Memories of Hillsborough

[Dire Ear]

Let's be quite clear Tony.  I didn't "debate" anything with you. I merely offered you the chance to educate yourself with the facts of the jury's findings.

I never asked, nor wanted your respect.

You stated that the victims were innocent, as they were at the front and crushed to death.

The implication being that it was those who arrived late who had, in your words, behaved irresponsibly, and were responsible for the tragedy.

For your information Tony, 30 of the 96 victims were still outside the ground at 2.52pm, before being shepherded to their death.

Your comments, like so many that you've made before on here, lack a basis in fact. They have also displayed an almost inhumane lack of empathy to your fellow man.  As I said previously, I pity you.

+1.

Tony I have also been about this board for longer than I care to remember. 
You recent comments on this are a disgrace. End off.
They should not be tolerated.

Correct

[Two Hands FFS]

You're in good company with David Vance Tony, with your cretinous views.

And McKenzie..the three of them would be well suited together

[imtommygunn]

It's ill formed opinions on things which have ruined peoples lives again.  Facts are irrelevant to the opinion held.

I don't know if it's a wind up or not but it's disgusting.

[muppet]

Rubbish.But the jury at the Birmingham Six trial found all the men guilty.Did you agree with that decision?

If I was allowed to falsify evidence as I wished, I'd get a jury to find you guilty of anything, even decency.

[winghalfun]

The plain and simple fact is that the Police were placed under intolerable pressure and made wrong calls that sadly proved fatal.

THEY WERE NOT PLACED UNDER INTOLERABLE PRESSURE TONY!!!!!!!!

In one of his columns in the Daily Mirror, Brian Reade who was at the match wrote about that day.

It was the second year running we'd been drawn to play Nottingham Forest in an FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough and those of us in that red procession which snaked along the M62 to Sheffield had few worries about reaching Wembley again.

But different kinds of doubts were creeping in.

Major roadworks, an accident and persistent police checks were causing delays, and fears spread that the kick-off might be missed.

On reaching Hillsborough those fears were realised.

At 2.30pm, Leppings Lane, the entry point for all Liverpool fans, was human gridlock.

No police or stewards were on hand to filter the thousands of fans into queues.

The only visible authority was half-a dozen forlorn figures in blue on horseback and a few on the ground, screaming at the swaying crowd to back away from the turnstiles.

For the second year running, and despite protests, Liverpool were given 4,000 fewer tickets and the smaller end of the ground - despite having a much bigger following than Forest.

Geographically it made the police job of getting fans in and out of Sheffield easier.

Ensuring safety is how they termed it. It meant all 24,000 Liverpool ticket-holders, whether in Leppings Lane or the West and North stands, had to pass through 23 turnstiles, most so old they constantly jammed.

At the much newer Kop end Forest had 60 modern turnstiles. As the ground erupted with expectation at the entry of the teams, outside in Leppings Lane there was pandemonium.

Fans, angry at the lack of movement and organisation, berated the police, some of whom were screaming into their radios for assistance.

Many of us moved away from the turnstiles and looked on from a distance, convinced the kick-off would be put back while they sorted out the chaos.

Instead, at 2.52pm a huge blue exit gate opened and 2,000 of us poured in. At the back of the Leppings Lane terrace, stewards who were supposed to be dispersing the supporters evenly into five pens had vanished.

Consequently the bulk of fans ignored the lesser populated pens at the sides of the terrace and headed into the two central ones behind the goal, already over-crowded.

Those at the front became packed tighter and tighter.

The game was now under way and fans at the back, ignorant of the crush, concentrated on trying to get a view of the pitch.

They weren't to know that ahead of them on this shallow-sloping concrete there was panic, fear, hyper-ventilating, fainting, hair drenched in sweat and vomit matting on the metal fencing.

Thousands of disgruntled fans were still outside as the match was about to get underway.  This was not of their making.

They hadn't all come out of the nearest pubs or left it to the last minute to get parked.

Even in this column Reade acknowledges that the fans were angry and yes berated the police for their inaction. BUT THE POLICE WERE NOT PLACED UNDER INTOLERABLE PRESSURE.

Outside the ground, the fans were relatively safe.  The may have missed some of the match but at least they were safe.  No one was going to be crushed to death.

The police, the jury, even the Prime minister and for Christ sake even the man who gave the orders that day now admit and acknowledge that the actions were not only negligent but criminal.

Numerous quotes, articles, videos, case notes have now been produced to back up the jury's criminal verdict but you, you pugnacious person have not posted one shred of evidence to back up your warped, narrow mindset.

Post something up Tony to back up your claims or retract.

[seafoid]

There is no point in asking him to retract. The church rape thing was exactly the same.

[theskull1]

People expecting TF to see the errors of his ways and apologize - WTF!!

[T Fearon]

Great to see so many Irish men with 100% faith in the British judicial system. For what it's worth my position has changed.Up until recently I would have apportioned 100% of the blame on so called Liverpool supporters for this tragedy.It's not like they didn't have form in this regard, a mere four years on from Heysel. But there now seems to be substantial and irrefutable evidence that Police errors,and deficiencies in the stadium itself, were the major factor.

Having said that,I still do not believe that some Liverpool supporters are entirely blameless.If people behave and follow Police instructions, then the Police's job is made relatively easy.If not,mistakes will inevitably occur, as will knee jerk reactions etc, with, as in this case,occasionally catostrophic results.

The greatest legacy of the Hillsborough Victims is the state of the art current stadia and health and safety regulations.I don't intend to comment further on this matter.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

I don't intend to comment further on this matter.

Good. f**k off then

[muppet]

I don't intend to comment further on this matter.

Good. f**k off then

[J70]

Great to see so many Irish men with 100% faith in the British judicial system. For what it's worth my position has changed.Up until recently I would have apportioned 100% of the blame on so called Liverpool supporters for this tragedy.It's not like they didn't have form in this regard, a mere four years on from Heysel. But there now seems to be substantial and irrefutable evidence that Police errors,and deficiencies in the stadium itself, were the major factor.

Heysel has NOTHING to do with what happened at Hillsborough.

One entailed agro between fans escalating into Liverpool fans running at the Juve fans, backing them into a crush against a wall, and nearly 40 fans dying when the wall collapsed. The state of the stadium and organization and so on contributed, but the main blame lay with the Liverpool fans who chased the Juve fans. That was not the case at all at Hillsborough which was completely a result of incompetence and cynicism on the part of the authorities.

Further on Heysel, Liverpool fans were hardly unique in their actions that day - English fans of all clubs AND the national team were notorious around Europe in the 70s and early 80s. People always throw the "murderers" comment around and blame Liverpool for the European ban in the late 80s, but the fact is that something like Heysel was going to happen at some point, and the reason for the blanket ban was the Heysel was merely the tragic endpoint for what had been an ongoing and escalating cycle of violent behaviour by English football fans. Man United were kicked out the Cup Winners Cup in the 70s for hooliganism. Leeds and Rangers got turfed out of European competition back then too. Christ, a kid even died when a hooligan-caused crush caused a wall collapse at a Birmingham-Leeds match a few weeks before Heysel.

[Nigel White]

In fairness as I understand these people were hooligans who used football matches as a means of satisfying their thirst for violence rather than football fans

[T Fearon]

http://www.thelocal.es/20160428/drunk-liverpool-fans-booted-off-ryanair-flight-to-alicante.

More lies from the authorities?

[Tony Baloney]

http://www.thelocal.es/20160428/drunk-liverpool-fans-booted-off-ryanair-flight-to-alicante.

More lies from the authorities?

Quote from the article linked...

"It was initially reported the pair were Liverpool fans on their way to Thursday night's Europa League semi-final first leg against Villarreal.

But passengers on board the plane said the men were in fact members of a stag party...".

Class Report: Must try harder.

[Minder]

http://www.thelocal.es/20160428/drunk-liverpool-fans-booted-off-ryanair-flight-to-alicante.

More lies from the authorities?

D- Tony