Meeting of Grassroots to Discuss our Strategy re GPA

[his holiness nb]

Mid Louth - thanks for the welcome.
I agree that some clubs don't play a manager - many do.
You don't tackle my main point - the critics of players getting paid a few quid seem happy to turn a blind eye to all the other money sloshing about. Inter county managers are earning what? €50k, €100k - we all hear rumours? Can someone tell us (without naming names of course).

Redblack, most people dissaprove of managers being paid. Its against the rules.
I aso like how you say SOME dont pay, then MANY do, as if to suggest the majority of clubs do this 
I'm sick of hearing the managers being paid argument as somehow justifying the grants, two wrongs dont make a right, how many times do we need to say it!!!

I train underage teams in my club and it costs me - diesel, phones, kit washing, training gear, time.

You have to pay for training gear??? Seriously??? I dont know of ANY club who wont provide this. I just dont beleive that.

Club soccer/rugby players pay to play - gaelic footballers/hurlers still will for their club/parish. But if you ask a guy to put his career and family on hold for 5-10 years, then surely he deserves something. I don't resent paying to watch inter-county football - the players provide the entertainment and often suffer for it.

Who is asking the player to put his career and family on old. I know of a certain well known meath footballer who manages to play intercounty, has a wife and two small children, a decent career and also found the time to run for election to the dail!!! And he is still playing in Leinster with his club even at this stage of the year.
Certainly doesnt seem to have put anything on hold.
And look at the state of club soccer and Rugby in Ireland, its a shambles.

This is a terrible argument.

[Rois]

Mr Conway was nearly in tears on TV and radio about the sacrosanct amateur status of the GAA. Who is he kidding? Tyrone spend hundreds of thousands on their quest for AI glory every year.

You're right Tyrone spend a great deal of money each year, a lot of which comes from voluntary contributions from Club Tyrone members (a quarter of a million or thereabouts) who value the voluntary contributions of time and effort from others (players, officials, administrators).

In the sentiments of the county board, if the Tyrone players were to get a grant of £2k cold hard cash each and end the benefits there, the county board would be a lot better off.  

[phpearse]

But if you ask a guy to put his career and family on hold for 5-10 years, then surely he deserves something.

With respect RedBlack shite like that makes me fume. So when player A is asked to join a county squad, a position he can say no to, he is told that he can't get job promotion and that he can't have kids or get married for 5-10 years. Utter crap and a very poor argument.

I would argue that the majority of money funding county team is for the benefit of the players. The hundreds of thousands it costs to fund intercounty teams is spent on food, clothes, travel, physios etc. Would you have it that county players so pick up this bill themselves?? Why would anyone object to a physio getting paid for his job, or a bus driver for doing his.

Managers should not get paid but some do. I know for a fact that in his first 2 years in charge of Tyrone Mickey Harte did not take one penny from the county board, not even mileage. I'm not sure what he does now but that was certainly the case when he started. However the issue with managers getting paid is that it is behind closed doors and secretive. It won't appear in the clubs accounts at the AGM, so it is very difficult to go after anyone. Players getting paid in this fashion is however very open. If managers are received massive pay deals, then surely the Revenue can audit these kinds of things. If you are driving a new car, how did you pay for that? It's now up to people to prove they earned any money and paid tax on it.

[tyrone86]

When the OrangeMen won their one and only AI they allegedly spent up to £500,000.00. There were men turning up to training to do stats, physios, fitness/nutrition people and management - were these people all doing it for the love of their county?
Mr Conway was nearly in tears on TV and radio about the sacrosanct amateur status of the GAA. Who is he kidding? Tyrone spend hundreds of thousands on their quest for AI glory every year. Every half decent club side - Junior/Int/Snr pays a manager - what did Dromore spend this year?
Inter County players need to live, they deserve all they get.
Times move on, we are in a competitive market place in most of Ireland. Soccer and rugby are sniping at us - if we don't look after our no. 1 asset - the players, we will ultimately flounder.

Mark Conway was, and still is, the key figure in success story of the Club Tyrone model that now is the basis for so many counties funding the hundreds of thousands they spend on their county teams. Surely he has contributed has much to our Association as Dessie Farrell and has much right to voice his opinion on something that could transpire to be as minor as the removal of the ban, rule 21 or rule 42 or to be the worst mistake in the history of the Association.

Re: IC players need to live and deserve all they get - illustrate please the difference between a non county Crossmaglen Rangers player and any other County player in the country in this respect. Why are they less entitled to the grant when their commitment is surely equal to that of an IC Player at worse. At least many of the IC players got a bit of a break from Football over this past 18 months.

[scalder]

I see Dessie is calling the meeting a "rump group" – I'd suggest that you need to break out of Ulster and have a Dublin meeting asap if you are to avoid this tag and the lazy headlines of "Ulster Says No".

Dublin meeting for next week lads while you have the medias attention!

[his holiness nb]

I see Dessie is calling the meeting a "rump group" – I'd suggest that you need to break out of Ulster and have a Dublin meeting asap if you are to avoid this tag and the lazy headlines of "Ulster Says No".

Dublin meeting for next week lads while you have the medias attention!

I'd agree with that, theres some lazy stereotypes out there about Ulster GAA going back to the rule 42 debate.
They will uses theses stereotypes to discredit you if its just coming from the North.

[RedBlack]

The Down County squad has been training up to 4 nights a week, for at least the last month. One of the players was dropped off the squad allegedly for going to a club dinner.
Unless you are a school teacher, a student, self employed or working for a county supporter, how can you work at a normal job, travel 40 miles away to training for 7pm, home at 10-11pm, challenge matches at weekends etc etc without a lot of hassle? Something has to give.
The IC palyers/GPA are also GAA men - have they all become greedy b*stards overnight, with no love for the association or game? Maybe they see everyone else gettin a slice of the cake and resent it - I don't know, but I have some sympathy for them.

[his holiness nb]

The Down County squad has been training up to 4 nights a week, for at least the last month. One of the players was dropped off the squad allegedly for going to a club dinner.
Unless you are a school teacher, a student, self employed or working for a county supporter, how can you work at a normal job, travel 40 miles away to training for 7pm, home at 10-11pm, challenge matches at weekends etc etc without a lot of hassle? Something has to give.I

If a player was dropped for going to a club dinner, thats the managers issue and nothing to do with grants. If he got this grant would he not have been dropped??

Re the highlighted commitments above,  many club players do the very same thing.
Me personally, I worked a "normal job" 30 miles from home last year, got home for training at 8. Got home approx 10.30pm, then trained or travelled to games at the weekend, should I get the grant???
Nope, I'm just a club player 
Yes its "hassle" because its a commitment to attend these training session and matches. But its a choice. If your work situation does not permit this commitment, you either find a job that does or dont train / play. Are you suggesting this small grant will make a difference to these circumstances or are you argueing for full on professionalism? I cant see how the grant would solve these problems.


p.s. I dont know of many training sessions involving players who need to travel starting as early as 7pm, thats stupidity on the managements behlaf and nothing to do with the grants.

[orangeman]

You must be one of them Redblack  

[pintsofguinness]

Redblack, an argument about how much a players trains is really pointless as I can't imagine anyone here who's against the grants advocating that amount off training and I would rather see the GAA come out and issue guidelines and rules around the time spent training.  btw you do realise that if they grants go through the players will be expected to give the gaa more of their time.


I see our pro grant camp have gone around in silly circles this morning, everything from players not being fit to have kids to Brolly should be working for the RTE for free to it's the organisers fault of last night's meeting that no one spoke in favour of the grants.

Can I just ask those in favour of the grants a very simple question and a yes or no answer will do.
Do you think this issue should go to the membership as rules 42 and 21 did?

[full back]

Can I just ask those in favour of the grants a very simple question and a yes or no answer will do.
Do you think this issue should go to the membership as rules 42 and 21 did?

Yes

[rrhf]

Good point, something has to give, and restrictions may well need to be enforced, but thats not a strong enough arguement to bring in pay for play.  I have studied most of the debate from the GPA supporters and have found that their arguements for pay for play are often based on attacking people, their viewpoints being vague and now currently trying to isolate a province. 
Many people are also apathetic, I hate to have a go at you O Neill and If Im wrong I apologise but you seem to watch your GAA on television, so these guys are maybe the grassroots to you. 
I would have strong reservations about anyone who would paint a county footballer as a greedy bastard, and was actually openminded about the whole debate, but Im now concerned that it will have ordinary people leaving in droves.  They contribute so much but too me they have always gained the most from their association with the association.  It is that amateur ethic at work here not smallminded people but indeed successful smart thinkers who recognise the value of all our input.  I believe fundraising efforts like club Tyrone will be mortally wounded instantanaeously.  You have to ask yourself why does a man cut a pitch, why does he wash a jersey whay does he attend meetings and why does he waste his own time, why does he buy a ticket, give donations and finacial aid to the gaa and get so passionate and het up at protecting the GAA when under threat.  Why because its his way of contributing to society but in the main its all about providing better for our sportsmen and women. What amazing facilities have already been put in place.  In any opther sport you will not get to play at the highest level unless you are a professional full time athlete,  You will not get to play in front of crowds and you will not be held in such prestige.  I dont know what part of the deal is wrong for county footballers.  Sometimes I wonder are they happy to be represented by Dessie and when did they elect him, how did he manage to get onto central council and all that?  Could somebody on central council please stand up for the sizable opposition to this deal. Why do the GPA go for the money, there are other more important issue concerning players that need addressed.  Why go for the money?
As for the future of the GAA and I ask debaters not to insult anyones intelligence,  call it what it is, if the GAA does go professional,  forget about voluntary effort at the level it has been in 10 years time.  You will still have the clubs and many  within them will still persevere and toil, kind of like sunday league soccor,  but I can assure you many will not.  But as far as the county is concerned I cant speak for anybody but myself,  I dont think I woiuld be particularly  interested in attending a Tyrone county game again.  That will mean very little to most people, but thats currently the way I feel and I wonder is ther many out there who feel the same.   

[full back]

Clubmember previously pointed out on this board that its not about the money its about the recognition for the players

[Rois]

Its clear from reading here that not to many of you play county football in todays world. I do, and for anyone to even remotely sugget that the average club footballer puts in the same amount of time and dedecation simply does not have the vaguest clue. If you want to play county football you have no choice, it is either all or nothing. And I am from a county where we have no success. the GAA should rename its self as the HAA, the Hypocritical Athletic Assoc.

Why do you do it?

[his holiness nb]

Its clear from reading here that not to many of you play county football in todays world. I do, and for anyone to even remotely sugget that the average club footballer puts in the same amount of time and dedecation simply does not have the vaguest clue. If you want to play county football you have no choice, it is either all or nothing. And I am from a county where we have no success. the GAA should rename its self as the HAA, the Hypocritical Athletic Assoc.

Actually from the last poll we have quite a few intercounty players on here  

Why would the GAA rename themselves as the Hypocritical Athletic Assoc over this debate?? They arent against the grants, remember.