Ulster Final 2008 - Armagh vs Fermanagh

[Onion Bag]

Poor game of football, last 20 minutes provided great excitement though.  Ref robbed Fermanagh.  Armagh are no better  than Tyrone this year ... or any year.  They are no closer to Sam than Tyrone at the moment.  All to play for.  if Armagh win the next day it will be the second time in 4 yeas that officialdom has give Armagh an Ulster championship final.

What are you blabbering on about rrhf, 2nd Ulster in 4 years that officialdom have given to Armagh, Explain?

[upthehoops]

sorry AFS to quote you "wouldn't be for throwing Donaghy in at the deep end just yet) and McKinney would struggle under high ball too. "

i think heart is an absolute disaster under the high ball ... never forget cross v e. ciaran in x , he shit the bags with a 5' 6'' lad comin in. he always takes his eye off the ball no matter size of man comin in


as for donaghy in at the deep end.....laughable.......how he  got took off again down i'll never know...he was playin a stormer



if armagh play like they can and don't play like they're scared of fermanagh next day we'll be ok....IE play the 6 up front !!!!

Hearty has always been dodgy under the high ball and distribution is suspect.

Francie is a spent force at this level

[armaghniac]

2nd Ulster in 4 years that officialdom have given to Armagh

Considering that the official allowed a goal for Fermanagh resulting from a square ball, you cannot say that he did Armagh any favours on balance.

[bennydorano]

Ach ffs down be entertaining that rrhf clown.

One positive thing that may come out of yesterday is that Armagh will be absolutely disgusted with themselves this morning while Fermanagh will have some sense of satisfaction, probably a good position for us to be planning for a replay.

If Vernon starts the next day he should start at CHF and compete in MF, it seems to me that thus far he has been told to stay out of the MF exchanges.

[Onion Bag]

What was that clown Gallagher at yesterday, He wouldnt shake Stevies hand b4 the game and was mouthing in his ear all day, waving his arms at the crowd and all that, someone from Fermanagh would need to have a wee word in his ear,

And just when im in the mood for complaining, i thought the sportmanship from a huge amount of fermanagh fans was a disgrace, There is nothing as bad as someone taking a free kick and getting booed from the opposition fans, Jasus i hate that

[mackers]

Should have been beaten, very little doubt about it.  Midfield while not great, is not the biggest problem, breakball is. Fermanagh at every kickout seemed to have at least one or two more men in the mix and this comes from the role that AOR plays.  I said it 2 or 3 months ago that the role he plays is a luxury that better teams will exploit it if they can play the extra man effectively and Fermanagh obviuosly can(and that is not a criticism of AOR, but the role).  I have yet to see Armagh's half backs in the mix for break balls, Fermanagh's half backs and half forwards seem to be mobile enough to compete in both teams' kickouts.

Armagh's substitutions didn't work, the one substitution that should have been made wasn't, Brendan Donaghy for AK, AK and SK were both brutal, the half forward line was non-exisitent again (MOR was the best performer but well short of his NFL standard). Vernon and Mallon will be lucky to keep their places, but the HF options are limited.

For the replay Mcdonnell has to show ruthlessness, Hearty, AK, Vernon, Mallon should all be looking over their shoulders.  (I would have to give SK the benefit of the doubt on the strength of his first 2 games).  

Maybe we've got the kick up the arse that Kerry can get and get away with but I dont think we'll win the replay.  I think our limitations were exposed, at the start of the year I thought an Ulster was possible and an AI a very very long shot, we are a team in transition whether McDonnell likes to acknowledge it or not.

Excellent post, benny, on reflection it was the breaking ball area and not midfield as such that cost us. McGrane and Toner have to expect more from their HBs and HFs (thought Toner was Armagh's best player besides Stevie).
A one point win yesterday would have been a hollow victory and I would expect a much improved performance next Sunday. In 2002 when we did the same against Sligo, the team picked themselves up and kicked on, we'll see whether this team has that in them now.
Big test for McDonnell now as he has Armagh's excellent record in replays to extend with some major issues to address before Sunday.

[T Fearon]

Two years in a row now we have been victim in the Ulster Championship due to an illegitimate goal which was clearly a square ball. I am convinced that last year would have turned out very different had we beaten Donegal, which we would have done with an alert umpire.

Isn't it team the microscope focussed on the shortcomings of umpires instead of referees? I mean how hard can it be to discern whether a ball is over the bar or wide or whether a man is in the square or not, when you are permanently stationed next to the posts ffs

Also anyone else thing that the Fermanagh goalkeeper was a complete maggot for baiting Stevie constantly in the first half?. I also heard he spat at Mc Donnell which I hope is false?

[brokencrossbar1]

Could have lost, but to still be in the game after completely shutting off is still a good thing in my book.

In defence Paul was a bit suspect under the high ball and was lucky on the occassion that it hit his or Francies legs.  The defence had been doing well as a defensive unit until the last 15 minutes.  We started losing in the middle of the field and then the pressure on the defence was immense. MOR going off was a key part of this but also the McGrane blew out of steam.  Once the ball was coming into the Fermanagh forward line as often as it was there was only ever going to be one outcome.  

The half forward line was poor yesterday and I think that Mallon showed that he is still not up to match pace yet.  He was slower in his reactions.  Charlie Vernon showed a lot of naivety and when thongs needed to be cooled down they didn't have the wherewithall to do that.  SK was very quiet and looked very nervous on the ball.  Paddy McK looked hungery when he came on and may have forced his way back into the starting team for the replay.  

The thing is though, that for all the platitudes going top Fermanagh and the criticism of Armagh the reality is that for 50 minutes of the game Armagh bossed it. They might not have had the scores on the scoreboard but they were the dominant team.  Even when Fermanagh were making the comeback Armagh seemed to be able to match them score for score and even after the goal they Armagh hit an excellent point to keep the gap.  I actually think that they were nervous, that they didn't want to be the team that let Fermanagh win their first Ulster and consequently went into preservation mode and that does not suit them.  The need to take control of the game to suit their style and when they do that they are hard to stop.  

Yesterday another MF should have gone in alongside the McGrane and Toner with 15 minutes left.  Put a line of big men across the middle of the park and as the French General at Verdun said "Ils ne passeront pas", but that did not happen.

In the replay, the only change would be McKeever in for either Vernon or Mallon, probably Mallon but if changes need to be made they have to be done early and decisively.  I believe they will win the replay as I do not think Fermanagh can add much more to their game from yesterday while Armagh have a lot of lessons learned.

[rrhf]

Mc Donnell the footballer was hot yesterday, Mc Donnell the manager had a stinker, ran the bench and nearly cost Armagh an Ulster title.  The Goalkeepers duel with MC Donnell was embarassing.     

[Onion Bag]

Could have lost, but to still be in the game after completely shutting off is still a good thing in my book.

In defence Paul was a bit suspect under the high ball and was lucky on the occassion that it hit his or Francies legs.  The defence had been doing well as a defensive unit until the last 15 minutes.  We started losing in the middle of the field and then the pressure on the defence was immense. MOR going off was a key part of this but also the McGrane blew out of steam.  Once the ball was coming into the Fermanagh forward line as often as it was there was only ever going to be one outcome.  

The half forward line was poor yesterday and I think that Mallon showed that he is still not up to match pace yet.  He was slower in his reactions.  Charlie Vernon showed a lot of naivety and when thongs needed to be cooled down they didn't have the wherewithall to do that.  SK was very quiet and looked very nervous on the ball.  Paddy McK looked hungery when he came on and may have forced his way back into the starting team for the replay.  

The thing is though, that for all the platitudes going top Fermanagh and the criticism of Armagh the reality is that for 50 minutes of the game Armagh bossed it. They might not have had the scores on the scoreboard but they were the dominant team.  Even when Fermanagh were making the comeback Armagh seemed to be able to match them score for score and even after the goal they Armagh hit an excellent point to keep the gap.  I actually think that they were nervous, that they didn't want to be the team that let Fermanagh win their first Ulster and consequently went into preservation mode and that does not suit them.  The need to take control of the game to suit their style and when they do that they are hard to stop.  

Yesterday another MF should have gone in alongside the McGrane and Toner with 15 minutes left.  Put a line of big men across the middle of the park and as the French General at Verdun said "Ils ne passeront pas", but that did not happen.

In the replay, the only change would be McKeever in for either Vernon or Mallon, probably Mallon but if changes need to be made they have to be done early and decisively.  I believe they will win the replay as I do not think Fermanagh can add much more to their game from yesterday while Armagh have a lot of lessons learned.

Only for Mallon we would never have got both goals, he set up both pf them and he chased back when others were standing with hands on hips,

[brokencrossbar1]

Could have lost, but to still be in the game after completely shutting off is still a good thing in my book.

In defence Paul was a bit suspect under the high ball and was lucky on the occassion that it hit his or Francies legs.  The defence had been doing well as a defensive unit until the last 15 minutes.  We started losing in the middle of the field and then the pressure on the defence was immense. MOR going off was a key part of this but also the McGrane blew out of steam.  Once the ball was coming into the Fermanagh forward line as often as it was there was only ever going to be one outcome.  

The half forward line was poor yesterday and I think that Mallon showed that he is still not up to match pace yet.  He was slower in his reactions.  Charlie Vernon showed a lot of naivety and when thongs needed to be cooled down they didn't have the wherewithall to do that.  SK was very quiet and looked very nervous on the ball.  Paddy McK looked hungery when he came on and may have forced his way back into the starting team for the replay.  

The thing is though, that for all the platitudes going top Fermanagh and the criticism of Armagh the reality is that for 50 minutes of the game Armagh bossed it. They might not have had the scores on the scoreboard but they were the dominant team.  Even when Fermanagh were making the comeback Armagh seemed to be able to match them score for score and even after the goal they Armagh hit an excellent point to keep the gap.  I actually think that they were nervous, that they didn't want to be the team that let Fermanagh win their first Ulster and consequently went into preservation mode and that does not suit them.  The need to take control of the game to suit their style and when they do that they are hard to stop.  

Yesterday another MF should have gone in alongside the McGrane and Toner with 15 minutes left.  Put a line of big men across the middle of the park and as the French General at Verdun said "Ils ne passeront pas", but that did not happen.

In the replay, the only change would be McKeever in for either Vernon or Mallon, probably Mallon but if changes need to be made they have to be done early and decisively.  I believe they will win the replay as I do not think Fermanagh can add much more to their game from yesterday while Armagh have a lot of lessons learned.

Only for Mallon we would never have got both goals, he set up both pf them and he chased back when others were standing with hands on hips,

I still think though that he is not up to full match pace yet.  We need him but I think he will give us more in the last 20-25 minutes at the moment rather than starting him.  When defences are tired and the game is open he has the ability to use the spaces to create scoring chances.  The last 15 minutes we didn't have a link between the backs and the FF line and he would have been the ideal man for that role.

[MacCruiskeen]

Bennydorano hit the nail on the head as regards midfield problems. Toner and  McGrane (though he tired in 2nd half)  were competitive but Fermanagh were able to deflect  the ball toward the vacant centre half back line or to our half forward line with impunity. Fermanagh players then picked up  uncontested loose ball. While McDonnell was good on the line against Down he failed to address this problem yesterday. I would consider moving A O'Rourke to centre half forward and allow him to drop back from there and play Donaghy in the middle of a conventional half back line.

I would also change Hearty as when the going gets tough he seems to add to the air of panic with kickouts over the sideline and becomes dodgy under the high ball (especially if there is traffic in and around the square)

[Onion Bag]

AK is getting an awful lot of stick, Since Aaron made his debut i never seen him play a bad match, he is human and humans make mistakes, the sort of shite i was listening to on the way out of clones yesterday you would have thought some of the players had murdered someone. but everyone needs to get behind these guys and rally them, we are still in the c'ship. We played absolute shite and still got a draw, Fermanagh people were celebrating after the game, they were happy with the draw, they must have had 70% of the possesion in the 2nd half and couldnt make it count, imagine the shoe in the other foot, it would have been like Dublin Wexford. Next week will tell a different tale and there is no way we can play that bad again

[illdecide]

McKinney has to start in goals for the replay and i hope Aaron K has learned his lesson after being dispossessed about 4 times not to mention kicking the ball to the opposition several times. McKeever possibly for Mallon although I'm not that convinced about Vernon i think he is still very raw. Paul Mac was poor yesterday and seems to be struggling to cope with the pace of the game although he could have done with a bit of help as mentioned b4. S Kernan was poor but I'm sure he will get another go at it as he has done well up till yesterday. All in all we won't have as many players play that bad again and i believe we will win the replay...

[brokencrossbar1]

AK is getting an awful lot of stick, Since Aaron made his debut i never seen him play a bad match, he is human and humans make mistakes, the sort of shite i was listening to on the way out of clones yesterday you would have thought some of the players had murdered someone. but everyone needs to get behind these guys and rally them, we are still in the c'ship. We played absolute shite and still got a draw, Fermanagh people were celebrating after the game, they were happy with the draw, they must have had 70% of the possesion in the 2nd half and couldnt make it count, imagine the shoe in the other foot, it would have been like Dublin Wexford. Next week will tell a different tale and there is no way we can play that bad again

Correct Onion.  I think Fermanagh will obviously be bouyed by how the game finished but they still have to maintain that level for another 70 minutes.  If Armagh realise how close they were to losing they will come back much stronger for the replay.  It is clear where the problems lie.  When the game opened out in the last 15 minutes Fermanagh were able to use their HB line as the launching point for their attacks.  MOR getting hurt was a major lose.  I think when he came off it might have been more useful to push Donaghy on to the WB position and move Aaron up front to MOR's position.

Anyway, they still have a chance and things can only get better.