Players on Strike?/Real Debate (Merged)

[deiseach]

Tom Fennelly . . . maybe we should merge this with the Good solid GAA names thread too?

[darbyo]

It isn't the potential for bankruptcy that bother me about the paying of players. It's that the association would be opening itself up to events over which it could not have control. Can you see the parish rule (for example) surviving a scenario where a player could earn more playing for a different club / county?

I agree 100% with that, if all other things were equal and on Christmas day all senior intercounty players woke up to a €50,000 cheque under the tree, that would be fine by me, but the reality of going professional would change the GAA completely (and we could never fund it anyway)

Fine
Ban the payment of managers. All clubs adhere to this, then you will find that there are a few GAA mad fellas that will coach teams, but most then would not be bothered and clubs will find it hard to attract a manager

100% correct also, the reason that players don't mind if a coach gets paid while they slog it out for nothing is that players want quality coaches to give them the best chance of success. As a player I'd rather a paid, organised, qualified coach over my team than a volunteer committed club man who doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

[lynchbhoy]

That's what I was looking for, sure how did the Miner's strike finish up 

a few hospitalised and the mines ending up all closed as financially not viable to run, thus the miners all lost their jobs...

of course they can strike

and if they do, the county board drops them and picks a new panel of the next best players.
As AZ says, the grassroots in the counties will have no sympathy for them....

will be fun seeing if they can do as well with their future careers then without the lift of being in the GAA and intercounty players gives them

[Croí na hÉireann]

Sorry, what was the question again?

I'm not being facetious with that. Most of the issues you allude to are discussed as a matter of routine on this board, as Gnevin's post confirms, and to try and join that debate by saying that there hasn't been a "real" debate until you brought your Cicero-like skills to the party is just plain rude.

I'm gonna stick my neck out here but when I read clubmembers first post, my first thoughts were clubmember=dublinfella. Hopefully I'm wrong and it's just de end of a long week. What county r u from clubmember and any new lads for 2008 we should know about???

[darbyo]

I don't think the players will strike but unlike some on here I'd have sympathy for them and certainly wouldn't take the attitude of 'screw them, we'll fill the team with less talented (but committed) lads'. There is never just one side to a story and just because players speak of money they shouldn't be blacklisted as self serving elitists.

[believebelive]

I know the arguments about club managers getting paid but I still think that once this point has been conceded as ok then it will inevitably lead to players getting paid.

From my own personal expereince I have had four club managers. Two were paid and two were not. The two who were not were club men who knew what they were doing and got the full respect and commitment from the players. We had successful years. Of the two who were paid one was from outside the club did not know his arse from his elbow and it ended up knowbody wanted to play for him knowing he was picking up 150 euro per week. The other was a club man but the players still resented that he got paid to manage his own club and certainly thought the extra effort he was putting in - compared to when he as a player - was not worth 150 euro a week.
I was also a member of a team where a player was paid a brown envelope to not play soccer. It was our worst year ever. No matter how well he played the rest of us were just not as committed.

I firmly believe we are different because we do not pay players and when this changes we will lose averything we hold dear.

[Clubmember]

Agreed. By the way  good point made there about managers/lads already being paid. What is the scholarship grant all about? The GAA are paying players those grants. Why isn't anyone up in arms over this?

Nobody is up in arms because theres nothing wrong with it and as far as i know the grants are sponsored by private businesses and not from GAA coffers.
They are paid by central and provincial councils directly. There are GAA grants/College grants and think GPA do grants too. All direct and legit payments to players.

We are in a very unique organisation, so why do we have to be pigeon holed into whether we are professional or amateur - the truth of the matter is that the GAA is placed somewhere in between and is very successful in this unique position!

Agreed we don't have to be pigeon holed but at the same time you can't be an "inbetween thing". Listening to players, it's hardly working. Not in favour of professionlism by the way, as our games are indiginous it wouldn't work but I think a grant will help quell the march !

[Clubmember]

The problem with this is that there are far too many 'a la carte GAA' people about. I find it absolutley absurd that people can argue that a manager deserves 'paid' because of the time and effort that he puts in. Even if he does give more time and effort to the job than the player (doubtful in my opinion but I am prepared to concede the point for the sake of the argument) it would be very easy for the player to say that his lifestyle sacrifices are much more than the manager.
But anyway all this is somantics. The bottom line is this. managers, coaches and players should not be paid or receieve grant aid for playing the game.

Has anyone read what the players will be entitled to claim for if this thing goes through - internet usage, tax, insurance - why should players get this incentive and ordinary members not.

The GAA has royally messed this up. They have conceded the principal and have looked the other way to payment of manager. The Association will be unrecognisable in 20 years.

Not being smart but why should ordinary members get it? While our role as important as county player in the association at large. You or I don't bring in millions of euros to the GAA coffers or government in form of revenue, so why would we be entitled to it?

[Clubmember]

No issue at all with paying managers for what they do but lets not start being hypocritical about payments. I can't understand how nobody has an issue with these players getting this money ,,,"as long as its not on our watch" nobody is talking about professionalism here it's just an extension of a grant scheme already administered by the GAA to students.

I dont think it is even in the same planet let alone same ball park to be honest.
Apart from money being used in these cases, you are talking about a new concept completely.

Grants/payments/butter vouchers to players is py for play - professionalism.
The association cannot sustain this and give money to the underage development of our games as well - let alone the rest.
think of it
32 counties (do we factor in NY, San Fran, Boston, England, London, Warwickshire, Luton, Scotland , Cayman islands, Australia etc then)
With 32 counties with 30 men per squad then double that as the same must go for hurling...
thats not a lot of money left per man...
Then what about Womens sports - Camogie and Football. Then Handball and then Gaelic rounders....Scor, Fleadh ceoils....etc etc

We cannot pay for all of these as we do not and will not get the same kind of revenue as the eg Champions league in soccer gets.
If we could , then I'd be all for it, and pay our lads.
We cannot bankrupt our association because of some honourable , yes alas , fanciful notion.

Nobody is asking the GAA to pay it...only administer it. The government have agreed to give the money but they cannot admister it. Ladies/Camoigie/Handball etc will be on the back foot here as I'm sure the governm,ent have agreed to pay this on the basis that inter county games bring in so much to the exchequer. 

[Clubmember]

That's what I was looking for, sure how did the Miner's strike finish up 

a few hospitalised and the mines ending up all closed as financially not viable to run, thus the miners all lost their jobs...

of course they can strike

and if they do, the county board drops them and picks a new panel of the next best players.
As AZ says, the grassroots in the counties will have no sympathy for them....

will be fun seeing if they can do as well with their future careers then without the lift of being in the GAA and intercounty players gives them

If that was te case people would attend club matches in their thousands and sponsors would be pumping millions into club teams. There is a reason all this mony is generated as I keep saying. Serious probs for GAA if they start fielding lesser teams.

[Clubmember]

Im not bothered either way on the issue, but was wondering..
Who are the GPA trying to help?
Will the money be divided out equally or will it be a case of Animal Farm?
IMHO, very few of the elite players are losing income because of their participation - in fact many have made their living purely because they are GAA players

Out of the 2000 or so inter county players..how many do you think do well out of it? Maybe 100/200 max. What about a Leitrim hurler? From looking at the proposal every inter county player involved in a squad of a season will get something, which is a lot better than getting nothing.

[darbyo]

I'm not saying that many county players aren't well looked after, but not all county panels can boast of such largese. This is the point I'm making, you'll have lads coming on here saying that GPA member X doesn't give a fiddlers about the GAA in general but only lining his own pockets etc., well unless you personally know the guy you can't know his personal motivations. Nor is anyone on this board familiar with the sitaution in all the counties, in both codes. I'm fairly relaxed about the whole GPA thing, I'd like to see the GAA take the lead with player welfare(which I think they are beginning to) but it is no harm to have an outside body representing players views anyway.
                       As for paying managers we can all recount stories which back up our point i.e local club manger useless/outside paid manger brilliant or vica versa. The point is, it takes a lot of time, effort and knowledge to be a good coach/manager. If a club has one and he is willing to do it for free...brilliant, the perfect solution. If they don't and are willing to pay for one then I have no problem with it. There is no principle to fight over here, paying managers has being going on for some time now, but it is not hypocritical like some suggest to say that paying managers is ok while paying players is not.

[deiseach]

You or I don't bring in millions of euros to the GAA coffers or government in form of revenue, so why would we be entitled to it?

The players don't bring in the bucks either. It's what Jerry Seinfeld called 'rooting for laundry'.

[Armagh Exile]

Let Dessie & Co. go on strike.
Who is going to worry?

[darbyo]

Well I'd worry, although it won't happen, the ending of the inter county scene would be a disaster for the GAA and sport in general inthis country.