A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[AustinPowers]

Punts in your pocket and healthcare will be the 2 big ticket items when it comes to the crunch, the PUL community have one last chance now to treat their neighbours with equality such that middle of the road nationalists vote to preserve the Union. The increase in mixed marriages points to better relations than before but in the end supremacy is the only show in town for the OO and OWC brigade, their shite for brain approach will sabotage any chance of the UK remaining intact, theres a very obvious direction of travel, over time this will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I honestly believe quite a good number of OO/OWC would even grudgingly accept the inevitable as long as Gerry Adams never lives to see it. If unification happens after Adams is gone, they might accept it more easily as history rather than a defeat.

They've had  over 100 years to do that , and failed.   They'll hardly start now.  As you say,  middle of the road nationalists are  the key to  preserving their precious union.  But there are no leaders within unionism  with  any brains  to realise this.

[LC]

Punts in your pocket and healthcare will be the 2 big ticket items when it comes to the crunch, the PUL community have one last chance now to treat their neighbours with equality such that middle of the road nationalists vote to preserve the Union. The increase in mixed marriages points to better relations than before but in the end supremacy is the only show in town for the OO and OWC brigade, their shite for brain approach will sabotage any chance of the UK remaining intact, theres a very obvious direction of travel, over time this will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I honestly believe quite a good number of OO/OWC would even grudgingly accept the inevitable as long as Gerry Adams never lives to see it. If unification happens after Adams is gone, they might accept it more easily as history rather than a defeat.

They've had  over 100 years to do that , and failed.  They'll hardly start now.  As you say,  middle of the road nationalists are  the key to  preserving their precious union.  But there are no leaders within unionism  with  any brains  to realise this.

I think you are being generous by stating that the lack of brains applies only to their leaders.

[Rossfan]

There will be no poll on Irish unity before 2030, the Taoiseach has said, adding that more work is needed to unite people on the island before partition is ended.

Sinn Féin has been pushing the Government in recent weeks to prepare for a border poll within the next five years.

The issue of Irish unity will also feature in the forthcoming presidential election but, speaking in New York, Micheál Martin told the Irish Examiner it will not happen in the lifetime of this administration.


Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, a border poll should be called by the incumbent Northern Ireland secretary when he or she believes there is evidence public opinion in the region has shifted in favour of constitutional change.


Successive British governments have consistently declined to specify publicly what criteria will be applied when measuring public sentiment on the issue.

Mr Martin said more work is needed to unite people on the island of Ireland before partition is ended.

He said he believes Sinn Féin has followed polling to decide the issue's importance.

"I've watched Sinn Féin over the last decade blow hot and cold on the border poll," he said.

They kind of invented it after Brexit.

"I said at the time they were putting petrol on the fire. We had to deal with Brexit first and its implications for Ireland.

"And then, when assembly elections came along, they downgraded the border poll because they did their own opinion polls and focus groups, and they said it's not travelling.

"If you notice during the assembly elections, the border poll receded in language and recedes in different electoral cycles and then, once elections are over, they're back on the border poll.

"Sinn Féin condemned everybody, criticised us for not having a blueprint.

Where's Sinn Féin's blueprint? Why is Sinn Féin always saying somebody else has to write the blueprint?

Sinn Féin had made plans for a united Ireland part of its 2024 general election campaign which would see MPs from the North given speaking rights in the Oireachtas.

The party says it would "commence planning for and actively working toward the holding, by the end of this decade, of the referendums on Irish reunification provided for in the Good Friday Agreement".

Unity 'in the Wolfe Tone framework'

However, Mr Martin said he does not foresee a poll happening under his government or shortly after.

"I don't like the word 'border poll' in itself," said the Taoiseach. "I believe it makes logical sense that we would have unity in the country, and that we would unite the people of Ireland.

But it's in the Wolfe Tone framework of uniting 'Protestant, Catholic, and dissenter'.

"But you can add to that the new Irish — Northern Ireland, demographically, is changing as we

[Armagh18]

Meehole knows he'll not get back in power when the border poll goes through that's all is wrong with him...

[RedHand88]

Meehole knows he'll not get back in power when the border poll goes through that's all is wrong with him...

It isn't going to go through any time soon unfortunately.

[Armagh18]

Meehole knows he'll not get back in power when the border poll goes through that's all is wrong with him...

It isn't going to go through any time soon unfortunately.

Not today or tomorrow. But it will come

[Rossfan]

Mícheál Martin will be out to grass or under it by then..2040??

[Snapchap]

So Micheal Martin, the man leading "The Republican Party" who when asked if he would consider himself a persuader for Irish Unity refused to say yes, is still busily arguing in favour of a defacto unionist veto to prevent there ever being a border poll by insisting that there has to be reconciliation before such any such poll could be called.

[trileacman]

So Micheal Martin, the man leading "The Republican Party" who when asked if he would consider himself a persuader for Irish Unity refused to say yes, is still busily arguing in favour of a defacto unionist veto to prevent there ever being a border poll by insisting that there has to be reconciliation before such any such poll could be called.

What's the other alternative? The GFA says that a border poll can only be enacted by the Sectary of State, the British representative in NI. What's any Taisoeach going to do that going to make the Brits concede to having a border poll?

[armaghniac]

So Micheal Martin, the man leading "The Republican Party" who when asked if he would consider himself a persuader for Irish Unity refused to say yes, is still busily arguing in favour of a defacto unionist veto to prevent there ever being a border poll by insisting that there has to be reconciliation before such any such poll could be called.

What's the other alternative? The GFA says that a border poll can only be enacted by the Sectary of State, the British representative in NI. What's any Taisoeach going to do that going to make the Brits concede to having a border poll?

Saying that there can't be a poll until 2030 on the basis that there is work to be done is fine, but when is the work getting underway? A well formed plan has a role in bringing forward the poll date.

[Snapchap]

So Micheal Martin, the man leading "The Republican Party" who when asked if he would consider himself a persuader for Irish Unity refused to say yes, is still busily arguing in favour of a defacto unionist veto to prevent there ever being a border poll by insisting that there has to be reconciliation before such any such poll could be called.

What's the other alternative? The GFA says that a border poll can only be enacted by the Sectary of State, the British representative in NI. What's any Taisoeach going to do that going to make the Brits concede to having a border poll?

What's the alternative to effectively saying unionism should have a veto over a border poll? Is that a serious question?

Ok. The alternative is not arguing that unionism should effectively have a veto over a border poll.

I dont believe I said the Taoiseach could "make the British security of state concede to a border poll". My point is that nobody who wants to pretend to lead an Irish republican party should be effectively lobbying the British Givernemnt to refuse one until a deliberately unattainable precondition is met first.

[Armagh18]

So Micheal Martin, the man leading "The Republican Party" who when asked if he would consider himself a persuader for Irish Unity refused to say yes, is still busily arguing in favour of a defacto unionist veto to prevent there ever being a border poll by insisting that there has to be reconciliation before such any such poll could be called.

What's the other alternative? The GFA says that a border poll can only be enacted by the Sectary of State, the British representative in NI. What's any Taisoeach going to do that going to make the Brits concede to having a border poll?

He could at least say he wants a border poll, that a major objective of him and his party is a United Ireland and that they want to actively plan and work towards this. But he'll never do that because the FFG party would be finished.

[armaghniac]

He could at least say he wants a border poll, that a major objective of him and his party is a United Ireland and that they want to actively plan and work towards this. But he'll never do that because the FFG party would be finished.

Why would it be finished?

[Rossfan]

Taoiseach hits nail on head --

Sinn Féin condemned everybody, criticised us for not having a blueprint.

Where's Sinn Féin's blueprint? Why is Sinn Féin always saying somebody else has to write the blueprint?

[Snapchap]

Taoiseach hits nail on head --

Sinn Féin condemned everybody, criticised us for not having a blueprint.

Where's Sinn Féin's blueprint? Why is Sinn Féin always saying somebody else has to write the blueprint?

I'd love to see SF produce a blueprint, but the fact remains that they've produced a lot more papers on the topic than the Taoiseach's party ever has. And his is a party which has actually been in government and as such, is/has been in a much more influential position to produce any sort of papers/blueprints, or to establish a citizens assembly, or a ministerial position etc etc? I'd have thought that a key part of a government's job is long term planning/preparing for the future. Given that most observers now accept that a border poll will happen in the relatively short term future, is it not a utterly shocking dereliction of duty for the government of the day to refuse to make any sort of preparations?

By the way, any comments on:

a. The Taoiseach's refusal to state if he is even a persuader in favour of Irish unity
b. The Taoiseach's repeated arguments in favour of an effective unionist veto over any border poll from ever taking place