Empty Orange Halls??

[SammyG]

As for sammyg, he seems to want us to think he is tolerant but the mask slips when talking about Religion and interestingly enough his comments usually focus on the foibles of the Catholic Church, not that they dont give him lots of ammo these days.

Organised relegion is one thing that I have very little (if any) tolerance for. I just don't get why, otherwise sensible, people can choose to not only believe a load of things that are clearly nonsense, but believe them to the point where they're prepared to kill and/or die for them.

As far as particular churches I'd have the Free Ps, Shi ites and a few of those 'evangelical' (ie bigotted, homophobic and racist) churches a long way ahead of any of the main churches.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

As for sammyg, he seems to want us to think he is tolerant but the mask slips when talking about Religion and interestingly enough his comments usually focus on the foibles of the Catholic Church, not that they dont give him lots of ammo these days.

Organised relegion is one thing that I have very little (if any) tolerance for. I just don't get why, otherwise sensible, people can choose to not only believe a load of things that are clearly nonsense, but believe them to the point where they're prepared to kill and/or die for them.

As far as particular churches I'd have the Free Ps, Shi ites and a few of those 'evangelical' (ie bigotted, homophobic and racist) churches a long way ahead of any of the main churches.

Not quite sure where your coming from with that statement Sammy?

[SammyG]

As for sammyg, he seems to want us to think he is tolerant but the mask slips when talking about Religion and interestingly enough his comments usually focus on the foibles of the Catholic Church, not that they dont give him lots of ammo these days.

Organised relegion is one thing that I have very little (if any) tolerance for. I just don't get why, otherwise sensible, people can choose to not only believe a load of things that are clearly nonsense, but believe them to the point where they're prepared to kill and/or die for them.

As far as particular churches I'd have the Free Ps, Shi ites and a few of those 'evangelical' (ie bigotted, homophobic and racist) churches a long way ahead of any of the main churches.

Not quite sure where your coming from with that statement Sammy?

Stew said that I seemed to have a particular problem with the Catholic Church and I was just saying that there would be a long list of churches that I'd have a bigger problem with. The 'mainstream' churches (for want of a better phrase) are nowhere near as bad as some of the more extreme sects.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

As for sammyg, he seems to want us to think he is tolerant but the mask slips when talking about Religion and interestingly enough his comments usually focus on the foibles of the Catholic Church, not that they dont give him lots of ammo these days.

Organised relegion is one thing that I have very little (if any) tolerance for. I just don't get why, otherwise sensible, people can choose to not only believe a load of things that are clearly nonsense, but believe them to the point where they're prepared to kill and/or die for them.

As far as particular churches I'd have the Free Ps, Shi ites and a few of those 'evangelical' (ie bigotted, homophobic and racist) churches a long way ahead of any of the main churches.

Not quite sure where your coming from with that statement Sammy?

Stew said that I seemed to have a particular problem with the Catholic Church and I was just saying that there would be a long list of churches that I'd have a bigger problem with. The 'mainstream' churches (for want of a better phrase) are nowhere near as bad as some of the more extreme sects.

Understood.

Whilst I totally disagree with your views on religion (to which you are entitled) I would agree that there are some extremist religions out there all right, who do cause untold misery.

[stew]

As for sammyg, he seems to want us to think he is tolerant but the mask slips when talking about Religion and interestingly enough his comments usually focus on the foibles of the Catholic Church, not that they dont give him lots of ammo these days.

Organised relegion is one thing that I have very little (if any) tolerance for. I just don't get why, otherwise sensible, people can choose to not only believe a load of things that are clearly nonsense, but believe them to the point where they're prepared to kill and/or die for them.

As far as particular churches I'd have the Free Ps, Shi ites and a few of those 'evangelical' (ie bigotted, homophobic and racist) churches a long way ahead of any of the main churches.

sammy you arrogance is one again typical of the athiest stance, you cannot prove Religion is nonsence but you state Your opinion as fact,  you then play the allencompassing bigot card and from there move on to homophobia and racism.

let me put you straight once and for all. we as believers are to love the sinner and hate the sin, I myself have come a long way with homosexuality even in this past year or so, the fact is I have met homosexuals who are tremendous people and I have three that work on my staff and they are great, I do however believe homosexuality is wrong as this was handed down to us from God but that does not mean I should treat them badly or not promote them at work etc, to me we are all Gods children and who the hell am I to judge anyone? I am entitled to my opinion and these people know where I stand,they are respected in the workplace at all times as they should be, anyone that doesnt treat his fellow man well will, in the words of the lord be found wanting.

One last thing sammy, tolerance is not a sometime thing, you are either tolerant or you are not, you clearly are of the not variety given your earlier post.

[clarshack]

the whole religion thing is a load of bollox. sorry to say but when you go theres nothing else. feel sorry for those poor bastards who turn themselves into suicide bombers! they think their goin to something like 50 wives - get real!

[stew]

the whole religion thing is a load of bollox. sorry to say but when you go theres nothing else. feel sorry for those poor bastards who turn themselves into suicide bombers! they think their goin to something like 50 wives - get real!

prove it clarsuck!!!!!! give me more than your opinion.
as for the 50 wives thing, it is considerably less however they do believe there are virgins waiting for them after they get  both killed and rewarded for killing innocent people, now that is seriously fecked up.

Any man that wants more than one wife is a moron!!!!!

[SammyG]

sammy you arrogance is one again typical of the athiest stance, you cannot prove Religion is nonsence but you state Your opinion as fact,

Of course you can prove that relegion is nonsense. The world wasn't created in 7 days, all the animals in the world wouldn't fit on one boat (and even if they did half of them would eat the other half), the 'Jesus' story (virgin birth, miracles, etc) had been around in various guises (the main one being the Mithras legends) since about 100 BC but was only documented in the 'Gospels' between 70 and 120 AD (about 200 years later), dinosaurs weren't around at the same time as people etc etc etc

  you then play the allencompassing bigot card and from there move on to homophobia and racism.

All of the main churches (and a lot of the smaller ones) are deeply homophobic. They claim on one hand that we're all equal undre God and created in God's image but then claim that homosexuals (who presumably were also created by God) are an abomination. As far as racism, you only have to look at the actions of the various churches in the last few thousand years, right up to the present, were they are allowing 1000's to die in sub-Saharan Africa because they use their influence to block funding for AIDS projects. If a white, Western country had 25 or 30% rates of AIDS, you can be sure something would be done about it.

let me put you straight once and for all. we as believers are to love the sinner and hate the sin, I myself have come a long way with homosexuality even in this past year or so, the fact is I have met homosexuals who are tremendous people and I have three that work on my staff and they are great, I do however believe homosexuality is wrong as this was handed down to us from God but that does not mean I should treat them badly or not promote them at work etc, to me we are all Gods children and who the hell am I to judge anyone? I am entitled to my opinion and these people know where I stand,they are respected in the workplace at all times as they should be, anyone that doesnt treat his fellow man well will, in the words of the lord be found wanting.

See previous answer. Also as far as things being handed down by God and using them as an excuse for your bigottry, what about the following

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

These things were all 'laid down by God, do you strictly adhere to all of them or do you pick and choose?

One last thing sammy, tolerance is not a sometime thing, you are either tolerant or you are not, you clearly are of the not variety given your earlier post.

Of course tolerance has to apply in the situation, you shouldn't be tolerant of things that harm yourself or others.

[Solomon Kane]

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

Is he a professional footballer? Maybe the IFA have a point.

[stew]

sammy you arrogance is one again typical of the athiest stance, you cannot prove Religion is nonsence but you state Your opinion as fact,

Of course you can prove that relegion is nonsense. The world wasn't created in 7 days, all the animals in the world wouldn't fit on one boat (and even if they did half of them would eat the other half), the 'Jesus' story (virgin birth, miracles, etc) had been around in various guises (the main one being the Mithras legends) since about 100 BC but was only documented in the 'Gospels' between 70 and 120 AD (about 200 years later), dinosaurs weren't around at the same time as people etc etc etc

  you then play the allencompassing bigot card and from there move on to homophobia and racism.

All of the main churches (and a lot of the smaller ones) are deeply homophobic. They claim on one hand that we're all equal undre God and created in God's image but then claim that homosexuals (who presumably were also created by God) are an abomination. As far as racism, you only have to look at the actions of the various churches in the last few thousand years, right up to the present, were they are allowing 1000's to die in sub-Saharan Africa because they use their influence to block funding for AIDS projects. If a white, Western country had 25 or 30% rates of AIDS, you can be sure something would be done about it.

let me put you straight once and for all. we as believers are to love the sinner and hate the sin, I myself have come a long way with homosexuality even in this past year or so, the fact is I have met homosexuals who are tremendous people and I have three that work on my staff and they are great, I do however believe homosexuality is wrong as this was handed down to us from God but that does not mean I should treat them badly or not promote them at work etc, to me we are all Gods children and who the hell am I to judge anyone? I am entitled to my opinion and these people know where I stand,they are respected in the workplace at all times as they should be, anyone that doesnt treat his fellow man well will, in the words of the lord be found wanting.

See previous answer. Also as far as things being handed down by God and using them as an excuse for your bigottry, what about the following

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

These things were all 'laid down by God, do you strictly adhere to all of them or do you pick and choose?

One last thing sammy, tolerance is not a sometime thing, you are either tolerant or you are not, you clearly are of the not variety given your earlier post.

Of course tolerance has to apply in the situation, you shouldn't be tolerant of things that harm yourself or others.

Wrong again Samuel, the Bible states that to God a thousand years is like a day, which means to me that God created everything on a timescale of his choosing and not that of mans. As for you dinosaurs comment, you must know nifan well, he spouts the same rhetoric and my answer is again that we do not have all the answers nor all the why's but we do have faith and that is what matters to believers. Come talk to me when science can prove without a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist.

Sammy are you are saying that God could not be born of a virgin birth? so he could create everything that ever existed but hasnt got it in him to be born to a virgin, look around sammy, virgins nowadays can have babies if the science is right.

[nifan]

As for you dinosaurs comment, you must know nifan wel, he spouts the same rhetoric and my answer is again that we do not have all the answers nor all the why's but we do have faith and that is what matters to believers. Come talk to me when science can prove without a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist.

As far as me and sammy go i dont believe ive ever met him but i cant be sure.

It is hardly rhetoric - its one of many questions that those with faith cant answer. The problem I personally have with religion is, as voltaire said, blind faith is no faith.

There is no proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that god does not exist - hence my agnosticism. However there is an abundance of things that can be held against the bible which cause major concerns. My problem with aspects of Christianity come partly from the point you raise above - it seems to be pick and mix when we take the bible literally or metaphorically.

I find it hard to understand why someone would have greater belief in the bible than science (anyone with a basic understanding of science that is)

[stew]

 
I find it hard to understand why someone would have greater belief in the bible than science (anyone with a basic understanding of science that is)


[/quote]

You quote voltaire, a man like any other to make your point, hardly conclusive evidence nifan.

Why should man have faith in science, science is wrong every day, science is of man and as such is flawed and man resorts to theory and  questionable math to determine what he  does not understand, again flawed.

[nifan]

In my opinion the bible is of man too.

Voltaires point holds though - what is blind faith? You believe as you have been instructed, there are many people of various religions each with an equally strong faith.

Also, the fact that science cannot prove all is not proof that christianity is correct. Science isnt infallible, and doesnt claim to be so. It provides models for describing the physical world. It is based on observable, reproducable experimentation and is open to argument and counter argument.

[heganboy]

This is a thread that I have been watching for a while. Why do some people feel the urge to push their views on religion on others?
I think its written in the new testament that Jesus said in summary, love your neighbour as yourself. Love them enough not to push your value system on them.
How can you find proof one way or the other?
It needs to be accepted that our views on God/ creation/ virgin births/ pieces of bread/ condoms are our views and not to be ridiculed. If they are not inciting hatred & violence then what's wrong with believing the earth is a turtle egg or 42 is the answer to the big question?
Live and let live, this nonsense is getting very old very quickly

[stew]

This is a thread that I have been watching for a while. Why do some people feel the urge to push their views on religion on others?
I think its written in the new testament that Jesus said in summary, love your neighbour as yourself. Love them enough not to push your value system on them.
How can you find proof one way or the other?
It needs to be accepted that our views on God/ creation/ virgin births/ pieces of bread/ condoms are our views and not to be ridiculed. If they are not inciting hatred & violence then what's wrong with believing the earth is a turtle egg or 42 is the answer to the big question?
Live and let live, this nonsense is getting very old very quickly

Who pushed their views on others heganboy??

This is a discussion board and there will be differing opinions on it, at least i hope there will.