aim says "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland
through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes
" I think the last bit is signficant. It's not through political methods but simply playing games etc ;)
I don't know how I blundered in here and I'm not entering the substantive debate because I don't know (or care) enough about the IFA or soccer or OWC or their "flegs" (WTF are flegs?) to have an informed opinion and I haven't the interest to travel the distance required to be offended. Though generally the principle that if Fearon says it, it's nonsense has served me well.
Anyway, a few questions:
- Does the fact that the IRFU organises rugby on a 32-county Ireland basis make it a political organisation? Is it simply the fact that it does this without explicitly referring to it in a constitution that absolves it from allegations of political posturing? Why does nobody take the IRFU to task for taking an overtly political stance in provocatively organising its activities on a 32-county basis?
- To those who argue that the stated aim of the GAA of strengthening the national identity in a 32-county Ireland is irrelevant, as it's not enforced – would your attitude extend to voting for the removal of this irrelevancy from the constitution? Same for the requirement that the flag be flown?
- And to those who argue that these provisions in the Official Guide are the barrier to their participation in Gaelic Games or at least justify their accusations that the GAA is officially sectarian – would the removal of these clauses inspire you to take up football or hurling or at least cause you to cease making allegations of sectarianism?
Quotewould the removal of these clauses inspire you to take up football or hurling
course not, nor would removing GSTQ etc would cause all those who complain about them with NI to suddenly start supporting NI.
to gnevin and maguire - if you don't like the GAA why do you bother being members of the organisation(or interested)? You wouldnt be missed
Back to point, the ifa dont seem to do a whole lot to stop sectarian behaviour within their ranks. you've seen the efforts being made in glasgow to stop certain behaviors, surely its about time the ifa brought their supporters clubs into line unless they actually dont mind what goes on.
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
to gnevin and maguire - if you don't like the GAA why do you bother being members of the organisation(or interested)? You wouldnt be missed
Ah yes - the welcoming inclusiveness is heartwarming. Conform to my vision of the GAA or get out. Argue against the requirement for the Irish flag to be flown and you're arguing for the flying of the Union Jack. Present proposals for a change of rule and you "don't like the GAA" and should leave.
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
to gnevin and maguire - if you don't like the GAA why do you bother being members of the organisation(or interested)? You wouldnt be missed
Back to point, the ifa dont seem to do a whole lot to stop sectarian behaviour within their ranks. you've seen the efforts being made in glasgow to stop certain behaviors, surely its about time the ifa brought their supporters clubs into line unless they actually dont mind what goes on.
That is a truely pathetic, boderline fascistic, attitude to have.
Quote from: Hardy on August 12, 2009, 02:45:55 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
to gnevin and maguire - if you don't like the GAA why do you bother being members of the organisation(or interested)? You wouldnt be missed
Ah yes - the welcoming inclusiveness is heartwarming. Conform to my vision of the GAA or get out. Argue against the requirement for the Irish flag to be flown and you're arguing for the flying of the Union Jack. Present proposals for a change of rule and you "don't like the GAA" and should leave.
I was enquiring what their real beef is with the GAA and why it offends them so much.
Quote from: nifan on August 12, 2009, 02:41:10 PM
Quotewould the removal of these clauses inspire you to take up football or hurling
course not, nor would removing GSTQ etc would cause all those who complain about them with NI to suddenly start supporting NI.
And therein lies the nub of the matter in two posts. Those that don't want to support the Northern Ireland soccer team won't and those who don't want to support their local GAA team won't.
They can gleefully comment on flags outside a supporters club, or parse the phrasing of the GAA rule book, comment on anthems at soccer matches or hold up the activities of particular GAA clubs as emblematic of the thousands of other clubs etc..etc. etc.
At the end of the day I see little to suggest from any of the protaganists to believe that any of the "issues" raised here are anything other than retrospective-type justification of beliefs/dislikes they have long held for much differing reasons.
In this case "equalisation" across the board!
/Jim.
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
to gnevin and maguire - if you don't like the GAA why do you bother being members of the organisation(or interested)? You wouldnt be missed
When did I say I didn't like the GAA? Or imply this?
And i'm sure the Association would be honoured to have you as its spokesperson.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
to gnevin and maguire - if you don't like the GAA why do you bother being members of the organisation(or interested)? You wouldnt be missed
When did I say I didn't like the GAA? Or imply this?
And i'm sure the Association would be honoured to have you as its spokesperson.
I'll hopefully make president someday. That'll get a few of you jumping.
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 12, 2009, 02:45:55 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:42:12 PM
to gnevin and maguire - if you don't like the GAA why do you bother being members of the organisation(or interested)? You wouldnt be missed
Ah yes - the welcoming inclusiveness is heartwarming. Conform to my vision of the GAA or get out. Argue against the requirement for the Irish flag to be flown and you're arguing for the flying of the Union Jack. Present proposals for a change of rule and you "don't like the GAA" and should leave.
I was enquiring what their real beef is with the GAA and why it offends them so much.
What "real beef" with the GAA are you talking about? And what makes you think i'm offended?
Is it off-limits to critically disuss such aspects of the Association on a GAA discussion board?
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:54:25 PM
I'll hopefully make president someday. That'll get a few of you jumping.
What are you going to do? Stage a coup?
Quote from: deiseach on August 12, 2009, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:54:25 PM
I'll hopefully make president someday. That'll get a few of you jumping.
What are you going to do? Stage a coup?
I suspect it's more sinister than that. I think we're looking at a full scale mobilisation of the Wolfe Tones faction.
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:50:18 PM
I was enquiring what their real beef is with the GAA and why it offends them so much.
Who is offended?
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 02:55:35 PM
Is it off-limits to critically disuss such aspects of the Association on a GAA discussion board?
Part of the problem is that once trolls get involved, the wagons are circled. It'd be nice if members of the GAA could have a robust conversation amongst themselves about it. I suppose that's one of the functions of clubs.
Ignoe the inane rantings of Hardy but give him credit for admitting he knows nothing about which he is pontificating. This is indeed a first, but if only he could be made to realise that this could be legitimately applied to all his postings regardless of the subject.
Now back to the core point, and I fully appreciate how those in Dublin or elsewhere in the 26 counties may not fully appreciate the nuances of what may appear to be a quite innocuous gripe.
The IFA is charged (due to its unwillingness to merge with the other Football Association on this island) with the sole aim of promoting and developing soccer in the 6 counties. Soccer is a global sport (unlike the relatively small indigenous GAA which is charged with promoting all aspects of gaelic culture including games). The six counties contains a deeply polarised community. Many catholic players have had their careers prematurely ended due to sectarian abuse, death threats from their own so called fans. Derry City, the most talented team currently in the six counties were forced out of the domestic league,as were Belfast Celtic before them and now choose to play in the Eircom League.The IFA, as if it didn't have enough in its sordid past,to be ashamed about, continues to use the symbols anthems etc of one part of that polarised community only, thus allowing this part of the community to use games to give expression to their political triumphalism (extending to adding the words "No Surrender" to their National Anthem etc) inevitably alienates the other section of the community and defeats the (supposed) raison d'etre of the IFA in that far from promoting soccer in this locality it is actually hindering it.
To that, add the constant bleating about how we've defeated sectarianism, we are the best fans in the Solar System, our members get OBEs for their work in the area of reconciliation then drive past what is arguably the North of Ireland's most prominent and high profile Supporters Clib in Belfast City Centre and see it festooned like an Orange Hall, and not feel angry. Go on I challenge you
Quote from: Hardy on August 12, 2009, 02:57:29 PM
I suspect it's more sinister than that. I think we're looking at a full scale mobilisation of the Wolfe Tones faction.
Ah, but which faction?
Quote from: carribbear on August 12, 2009, 02:54:25 PM
I'll hopefully make president someday. That'll get a few of you jumping.
(http://intepid.com/res/417.gif)
Quote from: deiseach on August 12, 2009, 02:58:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 12, 2009, 02:57:29 PM
I suspect it's more sinister than that. I think we're looking at a full scale mobilisation of the Wolfe Tones faction.
Ah, but which faction?
Good point - maybe we're seeing the first example of a movement already pre-split in anticipation of the inevitable.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 02:58:27 PM
To that, add the constant bleating about how we've defeated sectarianism, we are the best fans in the Solar System, our members get OBEs for their work in the area of reconciliation then drive past what is arguably the North of Ireland's most prominent and high profile Supporters Clib in Belfast City Centre and see it festooned like an Orange Hall, and not feel angry. Go on I challenge you
That's not much of a challenge. If something like that gets your blood boiling, then you're clearly very lucky that you have so few worries in life.
Well it didn't exactly cause my blood to boil, or even warm to the point of being tepid, but it is offensive all the same and worth pointing out the hypocrisy/ arrogance
Its ridiculous that the crux of your argument is that the IFAs use of symbols is bad because its a worldwide sport, but the use of the GAAs counter symbols isnt because its not as big worldwide.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 03:08:10 PM
Well it didn't exactly cause my blood to boil, or even warm to the point of being tepid, but it is offensive all the same and worth pointing out the hypocrisy/ arrogance
Well it caused you to feel "angry". And it didn't even get a 'thumbs down' - it got the full angry man smiley treatment!
As for being offensive...
Quote from: nifan on August 12, 2009, 03:09:52 PM
Its ridiculous that the crux of your argument is that the IFAs use of symbols is bad because its a worldwide sport, but the use of the GAAs counter symbols isnt because its not as big worldwide.
Not half as ridiculous as trying to engage with Fearon ;)
Quote from: nifan on August 12, 2009, 03:09:52 PM
Its ridiculous that the crux of your argument is that the IFAs use of symbols is bad because its a worldwide sport, but the use of the GAAs counter symbols isnt because its not as big worldwide.
I'm trying to figure out is it the partisan and tribal nature of sport he objects to, or just the tribe that the IFA XI traditionally attract.
NIFan
Things you won't see at GAA Games
Additions being made to the National Anthem (eg Tiocfaidh Ar La)
Any display of Politicial Triumphalism or indeed political assertiveness at all.
Now can you honestly deny this is a feature of games at Windsor Park.
The reason I don't follow the North of Ireland team (I have been to many of their games and possibly will be to some more) is that I do not want to be reminded, in my face, at a sporting occasion that I am living under British Rule, or see my neighbour triumphalanty asserting this point.
This does not happen at any GAA activity.
Dublinfella, I object to the fact that the IFA have hijacked soccer ( a sport I have loved and have watched in many different countries) and allowed it (as best) or encouraged it (at worst) to be used as a means of political expression or allowing one side of the community to assert its triumphalism over the other.
PS I am not alone in this. The IFA attracts negligible support from catholics and as I've said here my views on it are quite liberal. I could present many soccer fans here from my community who have never set foot in Windsor Park and wouldn't to save their lives.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 03:19:35 PM
I could present many soccer fans here from my community who have never set foot in Windsor Park and wouldn't to save their lives.
Their lives would probably be in danger if they did set foot in that sectarian cesspit.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 03:15:40 PM
The reason I don't follow the North of Ireland team (I have been to many of their games and possibly will be to some more) is that I do not want to be reminded, in my face, at a sporting occasion that I am living under British Rule, or see my neighbour triumphalanty asserting this point.
This does not happen at any GAA activity.
Eh, but surely if a Northern Protestant / a Unionist went to a GAA match in the north where the tricolour was on display and the anthem played... well that's basically saying 'in their face' and 'at a sporting occasion' that we should be living under Irish rule, and then we, as GAA fans and their neighbours, could be accused of 'triumphantly asserting this point'.
I'm merely playing devil's advocate here, but you have to look at these things from both sides surely(?)
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 03:28:58 PMyou have to look at these things from both sides surely(?)
Where did you ever get such a ridiculous idea?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 03:15:40 PM
NIFan
Things you won't see at GAA Games
Additions being made to the National Anthem (eg Tiocfaidh Ar La)
Any display of Politicial Triumphalism or indeed political assertiveness at all.Now can you honestly deny this is a feature of games at Windsor Park.
The reason I don't follow the North of Ireland team (I have been to many of their games and possibly will be to some more) is that I do not want to be reminded, in my face, at a sporting occasion that I am living under British Rule, or see my neighbour triumphalanty asserting this point.
This does not happen at any GAA activity.
No, but it happens at international football all over the world.
You don't like the 6 county state and are bashing the IFA for being its football representitive. Why not go to the source?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 03:19:35 PM
Dublinfella, I object to the fact that the IFA have hijacked soccer ( a sport I have loved and have watched in many different countries) and allowed it (as best) or encouraged it (at worst) to be used as a means of political expression or allowing one side of the community to assert its triumphalism over the other.
PS I am not alone in this. The IFA attracts negligible support from catholics and as I've said here my views on it are quite liberal. I could present many soccer fans here from my community who have never set foot in Windsor Park and wouldn't to save their lives.
International football is political and triumphalist. Thats life.
Nationalists are alienated from the whole idea of the team. The IFA are irrelevent in a bigger issue.
The point here is you getting all hot and bothered because people fly flags at (or around) sport you don't like.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 12, 2009, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 01:27:28 PM
to repeat my pm response to yours
Surely not posting a PM on the board?! :o
Did you not lecture me not so long ago on internet etiquette?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 16, 2009, 09:45:28 AM
on most boards you get banned for posting contents (part or all) of PM's
not sure what it is here,
but apart from that its just plain bad manners
absolutely , but it was pointed out that it wasnt on this board - and as it wasnt contentious and I didnt want to have to write it out again I simply cut and pasted.
But lazy and somewhat hyprocritical yes - though dont know why he took it to pm in the first place !
It was against internet ettiquette, but I couldnt be arsed , esp with the insults being thrown at me by the modern day pudsy ryan.
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 01:35:39 PM
the answer to your question, if the reverse was true and if the wording was changed from Ireland to six counties - with the same 'enforcement' (or complete lack of) and no notion of this being true in reality, then I would have no problem playing Gaelic games or being a member of the GAA.
There is no restriction or hinderence about it. Most definitely nothing political.
I think when people (including myself) voted a couple of years ago to get rid of those articles in the Irish constitution to pave the way for the GFA progressive steps, it showed that such noted 'articles' were of no consequence.
I know that some republicans were annoyed by this, but in the progression towards the re-unification they didnt matter.
This 'aim' in the GAA 'rules' (though I think they are the flimsiest example of rules I have ever witnessed) is the same. Irrelevant to normal practice and everyday life/application of what actually goes on.
Anyhow your attempt to assign the GAA to being a political entity has been well and truely 'myth busted'.
I would have
Fair play to you because I wouldn't . Do you think your Uncle Kev would of ? I very much doubt it
then again you show your lack of knowledge on such things.
I cant see why you wouldnt when there is no real consequence of doing it.
Dont judge people by your own low standards.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 12, 2009, 01:54:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 12, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
it is exactly the issue. The rule 'exixts' in the 'rulebook' but its a 'rule' that I have never heard of or seen implemented. It and the other examples I have given, and undoubtedly there are more if you went into it - indicate that while they are written, they effectively do not exist.
As well as that there is the 'rule' that the GAA is non political/non sectarian.
I'll even help gnevin with his answer, that his interpretation of the rule he is mentioning is incorrect - it is not a political aim.
To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement. It is a desire to improve Irish culture/Gaelic games.
no insults from you this time roversfella - are you not well ?
I still await his examples.
So if you were 'unaware' that it was against the rules of football to headbutt someone, you would argue that the ref couldn't send you off because its not really a rule?
Just because you are ignorant of something does not mean it doesn't exist.
This really is too complicated for you.
"To improve the national identity IN a 32 county Ireland is not a political statement". Yes it is, because it is a narrow version of the national identity, and in the context of the 6 is most explicitly a political statement.
thats 'striking'
and as usual not much of a comeback/excuse/argument from you.
next...
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 02:20:51 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
QuoteThis time I'm right...its definitely "in a 32 county Ireland" (and there are a total of 32 counties however you break them down). Actually we're quoting out of context here as the aim says "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes" I think the last bit is signficant. It's not through political methods but simply playing games etc ;)
Has that registered on planet Gnevin yet?
It's national identity
IN a 32 county Ireland.
National identity is non political and certainly the promotion of gaelic sports is non political.
Sean O'Riada had very strong opinions about strenghtening our sense of national identity through classical traditional compositions.
Maybe the the Chieftains had the same ideals.
National identity in the GAA context and in those cultural contexts is not a political concept.
Dublinfella, while I accept that football is used in various parts of the world to trumpet political allegiances this is invariably between rival nations, eg Palestine and Israel, Holland and Germany, Poland and Germany.
However in the North of Ireland the governing association has (at the very best) allowed one section of the community to use its international team as a vehicle to give vent to their political beliefs at the expense of another part of the community when it is supposed to be promoting football for all of its constituent community without fear or favour.
It is my firm belief that if the IFA were to ditch the exclsuively unionist symbols and operate in a neutral environment,the following would happen
Hardline unionists would not latch on to the team or use games to give vent to their political allegiances
Cross community support for the team would increase dramatically.
Whereas I myself could not support the team I would readily acknowledge that the IFA was genuinely doing all it can to eradicate sectarianism, was operating neutrally in a polarised society, and I would thus have no grounds whatsoever to level criticism, and while saddened that there cannot be one association promoting soccer across a relatively samll island, I could wish the IFA its team and supporters well.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 04:43:04 PM
Whereas I myself could not support the team I would readily acknowledge that the IFA was genuinely doing all it can to eradicate sectarianism, was operating neutrally in a polarised society, and I would thus have no grounds whatsoever to level criticism, and while saddened that there cannot be one association promoting soccer across a relatively samll island, I could wish the IFA its team and supporters well.
What would you do with all that free time?
:P
The likes of Hardy and Dublinfella's hypotheses would be mildly accurate if you accept the old mantra that "Ulster is British, and as British as Finchley". The Good Friday Agreement proved otherwise, and acknowledged for the first time that there are two major communities each with separate identities and allegiances, and both are equally legitimate and worthy of respect"
Now when the IFA gets this message and acts accordingly, significant progress will be made.
16 pages of drivel on a nonsense issue contrived by a blinkered idiot (that's you Tone, in case you're puzzled).
Quote from: T Fearon on August 12, 2009, 05:01:37 PM
The likes of Hardy and Dublinfella's hypotheses would be mildly accurate if you accept the old mantra that "Ulster is British, and as British as Finchley". The Good Friday Agreement proved otherwise, and acknowledged for the first time that there are two major communities each with separate identities and allegiances, and both are equally legitimate and worthy of respect"
Now when the IFA gets this message and acts accordingly, significant progress will be made.
Hold on there, horse. I stated no hypothesis on the substantive issue - to the extent that there is any substance in your tribalistic spouting. I only asked a few questions (to which I've had very few answers. Maybe they're too hard).
And if I had a hypothesis, it wouldn't be shared with roversfella.
Quote from: Main Street on August 12, 2009, 04:07:08 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 12, 2009, 02:20:51 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on August 12, 2009, 01:12:11 PM
First of all the aim is the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland not IN a
It's a political aim as the 32 county Ireland is a well known political statement.
To improve the national identity on the island of Ireland would be non political
QuoteThis time I'm right...its definitely "in a 32 county Ireland" (and there are a total of 32 counties however you break them down). Actually we're quoting out of context here as the aim says "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes" I think the last bit is signficant. It's not through political methods but simply playing games etc ;)
Has that registered on planet Gnevin yet?
It's national identity IN a 32 county Ireland.
National identity is non political and certainly the promotion of gaelic sports is non political.
Sean O'Riada had very strong opinions about strenghtening our sense of national identity through classical traditional compositions.
Maybe the the Chieftains had the same ideals.
National identity in the GAA context and in those cultural contexts is not a political concept.
Was looking at GAA wiki page which incorrectly referenced the 2003 guide. I stand corrected , its "in" not "of a".
Sorry for any confusion there lads
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 12, 2009, 05:13:59 PM
16 pages of drivel on a nonsense issue contrived by a blinkered idiot (that's you Tone, in case you're puzzled).
Tosser. With the boards agreement!
So please tell me why the South Belfast Emerald North of Ireland Supporters Club flew the "Faugh na Ballagh" British ARMY flag outside there establishment? Hardly inviting and hardly soccer! :o
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 13, 2009, 01:18:27 AM
So please tell me why the South Belfast Emerald North of Ireland Supporters Club flew the "Faugh na Ballagh" British ARMY flag outside there establishment? Hardly inviting and hardly soccer! :o
Only noticed that last night because of this thread. The regimental flag and Scottish saltire are both being flown. No idea why. Possibly a member returning from Afghan? Maybe they are hosting a large contingent of Scots over this period? To be honest I've been supporting NI for too long to remember and have used many bars in Belfast before and after games and I have never been in the SBNISC. Seems odd to me flying the Scottish flag but I suppose that's up to them. Private clubs can fly whatever they like as long as it's not illegal.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 13, 2009, 01:18:27 AM
t**ser. With the boards agreement!
So please tell me why the South Belfast Emerald North of Ireland Supporters Club flew the "Faugh na Ballagh" British ARMY flag outside there establishment? Hardly inviting and hardly soccer! :o
I answered this about 4 pages ago. Because its a loyalist bar. ???
But according to North of Ireland supporters they are completely, utter,irrefutably,non sectarian, a claim which I insist is garbage. It is taken you umpteen pages, and insulting practically every other poster, to finally accept the point I was making is correct.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 13, 2009, 02:09:50 PM
But according to North of Ireland supporters they are completely, utter,irrefutably,non sectarian, a claim which I insist is garbage. It is taken you umpteen pages, and insulting practically every other poster, to finally accept the point I was making is correct.
No one has ever, to my knowledge claimed that all is perfect with the NI supporters. I certainly wouldnt. But we arent all the sectarian bigots some (including you) would make us out to be. And we are trying, and succeeding, to improve.
And you certainly haven't come close to eradicating sectarianism either, which is what is generally claimed.
I am gratified that my original post which was nothing more nor less than pointing out that the North of Ireland's most prominent supporters club is festooned with union/orange/loyalist regalia, and thus how can they continue with the ridiculous claim that they are not sectarian, has proved to be right
Quote from: T Fearon on August 13, 2009, 02:09:50 PM
But according to North of Ireland supporters they are completely, utter,irrefutably,non sectarian, a claim which I insist is garbage. It is taken you umpteen pages, and insulting practically every other poster, to finally accept the point I was making is correct.
So if I go down the Gallowgate and find a flag flying in a pub thats sectarian, I can call all Cetic supporters bigots?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 13, 2009, 02:29:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 13, 2009, 02:09:50 PM
But according to North of Ireland supporters they are completely, utter,irrefutably,non sectarian, a claim which I insist is garbage. It is taken you umpteen pages, and insulting practically every other poster, to finally accept the point I was making is correct.
So if I go down the Gallowgate and find a flag flying in a pub thats sectarian, I can call all Cetic supporters bigots?
whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?
plus thats a heck of a shift in the goalposts
from a political problem like the north of Ireland soccer side to a club side !
hardly like for like !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 13, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?
plus thats a heck of a shift in the goalposts
from a political problem like the north of Ireland soccer side to a club side !
hardly like for like !
I'm asking is it a general rule that the decorations of a private supporters bar can be taken as a proxy for the association/team that they support.
In the context of the North of ireland yes, where flags are used to simply mark out territory. Now as i said before this would all be ok if the IFA and their supporters would openly admit that they are there to cater for unionists only, to show the world that this statelet must be a "country" because it has an international football team etc,instead of constantly bleating on about how they are non sectarian etc.
Celtic supporters generally use the Irish tricolour in homage to the club's founding fathers (who were practially all Irish) and the tricolour represents peace and equality between Orange and Green and in no objective manner is it sectarian. Celtic also had their players wearing poppies on their jersies last year against Motherwell incurring the wrath of many of their own fans, to prove their inclusivity and go the extra mile. It is when the IFA and its supporters show similar courage and magnanimity that they can expect to receive acknowledgement from me.
QuoteIn the context of the North of ireland yes, where flags are used to simply mark out territory.
You state this, but then state that the tricolour is in no way sectarian. It is used by one section of the community, to mark out its territory, It is not flown in these cases to show "peace between the two"
I dont think the tricolour is sectarian, but its use often is - similar to the UJ and NI flag.
Your double standards are on display yet again though - also in the bit about the poppy. Any action or move taken by NI or the fans you belittle, yet fawn over a similar move by celtic.
Name me one piece of postive action the ifa or its fans have taken to widen the support base for their team.
Hnaging up Give Sectarianism the Boot banners doesn't count.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 13, 2009, 04:07:22 PM
Name me one piece of postive action the ifa or its fans have taken to widen the support base for their team.
Hnaging up Give Sectarianism the Boot banners doesn't count.
Alienated you?
The fact that the IFA invited Israhell to play a friendly speaks volumes for their bigotry and racism.
Israhell is a murderous, racist aparthied state. Fact.
Now how can the IFA invite them for a friendly and at the same time shout about their
"Sport For All, and Give Racism The Red Card" ideals?
In my books, they are just as bad as Israhell for inviting them in the 1st place.
The IFA has once again shown their bigotry and racism.
Sport For All my hole.......................
Even worse than that, a lot of North of Ireland supporters actively showed their support for the Israeli regime by flying Israeli flags at the game.
I used to work with a nutter who siad in all honesty that he didn't know who to support in 1981 when the North of Ireland played Israel in a World Cup qualifier. Apparently he and many other unionists firmly believe they were descendants of a lost Israeli tribe, so as he said he didn't know whether to support his fellow countrymen or brothers. :o
Quote from: T Fearon on August 13, 2009, 03:31:00 PM
In the context of the North of ireland yes, where flags are used to simply mark out territory. Now as i said before this would all be ok if the IFA and their supporters would openly admit that they are there to cater for unionists only, to show the world that this statelet must be a "country" because it has an international football team etc,instead of constantly bleating on about how they are non sectarian etc.
Celtic supporters generally use the Irish tricolour in homage to the club's founding fathers (who were practially all Irish) and the tricolour represents peace and equality between Orange and Green and in no objective manner is it sectarian. Celtic also had their players wearing poppies on their jersies last year against Motherwell incurring the wrath of many of their own fans, to prove their inclusivity and go the extra mile. It is when the IFA and its supporters show similar courage and magnanimity that they can expect to receive acknowledgement from me.
Celtic supporters being left behind by the club Tony. I'd worry about getting your own house in order first before lecturing others.
Quote from: give her dixie on August 13, 2009, 04:36:36 PM
The fact that the IFA invited Israhell to play a friendly speaks volumes for their bigotry and racism.
Israhell is a murderous, racist aparthied state. Fact.
Now how can the IFA invite them for a friendly and at the same time shout about their
"Sport For All, and Give Racism The Red Card" ideals?
In my books, they are just as bad as Israhell for inviting them in the 1st place.
The IFA has once again shown their bigotry and racism.
Sport For All my hole.......................
The mask slips Dixie. Are you calling the FAI bigoted and racisist because they have, in the past hosted this 'murderous, racist aparthied state? Are you labelling every other Association for inviting Israel for a friendly international the same?
Chrisowc, given that Israhell have the worst human rights record of any country playing int. football,
I firmly believe that NO ONE should be playing them in a "friendly".
They are a murderous, racist, and apartied state who murder innocent children and women for fun.
They should be boycotted at all levels including arts, sports, commerce, etc,etc,etc.
They are worse than the apartied regime that once operated in South Africa.
Remember how the world boycotted South Africa at all levels?
When a state like Israhell refuses to allow the the national team of Palestine a chance to train, play
in competitive matches, refuse to allow footballs into Palestine, murder in cold blood their players,
bomb their soccer grounds, etc, etc, etc, then they shouldn't be invited anywhere......
Shame on the IFA for inviting the murderous state of Israhell to play in a "friendly"
Shame on them for their double standards of "Sport For All, and Give Racism The Red Card"
By inviting Israhell to play, they are supporting Racism and Bigotry.
The biggest joke on Wednesday night was seeing NI supporters in the green jersys, and waving Israhell flags!!!!
Where else in the world would you get it??????
The IFA is a racist sectarian and bigoted organisation for inviting the murderous state of Israhell to play.
And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.
What is wrong with a private members club being made of mainly of those from the loyalist community??? I'm proud to be a loyalist and there is nothing sectarian about it. I think it is a bit strange for a NISC to be flying a Scottish flag though although I really don't give a shite about the SBNISC's bar as I have never been in it and they can legally fly the flags that they have. If people don't like the flags or location or whatever then don't go in there. I don't go in. The SBNISC does not represent the IFA. There is a Linfield NISC and a Glentoran NISC and they fly flags that represent those clubs and it doesn't stop supporters of say Portadown off from supporting NI. These identity issues with private social clubs are up to them and Tony is being a bit precious about them and ridiculously feigning offense and then blowing the whole thing out of proportion because he simply doesn't like that there is a NI team and he is a raving bigot who obsessively spins propaganda against the IFA. The SBNISC were clever enough to buy a run down shack of a dump in the 70s or 80s when you couldn't give away premises in that row of buildings due to the troubles and now these guys have a license and clubhouse in a very prominent location but they do not represent all NI supporters or the IFA.
There's nothing sectarian about being a loyalist? Er, explain...
Quote from: Roger on August 13, 2009, 05:31:09 PM
What is wrong with a private members club being made of mainly of those from the loyalist community???
I would say...absolutely nothing...neither is there anything wrong with a membership based sporting and cultural association being made of people mainly from the nationalist community. Not saying you have a problem with this Roger but some people on the board do.
Quote from: red hander on August 13, 2009, 05:40:27 PM
There's nothing sectarian about being a loyalist? Er, explain...
There is nothing sectarian in a bad way about being a loyalist.
By definition we are all sectarian, I suppose, if we identify ourselves as being from a section of the community, and therefore in such a manner there is nothing wrong with being sectarian. It is intolerance of others from a different section of the community that makes the definition of sectarianism a derogatory term. Sometimes this would be termed as sectarian bigotry. There is only one person on this thread that is displaying that.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on August 13, 2009, 05:56:54 PM
Quote from: Roger on August 13, 2009, 05:31:09 PM
What is wrong with a private members club being made of mainly of those from the loyalist community???
I would say...absolutely nothing...neither is there anything wrong with a membership based sporting and cultural association being made of people mainly from the nationalist community. Not saying you have a problem with this Roger but some people on the board do.
I don't have any problem whatsoever with any organisation being predominantly made up from one community or the other.
Quote from: Roger on August 13, 2009, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: red hander on August 13, 2009, 05:40:27 PM
There's nothing sectarian about being a loyalist? Er, explain...
There is nothing sectarian in a bad way about being a loyalist.
By definition we are all sectarian, I suppose, if we identify ourselves as being from a section of the community, and therefore in such a manner there is nothing wrong with being sectarian. It is intolerance of others from a different section of the community that makes the definition of sectarianism a derogatory term. Sometimes this would be termed as sectarian bigotry. There is only one person on this thread that is displaying that.
Who?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 13, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?
(http://shaide.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/ira-flag.jpg)
I find it rather ironic, though by no means surprising, that Fearon can castigate the supporters of one team for flying flags which he finds objectionable, but doesn't mind supporting another team himself, some of whose supporters go out of their way to get their own (ahem) provocative flags professionally printed.
Quote from: give her dixie on August 13, 2009, 05:23:57 PM
The IFA is a racist sectarian and bigoted organisation for inviting the murderous state of Israhell to play.
And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.
I trust you are similarly outraged by this "racist sectarian and bigoted organisation" then, too:
http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/matchdetails.php?id=206
http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/matchdetails.php?id=214
http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/matchdetails.php?id=236
Unless, of course, Israhell [
sic] only acquired "the worst human rights record of any country playing international football" in the years since 1987... ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 13, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?
(http://shaide.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/ira-flag.jpg)
I find it rather ironic, though by no means surprising, that Fearon can castigate the supporters of one team for flying flags which he finds objectionable, but doesn't mind supporting another team himself, some of whose supporters go out of their way to get their own (ahem) provocative flags professionally printed.
I have never seen the flag in question at a Celtic bar or a Celtic game. Nor have I seen one at an Ireland game. The games are well stewarded in this regard with the apparent exception of North of Ireland games.
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 13, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?
(http://shaide.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/ira-flag.jpg)
I find it rather ironic, though by no means surprising, that Fearon can castigate the supporters of one team for flying flags which he finds objectionable, but doesn't mind supporting another team himself, some of whose supporters go out of their way to get their own (ahem) provocative flags professionally printed.
I have never seen the flag in question at a Celtic bar or a Celtic game. Nor have I seen one at an Ireland game.
Someone, presumably a Celtic fan, went to the trouble and expense of getting the flag made.
I don't see how it is any different for a Celtic fan to fly that flag, than it is for NI fans in the SBNISC to fly eg the Union Flag, except of course, that the IRA is/was an illegal organisation, whereas the Union Flag is the universally legally recognised flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
The games are well stewarded in this regard with the apparent exception of North of Ireland games.
What similarly provocative flags have you ever seen at a "North of Ireland" [
sic] game?
And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.
Evil, I think my statement covers each and every country that plays a friendly with Israhell.
I make no exceptions at all.
How do the neo-Nazi/C18 branch of the Norn Iron supporters club square the apparent close ties with Israel?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 07:57:53 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 13, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?
(http://shaide.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/ira-flag.jpg)
I find it rather ironic, though by no means surprising, that Fearon can castigate the supporters of one team for flying flags which he finds objectionable, but doesn't mind supporting another team himself, some of whose supporters go out of their way to get their own (ahem) provocative flags professionally printed.
I have never seen the flag in question at a Celtic bar or a Celtic game. Nor have I seen one at an Ireland game.
Someone, presumably a Celtic fan, went to the trouble and expense of getting the flag made.
I don't see how it is any different for a Celtic fan to fly that flag, than it is for NI fans in the SBNISC to fly eg the Union Flag, except of course, that the IRA is/was an illegal organisation, whereas the Union Flag is the universally legally recognised flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
The games are well stewarded in this regard with the apparent exception of North of Ireland games.
What similarly provocative flags have you ever seen at a "North of Ireland" [sic] game?
Firstly I have never seen a Celtic fan fly that flag, and would suggest that it is misleading to put this up in a thread. No more that I can pin the murder of Kevin McDaid on Rangers FC is it morally acceptable to blame Celtic or their fans for that flag being made. In any case, it is a republican flag and not an IRA one because the slogan is republican rather than physical force republican.
See here from the Celtic 'TAL' (guess what it stands for) fanzine:
"When TAL was founded the term 'Tiocfaidh Ar La' (Our Day Will Come) seemed to sum up our hopes for our football club which was going through one of the most barren and trophyless periods of its history. The Irish phrase is one coined by republicans and expresses their desire for freedom and their struggle to establish a united 32 County democratic socialist republic in Ireland."
In this sense it may be a political phrase but it is not one which aids, abets or apologises for terrorists. It has been used by non violent republicans for years as well. Therefore by definition, and given that this phrase in itself is not an excuse for nor a glorification of terrorism, it is merely republican in the same way that the union flag is unionist. Despite this strictly political aspect of the flag, it is not allowed in Celtic games. Why then is the union flag and the (outdated) ulster banner permitted to be brought into what is supposedly a neutral ground?
Quote from: give her dixie on August 13, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.
Evil, I think my statement covers each and every country that plays a friendly with Israhell.
I make no exceptions at all.
Fair enough. And I assume you would say the same about clubs who sign Israeli players like eg Eyal Berkovic? (Btw, I am not assuming you are a Celtic fan, this is more for the benefit of that fearless opponent of prejudice in whatever form it takes, or wherever it resides, Tony Fearon...)
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8045392/175/
"Celtic was a big mistake for me, that's for sure. Celtic never understood me , and I for sure never understood them. It was a club with an image which was full of its own self importance and role in the world. The club was going through a troubled time and when manager John Barnes got the sack, my days there were numbered. It's hard to say this but I feel that I have to point out that Celtic, certainly at that time did not react well to people who they did not consider were 'one of them". I am Jewish and proud of my religion and background, Barnes and Ian Wright felt the same as me, and they were quickly ostracised when results went against us. After one midweek game which we lost, Wright and Barnes were subject to really disgraceful racial abuse in the car park. It was at that point I knew I had to get out. I found it really disconcerting having to play in front of a huge crowd where many fans had PLO flags and celebrated terrorist actions. They were backing an organization which, after all, wanted the destruction of the State of Israel. How could I give one hundred percent for such a club with an ethos like that?
The Celtic Rangers games were utter madness, and I had to remind myself for which club I was playing! I always stood up for the sovereignty of the nation and the right of law. Celtic seemed to be going for the opposite, by supporting terrorist groups from Spain, Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. It was crazy!"
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 13, 2009, 08:06:30 PM
How do the neo-Nazi/C18 branch of the Norn Iron supporters club square the apparent close ties with Israel?
If you can supply me details of this "neo-Nazi/C18 branch of the Norn Iron supporters club", I'm sure I would be happy to supply you with an answer in return.
For I must confess, in my decades of following Norn Iron, I've never come across such an organisation.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 13, 2009, 08:06:30 PM
How do the neo-Nazi/C18 branch of the Norn Iron supporters club square the apparent close ties with Israel?
I dont know of such a branch of the supporters clubs, but i dare say some of the knuckleheads about dont realise that israelis arent prods....
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 13, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.
Evil, I think my statement covers each and every country that plays a friendly with Israhell.
I make no exceptions at all.
Fair enough. And I assume you would say the same about clubs who sign Israeli players like eg Eyal Berkovic? (Btw, I am not assuming you are a Celtic fan, this is more for the benefit of that fearless opponent of prejudice in whatever form it takes, or wherever it resides, Tony Fearon...)
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8045392/175/
"Celtic was a big mistake for me, that's for sure. Celtic never understood me , and I for sure never understood them. It was a club with an image which was full of its own self importance and role in the world. The club was going through a troubled time and when manager John Barnes got the sack, my days there were numbered. It's hard to say this but I feel that I have to point out that Celtic, certainly at that time did not react well to people who they did not consider were 'one of them". I am Jewish and proud of my religion and background, Barnes and Ian Wright felt the same as me, and they were quickly ostracised when results went against us. After one midweek game which we lost, Wright and Barnes were subject to really disgraceful racial abuse in the car park. It was at that point I knew I had to get out. I found it really disconcerting having to play in front of a huge crowd where many fans had PLO flags and celebrated terrorist actions. They were backing an organization which, after all, wanted the destruction of the State of Israel. How could I give one hundred percent for such a club with an ethos like that?
The Celtic Rangers games were utter madness, and I had to remind myself for which club I was playing! I always stood up for the sovereignty of the nation and the right of law. Celtic seemed to be going for the opposite, by supporting terrorist groups from Spain, Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. It was crazy!"
Absolutely nothing to do with the club at all. I'm not shying away from responsibility but if you're going to level racist charges at Celtic because their fans allegedly abused Berkovic, Wright and Barnes then we could be here all day calling the IFA out on the actions of their fans. Considering that Bertie Peacock was captain of Celtic, and that many Protestants played for the club, it's a very strange accusation to level at Celtic to suggest that they, as a club, were discriminating against individuals and 'supporting terrorist groups'. The desire for the 'destruction of Israel' is nowhere to be found in the ethos of Celtic, shockingly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W826we8PQOc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XWeJ6TYMbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Divl_I-pyg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-xYMwfe_Vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQs6jZOqcRE&NR=1
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
Firstly I have never seen a Celtic fan fly that flag, and would suggest that it is misleading to put this up in a thread.
I have never seen Australia, either, but I know it exists. And I'm pretty sure that that flag was designed by and paid for by a Celtic fan. And the reason I included it on here is because the very guy who started this thread states that he could never support the NI team whilst some of its fans carry e.g. Union Flags. Yet he has no difficulty supporting another team with fans who carry a flag like that.
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
No more that I can pin the murder of Kevin McDaid on Rangers FC is it morally acceptable to blame Celtic or their fans for that flag being made.
I did not blame either Celtic FC or their regular fans for that flag being made. Rather, I posted it as an example of the rank hypocrisy of the "Twisted Thread Starter", Fearon (see above).
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
In any case, it is a republican flag and not an IRA one because the slogan is republican rather than physical force republican.
See here from the Celtic 'TAL' (guess what it stands for) fanzine:
"When TAL was founded the term 'Tiocfaidh Ar La' (Our Day Will Come) seemed to sum up our hopes for our football club which was going through one of the most barren and trophyless periods of its history. The Irish phrase is one coined by republicans and expresses their desire for freedom and their struggle to establish a united 32 County democratic socialist republic in Ireland."
Let me see now. Celtic FC condemns anyone which would seek to connect them with an illegal organisation. The IRA is an illegal organisation. TAL seeks to deny any connection between its choice of name and the IRA. Well knock me down with a feather!
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
In this sense it may be a political phrase but it is not one which aids, abets or apologises for terrorists. It has been used by non violent republicans for years as well. Therefore by definition, and given that this phrase in itself is not an excuse for nor a glorification of terrorism, it is merely republican in the same way that the union flag is unionist.
Self-serving semantic bullshit!
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 08:21:48 PMDespite this strictly political aspect of the flag, it is not allowed in Celtic games.
So if the TAL flag is purely "political", why wouldn't Celtic allow it in Parkhead? After all, they allow unadorned Tricolours, which are also purely political.
Unless, of course, Celtic believe that the addition of TAL is a sight more sinister than you are claiming? Still, what would they know about such matters...
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
Why then is the union flag and the (outdated) ulster banner permitted to be brought into what is supposedly a neutral ground?
How is an international football match "neutral"?
Are you really saying that the IFA should prevent NI fans from bringing NI flags to an NI international football match?
What next, Scotland fans to be prevented from bring Scotland flags to Hampden, in case it should deter fans who are not Scottish Nationalists? Or fans of Spain being prevented from waving Spanish flags, in case it should discourage Catalans and Basques?
Indeed, why not go the whole hog and prevent Celtic or ROI fans from bringing simple Tricolours to Parkhead or Thomond, since by your reasoning (above), such flags are political in nature and therefore contrary to a "neutral" political environment.
Barking, simply barking... ::)
P.S. I note you are avoiding answering my question about what similarly provocative flags you have seen NI fans wave at Windsor...
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 13, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.
Evil, I think my statement covers each and every country that plays a friendly with Israhell.
I make no exceptions at all.
Fair enough. And I assume you would say the same about clubs who sign Israeli players like eg Eyal Berkovic? (Btw, I am not assuming you are a Celtic fan, this is more for the benefit of that fearless opponent of prejudice in whatever form it takes, or wherever it resides, Tony Fearon...)
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8045392/175/
"Celtic was a big mistake for me, that's for sure. Celtic never understood me , and I for sure never understood them. It was a club with an image which was full of its own self importance and role in the world. The club was going through a troubled time and when manager John Barnes got the sack, my days there were numbered. It's hard to say this but I feel that I have to point out that Celtic, certainly at that time did not react well to people who they did not consider were 'one of them". I am Jewish and proud of my religion and background, Barnes and Ian Wright felt the same as me, and they were quickly ostracised when results went against us. After one midweek game which we lost, Wright and Barnes were subject to really disgraceful racial abuse in the car park. It was at that point I knew I had to get out. I found it really disconcerting having to play in front of a huge crowd where many fans had PLO flags and celebrated terrorist actions. They were backing an organization which, after all, wanted the destruction of the State of Israel. How could I give one hundred percent for such a club with an ethos like that?
The Celtic Rangers games were utter madness, and I had to remind myself for which club I was playing! I always stood up for the sovereignty of the nation and the right of law. Celtic seemed to be going for the opposite, by supporting terrorist groups from Spain, Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. It was crazy!"
:D :D :D
Hows about read the comments below the thread. Some guy posted this article which was apparently taken from an 'Israeli media source'- funniliy enough no reference to the actual link! I think this is about as true as the Marco Negri "qoutes" from an 'Italian media source'.
You've got slagged on here for copying and pasting chunks of wikipedia but trying to rely on a few paragpraphs which were more than likely typed up by a Rangers fan in his bedroom- truly laughable!
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 08:45:30 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 08:27:03 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on August 13, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.
Evil, I think my statement covers each and every country that plays a friendly with Israhell.
I make no exceptions at all.
Fair enough. And I assume you would say the same about clubs who sign Israeli players like eg Eyal Berkovic? (Btw, I am not assuming you are a Celtic fan, this is more for the benefit of that fearless opponent of prejudice in whatever form it takes, or wherever it resides, Tony Fearon...)
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8045392/175/
"Celtic was a big mistake for me, that's for sure. Celtic never understood me , and I for sure never understood them. It was a club with an image which was full of its own self importance and role in the world. The club was going through a troubled time and when manager John Barnes got the sack, my days there were numbered. It's hard to say this but I feel that I have to point out that Celtic, certainly at that time did not react well to people who they did not consider were 'one of them". I am Jewish and proud of my religion and background, Barnes and Ian Wright felt the same as me, and they were quickly ostracised when results went against us. After one midweek game which we lost, Wright and Barnes were subject to really disgraceful racial abuse in the car park. It was at that point I knew I had to get out. I found it really disconcerting having to play in front of a huge crowd where many fans had PLO flags and celebrated terrorist actions. They were backing an organization which, after all, wanted the destruction of the State of Israel. How could I give one hundred percent for such a club with an ethos like that?
The Celtic Rangers games were utter madness, and I had to remind myself for which club I was playing! I always stood up for the sovereignty of the nation and the right of law. Celtic seemed to be going for the opposite, by supporting terrorist groups from Spain, Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. It was crazy!"
Absolutely nothing to do with the club at all. I'm not shying away from responsibility but if you're going to level racist charges at Celtic because their fans allegedly abused Berkovic, Wright and Barnes then we could be here all day calling the IFA out on the actions of their fans. Considering that Bertie Peacock was captain of Celtic, and that many Protestants played for the club, it's a very strange accusation to level at Celtic to suggest that they, as a club, were discriminating against individuals and 'supporting terrorist groups'. The desire for the 'destruction of Israel' is nowhere to be found in the ethos of Celtic, shockingly.
Thank you for that answer, but I repeat, my point was directed at Fearon, who started this thread, namely how can you condemn one team on the basis that a section of their fans may be prejudiced, yet still support another team, who have prejudiced fans amongst its own support?
Btw, I'm still waiting to hear what similarly provocative flags to the TAL Tricolour have you seen at Windsor Park? Unless, of course, you are referring to the eirigi flag waved at the recent game vs Poland? By an away supporter? ;)
It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 09:16:06 PM
Thank you for that answer, but I repeat, my point was directed at Fearon, who started this thread, namely how can you condemn one team on the basis that a section of their fans may be prejudiced, yet still support another team, who have prejudiced fans amongst its own support?
I have yet to hear the Irish national anthem played over the loudspeakers in Celtic Park. I have seen a poppy display at Celtic Park--I have yet to see an easter lily being worn at Windsor Park. It's about institutions and collectives--not individuals whom no-one can legislate for.
QuoteBtw, I'm still waiting to hear what similarly provocative flags to the TAL Tricolour have you seen at Windsor Park? Unless, of course, you are referring to the eirigi flag waved at the recent game vs Poland? By an away supporter? ;)
I equated the 'TAL tricolour'--which I would welcome you to show me a picture of being flown at Celtic Park--to all flags of a political nature. The Ulster Banner, for example, is a banner of a sectarian government and has no place at any sporting event.
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the IFA situation.
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2009, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 13, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?
(http://shaide.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/ira-flag.jpg)
I find it rather ironic, though by no means surprising, that Fearon can castigate the supporters of one team for flying flags which he finds objectionable, but doesn't mind supporting another team himself, some of whose supporters go out of their way to get their own (ahem) provocative flags professionally printed.
I have never seen the flag in question at a Celtic bar or a Celtic game. Nor have I seen one at an Ireland game. The games are well stewarded in this regard with the apparent exception of North of Ireland games.
Quote
Wouldn't imagine Irish club cricket needs a great deal of stewarding in the first place...
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Cutting through all your crap, you'd basically like it if we pretended it wasn't a Northern Ireland team.
Or even better, just disappeared completely.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2009, 09:27:29 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the IFA situation.
Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 13, 2009, 04:07:22 PM
Name me one piece of postive action the ifa or its fans have taken to widen the support base for their team.
Hnaging up Give Sectarianism the Boot banners doesn't count.
Tony why would you want to widen the support base of this "team"? :'(
Still don't see why Celtic is being equated with the 6 county statelet team. Why isnt Rangers being thrown in there if that was the case?
The big difference lest some of our 'GAA readers' forget is that the 6 county statelet team is supposed to represent both traditions. Rangers and Celtic will never do the same due to their history.
The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".
It's there to represent Northern Ireland.
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Your problem is that you don't recognise Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland or England or Scotland or Wales cannot represent everyone in terms of symbols, identity or cultural diversity if people simply opt out and choose to opt for something outside the bounds of reality.
Quote from: carribbear on August 14, 2009, 12:10:02 AM
the 6 county statelet team
Reality must really hurt you.
Quote from: MW on August 14, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".
It's there to represent Northern Ireland.
ALL of the people or SOME of the people?
Quote from: carribbear on August 14, 2009, 12:34:31 AM
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 12:33:33 AM
Quote from: carribbear on August 14, 2009, 12:10:02 AM
the 6 county statelet team
Reality must really hurt you.
Just calling it what it is ;)
Maybe in your wee pool, big fish. Try what the rest of planet calls it ;D
Quote from: carribbear on August 14, 2009, 12:35:49 AM
Quote from: MW on August 14, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".
It's there to represent Northern Ireland.
ALL of the people or SOME of the people?
Northern Ireland. That's it.
Quote from: MW on August 14, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".
It's there to represent Northern Ireland.
Is the Ireland rugby team there to represent two traditions, or just Ireland as a whole?
Quote from: the green man on August 14, 2009, 12:41:07 AM
Quote from: MW on August 14, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".
It's there to represent Northern Ireland.
Is the Ireland rugby team there to represent two traditions, or just Ireland as a whole?
Supposedlt Ireland as a whole. Does it badly though.
Dunno why ye bother lads, couldnt care less. If this team wants to play on a pitch the same colours & design as the butchers apron, let them do so, til their
hearts content. They wont change my opinion, nor will i change theirs. Let them at it, to each his own. If they want to play in green jerseys, grand! Pink, thats
ok too. Union Jack jerseys, whatever the f**k they want. As far as im concerned, the N I soccer team may as well be from Outer Mongolia. I have never seen them
in Windsor Park, or anywhere else nor have i ever watched them on TV, never have and never will.
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 12:52:36 AM
Supposedlt Ireland as a whole. Does it badly though.
Why the need for a second anthem then?
Quote from: the green man on August 14, 2009, 01:01:12 AM
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 12:52:36 AM
Supposedlt Ireland as a whole. Does it badly though.
Why the need for a second anthem then?
Different and irrelevant argument / question to this thread. It's been done many times. Search the board and you'll get the general view from all sides and none.
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 01:08:17 AM
Quote from: the green man on August 14, 2009, 01:01:12 AM
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 12:52:36 AM
Supposedlt Ireland as a whole. Does it badly though.
Why the need for a second anthem then?
Different and irrelevant argument / question to this thread. It's been done many times. Search the board and you'll get the general view from all sides and none.
If its for ireland they can ditch that awful 'irelands call' then and just play the real anthem only.
Quote from: carribbear on August 14, 2009, 01:19:06 AM
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 01:08:17 AM
Quote from: the green man on August 14, 2009, 01:01:12 AM
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 12:52:36 AM
Supposedlt Ireland as a whole. Does it badly though.
Why the need for a second anthem then?
Different and irrelevant argument / question to this thread. It's been done many times. Search the board and you'll get the general view from all sides and none.
If its for ireland they can ditch that awful 'irelands call' then and just play the real anthem only.
For once I agree. Play the only Politcally representative anthem and play absolutely nothing and just get on with the game. Well done Carribear, you know it makes sense ;)
Quote from: Roger on August 14, 2009, 01:21:52 AM
For once I agree. Play the only Politcally representative anthem and play absolutely nothing and just get on with the game. Well done Carribear, you know it makes sense ;)
I'm sure they're be a little tear in your eye as you're watching the rugby lads being presented to the Irish president Gregory Campbell in 2020 with Amhrann Na Bhfiann being played in the background
At this stage this discussion is getting tired - still want to know why a soccer bar (not Loyalist you twat) feels the need to fly a British army flag?
As for Eyal Berkovic he was mince for Celtic as was Barnes and Wright - thats why they were given a hard time.
Btw I agree Israel should be ignored by the rest of the world until they start treating the Palestinian people like humen beings. Funny Hilter's treatment of the Jews comes to mind when looking at the way Israel treats the Palestinians.
Finally the 6 counties soccer team are about to get ripped a new arse in their group and will finish at best fourth in the group. ;) ;D
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2009, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Cutting through all your crap, you'd basically like it if we pretended it wasn't a Northern Ireland team.
Or even better, just disappeared completely.
No, I wouldn't. I think that a balance can be struck between waving Union Jacks all over the place and playing GSTQ and/or similar republican displays of national identity. If the stated ethos of the IFA is to respect diversity then perhaps the fact that the majority of nationalists now vote for a republican party who believe in an Irish cultural identity and equal rights for a Catholic religiom. If this same party is willing to stand in a 'Northern Ireland' assembly then I see no reason why the Northern Ireland football team cannot change its stance on anthems to a neutral or 'diverse' one. It seemed to get up-to-date on the passport issue quickly enough so I see no contradiction in getting up-to-date with everything else.
What the fcuk has a tricolour carried by an individual with a Celtic emblem and the words "Tiocfaidh ar La" got to do with anything? The slogan could be a reference to Celtic Football Club achieveing success on the field.
This is in no way analogous to the North of Ireland's most prominent soccer supporters club being festooned with loyalist regalia when the club members purport to be non sectarian.
Once again when behind the eight ball North of Ireland supporters clutch at straws, ie the GAA, Celtic ( a club that has done its level best to rid itself of sectarianism and be inclusive in the last 15 to 20 years), instead of addressing the problem they still have.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2009, 10:09:08 AM
What the fcuk has a tricolour carried by an individual with a Celtic emblem and the words "Tiocfaidh ar La" got to do with anything?
It's quite simple, really. You object to the whole concept of the NI team, on the basis that you object to what you assume to be the politics of some of its fans. Yet you proudly support another team, a section of whose supporters are known for espousing opinions on religion and politics etc which are a sight more objectionable.
And just so as there be no misunderstanding, that is not a criticism of Celtic FC, since there is an obvious limit as to how much they might be expected to answer for people who latch onto the club.
Rather, it is a direct criticism of you and your rank hypocrisy.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2009, 10:09:08 AM
The slogan could be a reference to Celtic Football Club achieveing success on the field.
And I'm Pope Benedict XVI...
But hey, you go on making that sort of claim - no doubt you think it clever, but it only reduces your credibility to somewhere below zero. ::)
I don't object to the concept of any football team even if I do think its sad that football can not be promoted on an isalnd wide basis in Ireland, as I think it would be the most beneifical way by far to promote it.
What I do object to is the crap being spouted from various mouthpieces (like Mr Mc Allister in the Belfast Telegraph a few days ago when he apportioned the blame for the violence at the recent North of Ireland Poland game entirely to Polish thugs), as to how the North of Ireland fans have eradicated sectarianism, how they are all inclusive etc when the truth is that they have done nothing of the sort and a significant number won't even admit that they ever had a problem.
Do you think that it is not ridiculous that a club whose members vehemently claim to be non sectarian has its premises festooned with loyalist regalia? Do you think this will increase the likelihood of the North of Ireland team widening its monocultural support base?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2009, 10:48:50 AM
It's quite simple, really. You object to the whole concept of the NI team, on the basis that you object to what you assume to be the politics of some of its fans. Yet you proudly support another team, a section of whose supporters are known for espousing opinions on religion and politics etc which are a sight more objectionable.
And just so as there be no misunderstanding, that is not a criticism of Celtic FC, since there is an obvious limit as to how much they might be expected to answer for people who latch onto the club.
Rather, it is a direct criticism of you and your rank hypocrisy.
But hey, you go on making that sort of claim - no doubt you think it clever, but it only reduces your credibility to somewhere below zero. ::)
dont forget those Rangers FC chaps....good lad.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2009, 11:25:32 AM
What I do object to is the crap being spouted from various mouthpieces (like Mr Mc Allister in the Belfast Telegraph a few days ago when he apportioned the blame for the violence at the recent North of Ireland Poland game entirely to Polish thugs), as to how the North of Ireland fans have eradicated sectarianism, how they are all inclusive etc when the truth is that they have done nothing of the sort and a significant number won't even admit that they ever had a problem.
How do you square the above rant with what Ziggy reported on another thread:
"Was chatting to my cousin last night. Told me he was at the game on Wednesday night too in Windsor Park. Said that things have changed from the last time he was there. A very relaxed atmosphere and non of the old sectarism from before. There's still a serious dislike for the RoI soccer team, but it's more of a healthy rivarly now than anything else. Felt safe in it too and he recommended for me to head up for a match sometime to see for myself"I guess either Ziggy or his cousin is lying, then?
After all, it couldn't be you, could it... ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2009, 10:09:08 AM
What the fcuk has a tricolour carried by an individual with a Celtic emblem and the words "Tiocfaidh ar La" got to do with anything? The slogan could be a reference to Celtic Football Club achieveing success on the field.
And the boys who shout "no surrender" during GSTQ are talking about not surrendering on the pitch ::)
We are straying from the point (in otherwords you are clutching at straws again) which is that arguably The North of Ireland Supporters Club with the highest profile is festooned with loyalist regalia even though its members claim to be non sectarian. ie Its not a few isolated dickheads adding the words No Surrender to the England team's National Anthem or a tool carrying a bastardised Ulster Flag complete with IFA emblem and YCV slogan for example. Discuss and Explain with particular emphasis on the following points
Are North of Ireland fans sectarian or not?
Are they correct in being self congratulatory for having eradicated sectarianism?
Should Mr Rainey refuse to accept his OBE?
QuoteAre North of Ireland fans sectarian or not?
Some are many arent - hard to ask of pretty much any large group in northern ireland.
QuoteAre they correct in being self congratulatory for having eradicated sectarianism?
Nobody has claimed it has been eradicated. Many people are rightly happy at the work that has been done - and continues to be done. People are still working on a lot of stuff for FFA.
QuoteShould Mr Rainey refuse to accept his OBE?
Only if he doesnt agree with such awards. Jim deserves every regognition in the world. His work over the last 10 years has been much more beneficial to society than your type of input could ever be. Ive been involved with Jim on a number of things in the past and could not say enough good things about him and what he does.
Next questions;
Why does the IFA side attract a core of hardline loyalist only bigots to its games and its supporters clubs?
Why does the IFA side attract no support whatsoever from the catholic/nationalist population?
Does the IFA's exclusive use of unionist symbols etc act as a magnet for those who wish to give expression to their politics at sporting occasions and if so would discontinuing their use not have the opposite effect?
I offer for your consideration this view from a contributor to the Belfast Telegraph. It is a rather damning indictment of the IFA don't you think?
"The Northern Ireland team represents a fragment of a fragmented part of a fragmented island. It is not an all embracing team like the Irish Rugby team that has a following from different social and political classes. It is sectarian to the core, a team whose followers have atually threatened some of its own star players. What more can be said ? In the north there are two national teams, NI & The ROI. Bewildering to many people from other countries. This issues is just not worth losing sleep over, better to enjoy what can be achieved in rugby when intelligence overrides tribal sectarianism."
Posted by S Ó Cearbhaill | 14.08.09, 14:15 GMT
QuoteWhy does the IFA side attract a core of hardline loyalist only bigots to its games and its supporters clubs?
Not sure I understand your question? Are you implying that we should attract hardline republican bigots?
How many hardline bigots are you talking about. Not aware of many in my supporters club.
QuoteWhy does the IFA side attract no support whatsoever from the catholic/nationalist population?
It does not attract "no" support from catholics. Obviously those who are nationalists and believe that NI should not exist are going to be reluctant to support a team representing NI. Fair play to them - they have their views. Why would they support NI? Then there are the prople who cant even say NI, and refer to the team as North of Ireland etc. Why would they support NI?
QuoteDoes the IFA's exclusive use of unionist symbols etc act as a magnet for those who wish to give expression to their politics at sporting occasions and if so would discontinuing their use not have the opposite effect?
Dunno the point in arguing this with you - you are happy with "exclusive use of symbols" in one place but not another, and you've got a weasely rationale for this. I would say that shamrocks, "irish" fa, green shirts etc could not be seen as symbols of one community - but I would be happy to ditch GSTQ.
Quotefrom different social and political classes
What social class does he think exclusively goes to the football?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2009, 03:13:51 PM
We are straying from the point
No the whole point of this thread is that it is an attempt by you to discredit the IFA, NI team and all its fans etc, by a mixture of tribal rant, propaganda and outright lies.
One example of this is where you claimed:
"What I do object to is the crap being spouted from various mouthpieces... ...as to how the North of Ireland fans have eradicated sectarianism, how they are all inclusive etc when the truth is that they have done nothing of the sort and a significant number won't even admit that they ever had a problem"
All of which blithely ignores clear evidence to the contrary, such as that posted by Ziggy from as recently as Wednesday's game. Which, in case you failed to notice, went as follows:
"Was chatting to my cousin last night. Told me he was at the game on Wednesday night too in Windsor Park. Said that things have changed from the last time he was there. A very relaxed atmosphere and non of the old sectarism from before. There's still a serious dislike for the RoI soccer team, but it's more of a healthy rivarly now than anything else. Felt safe in it too and he recommended for me to head up for a match sometime to see for myself"So I'll ask again the question, how do you square your description of NI football with that of Ziggy's?
Back to you.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2009, 04:08:16 PM
I offer for your consideration this view from a contributor to the Belfast Telegraph. It is a rather damning indictment of the IFA don't you think?
"The Northern Ireland team represents a fragment of a fragmented part of a fragmented island. It is not an all embracing team like the Irish Rugby team that has a following from different social and political classes. It is sectarian to the core, a team whose followers have atually threatened some of its own star players. What more can be said ? In the north there are two national teams, NI & The ROI. Bewildering to many people from other countries. This issues is just not worth losing sleep over, better to enjoy what can be achieved in rugby when intelligence overrides tribal sectarianism."
Posted by S Ó Cearbhaill | 14.08.09, 14:15 GMT
Here's a deal. How about I answer your question (
emboldened) after you answer the question which I've already asked you twice (i.e. Ziggy's account)?
Back to you.
So what if one person's experience is not unpleasant? I myself have been to countless numbers of North Of Ireland games and not felt uncomfortable but I have also felt no empathy with the team or that it was playing for or representing me.
Its up to the IFA to create a particularly neutral environment which in turn might widen the support base of the team and will certainly discourage thos who use North of Ireland games as a means of political expression/triumphalism currently
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2009, 04:27:03 PM
No the whole point of this thread is that it is an attempt by you to discredit the IFA, NI team and all its fans etc, by a mixture of tribal rant, propaganda and outright lies.
Lies?
So you're saying that the 6 county statelet fans are NOT sectarian and the IFA have clamped down on them?
Quote from: carribbear on August 14, 2009, 05:07:12 PM
Lies?
So you're saying that the 6 county statelet fans are NOT sectarian and the IFA have clamped down on them?
Some are some arent. You think any other large diverse group here is different?
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2009, 11:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2009, 09:27:29 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the IFA situation.
Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough ::)
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Quote from: the green man on August 14, 2009, 12:41:07 AM
Quote from: MW on August 14, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".
It's there to represent Northern Ireland.
Is the Ireland rugby team there to represent two traditions, or just Ireland as a whole?
It emphatically isn't there to "represent two traditions". It's there to represent Ireland*.
(*in case there's any ambiguity, I mean the island, clearly, not the state of the same name and some of the same territory)
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2009, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2009, 11:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2009, 09:27:29 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the IFA situation.
Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough ::)
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
And the Union Flag is the national flag of, say for argument's sake, 55%.
If someone wants to proclaim allegiance to the RoI's Tricolour in the field of international football, there's a team called the Republic of Ireland that does just that.
(And if someone wants to proclaim allegiance to the Union Flag in the field of international football, they can campaign for a UK team...until then, tough s**t)
Quote from: stibhan on August 14, 2009, 06:53:28 AM
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2009, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Cutting through all your crap, you'd basically like it if we pretended it wasn't a Northern Ireland team.
Or even better, just disappeared completely.
No, I wouldn't. I think that a balance can be struck between waving Union Jacks all over the place and playing GSTQ and/or similar republican displays of national identity. If the stated ethos of the IFA is to respect diversity then perhaps the fact that the majority of nationalists now vote for a republican party who believe in an Irish cultural identity and equal rights for a Catholic religiom. If this same party is willing to stand in a 'Northern Ireland' assembly then I see no reason why the Northern Ireland football team cannot change its stance on anthems to a neutral or 'diverse' one. It seemed to get up-to-date on the passport issue quickly enough so I see no contradiction in getting up-to-date with everything else.
Who's "waving Union Jacks all over the place"?
Holding up SF as some sort of example is a very bad idea - you're pointing out that its voters vote for a party whose representatives, pathetically (given that it supported the Good Friday Agreement, sits in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and the Northern Ireland Executive, and has a deputy leader who is deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland), can't even bring themselves to say the words "Northern Ireland". People such as these representatives can't, I would posit, be brought to a position much better than not expressing open hostility to the NI team.
I've no problem changing GSTQ as the anthem, BTW - been advocating it for years.
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
[/quote]
Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist ;)
Quote from: T Fearon on August 14, 2009, 04:08:16 PM
I offer for your consideration this view from a contributor to the Belfast Telegraph. It is a rather damning indictment of the IFA don't you think?
"The Northern Ireland team represents a fragment of a fragmented part of a fragmented island. It is not an all embracing team like the Irish Rugby team that has a following from different social and political classes. It is sectarian to the core, a team whose followers have atually threatened some of its own star players. What more can be said ? In the north there are two national teams, NI & The ROI. Bewildering to many people from other countries. This issues is just not worth losing sleep over, better to enjoy what can be achieved in rugby when intelligence overrides tribal sectarianism."
Posted by S Ó Cearbhaill | 14.08.09, 14:15 GMT
Surely someone who writes as many letters to papers as you do would realise that it's no great achievement to have your letter published. Just because the Telegraph published it doesn't make it 'right' - it's still just one person's opinion. A letter in a daily rag is no more valid than a post on his thread!
Also, quite amusing that you post this letter, yet don't seem to agree with the last line yourself - i.e. don't get angry about such things, just ignore them. Shameful too that the author of such a letter references the "NI" "national team", surely?
::)
Quote from: dillinger on August 14, 2009, 10:13:09 PM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist ;)
[/quote]
I never mentioned Religion.
Nationalists of whatever Church have only one National Flag ...the Green/White/Orange Tricolour.
Not too sure about Unionists ....between the old Stormont Flag and the Butch....Union Jack I assume they have 2 National Flags( i.e depending on whether they see the 6 Cos as a Country(sic) or a Province(even more sic) or whatever...
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2009, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2009, 11:32:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2009, 09:27:29 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the IFA situation.
Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough ::)
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% 48% of the people of the Six Counties.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 14, 2009, 10:33:52 PM
Quote from: dillinger on August 14, 2009, 10:13:09 PM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist ;)
I never mentioned Religion.
Nationalists of whatever Church have only one National Flag ...the Green/White/Orange Tricolour.
Not too sure about Unionists ....between the old Stormont Flag and the Butch....Union Jack I assume they have 2 National Flags( i.e depending on whether they see the 6 Cos as a Country(sic) or a Province(even more sic) or whatever...
[/quote]
Well what is the 45% about then? ;)
Quote from: dillinger on August 14, 2009, 10:13:09 PM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Wrong to assume all RC are
nationasts and all PRODS are unionist ;)
[/quote]
??? ::)
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 14, 2009, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: dillinger on August 14, 2009, 10:13:09 PM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist ;)
??? ::)
[/quote]
A dig at my spelling? cutch yuself onn :D
Quote from: dillinger on August 14, 2009, 10:44:37 PM
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on August 14, 2009, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: dillinger on August 14, 2009, 10:13:09 PM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Wrong to assume all RC are nationasts and all PRODS are unionist ;)
??? ::)
A dig at my spelling? cutch yuself onn :D
[/quote]
nah, whats the point!
what 45 %
Quote from: MW on August 14, 2009, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 14, 2009, 06:53:28 AM
Quote from: MW on August 13, 2009, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: stibhan on August 13, 2009, 09:16:23 PM
It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:
'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'
'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?
Cutting through all your crap, you'd basically like it if we pretended it wasn't a Northern Ireland team.
Or even better, just disappeared completely.
No, I wouldn't. I think that a balance can be struck between waving Union Jacks all over the place and playing GSTQ and/or similar republican displays of national identity. If the stated ethos of the IFA is to respect diversity then perhaps the fact that the majority of nationalists now vote for a republican party who believe in an Irish cultural identity and equal rights for a Catholic religiom. If this same party is willing to stand in a 'Northern Ireland' assembly then I see no reason why the Northern Ireland football team cannot change its stance on anthems to a neutral or 'diverse' one. It seemed to get up-to-date on the passport issue quickly enough so I see no contradiction in getting up-to-date with everything else.
Who's "waving Union Jacks all over the place"?
Holding up SF as some sort of example is a very bad idea - you're pointing out that its voters vote for a party whose representatives, pathetically (given that it supported the Good Friday Agreement, sits in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and the Northern Ireland Executive, and has a deputy leader who is deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland), can't even bring themselves to say the words "Northern Ireland". People such as these representatives can't, I would posit, be brought to a position much better than not expressing open hostility to the NI team.
I've no problem changing GSTQ as the anthem, BTW - been advocating it for years.
Union Jacks are to be seen everywhere in Windsor Park at most games from what I've seen on the television. The Ulster Banner is used as well, which is at least equally offensive. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one because I must flick over to see the score at the most inconvenient times.
I would 'posit' that most of the voters in Sinn Fein wouldn't have much trouble using the term Northern Ireland--I'll admit to preferring 'North of Ireland' but nomenclature is a petty subject. Get rid of the anti-Catholic atmosphere, or the perceptions of an anti-Catholic atmosphere, and there would be goodwill from all sides. Loyalist sticks and stones may break my bones but 'Northern Ireland' will never hurt me.
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Just because 45% of the north's population is catholic, it doesn't mean that they all recognise the tricolour as their national flag. For me, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 counties. It's the free state's flag. The national flag of a 32 county independent Ireland has yet to be designed. I look forward to that day, but in the meantime don't expect me to get all emotional over the free state's emblem. Same applies to the 'national' anthem.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 10:57:18 AM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Just because 45% of the north's population is catholic, it doesn't mean that they all recognise the tricolour as their national flag. For me, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 counties. It's the free state's flag. The national flag of a 32 county independent Ireland has yet to be designed. I look forward to that day, but in the meantime don't expect me to get all emotional over the free state's emblem. Same applies to the 'national' anthem.
He was talking about nationalists
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 10:57:18 AM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Just because 45% of the north's population is catholic, it doesn't mean that they all recognise the tricolour as their national flag. For me, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 counties. It's the free state's flag. The national flag of a 32 county independent Ireland has yet to be designed. I look forward to that day, but in the meantime don't expect me to get all emotional over the free state's emblem. Same applies to the 'national' anthem.
We don't expect you to. Again, with reference to the 'football for all' policy on diversity, when the anthem or flag of Ireland (a flag which predates the 'free state' by a considerable space of time) are not respected at Windsor Park then the anthem and flag of what has been recognised as a discriminatory Stormont Government should not be respected either. The Union Jack too, as a symbol of unionism, shouldn't be allowed to be brought into the ground or flown on a mast.
Your opinion on whether or not the tricolour is the flag of a 26 county state may have its own validity, but in the interests of fairness I would suggest that another man's opinion that the Union Jack and the Ulster Banner are similarly inappropriate should be respected as well.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 15, 2009, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 10:57:18 AM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Just because 45% of the north's population is catholic, it doesn't mean that they all recognise the tricolour as their national flag. For me, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 counties. It's the free state's flag. The national flag of a 32 county independent Ireland has yet to be designed. I look forward to that day, but in the meantime don't expect me to get all emotional over the free state's emblem. Same applies to the 'national' anthem.
He was talking about nationalists
He was talking about people who live in the 6 counties, so that's you out.
Myles are you Jeffrey Donaldson in disguise?
Fcuk me your the most loyalist nationalist i've ever come across or else your one of the best WUM'S on the board...
Of course you might not know what your at ????
We don't expect you to. Again, with reference to the 'football for all' policy on diversity, when the anthem or flag of Ireland (a flag which predates the 'free state' by a considerable space of time) are not respected at Windsor Park then the anthem and flag of what has been recognised as a discriminatory Stormont Government should not be respected either. The Union Jack too, as a symbol of unionism, shouldn't be allowed to be brought into the ground or flown on a mast.
Your opinion on whether or not the tricolour is the flag of a 26 county state may have its own validity, but in the interests of fairness I would suggest that another man's opinion that the Union Jack and the Ulster Banner are similarly inappropriate should be respected as well.
I wasn't making any comment at all on the Ulster banner, union flag or the IFA's various policies. I'm simply stating that, for this particular nationalist, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 county state, the state which turned its back on the north many years ago. I have no love for it or for the so called national anthem. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the real republic, i.e the 32 county version, the first item on the agenda should be the need for a new flag and anthem. Until then, I'll content myself with wearing my Ireland rugby shirt and singing Ireland's Call. Sadly, they're the closest we have to agreed, acceptable symbols on this island.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
I wasn't making any comment at all on the Ulster banner, union flag or the IFA's various policies. I'm simply stating that, for this particular nationalist, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 county state, the state which turned its back on the north many years ago. I have no love for it or for the so called national anthem. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the real republic, i.e the 32 county version, the first item on the agenda should be the need for a new flag and anthem. Until then, I'll content myself with wearing my Ireland rugby shirt and singing Ireland's Call. Sadly, they're the closest we have to agreed, acceptable symbols on this island.
:D
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 15, 2009, 01:16:34 PM
Myles are you Jeffrey Donaldson in disguise?
Fcuk me your the most loyalist nationalist i've ever come across or else your one of the best WUM'S on the board...
Of course you might not know what your at ????
Well he's neither really, he's not a nationalist and he's not a very good WUM as everyone sees through him.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 15, 2009, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 10:57:18 AM
The Tricolour is the National Flag of 45% of the people of the Six Counties.
Just because 45% of the north's population is catholic, it doesn't mean that they all recognise the tricolour as their national flag. For me, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 counties. It's the free state's flag. The national flag of a 32 county independent Ireland has yet to be designed. I look forward to that day, but in the meantime don't expect me to get all emotional over the free state's emblem. Same applies to the 'national' anthem.
He was talking about nationalists
He was talking about people who live in the 6 counties, so that's you out.
Where did I say I was included?
Btw, the fact you keep saying your a nationalist in every second post is doing nothing for your windup attempts, it's overkill.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 15, 2009, 01:36:00 PM
Quote from: The Watcher Pat on August 15, 2009, 01:16:34 PM
Myles are you Jeffrey Donaldson in disguise?
Fcuk me your the most loyalist nationalist i've ever come across or else your one of the best WUM'S on the board...
Of course you might not know what your at ????
Well he's neither really, he's not a nationalist and he's not a very good WUM as everyone sees through him.
I'm not even sure what to call him now....ure right POG he want's to be A WUM but most people have caught on to him...Aka (Jeffrey Donaldson/Daniel O'Donnell)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
We don't expect you to. Again, with reference to the 'football for all' policy on diversity, when the anthem or flag of Ireland (a flag which predates the 'free state' by a considerable space of time) are not respected at Windsor Park then the anthem and flag of what has been recognised as a discriminatory Stormont Government should not be respected either. The Union Jack too, as a symbol of unionism, shouldn't be allowed to be brought into the ground or flown on a mast.
Your opinion on whether or not the tricolour is the flag of a 26 county state may have its own validity, but in the interests of fairness I would suggest that another man's opinion that the Union Jack and the Ulster Banner are similarly inappropriate should be respected as well.
I wasn't making any comment at all on the Ulster banner, union flag or the IFA's various policies. I'm simply stating that, for this particular nationalist, the tricolour is the flag of the 26 county state, the state which turned its back on the north many years ago. I have no love for it or for the so called national anthem. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the real republic, i.e the 32 county version, the first item on the agenda should be the need for a new flag and anthem. Until then, I'll content myself with wearing my Ireland rugby shirt and singing Ireland's Call. Sadly, they're the closest we have to agreed, acceptable symbols on this island.
Yes, the tricolour an offensive flag, what with its conciliatory attitude towards Republicanism and Orangism. What a horrible message to send to the children. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the 'real republic' I somehow doubt you'll be prominent at the negotiating table.
Yes, the tricolour an offensive flag, what with its conciliatory attitude towards Republicanism and Orangism. What a horrible message to send to the children. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the 'real republic' I somehow doubt you'll be prominent at the negotiating table.
I never described the tricolour as offensive - those are your words, not mine. I described it as the flag of the 26 county state, which it is. I stated that I consider it an inappropriate choice as the flag of the real Irish republic if and when that state emerges. If you fancy responding to the opinions I express, rather than ones you make up and then attribute to me, work away.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
Yes, the tricolour an offensive flag, what with its conciliatory attitude towards Republicanism and Orangism. What a horrible message to send to the children. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the 'real republic' I somehow doubt you'll be prominent at the negotiating table.
I never described the tricolour as offensive - those are your words, not mine. I described it as the flag of the 26 county state, which it is. I stated that I consider it an inappropriate choice as the flag of the real Irish republic if and when that state emerges. If you fancy responding to the opinions I express, rather than ones you make up and then attribute to me, work away.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...haviin a kip here likr....zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
Yes, the tricolour an offensive flag, what with its conciliatory attitude towards Republicanism and Orangism. What a horrible message to send to the children. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the 'real republic' I somehow doubt you'll be prominent at the negotiating table.
I never described the tricolour as offensive - those are your words, not mine. I described it as the flag of the 26 county state, which it is. I stated that I consider it an inappropriate choice as the flag of the real Irish republic if and when that state emerges. If you fancy responding to the opinions I express, rather than ones you make up and then attribute to me, work away.
As much as I'm going to regret this - Myles what would you see as better then the green white and orange?
You claim to be a nationalist - what are your hopes for the Nationalist people?
As much as I'm going to regret this - Myles what would you see as better then the green white and orange?
You claim to be a nationalist - what are your hopes for the Nationalist people?
My hopes for the nationalist people of Ireland are exactly the same as my hopes for the unionists: I hope that we all manage to live in a peaceful, prosperous Ireland. I believe this hope can best be fulfilled in a reunited, 32 county, independent Irish republic. I have no hatred for the British or for the British government. I simply believe that the interests of the Irish people would be better served by a government of its own citizens taking decisions in Dublin, rather than by a government elected largely by the good people of the south east of England. The challenge for nationalists is to convince others on the island who hold a different view, in particular, the 900,000 unionists in the north east corner. No easy task that, but I believe it can be done. My contempt, which I've expressed on here, is reserved for those republicans who hold that the way to convince unionists of the rightness of our cause is to wage war on them. As for the flag of the real Irish republic, I have no idea what that will look like. That will be for the people of the 32 counties - including the northern protestant / British - to decide upon. I would bet my house on the fact that the tricolour won't be the agreed outcome.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 15, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
Yes, the tricolour an offensive flag, what with its conciliatory attitude towards Republicanism and Orangism. What a horrible message to send to the children. If ever we get round to discussing arrangements for the 'real republic' I somehow doubt you'll be prominent at the negotiating table.
I never described the tricolour as offensive - those are your words, not mine. I described it as the flag of the 26 county state, which it is. I stated that I consider it an inappropriate choice as the flag of the real Irish republic if and when that state emerges. If you fancy responding to the opinions I express, rather than ones you make up and then attribute to me, work away.
If it isn't offensive then it isn't inappropriate. It's as simple as that. If you would like to explain how it could be inappropriate then I am all ears.
If it isn't offensive then it isn't inappropriate. It's as simple as that. If you would like to explain how it could be inappropriate then I am all ears.
Something can be inappropriate without being offensive. The Irish tricolour would be an inappropriate emblem for a new 32 county Ireland, because it is the flag of nationalist Ireland, or at least 26 counties of it. Given that any new state will also include 900,000 protestant / British citizens, I feel it would be only but polite to ask them how they would like to be represented too. It would be my belief that few of them would feel that the tricolour could ever be 'their' flag, in the same way that I doubt that many of them will opt for A soldier's Song as their national anthem. Hence, both are inappropriate.
Have to (regretfully :D) agree with MnaG on the future flag/anthem issue when the All Ireland political entity comes about.
We'll have a bland flag ...white with a green Ireland in the middle of it... while we'll have a bland ditty..ár oileán álainn/our lovely isle/ something silly ulster scotch( grond wee plece surroonded be watter?) as an anthem.
Quote from: stibhan on August 15, 2009, 10:03:31 AM
Union Jacks are to be seen everywhere in Windsor Park at most games from what I've seen on the television. The Ulster Banner is used as well, which is at least equally offensive. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one because I must flick over to see the score at the most inconvenient times.
That's a gross exaggeration. There are Union Flags there, but if the numbers reached double figures it would be just about. Vastly outnumbered both by Ulster Banners and various green and white or green, white and navy flags.
You're flip-flopping badly here by the way - you were talking about the flag the IFA uses, previously.
Also can I ask what your attitude to the Tricolour at Ireland rugby matches (or indeed international rules matches) is?
Quote
I would 'posit' that most of the voters in Sinn Fein wouldn't have much trouble using the term Northern Ireland--I'll admit to preferring 'North of Ireland' but nomenclature is a petty subject.
Hardly a "petty subject", given that SF elected representatives refuse to use the term Northern Ireland precisely because (ridiculously, given their 'support' of the GFA and participation in government) they seek to deny that they would give any legitimacy to Northern Ireland. This cuts right to the heart of their attitude to the NI football team. I would, however, agree that most of their voters wouldn't have the same trouble with the term.
Quote
Get rid of the anti-Catholic atmosphere, or the perceptions of an anti-Catholic atmosphere, and there would be goodwill from all sides. Loyalist sticks and stones may break my bones but 'Northern Ireland' will never hurt me.
The very fact that you're saying this gives the lie to it, really. There is no "anti-Catholic atmosphere". Sectarian chanting has been successfully stamped on, and this "perception" would be more to do with the mind of the perceiver. For some people (a minority of nationalists) it's the very existance of the Northern Ireland team that's the problem.
Had a great laugh on Thursday morning, they got a lad, head of one of the ni supporters clubs (best fans in the world, don't you know) on the phone from Albania, the guy starts of by tearing lumps out of Nigel Worthington (knock off Nigel he called him), blames the fact that they got beat on the manager and generally blamed him for everything! Amazing how the worm can turn. ;D
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on March 07, 2010, 10:03:31 PM
Had a great laugh on Thursday morning, they got a lad, head of one of the ni supporters clubs (best fans in the world, don't you know) on the phone from Albania, the guy starts of by tearing lumps out of Nigel Worthington (knock off Nigel he called him), blames the fact that they got beat on the manager and generally blamed him for everything! Amazing how the worm can turn. ;D
Erm, what do you mean...were you under the impression he was massively popular? :-\
Quote from: MW on March 07, 2010, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on March 07, 2010, 10:03:31 PM
Had a great laugh on Thursday morning, they got a lad, head of one of the ni supporters clubs (best fans in the world, don't you know) on the phone from Albania, the guy starts of by tearing lumps out of Nigel Worthington (knock off Nigel he called him), blames the fact that they got beat on the manager and generally blamed him for everything! Amazing how the worm can turn. ;D
Erm, what do you mean...were you under the impression he was massively popular? :-\
Wasn't he?
Nope.
Fairly big divide among NI fans on Worthington*. Some like him and rate him, others dislike him and want to see the back of him.
Many of the latter haven't forgiven him for being the Tinkerman who came in and blew our chances of qualifying for Euro 2008. And that's the camp I'm in (I was there in Riga and Reyjavik and it's still seared into my memory).
(Or "Worthlesston", as my camp sometimes calls him...)
Never knew that MW. I thought he was held in the same regards as Lawrie Sanchez.
Quote from: ziggysego on March 07, 2010, 10:38:12 PM
Never knew that MW. I thought he was held in the same regards as Lawrie Sanchez.
Far from it - but then you've hit on another divide there.
Some will point to Worthington blowing Sanchez's legacy with those disastrous results in Latvia and Iceland, as well as his tinkering of the team and adoption of less direct tactics. Others will point out his results have been in the region of Sanchez's - and Sanchez walked out on us.
I just can't warm to him.
Quote from: MW on March 07, 2010, 10:31:52 PM
Nope.
Fairly big divide among NI fans on Worthington*. Some like him and rate him, others dislike him and want to see the back of him.
Many of the latter haven't forgiven him for being the Tinkerman who came in and blew our chances of qualifying for Euro 2008. And that's the camp I'm in (I was there in Riga and Reyjavik and it's still seared into my memory).
(Or "Worthlesston", as my camp sometimes calls him...)
Does OWC also hate the IFA? After all, they're the ones that got the team into the mess they're in by giving Worthington the contract they couldnt afford.
Orior's Advice: Cut your losses now OWC, and vote with your feet for an all-Ireland team that would be run properly, and better chance of qualifying. BWPN (Boycott Windsor Park Now).
Quote from: Orior on March 07, 2010, 10:48:49 PM
Quote from: MW on March 07, 2010, 10:31:52 PM
Nope.
Fairly big divide among NI fans on Worthington*. Some like him and rate him, others dislike him and want to see the back of him.
Many of the latter haven't forgiven him for being the Tinkerman who came in and blew our chances of qualifying for Euro 2008. And that's the camp I'm in (I was there in Riga and Reyjavik and it's still seared into my memory).
(Or "Worthlesston", as my camp sometimes calls him...)
QuoteDoes OWC also hate the IFA?
After all, they're the ones that got the team into the mess they're in by giving Worthington the contract they couldnt afford.
Orior's Advice: Cut your losses now OWC, and vote with your feet for an all-Ireland team that would be run properly, and better chance of qualifying. BWPN (Boycott Windsor Park Now).
Oh God yes. There used to be a series in the fanzine called "Inept Farcical Absurd".
PS - you're not holding the FAI up as an example are you!
Quote from: MW on March 07, 2010, 10:31:52 PM
Nope.
Fairly big divide among NI fans on Worthington*. Some like him and rate him, others dislike him and want to see the back of him.
Many of the latter haven't forgiven him for being the Tinkerman who came in and blew our chances of qualifying for Euro 2008. And that's the camp I'm in (I was there in Riga and Reyjavik and it's still seared into my memory).
(Or "Worthlesston", as my camp sometimes calls him...)
Surely the results in Riga and Reyjavik were fairly predictable given the North's longstanding record away from home.
A mate found these quotes on a BBC message board, lifted from our friends at 'Our Wee Country'
Following on from the Albania game last week, I decided to peruse the main NI fans forum called ourweecountry. So I decided to have a scoot around it to see what the "ordinary decent NI" fans had to say. As you can imagine they are a mite annoyed at the defections of young players to ROI. Here is a snippet from the award winning fans and you make your own judgments:
1. "We are losing more and more players to the Dark Side", the "Beggars"
2. "I work in Dublin but can't wait to get out of it. The only paper I can get down here is the Irish News" to which a poster responds "I would'nt clean my backside with that rag" before another recommends the Belfast Telegraph which can be bought in Easons in O'Connell Street.
3. One says "The IFA should begin by withdrawing from the Celtic Cup, and they should be lobbying the SFA and WFA to do so as well. Teams from the RoI should no longer be invited to partcipate in the Milk Cup. As far as it is possible they should be banning FAI coaches and scouts from watching all games in Northern Ireland, especially those involving schoolboys. And any other inter-association co-operation should stop immediately".
4. ..."Do Republic supporters ask our views about matters? I know I don't care much for what they think especially the one's that live in Northern Ireland".
5. "I can't put into words my hatred for the FAI"
6 "The IFA should ensure that Derry City are no longer allowed to operate within their jurisdiction as they seem to be the primary source of this cancer which is eating at our national team.As all these defectors have such an affinity with the RoI ,it is a bit strange that they prefer to earn their livings in BRITAIN instead of going to their beloved Dublin and playing for Shamrock Rovers or St Pats or whoever,but off course it is only payback for 10000 years of oppression"
7. "I do not believe that a manager (Nigel Worthington") should have to second guess a players' (Shane Duffy's) oportunistic republican sympathies"
Further quotes from NI fans, those honourable, non-partisan scribes on the website our wee country dot.com:
1. "For a long time, but not always, I have hated the FAI and that country with a passion. These days I would love to play them simply for the reason that they are sh*t* and I believe we'd win against them and therefore a against a lot more so-called 'glamourous opposition' than losing to meaningless games against bloody Albania".
2. "In the real world (not that of irredentist politics), to claim that Darron Gibson is as "Irish" as anyone from Dublin or Donegal is palpable nonsense and as transparent as the gesture of granting him of a Passport. I mean to say, if he feels so Irish, why couldn't he have moved a few miles up the road and actually lived there? Four years residence and a Passport suffices for eligibility for anyone else seeking to qualify for a given international team".
3. It's the FAI eyeing up our left footers that's the problem
4. "...A (FAI) base in Northern Ireland? Sure they don't need the overhead of a base, the ba*t**ds are already here tapping up our youth and playing on sectarian grounds to do so.......All these Politically motivated / mercenary players are doing is keeping NI players out of the team and leaving gaps at later stages of our representative teams. That's not on.
5. (on discussions to change the GSTQ anthem).."I agree with what you are saying except that I do believe in God and like the Queen. Also you will find that for a lot of people it is too much to ask. Anyway speaking of c * * t s that have no shame, I really hope this f * c * e r does his cruciate before the end of the season: Marc "poppy hater" Wilson- If it was always his dream to play for the Republic, then why did that leech play for our Under 15's and Under 17's...(another poster responds)" I was in Aghalee the other day and took a drive into Aghagallon. I tried to buy a Cream Egg in the local shop but they only accepted Euros and the road signs were in Irish. So I guess Wilson lived in an enclave of the Republic which takes in the Kilwilkie Estate in Lurgan How did they get away with that? Part of the GFA?
-On bringing ROI players into the NI squad (you have to pinch yourself to believe this considering the 1-0 to Albania)
"Given would be a cert, Dunne and Doyle would be in there too. Their team isn't very good at all and I'm more than happy with our own team without them (and that's before even considering stopping despising them). Their best player seems to refuse to play for them and yet some wee eejits from NI seem to think they are a great side and want to join them".
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
They're a real bitter bunch!
Quote from: Paul Mc Graths Da on March 09, 2010, 05:14:14 PM
5. (on discussions to change the GSTQ anthem).."I agree with what you are saying except that I do believe in God and like the Queen. Also you will find that for a lot of people it is too much to ask. Anyway speaking of c * * t s that have no shame, I really hope this f * c * e r does his cruciate before the end of the season: Marc "poppy hater" Wilson- If it was always his dream to play for the Republic, then why did that leech play for our Under 15's and Under 17's...(another poster responds)" I was in Aghalee the other day and took a drive into Aghagallon. I tried to buy a Cream Egg in the local shop but they only accepted Euros and the road signs were in Irish. So I guess Wilson lived in an enclave of the Republic which takes in the Kilwilkie Estate in Lurgan How did they get away with that? Part of the GFA?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: MW on March 07, 2010, 10:31:52 PM
Nope.
Fairly big divide among NI fans on Worthington*. Some like him and rate him, others dislike him and want to see the back of him.
Many of the latter haven't forgiven him for being the Tinkerman who came in and blew our chances of qualifying for Euro 2008. And that's the camp I'm in (I was there in Riga and Reyjavik and it's still seared into my memory).
(Or "Worthlesston", as my camp sometimes calls him...)
I admired Worthington as a player and seen him regularly for a decent Wednesday team under Howard Wilkinson when I lived in England in the 80s, but I'm not convinced about him as a manager. He seems to have a plan A (score the first goal and defend like f**k) but no plan B if owc go behind in a game ... dunno about blowing Sanchez' legacy (remember, they lost 3-0 at home to Iceland too)... his best result was against Spain, the English were there for the taking the night owc won 1-0 because they took to the pitch like a bunch of arrogant pricks who thought they only had to turn up to win
Paul Mcgrath's Da, I doubt the likes of the decent OWC posters on this forum like MW or nifan or the long since departed sammyg would dispute the fact that there are bucket-loads of what can only be described as small-minded tossers on their site. The key is not to tar everyone with the same brush.
Quote from: stiffler on March 09, 2010, 06:06:55 PM
Quote from: Paul Mc Graths Da on March 09, 2010, 05:14:14 PM
5. (on discussions to change the GSTQ anthem).."I agree with what you are saying except that I do believe in God and like the Queen. Also you will find that for a lot of people it is too much to ask. Anyway speaking of c * * t s that have no shame, I really hope this f * c * e r does his cruciate before the end of the season: Marc "poppy hater" Wilson- If it was always his dream to play for the Republic, then why did that leech play for our Under 15's and Under 17's...(another poster responds)" I was in Aghalee the other day and took a drive into Aghagallon. I tried to buy a Cream Egg in the local shop but they only accepted Euros and the road signs were in Irish. So I guess Wilson lived in an enclave of the Republic which takes in the Kilwilkie Estate in Lurgan How did they get away with that? Part of the GFA?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Probably got overcharged for it as well!
Quote from: gallsman on March 09, 2010, 07:31:33 PM
Paul Mcgrath's Da, I doubt the likes of the decent OWC posters on this forum like MW or nifan or the long since departed sammyg would dispute the fact that there are bucket-loads of what can only be described as small-minded t**sers on their site. The key is not to tar everyone with the same brush.
Wouldn't dream of it.................but you'd have to question the calibre of some of the mods
Quote from: Paul Mc Graths Da on March 09, 2010, 05:14:14 PM
A mate found these quotes on a BBC message board, lifted from our friends at 'Our Wee Country'
Following on from the Albania game last week, I decided to peruse the main NI fans forum called ourweecountry. So I decided to have a scoot around it to see what the "ordinary decent NI" fans had to say. As you can imagine they are a mite annoyed at the defections of young players to ROI. Here is a snippet from the award winning fans and you make your own judgments:
1. "We are losing more and more players to the Dark Side", the "Beggars"
2. "I work in Dublin but can't wait to get out of it. The only paper I can get down here is the Irish News" to which a poster responds "I would'nt clean my backside with that rag" before another recommends the Belfast Telegraph which can be bought in Easons in O'Connell Street.
3. One says "The IFA should begin by withdrawing from the Celtic Cup, and they should be lobbying the SFA and WFA to do so as well. Teams from the RoI should no longer be invited to partcipate in the Milk Cup. As far as it is possible they should be banning FAI coaches and scouts from watching all games in Northern Ireland, especially those involving schoolboys. And any other inter-association co-operation should stop immediately".
4. ..."Do Republic supporters ask our views about matters? I know I don't care much for what they think especially the one's that live in Northern Ireland".
5. "I can't put into words my hatred for the FAI"
6 "The IFA should ensure that Derry City are no longer allowed to operate within their jurisdiction as they seem to be the primary source of this cancer which is eating at our national team.As all these defectors have such an affinity with the RoI ,it is a bit strange that they prefer to earn their livings in BRITAIN instead of going to their beloved Dublin and playing for Shamrock Rovers or St Pats or whoever,but off course it is only payback for 10000 years of oppression"
7. "I do not believe that a manager (Nigel Worthington") should have to second guess a players' (Shane Duffy's) oportunistic republican sympathies"
Further quotes from NI fans, those honourable, non-partisan scribes on the website our wee country dot.com:
1. "For a long time, but not always, I have hated the FAI and that country with a passion. These days I would love to play them simply for the reason that they are sh*t* and I believe we'd win against them and therefore a against a lot more so-called 'glamourous opposition' than losing to meaningless games against bloody Albania".
2. "In the real world (not that of irredentist politics), to claim that Darron Gibson is as "Irish" as anyone from Dublin or Donegal is palpable nonsense and as transparent as the gesture of granting him of a Passport. I mean to say, if he feels so Irish, why couldn't he have moved a few miles up the road and actually lived there? Four years residence and a Passport suffices for eligibility for anyone else seeking to qualify for a given international team".
3. It's the FAI eyeing up our left footers that's the problem
4. "...A (FAI) base in Northern Ireland? Sure they don't need the overhead of a base, the ba*t**ds are already here tapping up our youth and playing on sectarian grounds to do so.......All these Politically motivated / mercenary players ar
5. (on discussions to change the GSTQ anthem).."I agree with what you are saying except that I do believe in God and like the Queen. Also you will find that for a lot of people it is too much to ask. Anyway speaking of c * * t s that have no shame, I really hope this f * c * e r does his cruciate before the end of the season: Marc "poppy hater" Wilson-
I'd say Mark "Poppy hater" Wilson and the undoubted many that will follow him would enjoy the tag "our youth" ;D ;D ;D ;D
When is the penny going to drop with these guys?
The comment about wilson doing his cruciate is despicable.
The comment about really wanting to play us is the musings of some deluded mervyn who thinks Linfield V Crusaders is as good as it gets.
Look the club is not sectarian! I was in one night and can give you advice as, it you will be posed the inevitable question therein by a complete stranger: 'DO I KNOW YE?' ..
In this case point 1 is: do not panic! The way out is simple and just utter one of the following:
1 It's alright aul hand, my da was a foreman in the 'Yard!
2 Oi! Sure we had great crack on the boat over to the Hibs game at Ibrox
3 Ach Norman / Sammy / Billy - remember that Fenian's head burst open on the pavement outside KFC - where did you get those boots? or
4 Sure I got off on a technicality as I was at - I think - a band parade that night - so my mates tell me!
Keep to the above and you will enjoy gulping down yer pint as yer mate phones the peelers...