Kneecap...

[David McKeown]

Surely theres precedent to ignoring that particular law given the amount of loyalist flags you'll see over the next few weeks and have been seeing for years..

Yes, the UDA UVF LVF and so on proscribed organisations flegs, anyone putting them up will they get the same attention?

I doubt it very much and there will be no call out against it by even the nationalist or republican political parties..

BTW I've tried to listen to their music, still crap    

To bring a prosecution two tests must be met. The evidential test ie is there enough evidence to secure a conviction. If so then a public interest test is applied.

There would be a clear public interest argument (not saying I agree with it) that you wouldn't prosecute in Northern Ireland for local proscribed organisations. That argument would be considerably lessened in London for a predominantly overseas organisation.

Also it's not a defence to say well I wouldn't have been prosecuted in an other jurisdiction with similar legislative provisions. Nor is it a defence to say well such and such didn't get prosecuted for this.

The famous line once used when I tried to raise such an argument was. If there is any honour amongst thieves they should rejoice in their comrades good fortune not take sorrow in their own misfortune.

Again none of this should be taken as me espousing a view either way on the case.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

the last few pages play right into Israeli propagandists (if played out in a broader context.  for the avoidance of doubt I don't think Israelis read this forum etc.) hands by distracting away form the 100s murdered by Israel and its ISIS proxies daily while they try to get food

Just to clarify, people discussing whether or not Kneecap/Mo Chara played into the hands of the Israeli propaganda machine, is what plays into the Israeli propaganda machine? You're gonna have to elaborate on that one.

I'm genuinely shocked that this has to be explained.. kneecap have continually stated they are not the story. Given your recent exchange and our previous exchanges, I'm aware of your pendanic nature, I'll add israel doesn't want the babies they murdered to be the story, they want distractions and victimhood

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/kneecap-say-terror-charge-is-carnival-of-distraction-and-political-policing-1765379.html

[Truthsayer]

the last few pages play right into Israeli propagandists (if played out in a broader context.  for the avoidance of doubt I don't think Israelis read this forum etc.) hands by distracting away form the 100s murdered by Israel and its ISIS proxies daily while they try to get food

Just to clarify, people discussing whether or not Kneecap/Mo Chara played into the hands of the Israeli propaganda machine, is what plays into the Israeli propaganda machine? You're gonna have to elaborate on that one.

I'm genuinely shocked that this has to be explained.. kneecap have continually stated they are not the story. Given your recent exchange and our previous exchanges, I'm aware of your pendanic nature, I'll add israel doesn't want the babies they murdered to be the story, they want distractions and victimhood

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/kneecap-say-terror-charge-is-carnival-of-distraction-and-political-policing-1765379.html

Exactly. Talking of Israel propaganda machine is comparable to Goebbels propaganda machine. A totally discredited evil lying machine.
Targetting a Rap group is a distraction. Typical of the British establishment tho, Israeli lickspittles.

[gallsman]

I'm genuinely shocked that this has to be explained.. kneecap have continually stated they are not the story. Given your recent exchange and our previous exchanges, I'm aware of your pendanic nature, I'll add israel doesn't want the babies they murdered to be the story, they want distractions and victimhood

It's not pedantry, it's that you've completely failed to understand the nuance of the discussion, not that it was particularly complex to begin with

Of course it's a distraction. Nobody is arguing otherwise. It's patently obviously to anyone with half a brain that that's the intent. The point is that, while fully aware of the carnival of distraction, as they put it, you can't give them an inch. They'll seize on every last sliver of potential controversy they can find to distract from their evil crimes.

Taking that into account, Kneecap are absolutely correct that they're not the story. However, via a momentary piece of daftness, they've offered up precisely that sliver of opportunity to try to discredit them and twist the story from "Kneecap attend in solidarity with Palestine" to "Kneecap glorify terrorism".  That's what was being discussed.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

it certainly is pedantry, look at the back and forth over the charges flying flags or saying up hamas, up hezbollah!!!

while you might not be arguing thats it not a distraction, yet here you are!!!

IMO the question raised by this should be why am chai Israel is not treated worst that up hezbollah/up Hamas or why all other similar offensives are ignored...  Dawn French, Gary linker etc. apologised for naivety, it got them nowhere

[AustinPowers]

Did Gary Lineker apologise?

He might have admitted  breaking some sort of  BBC impartiality rules , but I don't recall him  actually apologising for  what he said. Nor should he

[gallsman]

You appear to be confusing his previous suspension for social media use with his leaving the BBC after re-posting content that contained anti-Semitic themes. He very publicly apologised.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Did Gary Lineker apologise?

He might have admitted  breaking some sort of  BBC impartiality rules , but I don't recall him  actually apologising for  what he said. Nor should he

For what got him fired, yes, very much so.

[johnnycool]

You appear to be confusing his previous suspension for social media use with his leaving the BBC after re-posting content that contained anti-Semitic themes. He very publicly apologised.

Was this the rat thing on the video that he shared?

There was also the wee stuffed octopus toy which is also antisemitic as well!

Is there anything that isn't antisemitic?

 

[PadraicHenryPearse]

it was Greta that had a soft toy octopus

[Banks of the Bann]

What Israel says and thinks doesn't matter, its a genocidal apartheid state that lies and lies and lies.

Israel lies and lies and lies and some people believe their lies.

You think propaganda doesn't work?

It does work and it works very effectively.

If you want proof then look no further than yourself and others on this board that believed and parroted Russian lies (and lies and lies) over their invasion of Ukraine.

You might be immune to Israeli propaganda but you and others were a complete sucker for Russian disinformation.

Hook line and sinker.

[Armagh18]

What Israel says and thinks doesn't matter, its a genocidal apartheid state that lies and lies and lies.

Israel lies and lies and lies and some people believe their lies.

You think propaganda doesn't work?

It does work and it works very effectively.

If you want proof then look no further than yourself and others on this board that believed and parroted Russian lies (and lies and lies) over their invasion of Ukraine.

You might be immune to Israeli propaganda but you and others were a complete sucker for Russian disinformation.

Hook line and sinker.

Any chance of keeping the Ukraine and Russia talk to the right thread?

[Banks of the Bann]

What Israel says and thinks doesn't matter, its a genocidal apartheid state that lies and lies and lies.

Israel lies and lies and lies and some people believe their lies.

You think propaganda doesn't work?

It does work and it works very effectively.

If you want proof then look no further than yourself and others on this board that believed and parroted Russian lies (and lies and lies) over their invasion of Ukraine.

You might be immune to Israeli propaganda but you and others were a complete sucker for Russian disinformation.

Hook line and sinker.

Any chance of keeping the Ukraine and Russia talk to the right thread?

The effectiveness of propaganda is a relevant discussion point.

[Main Street]

What Israel says and thinks doesn't matter, its a genocidal apartheid state that lies and lies and lies.

Israel lies and lies and lies and some people believe their lies.

You think propaganda doesn't work?

It does work and it works very effectively.

If you want proof then look no further than yourself and others on this board that believed and parroted Russian lies (and lies and lies) over their invasion of Ukraine.

You might be immune to Israeli propaganda but you and others were a complete sucker for Russian disinformation.

Hook line and sinker.

Any chance of keeping the Ukraine and Russia talk to the right thread?

The effectiveness of propaganda is a relevant discussion point.

Had the case not been taken against Kneecap/Mo Chara I doubt if anybody in the world wide media or outside their fanbase would've paid any attention to or known about Kneecap and the flag waving incident. As it stands now the benefit to the Israeli cause is far outweighed by the attention this case has garnered. There's some doubt now but should the case go to court this imbalance will surely only increase.

[Main Street]

My point stands:

1. Israel tries to equate any criticism of them as support of Hamas.
2. Kneecap shouting 'Up Hamas' gives Israel an open goal.

It's simple and irrefutable.

Mo Chara left himself open to this by what he shouted and will be used to build the case that he supports a proscribed organisation but make no bones about this the spotlight was shone on them after the Coachella thing in the US.

It looks like the defence are questioning whether the court have jurisdiction on this matter, anyone shed any light on that for us less well informed in the legal gymnastics at play? 

Yes although I think the reporting must be wrong. Either that or I can't read a calendar. The reporting suggesting the issue is one of the case being what's called statute barred.

This offence is what's known as a summary offence meaning it can only be heard in the Magistrates Court. It can not be heard in the Crown Court. Most summary offences (including this one) must be commenced within 6 months. Proceedings are commenced when a complaint is made to a lay magistrate not when a summons is issued. The complained of offence occurred in November. The proceedings don't seem to have been commenced until May. I can't remember the specific dates of either of those but a google suggests the CPS laid the complaint in time (just).

Is the English 6 months thing similar to this bit in Irish law that relates to time between offence and summons?
'Generally speaking, a summons must issue within 6 months of the offence if it is to be dealt with by summary disposal'
https://www.michaelstaines.ie/what-to-do-when-you-receive-a-summons