Assisted suicides

[J70]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7675745.stm

Has anyone ever heard of "assisted suicides" before?

I wasn't aware any such thing was legal. I knew euthanasia in some places but not this.

Very very wrong in my opinion.

You never heard of Jack Kevorkian?

Euthanasia/assisted suicide is obviously a very difficult issue, as others have said.

However, assuming the legal right to kill one's self exists, would it not be a denial of someone's rights not to allow them to have someone assist them in doing this if they were otherwise unable?

[J70]

I have never heard of Jack nor assisted suicides but I remember Dot Cotton was involved in something like this in Eastenders.
Is there a difference between assisted suicide and euthanasia?

Kevorkian is a doctor who went to prison for eight years in the states for carrying out euthanasia and assisted suicide. He published a video of it and challenged the authorities to do something about it.

As regards the difference between the two, it is only in who administers the lethal act. If you help someone commit suicide by knowingly providing them with the means to do it e.g. a syringe full of a lethal drug dose, it is assisting. If you inject them yourself, it is euthanasia. It can be a very fine line.

[ardmhachaabu]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7675745.stm

Has anyone ever heard of "assisted suicides" before?

I wasn't aware any such thing was legal. I knew euthanasia in some places but not this.

Very very wrong in my opinion.

You never heard of Jack Kevorkian?

Euthanasia/assisted suicide is obviously a very difficult issue, as others have said.

However, assuming the legal right to kill one's self exists, would it not be a denial of someone's rights not to allow them to have someone assist them in doing this if they were otherwise unable?

That's a big assumption to make.

Anyway, 'assisted suicide' or 'euthanasia' are both on extremely dodgy moral ground.  Also, at what point is it euthanasisa or assisted suicide and what point is it murder?  Who says so and how do they differentiate between the 2?  How does any government legislate against people murdering others, calling it euthanasia and say collecting on the insurance money?

There is nothing difficult about it, it is morally wrong in all circumstances.

[J70]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7675745.stm

Has anyone ever heard of "assisted suicides" before?

I wasn't aware any such thing was legal. I knew euthanasia in some places but not this.

Very very wrong in my opinion.

You never heard of Jack Kevorkian?

Euthanasia/assisted suicide is obviously a very difficult issue, as others have said.

However, assuming the legal right to kill one's self exists, would it not be a denial of someone's rights not to allow them to have someone assist them in doing this if they were otherwise unable?

That's a big assumption to make.

Anyway, 'assisted suicide' or 'euthanasia' are both on extremely dodgy moral ground.  Also, at what point is it euthanasisa or assisted suicide and what point is it murder?  Who says so and how do they differentiate between the 2?  How does any government legislate against people murdering others, calling it euthanasia and say collecting on the insurance money?

There is nothing difficult about it, it is morally wrong in all circumstances.

So suicide is against the law then?

As to the morality of it, you're entitled to your opinion. It is not a black and white moral issue to me.

[ardmhachaabu]

J70, I didn't say suicide was against the law

Regarding the morality of it, Socrates and Plato would have both said your interpretation of morality was wrong if you don't think this is clear cut...

[J70]

J70, I didn't say suicide was against the law

You said that "assuming" that "the legal right to kill one's self exists" was a big assumption. Either suicide is illegal or it isn't.

Regarding the morality of it, Socrates and Plato would have both said your interpretation of morality was wrong if you don't think this is clear cut...

Greek philosophy is not a strong point of mine, so please elaborate, if you don't mind!

[ardmhachaabu]

J70, I didn't say suicide was against the law

You said that "assuming" that "the legal right to kill one's self exists" was a big assumption. Either suicide is illegal or it isn't.

Jeez, ok, if you want to be really pernickety about it then, ok, the legal right to kill oneself doesn't exist.  But, like, what's going to happen to you if you do commit suicide?

Regarding the morality of it, Socrates and Plato would have both said your interpretation of morality was wrong if you don't think this is clear cut...

Greek philosophy is not a strong point of mine, so please elaborate, if you don't mind!

From what you said it seems to me that your interpretation of what is moral is somewhat skewed.  You don't seem to take into consideration others apart from the self in the act of suicide.  That is a big mistake to make.  Socrates and Plato would have ripped you to shreds for being so selfish in your outlook.

[Rav67]

J70, I didn't say suicide was against the law

You said that "assuming" that "the legal right to kill one's self exists" was a big assumption. Either suicide is illegal or it isn't.

Jeez, ok, if you want to be really pernickety about it then, ok, the legal right to kill oneself doesn't exist.  But, like, what's going to happen to you if you do commit suicide?

Suicide's not illegal and hasn't been for a long time so the legal right to kill oneself does exist.

[Hardy]

Your wife is terminally ill. She is suffering excruciating pain. This will go on for months. She pleads with you to help. Her only release from the pain will come with death. All she wants you to do is put the bottle of pills where she can reach it.

What do you do?

[pintsofguinness]

What if she needed constant care, you got a little fed up of it after a while and you've your eye on this one next door.  What's to stop you feeding her pills and claiming she got you to?

[brokencrossbar1]

legally this is a very dangerous area.  It all comes down to the passive and the active.  Like Hardy says do you leave the pills in a place where she can find them or do you give her the pills and the glass of water?  I have great difficulty with the concept having seen at first hand, the effect that suicide has on families.  But whose rights trump the other? 

The notion of assisted suicide is that the person who wants to die is given a comfortable and controlled environment to commit the act.  They then take the final decision to actually end their own life.  In law there is a term called the chain of causation and this is where the action and the event outcome are linked.  You would hear often of the chain of evidence.  In the case of assisted suicide where does this chain begin and does it ever break.  If it can be shown that someone did an action which inevitably made it a definite outcome that death would occur then I think you are into manslaughter grounds. 

Morally I do not feel we have the right to be the final arbitrators on who should live or die?  I watched my father die, and many times during his sickness I prayed that God end his pain and questioned why he should be made suffer.  However, I never felt that I had the right to advance his end.  If someone is capable to end their own pain in their own environment, that is their decision, but it should not be facilitated by an organisation who, lets face it, for all their "compassion" are a business and get paid everytime they allow someone to kill themselves.

[Maguire01]

In principle, i'd definitely support someone's right to end their own lives, or seek help to do so.

Why should someone be forced to live through pain and suffering just because of someone else's moral viewpoint? Morals are subjective.

Having said that, i fully acknowledge the points made regarding the lagal minefield that such legislation could create.

[orangeman]

HERE IS THE INSIDE STORY AS TOLD BY HIS MOTHER :



The mother of a paralysed rugby player who died in a Swiss assisted suicide clinic had defended in an e-mail debate her son's right to die, it has emerged.

Daniel James, 23, of Worcester, died on 12 September, and police have since confirmed they are investigating.

His mother Julie e-mailed the Daily Telegraph's website on 4 October, urging readers not to judge him.

She also criticised a woman - described as "well meaning" - for reporting their journey to Switzerland to police.

Mr James's mother and father Mark, from Sinton Green, Worcester, are under investigation over the death.

Their son suffered a collapsed spine in a scrum during a training session at Nuneaton Rugby Club in March 2007, which left him paralysed from the chest down.

  Our son could not have been more loved and had he felt he could live his life this way he would have been loved just the same

Julie James
Earlier this month Julie James e-mailed the Telegraph website in response to a separate debate about the story of a terminally ill woman Debbie Purdy, who is fighting for clarification of the law on assisted suicide.

Mrs James's e-mail said her son felt he had no option other than to travel to the clinic.

"We returned from Switzerland on the 12 September after accompanying our... son who had been left tetraplegic after a rugby accident," she wrote.

"Dan found his life so unbearable and had tried to commit suicide three times, other than to starve himself to travel to Switzerland was his only option.

"Whilst we were away some 'well meaning' person involved with social services took it upon herself to call the police.

"This person had never met Dan before or after his accident and obviously gave no consideration for our younger daughters who had seen their big brother suffer so much, and the day before had to say goodbye to him.

"I hope that one day I will get the chance to speak to this lady and ask if she had a son, daughter, father, mother, who could not walk, had no hand function, was incontinent, and relied upon 24-hour care for every basic need and they had asked her for support, what would she have done?!

"Our son could not have been more loved and had he felt he could live his life this way he would have been loved just the same but this was his right as a human being, nobody but nobody should judge him or anyone else."

'Fear and loathing'

Speaking after news emerged of the police inquiry, Mrs James and her husband said their son - who also played for the England Universities and England Students rugby teams - did not want to live a second-class existence.

They described him as an intelligent young man of sound mind, who was strong-willed and determined.


Daniel James was described as a "fantastic" rugby player

The clinic Dignitas, where all known British assisted suicides have taken place, said that because of privacy laws it could not disclose whether Mr James had been one of its members.

Assisted suicide is illegal in the UK, although the practice is tolerated by the authorities in Switzerland.

Under UK law, helping somebody die carries a sentence of up to 14 years. But no relatives of the 100 UK citizens who have gone to Dignitas clinics to die have been prosecuted.

Debbie Purdy, 45, who has multiple sclerosis, is considering going to Switzerland if her pain becomes unbearable.

But she is fighting to have the UK law clarified so she can avoid her husband being prosecuted on his return for assisting her.

According to campaign group Dignity in Dying Mr James is believed to be the youngest person from Britain to have gone to Switzerland to take his own life.

An inquest into his death was opened and adjourned on 19 September.

[pintsofguinness]

"Whilst we were away some 'well meaning' person involved with social services took it upon herself to call the police.

"This person had never met Dan before or after his accident and obviously gave no consideration for our younger daughters who had seen their big brother suffer so much, and the day before had to say goodbye to him.

"I hope that one day I will get the chance to speak to this lady and ask if she had a son, daughter, father, mother, who could not walk, had no hand function, was incontinent, and relied upon 24-hour care for every basic need and they had asked her for support, what would she have done?!

"Our son could not have been more loved and had he felt he could live his life this way he would have been loved just the same but this was his right as a human being, nobody but nobody should judge him or anyone else."

Am I the only one that thinks what I've highlighted is a little strange? Why bring the daughters in to it? Obviously no one wants to see a family member (or anyone) paralysed but that doesn't mean you bring them to a clinic to have them killed!
I've less and less sympathy for the parents the more I read about this case, their son was obviously was having an extremely hard time coming to terms with his injuries and adjusting as would most of us.  Their job imo is to help him through it and help him adjust.  If someone close to you had depression and wanted to die you wouldn't help them committ suicide!

[Diet Coke]

Unless any of us on here have had the same experiences as these people I don't think we are in a position to judge.

For example.....what do you think of living wills.......I have instructed my next of kin to do the needful should I require it.