The US policing crisis thread

[armaghniac]

people cant have it both ways.

If you are against gun control and all the social misery it entails then you must accept that until you eliminate all guns then there will be some police officer somehere staring down the face of a gun and contemplating the immediate extinction of his existence.

it is very real. No second chances.

Well then do like Canada, things seem to work there.

[periere]

That doesn't address the question. We are talking about the US.

If I was a cop going to work everyday I would be in fear of my life. It only takes a millisecond for a
gun to kill. You could be dead before you even realize the person is armed.

Surely gun control advocates can  see the  dilemma that police face ?

Solve the gun control problem and then you can judge police in the US.

[heganboy]

The dogs in the street know who's responsible.....but the no snitching culture makes it almost impossible to bring prosecutions.

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

Ah- the dogs in the street- always good for a couple of rounds of bullshit. lets ask the FBI

stats for 2013-
3005 murders white people- race of offender in 2509 cases- white...

2491 murders of black people- race of offender in 2245 case- black...

I think what needs to be addressed is male on anyone murder. 3976 men murdered, 3505 male offenders, 1679 women murdered, 1515 male offenders. i think we should start there...

Dogs in the street, those damn dogs, make it up as you go along apparently.


https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

You could be dead before you even realize the person is armed.

I don't even know where to start on this one. I could also wake up dead some morning

[whitey]

The dogs in the street know who's responsible.....but the no snitching culture makes it almost impossible to bring prosecutions.

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

Ah- the dogs in the street- always good for a couple of rounds of bullshit. lets ask the FBI

stats for 2013-
3005 murders white people- race of offender in 2509 cases- white...

2491 murders of black people- race of offender in 2245 case- black...

I think what needs to be addressed is male on anyone murder. 3976 men murdered, 3505 male offenders, 1679 women murdered, 1515 male offenders. i think we should start there...

Dogs in the street, those damn dogs, make it up as you go along apparently.


https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

You could be dead before you even realize the person is armed.

I don't even know where to start on this one. I could also wake up dead some Morningstar

LOL-The worst neighborhoods in Chicago have an 85 per 100000 murder rate-these rates are almost impossible to comprehend.

Keep making excuses for them

(This just came across my Facebook feed-scary stuff

http://abcnews.go.com/US/chilling-details-revealed-bond-hearing-suspect-tyshawn-lees/story?id=35454416 )

[muppet]

You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

Here's the breakdown by neighborhood of the murder rate in Chicago....I'm sure those living in the worst neighborhoods wouldn't regard a murder rate of 85 per 100,000 residents as "right wing BS talking points". They are being terrorized by their own people day in and day out

If we got rid of every single bad apple out of every police dept in the entire country, my guess is that these rates would continue unchecked

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-In-Chicago-186719391.html

Why is the latter being used to cover the former?

Neither are acceptable. Both need to be dealt with.

They're intertwined......a civilian police force is expected to police neighborhoods that are virtual war zones.

That is simply blaming the black communities for cops shooting unarmed black people dead. Because it is a 'virtual war zone'. Even in non-virtual war zones there are rules of engagement.

Thats a very broad statement and not at all representative of what I said

Regular black people trying to live their lives and raise their families are being terrorized by their own people.  If we eliminated every unjustified police shooting it would be a rounding error compared to what their own own people are doing to them

This has nothing to do with black on black crime. You say the issues are intertwined, but lay all of the blame on the community, and none of the blame on the trigger happy cops. Defending the small, but high proflie, wrongful killings by the cops, sends a message that lives in that community are valued less than elsewhere. If trained and presumably educated and upstanding citizens (otherwise the recruitment process is the problem) think that, what hope is there for the hoodlums to value anyone's life any higher?

If you don't hold the cops to a high standard, then don't expect those being policed by them to have high standards either.

[whitey]

Where am I laying ALL of the blame ON the Black community?

In fact Spike Lee has had something to say on the matter.....

http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2015/11/16/spike-lee-s-comments-on-black-lives-matter-might-piss-you-off1.html


"We cannot be out there" protesting police violence "and then when it comes to young brothers killing themselves, then mum's the word. No one's saying nothing? It's got to be both ends," Lee said, adding that he's "all for Black Lives Matter," but "we as a people can't be blind" to Black-on-Black crime

[muppet]

Where am I laying ALL of the blame ON the Black community?

In fact Spike Lee has had something to say on the matter.....

http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2015/11/16/spike-lee-s-comments-on-black-lives-matter-might-piss-you-off1.html


"We cannot be out there" protesting police violence "and then when it comes to young brothers killing themselves, then mum's the word. No one's saying nothing? It's got to be both ends," Lee said, adding that he's "all for Black Lives Matter," but "we as a people can't be blind" to Black-on-Black crime

Spike Lee is right.

But he isn't using black on black violence as an excuse for the cops behaviour. 'It has got to be both ends' I interpret as seeing two problem, both needing sovling. You appear to use one as an excuse for the other.

'A civilian police force is expected to police neighbourhoods that are virtual war zones'

This sentence, whether intended or not, suggests that the police have an impossible job. And whether intended or not, it reads as making excuses for the bad egg cops.

Regarding the incident, why did none of the many other cops present at that incident shoot? Why did one cop feel the need to shoot a man 14 times, and re-load presumably to shoot some more, when none of the other cops felt threatened enough to fire a single shot?

[whitey]

What happened in Chicago makes no sense at all. The guy was not an immediate threat and could have easily been immobilized by a taser or some other non lethal weapon. None of the other 10+ cops who were there saw the need to open fire. If I were to guess I'd say that maybe it was a case of roid rage, combined with booze and the cop had become completely volatile (pure speculation on my behalf.  The stress these guys are under is off the charts and I'd guess he just cracked

Violent neighborhoods are policed more aggressively than low crime neighborhoods....that's just a fact of life and it happens the world over.  Given the prevalence of firearms in the big US cities, what would normally be routine calls...traffic stops, noise complaints, domestic disputes, public intoxication.....take on a whole different dynamic VERY QUICKLY.  What may be a minor encounter in a low crime neighborhood, can very quickly escalate into an all bloodbath in a high crime neighborhood.

Case in point:   http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/shot-playground-party-parade-35364110

In order for them to protect themselves and react quickly to very dangerous situations, their actions can seem heavy handed to the outside observer

[muppet]

I pretty much agree with all of that.

But it doesn't excuse the cop in Chicago. And some of the other incidents either. You can't have a police force where a small group of members skip the justice part and deliver the maximum sentence without any process. If the stress is too much for them, then quit. Or take them off the streets. Do something else. Lots of people have stressful jobs. But they are all expected to function to the required standard.

A tight-rope walker with vertigo is a danger to everyone below him, never mind himself.

[whitey]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

[muppet]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

The police did a great job there I thought. Very calm and professional. The idiots wanted to provoke a reaction and the cops were above that.

But you must realise there are many jobs that people have to confront whack-jobs from the general public on a regular basis. Go to A&E in any city on a Saturday night/Sunday morning in any city in Ireland and you will meet dickheads like those in the video above. Go to certain football games in the UK or Europe. Tag along with the fire brigade in Dublin when they are called to one of the really bad areas.

Tough jobs, but they don't have these instant executions by rogue cops.

[stew]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

The police did a great job there I thought. Very calm and professional. The idiots wanted to provoke a reaction and the cops were above that.

But you must realise there are many jobs that people have to confront whack-jobs from the general public on a regular basis. Go to A&E in any city on a Saturday night/Sunday morning in any city in Ireland and you will meet d**kheads like those in the video above. Go to certain football games in the UK or Europe. Tag along with the fire brigade in Dublin when they are called to one of the really bad areas.

Tough jobs, but they don't have these instant executions by rogue cops.

Rogue cops should be incarcerated, the vast majority are decent men and woman, very few are bad but they need to be rooted out today.

Black on black crime in Chicago is an absolute disgrace as is Jesse Jackson, marching against rogue cops is fine but why not host a march against black on black crime which is a much bigger area of concern?

[muppet]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

The police did a great job there I thought. Very calm and professional. The idiots wanted to provoke a reaction and the cops were above that.

But you must realise there are many jobs that people have to confront whack-jobs from the general public on a regular basis. Go to A&E in any city on a Saturday night/Sunday morning in any city in Ireland and you will meet d**kheads like those in the video above. Go to certain football games in the UK or Europe. Tag along with the fire brigade in Dublin when they are called to one of the really bad areas.

Tough jobs, but they don't have these instant executions by rogue cops.

Rogue cops should be incarcerated, the vast majority are decent men and woman, very few are bad but they need to be rooted out today.

Black on black crime in Chicago is an absolute disgrace as is Jesse Jackson, marching against rogue cops is fine but why not host a march against black on black crime which is a much bigger area of concern?

Ironically Jesse Jackson was one of the first black leaders to raise the issue of black on black crime. For that stand he took lots of grief from the black community.

Here is an article from 21 years ago: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-01-18/news/1994018198_1_black-on-black-crime-jesse-jackson-black-and-white

[gallsman]

Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

[muppet]

Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Disturbing.

Interesting to see that any race can be shot by police in that county. They aren't bothered.