Long Kesh Park takes another step forward

[snatter]

snatter

When you've finished riciting from the Sinn Fein handbook of quotes (have you got your own or did you borrow Donagh's?  ) is there any chance you could address any of the actual issues?

Deeply unpleasant comment even by your standards.
On what basis do you assume that I have any truck with Sinn Fein?

Is the mask slipping Sammy - I remember that was a common tactic back in the bad old days - if anybody upset unreconstructed old style unionists, they were always branded as Shinners, IRA sympathisers, etc.

I have posted reams of real points on here, ignoring a flurry of sniping and abusive remarks from yourelf et al.
I disagree with most of what Evil says, but credit where credit's due - Evil chooses to engage on some of the points raised.
That's what debate should be about - not petty abuse.

You on the other hand seem happier to obfuscate by ignoring points and  being abusive.

[snatter]

I must say that Poots really does sound like hes spoofing. Even other DUP men are having a pop. Sammy Wilson had a go at him yesterday. Personally as I have said on here before and been attacked I think the stadium should be in Ormeau Park and designed for Rugby and Football with a 25000 capacity. Some of the many millions saved could then be given to the GAA to develop Casement and a handful of new club pitches around Belfast which are badly needed. Casement can hold 30,000 which is sufficient for a GAA stadium in Belfast, club pitches are in very short supply. look at the chaos when the council decided to close Cherryvale in early August last year.

You What?
So when 20k soccers fans are all sitting on cosy seats with a roof over their heads, enjoying an uninterrupted view courtesy of the taxpayer, us bog dwellers are expected to huddle together in the rain on cold concrete terraces - Despite our annual attendance figures for big matches being 10 times those of soccer.

Get a grip. No more croppies lying down on this one mate.

Brilliant, totally ignore all the issues and go for the oul victim card. Pathetic.

And for the millionth time the Belfast stadium will not be funded with taxpayers money, but don't let the facts get in the way of your rant

The lack of equality and divergence from the mutually beneficial Shared Spaces strategy is the point, you prat.

And yet again, the gifting of public land to an exclusionist stadium IS INDIRECT PUBLIC FUNDING.

[stiffler]

Lads theres no point arguing with Samuel et al. Its quite obvious they want a new soccer stadium for norn iron, that does not involve sharing with the GAA full stop. 

They said that the stadium will be too big if they share with the GAA, then when the plans came out resolving this isssue they moved the goalposts and said that the 'atmosphere' at games would be greatly affected with the increased pitch size. Didnt seem to affect the Irish Rugby matches in Croke Park,mind you.

[SammyG]

The lack of equality and divergence from the mutually beneficial Shared Spaces strategy is the point, you prat.

What lack of equality and what mutually beneficial 'Shared Spaces' strategy? I think you need to try actually reading some of the details, there are NO PLANS for any shared use of the stadium, never have been and never will be. It was a Poots soundbite when he was trying to justify the Sands Museum and has since been dropped.

How can three sports that play at different times of year on a completely different pitch with different size grounds (at least according to you) possibly be a shared space?

How can giving into blackmail from the only sport that isn't cross-community be seen as promoting equality?

And getting back to the actual issues, how are you going to get round all the infrastructure issues?

[GweylTah]

I have to laugh at this Shared Futures and Shared Spaces waffle.

A big flop in the countyside where different codes might play the odd game but never at the same time or day and with different paraphernalia when they do.

It won't actually be shared at all.

How about teaching the kids at shared schools and preparing them for integrated living in mixed housing areas rather than expensive experiments that are actually meaningless.

I can't help thinking that, had NI soccer supporters enthusiasticlally embraced this idea, those here who purport to be big supporters of the Maze thing would have hated the idea, but because so many NI supporters appear to hate the idea, the zero-sum game of Shinner sheep is to cheer-lead for the Maze.

Still wouldn't wannna be a Lisburn 'City' rate-payer if it goes ahead, they'll be paying for it for a lifetime.

I'd also be interested to hear how honest those GAA fans who espouse 'sharing' and quote the Croke Park one-off as evidence of the GAA doing so, actually agreed with that GAA decision (bearing in mind no Northern county did) and whether they would support it being extended to all GAA grounds in Ireland, given that every ground other than Croke Park is still out of bounds to rugby and soccer.

[SammyG]

Lads theres no point arguing with Samuel et al. Its quite obvious they want a new soccer stadium for norn iron, that does not involve sharing with the GAA full stop. 

More lies. I have always said and continue to say that the stadium should be used by as many sports as possible.

They said that the stadium will be too big if they share with the GAA, then when the plans came out resolving this isssue they moved the goalposts and said that the 'atmosphere' at games would be greatly affected with the increased pitch size. Didnt seem to affect the Irish Rugby matches in Croke Park,mind you.

Absolute bollix. Have you actually read any of the discussions or do you just make it up as you go along? The issue with the Maze is lack of infrastructure, it doesn't matter if the capacity is 10K or 100K if you can't actually get to the bloody stadium.

p.s. when did plans come out to change the capacity?

[snatter]

I have to laugh at this Shared Futures and Shared Spaces waffle.

A big flop in the countyside where fifferent codes might play the odd game but never at the same time or day and with different paraphernalia when they do.

It won't actually be shared at all.

How about teaching the kids at shared schools and preparing them for integrated living in mixed housing areas rather than expensive experiments that are actually meaningless.

I can't help thinking that, had NI soccer supporters enthusiasticlally embraced this idea, those here who purport to be big supporters of the Maze thing would have hated the idea, but because so many NI supporters appear to hate the idea, the zero-sum game of Shinner sheep is to cheer-lead for the Maze.

Still wouldn't wannna be a Lisburn 'City' rate-payer if it goes ahead, they'll be paying for it for a lifetime.

For the record, the Shared Spaces strategy does indeed extend into schools.
Plans are well afoot to pool resources and enforce co-operation between all education sectors for the mutual benefit of all concerned.

Again,  deeply unpleasant to tar all those who wish to engage on much need debate as Shinners.

Crass.
Lazy.
Sectarian.

Is this becoming the new modus operandi of the OWC brigade?
Ignore all points, don't bother reading up on stuff and just label everybody else as Shinners?

[SammyG]

Ignore all points, don't bother reading up on stuff and just label everybody else as Shinners?

This from the man who has refused to address a single issue, you couldn't make it up.

[snatter]

Gwaytah,

I can't help thinking that, had NI soccer supporters enthusiasticlally embraced this idea, those here who purport to be big supporters of the Maze thing would have hated the idea, but because so many NI supporters appear to hate the idea, the zero-sum game of Shinner sheep is to cheer-lead for the Maze.

Not so - you won't find many GAA fans passionately in favour of the Maze.
Rather most simply see it as preferable to any Belfast site mooted so far.
Commonly cited grounds are that
1. its perceived as neutral
2. its easier to drive to as it avoids having to drive into Belfast.

We're not emotionally attached to it or anything - I'm sure if somebody had identified an alternative equally neutral location in an accessible location, it would have been considered.

[stiffler]

Lads theres no point arguing with Samuel et al. Its quite obvious they want a new soccer stadium for norn iron, that does not involve sharing with the GAA full stop. 

More lies. I have always said and continue to say that the stadium should be used by as many sports as possible.

They said that the stadium will be too big if they share with the GAA, then when the plans came out resolving this isssue they moved the goalposts and said that the 'atmosphere' at games would be greatly affected with the increased pitch size. Didnt seem to affect the Irish Rugby matches in Croke Park,mind you.

Absolute bollix. Have you actually read any of the discussions or do you just make it up as you go along? The issue with the Maze is lack of infrastructure, it doesn't matter if the capacity is 10K or 100K if you can't actually get to the bloody stadium.

p.s. when did plans come out to change the capacity?

The initial plans where for a 35000 seater then due to the GAA requiring a Stadium over 40,000 to make the project viable there was a change to the design to accomodate standing which can be replaced by seating for the soccer games.

[snatter]

Ignore all points, don't bother reading up on stuff and just label everybody else as Shinners?

This from the man who has refused to address a single issue, you couldn't make it up.

OK then, go off and list all issues that I have allegedly not addressed.
I'd bet my arse that I've replied to each and every one already.

You on the other hand have replied to relatively few and have consistently turned to slur the questioner rather than answer the question.

[SammyG]

Lads theres no point arguing with Samuel et al. Its quite obvious they want a new soccer stadium for norn iron, that does not involve sharing with the GAA full stop. 

More lies. I have always said and continue to say that the stadium should be used by as many sports as possible.

They said that the stadium will be too big if they share with the GAA, then when the plans came out resolving this isssue they moved the goalposts and said that the 'atmosphere' at games would be greatly affected with the increased pitch size. Didnt seem to affect the Irish Rugby matches in Croke Park,mind you.

Absolute bollix. Have you actually read any of the discussions or do you just make it up as you go along? The issue with the Maze is lack of infrastructure, it doesn't matter if the capacity is 10K or 100K if you can't actually get to the bloody stadium.

p.s. when did plans come out to change the capacity?

The initial plans where for a 35000 seater then due to the GAA requiring a Stadium over 40,000 to make the project viable there was a change to the design to accomodate standing which can be replaced by seating for the soccer games.

You're getting confused between press releases and plans. There was a Poots press release were he talked about variable capacity but there have been absolutely no details of how this can work or how much it will cost.

[snatter]

Lads theres no point arguing with Samuel et al. Its quite obvious they want a new soccer stadium for norn iron, that does not involve sharing with the GAA full stop. 

More lies. I have always said and continue to say that the stadium should be used by as many sports as possible.

They said that the stadium will be too big if they share with the GAA, then when the plans came out resolving this isssue they moved the goalposts and said that the 'atmosphere' at games would be greatly affected with the increased pitch size. Didnt seem to affect the Irish Rugby matches in Croke Park,mind you.

Absolute bollix. Have you actually read any of the discussions or do you just make it up as you go along? The issue with the Maze is lack of infrastructure, it doesn't matter if the capacity is 10K or 100K if you can't actually get to the bloody stadium.

p.s. when did plans come out to change the capacity?

The initial plans where for a 35000 seater then due to the GAA requiring a Stadium over 40,000 to make the project viable there was a change to the design to accomodate standing which can be replaced by seating for the soccer games.

stiffler,

don't waste your energy. We've been her before over several months.
Forget everything you've ever read about a variable 35k / 42k capacity.

In Sammy's world its all a plot by journalists, shinners,  commies, etc.
Don't show him any new reports, articles, academic reports that say otherwise.

You're wasting your time.
Sammy's stock response is that he personally hasn't seen the document, which in Sammy's world means it doesn't exist.
Couldn't possibly, because that might mean that Sammy is wrong.

[SammyG]

OK then, go off and list all issues that I have allegedly not addressed.

Right off the top of my head

How will the changaable capacity work?
How many people per hour can get down the single track road to the Maze and how much will it cost to upgrade it? Is this figure included in the £115 million or is it extra money?
Where will the extra trains come from and who's going to pay for them?
Where will the extra buses come from and who's going to pay for them?
Where will the fans eat, drink and stay?
How many private developers have come forward to support the Maze development?
Why is the Maze seen as neutral, even though it is in a staunchly Loyalist area but the three Belfast sites are seen as not neutral even though they are all in either mixed or Nationalist areas?


There's a few hundred more but it's late and I can't be arsed so that'll do for now.

[snatter]

SammyG,

What lack of equality and what mutually beneficial 'Shared Spaces' strategy?

Says it all really.
You spout on here, fabricating to your heart's content, and quite plainly don't even know the basics of the Govt strategy on which the Maze proposal is based.
Breathtaking ignorace and arrogance in one.

Why don't you navigate away from here for a day or two and go do some much needed reading.