Meeting of Grassroots to Discuss our Strategy re GPA

[Rois]

[Because I love football. Very simple. I would love to give more time to my career, but I love this to much.

[t

Good, I'm sure that's the same for 99.9% of intercounty players - so would 2k per year make you love it more? 

[rrhf]

Because I love football. Very simple. I would love to give more time to my career, but I love this to much.
Exactly, and its better to love football than playstation, but both are past times. Diffrence is you'll not get a grant for your playstation

[ONeill]

Good point, something has to give, and restrictions may well need to be enforced, but thats not a strong enough arguement to bring in pay for play.  I have studied most of the debate from the GPA supporters and have found that their arguements for pay for play are often based on attacking people, their viewpoints being vague and now currently trying to isolate a province. 
Many people are also apathetic, I hate to have a go at you O Neill and If Im wrong I apologise but you seem to watch your GAA on television, so these guys are maybe the grassroots to you. 
I would have strong reservations about anyone who would paint a county footballer as a greedy bastard, and was actually openminded about the whole debate, but Im now concerned that it will have ordinary people leaving in droves.  They contribute so much but too me they have always gained the most from their association with the association.  It is that amateur ethic at work here not smallminded people but indeed successful smart thinkers who recognise the value of all our input.  I believe fundraising efforts like club Tyrone will be mortally wounded instantanaeously.  You have to ask yourself why does a man cut a pitch, why does he wash a jersey whay does he attend meetings and why does he waste his own time, why does he buy a ticket, give donations and finacial aid to the gaa and get so passionate and het up at protecting the GAA when under threat.  Why because its his way of contributing to society but in the main its all about providing better for our sportsmen and women. What amazing facilities have already been put in place.  In any opther sport you will not get to play at the highest level unless you are a professional full time athlete,  You will not get to play in front of crowds and you will not be held in such prestige.  I dont know what part of the deal is wrong for county footballers.  Sometimes I wonder are they happy to be represented by Dessie and when did they elect him, how did he manage to get onto central council and all that?  Could somebody on central council please stand up for the sizable opposition to this deal. Why do the GPA go for the money, there are other more important issue concerning players that need addressed.  Why go for the money?
As for the future of the GAA and I ask debaters not to insult anyones intelligence,  call it what it is, if the GAA does go professional,  forget about voluntary effort at the level it has been in 10 years time.  You will still have the clubs and many  within them will still persevere and toil, kind of like sunday league soccor,  but I can assure you many will not.  But as far as the county is concerned I cant speak for anybody but myself,  I dont think I woiuld be particularly  interested in attending a Tyrone county game again.  That will mean very little to most people, but thats currently the way I feel and I wonder is ther many out there who feel the same.   

RRHF, I'm actually beginning to believe you haven't read what this grant scheme is all about and are one of the masses who has been swept along by heresay and doomsday scenarios. I'm still waiting on your reply as to what my 'argument' is and how it's 'naive'.

And the next time I'm freezing my balls off during the winter club minor/McKenna games I'll look out for you, but I'd doubt you'll be there. I rarely attend summer games these days as my family weekend time comes first and it has become a fashion/drinking circuit in Tyrone.

[DMarsden]

Seriously lads, an we still be serious about putting playstation, hill walking and chess clubs on a par with being a county footballer? is it possible that there are people within our own organisation who regard meeting the commiment requirements to last on a county panel as a hobby? it's my belief that anyone peddling this line need to enlighten themselves of the real requirements, or are simply arguing for the sake of it.

[rrhf]

 As for your "arguement" / viewpoint / approach whatever, it lacks depth, forsight and research, so I actually  invented the word naiive to describe that. It is pitched at county player level.  It dosent really deal with the Derrytresk clubman selling his next ticket to fundraise and being told to f**k off because a semi professional orgainsation should be fit to be self financing. Or maybe you covered that in your arguement barely concealing your long term desire to havre adebayor playing for Tyrone.  Have an emoticon    

[Bogball XV]

Seriously lads, an we still be serious about putting playstation, hill walking and chess clubs on a par with being a county footballer? is it possible that there are people within our own organisation who regard meeting the commiment requirements to last on a county panel as a hobby? it's my belief that anyone peddling this line need to enlighten themselves of the real requirements, or are simply arguing for the sake of it.

Look, we all know county footballers, we know how difficult it is, I've stated before that I'd be happy enough to pay them some sort of living grant in order to become full time if that were possible.  But, any player who is letting his dedication to his county impact detrimentally on the rest of his life is a fool.  If he is not happy with the committment required, leave, if it's impacting on his relationships with others (and he's unhappy about this), leave.  He only has one life, he should live it.
I remember as a youngster, when I'd be running out to training or a match the night before an exam, you'd always get the 'football won't pay the bills, you know' from the mother on the way out, and it doesn't, nor will it ever.
Whilst I respect the work that players put in, I totally reject that their committment entitles them to monetary recompense, that is a stupid argument, and since you mention it, yes, I put any other hobbyist (who spends that amount of time) on the same level - they don't get the media intrusion or criticism (which I am totally against too), but neither do they get the perks, the glory, the career advancement and the women (nobody has mentioned that one before).

[ONeill]

In the same why the govn dishes out grants to elite athletes across the sporting codes, the GAA has finally been granted equal treatment. I don't see any problem in that whatsoever.

Instead of lighting fires and preparing pikes, the GAA at all levels should be tightening the rules on how the county boards distribute the grant. That's the real discussion. The authorities should be debating measures to ensure no-one (and there will be those who try) abuses the grants, be it a board or individual players.

There's every chance that with a downturn in the economy, the govn will be unable to continue with the grant scheme in three year's time. That could be when Dessie really earns his stripes!

[ONeill]

As for your "arguement" / viewpoint / approach whatever,

I knew you would be unable to explain this. "Your argument is naive" is a favoured response/tactic from those who don't like the slimest of opposition no matter what is being said but doesn't listen to what is being said and can't explain it.

Of course it's pitched at county player level. Comparing the ticket seller to the GAA athlete at the top of their chosen code is complete nonsense. Have you any idea of the grant money we're talking about here in terms of the individual? Are you expecting Rolls Royces and bling? You probably are.

[INDIANA]

there is a very clear distinction O Neill - we don't have elite athletes. My definition of elite athletes are those that get paid to play their sport. Our athletics teams compete against professionals- even our handballers compete against professionals in the States and Spain.Paul Brady our best handballer won 50k dollars in the States playing handball not so long ago.
Ours is an indigenous game played at amateur level- i can't imagine any county players has put more time into the GAA this year then my own senior club team who are still training and who do weights-recovery sessions- training and games in any given week. This is all down to the fact that IC create revenue and they want a cut of it in some shape or form. Inter county players have been creating revenue for the GAA since the year z. If you want to be a professional or an elite athlete then go and play professional sport - no-one is putting a gun to your head to play at county level.

[RedBlack]

I presume no-one at the Elk last night belongs to a club which is paying a manager. If there were some there in that position I would say they are hypocritical for not sorting their own house out first - I haven't heard a clamour about professionalism from them before.
To the man who is selling a club raffle ticket - I don't think that a County player getting a few quid for his efforts will be a problem with the punter who pays to watch him at Clones as he earns the GAAs money. The punter may object to that same club paying a trainer/manager (probably from outside the parish) £200-300.00 or more per week. Or am I missing the point?

[behind the wire]

As for your "arguement" / viewpoint / approach whatever,

I knew you would be unable to explain this. "Your argument is naive" is a favoured response/tactic from those who don't like the slimest of opposition no matter what is being said but doesn't listen to what is being said and can't explain it.

Of course it's pitched at county player level. Comparing the ticket seller to the GAA athlete at the top of their chosen code is complete nonsense. Have you any idea of the grant money we're talking about here in terms of the individual? Are you expecting Rolls Royces and bling? You probably are.

no its not. that is exactly what the association has thrived on for years. the only difference being that the intercounty player is lucky enough to be chosen to represent their county. that is (or was) the beauty of the thing.

[Felix]

Because I love football. Very simple. I would love to give more time to my career, but I love this to much.
Exactly, and its better to love football than playstation, but both are past times. Diffrence is you'll not get a grant for your playstation

I wont respond to that shite....did somebody mention the word respect

[Because I love football. Very simple. I would love to give more time to my career, but I love this to much.

[t

Good, I'm sure that's the same for 99.9% of intercounty players - so would 2k per year make you love it more? 

No it wont, i never said that I was for the grant, but with all the other people getting paid for their contribution to the gaa, whats wrong with a government grant

ALL what other people?

The GPA and the Player Welfare Officer have brought about some badly needed improvements in the treatment of players – gear, proper mileage expenses, meals, etc.  There are undoubtedly some areas that still need looking at, eg the player insurance scheme doesn't pay for the first week and this is an area that should be covered – though I believe it should be covered for ALL players and not just intercounty.  But to give individuals "grants" just seems plain wrong in my book.

Up and down the country we have club officers who aren't claiming a cent for out of pocket expenses and I'm talking about actual spends out of their own pockets as well as mileage etc.  I think people like them will now see the players getting a grant on top of the expenses they already get and wonder why they should be the idiots out of pocket.  

Playing for your county, or working in your club, are labours of love, or at least they should be.  Some past-times are more expensive than others (be that "expense" time, effort or hard cash), but nobody forces anybody to do any of it.  There is an ever-widening and dangerous gulf between club and county and there is a very real danger that these payments will further widen that gulf.

[RadioGAAGAA]

The Down County squad has been training up to 4 nights a week, for at least the last month. One of the players was dropped off the squad allegedly for going to a club dinner.
Unless you are a school teacher, a student, self employed or working for a county supporter, how can you work at a normal job, travel 40 miles away to training for 7pm, home at 10-11pm, challenge matches at weekends etc etc without a lot of hassle? Something has to give.

That is the problem here IMO. An inter-county (IC) player is expected to give up anything between 4-7 nights/days training for the championship.


I think the GAA need to mandate a standard for training and fixtures that encompasses the whole country, set clear boundaries between club time and county time. Then limits are applied which ensure that players are not asked to make unreasonable commitments.


For instance, all counties play senior club games on a sunday, all clubs train on tues and thurs - and if there is no game, train on sunday as well. Counties can train on wednesdays - thats it. Limit it to 1 day a week, IC football should be moving towards less of a step above club football IMO - more like what internationals are for soccer players.

A week before the IC championship, normally IC players won't play much anyway - so the clubs shouldn't train that week, the counties can do what they want - train those 5 evenings.

I also think that the intercounty championships need to be re-arranged so more than 1 game within a province occurs on the one day. If all the 1st round games (in the country) were played on the one day TV couldn't cover them all and some revenue would be lost (imagine that - all them county grounds actually getting used and being for 1st round games again!) but, is money more important than the soul of the association - I think not. Condensing the IC fixtures will free up more time for club football, and let the IC players play for their clubs instead of train for their counties.




For those advocating the grants - IMO its extremely dangerous, look at the state of local soccer and rugby. The cornerstone of the GAA is the club and the volunteer club member - they bring in the future.

The foundations of any organisation is not near the top (where the GPA thinks it is) - they are at roots. It would extremely unwise to marginalise that which the association is built on.

[Rois]

To the man who is selling a club raffle ticket - I don't think that a County player getting a few quid for his efforts will be a problem with the punter who pays to watch him at Clones as he earns the GAAs money.

Imagine you were someone who went to a county referees committee meeting every week.  You were responsible for organising referee assessments in the county for as many matches as humanly possible.  You spent your time circulating letters to referees, phoning them up, rearranging for last minute hitches.  Then you have to assess a referee (maybe two) every weekend yourself.  During the summer you cover matches for the Ulster Council and Croke Park (intercounty obviously).  You write reports, collate reports from other assessors and organise referee training.  You have to go to Dublin a couple of times a year (from Tyrone) to get an update on recent refereeing and assessment issues.
Now, that's the intercounty effort.  As a clubperson you attend the weekly committee meeting.  You meet outside these meetings with the other members of the club development committee to organise the lottery application and plan the new training pitch.  You contact the surveyors,  architects, meet with the bank to discuss your financing.  You spend half an hour collecting the club lotto envelopes each week. 

Why would you do this?  Because you choose to.  You don't expect payment for it, because it makes you feel good to do it, you're part of a club, part of a county. 

In what way is that a less valuable contribution to the GAA than the intercounty player? 

[bennydorano]

there is a very clear distinction O Neill - we don't have elite athletes. My definition of elite athletes are those that get paid to play their sport.

A good start would be to go get a dictionary and get a defintion of what elite actually means, not what you want it to mean to suit an agenda.