Maze Stadium to get go ahead to-day

[snatter]

I have no problem seeing the GAA and SF as separate, but you are kidding yourself if you see this as an electoral issue for them one way or another. When this whole project goes tits up they will find someone else to blame......

This project will probably fail because, quite simply most NI soccer fans (and probably most unionists) have never wanted their beloved NI to share with the GAA.
There have been reams and reams of various excuses, but in my opinion, that's all they've ever been, excuses.

Do you see the irony in NI fans demanding taxpayers bankroll yet more stands at Windsor, or hey, even a whole new stadium, yet when it comes to building something for all sports, its suddenly a waste of taxpayers money.

It's complete hypocrisy, especially when you consider that this is one-off UK treasury funding, not money already allocated to NI plc.

I'm sure a lot of GAA fans are sick of your pathetic excuses by now.
If it doesn't go ahead, we'll cope without this one-off injection. We'll potter along with Clones / Croke.
Quite simply, you guys won't.
Your meagre attendances, your frivolous expenditure and your inept management guarantee that you can't afford to build a stadium of your own.

And by christ, we'll not sit back this time and accept you spongers being given a North Stand for free while our attenedances are four times bigger and we get shag all.

[Solomon Kane]

[And by christ, we'll not sit back this time and accept you spongers being given a North Stand for free while our attenedances are four times bigger and we get shag all.

First of all less of the lip. Try and raise the debate out of the gutter.

Secondly, if you took the time to do a bit of research into sporting grants in Northern Ireland you wouldn't be coming out with bullshit like that. Try this for the tip of the iceberg - http://archive.nics.gov.uk/cal/040310b-cal.htm FFS how long has the North stand been there now? You'll be bitching about the potato famine next.

[BallyhaiseMan]

ive always enjoyed my trips to Casement,sure it doesnt have the promise of getting lashed like we do everytime in Clones,but lovely ground with a great atmosphere.
This Maze place?any nearby Town/Village that we would be welcomed in or are they building a load of bars and hotels?

[snatter]

[And by christ, we'll not sit back this time and accept you spongers being given a North Stand for free while our attenedances are four times bigger and we get shag all.

First of all less of the lip. Try and raise the debate out of the gutter.

Cop out - there's no trace of the gutter in what I said there.
There's only been one guest star in the gutter today, and that's our Sammy G, caught out yet again telling lies, and then branding the GAA as nothing more than a tool of SF.
And on the same day as kids get their gaa pitches bombed.
Nice.
Wonder what the G stands for in Sammy G, is it Goebbels by any chance?
He's certainly got the same propangda style.

Secondly, if you took the time to do a bit of research into sporting grants in Northern Ireland you wouldn't be coming out with bullshit like that. Try this for the tip of the iceberg - http://archive.nics.gov.uk/cal/040310b-cal.htm FFS how long has the North stand been there now? You'll be bitching about the potato famine next.

Don't worry, I already did, several months ago when I proved that NI govt funding to gaelic games was lower than that given to soccer. I'll dig out the post again if you want me to.

And we haven't even touched on the massive imbalance in public playing field provision in NI.
Afaik, out of 662 council-owned pitches in the North, just 59 are set aside for Gaelic games.
The rest are used for rugby and soccer.

And just because your free North Stand was 20 years ago, doesn't detract from the unfairness of soccer getting massive resources for grounds development whilst gaelic games got nothing, despite our attendances dwarfing yours.
And hey, NI soccer is so inept , it couldn't even look after the stand properly anyway.

[snatter]

Here, does anybody know if the Gary McAllister quoted in the story below as a "community representative" (as they're known now) the same Gary McAllister, spokesman for the Amalgamation of Northern Ireland Supporters' Clubs, aka the anti-Maze ringleader?

Nice story highlighting hypocrisy and sectarian exclusionist thinking.

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http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/irish_news/arts2006/oct12_worse_than_the_Catholic_devil_you_know__NEmerson.php

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One thing worse than the Catholic 'devil you know'

(Newton Emerson, Irish News)

    The battle of Brookfield Mill has opened with an onslaught of bigotry. Developer Neil McCann recently purchased the sprawling north Belfast site and filed a planning application for 170 modern apartments plus a row of shops fronting the Crumlin Road.

    Residents from the adjoining Protestant Woodvale area were immediately summoned to an 'emergency meeting' attended by Ulster Unionist assembly member Fred Cobain, DUP assembly members Diane Dodds and Nelson McCausland, UDA-linked councillor Frank McCoubrey and 'community representatives' Billy Patterson and Gary McAllister.

    There was, as they used to say, "trouble at t'mill". Objections initially focused on sectarian attacks by Catholic youths from neighbouring Ardoyne who regularly use the semi-derelict building as cover.

    This is a real problem but as redeveloping the site would be a real solution it didn't take long for the real objection to surface.

    "All nationalist areas are trying to bring back professionals in a bid to develop and expand their communities. Basically this is part of a longer-term programme building up and expanding Ardoyne," Nelson McCausland said.

    "For years Protestants have stood idly by and let nationalists develop their areas but if they put up a reasonable and logical fight and make things clear and concise there is no reason why this cannot be stopped," Billy Patterson said.

    "We have to hit back at this very disturbing proposal and stand side by side and fight this side by side," Frank McCoubrey said.

    These 'community leaders' have a curious attitude towards the plight of their constituents. By their own admission, the Brookfield Mill project will "bring back professionals"and "develop" the area.

    The reason they give for finding this "disturbing" is that the site's new residents will be nationalists. In fact, in the present housing market, the residents could be of any persuasion although this is not something that the ghetto mentality finds easy to believe. It is also not something that the ghetto mentality finds much of a consolation either.

    "Another big problem is a lot of these apartments will be bought and privately rented," Fred Cobain warned the meeting. "In most cases the people who buy these properties won't actually live in them and will lease them out to anyone."

    This is indeed a big problem. For Northern Ireland's corner-boy control freaks, the only thing worse than knowing that the other lot live next door is not knowing who lives behind every door. Apartments don't even have front doors or street-level windows or backyard entries.

    Their inhabitants can't easily be observed, approached, labelled, harassed, intimidated or evicted.

    The ancient Romans called apartment buildings 'insulae' – islands – and they are just as insular today, protected by the cliff-walls of their ground-floor car parks.

    In other cities this is seen as a disadvantage but in Belfast it is often a blessing. The outline plans for Brookfield Mill describe its row of shops as a "commercial buffer".

    However, in practice the whole site will be a buffer – a habitable, profitable peace wall. The Shankill Mirror describes the row of shops as "another possible Ardoyne shop scenario". Sadly, Billy Patterson did not suggest that this could also be stopped with reason and logic. Perhaps Woodvale's 'community representatives' prefer a dead thoroughfare they can march down once a year to a living street they could use every day, just as they apparently prefer a wasteland full of lurking hooligans to a development that could be home to "anyone". It is almost as if they want their constituents to be afraid.

    North Belfast's tribal demography is a zero-sum game that both sides can play and both sides play it often. The republican response to equally urgent regeneration along the Shore Road has been equally sectarian in its fears and motivations.

    But even the most obviously bigoted campaigners against new housing for Protestants make some attempt to hide their shame behind self-serving claims of official discrimination. Some people by comparison, have no shame whatsoever.

    Although their statements stink of prejudice and paranoia it is the stupidity that truly stands out.

    Simple two-faced cunning is beyond them. The people of Woodvale must know that sectarian violence afflicts both communities either side of the Crumlin Road in fairly equal measure.

    Yet one community is developing while the other decays, which strongly suggests that the real problem stems from within.

    As the 'emergency meeting' broke up and the chummy representatives of unionism and loyalism headed for the door, was there a moment when the residents of Woodvale saw what was really milling in front of them?

October 13, 2006

[SammyG]

Sammy must have the laptop in the pub as he is reading this thread!

On the contrary, maybe in his rush to get out to the pub he left his computer on at home with the GAA Board page open.

Correct, computer left on doing an update but sure it's easier to throw abuse about.

[SammyG]

There's only been one guest star in the gutter today, and that's our Sammy G, caught out yet again telling lies, and then branding the GAA as nothing more than a tool of SF.
And on the same day as kids get their gaa pitches bombed.
Nice.

Do you ever stop[ lying? Where in the name of fcuk did I say that the GAA were a tool of SF.?

Wonder what the G stands for in Sammy G, is it Goebbels by any chance?
He's certainly got the same propangda style.

By propaganda I presume you mean sticking to the facts instead pf spouting nonsense.

Don't worry, I already did, several months ago when I proved that NI govt funding to gaelic games was lower than that given to soccer. I'll dig out the post again if you want me to.

Lies you made the claim and were shown that it was complete bollix.

And just because your free North Stand was 20 years ago, doesn't detract from the unfairness of soccer getting massive resources for grounds development whilst gaelic games got nothing, despite our attendances dwarfing yours.[/quiote]
How can the GAA getiting huge cgrants be turned into 'getting nothing'. You must have a very strange view of what nothing is?

And hey, NI soccer is so inept , it couldn't even look after the stand properly anyway.

WTF?

[SammyG]

I'll ignore the crass behaviour of Sammy G in refusing to withdraw his utterly disgraceful posyts and present you with a new deal ......

Not sure what I'm supposed to have done but I'm sure you'll enlighten me

How many millins is this stadium?
Divide it by 3 for each of the 3 main field games, GAA, rugby and soccer.
Give one third of the money directly to each association on the following conditions:

1 They match it with their own funding and each build their own stadium for their own needs to minimum modern standards of player, spectator and press accommodation, helath & safety, covered stands, etc.
2 No such money to be released until each project is fully costed, approved, evidence of own money in place and suitable guarantees that grants will not be applied for other purposes (recent history with Irish Leahgue clubs suggests the soccer boys might have some problems here)

The GAA is the only body which could realistically meet this target.
And that is why the business case for a NornIrn stadium falls without their input.

Unfortunately that is looking more and more like the only sensible sollution.

[SammyG]

This project will probably fail because, quite simply most NI soccer fans (and probably most unionists) have never wanted their beloved NI to share with the GAA.
There have been reams and reams of various excuses, but in my opinion, that's all they've ever been, excuses.

Can you present even one shred of evidence for that nonsensical allegation? How are transport, infrastructure, facilities etc etc etc excuses?

Do you see the irony in NI fans demanding taxpayers bankroll yet more stands at Windsor, or hey, even a whole new stadium, yet when it comes to building something for all sports, its suddenly a waste of taxpayers money.

WTF are you on about? Nobody is saying don't build a stadium, they are saying don't build one in a field in the middle of nowehere, but then you knoew that any way.

It's complete hypocrisy, especially when you consider that this is one-off UK treasury funding, not money already allocated to NI plc.

See above?

I'm sure a lot of GAA fans are sick of your pathetic excuses by now.

What excuses?

If it doesn't go ahead, we'll cope without this one-off injection. We'll potter along with Clones / Croke.
Quite simply, you guys won't.

Why?

Your meagre attendances, your frivolous expenditure and your inept management guarantee that you can't afford to build a stadium of your own.

Interesting viewpoint and by interesting I of course mean complete bollix.

And by christ, we'll not sit back this time and accept you spongers being given a North Stand for free while our attenedances are four times bigger and we get shag all.

Again I have to ask how millions in granst amounts to 'shag all'.

[SammyG]

Sammy, I didn't realise that the people in the Bath/Bristol Area had agreed to pay for a stadium for Northern Ireland

The stadium will be financed by the UK exchequer, all UK taxpayers will be asked to pay for it.

[Chrisowc]

But what have your opinions on that issue got to do with the stadium?
Surely we can split the two issues.

I certainly don't see any interdependence between stadium and what happens to the listed H block.
There's nothing to stop the stadium going ahead while NI plc spends the next 20 years arguing about what happens to the H block.

Not according to SF. Paul Butler stated that one can't happen without the other. Now that's a strange criteria for any sporting venue. Most modern stadia have ample parking, disabled facilities, adequate infrastructure and a convenient location. Apparently our new national stadium needs a terror shrine as well.

So did Barbara Brown.

[snatter]

But what have your opinions on that issue got to do with the stadium?
Surely we can split the two issues.

I certainly don't see any interdependence between stadium and what happens to the listed H block.
There's nothing to stop the stadium going ahead while NI plc spends the next 20 years arguing about what happens to the H block.

Not according to SF. Paul Butler stated that one can't happen without the other. Now that's a strange criteria for any sporting venue. Most modern stadia have ample parking, disabled facilities, adequate infrastructure and a convenient location. Apparently our new national stadium needs a terror shrine as well.

So did Barbara Brown.

Well that's her opinion, not the GAA's.
You (and especially Sammy ) need to be clear that the GAA and SF are not one and the same thing.
Particularly on a day like today when we've seen bombs and bomb threats at GAA grounds across the north.

I'd love to see the shinners trying to tell GAA fans across the north that we couldn't get a stadium because they couldn't get their interpretive centre. Electorally, they wouldn't stand a chance.

The GAA will sign up for this solely because its good for the GAA, ie what's in our best interests, not SF's.
See my reply to NI fan earlier in this thread - this makes huge financial sense for us and meets a real need on our part.
If we can get the 40k stadium envisaged in the GAA strategic review for 500k pa, rather than 3million pa, then we're quids in.

[SammyG]

Well that's her opinion, not the GAA's.

Strange that the GAA have never contradicted these statements. If some DUP politician was claiming to speak for the IFA, I'd have a fit.

You (and especially Sammy ) need to be clear that the GAA and SF are not one and the same thing.

More bollix, I have never said anything of the sort.

Particularly on a day like today when we've seen bombs and bomb threats at GAA grounds across the north.

Bomb threats which I and everybody else I know have condemned

I'd love to see the shinners trying to tell GAA fans across the north that we couldn't get a stadium because they couldn't get their interpretive centre.

They've already done it, several times.

Electorally, they wouldn't stand a chance.

Err they won the Nationalist vote

The GAA will sign up for this solely because its good for the GAA, ie what's in our best interests, not SF's
See my reply to NI fan earlier in this thread - this makes huge financial sense for us and meets a real need on our part.
If we can get the 40k stadium envisaged in the GAA strategic review for 500k pa, rather than 3million pa, then we're quids in.

And if you can't use it because there's no infrastructure then you'll just move to Clones and fcuk everybody else.

[nifan]

snatter  - the 3 million pa - is that what it would cost for the GAA to build a similar stadium?
Im sorry if i missed an earliuer post as I was wondering how much it would cost to finance a stadium themselves?

[snatter]

snatter  - the 3 million pa - is that what it would cost for the GAA to build a similar stadium?
Im sorry if i missed an earliuer post as I was wondering how much it would cost to finance a stadium themselves?

Answer to you post below (copied from page 3 of this thread).

Assumes it will take £50 M GBP to build a 40k (2/3 covered and seated) stadium for gaelic games.
Personally, I think that's a very conservative estimate.
The £3M GBP for 50 years represents interest plus repayment of capital amount.

In case you don't know already, building such a 40k stadium in Ulster is recommended in the GAA's strategic review.
The economic case for such a stadium has been independently costed and verified by the Economics Dept, UCC.

One serious question snatter-  how long would it take the GAA to pay off a stadium on 500K a year, that they would then own, and be able to make revenue off themselves with games and related entertainment (concerts etc)

I'm no accountant or banker, but finger in the air calculation:

Borrowing 50 million GBP at 6% (libor + 1%) over 50 years would need annual repayments of about 3 million per year.
Total interest paid over 50 years would be about 108 Million.
Assuming inflation rate of 4.5%, interest in real terms over period would be over 50 million, ie twice the cost of building it.

So simple answer on how long it would take GAA to repay loan for our own 50 million stadium, at repayment rate of 500k pa?
We would never repay it because we wouldn't get anybody to lend for such a long repayment period, I guess somewhere itro 400 years.

Thats why 500k pa rent is such a no brainer - its a bargain for what we're getting.
Assuming of course that the unionists can stomach having a gaelic player about the place.