South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club

[red hander]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W826we8PQOc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XWeJ6TYMbY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Divl_I-pyg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-xYMwfe_Vc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQs6jZOqcRE&NR=1

[Evil Genius]

Firstly I have never seen a Celtic fan fly that flag, and would suggest that it is misleading to put this up in a thread.

I have never seen Australia, either, but I know it exists. And I'm pretty sure that that flag was designed by and paid for by a Celtic fan. And the reason I included it on here is because the very guy who started this thread states that he could never support the NI team whilst some of its fans carry e.g. Union Flags. Yet he has no difficulty supporting another team with fans who carry a flag like that.

No more that I can pin the murder of Kevin McDaid on Rangers FC is it morally acceptable to blame Celtic or their fans for that flag being made.

I did not blame either Celtic FC or their regular fans for that flag being made. Rather, I posted it as an example of the rank hypocrisy of the "Twisted Thread Starter", Fearon (see above).

In any case, it is a republican flag and not an IRA one because the slogan is republican rather than physical force republican.

See here from the Celtic 'TAL' (guess what it stands for) fanzine:

"When TAL was founded the term 'Tiocfaidh Ar La' (Our Day Will Come) seemed to sum up our hopes for our football club which was going through one of the most barren and trophyless periods of its history. The Irish phrase is one coined by republicans and expresses their desire for freedom and their struggle to establish a united 32 County democratic socialist republic in Ireland."

Let me see now. Celtic FC condemns anyone which would seek to connect them with an illegal organisation. The IRA is an illegal organisation. TAL seeks to deny any connection between its choice of name and the IRA. Well knock me down with a feather!

In this sense it may be a political phrase but it is not one which aids, abets or apologises for terrorists. It has been used by non violent republicans for years as well. Therefore by definition, and given that this phrase in itself is not an excuse for nor a glorification of terrorism, it is merely republican in the same way that the union flag is unionist.

Self-serving semantic bullshit!

Despite this strictly political aspect of the flag, it is not allowed in Celtic games.

So if the TAL flag is purely "political", why wouldn't Celtic allow it in Parkhead? After all, they allow unadorned Tricolours, which are also purely political.
Unless, of course, Celtic believe that the addition of TAL is a sight more sinister than you are claiming? Still, what would they know about such matters...

Why then is the union flag and the (outdated) ulster banner permitted to be brought into what is supposedly a neutral ground?

How is an international football match "neutral"?
Are you really saying that the IFA should prevent NI fans from bringing NI flags to an NI international football match?
What next, Scotland fans to be prevented from bring Scotland flags to Hampden, in case it should deter fans who are not Scottish Nationalists? Or fans of Spain being prevented from waving Spanish flags, in case it should discourage Catalans and Basques?
Indeed, why not go the whole hog and prevent Celtic or ROI fans from bringing simple Tricolours to Parkhead or Thomond, since by your reasoning (above), such flags are political in nature and therefore contrary to a "neutral" political environment.

Barking, simply barking...



P.S. I note you are avoiding answering my question about what similarly provocative flags you have seen NI fans wave at Windsor...

[Rav67]

And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.

Evil, I think my statement covers each and every country that plays a friendly with Israhell.
I make no exceptions at all.

Fair enough. And I assume you would say the same about clubs who sign Israeli players like eg Eyal Berkovic? (Btw, I am not assuming you are a Celtic fan, this is more for the benefit of that fearless opponent of prejudice in whatever form it takes, or wherever it resides, Tony Fearon...)

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8045392/175/

"Celtic was a big mistake for me, that's for sure. Celtic never understood me , and I for sure never understood them. It was a club with an image which was full of its own self importance and role in the world. The club was going through a troubled time and when manager John Barnes got the sack, my days there were numbered. It's hard to say this but I feel that I have to point out that Celtic, certainly at that time did not react well to people who they did not consider were 'one of them". I am Jewish and proud of my religion and background, Barnes and Ian Wright felt the same as me, and they were quickly ostracised when results went against us. After one midweek game which we lost, Wright and Barnes were subject to really disgraceful racial abuse in the car park. It was at that point I knew I had to get out. I found it really disconcerting having to play in front of a huge crowd where many fans had PLO flags and celebrated terrorist actions. They were backing an organization which, after all, wanted the destruction of the State of Israel. How could I give one hundred percent for such a club with an ethos like that?
The Celtic Rangers games were utter madness, and I had to remind myself for which club I was playing! I always stood up for the sovereignty of the nation and the right of law. Celtic seemed to be going for the opposite, by supporting terrorist groups from Spain, Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. It was crazy!"

Hows about read the comments below the thread.  Some guy posted this article which was apparently taken from an 'Israeli media source'- funniliy enough no reference to the actual link!  I think this is about as true as the Marco Negri "qoutes" from an 'Italian media source'.

You've got slagged on here for copying and pasting chunks of wikipedia but trying to rely on a few paragpraphs which were more than likely typed up by a Rangers fan in his bedroom- truly laughable!

[Evil Genius]

And the same goes for any other country for inviting them to play in a friendly.

Evil, I think my statement covers each and every country that plays a friendly with Israhell.
I make no exceptions at all.

Fair enough. And I assume you would say the same about clubs who sign Israeli players like eg Eyal Berkovic? (Btw, I am not assuming you are a Celtic fan, this is more for the benefit of that fearless opponent of prejudice in whatever form it takes, or wherever it resides, Tony Fearon...)

http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8045392/175/

"Celtic was a big mistake for me, that's for sure. Celtic never understood me , and I for sure never understood them. It was a club with an image which was full of its own self importance and role in the world. The club was going through a troubled time and when manager John Barnes got the sack, my days there were numbered. It's hard to say this but I feel that I have to point out that Celtic, certainly at that time did not react well to people who they did not consider were 'one of them". I am Jewish and proud of my religion and background, Barnes and Ian Wright felt the same as me, and they were quickly ostracised when results went against us. After one midweek game which we lost, Wright and Barnes were subject to really disgraceful racial abuse in the car park. It was at that point I knew I had to get out. I found it really disconcerting having to play in front of a huge crowd where many fans had PLO flags and celebrated terrorist actions. They were backing an organization which, after all, wanted the destruction of the State of Israel. How could I give one hundred percent for such a club with an ethos like that?
The Celtic Rangers games were utter madness, and I had to remind myself for which club I was playing! I always stood up for the sovereignty of the nation and the right of law. Celtic seemed to be going for the opposite, by supporting terrorist groups from Spain, Ireland, the Middle East and Africa. It was crazy!"

Absolutely nothing to do with the club at all. I'm not shying away from responsibility but if you're going to level racist charges at Celtic because their fans allegedly abused Berkovic, Wright and Barnes then we could be here all day calling the IFA out on the actions of their fans. Considering that Bertie Peacock was captain of Celtic, and that many Protestants played for the club, it's a very strange accusation to level at Celtic to suggest that they, as a club, were discriminating against individuals and 'supporting terrorist groups'. The desire for the 'destruction of Israel' is nowhere to be found in the ethos of Celtic, shockingly.

Thank you for that answer, but I repeat, my point was directed at Fearon, who started this thread, namely how can you condemn one team on the basis that a section of their fans may be prejudiced, yet still support another team, who have prejudiced fans amongst its own support?

Btw, I'm still waiting to hear what similarly provocative flags to the TAL Tricolour have you seen at Windsor Park? Unless, of course, you are referring to the eirigi flag waved at the recent game vs Poland? By an away supporter? 

[stibhan]

It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

[stibhan]

Thank you for that answer, but I repeat, my point was directed at Fearon, who started this thread, namely how can you condemn one team on the basis that a section of their fans may be prejudiced, yet still support another team, who have prejudiced fans amongst its own support?

I have yet to hear the Irish national anthem played over the loudspeakers in Celtic Park. I have seen a poppy display at Celtic Park--I have yet to see an easter lily being worn at Windsor Park. It's about institutions and collectives--not individuals whom no-one can legislate for.

Btw, I'm still waiting to hear what similarly provocative flags to the TAL Tricolour have you seen at Windsor Park? Unless, of course, you are referring to the eirigi flag waved at the recent game vs Poland? By an away supporter? 

I equated the 'TAL tricolour'--which I would welcome you to show me a picture of being flown at Celtic Park--to all flags of a political nature. The Ulster Banner, for example, is a banner of a sectarian government and has no place at any sporting event.

[Rossfan]

. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the  IFA situation.

[MW]

whats a Celtic sectarian flag look like?

I find it rather ironic, though by no means surprising, that Fearon can castigate the supporters of one team for flying flags which he finds objectionable, but doesn't mind supporting another team himself, some of whose supporters go out of their way to get their own (ahem) provocative flags professionally printed.




I have never seen the flag in question at a Celtic bar or a Celtic game. Nor have I seen one at an Ireland game. The games are well stewarded in this regard with the apparent exception of North of Ireland games.

Wouldn't imagine Irish club cricket needs a great deal of stewarding in the first place...

[MW]

It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Cutting through all your crap, you'd basically like it if we pretended it wasn't a Northern Ireland team.

Or even better, just disappeared completely.

[MW]

. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Excellent sensible contribution which sums up the  IFA situation.

Yeah, suggestung using the Republic of Ireland's national anthem and flag for Northern Ireland games is a "sensible contribution" right enough

[020304 Tir Eoghain]

Name me one piece of postive action the ifa or its fans have taken to widen the support base for their team.

Hnaging up Give Sectarianism the Boot banners doesn't count.

Tony why would you want to widen the support base of this "team"?

[carribbear]

Still don't see why Celtic is being equated with the 6 county statelet team. Why isnt Rangers being thrown in there if that was the case?


The big difference lest some of our 'GAA readers' forget is that the 6 county statelet team is supposed to represent both traditions. Rangers and Celtic will never do the same due to their history.

[MW]

The Northern Ireland team isn't "supposed to represent both traditions".

It's there to represent Northern Ireland.

[Roger]

It's ridiculous even trying to argue with any of you. Northern Ireland is a divided state--the republic is certainly not divided to the same extent. The flags used by a vast majority of the crowd are offensive to a considerably large section of the populace within that state. If such flags are flown at Northern Ireland grounds then the institution that aids and funds that team is failing in its job to provide soccer to every section of the community. Let's look at the stated ethos of the IFA:

'"The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All".'

'Regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs.' By what logic is the Northern Irish football team's fanbase anything but a monogenous culture of protestant unionism, with a few small exceptions? Surely 'diversity' would mean Irish language programmes, the Irish national flag and the Irish national anthem? If not then why should any unionist songs/flags be on show?

Your problem is that you don't recognise Northern Ireland.  Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland or England or Scotland or Wales cannot represent everyone in terms of symbols, identity or cultural diversity if people simply opt out and choose to opt for something outside the bounds of reality.

[Roger]

the 6 county statelet team

Reality must really hurt you.