Long Kesh Park takes another step forward

[SammyG]

I don't know how the IFA is constituted.
The IFA have offered as evidence to Poots that 13 of 15 senior clubs are supportive.
In general it is regarded that members run clubs, of course they need fans but its the members who take the decisions and who take responsibility for them.

Clearly! Quite honestly, the IFA is nowhere nearly so democratic or accountable an organisation as e.g. the GAA. Moreover, its Chief Executive (Wells) is currently being paid by the Government (DCAL), which explains why he personally is so keen on the Government plan for the Maze, contrary to the great majority of NI soccer fans. As for the "13 of 15" clubs (there are actually 16 senior clubs in the Premier Division, out of 40 senior clubs in all), their view are not especially relevant, since of the 5 or 6 contracted soccer matches for the Maze, only one (Irish Cup Final) actually involves those clubs, with another (Setanta Cup) occasionally possibly involving one. And both of these matches will be by far the least attended soccer matches. The majority of soccer matches, including all of the best attended, will be internationals. And the Amalgamation represents thousands of supporters of the NI international team.

Excellent response EG. Just a quick note on this specific point, the clubs were asked something along the lines of, 'If it can be shown to be in the best interests of NI football and no other option is available, will you support the Maze?' (I can't find the actual wording as I'm in work). Obviously the only sensible answer to that question is yes. This was then spun by Poots and co as 'clubs support the Maze', when in fact nobody had ever even asked that question.

[Donagh]

["See your previous posts"? Now you surely are having a laugh. Nowhere have you made any attempt to analyse the Amalgamation Report, never mind justify your assertion that it is "full" of "lies", "distortions", "irrelevances" etc. Instead, all you have done was initially to refer to one minor, passing reference by the Amalgamation to concerts at Croke in 2007, which has already been conceded by me as being misleading of them, before launching a tirade of abusive and diversionary posts.

At least Main Street, Saffron Sam and Lynchboy have made an effort to address the Report which you introduced. Then again, perhaps they did more than merely "glance through it"...

See my previous posts for response to the latest windbaggery. 

[Evil Genius]

["See your previous posts"? Now you surely are having a laugh. Nowhere have you made any attempt to analyse the Amalgamation Report, never mind justify your assertion that it is "full" of "lies", "distortions", "irrelevances" etc. Instead, all you have done was initially to refer to one minor, passing reference by the Amalgamation to concerts at Croke in 2007, which has already been conceded by me as being misleading of them, before launching a tirade of abusive and diversionary posts.

At least Main Street, Saffron Sam and Lynchboy have made an effort to address the Report which you introduced. Then again, perhaps they did more than merely "glance through it"...

See my previous posts for response to the latest windbaggery. 

Indulge me. Give me the Post #'s. Then we can all see whether they justify your cursory dismissal of the Report as "full" of "lies", distortions" and "irrelevance" etc

[Main Street]

Why on earth would the IFA exercise a veto over Belfast? Such a claim beggars belief. Whereas, with a stadium already in Belfast (Casement) and a the GAA "heartland" in Ulster being predominantly rural, western (including Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal), it is obvious why the GAA should reject Belfast in favour of the Maze.
At which point, since the Government was insisting that a stadium would only be built if all three sports agreed to share it, the IFA was in no position to object to anything and Ulster Rugby doesn't care (once it has got its Government grant for Ravenhill), this was handing the GAA a de facto veto, which they chose to exercise.
On which latter point, afaiaa, neither I nor any other OWC poster on this thread has blamed the GAA for preserving their own interests; quite the contrary, they are to be admired for the astute way they have played their hand. Rather, our gripe is with the Government, for dealing the cards from a loaded deck.

Creative writing based on what source?
The IFA are reported as saying in the PWC report 08/2005  that Belfast would be acceptable but exercised it's preference for the Maze site.
If according to OWC standards on this thread that exercising a preference for a location is the same as exercising a veto then the IFA exercised a veto

And, of course, since the way Stormont is set up, when one side gets some sweeties, the other side always has to get its equal share, I imagine there will also be provision to compensate GAA and Ulster Rugby.
In which case, the only question will be how many sweeties everyone will get.

No multi stadium = no sweeties.

[SammyG]

The IFA are reported as saying in the PWC report 08/2005  that Belfast would be acceptable but exercised it's preference for the Maze site.
If according to OWC standards on this thread that exercising a preference for a location is the same as exercising a veto then the IFA exercised a veto

Do you never get tired making up nonsense? The IFA and Ulster Rugby both said they were happy with any of the 3 proposed sites. The GAA said they would not support ANY Belfast site. How can anybody twist this to be the IFA exercising a veto?

[Donagh]

["See your previous posts"? Now you surely are having a laugh. Nowhere have you made any attempt to analyse the Amalgamation Report, never mind justify your assertion that it is "full" of "lies", "distortions", "irrelevances" etc. Instead, all you have done was initially to refer to one minor, passing reference by the Amalgamation to concerts at Croke in 2007, which has already been conceded by me as being misleading of them, before launching a tirade of abusive and diversionary posts.

At least Main Street, Saffron Sam and Lynchboy have made an effort to address the Report which you introduced. Then again, perhaps they did more than merely "glance through it"...

See my previous posts for response to the latest windbaggery. 

Indulge me. Give me the Post #'s. Then we can all see whether they justify your cursory dismissal of the Report as "full" of "lies", distortions" and "irrelevance" etc

Here, I'll reproduce it for you:

"What part of 'I don't give a fcuk about your sport, your stadium and your report' do you not understand? If I was to take more than my passing interest in soccer it certainly wouldn't be in a foreign team such as Northern Ireland which happily attracts all manner of neo-Nazi and loyalist scumbags to its games. I made a point about that bunch of ill-informed morons on OWC who are spinning lies about the GAA to sink the Long Kesh stadium – the GAA-Long Kesh stadium connection is as far as my interest goes – apart from laughing at the GAWA wannabe little Englanders."

[Evil Genius]

Why on earth would the IFA exercise a veto over Belfast? Such a claim beggars belief. Whereas, with a stadium already in Belfast (Casement) and a the GAA "heartland" in Ulster being predominantly rural, western (including Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal), it is obvious why the GAA should reject Belfast in favour of the Maze.
At which point, since the Government was insisting that a stadium would only be built if all three sports agreed to share it, the IFA was in no position to object to anything and Ulster Rugby doesn't care (once it has got its Government grant for Ravenhill), this was handing the GAA a de facto veto, which they chose to exercise.
On which latter point, afaiaa, neither I nor any other OWC poster on this thread has blamed the GAA for preserving their own interests; quite the contrary, they are to be admired for the astute way they have played their hand. Rather, our gripe is with the Government, for dealing the cards from a loaded deck.

Creative writing based on what source?
The IFA are reported as saying in the PWC report 08/2005  that Belfast would be acceptable but exercised it's preference for the Maze site.
If according to OWC standards on this thread that exercising a preference for a location is the same as exercising a veto then the IFA exercised a veto

Let's get this entirely clear. Are you seriously claiming that all other things being equal, the IFA would prefer a stadium out in the country over the city where they have played all of their internationals for 128 years (bar a few staged in Dublin prior to 1921)? The city where they have had their headquarters for those 128 years. Where their leading clubs are located? Where the bulk of the population, including the soccer-supporting population resides? The city which already has much of the necessary infrastructure to attract and accommodate fans (inc. away fans), over the site of a former airfiield and prison, on farmland nearly three miles from the nearest town? And most importantly, the city which the overwhelming majority of their fans, on whom they depend for revenue, have declared to be their No.1 choice? Please furnish me with the extract from the PWC Report where they claimed that.

As for the GAA, are you seriously suggesting that all other things being equal, they would not prefer a stadium nearer the geographical heartland of their support, over a stadium in a city which already has a medium-sized stadium in the West, moreover a city where GAA fans themselves have said many parts of which would not be attractive to them?

As for the difference between a "preference" and a "veto", I for one have never confused the two. It seems quite clear to me that the GAA was always going to prefer the Maze over a Belfast site, and were also in a position to hold out when neither soccer or rugby was. Consequently, in insisting any stadium be shared, the Government was effectively handing the GAA a veto, which they exercised. And fair play to them (GAA) for that.

And, of course, since the way Stormont is set up, when one side gets some sweeties, the other side always has to get its equal share, I imagine there will also be provision to compensate GAA and Ulster Rugby.
In which case, the only question will be how many sweeties everyone will get.

No multi stadium = no sweeties.

We'll see. But I would point out that by hypothesising what might happen should the Maze not get built, you've come quite some way from your previously confident prediction that the Maze would get built, despite the opposition form NI soccer fans. As I said earlier, I'm still not taking anything for granted until it's officially confirmed, but the tide seems to be turning!

[Evil Genius]

["See your previous posts"? Now you surely are having a laugh. Nowhere have you made any attempt to analyse the Amalgamation Report, never mind justify your assertion that it is "full" of "lies", "distortions", "irrelevances" etc. Instead, all you have done was initially to refer to one minor, passing reference by the Amalgamation to concerts at Croke in 2007, which has already been conceded by me as being misleading of them, before launching a tirade of abusive and diversionary posts.

At least Main Street, Saffron Sam and Lynchboy have made an effort to address the Report which you introduced. Then again, perhaps they did more than merely "glance through it"...

See my previous posts for response to the latest windbaggery. 

Indulge me. Give me the Post #'s. Then we can all see whether they justify your cursory dismissal of the Report as "full" of "lies", distortions" and "irrelevance" etc

Here, I'll reproduce it for you:

"What part of 'I don't give a fcuk about your sport, your stadium and your report' do you not understand? If I was to take more than my passing interest in soccer it certainly wouldn't be in a foreign team such as Northern Ireland which happily attracts all manner of neo-Nazi and loyalist scumbags to its games. I made a point about that bunch of ill-informed morons on OWC who are spinning lies about the GAA to sink the Long Kesh stadium – the GAA-Long Kesh stadium connection is as far as my interest goes – apart from laughing at the GAWA wannabe little Englanders."

How is that little rant in any way a rebuttal of the Amalgamation Report as being "full" of "lies", "distortions" and "irrelevances", as you previously claimed? That is, the Amalgamation of NI Soccer Supporters Report which you, despite not "giving a fcuk" about soccer, spotted whilst browsing an NI soccer supporters' site, and posted an extract on here for the rest of us to see?

You know, you seem determined to insult me with personal abuse, but sticks and stones and all that. In the meantime, I shall continue to enjoy the spectacle of you wriggling and squriming, ranting and raving, until it all ends with your head stuck firmly up your own rear! 

[Donagh]

["See your previous posts"? Now you surely are having a laugh. Nowhere have you made any attempt to analyse the Amalgamation Report, never mind justify your assertion that it is "full" of "lies", "distortions", "irrelevances" etc. Instead, all you have done was initially to refer to one minor, passing reference by the Amalgamation to concerts at Croke in 2007, which has already been conceded by me as being misleading of them, before launching a tirade of abusive and diversionary posts.

At least Main Street, Saffron Sam and Lynchboy have made an effort to address the Report which you introduced. Then again, perhaps they did more than merely "glance through it"...

See my previous posts for response to the latest windbaggery. 

Indulge me. Give me the Post #'s. Then we can all see whether they justify your cursory dismissal of the Report as "full" of "lies", distortions" and "irrelevance" etc

Here, I'll reproduce it for you:

"What part of 'I don't give a fcuk about your sport, your stadium and your report' do you not understand? If I was to take more than my passing interest in soccer it certainly wouldn't be in a foreign team such as Northern Ireland which happily attracts all manner of neo-Nazi and loyalist scumbags to its games. I made a point about that bunch of ill-informed morons on OWC who are spinning lies about the GAA to sink the Long Kesh stadium – the GAA-Long Kesh stadium connection is as far as my interest goes – apart from laughing at the GAWA wannabe little Englanders."

How is that little rant in any way a rebuttal of the Amalgamation Report as being "full" of "lies", "distortions" and "irrelevances", as you previously claimed? That is, the Amalgamation of NI Soccer Supporters Report which you, despite not "giving a fcuk" about soccer, spotted whilst browsing an NI soccer supporters' site, and posted an extract on here for the rest of us to see?

You know, you seem determined to insult me with personal abuse, but sticks and stones and all that. In the meantime, I shall continue to enjoy the spectacle of you wriggling and squriming, ranting and raving, until it all ends with your head stuck firmly up your own rear! 

I didn't say it was or is meant to be a rebuttal of anything. Simply my explanation of why I posted the point and why I have no interest in debating with windbags who still haven't gained the ability to pause for consideration before they spew all the muck that arrives in their little heads all over the keyboard. I've much better things to do.

[Evil Genius]

["See your previous posts"? Now you surely are having a laugh. Nowhere have you made any attempt to analyse the Amalgamation Report, never mind justify your assertion that it is "full" of "lies", "distortions", "irrelevances" etc. Instead, all you have done was initially to refer to one minor, passing reference by the Amalgamation to concerts at Croke in 2007, which has already been conceded by me as being misleading of them, before launching a tirade of abusive and diversionary posts.

At least Main Street, Saffron Sam and Lynchboy have made an effort to address the Report which you introduced. Then again, perhaps they did more than merely "glance through it"...

See my previous posts for response to the latest windbaggery. 

Indulge me. Give me the Post #'s. Then we can all see whether they justify your cursory dismissal of the Report as "full" of "lies", distortions" and "irrelevance" etc

Here, I'll reproduce it for you:

"What part of 'I don't give a fcuk about your sport, your stadium and your report' do you not understand? If I was to take more than my passing interest in soccer it certainly wouldn't be in a foreign team such as Northern Ireland which happily attracts all manner of neo-Nazi and loyalist scumbags to its games. I made a point about that bunch of ill-informed morons on OWC who are spinning lies about the GAA to sink the Long Kesh stadium – the GAA-Long Kesh stadium connection is as far as my interest goes – apart from laughing at the GAWA wannabe little Englanders."

How is that little rant in any way a rebuttal of the Amalgamation Report as being "full" of "lies", "distortions" and "irrelevances", as you previously claimed? That is, the Amalgamation of NI Soccer Supporters Report which you, despite not "giving a fcuk" about soccer, spotted whilst browsing an NI soccer supporters' site, and posted an extract on here for the rest of us to see?

You know, you seem determined to insult me with personal abuse, but sticks and stones and all that. In the meantime, I shall continue to enjoy the spectacle of you wriggling and squriming, ranting and raving, until it all ends with your head stuck firmly up your own rear! 

I didn't say it was or is meant to be a rebuttal of anything. Simply my explanation of why I posted the point and why I have no interest in debating with windbags who still haven't gained the ability to pause for consideration before they spew all the muck that arrives in their little heads all over the keyboard. I've much better things to do.

You claimed the Report was "full" of "lies", "distortions" and "irrelevances" etc, yet when asked several times to back up your claims, you have been utterly unable to do so. What's the problem, eh? Has the Fax link from Connolly House broken down? No access to the Party Line? Nothing in this week's "An Phoblacht" on the subject, for you to cut and paste?

I must say, I didn't think you'd have quite such difficulty when required to think for yourself...

[Donagh]

["See your previous posts"? Now you surely are having a laugh. Nowhere have you made any attempt to analyse the Amalgamation Report, never mind justify your assertion that it is "full" of "lies", "distortions", "irrelevances" etc. Instead, all you have done was initially to refer to one minor, passing reference by the Amalgamation to concerts at Croke in 2007, which has already been conceded by me as being misleading of them, before launching a tirade of abusive and diversionary posts.

At least Main Street, Saffron Sam and Lynchboy have made an effort to address the Report which you introduced. Then again, perhaps they did more than merely "glance through it"...

See my previous posts for response to the latest windbaggery. 

Indulge me. Give me the Post #'s. Then we can all see whether they justify your cursory dismissal of the Report as "full" of "lies", distortions" and "irrelevance" etc

Here, I'll reproduce it for you:

"What part of 'I don't give a fcuk about your sport, your stadium and your report' do you not understand? If I was to take more than my passing interest in soccer it certainly wouldn't be in a foreign team such as Northern Ireland which happily attracts all manner of neo-Nazi and loyalist scumbags to its games. I made a point about that bunch of ill-informed morons on OWC who are spinning lies about the GAA to sink the Long Kesh stadium – the GAA-Long Kesh stadium connection is as far as my interest goes – apart from laughing at the GAWA wannabe little Englanders."

How is that little rant in any way a rebuttal of the Amalgamation Report as being "full" of "lies", "distortions" and "irrelevances", as you previously claimed? That is, the Amalgamation of NI Soccer Supporters Report which you, despite not "giving a fcuk" about soccer, spotted whilst browsing an NI soccer supporters' site, and posted an extract on here for the rest of us to see?

You know, you seem determined to insult me with personal abuse, but sticks and stones and all that. In the meantime, I shall continue to enjoy the spectacle of you wriggling and squriming, ranting and raving, until it all ends with your head stuck firmly up your own rear! 

I didn't say it was or is meant to be a rebuttal of anything. Simply my explanation of why I posted the point and why I have no interest in debating with windbags who still haven't gained the ability to pause for consideration before they spew all the muck that arrives in their little heads all over the keyboard. I've much better things to do.

You claimed the Report was "full" of "lies", "distortions" and "irrelevances" etc, yet when asked several times to back up your claims, you have been utterly unable to do so. What's the problem, eh? Has the Fax link from Connolly House broken down? No access to the Party Line? Nothing in this week's "An Phoblacht" on the subject, for you to cut and paste?

I must say, I didn't think you'd have quite such difficulty when required to think for yourself...

Is this you making me squirm? Go get a job, windbag. Oh look I can use smileys as well  Sadly they don't really enhance the meaning of anything.

[lynchbhoy]

the Report was "full" of "lies", "distortions" and "irrelevances" etc,

if the report you are referring to above is the response to the PWC report - then you have to say that its almost too easy to dismiss all sections as lets face it, its hardly an unbiased article. It is a subjective piece that is written to outline potential failings of pwc's report , yet minimise the same failures/inadequecies of the counter arguments preferred choice.

if I was in their shoes, I'd do the same, but as it contains suggestion and hypothetical theory, there is no conclusive evidence to say either report is correct. You cannot fully predict an economic climate 5 - 10 years from now, just as you cannot predict how successful a soccer/gaa/rugby team will be in the same future period.

While you also cannot rubbish either report,you cannot say either is going to be correct.
for every piece of 'scientifically' garnered fact on economics , ergonomics and eco-ssytem - you will get a group to create as compelling a counter argument and series of stats.
Dismissing both reports or parts of - is quite easy.

I dont see any purpose in arguing over doing or not doing so.

a new stadium is in the lap of the Gov, if all parties are being catered for , they will push through funding - but it will be in lisburn, otherwise it will be nothing at all until NI IFA get a sugar daddy to build one for them - which could be a while..

[SammyG]

but it will be in lisburn

Interesting, is this a new option that hasn't been discussed before?

[T Fearon]

All the same, you'd have to wonder why Howard Smells, the Englishman entrusted with the running of th IFA, felt confident enough at the weekend to go on tv and confirm that all of North Eastern Ireland's home World Cup qualifiers will definitely be played at Windsor Park.

Does he know (or has he been told) something we don't? Is the Stadium of Hate to be simply upgraded  along with similar amounts of money given to the GAA and Rugby, meaning no new shared space stadium?

[lynchbhoy]

but it will be in lisburn

Interesting, is this a new option that hasn't been discussed before?

ok be pedantic
long kesh area (which is what I meant by lisburn)
the rest of what I said still stands

if the stadium there is not what the ifa are after, then you would be better pulling out and trying to raise the funding your own way, but I'd say you will be lcuky to get this done - rem how the Irish gov blocked the building of the FAI's 'eircom park' in tallaght...
this is along the same lines..adhere to the gov wishes , or be homeless ...not a great choice really.
the gov dont really give a fcuk (british or Irish)