South Belfast North of Ireland Supporters Club

[Evil Genius]

What the fcuk has a  tricolour carried by an individual with a Celtic emblem and the words "Tiocfaidh ar La" got to do with anything?

It's quite simple, really. You object to the whole concept of the NI team, on the basis that you object to what you assume to be the politics of some of its fans. Yet you proudly support another team, a section of whose supporters are known for espousing opinions on religion and politics etc which are a sight more objectionable.
And just so as there be no misunderstanding, that is not a criticism of Celtic FC, since there is an obvious limit as to how much they might be expected to answer for people who latch onto the club.
Rather, it is a direct criticism of you and your rank hypocrisy.

The slogan could be a reference to Celtic Football Club achieveing success on the field.

And I'm Pope Benedict XVI...

But hey, you go on making that sort of claim - no doubt you think it clever, but it only reduces your credibility to somewhere below zero.  

[T Fearon]

I don't object to the concept of any football team even if I do think its sad that football can not be promoted on an isalnd wide basis in Ireland, as I think it would be the most beneifical way by far to promote it.

What I do object to is the crap being spouted from various mouthpieces (like Mr Mc Allister in the Belfast Telegraph a few days ago when he apportioned the blame for the violence at the recent North of Ireland Poland game entirely to Polish thugs), as to how the North of Ireland fans have eradicated sectarianism, how they are all inclusive etc when the truth is that they have done nothing of the sort and a significant number won't even admit that they ever had a problem.

Do you think that it is not ridiculous that a club whose members vehemently claim to be non sectarian has its premises festooned with loyalist regalia? Do you think this will increase the likelihood of the North of Ireland team widening its monocultural support base?

[carribbear]

It's quite simple, really. You object to the whole concept of the NI team, on the basis that you object to what you assume to be the politics of some of its fans. Yet you proudly support another team, a section of whose supporters are known for espousing opinions on religion and politics etc which are a sight more objectionable.
And just so as there be no misunderstanding, that is not a criticism of Celtic FC, since there is an obvious limit as to how much they might be expected to answer for people who latch onto the club.
Rather, it is a direct criticism of you and your rank hypocrisy.
But hey, you go on making that sort of claim - no doubt you think it clever, but it only reduces your credibility to somewhere below zero.  

dont forget those Rangers FC chaps....good lad.

[Evil Genius]

What I do object to is the crap being spouted from various mouthpieces (like Mr Mc Allister in the Belfast Telegraph a few days ago when he apportioned the blame for the violence at the recent North of Ireland Poland game entirely to Polish thugs), as to how the North of Ireland fans have eradicated sectarianism, how they are all inclusive etc when the truth is that they have done nothing of the sort and a significant number won't even admit that they ever had a problem.

How do you square the above rant with what Ziggy reported on another thread:

"Was chatting to my cousin last night. Told me he was at the game on Wednesday night too in Windsor Park. Said that things have changed from the last time he was there. A very relaxed atmosphere and non of the old sectarism from before. There's still a serious dislike for the RoI soccer team, but it's more of a healthy rivarly now than anything else. Felt safe in it too and he recommended for me to head up for a match sometime to see for myself"

I guess either Ziggy or his cousin is lying, then?

After all, it couldn't be you, could it...

[nifan]

What the fcuk has a  tricolour carried by an individual with a Celtic emblem and the words "Tiocfaidh ar La" got to do with anything? The slogan could be a reference to Celtic Football Club achieveing success on the field.

And the boys who shout "no surrender" during GSTQ are talking about not surrendering on the pitch

[T Fearon]

We  are straying from the point (in otherwords you are clutching at straws again) which is that arguably The North of Ireland Supporters Club with the highest profile is festooned with loyalist regalia even though its members claim to be non sectarian. ie Its not a few isolated dickheads adding the words No Surrender to the England team's National Anthem or a tool carrying a bastardised Ulster Flag complete with IFA emblem and YCV slogan for example. Discuss and Explain with particular emphasis on the following points

Are North of Ireland fans sectarian or not?

Are they correct in being self congratulatory for having eradicated sectarianism?

Should Mr Rainey refuse to accept his OBE?

[nifan]

Are North of Ireland fans sectarian or not?

Some are many arent - hard to ask of pretty much any large group in northern ireland.

Are they correct in being self congratulatory for having eradicated sectarianism?

Nobody has claimed it has been eradicated. Many people are rightly happy at the work that has been done - and continues to be done. People are still working on a lot of stuff for FFA.

Should Mr Rainey refuse to accept his OBE?

Only if he doesnt agree with such awards. Jim deserves every regognition in the world. His work over the last 10 years has been much more beneficial to society than your type of input could ever be. Ive been involved with Jim on a number of things in the past and could not say enough good things about him and what he does.

[T Fearon]

Next questions;

Why does the IFA side attract a core of hardline loyalist only bigots to its games and its supporters clubs?

Why does the IFA side attract no support whatsoever from the catholic/nationalist population?

Does the IFA's exclusive use of unionist symbols etc act as a magnet for those who wish to give expression to their politics at sporting occasions and if so would discontinuing their use not have the opposite effect?

[T Fearon]

I offer for your consideration this view from a contributor to the Belfast Telegraph. It is a rather damning indictment of the IFA don't you think?



"The Northern Ireland team represents a fragment of a fragmented part of a fragmented island. It is not an all embracing team like the Irish Rugby team that has a following from different social and political classes. It is sectarian to the core, a team whose followers have atually threatened some of its own star players. What more can be said ? In the north there are two national teams, NI & The ROI. Bewildering to many people from other countries. This issues is just not worth losing sleep over, better to enjoy what can be achieved in rugby when intelligence overrides tribal sectarianism."



Posted by S Ó Cearbhaill | 14.08.09, 14:15 GMT

[nifan]

Why does the IFA side attract a core of hardline loyalist only bigots to its games and its supporters clubs?

Not sure I understand your question? Are you implying that we should attract hardline republican bigots?
How many hardline bigots are you talking about. Not aware of many in my supporters club.

Why does the IFA side attract no support whatsoever from the catholic/nationalist population?

It does not attract "no" support from catholics. Obviously those who are nationalists and believe that NI should not exist are going to be reluctant to support a team representing NI. Fair play to them - they have their views. Why would they support NI?  Then there are the prople who cant even say NI, and refer to the team as North of Ireland etc. Why would they support NI?

Does the IFA's exclusive use of unionist symbols etc act as a magnet for those who wish to give expression to their politics at sporting occasions and if so would discontinuing their use not have the opposite effect?

Dunno the point in arguing this with you - you are happy with "exclusive use of symbols" in one place but not another, and you've got a weasely rationale for this. I would say that shamrocks, "irish" fa, green shirts etc could not be seen as symbols of one community - but I would be happy to ditch GSTQ.

[nifan]

from different social and political classes

What social class does he think exclusively  goes to the football?

[Evil Genius]

We  are straying from the point

No the whole point of this thread is that it is an attempt by you to discredit the IFA,  NI team and all its fans etc, by a mixture of tribal rant, propaganda and outright lies.

One example of this is where you claimed:
"What I do object to is the crap being spouted from various mouthpieces...     ...as to how the North of Ireland fans have eradicated sectarianism, how they are all inclusive etc when the truth is that they have done nothing of the sort and a significant number won't even admit that they ever had a problem"

All of which blithely ignores clear evidence to the contrary, such as that posted by Ziggy from as recently as Wednesday's game. Which, in case you failed to notice, went as follows:
"Was chatting to my cousin last night. Told me he was at the game on Wednesday night too in Windsor Park. Said that things have changed from the last time he was there. A very relaxed atmosphere and non of the old sectarism from before. There's still a serious dislike for the RoI soccer team, but it's more of a healthy rivarly now than anything else. Felt safe in it too and he recommended for me to head up for a match sometime to see for myself"

So I'll ask again the question, how do you square your description of NI football with that of Ziggy's?

Back to you.

[Evil Genius]

I offer for your consideration this view from a contributor to the Belfast Telegraph. It is a rather damning indictment of the IFA don't you think?



"The Northern Ireland team represents a fragment of a fragmented part of a fragmented island. It is not an all embracing team like the Irish Rugby team that has a following from different social and political classes. It is sectarian to the core, a team whose followers have atually threatened some of its own star players. What more can be said ? In the north there are two national teams, NI & The ROI. Bewildering to many people from other countries. This issues is just not worth losing sleep over, better to enjoy what can be achieved in rugby when intelligence overrides tribal sectarianism."



Posted by S Ó Cearbhaill | 14.08.09, 14:15 GMT

Here's a deal. How about I answer your question (emboldened) after you answer the question which I've already asked you twice (i.e. Ziggy's account)?

Back to you.

[T Fearon]

So what if one person's experience is not unpleasant? I myself have been to countless numbers of North Of Ireland games and not felt uncomfortable but  I have also felt no empathy with the team or that it was playing for or representing me.

Its up to the IFA to create a particularly neutral environment which in turn might widen the support base of the team and will certainly discourage thos who use North of Ireland games as a means of political expression/triumphalism currently

[carribbear]

No the whole point of this thread is that it is an attempt by you to discredit the IFA,  NI team and all its fans etc, by a mixture of tribal rant, propaganda and outright lies.

Lies?
So you're saying that the 6 county statelet fans are NOT sectarian and the IFA have clamped down on them?