Players on Strike?/Real Debate (Merged)

[Balboa]

Are you Enda Mc Nulty/Dessie Farrell?

[Gabriel_Hurl]

It seems to just be a place for a few browned off individuals to rant and rave

What was that?

[AZOffaly]

Welcome aboard Clubmember. I think if you stick around you will find there is plenty of debate, and good natured slagging on these forums, although there is a large amount of messers as well, but sure you have them everywhere.

As to your point, I'm afraid I disagree with practically all of it. The GAA may be an amateur organisation, apart from a few full time paid officials, but that does not mean it doesn't need money. In fact an amateur organisation with so many clubs and teams up and down the country needs every penny it can get, but not to give to the players, managers or anyone else, apart from their deserved and fair expenses.

The GAA makes money, and quite rightly ploughs it back into infrastructure, coaching, preparing teams, maintaining grounds, grants and other costs involved in running a huge association, from Junior hurling clubs in Mayo to Senior Inter county teams. That's where all the money is needed, and that is where it goes in the most part.

In my opinion, the structure of Club and County is fine as it is, although I would like to see a slightly shorter inter-county season to allow the clubs have more access to their best players.

I would be totally against payment as any sort of reward for playing the games, but I would like to see them properly looked after, which in fairness is a lot better these days, certainly since I played at a decent level back in the 90s. I remember the county secretary coming in and making us go and get back the jersies we had swapped after a game!

By all means look after the players with gear, holidays, injury funds, masseurs, physio etc etc.

Anyway, I think we are 180degrees apart on this issue, but hopefully we'll find something we agree on if you stick around.

PS. I missed your second last paragraph, but I think you are misreading the opinion here. Most people are fine with the Government giving these grants to players. The GAA themselves support the initiative, and as you say most people I know are in favour of the grants. The issue is that the GAA cannot be seen to be the ones handing the money over, because as soon as the belts get tightened in Leinster house, the GPA will turn to the GAA to continue with the grants, therefore it becomes de-facto pay for play.

[Clubmember]

Kinda proves my point. Bit frustrating but may explain why people who want to express a view won't do it here.

Whatever you do don't respond to anything I wrote!

From west of the shannon

[AZOffaly]

Sorry Clubmember, you've posted this twice. I responded in the other thread.

*****

Welcome aboard Clubmember. I think if you stick around you will find there is plenty of debate, and good natured slagging on these forums, although there is a large amount of messers as well, but sure you have them everywhere.

As to your point, I'm afraid I disagree with practically all of it. The GAA may be an amateur organisation, apart from a few full time paid officials, but that does not mean it doesn't need money. In fact an amateur organisation with so many clubs and teams up and down the country needs every penny it can get, but not to give to the players, managers or anyone else, apart from their deserved and fair expenses.

The GAA makes money, and quite rightly ploughs it back into infrastructure, coaching, preparing teams, maintaining grounds, grants and other costs involved in running a huge association, from Junior hurling clubs in Mayo to Senior Inter county teams. That's where all the money is needed, and that is where it goes in the most part.

In my opinion, the structure of Club and County is fine as it is, although I would like to see a slightly shorter inter-county season to allow the clubs have more access to their best players.

I would be totally against payment as any sort of reward for playing the games, but I would like to see them properly looked after, which in fairness is a lot better these days, certainly since I played at a decent level back in the 90s. I remember the county secretary coming in and making us go and get back the jersies we had swapped after a game!

By all means look after the players with gear, holidays, injury funds, masseurs, physio etc etc.

Anyway, I think we are 180degrees apart on this issue, but hopefully we'll find something we agree on if you stick around.

PS. I missed your second last paragraph, but I think you are misreading the opinion here. Most people are fine with the Government giving these grants to players. The GAA themselves support the initiative, and as you say most people I know are in favour of the grants. The issue is that the GAA cannot be seen to be the ones handing the money over, because as soon as the belts get tightened in Leinster house, the GPA will turn to the GAA to continue with the grants, therefore it becomes de-facto pay for play.

[Deal_Me_In]

Clubmenber, I think you may have mis understood what most posters think here:

Very few have any objection to the government paying the elite (intercounty player) of the game but agree with the GAA in its stance that they are to take no involvement in the process of the payment. The GPAs militant stance on striking is causing their support (minimal in my opinion) to dwindle when they are not answering  the questions asked of them. The GAA is not at fault for the government not facilitating the payment and a strike would in effect be an act against the GAA which almost nobody involved in the organisation would support.

With regards to many other of your points about sponsorship, soccer/rugby, Dublin economics on match day etc. This is irrelevant to this particular debate and each has it own merits for debate, many of which have been repeatedly discussed here and will be discussed again if you stay a member long enough.

P.S. Welcome to the board

[magpie seanie]

The GPA will be heartened by the fact that last night former GAA president Sean Kelly said he had every sympathy for the players' organisation.

GGGGRRRRrrrrrrrrrr.

[ross matt]

Have to agree with Clubmember. It's very closed off on this board and the quality of the posts has disimproved greatly over the last year or two regardless of whether it's open or closed season. It used to be an excellent site and whilst there are still some fine contributors they are posting less and less in my opinion. Think you're wasting your time if you're looking to an intelligent response to your clearly well thought out comments.

[lynchbhoy]

Welcome to the board, will try to answer that myself.
But there was a big long thread (ok with some personal rows in it) previously. I am sure you will get the same answers and perspectives in that thread as you may do in this one.

Local soccer isn't professional, the fact that there is professional soccer out there has no effect on local soccer, why people play or the financing of local grass roots clubs and players. (not talking about LOI here, tbut they only look after their own too)
Your local club were a bit daft in their stance about trying to make kids choose one sport. I'd do the opposite, encourage participation in all sports available.
Two reasons - firstly playing other sports widens your range of skills and can only benefit your all round athletic skills and ability (thats partially why Irish rugby players are poorly skilled - as too many of them have only played rugby, you can see the lads who have also played soccer/GAA a mile away in a rugby match).

I think you are entitled to your oen opinions the GAA and elitism. I just cannot agree with your perspective on this.
In one light yes they are taking money, but this money is used to fund GAA activities. Remember that when you drive past a spanking new clubhouse in the middle of nowhere in county Longford, Clare or Kerry.
Admin staff are a must as legally and morally we cannot expect people to perform these duties for nothing and if so, there would be clamour for visibility at every minute instance regarding money.
I hear some people talking about they expect more from intercounty players, but always, players give everything. No one really expects more.There are a few loonies (less than 1%) who may mention money, but thats what you will always get with people and personalities in Ireland.
If Dublin, Derry or Monaghan dont win SAM, I or their fans will not go mad and only one team can win each year and we know that is the case.
Players play football because they like it and usually because they are good at it - when older.
Intercounty players like the vocation to play football. They can walk away at any time, and while their talent may be missed, there will be 10 lads dying to jump at the cjhance to play intercounty football - and would prob PAY FOR the privilege of playing, rather than look for money.
For all the cash generated from Advertising, opening of Croker etc there is still not enough to sustain a pro or even semi pro level of gaelic games.
Look at what happened rugby in wales. Look what nearly happened to rugby in Ireland - and what did happen to Connacht.
We are at the peak of our financial powers and will never make enough in a small population of less than 6 million to sustain pro GAA, soccer and rugby.
Unless you want to just pay the top players. that then is even worse and a debate which is completely pointless.

The GAA may be making millions of euros 'off the backs' of the players - but this money goes down to grass roots.Its not as if its all being covertly lodged in swiss bank accounts- unless you know more !

We are an amateur GAME. But the Administration does not have to be amateur. It couldnt work in modern day sceptical paranoid Ireland.
The Games continue though and long may they do so. you have asked some decent questions and made some good points. But from my persepctive, I'm happy with how things operate, and want to leave it as they are. Exceptional

[Gnevin]

No debate? Read these from the 1st page of the football discussion alone

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4764.0
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=5040.0
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=5094.0
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=5067.0
And of course this thread

Their's also the Shinty thread , the Hurling format. The speed thread , was the rugby thead 

[Declan]

Welcome aboard. Waht we have in the GAA is unique in relation to top class sports worldwide and the main reason for that is the amateur status and the emotional bond players have with "their" team and their people. Professional sport by its very essence is corrupt and the vast majority of GAA people do not want any form of pay per play - Look after the lads who fill Croker OK by way of reasonable expenses training aids etc etc but direct reimbursement is a no-no.

It has its faults and there are chnages necessary to improve and progreess and I'm one who has plenty of run ins with them but on balance it is a very positive influence on people and society in general. 

[Clubmember]

Lads

Thanks for the welcome. I certainly think that the people who replied seem very genuine and open to a proper debate where views can be aried without getting personal.

In response to some of your queries:

Magpie Seanie: Not too sure what GGGGGGRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr means put presume you are not of of the people mentioned above.

Deal Me In : The GPAs militant stance on striking is causing their support (minimal in my opinion)
A: Don't agree here all of players families and firends know what they are at and general public will support em

to dwindle when they are not answering  the questions asked of them - A: what are the questions unanwsered?


The GAA is not at fault for the government not facilitating the payment and a strike would in effect be an act against the GAA which almost nobody involved in the organisation would support.
A: Agreed but in fairness the GPA can hardly administer funding. This yoke been goin gon for years.. how else is it resolved!?

With regards to many other of your points about sponsorship, soccer/rugby, Dublin economics on match day etc. This is irrelevant to this particular debate and each has it own merits for debate, many of which have been repeatedly discussed here and will be discussed again if you stay a member long enough. - Looking forward to it.


AZ Offaly:
As to your point, I'm afraid I disagree with practically all of it. The GAA may be an amateur organisation, apart from a few full time paid officials, but that does not mean it doesn't need money. In fact an amateur organisation with so many clubs and teams up and down the country needs every penny it can get, but not to give to the players, managers or anyone else, apart from their deserved and fair expenses.
A: I agree it needs money to know but let's get the most out of it's biggest cash cow (players) and recognise them. I don't think the GPA aren't even officially recognised....that is a joke and making a mockery out of a system they support financially.


The GAA makes money, and quite rightly ploughs it back into infrastructure, coaching, preparing teams, maintaining grounds, grants and other costs involved in running a huge association, from Junior hurling clubs in Mayo to Senior Inter county teams. That's where all the money is needed, and that is where it goes in the most part.
A: I don't think anyone would disagree with that but there is plenty of money floating around the GAA and plenty more could be made too!

In my opinion, the structure of Club and County is fine as it is, although I would like to see a slightly shorter inter-county season to allow the clubs have more access to their best players.
A: Defo agreed....pain in arse as a club player hanging around. Although a decent fixture list would probably sort this. Some report out this week might help

I would be totally against payment as any sort of reward for playing the games, but I would like to see them properly looked after, which in fairness is a lot better these days, certainly since I played at a decent level back in the 90s. I remember the county secretary coming in and making us go and get back the jersies we had swapped after a game!
By all means look after the players with gear, holidays, injury funds, masseurs, physio etc etc.

A: What is "properly looked after?" How much gear? I know a lad that was out of work for 12 weeks through injury and if you check the injury scheme (not an insurance scheme) for all players (club&county) you are not entitled to loss of earnings all you get is: week1 - nothing week2-4 €200 per week. You do the maths ! Also heard from a london player that they have no scheme have to wait on NHS waiting lists.  Also take a player ...say Galway or Waterford playing in this years championship...they are only entitled to PURCHASE 2 tickets from county board for all irleland. That's hardly fair when members of central council automatically get a large number of tickets for their efforts throughout the year (they are also entitled as is an GAA official to claim mileage etc)

There is not universal acceptance that coaches, managers etc get paid.  _ I have to argue that with yuou and also clarify - Not all managers are paid but a lot are. Nickey Brennan promised he was going to root them out but did nothing about it. If we are not going to tolerate payments to them, lets not!
I would be totally against that, apart from legitimate expenses.
Outside people employed by the GAA to do a paid service is a different matter. Those people are not necessarily even members of the organisation, so why would they provide catering services etc for free? That's their job. A: At this stage playing is like a full time job ; we all know what they give. Effectively caterers make a profit for the GAA, so do players, what's the difference? It's sad to think in Croke park on a match day almost everyone working there is paid (including officials - through regular employments or tickets etc) expect the most valuable asset we have to promote our games. I'm a club player I get f**ked over with fixtures and peed off at the county lads coming back into set up but I know that my team will not fund the club for a year and that the level we are at training /playing wise is at about 50% of the county lads.


Sorry don't have time to reply to everyone, but thanks for restoring my faith in some healthy debate! I'll defo stick around and probably annoy the heads off most of ya with my opinions!

[Hound]

Professional sport by its very essence is corrupt

Jeez Dec, you've been on this board too long!


Personally, I don't blame the players for having a go at looking for money. But just because the look for it doesnt mean we have to give it to them. Maybe there will come a time in the distant future when its the right thing to do, but there's no chance of the GAA directly paying its intercounty players in the short or even medium term. Therefore i think its ridiculous when people get so uptight about the players looking for money and calling them all kinds of names (its not going to happen, so relax) - this from the same people who turn a complete blind eye to managers getting paid. And of course there are some players in some counties who get money from sources other than the county board. I know of one for certain who got money not to go to Oz, and doubtless there are others - albeit in total it'd be small proportion.


As for the hoopla about there'd be nobody to line the pitches etc etc if we started paying players. Utter utter nonsense.

[Declan]

Jeez Dec, you've been on this board too long!

- I know getting cranky. Its just the more I see of "professional sports" particularly the elite end of it the more I get disillusioned. With the honourable exception of golf I can't think of a game that has any prniciples/standards and in my mind there is a whole different argument about whether golf is actually a sport at all!!!!!!

As for the hoopla about there'd be nobody to line the pitches etc etc if we started paying players. Utter utter nonsense.

Agreed

[Hound]

The GPA will be heartened by the fact that last night former GAA president Sean Kelly said he had every sympathy for the players' organisation.

GGGGRRRRrrrrrrrrrr.

Nicky Brennan has every sympathy for them as well. But whether its Brennan or Kelly or anyone else at the top, there is no chance of the GAA paying the players directly. There also seems no chance the government or sports council will pay them directly either as it would open the floodgates for all amateur sport. The GPA are snookered.

Maybe the GPA will build a new headquarters, get a €5m "capital grant" from the govt and pay that to the players.