Lisbon Treaty Exit Poll

[Hound]

My view is the lads who said "watch out lads, they are all trying to hoodwink you", have succeeding in hoodwinking the people!!

It'll be a right kick up the cojones for the Biff if the seemingly inevitable No result happens.

[magpie seanie]

It will be some craic watching FF and FG blame each other!

[Hound]

Indeed, one small positive thing about a No result is the fallout will be fun to observe!

[Dinny Breen]

Will we have another Nice Treaty and have to head back to the polls?

[thebandit]

It will be some craic watching FF and FG blame each other!

FG were farly quiet in the buildup imo, and I think that this was on purpose, as they suspected that the yes vote wouldn't carry, and wanted the sh1t to stick to FF

[Mentalman]

Will we have another Nice Treaty and have to head back to the polls?

Yep, with some small concessions, and a bigger effort from the parties, plus the opposition like SF won't have the finances to fight a second campaign. By then they might even have got the concessions to soften their line somewhat.

[Hound]

Will we have another Nice Treaty and have to head back to the polls?

Yep, with some small concessions, and a bigger effort from the parties, plus the opposition like SF won't have the finances to fight a second campaign. By then they might even have got the concessions to soften their line somewhat.

There won't be any concessions (not that Sinn Fein, Libertas etc would change their line anyway), but the mis-truths will be spelt out to make it easier to understand, easier for the politicians to talk about and harder for the No camp to mislead the people.

[Main Street]

I'd prefer if most politicians shut up about the Treaty.

I could listen to an argument for an against by legally qualified constitutionalists  but to listen to most of the politician means I have to wash away about 80% of their populist nonsense.
Pat Rabbitte this morning on the radio is particularly hard to listen to.

There is something about this Treaty that does not get the majority popular vote, evident not just in Ireland but in any country where some scrutiny of opinion was practised.

Gay Mitchell
telling that now Ireland will be like a black sheep in the EU, we are not in a good place and the no people have the responsibility. What a moronic condescending statement.

[Zapatista]

I'm am happy to see the results that are coming through. It is not a reason to celebrate though as it does pose some serious questions though.

FF, FG, and Labour are the 3 biggest parties here. They all got it wrong. There is evidence of a political class being separated from a voting class. How could these Representatives get this so wrong. How could they put this to the people and ask them to accept it when it is (with the evidence of hindsight) clearly not acceptable by the people. The EU Constitution/Lisbon Treaty has been put to the people and rejected by the people on 3 occasions. Are the leaders of the EU and Ireland, France and the Netherlands that distant from the people that they can get this wrong. Will they finally accept that a document of this type is not acceptable by enough people in the EU to make it work. It is not what we want.

I beg the Irish Government to become leaders in the EU and not followers. I beg the Government to stop the European centralisation of power. Stop the movement towards increased Militarism and competion between the citizens of Europe and the world. Write a document based on relations advocating Human rights, International Aid, Public Service and workers rights. Stop the "if we can't beat China, India and the US then we must join them" attitude. Become leaders in the world promoting justice and solidarity and lead China, India and the US away from their destructive paths of competition.

[Mentalman]

Will we have another Nice Treaty and have to head back to the polls?

Yep, with some small concessions, and a bigger effort from the parties, plus the opposition like SF won't have the finances to fight a second campaign. By then they might even have got the concessions to soften their line somewhat.

There won't be any concessions (not that Sinn Fein, Libertas etc would change their line anyway), but the mis-truths will be spelt out to make it easier to understand, easier for the politicians to talk about and harder for the No camp to mislead the people.

I'm not on here to defend Libertas or SF BUT...the main aprties did not engage the opposition on the issues in the debates I saw and heard. That is hardly the oppositions fault. Rather they brought up red herrings in the context of the referendum about funding  - FF lecturing anyone on funding is beyond weird, they setup the current "ethics" legislation - and private armies when speaking about security issues. Engage on the issues, expose the "mis-truths" (lies I call them) and tell the people what they are voting for, and don't scare monger about being "bad" Europeans. The yes side only got their finger out in the last week, and then only to campaign negatively about the opposition. If the referendum is lost it's not due to the massive influence of Libertas/SF bogeymen, more to do with the fact that the treaty was not sold to the people. Saying "trust us" just won't cut it anymore. People won't change the constitution when not convinved what they are voting for is an imrpovement. And there will be concessions, even for Nice two they got concessions - a protocol on defense I believe? Somthing similar again should suffice.

[magpie seanie]

There won't be any concessions (not that Sinn Fein, Libertas etc would change their line anyway), but the mis-truths will be spelt out to make it easier to understand, easier for the politicians to talk about and harder for the No camp to mislead the people.

Hound - I think that cuts both ways. If people think this is a victory for Sinn Féin or Libertas then I think they are mistaken. My view (as a No voter) on their campaigns were that they were fairly useless. If there was a general election tomorrow SF would not make a significant improvment on their current position so no matter how many times you hear Mary Lou shite on about "voters getting the SF message" its not the case. The Yes side were only marginally better (though I'd expect a lot more from the main parties - some of them aren't idiots) but failed to be honest about some matters (powers that will be transferred to govt, possible changes to Treaty in future, future direction of European project) and got dragged down to the SF/Libertas level by arguing over stupid and fairly inconsequential stuff. There is no vision or foresight. It was basically - this is the deal we got. Trust us, its good and don't mind the crusties.

Where we go from here is interesting but I'd advise anyone trying to negotiate a solution with the "No" side to talk to the likes of Shane Ross or David Norris and not the others.

[Mentalman]

There won't be any concessions (not that Sinn Fein, Libertas etc would change their line anyway), but the mis-truths will be spelt out to make it easier to understand, easier for the politicians to talk about and harder for the No camp to mislead the people.

Hound - I think that cuts both ways. If people think this is a victory for Sinn Féin or Libertas then I think they are mistaken. My view (as a No voter) on their campaigns were that they were fairly useless. If there was a general election tomorrow SF would not make a significant improvment on their current position so no matter how many times you hear Mary Lou shite on about "voters getting the SF message" its not the case. The Yes side were only marginally better (though I'd expect a lot more from the main parties - some of them aren't idiots) but failed to be honest about some matters (powers that will be transferred to govt, possible changes to Treaty in future, future direction of European project) and got dragged down to the SF/Libertas level by arguing over stupid and fairly inconsequential stuff. There is no vision or foresight. It was basically - this is the deal we got. Trust us, its good and don't mind the crusties.

Where we go from here is interesting but I'd advise anyone trying to negotiate a solution with the "No" side to talk to the likes of Shane Ross or David Norris and not the others.

Would agree completely with that Seanie. Anyone claiming a victory for SF or Libertas just hasn't a clue. Irish people actually care greatly about their constitution, and are not going to change it for some nebulous, illdefined treaty, just so they can "look other Europeans straight in the eye" - as if that were an issue in any event. What amazes me that people just don't get is the EU is a union of equal nation states, not some stepping stone on the way to a USE. The vast majority of Europeans treasure that, and as long as those in Brussels don't get that, treaties will continue to be rejected.

* In no way claiming a No win there, it's still way too close to call.

[Tankie]

There won't be any concessions (not that Sinn Fein, Libertas etc would change their line anyway), but the mis-truths will be spelt out to make it easier to understand, easier for the politicians to talk about and harder for the No camp to mislead the people.

Hound - I think that cuts both ways. If people think this is a victory for Sinn Féin or Libertas then I think they are mistaken. My view (as a No voter) on their campaigns were that they were fairly useless. If there was a general election tomorrow SF would not make a significant improvment on their current position so no matter how many times you hear Mary Lou shite on about "voters getting the SF message" its not the case. The Yes side were only marginally better (though I'd expect a lot more from the main parties - some of them aren't idiots) but failed to be honest about some matters (powers that will be transferred to govt, possible changes to Treaty in future, future direction of European project) and got dragged down to the SF/Libertas level by arguing over stupid and fairly inconsequential stuff. There is no vision or foresight. It was basically - this is the deal we got. Trust us, its good and don't mind the crusties.

Where we go from here is interesting but I'd advise anyone trying to negotiate a solution with the "No" side to talk to the likes of Shane Ross or David Norris and not the others.

Would agree completely with that Seanie. Anyone claiming a victory for SF or Libertas just hasn't a clue. Irish people actually care greatly about their constitution, and are not going to change it for some nebulous, illdefined treaty, just so they can "look other Europeans straight in the eye" - as if that were an issue in any event. What amazes me that people just don't get is the EU is a union of equal nation states, not some stepping stone on the way to a USE. The vast majority of Europeans treasure that, and as long as those in Brussels don't get that, treaties will continue to be rejected.

* In no way claiming a No win there, it's still way too close to call.

I would agree with that as the turn out was so low

[Zapatista]

The majority of the tallys are in metalman. It's over at 55% to 45% with a slight margin or error. There is not enough left to pull it back for the Yes side.

[Billys Boots]

I would agree with that as the turn out was so low

The turn-out is nearly 55% (looking at the current figures) Tankie, which is much greater than expected.  RTE are saying that the percentage 'No' is the same as for Nice I, but the percentage of the electorate that voted is much greater (55% vs 35%).