Drugs in UK sports....

[INDIANA]

Again, what does anyone "know" here? Very strong word to use. I'm all for transparency and pursuit of dopers but claiming to "know" something, for the majority of people on this board, is utter bullshit.

People like to see doping as black and white, when in reality it's not. Gatlin (who I despise) never gets mentioned now add anything other than "twice convicted doper Justin Gatlin", while never acknowledging that he was reinstated early from the first ban by the IAAF after they accepted the positive had come from medication he'd been taking since he was a kid. Contador's positive test was by the absolute tiniest of margins.

Now that's bullshit. Go onto Instagram and look at professional athletes- pre season posting huge muscle gain with no corresponding entry in body fat. I don't need to know their diet or training programmes to know they are on PED's.

Not physiologically possible.

OK, so tell me what you "know" about Usain Bolt from his Instagram pictures

He's not stupid enough to post his gains like other athletes. You don't need to go beyond these shores either.

He is 6ft 5 inches tall. Unprecedented in sprinting terms. But he's Jamacian, he trains with iffy doctors and has to be under suspicion

[gallsman]

So basically, you "know" nothing, but have your suspicions, yes?

[INDIANA]

So basically, you "know" nothing, but have your suspicions, yes?

About Bolt- I don't. But nobody does because he's either the greatest athlete of all time or the biggest fraud. He doesn't have any published blood values, testosterone levels, body fat or otherwise publicised to make an evaluation.

On the others it's obvious. And as I said you don't have to leave these shores.

[AZOffaly]

Some of the Rugby lads have to be on something. The way they come back from injuries, and the changes in body shape over the last 5 years just can't be right.

[INDIANA]

Some of the Rugby lads have to be on something. The way they come back from injuries, and the changes in body shape over the last 5 years just can't be right.

Absolutely rampant and has been for 10 years or so. I'm continually staggered by their gains with little body fat increases. Steroids are rampant in amateur Welsh Rugby and NZ and they mean to tell us the pro game is clean .

Extensive use over here too- if steroids are being used in every gym in Ireland it's completely illogical to say all field sports including GAA are somehow clean.

[macdanger2]

It's hard to believe that any of the top athletes / cyclists / weightlifters / tennis players are clean.

It's also hard to believe that it's seemingly so rare in rugby or soccer when there's obvious benefits to it (and plenty of cash to be earned) in these sports

Even in GAA, I'd be surprised if there aren't some guys juicing although the lack of cash means they're going to be less sophisticated than in sports where there's an opportunity to earn big

[JimStynes]

He hasn't failed a test and he probably won't or it will be covered up. I can't see him being caught at this stage. Armstrong nearly got away with it only he came back into the sport after four years out.

Everyone has their own opinions on it. I personally don't believe in athletics at all now. Marion Jones and numerous others never failed a test, the bio passport is a joke, the testers are two or three steps behind the dopers, so not failing a test means nothing.

Bolt is destroying records set by dopers, he has been associated with well known doping coaches, all of his main Jamaican training partners have been caught, Jamaican testing is farcical at best, he didn't specialise in 100m and then destroys the record and so on.

Everyone will have their own opinion. My opinion is he a fraud and a doper.

Interesting podcast from Victor Conte if you have a an hour or two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzhD2QJ8B0

You can't fool the blood biological passport Jim. Not a hope the likes of Michael Ashenden won't be able to tell a doper from it.

If he's not clean people are covering it up. And the world will find out.

A lab technician who gets fired, an IAAF offiicial gets pissed off etc. It will come out. Rest assured . Armstrong would not have gotten away with it either. He was a dead man walking the day Tyler Hamilton wrote his book because he was the one guy Armstrong couldn't say wasn't good enough or was a liar like he discredited all the others.

They're currently beating the bio passport in cycling.

[AZOffaly]

Some of the Rugby lads have to be on something. The way they come back from injuries, and the changes in body shape over the last 5 years just can't be right.

Absolutely rampant and has been for 10 years or so. I'm continually staggered by their gains with little body fat increases. Steroids are rampant in amateur Welsh Rugby and NZ and they mean to tell us the pro game is clean .

Extensive use over here too- if steroids are being used in every gym in Ireland it's completely illogical to say all field sports including GAA are somehow clean.

If we are testing as per sports council guidelines, how likely is it that a lot of GAA lads are juicing though? I'm involved in the GAA and I certainly haven't seen it, other than lads who have no need of one using an inhaler before a game.

My understanding is that to stay 'ahead' of the testers, you need to be fairly sophisticated and organised, and I'm not sure that level of sophistry is in an amateur game.

[INDIANA]

He hasn't failed a test and he probably won't or it will be covered up. I can't see him being caught at this stage. Armstrong nearly got away with it only he came back into the sport after four years out.

Everyone has their own opinions on it. I personally don't believe in athletics at all now. Marion Jones and numerous others never failed a test, the bio passport is a joke, the testers are two or three steps behind the dopers, so not failing a test means nothing.

Bolt is destroying records set by dopers, he has been associated with well known doping coaches, all of his main Jamaican training partners have been caught, Jamaican testing is farcical at best, he didn't specialise in 100m and then destroys the record and so on.

Everyone will have their own opinion. My opinion is he a fraud and a doper.

Interesting podcast from Victor Conte if you have a an hour or two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzhD2QJ8B0

You can't fool the blood biological passport Jim. Not a hope the likes of Michael Ashenden won't be able to tell a doper from it.

If he's not clean people are covering it up. And the world will find out.

A lab technician who gets fired, an IAAF offiicial gets pissed off etc. It will come out. Rest assured . Armstrong would not have gotten away with it either. He was a dead man walking the day Tyler Hamilton wrote his book because he was the one guy Armstrong couldn't say wasn't good enough or was a liar like he discredited all the others.

They're currently beating the bio passport in cycling.

They aren't Jim. They are covering it up again there is a difference. Cycling is done and dusted as a sport. They should remove all drug protocols and let athletes take what they like. You can't beat it- it's not possible.

I don't believe the SKY Team either Jim. Same speeds as Armstrong and Co going up the same climbs- faster in some cases

[thewingedlady]

Some of the Rugby lads have to be on something. The way they come back from injuries, and the changes in body shape over the last 5 years just can't be right.

Absolutely rampant and has been for 10 years or so. I'm continually staggered by their gains with little body fat increases. Steroids are rampant in amateur Welsh Rugby and NZ and they mean to tell us the pro game is clean .

Extensive use over here too- if steroids are being used in every gym in Ireland it's completely illogical to say all field sports including GAA are somehow clean.

If we are testing as per sports council guidelines, how likely is it that a lot of GAA lads are juicing though? I'm involved in the GAA and I certainly haven't seen it, other than lads who have no need of one using an inhaler before a game.

My understanding is that to stay 'ahead' of the testers, you need to be fairly sophisticated and organised, and I'm not sure that level of sophistry is in an amateur game.

In the GAA you have an unbelievably low chance of being tested, never mind being caught. There was a discussion about this on the radio recently - Oisin McConville said he'd been tested once in his whole career. JJ Delaney said he had never been tested.

[INDIANA]

Some of the Rugby lads have to be on something. The way they come back from injuries, and the changes in body shape over the last 5 years just can't be right.

Absolutely rampant and has been for 10 years or so. I'm continually staggered by their gains with little body fat increases. Steroids are rampant in amateur Welsh Rugby and NZ and they mean to tell us the pro game is clean .

Extensive use over here too- if steroids are being used in every gym in Ireland it's completely illogical to say all field sports including GAA are somehow clean.

If we are testing as per sports council guidelines, how likely is it that a lot of GAA lads are juicing though? I'm involved in the GAA and I certainly haven't seen it, other than lads who have no need of one using an inhaler before a game.

My understanding is that to stay 'ahead' of the testers, you need to be fairly sophisticated and organised, and I'm not sure that level of sophistry is in an amateur game.

Putting silly images of yourself on social media don't help much either! Physique gains in some cases in GAA are not natural. Smaller chance of being tested in the GAA too.

You look at the torture of bodybuilding and the amount of chemicals they take to get a certain shape to their physique. You then see guys from field sports with similar physiques and they want to tell us one is chemically induced and the other is natural. It's absurd. It's not rampant in GAA but it definitely goes on. I'd have my suspicions about a couple of players in particular.

You'd be surprised how up to date some guys are on sports science considering the volume of material out there and the

[muppet]

I'm not relying on the things the coach did for anything. You're trying to claim that the coach had the fastest man ever to grace this planet but somehow he didn't realise it or somehow Bolt never ran a 100m ever before 2007. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Of course he was fast when he was young, no one can deny that but there's a huge difference between below 20 seconds, even 19.75 and 19.19. There's improving your time and then there's 19.19.

The times don't add up, he's in a country where the testing is virtually non existent, he's hired dodgy people, the majority of runners under 9.90 have been doped up and yet you believe 9.58?? It's laughable.

This is your argument? 

The coach famously wanted him to run the 400m. Bolt wanted to run the 100m. His debut time at 100m was 10.03. But at 17 years of age he was clocked at 45 seconds for the 400m in a relay. That time would put him half a second off the medals in London 2012, at 17!

http://www.news.com.au/sport/video-teenage-usain-bolts-frightening-400m-speed/story-fndpu6dv-1226450207957

The rest of your argument is you putting words in my mouth, because you have nothing else.

I don't know if Bolt is doping or not. You have to pretend I am claiming that he is not doping, to justify yourself.

Your claim that his times don't add up are idiotic. He was a sprinting phenomenon as a scrawny teenager. As I have shown.

No, my argument is his times improved on an impossible scale. You're ignoring that and just saying he was fast as a junior so he'd be fast as a senior. He was always fast but he had illegal help to make him out of this world fast.

Well do you think he's doping? Clear the issue up.

A fast junior doesn't equal a 19.19 or 9.58 senior.

Do you have proof of this?

Yeah, I'm his doctor.

But you said 'he had illegal help to make him out of this world fast'.

Do you have proof of this?

[JimStynes]

Indiana:
On the phone so can't post as easily here. There have been a few programmes and experiments recently that have beaten the bio passport. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-television-report-shows-how-micro-dosing-can-beat-uci-biological-passport/
You obviously know a lot about the sports science end of things. I just have an interest in this topic and would regularly read forums about it. The talk is the bio passport is nearly letting cyclists micro dose all they want now and giving them a free run at it. There was a programme on TV a while back as well showing a fella passing all the doping tests while micro dosing. I'm not sure if I have understood the bio passport correctly though so feel free to correct me.

[INDIANA]

Indiana:
On the phone so can't post as easily here. There have been a few programmes and experiments recently that have beaten the bio passport. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-television-report-shows-how-micro-dosing-can-beat-uci-biological-passport/
You obviously know a lot about the sports science end of things. I just have an interest in this topic and would regularly read forums about it. The talk is the bio passport is nearly letting cyclists micro dose all they want now and giving them a free run at it. There was a programme on TV a while back as well showing a fella passing all the doping tests while micro dosing. I'm not sure if I have understood the bio passport correctly though so feel free to correct me.

I hadn't seen that Jim- thanks for that. Disturbing is not the word for it. Will make for some good discussions at lunch-time tomorrow with the rest of the staff.

Essentially shows that micro-dosing with a cocktail of drugs can beat the biological passport. Micro-dosing simply with EPO can be picked up now since about 2010- it's how Contador and a few other cyclists were caught. Michael Ashenden devised the test for that.

Micro-dosing is injecting straight into the vein on a daily basis in small doses . Previously they did higher doses with fewer injections into other areas of the body

[muppet]

Indiana:
On the phone so can't post as easily here. There have been a few programmes and experiments recently that have beaten the bio passport. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-television-report-shows-how-micro-dosing-can-beat-uci-biological-passport/
You obviously know a lot about the sports science end of things. I just have an interest in this topic and would regularly read forums about it. The talk is the bio passport is nearly letting cyclists micro dose all they want now and giving them a free run at it. There was a programme on TV a while back as well showing a fella passing all the doping tests while micro dosing. I'm not sure if I have understood the bio passport correctly though so feel free to correct me.

I hadn't seen that Jim- thanks for that. Disturbing is not the word for it. Will make for some good discussions at lunch-time tomorrow with the rest of the staff.

Essentially shows that micro-dosing with a cocktail of drugs can beat the biological passport. Micro-dosing simply with EPO can be picked up now since about 2010- it's how Contador and a few other cyclists were caught. Michael Ashenden devised the test for that.

Micro-dosing is injecting straight into the vein on a daily basis in small doses . Previously they did higher doses with fewer injections into other areas of the body

Interesting alright.

This would require a lot of planning and logistics to have the stuff available every day in, for example, the Tour De France. It would require vigilance and discipline to have no one caught carrying the stuff and of course no trace left afterwards, so disposal would be very important. Staying in a different hotel every night might be perceived as very risky considering how often we accidentally leave things behind us.

Camper vans might be handy in that case.