Maze Stadium to get go ahead to-day

[nifan]

cheers snatter - i had missed it, and have been up to my eyes with work (im working now) so havent been trailing through.

I was aware of the desire for such a stadium by the GAA - when i first mentioned it many months ago some gaa people claimed it was rubbish and demanded i prove it!

Im not sure of your sums, im no accountant either.

However, the GAA seems to prefer owning its own grounds, and surely a modern stadium with other incorporated facilities is something they could do for themselves without the hassle of having to deal with the inept IFA and the cmisinformation spewing sib. They would certainly make money from alternative revenue streams - look at croke park!

Ive no problem with a joint venture, but i am not a fan of the maze proposal due to the needs of my sport, which is obviously my priority, but i dont know why the gaa would be keen to get into be with the eejits steering this ship.

[snatter]

However, the GAA seems to prefer owning its own grounds, and surely a modern stadium with other incorporated facilities is something they could do for themselves without the hassle of having to deal with the inept IFA and the cmisinformation spewing sib. They would certainly make money from alternative revenue streams - look at croke park!

This makes huge strategic and economic sense for us.
There's a pretty simple case for going in on the Maze:

We'd never make more money paying back a loan £3M pa when we could rent a better facility for 500k pa instead.
We could take the £2.5M pa we'd save and invest it elsewhere.

Ive no problem with a joint venture, but i am not a fan of the maze proposal due to the needs of my sport, which is obviously my priority, but i dont know why the gaa would be keen to get into be with the eejits steering this ship.

I'm curious -  in what way can the needs of your sport not be met by a shared stadium at the Maze?
If what you're saying is true, then surely the IFA would never have signed up for it.
As far as I can see, the pretty imminent  need of Ni soccer is to provide a safe UEFA compliant stadium.
Failing that, they will seriously have to go consider going to Scotland / England.
You just don't have the money to go it alone.

You guys will end up paying roughly 250k pa to use the Maze - again that's a bargain for what you're getting.
And when you fill it to its capacity, and consequently make more money, you have the GAA to thank in bankrolling the stadium's annual running costs.

[nifan]

The 3 million is negating any government support whatsoever, which is what some people - gaa also - are arguing for, a division of the portion of the money.
20 million from the government would make a big chunk of difference.
Revenue from other avenues could help.

Im not saying its a definite goer, but you seem to dismiss it out of hand. And at the end of the day the GAA could own its own facility - surely preferable to the organisation.

If what you're saying is true, then surely the IFA would never have signed up for it.

Snatter , your surely aware that the IFA are idiots

[magickingdom]

But what have your opinions on that issue got to do with the stadium?
Surely we can split the two issues.

I certainly don't see any interdependence between stadium and what happens to the listed H block.
There's nothing to stop the stadium going ahead while NI plc spends the next 20 years arguing about what happens to the H block.

Not according to SF. Paul Butler stated that one can't happen without the other. Now that's a strange criteria for any sporting venue. Most modern stadia have ample parking, disabled facilities, adequate infrastructure and a convenient location. Apparently our new national stadium needs a terror shrine as well.

So did Barbara Brown.

whose that?

The 3 million is negating any government support whatsoever, which is what some people - gaa also - are arguing for, a division of the portion of the money.
20 million from the government would make a big chunk of difference.
Revenue from other avenues could help.

Im not saying its a definite goer, but you seem to dismiss it out of hand. And at the end of the day the GAA could own its own facility - surely preferable to the organisation.

If what you're saying is true, then surely the IFA would never have signed up for it.

Snatter , your surely aware that the IFA are idiots

nifan, i take your point about wanting your own stadium for soccer and i'm sure many gaa fans want the same but would you agree that if the shared stadium project comes about it might actually lead to the breaking down of barriers? after all people will have to deal with each other, and people from unionist/nationalist areas will be associating with the same place (if at different times!). surely that can only be good..

[Rossfan]

At least up North they want to build a Public Stadium for all Sports unlike in Tallaght.

[his holiness nb]

Sammy must have the laptop in the pub as he is reading this thread!

On the contrary, maybe in his rush to get out to the pub he left his computer on at home with the GAA Board page open.

Correct, computer left on doing an update but sure it's easier to throw abuse about.

Abuse? Sammy if we wanted to abuse you we could do a lot better than that 

You made a post saying SF "coaxed / co-erced the GAA" on this issue.
When asked for proof you asked us to prove its not true, which is a ridiculous argument by any standards.


This is why you are recieving all these comments, Sammy, you have ducked and dived around admitting you have nothing to back this up, except maybe a hunch, and by refusing to admit this and take the statement back your credibility is taking a real bashing.

I'm not argueing with you over any other point, but you need to either take that back or back the claim up.

[snatter]

Sammy must have the laptop in the pub as he is reading this thread!

On the contrary, maybe in his rush to get out to the pub he left his computer on at home with the GAA Board page open.

Correct, computer left on doing an update but sure it's easier to throw abuse about.

Abuse? Sammy if we wanted to abuse you we could do a lot better than that 

You made a post saying SF "coaxed / co-erced the GAA" on this issue.
When asked for proof you asked us to prove its not true, which is a ridiculous argument by any standards.


This is why you are recieving all these comments, Sammy, you have ducked and dived around admitting you have nothing to back this up, except maybe a hunch, and by refusing to admit this and take the statement back your credibility is taking a real bashing.

I'm not argueing with you over any other point, but you need to either take that back or back the claim up.

Similarly not one pro-Mazer walked out of the meeting, but that didn't stop Sammy from baldly stating lies as fact.
The problem is that we've been here so many times with Sammy, that imho, he's lost all credibility.
We'd almost need a full-time editorial team to research and expose his lies.

[snatter]

At least up North they want to build a Public Stadium for all Sports unlike in Tallaght.

All the more ironic given that the same architects are designing both Lansdowne and the Maze.
Totally dispels the myth that they couldn't accomodate gaelic games in the fraudulent excuse for a national stadium.

[nifan]

nifan, i take your point about wanting your own stadium for soccer and i'm sure many gaa fans want the same but would you agree that if the shared stadium project comes about it might actually lead to the breaking down of barriers? after all people will have to deal with each other, and people from unionist/nationalist areas will be associating with the same place (if at different times!). surely that can only be good..

magickingdom, i agree it would help in a small way - as ive said before if the stadium was the best solution for us all id be 100% behind it - even though i feel some of the talk of sharing it breaking down barriers is a little over the top. Many NI fans wont give a shite about GAA still, and many GAA wont give a shite about NI. Personally the GAA is seldom on my radar, but ive enjoyed the games when ive went, and when ive watched them on telly. I dont think ill ever be a regular by any stretch.

I was very happy with the thought of a shared stadium when it was first mooted, but differing requirements make it harder to achieve in a way acceptable to all.

[SammyG]

Similarly not one pro-Mazer walked out of the meeting, but that didn't stop Sammy from baldly stating lies as fact.
The problem is that we've been here so many times with Sammy, that imho, he's lost all credibility.
We'd almost need a full-time editorial team to research and expose his lies.

Yet more lies and bollix. I posted the list of people along with their Maze affiliations (if known) and the list included pro, anti and unknown which was exactly what I'd said.

[SammyG]

At least up North they want to build a Public Stadium for all Sports unlike in Tallaght.

All the more ironic given that the same architects are designing both Lansdowne and the Maze.
Totally dispels the myth that they couldn't accomodate gaelic games in the fraudulent excuse for a national stadium.

Or it would 'totally dispel the myth', if we could actually see some plans. At the moment we've been told that we'll have (in no particular order) variable capacity, moveable seats, terracing for GAA (although the latest story form Poots is that GAA no longer want terracing and are happy with 35K), clear sight lines and no loss of atmosphere. All sounds wonderful but we have not seen one single concrete proposal on how they're going to do any of these things.

[SammyG]

This makes huge strategic and economic sense for us.
There's a pretty simple case for going in on the Maze:

Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it a fact. There is no business case for the Maze, so you have no idea whether it makes sense or not.

And when you fill it to its capacity, and consequently make more money, you have the GAA to thank in bankrolling the stadium's annual running costs.

I've asked before and you've never answered but I'll try again. Can you please explain how you think a capacity crowd would be accomodated at the Maze? I'd like a breakdown of the mix between cars and public transport, number of parking spaces and time to enter and leave and what facilities would be on offer when they got there?

[snatter]

Similarly not one pro-Mazer walked out of the meeting, but that didn't stop Sammy from baldly stating lies as fact.
The problem is that we've been here so many times with Sammy, that imho, he's lost all credibility.
We'd almost need a full-time editorial team to research and expose his lies.

Yet more lies and bollix. I posted the list of people along with their Maze affiliations (if known) and the list included pro, anti and unknown which was exactly what I'd said.

Lol - Sammy's list of alleged pro-maze walkees consisted of one Alliance guy who didn't walk, and another who, from his published comments is neutral at best.
After providing evidence that McNarry is neutral at best, I invited Sammy to provide evidence to back his claim that McNarry is actually pro-Maze.
To date, Sammy has declined to do so.
My guess is that no evidence exists, and Sammy has just made up another lie, presented as fact.

Sammy, here's the thread again just in case you had too many babychams yesterday afternoon and can't remember it:

The walkout included pro, anti and undecideds.

So, of the walkees, who are the pro, anti and undecided?
What's the breakdown, or are you making this up?

There are people who have publically backed the Maze, people who have publically backed Belfast and people who have made no comment either way (or not that I've seen). The one thing they all had in common was that they want to see a proper business case (as do we all) not a glossy presentation that has already cost over a million quid.

OK, you're obviously having difficulties, so I'll ask the question again:

So, of the walkees, who are the pro, anti and undecided?
What's the breakdown, or are you making this up?

My expectation would have  been that not one pro-Maze committee member walked out yesterday.
You've made the statement to the contrary, so back it up, or withdraw it.

The committe consists of
Alliance Mr Kieran McCarthy (Pro-Maze)
Democratic Unionist Party The Lord Browne (don't know)
Mr Nelson McCausland (pro-Belfast)
Mr Jim Shannon (pro-Belfast)
Sinn Fein Mr Francie Brolly (Pro-Maze)
Mr Barry McElduff (Chairperson) (pro-Maze)
Mr Paul Maskey (pro-Maze)
Social Democratic and Labour Party Mr Dominic Bradley (don't know)
Mr Pat Ramsey (don't know)
Ulster Unionist Party Mr David McNarry (Deputy Chairperson) (pro-Maze)
Mr Ken Robinson (don't know)

The walkouts were McCarthy, Browne, MaCausland, Shannon, McNarry and Robinson (so as I said a split of pro anti and unknow/undecided)

Wrong Sammy.
The truth is that McCarthy of the Alliance Party did not walk out yesterday.
In fact he's on the record as castigating those who did:

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7141497.stm

However, his colleague on the committee, Kieran McCarthy of the Alliance Party, said the situation was "a complete fiasco".
"In my opinion it's an own-goal by our committee. They had the opportunity not only to see what's being proposed, but to ask questions and they threw it out," he said.

As for McNarry, his comments on teh Maze would lead me to suggest that he's neutral / slightly closer to the anti-Maze camp, and most certainly not a pro-Mazer.


Look at his quotes on the matter:

http://www.95fm.ie/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=86513&pt=n

UUP committee vice-chair David McNarry said: "The business plan will incorporate the other options, the minister said these drawings could be taken from the Maze and put in the North Foreshore (a rival application near Belfast).

"We understand that this scheme has changed, they have new seating arrangements. We understand that that has added millions to the cost of a stadium built like this.

"We are being told daily this country can`t afford millions for anything... we are doing our duty."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6912363.stm:

Ulster Unionist committee vice chairman David McNarry asked the minister what impact unionist indignation would have on his decision on whether to take forward the Maze stadium plan.

http://uuptoday.org/newsroom/2007/06/22/kennedy-and-mcnarry-call-on-paisley-to-clear-the-air-over-maze-project/

A stadium does not necessarily have to be built on the Maze site. It could be placed elsewhere or not at all whereas the shrine is a project locked into the business plan adopted by Dr Paisley, who only last week signed a joint letter with Martin McGuinness shutting down the Maze monitoring panel and placing full responsibility for the development of the site with his own offices.

-----------------------------------------

Of course Sammy, if you have any evidence to the contrary, then please submit.

Otherwise, as is the norm when you talk out of your arse without thinking, I'll be requesting that you withdraw your false assertion that

Quote from: SammyG on Today at 07:24:47 AM
The walkout included pro, anti and undecideds.

[snatter]

Ive no problem with a joint venture, but i am not a fan of the maze proposal due to the needs of my sport, which is obviously my priority, but i dont know why the gaa would be keen to get into be with the eejits steering this ship.

I'm curious -  in what way can the needs of your sport not be met by a shared stadium at the Maze?

NI Fan - afai can see, you still haven't answered my question.
I'm genuinely interested to know how the Maze doesn't the NI soccer team's needs.

Oh, and I forgot to add in reply to your question about why the GAA would want to do business with a bunch of muppets - it's not really - it's contract will be with the Maze holding company.

[SammyG]

Lol - Sammy's list of alleged pro-maze walkees consisted of one Alliance guy who didn't walk, and another who, from his published comments is neutral at best.
After providing evidence that McNarry is neutral at best, I invited Sammy to provide evidence to back his claim that McNarry is actually pro-Maze.
To date, Sammy has declined to do so.
My guess is that no evidence exists, and Sammy has just made up another lie, presented as fact.

If you're going to spout nonsense it's probably best not to quote the thread that actually shows you're spouting nonsense.

p.s. Still waiting for an answer.